I know there’s already a suicide thread, but this is more of a philosophical thread. I don’t want to ask, “How should you kill yourself?” or “Should you kill yourself?” but rather, “When should one kill oneself?” or really more of a “Shouldn’t EVERYONE consider eventually committing suicide?” And I also wanted to bounce these thoughts around because it’s not exactly like you can have a straightforward conversation with your mom about suicide.
Let’s say I have a desktop computer that I really, really like. I have the games and all the files on it that I want. As time marches on, I’ll have to do repairs on the computer. A power cord might fray, a power supply might go out. A floppy drive will need to be cleaned up. A hard drive will slowly pick up bad sectors. At some point, the net present value of expected repairs exceeds the cost of a new computer. However, say I’m really attached to this thing, and I march on. Eventually, as components become more and more difficult to find, the cost of singular components become more than a brand new computer. And, at some point in age, maintaining a truly authentic, original computer to the one I like begins to exponentially increase in cost. Into the far future, the infrastructure supporting development of old motherboards in an age of quantum computing, would require me to develop an old-school chip processing fabrication shop just to maintain this old computer. At some point, and although that may be far, FAR into the future, the cost simply becomes too much to be justified.
If I perform the same actuarial analysis on the human body, there likewise appears to be an exponential degradation. For the vast majority of people between their 20s to 30s, medical procedures are relatively benign. But, as time marches on, eventually someone gets a bad knees. They stop exercising, the medical problems begin piling on, then they get a heart attack that sets back their mental function to that of an 8th grader for a few years, then they get cancer, and so on. There’s a similar exponential takeoff in cost to keeping our human bodies running.
One strategy is that you could save as much resources as possible, or move somewhere where medical procedures are much more plentiful and cheaper, but even then the same principle applies. There’s an ultimate limit on the available resources available to you, and medical problems grow at an accelerating rate as one ages(*), no matter where one lives or how incredibly fit a lifestyle you might have. In either case you will run out of resources to maintain simply living. Moreover, as you whittle down these last available resources, life will become exponentially more difficult to live through, stressful, and painful. As a wizard, I know I’m not going to have a family, but assume for the sake of argument that I did. Wouldn’t it make more sense for me to choose a second strategy where I preemptively ‘’’plan’’’ to die BEFORE the statistically inevitable exponential takeoff, so that way I could leave a LOT more resources to my kin than blowing through it all just to live a few more days or weeks at most? Given this exponential takeoff in resources to maintain living, doesn’t it logically make sense that ‘’everyone should plan to eventually commit suicide at some point’’?
There’s plenty to argue about in what I’ve written so far, but in the case that you are the few that is still reading, I also wanted to bounce some thoughts around about estimating ‘’when’’ would be the most ideal time to die. Obviously, you could simply go until you run dry, but given the exponential takeoff when most people seem to get cancer or a heart attack, wouldn’t it make more sense to go ‘’before’’ these incredibly painful moments that just make the rest of one’s life a depressing shitshow? Why not take the age where given your cohort effects you have a cumulative percent chance of getting cancer or a heart attack up to that point of >50%, and off yourself right then and there?
The main benefit is this: if you’re able to plan ahead and save for it, you get to live a significantly larger portion of your worry-free and completely healthy life in luxury. In other words, say I save money until I’m 65, and then I retire. I have the end of my life with an incredibly feeble body that given the life expectancy of the U.S., I would maybe have 13 years, but more significantly is the fact that I don’t know how much longer my funds are really supposed to last me, or really have a good idea of what my costs through retirement were going to be, and especially how the hell do I save when I know that my medical costs are going to increase exponentially as I age. Now, if I ‘’plan’’ to die, when, just to choose a number, say 60. Then I can work backwards to figure out how much I need to maximize the amount I can live in complete comfort without the risk of some event completely bankrupting me (and if such an event does happen, then I know that I’m one of the statistically unlucky that has a higher rate on my exponential curve and can morbidly adjust my date accordingly), which also means that I don’t have to save enough to live off of interest either. I can save enough with the further expectation that I will burn through those savings as well, which means I can ‘retire’ earlier.
Finally, there’s the added bonus that—you know—I don’t die incredibly painfully from pancreatic cancer or an unexpected heart attack as my brain slowly chokes to death for hours while I wreath on the floor for hours. I can leave honorably and peacefully and on my own terms with plenty of time to create a whole “I’ve lived through my allotted time” kind of eschatology.
(*) P.S. I would like to find better data on this. So far, everything I’ve found lumps everyone older than 65 together. Just looking at 10 to 65, there seems to be an exponential curve fit, but it’d be nice to see if it really continues. At some point, I would expect it to stop, not because costs don’t keep going exponential, but because people simply run out of funds and you’re left with only the super-rich able to afford living with 37 cancer treatments in a hospital suite under a ventilator the week before they ultimately die.
Death is a cleansing function of reality. If your current being is completely incapable of achieving actualization, you should kill yourself and start over.
You'll know when the time comes.
It's always too late.
Many variables. The progression of technology and science being one, many terminally ill people often cling on to this one, maybe the next year that revolutionary cure for x disease will exist so that they'll be fit for fight again. As I guess with mechanical things, today the average Joe can create things a low cost in their homes that took previous generations enormous effort and resources.
Some countries have govt subsidized healthcare, certainly we'd save… and now I suddenly lost interest and will go watch anime instead, pls kill me, that's a nice Alpha
What does that even mean? It's not even necessary for everyone to gattai.
>>223125>really more of a “Shouldn’t EVERYONE consider eventually committing suicide?”
Really should have titled your post that, and maybe tried to be a little less long-winded. Everyone is missing the point here.
It means you're delusional if you think there being some treatment for your disease automatically means you will get it. YOu will still have to pay for it, at least if you live in the US.
eh, even in countries wehre there's socialized medicine, it still costs money so they will often let you die or not give you treatment if they deem it too expensive since it's still based on keeping costs low
Though a great many people have insurances for these occasions. A lot of the free healthcare countries have lots of rules and special exception rules for these things, but they generally won't let someone die if there's a cure available.
>>223125>sets back their mental function to that of an 8th grader
from my observation, mental abilities are gradually slow down, even without heart attack. so random 8th grade student is smarter than random 20+
haha, insurance is for insurance companies getting profit, not for curing people.
it's like casino
Ok so it doesn't cover medical expenses because roulette wheels and shit. Damn, I wonder why so many still choose to have one.
t. 9th grader.
Academic knowledge isn't intelligence.
>>223352>so random 8th grade student is smarter than random 20+
No I think you're either mentally retarded or a zoomer that vastly overestimates his intelligence.
>>223126>If your current being is completely incapable of achieving actualization, you should kill yourself and start over.
Honestly, I just wish I knew I could start over. I feel it is true in my gut, I think a lot of people do. Somehow a lot of people, even Christians or religious people seem to have this conviction that there is a "start over", and they express that without even noticing it. But in reality there is no rational justification for a starting over. Rationally it's hard to count on it.
I've been pondering on this in the past couple months in particular. I really wish I can die so I can start over. My life is just hopeless, but I don't necessarily hate it, I just don't see any point to it. I want to die for love of the prospect of a real life I could have by starting over, not for hatred of the hopeless life I currently have. I'm not sure if that makes a whole lot of sense.
At this point it just seems hard to do it, because it would ruin my mother's life and I don't think she would ever recover. I wish I could get her to live a realized life independent of my presence, but I'm not sure that's possible. I might have to wait until the day she dies so that I can go as well, but I'm not entirely sure I can take it for so long.
>When should you die?
Well, ideally, you'd want to skip being diagnosed with cancer entirely, given how much suffering cancer entails. I'll only be considering cancer here because that's the number 1 killer. If you want a >95% of never having to deal with a cancer diagnosis that would kill you in at least 10 years time, that means you'd have to kill yourself by 50 years old. However, given that even if you assumed you were diagnosed with cancer, you'd probably still be able to live for some time before it became unbearable, so, given the 10 years figure above, that means the ideal time to kill yourself would be 55 ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4544764/
Rationally there is no reason to believe that there is any sort of reincarnation. All evidence points to the fact that this is the only life you are ever going to get. If you die and a baby is born at the same second, you do not become that baby, that baby is a totally different person. Only the life you lived here on Earth is what makes you, you. If you change the conditions you change the person.
Based. Why don't people realise this?
Death is the reset button
Nah it isn't reset, rather it is moving on to a different state of being while carrying your consciousness.
Whether memory comes along is undecided so far.
Wrong again, your conscious experience is uploaded to the hyper-dimensional database, so whenever someone loads up your stored file, you are essentially living again
We don't really have enough information to come to any conclusions. It just seems that way from our very limited perspective.
>>223526>we don’t have enough information>except that everything our perception tells us leads to said conclusion
I know you’re arguing that our perception is misleading, but our perception is all we have. We can’t just start perceiving what we can’t perceive. We must work with what we’re given.
Insurance? For peace of mind. If you're fucked, you're fucked, but you hope that they won't ruin you financially at least.
You may lose to a 8th grader in a 8th grader quiz because they recite those useless informations everyday, but your experiences and your strategies should btfo any 8th grader. Like in a duel of wits.
Okay, but that won't happen until the entire universe gets restarted, because the chasis for your conciousness in this world is currently rotting in the earth, or in case of someone who wasn't born yet - isn't prepared yet.
(You) can only fill one person's role, and that person is you, born to a specific lineage in a specific time.
If there is any sort of reincarnation then life is just cyclical hell, if you suicide in this life, you'll suicide in the next.
You're missing the point. When it comes to that specifically, there is just way so much more that we don't know compared to just about any other subject. Yes, you can take any conclusions you want based on what you perceive, they're ultimately pointless either way. This is just like our knowledge about some specific matters pertaining to the Universe are just rebuked and changed all the time, because we're not even close to getting to the big picture and we probably never will. You can spend forever clinging to a microscopic perspective of something we don't understand, it barely makes that any more likely to be reality than just about anything else. We simply don't have the tools to understand it. This is like a little ant postulating on what the little finger of a human foot could be.
rope is good but you can hang yourself with almost any sort of ligature.
i'm going to hang myself with an extension cord lel, it doesn't stretch and i managed to pass out when i was testing it putting pressure on it.
i saw a pic of a succ who hanged herself with an usb cord, she actually died and she went through all the convulsions and shit it didn't come undone.
Imagine that's the secret reason they started making fibre breaded usb cables, lol.
Are you going for full or short hanging Anon
I don't see any reason not to kill yourself as soon as possible. I'm almost 25 now, and I regret not killing myself when I was 18.
Why is his neck like that? Looks like roast beef
>>225172>i saw a pic of a succ who hanged herself with an usb cord, she actually died and she went through all the convulsions and shit it didn't come undone.
Do you have a link about this, wiz?
A young autistic Swede named Marcus Jannus killed himself with some sort of computer cable, too. (Image is his dead body.)https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Swedish_man_uses_webcam_to_broadcast_suicide_live_on_internet
There's an app that takes an image and does "something something machine learning something something" to make it look older. If you keep passing the same image of Stefan Molyneux over and over again to it, you get that image.>>225193
If this is true, what are are you still doing here?
>>225220>If this is true, what are are you still doing here?
It's complicated. The main reason right now is because I don't have a shotgun yet. When I was younger, I was a lot more optimistic about technology and transhumanism fixing my problems, like >>223257
>>225219>just do it!
what a funny guy.
partial, gonna do like this lad>>225219
can't find the pic unfortunately it was a long time ago
that's the guy i got my idea from
I think that if you have bad mental illness and are forever alone, 55-60 is the point you should do it at the latest. Afterwards you beeline towards dementia pretty rapidly and your health declines.
Is that sounds in the end him shitting?
>>223509>All evidence points to the fact that this is the only life you are ever going to get.
And what is this "evidence" you speak of? If there are an infinite number of realities, this means an infinite number of chances for "your" locus of awareness to be reincarnated. There's clearly some sort of creative force that allowed my consciousness to come in existence the first time, and there's no reason to think it only happens once.
>Only the life you lived here on Earth is what makes you, you. If you change the conditions you change the person.
If this is the case, "you" become a different person every moment of every day, i.e. Empty Individualism.
What is this mumbo-jumbo? Do you even second law of thermodynamics??
Plus you even contradict yourself. If you have reincarnations, you would be able to remember them, under your own system, but you don't so you aren't.
>>225255>If you have reincarnations, you would be able to remember them
Why? If memories are encoded in the brain, there is no reason why "you" would remember your past lives. Are you implying that you die and become a different person if you have amnesia?
No. This is precisely "fairy tale" physics, the equivalent of gender studies, feminism, post-post-modernism, etc in academia.
Also, Einstein was a fraud: https://www.unz.com/lromanoff/a-few-historical-frauds/
Then what do you consider to be actual science?
That is, simply put, irrelevant. See for example Buddha's fourteen unanswered questions (whether he knew the answers is irrelevant, he didn't answer them because it would have only added baggage to people's path towards liberation). Also consider how many ancients (Greek Epicureans, Stoics, neo-Platonists, etc) lived good, calm and serene lives without knowing the ultimate answers.
My point is - if you want to believe the MWI or Tegmak or other faggots in modern academia who are INCENTIVIZED to produce stranger and more fantastical interpretations than their predecessors just to one-up them and get a reputation - do that, believe them. But don't delude yourself thinking it is science and you are objectively closer to the truth.
Maybe it came harsher than it should be. MWI makes for good fiction (e.g., Steins;Gate) and I sometimes like to think about an alternative self and so on… but I keep it as a thought experiment, nothing more.
You do you, wiz. Just allow yourself to not take the authority of these fantasy peddlers in current academia. Except for theoretical constructs they have nothing scientific to prove it. Even the mainstream interpretations in QM (e.g., indeterminism) are just that - interpretations. We don't know enough about the world to say these are ontological truths; they may just be phenomenological problems (with us, with our measuring devices, etc.)
tl;dr: Take a breath and allow yourself to make your own observations; if you chose to accept the MWI, the block universe, etc these are un-testable beliefs and should be treated as such.
Why is Einstein a fraud? I am a mere layman, sir, please enlighten me
Don't end up a cripple without the ability to kill yourself. You could be left tortured for decades. I don't think like you because other people can never be worth taking the risk of that
You are saying that there is still posiblity of being cripple even when falling from grand canyon?
As long as he lands on head on a hard surface then he is dead meat. No chance of survival
He stole everything from other mathematicians and physicists, then emigrated to America and, with the help of Edward Bernays (Freud's nephew who was arguably the most influential propagandist in the 20th century) built through the Chosenite-controlled media the image of the incredible genius chased away by ebil nazis for his.
Einstein never wanted to return in Germany and not because he was denied or hounded by Nazis (remember that most important American and Soviet inventions post WW2 were due to them snatching German scientists and offering them a new life and the possibility to continue their works), but because everyone in Germany, including fellow Chosenite scientists knew he was a fraud. Thus he remained in America where he was viewed as a genius and a saint.
See also the article in >>225261
for his genius
at the point where my life becomes unbearable. Now it is still comfy and everything. I don't enjoy it but it is tolerable to stay around. My body works, I feel no bodily pain, I can move and don't need drugs.
However, because of my unhealthy habits I am in the stroke risk category and I just don't want to have the same fate my dad's best friend had. He had a stroke but survived. It left him in a crippled state. He cannot even tie his own shoes anymore. If I get struck by one, I want to die on the spot.
Whenever my life should become unbearable, I am free to die.
no worries at all
And for dying I intended CO poisonning but I might go on an adventure anyways with my last 2'000 dollars or something. Like travel to some civil war country and get myself blown apart by the militants for espionage or something
There is 6 million ways to die, I will probably find one suitable for me
>>225659>6 million ways to die
Sounds like a really good movie title starring Jason Statham, Bruce Willis and Vin Diesel
Wish I had a shotgun. Im too pussy to hang myself but the possibility of some worse fate by another party frightens me more.
Look into inert gas asphyxiation
>>225292>die from cholesterol
cholesterol is actually very very good for you
think he meant chlorophyll
>>223125>The main benefit is this: if you’re able to plan ahead and save for it, you get to live a significantly larger portion of your worry-free and completely healthy life in luxury. In other words, say I save money until I’m 65, and then I retire. I have the end of my life with an incredibly feeble body that given the life expectancy of the U.S., I would maybe have 13 years, but more significantly is the fact that I don’t know how much longer my funds are really supposed to last me, or really have a good idea of what my costs through retirement were going to be, and especially how the hell do I save when I know that my medical costs are going to increase exponentially as I age. Now, if I ‘’plan’’ to die, when, just to choose a number, say 60. Then I can work backwards to figure out how much I need to maximize the amount I can live in complete comfort without the risk of some event completely bankrupting me (and if such an event does happen, then I know that I’m one of the statistically unlucky that has a higher rate on my exponential curve and can morbidly adjust my date accordingly), which also means that I don’t have to save enough to live off of interest either. I can save enough with the further expectation that I will burn through those savings as well, which means I can ‘retire’ earlier.
Another option to this is to just "retire" on debt at a younger than normal retirement age, knowing that your suicide will come before you have to pay it back. If you are able to plan your suicide 10 or 15 years in the future, you could probably get away with this kind of lifestyle for quite a while, since you can spend years building up good credit, and then years ruining it. Paying off debt with other credit cards, taking out more loans, taking equity out of any property you may own, etc.
Show me the actual math of this since banks will have priced this in, they are not dumb, show me the math
do you think belief in personal immortality is compatible with denial of the soul?