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 No.209455

I feel like there are very few people who consider themselves inferior untermenschen. Even the people who bitch about how oppressed they are. They don't think they are innately inferior, they think just society and various forces unjustly treat them as inferior, when they are not. Even crabs seem to think they are superior in many ways, and its just females primitive attraction to archaic features that holds them down.

How many Calvinists believe they are one of the predestined to hell?

There has to be inferior people. Its implied in competition, inequality, hierarchy. Maybe people accept it, because even though there are superiors above them, theres always an inferior below them to shit on and that makes it worth it. I'm the Atlas holding up the whole world on my back, as the most inferior being. The 2nd most inferior man in the world can shit on me and feel a superior man.

Maybe as a NEET, hikki, wizard who has totally dropped out of and withdrawn from society and social interaction none of this should bother me. But even places like Wizchan will trigger me, in reminding me of who I'm that I exist as this person.

I feel like there is no way of dealing with being inferior. Everything you hear, will either try to convince you that you're not really inferior, or give you self-help self-improvement advice on how not to be inferior. We can't all be winners. Some have to be losers. And one has to be the biggest loser in the world. idk I guess suicide is the obvious answer. But its where my inferior character shows itself again. The cowardice, incompetence, klutziness, fear, laziness, sloth, complacency, passivity, hypocrisy all comes out. I'm too embarrassed to even walk into a gun store, without looking like a suspect. I worry about messing up any method involving arts and crafts. I'm so under the thumb of my parents, that its like a 10 year old trying suicide, and just being gone for 1 day will draw their attention. I put it off to tomorrow like every other project of my life.

 No.209459

>I feel like there is no way of dealing with being inferior.

It's not so much something to "deal" with but rather realizing than being inferior is only a weakness if you're a part of the competition. In some ways it's impossible not to be, so the only way to completely drop out is to be a hermit in the woods (and that would require skills). But other than than the bare essentials I've come to realize that as long as you can stay separate from others, being the even worst subhuman doesn't even matter.

 No.209473

You're doing good by "choosing" to withdraw from society and live a neet hikki life. Apart from that I have no advice to you, you're gonna suffer either way.

 No.209479

You probably are

 No.209480

>Everything you hear, will either try to convince you that you're not really inferior, or give you self-help self-improvement advice on how not to be inferior.
Is that really true though? What I mostly hear is everyone trying to convince me it's all my fault.

Ever heard someone "succesful" talk about their success? They will always mention their hard work, social skills, whatever. But they will never mention the things that were out of their control in which they got lucky.

Dealing with being inferior is not a big problem. Dealing with being inferior and being told it is all your fault you're not number one and that the difference between you and number one is hard work, determination but never good genes, good family (starting point) and generally luck? That I can not deal with. Hell I've heard people my age laugh at lazy losers who don't have their own place to live only to mention a couple minutes down the road how their parents bankrolled them and how they don't have to worry about not being able to pay off their mortgage since daddy would help them if things didn't go well.

These same people laugh at you for being lazy and consider themselves superior to you (which they are) ONLY THOUGH THEIR HARD WORK (which they are not). This can be applied to anything really, social skills (looks), dating market (looks), job market (intelligence, looks, family).

That's kinda my problem here. No matter how hard you work, bad luck and bad starting position will always fuck you in the ass, slow you down. You will spend time catching up to people who got born into upper middle class families and the same people will then be hailed as hard workers while you will be put down as lazybones.

This is exactly the reason why I don't take the usual bullshit about hard work seriously. It's just a red herring and it's absolutely not true that if we decided to change our lives we could all become successful human beings. Some of us might though. The ones who got lucky in their dice roll to begin with.

 No.209491

Father, in the name of Jesus, I repent on behalf of those in my family line who had sexual relations with evil spirits, familiar spirits, with incubus/succubus spirits, and the demon Mare. I renounce and break any covenants or dedications to the Nephilim, Baal, or Belial.

I repent for anyone in my family line who has had any connections, ties, pacts, or allegiances to the Harlot spirit and the Queen of Heaven. I repent for all who participated in any fertility rites or rituals, and who sacrificed, worshiped, danced before, or gave offerings to any gods or goddesses.

Lord, I repent for all those in my family line who had night or spirit husbands night or spirit wives. Lord, forgive us for rejecting You as our husband and forgive us for our unfaithfulness towards You. Forgive us for finding comfort from these spirits and for looking to them to fulfill our desires and needs. I choose to rely upon You and to trust in You for everything I need. Please restore my joy and faithfulness to Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom.

Lord, I repent of every contact, personal and generational, with all night-husbands and night-wives and I and renounce all night husbands and night wives which have been assigned to function specifically within my family. I repent of the blood covenants which opened the door to this family night-husband and night-wife. I cut every soul tie with this family spirit. I repent of the deception adopted by my ancestors that polygamy is acceptable and for any deception which was one of the ways in which the door was opened to incubus and succubus and mara.

I repent for those in my family line who were involved in astral travel, dark practices such as the occult, and new age practices. I repent for any involvement with witches, sorcerers, magistellus or familiar spirits. I renounce all night spells, charms, enchantments, or allurements used by witches at night. I renounce any positions, possessions, powers, or any secret knowledge that have come from darkness. Please close all ungodly pathways, gateways, portals, cracks, or seams into ungodly realms or the underworld. Remove all defilement and tainting, and as Your child, please restore my godly dreams from heavenly places.

I repent for any of my ancestors who have visited sangomas or witches for their “love witchcraft.” I repent on behalf of my ancestors for buying, accepting, and using their love potions. I repent for rituals performed, invocations offered up, and any using of baths, washes, charms and psychic prayers. I repent for having their body rubbed with ungodly ceremonial liquids or allowing ungodly ceremonial or commercial liquids to be poured over their body.

I repent for the marriages and the relationships that resulted from having relations with these spirits. I ask that you would break off from my family line all false love, lust, hatred, impotency, frigidity, sickness and disease that have been caused by these spirits.

I repent on behalf of my family line for all fornication, adultery, incest, orgies, sodomy, homosexuality, and sexual addiction. I repent for all pornography, rape, abuse, ungodly masturbation, lust and fantasy lust, and any ungodly sexual contact with other people, any bestiality, and all sexual perversion and sex for money.

I repent on behalf of myself and my family line for shedding innocent blood through abortion and human sacrifices. I repent of murder, pride, greed, rage, hate, jealousy, pretense, falseness, cursing, and lying.

Father, on behalf of my family line I repent of having been involved in acts that showed worship and obedience to Satan and his demons through having sexual relations outside of marriage. Lord, forgive us for not following Your commands.

In the Name of Jesus I renounce all ungodly soul ties with every normal I have been involved with, physically or spiritually. Father I ask You to break these soul ties from my spirit, my mind and my body. Break in Jesus Name. I now apply the Blood of Jesus Christ over all ungodly ties.

Father, I repent for allowing these evil spirits to reduce and control my will. I now choose to put my spirit, will, emotions, mind and body under the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Now in the name of Jesus Christ I renounce and demand that all evil represented by incubus, succubus, incubi, succubi, eldonna, mare and all evil connected to ungodly sexual behavior to come out of my body and my physical and spiritual conscious, subconscious and unconscious mind. I break off these spirits from my tongue, hands, fingers, chest or any part of my body.

I will no longer serve these demon spirits. I renounce Satan and all his works. I stand in the authority that I have as a believer, and in the name of Jesus I cast out any spirits that have been residing in my body.

I command all confusion to leave and I call back all parts that have been scattered or fragmented.

Father, please forgive me, wash me and cleanse me and I ask You to restore my innocence. Please increase my love for You and give me the ability to be truly faithful and intimate with You.

 No.209493

>How do I deal with being inferior

By just accepting the pain and realizing there's nowhere to go but up when you're down enough. Inferiority is actually subjective sometimes without putting yourself into someone "superior's" shoes.

I would say that's just my opinion but these guys seem to agree.

 No.209498

>>209493
>By just accepting the pain and realizing there's nowhere to go but up when you're down enough

There's no such thing as rock bottom. It can always get worse. There are always new depths of degradation for you to discover that you didn't know existed.

 No.209499

>>209491
What is this?

 No.209503

>being inferior
If you stop comparing yourself to others you won't feel inferior ever again. Might not stop you being inferior, but why would it matter then?
Also, deliberately getting depersonalization with derealization works wonder for self-esteem. That is, it makes it completely vanish(in a good way). Why would being inferior matter when "you" are not yourself and the world "you" live in is not real?

 No.209505

>>209503
Derealization… While it does sound like a pretty good deal and actually works wonders in the beginning it's a one way road. At some point you start to doubt whether things are real or not. You stop being sure whether you're daydreaming or living. It's difficult to distinguish between the two. Pain stops being real. Emotions slowly fade away. It's kind of like dying very slowly, except your body still works. For me anyways.

 No.209506

File: 1571512857642.jpg (174.27 KB, 850x650, 17:13, 1544038138508.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

The experience of feeling 'inferior' is just a constructed experience conditioned and learned through growing up in society. The only way to escape it is to deconstruct it by realizing it's your own self-constructed illusion and not caused by external reality. The idea of yourself as a 'loser' or 'inferior' is an abstract category which makes sense in the abstract structure of human hierarchies, but it is only real because it is embodied through your affect i.e. the joy vs shame triggered by the context of your perceived social status. You learned this emotional mechanism through experience in human factories of the education system, by interacting with your peers, learning to feel joy and shame when the environment signaled it to you.

If you react to it, you have already lost. You can try to give in to the feelings, you can try to fight them by gaining achievement, or you can dissociate by intoxicating yourself and fuzzing the context. The only way to truly escape is to deconstruct the experience, too see through it and dissolve it, thus making the context irrelevant. Abstractly, you are still 'inferior' and rightly considered so, but without it being paired with a punishing internal experience, it fails to register and continues being just a concept.

It's difficult to achieve, but it can be done through meditative practice, bumping into the powerful knowledge that you are the origin of most of your experiences, that the outside world often only acts a signal/context for you to create a particular state of mind. This isn't intellectual knowledge, it's experiential and can only be gained through the direct experience of that process.

 No.209507

>>209506
No such thing as a useless person LMFAO

 No.209509

>>209507
Learn to read. You really are useless :^)

 No.209524

>>209498
True, I mean everyone WANTS it to get worse than a point when they reached their limit on how bad it got, don't they? :D

 No.209545

>There has to be inferior people. Its implied in competition
right
the world is a poker table
what you win, another must lose

there can be no winners without losers
>The cowardice, incompetence, klutziness, fear, laziness, sloth, complacency, passivity, hypocrisy all comes out
I am same as you and I dont understand what I have lost on this planet in this competitive game that is life

 No.209559

>>209506
How do you know that? Only a therapist or an enlightened wizard would know that.

How did you realize that, at what age? Me at 24 through fucking up multiple times, like when you mentioned "through experience".

 No.209564

>>209509
No you learn to read. Reading is also a social construct btw so I know you also don't give a shit about it. Damn you're full of wisdom, the anime picture indicates it.

 No.209567

>>209545
Just to build on this. People will inevitably call you down with something like

>hurr, economy is not a zero-sum game tho, dumass


I never understood why people think that's relevant. You can have both a "non-zero-sum-game" and someone getting successful at the expense of others.

And obviously when you consider things other than money, like for example sexual partners the whole premise goes out of the window.

Just sayin'

 No.209569

File: 1571558277959.jpg (35.98 KB, 413x600, 413:600, 1571502689736.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>209564
You barely skimmed my post otherwise you'd understand that I didn't say the category of 'useless' people doesn't exist, simply that the internal experience of feeling 'inferior' is a constructed experience, meaning it's not caused by the outside world but internally constructed after being triggered by some contextual cue. We already know you can feel 'inferior' despite having achievements and that you can feel quite 'superior' even if you don't. The context i.e. your perception of reality serves only as a trigger for your brain to construct a particular experience and that depends on previous learning.

Also, almost everything IS a social construct, but because it is paired with a learned punishing/rewarding internal experience, it becomes real and tangible in our minds. Money is essentially just paper we agreed has value, but such intellectual knowledge still doesn't make the event of losing it or gaining it trivial or abstract. Merely realizing that social hierarchies and status are abstract things won't make them go away, most people already know they're just fluff but they can't help but experience these concepts due it being an automatic process. Nonetheless, it's possible to disrupt that process considering it's not anything hard-wired but like anything learned - just memory.

Also, anime pics are aesthetically pleasing and have no bearing on the strength of an argument. In this case actually, the anime pic is just a contextual cue to trigger you to construct the experience of butthurt :)

>>209559
When I say "through experience", I mean exactly that. Intellectual knowledge isn't enough because you will always trust raw experience over it. The thing that dissolves a constructed experience is the /experiential/ knowledge that you are constructing it, very vivid proof that the unwanted experience you thought was coming from the external world was really just an illusion. You can gain that knowledge through intense meditation.

The reason you fall for the illusion is because the process is: (a) automatic, (b) seemingly coming from a specific event (context). For instance, something bad happens and you feel 'sad', your perceive the contextual cue and this activates the memory of the experience of being 'sad'. Thus, you get the idea that the event caused your sad feelings and that you have no control over it. What people believe they have control over is the environment/context, so if something makes them sad/anxious/angry they avoid it or they try to change it. When you change the context, it no longer triggers the same constructed experience and you believe you have escaped it.

When you change something in the external world, you believe that it then causes various experiences in you, like getting a job promotion and then experiencing joy, pride and so on. The job promotion is entirely an abstract concept but it's a powerful contextual cue based on your learning, hence your brain constructs positive/negative experience. For a normal person, this would be a positive cue, but for someone like a wizard, this might be a negative cue. Based on the wizard's previous experience, getting more attention and responsibility is something they've learned is negative so the brain constructs negative experience.

You can actually consciously construct any emotion with some effort but it falls apart in moments because you already know that you are its creator - (a) and (b) are missing. The automatic nature of constructed experience can be explained by the fact that it acts exactly like a memory which gets triggered by specific contextual cues. For instance, a particular toy might remind you of a fond childhood memory automatically, but compared to an emotional memory, it's much harder to believe that it's real (b) and even if you do for a second, it won't cause actual noticeable physiological changes.

 No.209572

>>209506
I wouldn't say these mechanisms you describe are learned. I believe the reason why humans value them is because they are genetically wired to do so. And they exist to serve important biological functions. Escaping the nature of how your organism is programmed sounds like a difficult task to me.

 No.209573

File: 1571567274466.png (1.24 MB, 858x1015, 858:1015, 1562685019042.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>209572
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_constructed_emotion

Well, they're definitely not hard-wired or completely determined by genetics. Most humans will tend to develop these experiences in most societies and they're usually adaptive in nature. However, just because we can observe that we share many experiences (intersubjectivity), does not mean that they are hard-wired or constitute "human nature". There's still a lot of variance in how people experience even so-called "basic" emotions. Most people will cringe at the thought of stabbing another person, but certain people (like sociopaths/psychopaths) might actually find the experience neutral or even pleasurable.

A specific genetic markup, a specific environment make it more likely that someone will learn a particular constructed experience but none of those are barriers later in life for unlearning it. A gene doesn't cause the experience, it's only a factor that might lead you towards a particular learning path.

>And they exist to serve important biological functions.


Most of these experiences are adaptive in nature and have evolutionary reasons for developing in a certain way. However, I believe that humans should strive to evolve away from our animal nature and to surpass the limits of biology (we already do in many ways). It also just creates needless suffering.

>Escaping the nature of how your organism is programmed sounds like a difficult task to me.


It's difficult but not impossible. I believe it's the only worthy endeavor out there, considering everything else society tells us will make us happy is just non-sense. Things do not make you anything, they're just symbols and contextual cues for your mind to construct a particular experience based on learning. People strive to acquire these things and then become disillusioned because they do not create the experience as promised. It's quite hilarious when you think about it. Even the people in this thread are hilariously pathetic, so caught up in illusions and self-created suffering. The hard-working masochists will try to bend the world to their will so that it sends the right signal to them, the rest will merely give in.

 No.209574

>>209569
Seems like you don't understand your post at all. Muh social constructs aren't real because it's just is waaahh


Language is also isn't real, logic too. Seems like that compliment you got from /Wiz/ made you think your posts are valuable.

 No.209575

File: 1571570310862.png (384.01 KB, 671x1047, 671:1047, 1541336678093.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>209574
Y-you think my posts are v-valuable, anon? Gosh, I don't know what to say. Hey man, I like you too and stuff. I know you're not stupid and can't read, it's just your tough-guy persona that can't admit he's really enjoying a line of thought. See you around, I guess.

 No.209576

>>209575
Look my point is calling your feelings socially constructed is retarded. You coping is actually the social construction made by YOU

 No.209578

File: 1571580128897.jpg (28.66 KB, 480x480, 1:1, 1565512510734.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>209576
Fair enough, but you haven't provided any reasoning or addressed any of my points. I'll explain how my approach is different from 'coping'.

Coping generally refers to re-actively trying to deal with stress and inner conflict. For instance, in response to feeling 'inferior', you react with various behaviors that try to minimize it. There's three possible reactions to it (as I've already mentioned):
>(a) you can give in to the feeling and you align all your cognition with it which gets rid of the conflict i.e. you start shitting on yourself regularly
>(b) you can fight the feeling by compensating i.e. proving it wrong any way you can (gaining various achievements, skills etc.)
>(c) you can escape from it by avoiding the context which triggers it or psychologically dissociating through various means, including drugs, daydreaming, escapism etc.

All three are reactions, but (b) and (c) are active methods which try to manipulate the context either externally or internally. My approach is not reactionary since its aim is to deconstruct the experience entirely while keeping the context intact. Like I said, I fully accept the category of 'inferior' as valid, various hierarchies exist for a reason and they are arguably a net positive for society (despite causing a lot of suffering). However, the internal experience of being 'inferior' is completely unnecessary side-effect. In that sense, I am not coping with being 'inferior' because it doesn't cause a conflict in the first place. If I see that I am deficient in a specific area, I can decide if I want to invest time and energy in getting better, or if I just want to accept my status as 'inferior' in that realm. Both are perfectly reasonable options when you remove the troublesome constructed experience. It essentially makes you more rational considering you aren't doing things re-actively but actually reasoning through your actions and path in life.

 No.209579

>>209578
I didnt really responded to it because i just see it as cop out. Its a disgusting way to live.

 No.209580

>>209579
A 'cop out' is when you write a one liner response to a detailed argument. What's actually 'disgusting' is that despite being both illiterate and possibly lazy, you still have some high-ground bullshit moral perspective for which you provide no justification.

 No.209583

>>209580
"Detailed"(wordy nonsense) that sits on the premise of being a dishonest coward.

 No.209584

>>209583
So you're just admitting it went over your head? I guess it's not an accident you're in this thread…
When the inferiority feelings hit you, remember that at least you are not 'coping out' and fully accepting them instead of being a 'coward' :)

 No.209586

>>209584
>>209580
Wizchan is garbage

 No.209615

>>209586

It really is. Honestly can't be said enough, frankly.

 No.209660

>>209578
I think anon is refering to coping as in trying to create bullshit reasons to not want something that you actually do want. The classic fox and sour grapes would be an example of it. Op instinctually wants as most humans social status which would allow him a greater access to resources and pussy. Your solution is just to deconstruct the fee fee in order to limit or reduce his frustration with his current state, which is a coping mechanism. Though there is no objective reason why one shouldn't engage in copes, which are a normal part of human thinking (things like religion and philosophy are in most cases ways of coping with the idea of the inevitability of death).

 No.209662

File: 1571692446300.jpg (138.77 KB, 754x1024, 377:512, 1552047750758.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>209660
>I think anon is referring to coping as in trying to create bullshit reasons to not want something that you actually do want.

Yes, I understand that but I'm actually defining coping much more broadly than that. That's essentially (c) trying to manipulate the context i.e. the truth, the perception of reality, in an internal way in order to mitigate the frustration and 'fee fees'. You might think that 'compensating' is the way to actually deal with it, but it's just another cope, you're still just trying to minimize the negative emotion (albeit in an active, external way). That's how you end up with dudes buying sports cars or binging every night and hooking up with any willing whore in order to prove their 'fee fees' wrong. Lying to yourself about not wanting sex is pretty much the same as dedicating most of your time to getting laid and finding ways to trick succubi into sleeping with you, because you're ultimately just reacting to your feelings.

Cope exists only as a reaction to that negative emotion. If the fox didn't experience conflict, he wouldn't have to lie to himself about his desires, he could actually try to attain them or move on without a problem, being guided by his rationality and possible rewards instead of aiming to escape negative emotion. I'd say most crabs are more interested in getting rid of their inferiority feelings than their desire for sex. Obviously, jerking off or paying for it doesn't work for most of them because it's not about the sexual pleasure, it's about attaining the context of 'having sex', being 'a person that has sex', dissolving the identity of 'virgin', 'loser' etc. thus escaping their inferiority.

It's all fluff.

 No.209665

>>209575
So is this actually a tranny or another interloping succubus?

 No.209733

>knows what Calvinism is
>Can string multiple paragraphs together in a coherent thesis
>Subjects self to brutally honest introspection

You are a disenfranchised aristocrat of the soul forced to live in a world of cretins. In the ways that matter you are superior to 99%

 No.209739

I agree with the other wizards here saying to withdraw as much as possible. Why try if you know you can't succeed?

 No.211210

>>209662
I'd like to obtain some of your wisdom. Any reading recommendation for learning more?

 No.212300

i want to die

 No.212303

>>209662
Well put and you are absolutely correct, don't let the crabs here make you think otherwise. They still haven't fallen out of society.

 No.212304

File: 1576949027035.png (1.28 MB, 1130x800, 113:80, 1576855117611.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>211210
I thought about compiling a list of books I found to be valuable but I'm not able to organize them in an compelling or accessible order. My current thoughts and ideas are the result of a continuous digestion of multiple perspectives I've read and attempted to integrate together. I consume books similar to food, when I feel a pang of hunger and when my last meal no longer offers any sufficient nutrients. Often I just put in a relevant keyword into libgen and pick out what seems compelling. Other times I come back to certain books I remember when they become relevant in my current progression of thought.

If your aim is to stop feeling inferior, then by all means you should start with a fundamental distrust of your direct experience. It's not enough to question society and its structures, because they're ultimately just concepts that you yourself end up 'realizing' and 'embodying'. The source of most of your suffering is your mind and certain learned mechanisms that came about through your lived experience in society. Anything that can help you shed light on those hidden automatic mechanisms is something worth reading and thinking about. Not every perspective honors the individual and his freedom, but even such pessimistic and ultimately reductive philosophies often have value when integrated into a coherent "gestalt" with other perspectives.

It's always nice to re-read these rants and see how my ideas developed later, but I'd still stand by everything in this thread. I stand by the idea that 'inferiority' is something self-inflicted, albeit in an unconscious and implicit manner. You are compelled to feel like this because of your socialization, not because a lack of some abstract achievement(s) causes it. If you end up feeling bad, the causes are entirely inside you, in the structure of your knowledge, your memories, the way you construct meaning and perceive things and so on. The process of decoupling yourself from society and its structures requires an internal re-organization that can only come from self-knowledge. Not from a vain social identity, but from knowledge of the mechanisms and processes which constitute the self - only then will you have the tools needed to reverse engineer it. The trouble with that is mere descriptions of such processes aren't enough, one needs "experiential" knowledge that cannot be verbalized or transferred, only gained through direct experience.

 No.212310

File: 1576952605799.png (24.57 KB, 2000x426, 1000:213, Untitled.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>209578
>>209662
>>212304
I'm trying to get a better grasp of your ideas, so I made the following diagram. Would you say the following description is accurate?

My understanding is that what you're proposing is a distinction between the context, the objective state of inferiority in some hierarchy or social condition, and the experience of that inferiority, the internal feeling of inferiority that causes suffering. This psychological conflict and negative emotional state are generated by the socialization process, by "mechanisms and processes that constitute the self".

The most popular way of dealing with the experience of inferiority is through "coping", points (a), (b) and (c) in your initial post. These are all essentially reactions to the emotional state, trying to reduce or eliminate the experience.

(a) consists of aligning yourself with the experience of inferiority in an attempt to resolve the conflict, albeit in a negative way. In the context of failure in the sexual marketplace, this would explain the self-loathing of crabs as they attempt to tear each other down to better align with their inner concept of inferiority. The extreme hopelessness and defeatism of the "black pill" could be seen as a way to reinforce and prevent themselves from escaping the feelings of inferiority.

(b) consists of fighting the experience of inferiority through active means, by trying to change the context. You gave the example of the guy buying sports cars and whatnot, but arguably the "red pill" philosophy would fall in this bracket as well.

(c) is the other side of the coin of (b). Instead of changing the context, you attempt to avoid it entirely, but you still haven't dealt with the process of how the experience is created from the context, and when the context re-emerges, so does the experience of inferiority.

The problem is not so much the context as the experience, and the way the experience is created is through "the structure of your knowledge, your memories, the way you construct meaning and perceive things and so on" (step C in the diagram). What you're proposing is an "internal re-organization" at the level of C to prevent the experience of inferiority from manifesting, but not necessarily challenging the context. Does this sound about right?

 No.212317

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>>212310
>Does this sound about right?

Actually, yeah. You've understood it quite well and you've also noticed I didn't offer a solution or direct causal explanation of how such phenomenon occur. It's because I'm not there yet, but my aim is to either figure that out or at least create a practical psychotechnology, a meta-cognitive tool that would allow one to deal with said phenomenon, not simply 'inferiority' but the entire spectrum of emotion and other internal experiences.

The experience of 'inferiority' isn't directly caused by the outside world, unlike a needle piercing the skin which is entirely dependent on physical processes. It seems to be constructed by the organism adaptively depending on the state of its internal structure that is shaped by previous experience. This internal structure, in my opinion, roughly equates to "knowledge" of the world and that concept roughly equates to what we neurologically refer to as "memories". Of course, not simply episodic memories of events, but it essentially could constitute any neuron connection that was built by learning, from very rudimentary stuff like realizing that the person in the mirror is you to ways of relating to people and random trivial facts. "Re-organization" is the transformation of this internal structure, not simply in any ordinary way but with the aim of changing the actual experience of the world. There's a neurological process called memory reconsolidation which tells us that changing existing memories is possible, but the problem which remains is exactly which knowledge structures are the ones that make constructing certain internal experiences so compelling. A person cannot help but feel 'inferior', despite nothing directly causing said experience, they are nonetheless 'compelled' to construct it.

My current working theory is focused on perception. What I referred to by 'context' can be re-conceptualized into different components. Namely, we have the current state of the world or environment as it is, then we have the perception of that world. Firstly, there is no way for an organism to perceive the entirety of reality because of an inherent limitation of cognition and processing power, so the first step in the process is to filter out all of the irrelevant noise and selectively take out certain perceptual objects. Those objects are selected based on learning and adaptation. Secondly, the organism can also apply any number of finite perceptual transformations that also aid in adaptation (constructive or deconstructive). Thirdly, at least when it comes to humans, this perception is presented to the consciousness as a perceptual "gestalt" of the world and constitutes a certain phenomenological experience that is undeniable to the person.

Step one and two in the process are the result or at least a factor of certain "knowledge" of the world. The second step is where I believe we have enough lee-way to control experience, because those transformations are what create certain qualities in perceptual objects which are not inherent in sensual experience. For instance, there is no laser coming out of people's eyes but eye contact might constitute a very uncomfortable experience for someone because of the nature of their perceptual transformations. There are two primary types of transformations: constructive and deconstructive transformation. The first one creates perceptual objects and/or gives them perceptual qualities and the second one does the opposite.

An example of a constructive transformation: a man is hungry but stuck in a long, boring meeting. He cannot leave the meeting in good conscience so he is faced with a "hardship", a difficult perception of reality which he transforms into something more "palatable" i.e. he creates the taste of a juicy burger and melted cheese on his mouth which make him more likely to seek out food but also helps him get through his current experience. Deconstructive perception is a little more subtle as you are less likely to notice something is missing, but it's very apparent in clinical disorders like derealization or shock after a traumatic event. An extreme example of constructive transformation would likely be something like schizophrenia or cases where people see/hear things that aren't there.

This process can be conscious, which is transformation of perception after the fact i.e. after the consciousness receives it's "gestalt" of the world. Daydreaming and dissociation is the most obvious example of that, but the troublesome experiences are usually ones that are transformed before the fact and the person seemingly has no control over them. Currently I'm working towards figuring out which knowledge structures factor into these transformations and make them so compelling.

 No.212359

All this crap stems from our biology inherently, all you can do is cope somehow.

 No.212432

File: 1577216647495.png (19.88 KB, 760x472, 95:59, perception.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>212317
I made a graph of the process so far described. I'm becoming more convinced that perceptual transformations are at the heart of the problem. In hindsight now, it seems obvious that what I referred to as "constructed experience" was simply a natural part of perception. People experience things differently partly due to the nature of perceptual objects they each construct.

For instance, a person's social anxiety makes perfect sense if you consider how the world appears to him. Most commonly it's described as having a permanent spotlight, being in the center of everyone's attention and that attention has a judgemental quality where your every flaw is scrutinized. Usually these descriptions are pointed out to be as irrational, exaggerations or an over-estimation of one's own importance, a result of an immature character flaw. However, this is simply how the world appears to the person, before he has a single conscious thought about it. If these problematic perceptual objects are not inherent in the sensory experience, it makes sense that it's added afterwards, at least implicitly, outside of the person's awareness.

But why would a person do that? Perceptual transformations seem to be internal solutions to a difficult reality. Visually, important or dangerous objects seem to pop-out in the world. According to Gibson, we perceive the world in terms of "affordances", a chair is not merely a brown object in one's vision, but an entire specter of potential and action that's dependent on our knowledge of the world. Due to habit, we implicitly apply certain transformations that helps us get around in the world. They are inherently adaptive, but sometimes they lead to psychopathology and irrational behavior.

An anorexic person perceives their body as inherently disgusting and the eating disorder is simply a poor coping mechanism for that experience of the world. A germaphobe similarly attempts to rid himself of the undesirable perceptual objects of disgust and illness by washing his hands until they bleed. Because the problematic perceptual object is not inherent in the sensual experience, otherwise adaptive behavior like weight loss and hygiene are made pathological due to their ineffectiveness of controlling the perception of that object.

The problem which remains: why are certain perceptual transformations so necessary and compelling to a person, despite the suffering they entail?
If we stick to the original hypothesis that transformations are compelling because they transform an otherwise difficult reality, then it means that the suffering entailed by the transformed reality is somehow still less than the original reality. So, a person perceiving their entire body as inherently disgusting is doing so to escape another, more difficult reality.

There's two things that keep implicit perceptual transformations in place: lack of awareness and the relationship of perceived difficulty <-> perceived solution.
Putting attention on these implicit transformations is enough to momentarily disrupt them, but they exist because of an underlying necessary reality i.e. they solve some kind of perceived difficulty so they keep being compelling to apply.

 No.212438

>>209499
a schizopost

 No.213150

>>209505

How to learn this power of derealization, is it done through a form of visualisation?

 No.213151

>>209573
So this means that i am the originator for feeling bad from my place in society, that emotion doesn't actually exist in reality?

Yet i do not intentionally create it, that's what anon means by its a genetic factor or that we are programmed to react negatively to judgment.

 No.213152

>>212304

What say you of the negative effect of isolation then, are those social constructs?

Phobias, social constructs?

Depression and Anxiety, social constructs?

I do agree with a lot of your ideas i'm just trying to see how far the theory goes

 No.213155

>>209506

Also, i wanted to make a point about 'positive emotion'.

Under your hypotheses, wouldn't it be in one's favor to somehow generate positive emotions, even without the external stimuli supporting the fact?

Say if 'superiority' gave you a good feeling about yourself, you could recognise that you can create good feelings in yourself and so create your own constructs?

 No.213166

File: 1578939617716.jpg (11.81 KB, 299x168, 299:168, rabbit-duck-illusion.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>213152
>>213155
>Under your hypotheses, wouldn't it be in one's favor to somehow generate positive emotions, even without the external stimuli supporting the fact?

I'm all for positive emotions and being able to 'generate' the experience that you want. I spend a lot of time thinking about how to do that without drugs and mystical mumbo jumbo and I'm somewhat optimistic that there's a practical way of doing it.

My initial theories were concerned with how the mind seemingly constructs various experience and understanding the nature of subjectivity. Unknowingly, I was burying myself in the trap of mind-body interaction and better thinkers than me have failed to see through it. My current approach is one perhaps characterized more by naive realism and I feel like I can account for the variety of mental phenomenon with quite a simple conceptualization.

Firstly, as biological organisms we cannot perceive the entirety of reality due to our limited perspective in time and space, biological senses and lastly cognitive ability. We are doomed to experience only a subset of reality, a subset of an infinite perceptual field. The idea is simple: the mind doesn't construct or interpret anything, it simply selects a part of the infinite perceptual field. For instance, if you are depressed then it is because the world appears to you as hopeless, cruel and lifeless. Similarly, a manic depressive experiences reality as the opposite as everything appears full of potential and joy. Yet, do these individuals construct their own realities unknowingly and self-deceptively? No, both their realities, their perceptual frames are completely justified and they can find endless evidence for it. In any situation, you can constitute an infinite amount of viable frames that can all be justified. The 'inferiority' talked about in this thread is simply the result of a habitual, chronic perceptual frame and you cannot escape it through behavior within the frame (accepting it, fighting it or ignoring it).

>Phobias, social constructs?

>Depression and Anxiety, social constructs?

They're not. Your thoughts, emotions and behavior are ultimately motivated, compelled by a certain perception of reality, a way the world appears to you. Within a depressed/anxious person's frame, their entire behavior repertoire is justified and rational. Yet, you can see how these conditions are ultimately self-inflicted. The person suffers because he is chronically stuck in a single frame that promotes suffering.

Instead of the initial idea that a person learns to "construct" a certain experience or world view, he learns to access a certain part of the infinite perceptual field. All learning is ultimately about perception and accessing various parts of the field. What I assume happened to individuals in this thread is that at some point, they learned and became confronted with the perception of their own inferiority like most individuals, but for whatever reason, they became stuck in that frame. A 'normal' person experiences a much more 'mundane' frame, not because they don't have a gazillion faults but because they simply do not perceive them all the time. Your feelings and inability to function are the natural result of such an extreme, unadaptive frame. You can take any "confident" person on the street and if you make them continually aware of their own inferiority they will soon crumble as they learn to access the 'inferior' frame (however, most people can eventually leave that frame).

The idea is that at any point in time, you can select and take up a different perceptual frame, perhaps with some learning. But, sometimes it's not a matter of learning to access it but a reservation against it. For instance, not only do inferior individuals continually experience the inferior frame, they also stop themselves from accessing any other more 'mundane' or 'superior' frame because they have various beliefs and reservations about it. I don't really understand it yet, but if a person is habitually unable to access a certain adaptive frame, it means that there is some reason they're avoiding it. A little exercise for the people in this thread: try to perceive yourself as ultimately good, moral, well-meaning, gentle, perhaps even special. Does it make you feel icky, disgusted, afraid? Well, there's the cause of your inferiority, as 'normal' people do not have such reservations and will always choose the positive frame if its available, so they never fail to see themselves in a positive light thus creating 'self-esteem'.

I'll leave you with an image of the rabbit-duck illusion which really highlights the way different people access different frames. If you concentrate, you can switch between the rabbit and the duck frame based on which features you focus on. Now, if you extend this illusion unto infinity, you can realize how the world is simply just an infinitely complex rabbit-duck illusion with infinite viable frames. The only reason you cannot access the 'superior' frame is because you have certain reservations about it - most people have learned that it's bad to think too well of yourself and nudge themselves back into the 'mundane' or 'inferior' frame in order to be a good boy/succubus. Ultimately, the inferiority complex is a meta-perceptual problem where adaptive frames are avoided for whatever reason.

 No.213169

>>213151
Ultimately, your emotions make sense from your current perceptual frame. That frame is likely the result of a certain learning history and previous experience. Ultimately, you can unlearn it with enough awareness and effort and learn to take up more adaptive frames that result in less suffering. Reacting negatively to judgement is not hard-wired and some people are terrified of it and others are indifferent to it, based on which perceptual frames they habitually access. Some people are shy in childhood yet immune to shame in adulthood. You can't reduce the complexity of human experience to genetics, as one's environment and learning play as much or even greater role in shaping personality and behavior.



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