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 No.204797

I kept wondering how come I have these frequent moments where I feel like I woke up from a slumber and wonder how I could have let myself go so badly. Then I get the motivation to improve myself but soon I go back to my routine until the next "wake up" moment in a few months. How come all this time in all these years I didn't manage to improve my life even a bit? It has been like 9 years by now. More than enough time to improve yourself. It's quite shocking.

But now I realize why. Because I just don't have the discomfort tolerance for any kind of change. With some motivation I might start exercising but then comes a day where I just feel like I have no strength to go out so I stop the exercises for a day. Then for the next day. And the next. And quickly I forgot I've been exercising at all and go back to doing nothing. And same thing happens with any positive change I try to start like eating healthy, learning a language, reading, not spending so much time online…

Do I just need to keep at it? People keep saying that it gets easier but I haven't made this experience. Or do I just accept that this is who I am? A weak willed spineless worm?

 No.204803

>Or do I just accept that this is who I am? A weak willed spineless worm?
Pretty much although you should do it not to give up but know where you're at to make progress. You can't start building something such as a will when you can't see or acknowledge where you're at or capable of as of right now. Where the ground is so to speak. Any progress you'd do in the mean time would be like trying to form something in the air and not on a stable surface hence why you haven't been able to hold on to anything these 9 years.

 No.204811

>>204803
>You can't start building something such as a will when you can't see or acknowledge where you're at or capable of as of right now

Well where I am right now is almost the ground.

But I don't know how I am supposed to improve if things don't get easier. When you go to the gym to lift weights after a while the weights start to feel lighter so you can start lifting heavier weights.

 No.204812

OP i've been working out consistently for a couple years now. yes, i've gotten stronger, am i better off now than i was 5 years ago, probably not. i'd say it wasn't really worth it, but i'm not going to stop because working out is more of something i do out of habit than for health/self-improvement reasons.
the point being is that i've "improved" physically, but who fucking gives a shit? certainly i don't, and i'm the only person that would have to begin with. so you can try to improve yourself, but the benefits are one-dimensional and don't mean shit. i can squat three plates and nothing in my life has changed. achievements and self-improvement are meaningless in a vacuum

 No.204814

>>204797
Depends on what you want, sometimes it's just out of your reach no matter what due to your circumstances. With what your talking about though with exercise it's all about getting into a routine that just pushes your physical limits but doesn't do so to the point of injuring you (which recently I actually did go to far but sometimes that's what you gotta do to find where your at in that area).
A lot of my improvement in my own personal life was the result of a lot of mini awakenings and a lot of trial and error. I did a lot of things and some stuck while others faded away, some sooner than others. Ultimately I keep in mind that in the end it all does anyways so don't get too attached even though that's harder said than done especially if your like me where that routine is all you have or everything would fall apart. It's just what works for the moment but maybe it won't tomorrow and I'll need to find another way. And there lies the problem, I'm hitting the biological and financial brick walls of what I can do.

 No.204854

Your idea that it's just about 'discomfort' is too low resolution. The feeling that stops you in your tracks and breaks your routine is indeed uncomfortable but you aren't yet aware of its full range of meaning. Dealing with your emotions requires a bit of detective work and this might be like the part of the show where they say "enhance" and focus on a tiny detail to reveal some key insight.

On those days when you 'lose all your strength', you should focus on the particular conditions which bring it about. This 'discomfort' is so much more than just that, it's not simply the pain of exercise, it's an emotional reality which makes you shut down. Take a moment to observe your thoughts, feelings and somatic sensations, then try to understand what is really causing them, which particulars of the situation are producing them in order to bring the emotions to full resolution. Once you do that, you'll go from this idea of not being able to tolerate vague 'discomfort' to a complex emotional reality which is the real barrier.

 No.204865

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>>204812

This has been my experience with exercise as well. Like yourself, I keep doing it out of habit, but, in the end, it's an utterly worthless gesture devoid any of meaning or worth, even to myself. Be that as it may, I try not to focus on all that too much, otherwise I really would stop. Although, again, it really wouldn't matter either way, beyond not really wanting to let my body atrophy to the point I pull a muscle every time I go to reach for something. Stretching on a semi-regular basis would probably be enough to combat that however, so that's just one less reason for me to exercise, I guess. I'm amazed I've gotten as far as I have with it, frankly (almost 2 years now). Never knew I had it in me, despite how little good it's actually done me, beyond improving my physical health which, personally speaking, I mostly see as nothing worth celebrating.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if I give up soon, since the malignant uselessness of it all is becoming too hard to ignore and I'd rather just lay on the couch staring off into space, plagued with thoughts of self-hatred & despair as I so usually am, while also fantasizing about the sweet release of death & suicide.

>so you can try to improve yourself, but the benefits are one-dimensional and don't mean shit.


>achievements and self-improvement are meaningless in a vacuum


This is especially true to a staggeringly large degree if you also happen to be a hikikomori, like myself. My existence is nothing, but an empty vacuum, which makes ideas like self-improvement, even when I can manage to accomplish some semblance of it, nothing more than a stupid, painful joke. But, oh well. Who cares.

 No.204866

>>204865
Do you get some feeling of accomplishment from it, though? That matters more than the acceptance of random normgroids

 No.204876

>>204866
Not really, it's more of a damage control
>I don't want to exercise
>But if I won't, I'll feel worse down the road.
It's kind of like a religion. You doubt it, but it's hard to just downright say it's all bullshit and you're an atheist starting today. It's obviously a big leap on a slippery slope that you don't want to take, so you go there and you pump iron.

 No.204878

>>204812
Same deal here, I probably maxxed out at what I can do "lazy natty" by which I mean, not dedicating my every waking hour to fitness, calories, protein, foam-rolling and stretching. I treat gym as a necessary evil.

 No.204880

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>>204812
>>204865
>>204878
OP here. I didn't want to derail this thread into a discussion on exercise. Either way the point in exercise for me is not looks or strength but health. There are countless studies that found exercise to be benefitial in many ways: improve your well being, improve your memory, make you think better, reduce the chance of illness… even without studies it's just common sense that exercise would be good for you. Even if it doesn't cure your depression it's still benefitial and certainly can't hurt.

 No.204882

>>204880
wait, exercise increases IQ? What?

 No.204883

>>204882
IQ isn't a static thing. If say you get a head injury chances are you might lower your overall IQ and if you're healthy and exercise you can perform better mentally thus increase your overall IQ. It won't increase infinitely tho it's still limited to genes etc

 No.204884

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>>204880
>mfw it's been the exact opposite for me
>increased stress and anxiety
>contributs to my depression
>my IQ went down the shitter past these couple years
>mood hits an all time low every other week

 No.204885

>>204884
Why do you continue exercising then?

 No.204886

>>204884
Maybe something's not right with your thyroid?

https://www.verywellhealth.com/thyroid-disease-in-men-3886166

 No.204887

File: 1564672615852.gif (1.68 MB, 480x320, 3:2, homer exercise.gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>204884
Are you exercising right?

 No.204888

>>204885
>>204886
>>204887
I probably shouldn't have ignored cardio completely. I'm a shut-in, so I guess even exercise can't help if I don't see sunlight or breathe fresh air days at a time.

 No.204913

>>204880
why would you want to be healthy?

 No.204915

>>204913
>why would you want to be happy?

 No.204930

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>>204913
Not everyone finds enjoyment from eating junk food while watching tv or otherwise living a hedinistic lifestyle.

Nothing wrong with either being a health nut or being "lazy," IMO. I go for a lot of walks, but I'm far fom a hardcore gym nut. I can see the appeal of going full on health freak, but it isn't for me

>>204876
Fair enough. I guess you're getting piece of mind from preventing your body from degrading. Whatever works for you, man.

 No.204931

>>204913
why are there so many fitness threads on wizchan anyway?

 No.204937

>>204931
crabs that's why

 No.204945

>>204913
I don't get who makes these posts. Is it a troll who visits this site between shitposting on 4chan?

>>204931
Because exercise has shown to improve well being. Fitness doesn't mean you have to lift weights. You could also jog or swim or hike or climb mountains or whatever. I am annoyed anyways how this thread got derailed on talking about this aspect alone.

 No.204947

>>204915
being physically healthy isn't the same thing as being happy. plenty of horribly obese people are happy.

 No.204948

>>204945
you're posting on /dep/. the general assumption is that nobody here likes their lives and being healthy would only prolong that. better question is, why are you here?

 No.204953

25 and I've done pretty much every self improvement meme under the sun for the past 7 years. what I've gleamed from that time is that the best approach is to just do small simple things daily that make your quality of life higher, yet don't stress you out even more by worrying about doing anything extreme. the biggest problem with self improvement is how much it promises or what grand vision you have in your head about how you're going to be if you just do this list of things. I remember I first started lifting at 19. I was fully under the impression that in a few months I would be a chiselled Chad and my entire life would turn around. you start basing your entire life around this idea. and when it slowly starts setting in that it's not going to happen you become extremely despondent with everything and in turn actually forget all the things that you could potentially be good at, all your genuine hobbies etc.
The trick is a moderate approach. saying to yourself "nothing will ever get better" will lead you to shit like all night amphetamine fap binges which will quite obviously cause massive detriments to your life.
out of all the things I've tried the things that have slightly improved my life in some genuine manner have been extremely simple things. go to bed before midnight. take very basic vitamins like magnesium, vitamin d and fish oil daily. get some sunlight. do 20 minutes of exercise a day and don't overdo it because it can become addictive. try to read or research some kind of interesting topic. find a hobby that you genuinely love and feels right and isn't just passively watching youtube or movies etc but something you can actually dig your entire being into and be malleable with the world.

 No.204954

>>204953
>the best approach is to just do small simple things daily

That seems to be the consensus with self-improvement but it gets harder to do as I get older and feel like I need to improve faster to catch up.

 No.204956

On the flip side. I ran for years on the self improvement hamster wheel without my life ever actually improving in the ways I wanted it to.

 No.205623

>>204854
not op but thanks wiz that's some good advise

 No.205625

>>204954
>tfw I never even mastered doing the basics like brushing my teeth and showering on a regular schedule, let alone exercise or practice of a skill

 No.205708

>How come all this time in all these years I didn't manage to improve my life even a bit?
Do you know why?
Because most people who are successful in life, are successful because of luck mostly. They were at the right time at the right place, knew the right people and bam. Of course they would never admit that and will always claim how
>hard I was working for x years
yeah just like everyone else too
>or how dedicated they were to success
yeah just like everyone else

Remember that james bond goldeneye movie? Trevelian was right. Luck is 50% of everything. The other half being faith.

 No.205734

>>205708
Just to expand on this. When you say this to the lucky people they often laugh at you and claim they did work hard. Which is true. What differs are the results that they got for their hard work.

Starting with nothing, no safety net and working your ass off you will NEVER catch up with them. You will just work hard but the people who had better luck in their dice roll will always be ahead. By far.

How do I know this? I was stupid enough to listen to their "advice". I worked hard. Learned a skill that is profitable (programming). I can speak 5 foreign languages at a decent level because I spend between 20 and 30 hours every week studying grammar, listening, reading, drilling vocabulary. That is beside a full time job. But that asshole who is tall, has money to start with from his parents? He will always be ahead.

I know that saying I worked hard might actually get me banned here. And I'm fine with that. I just wanted to offer you others some perspective on the whole "just work hard and you will see the results!" bollocks. Though if you don't believe me, try for yourself. Or not. Up to you.

 No.205750

>>205734
>When you say this to the lucky people they often laugh at you and claim they did work hard
Of course, some work is part of the deal
but work is always the smallest component. Knowing the right people and having luck (being at the right place at the right time with the right idea) is far more important

>hard work? why, I will just hire some faggot to do it for me

le entrepreneur of today

>the wageslave works 20 years and on his savings account there are measly 50'000$

>the speculator invested in bitcoin in year 2010 and is filthy rich after only a few years
this is the contrast you have. The speculator will always claim how hard he worked analysing the markets blah blah. He just had luck with the right gamble. Basically casino or lottery

 No.205751

>>205734
Nice post. Another aspect of this is survivorship bias. When you look at a sample of successful people you only see the ones who succeeded! But there are other people who started doing whatever they did contemporaneously, who might have worked as hard but never got anywhere because they aren't lucky or whatever. You don't hear about them, you only hear about the ones for whom everything went right, or never went wrong enough that they fell behind.

 No.205753

>>205751
This tbh
you will always read about bill gates, zuckerberg and stevie jobs but you will never hear the thousands of thousands of other entrepreneurs who tried it as well but never made it.

society only sees what it wants to see

 No.205775

>>205750
Oh absolutely! I always like to say that hard work is necessary but not sufficient. You might disagree but there is always a tiny bit of hard work involved somewhere down the road. I mean, otherwise there would be nothing to falsely attribute the success to.

>>205751
That is also true. It really is a weird situation for me personally. As I said before, I have fallen for the hard work meme and at this point I'm neither here nor there. For the successful ones, I loathe them and they loathe me. Or rather they would if I spoke frankly. They would loathe me because I do not participate in their fallacy of the just world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

I simply can not say "oh yeah, I worked for my moderate success" because how could I? I have good memory, I can understand things rather quickly and this has nothing to do with hard work. I just got lucky to get born moderately intelligent.

On the other hand, what about wizards? I consider myself a wizard (level 27) and obviously if we go just by the virginity definition I am a wizard. But I am not a NEET, I worked hard, improved myself. Earn decent money. One might call me a failed normie (though I don't like that term). What is the difference anyways? In my opinion it boils down to whether you accept the just world fallacy or not. A failed normie will still believe in the hard work meme and if the failed normie managed to unfail himself somehow he will immediately do a 180 and claim it was all hard work and nothing else. This in my opinion is what separates a failed normie from a non-NEET wizard. The pompous ignorance of any external factors and at the same time the pompous glorification of hard work (no matter the amount) put into something.

What is your take on this?

 No.205819

>>205734
>le hard work vs born with luck meme
This is teenagers identity crisis shit. Success is caused by myriad factors. There are people who worked hard and doesn't succeed. There are people who worked hard and succeed. There is a one in a million prodigy who failed because he didn't work hard and there is one who succeed without doing anything. 7 billion individuals on earth means 7 billion different permutations of one's life circumstances. Only stupid kids and adults in denial actually believe the work hard is an absolute key to success like the creator of universe just decided one day to make it the unwritten rule of the cosmos out of nowhere. The point of hard work is to achieve high productivity. It's supposed to improve your situation to be better than before and it has worked wonders in your case since you now possess skills that provide you with higher socioeconomic status than if you had not work hard. It may not have allowed you to surpass some people but it certainly had given you much better chance at doing so. The world has always been absurd and uncertain. Beliefs like if you just do a certain thing then the world will respond in a predictable way is bullshit. Just work hard and you'll succeed. Just be a good person and good things will happen to you. Just pray to God and he'll do things for you. Bunch of unscientific superstition. You tried to optimize your chance at getting what you want and you failed because the probability isn't 100%. A pitiful result but that doesn't make your approach wrong. But if you want to keep crying about how your success in life is merely "moderate" then go ahead. Fucking failed normie.

 No.205936

File: 1566230832580.jpg (50.15 KB, 380x380, 1:1, 1451997483174.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

Why do I masturbate and browse imageboard instead of programming?

 No.205941

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>>205936
Because you're not autistic and you have basic human needs that aren't satisfied by tinkering with abstractions all day. As bad as you think these things are for you, pornography and anonymous trashbins give you some semblance of intimacy and community feeling that every human years for. You can't just give those up without a sufficient replacement.

 No.205944

>>205941
>>205936
This is why automation is the future. Fuck you fleshbags either work hard or don't at all. Can't wait for code to be able to write itself.

 No.205945

>>205944

Are you angry that people aren't robots because you feel that you deserve, however tangentially, the output of their effort? Is it because people let you down by being lazy?

Why do you think that code writing itself would include or consider your needs, or even consider you at all? Would that really be efficient?

 No.205947

>>205819
I wonder if you even read my post. If you did, you sure did not understand it.

>Only stupid kids and adults in denial actually believe the work hard is an absolute key to success like the creator of universe just decided one day to make it the unwritten rule of the cosmos out of nowhere.

Yeah I agree with you. That's not what my post was about. My post was about people CLAIMING their success is attributable to their hard work when in fact there were powerful external factors present. And these people know damn well how it really is. But they lie and pretend to humiliate and shit on the ones underneath.

>But if you want to keep crying about how your success in life is merely "moderate" then go ahead.

What I was "crying" about is that if I take the ones who have above-moderate success for many people the main difference between me and them will be that I did not work as hard as them. Which might (or might not) be the case. Regardless, you will be seen as less competent and of lower quality.

And it works even for the neet wizards too, you just need scale it down a bit.

 No.205948

>>205944
Don't forget to drop your coding jobs and delete your experience from your resume before programming is the only job left and you are forced to work to your death to pay the rest of the world nocoderbux.

 No.205949

>>205947
My point still stands. You are a self pitying faggot who can't accept other people have better life than you despite many don't. Oh no I worked hard and can speak 5 languages when other people who work as hard as me would be able to speak 50. I'd find it acceptable if you're complaining about not being able to find a job or cure a mental illness but you're complaining about not having enough of something. Does the hard work you did give you a long lasting mental damage or something? Your productivity history is in the past. You have a whole future where you are equipped with programming and foreign language skills. How tragic.

 No.205950

>>205949

Classic crab mentality.

My life fucking sucks and I want yours to be worse so I feel better about mine.

 No.205951

>>205950
Classic failed normie mentality.

My life is not as great as I hope it would be so I'll pretend it is by complaining about it to people with worse life.

 No.205952

>>205949
I suspect you really are quite stupid.

Unable to see the general principle at work. There is nothing I can tell you. What is there to reply to? If I take your post, remove the insults and the anecdotal evidence that only applies to one case (mine). There is nothing. Nothing left. Think about it.

 No.205953

>>205952
Yeah the great sublime principle that people claim their success are due to their luck that only other genius like you can realize. What a fucking failed normie. You worked hard, failed, then think you have achieved some deep insight into how the world works, then you come to this site to share it to other people so they can marvel at your brilliance and life experience. But someone insulted you and you can't take it. So you write this post dismissing him as stupid. You are quite similar to the people you envied you know. Maybe that means you can be successful like them too!

 No.205954

>>205953
>You worked hard, failed, then think you have achieved some deep insight into how the world works, then you come to this site to share it to other people so they can marvel at your brilliance and life experience.
Not really, no. The thing is, lots of the self-improvement junkies always have the same lines. "Oh you think hard work doesn't work? Have you tried? No?! Then shut the fuck up!".

And quite often this is where the discussion ends. The lesson taken here is that wizards, losers, neets, whatever don't want to work hard and that's what makes them what they are. Hence they are at fault. Hence they are to be ridiculed, insulted and generally it's all their fucking fault.

Well I came here to provide a counter-example.

>But someone insulted you and you can't take it.

What makes you think I can not take it?

 No.205955

I've done several things related to improvement (exercise, programming, and language learning) for years but if you were to ask me if I felt any different than I did years ago when I was a weak teenager severely addicted to multiplayer video games the answer would be 'no'. I made goals for myself and working towards them was enjoyable at first, because they opened up a whole landscape of novel things (untranslated material, ability to customize computers, etc) but as time went on the 'high' I got from these things and the novelty wore off. I don't get excited like I used to when finding new things to read or looking into new things to program. It's just become a kind of habit at this point.

I don't have advice for actually making the first steps to self-improvement or working towards goals, but what I would advise is that you don't place too much hope and expectations on them, thinking that once you've done something everything in your life is just going to be great and stay that way. Even if you could achieve all your goals tomorrow I think the happiness from that would wear off and you'd be back to looking for higher peaks to climb within the next few weeks.

Not saying that doing things to improve is a waste, of course; it's better than doing nothing or wallowing in self-pity. But just realize that you'll probably be struggling to maintain your feel-good levels for the rest of your life, and I don't know that there's a way out of that which isn't extreme.



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