No.229783[Last 50 Posts]
Over the years I've posted many posts on various social media and imageboards describing my problems and I have never gotten any advice that helped, most of it boils down to "just start small!". This doesn't help me at all, I can't maintain focus for long, nor do I feel particularly enthusiastic or passionate about the long term goals I have for myself (i.e read more books, exercise more, study something online like programming). I'm going to post an outline of issues for the sake of further context but I want the focus of this thread NOT to be about helping ME, but rather examining why the typical wizard afflictions are so hard to cure in the first place, why we are like this and if there really is anything we can do to fix it, or if we are just doomed to suffer.
I have no idea what to do with my life, I spend all day in my room on my computer watching YouTube and anime and I'm so sick of this life. I want to do something but I don't know what to do, I try to leave my house but I get so anxious and I have to go back to my room, I hate talking to people too. I've tried to learn something online but I get so bored and uninterested, I tried to learn programming but I found it so boring I couldn't motivate myself to do it. I don't even think I will be able to finish high school (I'm a high school drop out, yay me) or even college because I am so lazy and uninterested. I'm diagnosed with aspergers and ADHD but I can't get prescribed stimulants because I have had psychosis. I have a psychiatrist for my depression but none of the meds ever help, in fact since I started taking antidepressants I've gained over 100 pounds in less than 3 years. My psychiatrist doesn't even prescribe me anything when I say my meds are not working, he says to keep taking what I'm already taking (bupropion). I think my aspergers has ruined my life because I am so depressed and apathetic about everything, nothing seems worth it and life feels meaningless. Everything seems so hard and insurmountable. I honestly hate living this, everyday I get older and less capable, I keep repeating the same joyless day over and over again, hoping for something to spark within and change my entire being, but I know it will never happen. I just wish I could be happy with this current lifestyle but I seem to be missing something incredibly vital to human satisfaction, but I don't know how to get it.
from what i gather about your pill habit it seems you are just waiting for someone or something to magically fix your life
in this predicament you have dug into you have deceived yourself to be the fool that was told he won the lottery and just needed to wait for someone to call him to claim it
seeing as how you seem to be unaware of this, you could use this to put things into perspective
Im not going to bother with greentexting every point i want to address but im still going to answer them,
I think the first major point of contention is that wizards dont enjoy being wizards, that is empirically false. I greatly enjoy my wizneet life and would never attempt to live a different way.
The second major point of contention is assuming that all wizards are depressed, that is not true, and that assumption probably is affecting your perception of what wizardhood is.
The third point of contention is that regardless of mental illness we are inherently given happiness. That is not true and i will paraphrase the comment that helped me the most with realizing this: “there is no understanding happiness. You are born with a certain level of happiness(feel good brain chemicals) and you will never be able to exceed that level. The best you can do is partake in activities or drugs that temporarily increase that base level of happiness. But once you stop doing those activities you are going to return to that baseline, which is no happiness”. With knowing that, it becomes easier to accept that unfortunately some of us are not capable of experiencing certain emotions and experiences.
The fourth point of contention is that mental illness is curable and taking poisonous drugs will help you overcome your issues. Has heroin ever helped anyone? No of course not, and that drug is more understood than garbage psychiatry drugs. The unfortunate reality is our one life is all there is. The best thing we can do to overcome defects in our natural biological programming is understanding what makes us different, and not shying away from that: but indulging it and learning what makes us this way.
We are nothing but animals, there is no point in attempting to apply rationality to an inherently irrational reality. Once we accept that, only then can we learn and improve on the faults we feel are unnatural. I hope my post somewhat answered your questions.
Look what board you are on, if you aren't depressed then why you are you on this board? I'm sure some wizards are happy but I'm specifically talking about the ones who are not.
/dep/ is /v9k/, being unhappy comes from many different sources other than depression. That being said i am not happy nor do I understand what happiness means. I enjoy being a wizneet, that does not mean i enjoy every facet of reality. If you bothered to read my full post youll see i addressed that. I answered your thread from a wizards perspective, just because you dont agree doesn’t invalidate my post. I dont mean to sound patronizing or antagonistic, but you also didnt refute anything i posted.
Personally speaking, for me; it takes being challenged and being shown an alternate perspective for me to look at something in a new light. That being said and going by your reply, that’s something you are uninterested in.
My whole point of this post isn't even to find a solution, it's to understand why we are like this, it's like doing an autopsy on your mind, it won't bring it back to life but you just want to know what went wrong, and maybe by doing that we can determine if it was curable in the first place, or maybe we will find an uncurable tumor.
Is that not what my posts stated? I answered your questions truthfully. You didnt declare a point with your thread as you immediately discarded any attempt at being taught something. A wizard answered your regurgitated thread and you still insist on saying everyone is wrong. Drop your blinders wiz, reality is fucking garbage and its always going to be that way. Its how you choose to perceive it is what will make the difference.
Being a so-called mentally ill loser (lol nice groid tier language) for many is a significant part of being a wizard (MALE virgin who abstains from social and romantic functions) actually, or at least it did before brahs and crypto-foids began shitting the place up.
I reckon most of us "became" like this because this is just who we are, I doubt most here were fighting off succubi and friends with a stick to begin with.
>>229806>>229806>You can be happy as a wizard but only if social/sexual relationships aren't something you care about (like actually, not just larping for the sake of mods).
I don't care about relationships, where did I mention wanting to have a relationship? I just want a sense of meaning and purpose, but I guess that's not "normal" wizard thinking according to you, even though there's multiple other posts asking for the same thing.
>In all likelihood, you're only a virgin because of circumstance, and while your suffering is valid, you don't belong here.
What constitutes a "real" wizard? Are volcels the only real wizards? Haven't you noticed that most of the users here have severe mental illness and many of them have autism? I mean the way you described wizards makes them seem like they are ascetic monks who removed themselves from society in order to bask in the holy virtues of 24/7 masturbation and anime.
Because its largely a life of despair, most just need to accept it and keep moving. We were the ugly hatchlings that never grew properly.
>>229807>for many is a significant part of being a wizard
Well, they're wrong and don't belong here. I'm not pretending like this site isn't 99% failed groids that can't find purpose outside of courting a female and social approval.>>229809>where did I mention wanting to have a relationship?
>>>>I just wish I could be happy with this current lifestyle but I seem to be missing something incredibly vital to human satisfaction
Read that a couple times. You lack self-awareness and you're deluding yourself that you don't really care about human relationships. I don't listen to what you say but what you do and how you describe your life.
>I just want a sense of meaning and purpose
And where do you think most people get that from? You might claim that you don't care, but you're incapable of finding interest in anything else and you're severely depressed, like a chimp put in a cage, not allowed to mate and play with other chimps. You need sex and social approval or you break down like any other normalfag.
>ascetic monks who removed themselves from society in order to bask in the holy virtues of 24/7 masturbation and anime.
Never said this was the case. I live in society because it's convenient, I interact with people in that society and I participate in the economy. Masturbation isn't a problem but a solution - it removes and satisfies a natural urge, like eating when hungry. It's only a problem for crabs that think masturbation can give you what you're really craving - affection, social approval, sense of belonging etc. You can't even imagine life outside of two extremes of being a go-getter groid and ascetic monk.
No they're not and you dont get to barge in with your feminine platitudes regarding who belongs here or not. This is an imageboard for neets, fuckups, "losers", a specific group of men who do not fit in and share a common mindset. This was never meant to be a place for perfectly happy norp tiers who happen to be virgins.
modern human societies are very dependent on co-operation and social skills, it ain't easy being an outcast living in an urban area like most of us probably do
Do you have any more of these Uncle Ted images?
I find them comfy and reassuring
When my depression phases cycle out I can experience a very fulfilling Wizard life. No need for relationships or friendships, I'm polite and kind to people without needing more. I'm content with a balanced day of activities and hobbies, making some progress here and there. Exercise and creativity are enough. I don't think there's anything essential to wizardry that makes people unhappy, all the philosophy and psychology stuff can work even as a Wiz. The neurotic style obsessions with having girlfriends etc are self inflicted. If there was something essential I wouldn't be able to feel periods of contentment.
My only wiz-negative theory is that having a normal life provides better mood stability, through regular routine, social emotional support, and other psychological benefits.
Its probably because we have low testosterone
>>229806>a happy wiz tells a depressed wiz that he doesn't belong in /dep/
This is too much,now it seems that everyone on wizchan should be an uber happy wizard and everyone who is not extremely happy should leave.
I wonder what happened to all the oldfag wizzies from 2012-2015 maybe they left the site for good after it was infested by covert normalfags
it's pretty obvious that people like >>229806
are just tourists that came from reddit or something and took control of the place.
>wizards are doomed to suffer<you feel bad because you have these mental illnesses and not because of wizardry>if you're not miserable why are you on /dep/?
…>why do I have 0 replies in my thread?>>229834>oldfag wizzies from 2012 and 2015
They left to r9k and crabs.co. Do you not remember how wizardchan was in 2014? It was complaining about not getting sex 24/7. Especially on v9k, which moved to dep.
>>229834>I wonder what happened to all the oldfag wizzies from 2012-2015 maybe they left the site for good after it was infested by covert normalfags
some of us still pop in from time to time. but i think many just got chased out or became sick of all the bullshit on here from various sources and left.
the covert norps and crypto-foids are absolutely disgusting subhumans and just goes to show what parasites they are, especially succubi.>>229837>They left to r9k and crabs.co
r9k hasnt been relevant in 10 years and i'm pretty sure in cels . co is mostly zoomers.
>Do you not remember how wizardchan was in 2014? It was complaining about not getting sex 24/7
no it wasnt
Wizards that hate being wizards are just failed normalfags.
>>229807>I doubt most here were fighting off succubi and friends with a stick to begin with.
Actually, I had to. I was quite a popular kid among the unpopular ones in school and was on okay terms with even some popular kids too. I started getting rid of friends and all that and putting a careful distance between myself and others around the time of high school. I realized that friends are fucking useless and that you are better off alone.
About succubi, I had several chances to get sex and/or gfs but I refused every time, managed to signal to the opposite sex that I wanted to keep to myself and that I don't care about relationships.
Why is this so hard to imagine for some wizards here? Not every wizard is an outcast, quite a few of us are outsiders. Big difference. We weren't cast out, we left the herd consciously and willingly.
>>229846>Actually, I had to. I was quite a popular kid among the unpopular ones in school and was on okay terms with even some popular kids too. >About succubi, I had several chances to get sex and/or gfs
This part of your post was absolutely unnecessary,was it supposed to elicit responses?
Are we on the same board? There's literally a suicide general here, most of us are suffering. Of course mental issues are causing my issues, depression is a mental illness.>>229812>You lack self-awareness and you're deluding yourself that you don't really care about human relationships
ALright, I'll bite, if I all I need is a relationshit and normie friends then why I do I hate talking to people? Why does it bore me to tears? Why do I prefer escapism more than IRL interaction? If I have to get a relationshit to be happy then how do I fix these issues? Alternatively, how can I rewire myself to not care?
>You need sex and social approval or you break down like any other normalfag.
Right, so I just need to stick my dick in a succubus and I'm cured, right? This is some crab level thinking, I hate to mention them but the many of those "doomer" types have had sex and are still miserable.
it's just wizchan 2020 coming up again not that it surprises me anymore.
>>229846>i was and am a perfectly normal kid had friends and even succs coming on to me but i just happen to be a virgin
man i hope alot of that is just trolling
>we left the herd consciously and willingly
no you didnt, you just spread the herd far and wide. its abundantly clear in the attitudes many of this stripe carry in places like this.
Try a combination of modafinil and phenibut.
>>229848>why I do I hate talking to people?
Well, you've mentioned high levels of anxiety. Your lack of self awareness makes it likely you're socially inept as well. You probably can't hold a conversation very well and even if you could, what would you even talk about when you spend all your time in your room, escaping your life instead of living it? It's not enough to just be in a room with people, the interactions have to be meaningful and go well.
>If I have to get a relationshit to be happy then how do I fix these issues?
Beats me. I don't make the fuck ups nor I am interested in curing them.
>Alternatively, how can I rewire myself to not care?
A couple more decades of being in denial maybe? Most of your kind either gets better due to random chance or just ends up shooting themselves. No matter how hard you try, you're not going to find meaning and purpose between your four walls, you're just not wired that way despite your wishes.
>Right, so I just need to stick my dick in a succubus and I'm cured, right?
Nah, you need meaningful interaction with the opposite sex. You need "love", "compassion", someone to be both metaphorically and literally naked in front of without needing to hide. The groids call it "intimacy". Sex for normans is about more than just pleasure - if it wasn't, masturbation would be enough.
Maybe watch a romantic comedy or something and empathize with what the characters are feeling? Might be difficult if you're autistic, I guess.
I apreciate the way you lay down your points, expecially the third one. "Happiness" can be compared like sound volume in speakers in that some are louder than other, but is expected.
No but why should I lie? I don't break any rules, I am a friendless hermit male virgin. I chose this life. My point was that not all of us are daydreaming about being normals, having friends, having sex and all that. And if you do daydream about such things then you are better off on r9k.>>229858>i was and am a perfectly normal kid had friends and even succs coming on to me but i just happen to be a virgin
I wasn't "normal" but you don't have to be "normal" to have friends, there are plenty of weird normals, losers, nerds and all that out there who are only waiting for someone to be friends with. Contrary to meme-thinking here, lots of normals are far stranger than most of us here, they just happen to live social lives and they make friends with other weird normals.
As for succubi, you also don't have to be "normal" at all. There are many ugly, desperate, mentally-ill or bitch-y ones who offer themselves up to even homeless bums. Again, maybe we wizards couldn't maintain long-term relationships but I'm pretty certain most of us here could get sex without too much effort if we really wanted to.>no you didnt, you just spread the herd far and wide
But I did? Living in society because of it is easier to survive that way doesn't make you part of the herd. I don't interact with others outside my family, except for wizchan and I don't share most common views that are shared by normalfags. This is pretty much as far as you can get with leaving the herd.
Tried most instinctual things?
Pen-in-butt theory again
>>229876>Sex for normans is about more than just pleasure
Correct, it's about social status and validation.
>>229881>then you are better off on r9k.>crab>you don't belong here
These kind of replies are basically memes at this point, the covert normies and improvebruhs basically try to overthrow the actual order under the guise of "protecting it" against normalfags when in fact they are the cancer has been killing wizchan since 2017 or so.
It's the same thing that happened to 4chan when normies appeared and seized the place.
OP and >>229806
are like complete different species, there's no point in arguing between you two. First of all, OP should get a job in whatever he can and I'm sure that'll marginally improve his happiness-levels. Make no mistake, both of you are autistic, but the way you percieve the world around you is completely different. >>229876
Is more of a textbook autist kind that is completely absorbed in whatever little bubble of anime and fairy tales they've created for themselves. These types often tend to look down on others because they don't devote their life to consooming and self-improoving for some reason. The smugness
they exude Is bothersome for me as their situation isn't that much better compared to literal bottom of the barrel types like OP.
>>229806>while your suffering is valid, you don't belong here
This part I disagree with. "only a virgin due to circumstance" is hilariously vague, you are in effect saying only asexual, aromantic people belong here, while the only real rule is "no sexual experience by age 30". So kindly fuck off with that. I agree with the rest of your post though, OP is a dysfunctional person who needs to overcome their emotional limitations.
>>229881>i wasnt normal
lol yeah ok
no there arent, relative to us.
>As for succubi, you also don't have to be "normal" at all. There are many ugly, desperate, mentally-ill or bitch-y ones who offer themselves up to even homeless bums. Again, maybe we wizards couldn't maintain long-term relationships but I'm pretty certain most of us here could get sex without too much effort if we really wanted to
this part in particular is suspicious. succubi are very picky about who they get with.
>But I did?
you didnt, and you bring your shitty normalfag herd mentality garbage with you here.
At least you found a way to feel superior to both while providing no greater insight into what it means to be happy. I mean, get a job? Gee, thanks grandma.
Apart from that splendid advice, you managed to create an unoriginal caricature which has no bearing on what was actually posted. While the "oo" meme is quite original and amusing, I never advocated for either type of lifestyle and only mentioned a brief, general definition of happiness that no one can really argue against. If I look down on OP, it's because of his lack of personal insight and posting the same thread for the Nth time, with yet another variation of the lazy/distressed cat image.
If you're going to act smug, at least earn the privilege by addressing what people say and having an actual opinion that you stand behind, instead of the whole detached narrator explaining a nature scene documentary routine.>>229897>you are in effect saying only asexual, aromantic people belong here
Gosh darn, I knew I should have saved that bearded man meme image. Oh, well.
>>229899>At least you found a way to feel superior to both while providing no greater insight into what it means to be happy. I mean, get a job? Gee, thanks grandma.
There's not much I can advice to OP because he is quite literally a lost cause and I mean that in the happiness sense. Like you said already he's just not wired to derive pleasure from his situation.
As for why I'm being mean to you, It's because, as other's have pointed out, you guys act like being able to enjoy some stuff and being somewhat content suddenly makes you a god. Just like OP happens to be miserable because of this reason or that, you JUST happen to be happy, for whatever reason. You damn well know It's just how this works, yet still brag about it, and bragging is a normalfag trait btw
>>Is more of a textbook autist kind that is completely absorbed in whatever little bubble of anime and fairy tales they've created for themselves.
It's funny because from the outside I'm basically like that, watching anime and movies and playing video games all day. It's always bothered me that some autists can do this forever and be happy, while someone like me feels unfulfilled and like I'm wasting my life. I wonder what caused me to become like this, am I just not autistic enough? To use cliche terms, I just feel empty inside.
>>229846>I was popular back at school and had friends and even females wanted to have seks with me but I'm just like u guise I swer
You know I used to get mad at posts like this but I just get a laugh now, it's amazing how this site has deteriorated so quickly in the past years.
ASD individuals don't have a monopoly on low thresholds of contentment. There are plenty of ostensibly happy NT's who spend their lives doing not much else besides working a mindless job and watching television.
>>229901>bragging is a normalfag trait btw
So is jealousy, my dude. You could attribute my happiness to random chance, but really it's as simple as understanding your own needs and being skilled enough to satisfy them. That's why people like a OP are doubly fucked, not only are they clueless about what they really care about but they're also incompetent, which means they'll continue to be unhappy unless the universe spontaneously organizes itself into their preferred form.>>229902
You seem to be under the misconception that happiness is only possible if you're mentally limited and can be satisfied with petty consumerism or racking up stats, which is not the case. Happiness is just the side-effect of perceiving things you care about going well, which can take the form of consumerism and working on yourself, but can also be just as simple as having an empty coffee shop all to yourself if you really dislike crowds or as complex as finding a religion/philosophy that really tickles your existential itch.
Perhaps it is easier for autistic people to be amused, but their lives are turbulent precisely because they have no insight into their own psychology and cannot willfully organize their lives in a preferable manner. Why do you guys keep making these threads about what will make you happy? You already know that on an instinctual level, but you're avoidant of it because of painful emotions that keep you from striving towards your needs. If you really feel so empty from being alone, maybe you ought to re-think the wizard lifestyle.
It's really easy to figure it out. Imagine being on a bus and the succubus from the opposite seat starts checking you out, giving you the fuck me eyes and outright begging you to fuck her right there and then. Does that make you feel empty? Notice if it's just some painful feelings that are pulling you away instead of actual disinterest. You can use these imaginative techniques to figure out how you really feel about things, notice when you're conflicted and to understand how you respond to things. Cold, rational, detached thinking will never give you insight like that because on the surface it seems like you're following some line of logic, but really you're just unconsciously being lead to certain conclusions that feel right. In case of crabs in denial, the painful shame and anxiety usually overshadows the real need of being loved and cared about.>>229903
And why would you get mad about a person being better at a game you don't even play?
It's like a guy telling you about his effortless golf swing and you get really butthurt about him humble-bragging?
You should seriously re-evaluate if you actually belong here, for your own sake.
>>229918>>>why would you get mad at sucking at something?
Because you presumably care about being good at that something. I'm a piss poor piano player, but I don't get visibly shaken if someone mentions they can play Rocket Man with their eyes closed, I might even be impressed. But this tranquility is only afforded to me because I have no emotional attachment to my skill or lack thereof in that domain. in short, I don't care about it, alongside an infinite amount of other domains.
Similarly, humble-bragging about being attractive to the opposite sex is only irksome if that game was particularly important to you. Which naturally leads to the question, why are you on a forum for voluntary celibates, who by definition have no interest in it?
Covert crabs don't understand how much they reveal themselves purely by describing their own emotions and behavior. They only manage to fool themselves and only for a second probably.
>>229922>Because you presumably care about being good at that something>Similarly, humble-bragging about being attractive to the opposite sex is only irksome if that game was particularly important to you.
You couldn't be more wrong here. It's annoying for the same reason a post that reads that an anonymage is enjoying his weekend at his friends house, partying, would be. You don't seem to recognize normalfag behaviour that well, maybe your wizard glasses fell off. Now what would you say in a case like that? That I'm upset because I want to be in his shoes spending my weekend like him, partying? Would that be the reason? But if you want to welcome that type of discussion, sure. Let's open a thread where we discuss our sexual attractiveness.
>why are you on a forum for voluntary celibates, who by definition have no interest in it?
Lol. This isn't a forum for voluntary celibates. This is a forum for virgins. Who says the virgins on here don't want to have sex or be in a relationship? I have no way of knowing that so where do you get that idea from? Remember that Wizchan rules don't make the wizard. The only thing that makes you a wizard is being a male virgin past the age of 30 and that's the first and only requirement to post here.
>Covert crabs don't understand how much they reveal themselves purely by describing their own emotions and behavior
So you really believe that the majority of wizchan users are volcels? I wish there was a way to know if that's true. Either way, you really shouldn't attack or look down upon other wizards for being failures with succubi. It's beyond their control, and besides, these wizards have a more cynical and pessimistic outlook on life than your normalfags volcels who grew up with succubi drooling over them, and therefore are more deserving of being here on a site like Wizchan.
I just remembered that good looking and outgoing people, never mixed with the non attractive and introverted. I wonder why?
>>229898>no there arent, relative to us.
There are many more things that can make you weird in the eyes of people other than being a friendless virgin.
>this part in particular is suspicious. succubi are very picky about who they get with.
Yes, many are like that. But not all. Just like how not every male is a testosterone-driven Chad who only thinks about pussy. Categorizing people based on their sex is just stupid, there I said it.
>you didnt, and you bring your shitty normalfag herd mentality garbage with you here.
I wonder which one of us has the herd-mentality really. Me, who actually had a chance to live as a normal but chose the wizard life or you, who didn't have a chance but wants to be a normalfag?>>229903
Yes, it is amazing how this site turned from v9k "tfw nogf" bullshit into a site that bans people who mention having the desire to become a normal. You don't belong here.>>229923>Remember that Wizchan rules don't make the wizard
They do. If you aren't happy being a wizard then why are you even here? Go to some r9k clone and complain about your virginity and how you have no friends all day there.
Anyways, it is typical failed normalfag hatred/envy that oozes from your posts. Judging people on factors that are completely irrelevant- whether they are attractive sexually or not, whether they could have friends or not, etc- instead of judging them in connection with their decisions and worldviews. If you didn't care succubi, sex and friends then it wouldn't trigger your type that volcels post here. As things stand, you are just mad because you can't comprehend how some people can refuse the normal life in favor of the wizard one. You are pathetic beyond words.
>>229923>Let's open a thread where we discuss our sexual attractiveness.
If someone dislikes female attention and chooses to discuss it on a forum for people of similar disposition, I don't see the problem with it because I recognize how annoying unwanted attention can be. Crabs immediately interpret this as humble bragging because they can't imagine that someone would find that unpleasant. I cherish the fact that I'm average and can hide in plain sight.
>So you really believe that the majority of wizchan users are volcels?
I don't, the majority is covert crabs that LARP for the mods or as some form of coping through denial.
>Either way, you really shouldn't attack or look down upon other wizards for being failures with succubi.
Again, I look down on them because they're in denial about their needs and don't belong here. Whether you're famous or infamous among the ladies is irrelevant to me.
Explain right now how the rules of wizchan make you a wizard, please. There have been wizards before Wizchan, so are you saying there were not wizards then because Wizchan did not exist at the time? What makes you a wizard is being a 30 year old virgin, that's it. Wizchan rules never come into the equation.
Wizchan rules are based on the wizard meme, and not the other way around. I won't insult you like you did, but seriously try to use your head once in a while.>>229927>If someone dislikes female attention and chooses to discuss it on a forum for people of similar disposition, I don't see the problem with it because I recognize how annoying unwanted attention
Why would you discuss the female attention you receive on Wizchan. It's disregard succubi, remember? Can't you as an adult man simply ignore it, is it necessary for you to make posts about it and threads to complain of how hard is to be a volcel for you?
>I don't, the majority is covert crabs that LARP for the mods or as some form of coping through denial.
Then what makes you say that this is a forum for volcels when you believe the majority of its userbase is composed of the opposite? What volcels do you even know? How can you even confirm that users here are volcels or crabs? You go by what they say? Is it a feeling you have? What is it?
You haven't addressed my point where I tell you that wizchan is for virgins, not exclusive for your beloved volcels, anyways. As I see it, this place is more suitable for involuntary celibates than volcels and it's always been like that. Because Volcel sounds like a title a normalfag would use to feel above others virgins.
Celibacy whether voluntary or involuntary should really be of no importance in Wizchan, the only thing that matters on here is following of rules. After all, there's no way of proving you a volcel or crab, or even a virgin.
>>229930>You haven't addressed my point where I tell you that wizchan is for virgins, not exclusive for your beloved volcels, anyways.
You're right, this isn't my website and I cannot really discuss its purpose. It was the admin's choice (pbuh) to create this digital place where virgins may congregate and he hasn't spoken definitively on what group belongs here. Except, one group would be immediately banned if they were to discuss their feelings and desires openly, so that might be a clue :^)
I agree with smug anime wiz. Not with his attitude, but let's leave that aside. It all comes down to choice. Would a forum for vegans have a section about depression regarding veganism? It wouldn't because they are vegans by choice. If that choice were to drive them to depression they could just quit being vegan. I'd argue most people here, especially nowadays, are not wizards by choice.
So we are stuck with different visions regarding what this site is really about.
Voluntary wizards can hardly see eye to eye with failed norm wizards. Helping out someone like OP who generalizes all wizardhood is also nearly impossible. Whether it comes down to predisposition or something else, offering advice AS A WIZARD and in the context of a site ABOUT Wizards will result either in an endless circle of misery with other failed norm wizards or a heated debate with voluntary wizards. If we remove the context of this site, /dep/ problems could be tackled through a different lens, but what even is the point of this board then?
I am by no means claiming superiority here, but I can confidently say that I am a wizard by choice. If I truly suffered because of wizardhood, I'd seek to change that. If I suffered because of NEEThood, I'd try to change that. If I suffered because of hikkihood, I'd seek to change that. And for the latter, I did and it improved my life. Pure hikkihood didnt work out well so I went out more, started caring less about others impressions and I judged others less. After a few years I'm still happy, which shows that neither NEET- nor wizardhood was a problem for me, psychologically or physically.
I realize of course that I'm quite fortunate, even being able to NEET is a blessing and I do by no means condemn people lamenting things like work for example, but complaining about being a wizard really does nothing but try to drag crabs back into the bucket.
All in all this requires high self-awareness and the ability to analyze yourself. I suggest meditation. Let the thoughts come, accept them, don't judge them as good or bad and when possible go back to focusing on your breathing. Doing so regularly might remove some brainfog. After a few weeks, try to search yourself and find out if you truly want to be a wizard, if you want to be a NEET, if you want to be a hikki, if you want to work, if you want to be jealous, if you want to be smug, if you want to live. I realize that many here are really unfortunate in a lot of different ways and might have horrible circumstances, but being aware of your own goals might help.
I wish all wizards voluntary or not the best and think this site can be for both, but in the context of depression and unhappiness it should be about other factors, not your virginity itself.
>>229933>one group would be immediately banned if they were to discuss their feelings and desires openly, that might be a clue
If you affirm that the majority on wizchan are crabs, like you did in your previous posts, then it's highly likely that the majority of posts are made by them. Therefore you already have this group of crabS discussing their feelings and desires OPENLY here on Wizchan and are doing so without getting banned.
Very interesting, isn't it? It's almost as if you can have both your hated crabs and beloved volcels, who have the same desires and feelings as the crabs, posting on wizchan as long as they both follow the rules. Who would have thought?
I find it weird the way you see people. Do you believe for a second that volcels don't experience the same feelings of lust or desire as the crabs? Are these volcels beyond human? What are these volcels exactly? Do they have any depth or are just caricatures of what you think a wizard is supposed to be? Seriously, because the volcels would get banned if they expressed their "desires" and "feelings" which are not something they choose in the first place. Did you not think about that for a second? That vocels and crabs feel the same thing?
>>229935>you already have this group of crabS discussing their feelings and desires OPENLY here on Wizchan
Are you being pedantic? Yes, crabs can discuss their feelings and desires about food, video games, music, hobbies and so on, but if they were to discuss their desire for sex and social activities, they would neutralized in an instant, and that's the key aspect in which these two groups differ.
>That vocels and crabs feel the same thing?
Yeah, man. We both feel pain when you punch us in the face, but we differ in one very crucial aspect, and that exactly our feelings and desires surrounding sex and social activities.
Again, I cannot speak for the admin's intentions, but in all likelihood, the price for having a modicum of traffic on this website is being somewhat ambiguous about the site's actual values.
>>229936> crabs can discuss their feelings and desires about food, video games, music, hobbies and so on, but if they were to discuss their desire for sex and social activities, they would neutralized in an instant
Not only them, everyone, even normalfags who come here would get banned for that. What is your point then? They are using wizchan the same way your beloved volcels are.
>and that's the key aspect in which these two groups differ.
Can't you see that the differences don't matter ? Both "groups" are virgins and can post here as much as they want if they just stick to the rules.
> I cannot speak for the admin's intentions but in all likelihood, the price for having a modicum of traffic on this website is being somewhat ambiguous about the site's actual values.
You are not reasoning well. You don't know the admin's intentions at all. This site's small traffic is not a result of an "ambiguity" on its values that allows crabs to post here like you mistakenly believe.
Why? Because erasing any ambiguity and making it clear who can post here or not MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. See, you already have the rules stating that you must be a male virgin to post here, but there's no possible way to enforce said rule so there can be succubi, nonvirgins, and normalfags posting here and you could do nothing about it as long as they follow the rules. Which I am sure many of them do.
Now let's say the admin adds a no crabs rule. Would that lower the site's traffic like you believe? Of course not. It'd be the same as if he implemented a No People Who Have Been Robbed rule. So that cannot be his intentions for this supposed ambiguity.
It's really common sense.
>We both feel pain when you punch us in the face, but we differ in one very crucial aspect, and that exactly our feelings and desires surrounding sex and social activities
Your sexuality as a biological male is the same as a crab, that's what I'm referring in my post, and if you were to post about your feelings that are a result from said sexuality on here you wold get banned for the same reasons lol. So volcel or not it should not matter if you stick to the rules.
Also, have you ever thought that in all likelihood, the volcels you praise and love so much are normalfags? I mean for anyone to be really volcel they need to be average or above average, and normalfags fit that category really well :)
once you are happy you stop being a wizard
>>229787>You are born with a certain level of happiness(feel good brain chemicals) and you will never be able to exceed that level. The best you can do is partake in activities or drugs that temporarily increase that base level of happiness. But once you stop doing those activities you are going to return to that baseline, which is no happiness
I think this is true and then we have to ask ourselves what causes these feel good brain chemicals to be released and why and what will result in the most chemicals being released the most often? If you believe in evolution then you have to concede that human brains and psychology evolved. We enjoy eating food for example because we need to do it in order to survive. The best feelings from consuming food come from eating things that over the hundreds of thousands of years we evolved were in short supply and most beneficial to us. Things like salt and sugar for example, meanwhile rotten things containing lots of bad bacteria that could make us sick taste and smell terrible to us to make us not consume them. A fat person can know logically that eating sugar is bad for him but the feeling comes from evolution so it will not change and will keep feeling good, only perhaps being counteracted by other higher level brain functions like shame that have also evolved to achieve beneficial outcomes.
Feelings, both good and bad are designed to steer people towards the behavior that has over time lead to reproductive success. Thousands of years ago this involved hunting and gathering and things like the runners high are residual pathways from that way of life. You have to ask yourself, what was the most essential for survival both in the distant past and in more recent millennia? I think one aspect that is vital is cooperation among a group. Acceptance within a social group would have been everything hundreds of thousands of years ago and it's even more so now. Without a tribe to help you hunt the mammoths, how could you take one down? What if they don't want to share their meat with you? You would die. So therefore, acceptance by the group is something that we evolved strong emotions around. Forming positive social relationships with others is highly pleasurable because that behavior is highly beneficial to your survival. The more friends you have in the tribe the more likely they are to support you in any conflicts. If there hasn't been a kill in a while and there's little meat to go around, the first guy to starve is going to be the guy with no friends. This is why succubi are attracted to popularity above all else. The higher your status is among the group, the better your reproductive outcomes (and life) will be.
This I think is the key to most of the suffering of wizards. For various reasons, most of us are social outcasts and/or low status. This state has evolved to bring suffering to those who are in it so that they will either A) be motivated to change or B)kill themselves and remove the weak link from the tribe. This part evolved because of competition for resources between groups. If one person is weak and unable to perform yet the group continues to provide resources to him, they will be weakened and other groups will be more able to take their resources and enslave them (slavery was the norm for most of human history). The more someone feels worthless and unable to contribute, or a drag on everyone else, the more depressed and suicidal they will become. In some cultures once people become too old to contribute they committed suicide sometimes assisted by family members. Because societies compete against one another and the reproductive outcomes of the members of those societies are dependent upon the outcome of those competitions, psychological mechanisms have evolved which benefit the group, not just the individual, suicide being just one of them.
Autism is also prevalent here and I think that plays a role. I have heard the theory that people with autism have brains that are more suited to primitive hunter-gatherer societies. Social relationships have gotten steadily more and more complex since the agricultural revolution and therefore it makes sense that there would be an evolutionary weapons race so to speak among people's brains to develop things that lead to better social outcomes. People with autism are missing those tools that most people have in their arsenal. Things like being able to read body language and emotions and to switch mental perspectives. Meanwhile they have other qualities that are beneficial to hunting and gathering like higher sensory perception and attention to small details, better memory, better ability to navigate in space, etc. If you're not running around all day tracking game and looking for berries and shit then you don't really need all that, but if everything in life is dependent upon your relationships with others (like your relationship with your employer/coworkers for example) you're gonna need all the social tools that they lack. Sometimes autism is accompanied by a decreased need for socialization to feel happy, but not always. Those who still need to feel accepted and have positive social relationships to feel happy but cannot get them will always remain cursed.
Another point that is obvious but important is that since reproductive outcomes are what drives evolution, things that involve sexual reproduction will of course release the most feel good brain chemicals. Sex itself is one of them, pair bonding, having children, etc. are others. For whatever reason, wizards are unable to achieve any of this yet so we will not be as happy as normies who do have those things. Personally I consciously know that pursuing a sexual partner would bring me large amounts of anxiety so I have no conscious desire to do it, but I still feel desire for companionship on an instinctive level and not having it makes me feel bad. I think something went wrong with my brain and there was a mutation which made me feel social anxiety too strong. A little is beneficial because it makes you conscious of how what you're saying might be perceived by others negatively and allows you to avoid saying things that could negatively impact social outcomes, but if it's too strong it can paralyze you and make you unable to interact normally like in my case.
In short, normalfags act like normalfags because that is what gives people the largest and most often releases of feel-good brain chemicals and not doing those things leads to feel-bad brain chemicals being released.
>>229944>For whatever reason, wizards are unable to achieve any of this yet so we will not be as happy as normies who do have those things.
The "yet" should not be in there. I was going to say something like "For whatever reason, wizards are unable to achieve any of this yet the evolved desires for it persist nonetheless" but I changed my mind and forgot to take out the yet.
You wrote well, this is how things are.
The rules give you a hint as to what kind of group this site caters to. It is pretty obvious wizchan isn't for in-cels because talking about wanting succubi and sex will get you banned.
Being a male virgin isn't enough, most male virgins in the world are in-cels, that is why this rule was made: to make it clear who doesn't belong here.>>229938> Both "groups" are virgins and can post here as much as they want if they just stick to the rules.
The rules, which forbid failed normals to express their true emotions, yes. But if said rule was removed your kind wouldn't hesitate to shit up wizchan with your r9k whining and tfwnogf posting. Just look at old wizarchan and v9k and see the difference for yourself, it was a joke. This site got much better, the quality skyrocketed since the no-in-cel posting rule was made. This is a fact.>Your sexuality as a biological male is the same as a crab, that's what I'm referring in my post, and if you were to post about your feelings that are a result from said sexuality on here you wold get banned for the same reasons
This isn't about sexuality, you inept moron. Nobody cares whether you are attracted to succubi or to guys or even to monkeys. What makes in-cels and volcels different is that volcels are content and happy with being a virgin, while in-cels hate being a virgin, they are ashamed of it because they are still thinking in normalfag values and can't understand how someone would choose the wiz life. Failed norms like you need sex and gfs not because of pleasure or biological needs but because you want to fit in and desperately want to be normal.> I mean for anyone to be really volcel they need to be average or above average, and normalfags fit that category really well
What in the world are you talking about? What average or above average? What the fuck?
Now answer me a couple of questions honestly:
1. Why does it bother you that some of us had succubi "drooling over us" as you said? I mean the important thing is that you refuse and ignore succubi, not the fact that you are unattractive or whatever. Being ugly or unattractive doesn't make you a wizard automatically.
2. Would you like to have a gf? Just answer honestly and see whether you belong here or not.
Good post anon, now wait till the autists with decreased socialization needs come lashing out on you and call you a normalfag lol
You come from an evolutionary and biological point of view, which self preservation is the grandest and final cause. Yet despite your long and admittedly very well written post you seem to forget the greatest evolutionary trait of humans, that of adaptation. Adaptation comes in many forms, one of which is tolerance. Your brain has limited amounts of feel good drugs, and will be ever increasingly stingy with the handouts it offers. Is it not true that those with everything you state to be what humans need, still end themselves or feel bitter out of sadness. Companionship and security which you consider to be key to feel good drugs, yet still it was not enough? What of those who are alone for decades and still continue living?
It's good that you understand that Wizchan rules haven nothing to do with being a wizard like you previously thought.
>wizchan isn't for crabs because talking about wanting succubi and sex will get you banned.
crabs are not the only ones who desire succubi or sex, volcels do too. Volcels might desire sex, succubi, and love even more than you think, but like everybody they can't post about it on here. Because of the rules you WILL NEVER KNOW what through the volcel mind. Lol You can only assume and guess.
> But if said rule was removed your kind wouldn't hesitate to shit up wizchan with your r9k whining and tfwnogf posting.
My kind? I don't know of any kind. I've known about r9k because of idiots like you who mention it to accuse people of being from there. I only learnt about memes like chad or crab, or tfwnogf because of wizchan too. Never have I made a tfwnogf post or thread, maybe a tfwno witchie to funpost lol.
>This isn't about sexuality, you inept moron
It is. Volcels might have made up their mind about not having sex or romantic relationships, but that doesn't mean they don't desire sex or have that want completely removed. They have to fight against their nature like every other normalfag like them who decides to practice sexual abstinence.
>What makes in-cels and volcels different is that volcels are content and happy with being a virgin,
How do you know every volcel is happy and content with being a virgin? What volcels do you know? How many? How can you prove he is a volcel and not a crab? just because he says he is volcel? lol
>while in-cels hate being a virgin, they are ashamed of it because they are still thinking in normalfag values and can't understand how someone would choose the wiz life. Failed norms like you need sex and gfs not because of pleasure or biological needs but because you want to fit in and desperately want to be normal.
So many assumptions. You don't even know me and never will. Unlike you I don't think males who have no success with succubi hate being virgins. They must end up hating themselves more than anything so they are pretty wizardly. They also might hate their sexual nature that makes them desire succubi too, which again, it is a pretty wizardly trait.
>Nobody cares whether you are attracted to succubi or to guys or even to monkeys.>Would you like to have a gf? Just answer honestly!
So you care then lol. But why do you want to discuss about that on wizchan when is against the rules? You are crab baiting the wrong way, you know? Make it less obvious, like you really care about the other person. There was a time where I used to ask people on here if they have had gfs or wanted to, and did it on their threads in /dep/, and many admitted to it and got their threads deleted. It was fun.
It'd be good for you if you stop caring about whether one is voluntarily celibate or not, when you have no way of knowing or proving this, specially on a site like Wizchan. You can't never know.
But I guess happy and content volcels normalfags like you still need someone to hate or make fun of or to feel superior to, and that's where this division of who can or cannot be a wizard comes from. It's all so silly.
> Being ugly or unattractive doesn't make you a wizard automatically.
What makes you a wizard automatically is being a virgin past the age of 30. Being a volcel has nothing to do with it lol.
>>229926>There are many more things that can make you weird in the eyes of people other than being a friendless virgin.
i'm talking about genuine weirdness not le quirky shit you see on social media
>Yes, many are like that. But not all
yeah they are, that's like one of the most basic sex differences.
>Just like how not every male is a testosterone-driven Chad who only thinks about pussy
lol do you even know what a chad is?
>Categorizing people based on their sex is just stupid
okay you actually might be a succubus at this point.
>I wonder which one of us has the herd-mentality really. Me, who actually had a chance to live as a normal but chose the wizard life or you, who didn't have a chance but wants to be a normalfag?
nothing you've posted so far remotely demonstrates that you belong here or that you live a "wizard life".
also:>Yes, it is amazing how this site turned from v9k "tfw nogf" bullshit into a site that bans people who mention having the desire to become a normal. You don't belong here.
lmao you are such an obvious outsider, it's hilarious. you move in, shit up and mutilate a site, and then claim the actual inhabitants dont belong.
You took the evopsych pill a bit too hard and you're ignoring that what differentiates people on an individual level is often learning, which isn't simply factual knowledge but unconscious, implicit knowledge which influences emotions and motivation.
Take any normalfag with a normal, baseline level of anxiety, supposedly the result of some gene, and then easily condition them to experience high levels of anxiety in crowds, be hypervigilant towards danger, be more submissive in social relationships and so on.
This too is the result of evolution, the ability to mold an organisms emotional and behavioral response through insight about the environment. That normalfag is living in a different world now, one characterized by danger, needing to submit to others and so on. This wasn't encoded in their genes because the world is too dynamic for that to be the case. Our early upbringing is what teaches us about how the world works and which emotions and behaviors are most adaptive to it.
So, I think what you're confusing is large, macro-level adaptation through millions of years and micro-adaptation that happens every day. The physiological response of fear might have evolved over millions of generations, but what you are afraid of is the result of experiential learning. Similarly, your sex drive is innate, but what you find sexually attractive is partially learned. How many examples of anons turning themselves gay through gradual exposure to different pornography?
>I consciously know that pursuing a sexual partner would bring me large amounts of anxiety so I have no conscious desire to do it, but I still feel desire for companionship on an instinctive level and not having it makes me feel bad
And this is the crab dilemma. How to get love, affection, intimacy etc. in a world that seems very cruel, unforgiving and dangerous. You naturally feel empty when you have chosen safety over your actual needs. The solution is to deal with the world and find you way in it so that you may satisfy those needs, rather than dissociating from them.
>>229944>slavery was the norm for most of human history
That's a big claim, can you provide a source for it? I've read quite a bit on anthropology and from what I've read nothing indicates this.
I think you're also overestimating the degree of competition between people and downplaying the degree of cooperation and its role in our evolution.
chin up man, dont let them get to you
*yawn*Could your post have been more typical
? It is the same old bullshit that is parroted on places like /pol/ and /r9k/. Endlessly. Typical Darwinian-perspective, typical collectivist-perspective, typically influenced by fake sciences like psychology.
OK, Professor. So enlighten us: how come people like me exist? I don't desire friends or social acceptance, I don't want any kind of relationship, whether sexual or otherwise. Oh, and I'm not autistic, you can't play that card on me. The only thing I got diagnosed as ever was depression (back when I was still a crab and took for granted the shit normals said, like you), then again everyone is considered to be depressed by norms if they don't want to do anything productive. Also, I like leeching off of society. What does this make me? (I suspect you will throw the evergreen "coping" card at me, but whatever.)
But returning to your post, this post is correct…if you think in normalfag values and normalfag perspective. However, it is not something I expected to see here of all places. How sad, indeed.
In short: take off those normalfag/crab lenses and try to think for yourself a little, without the bullshit society pushes onto you. Sheep.
I don't even know what you're trying to say here. People having the ability to adapt to things is totally beside my point. If you're trying to claim that it's impossible for some people to be happier than others because there's a limited amount of brain chemicals you're just wrong. That's clearly not how it works. As for why some people with companionship are unhappy and some lonely people are happy, well happiness is complex with many factors leading into it, you can't single out any one thing and expect it to be predictive for their overall happiness. >>230003
I don't discount the role of learning ie nurture on personality, it's beside my point. Certain things make us feel good, certain things make us feel bad. Those emotions themselves are things that we evolved because they impart survival/reproductive benefits. Take your example of someone being conditioned to fear crowds. If you have crowds of people attack someone until he fears crowds of people, then in order to avoid feeling fear he will avoid crowds thus avoiding the danger (assuming crowds really were dangerous to him anyway) and increasing his odds of survival.
We feel bad emotions when things that are bad for our survival or reproduction happen and good emotions when things that are good for our survival or reproduction happen. The emotions modulate our behavior as we seek to avoid experiencing unpleasant emotions and seek out positive ones. Humans are primarily driven by instincts and emotions, not logic and reason. We don't learn which emotions to experience but rather how to think and behave in order to experience the emotions that we want to experience.
Wizards live lives that don't lead to good reproductive outcomes (and historically would not have lead to good survival outcomes either, not a lot of neets in the past) therefore we are on average less happy than those who live lives that do lead to good reproductive outcomes. Anyone remember that thread where someone posted a list of all the happiest experiences of someone's life and it was all stuff related to romance, marriage, children etc? It's no secret that some things make people happier than others and I don't think it's controversial to say most of us are simply not doing those things, I was just trying to explain why it is that a wizard life usually leads to unhappiness like OP asked. I have long asked myself where emotions come from and why we have them and only the theory of evolution has consistently provided explanations that make sense to me. >>230037
Why don't you tell me why you don't need the things most people need to be happy? I don't even know you how should I know why you're different or if you're just coping or whatever. OP clearly is not happy along with everyone else on this board and I was answering his question not trying to cater to you. Honestly if you're so damn happy why do you post here? This board is not for you.
>>230045>Certain things make us feel good, certain things make us feel bad.
Right, but my point was that this wasn't completely innate. Danger will always bring about anxiety (as it should), but what constitutes "danger" is mailable and learned through experience. Similarly, "safety" and "survival" is also learned through experience, observing that your parents bring you food so you should stick close to them and so on. Children that are shunned in their early life will exhibit a schizoid or anxious pattern of relating to others. Your idea that we evolved to always cooperate and stay close to the group is a broad pattern in human behavior, but almost certainly isn't innate (consider what happens to "feral children", an extreme example, but showcases that learning is essential).
>We feel bad emotions when things that are bad for our survival or reproduction happen and good emotions when things that are good for our survival or reproduction happen
What is "good" and "bad" in the world cannot be encoded completely in genes. The environment is entirely too complex for adaptation to be this rigged. Consider something like video games, why does it feel good to press a bunch of buttons and look at light change on a monitor? How is that good for survival? These are completely artificial and abstract goals that have nothing to do with either survival or reproduction and yet the good AND bad emotions that come from video games are experienced by many people and are very real.
Explain to me, why do people get excited about PIXELS? It's learning. You care about the outcome of something (even if its entirely abstract), you observe that it is going well through complex cues i.e. mario does a bing wahoo and your points increase, and your brain makes you feel good. The person didn't put his dick in a vagina, his Super Mario score isn't going to get him laid or bring up his status in the hunter-gatherer group, and yet it still triggers feel good chemicals? What's up with that?
The point is, not being married, or socially popular, or having a lot of sex, won't make you feel good or bad, unless you actually care about such things. Care comes prior to the actual feelings, through some kind of previous learning, then your brain can compare your desired state with the current state of the world and give feedback in the form of positive/negative affect.
>>I consciously know that pursuing a sexual partner would bring me large amounts of anxiety so I have no conscious desire to do it, but I still feel desire for companionship on an instinctive level and not having it makes me feel bad
You feel bad because you're receiving feedback about the current state of your goals. Say you see a couple in the park walking while holding hands and you instantly feel a pang of hurt inside you - what is the stimuli that caused this? Nothing, it was self-inflicted, there was an error between the desired, preferred state of being and what reality is currently being perceived i.e. you being alone, this is experienced as negative affect. Positive affect is similar, you bet big on a slot machine and it goes CHACHING and starts raining cash on you - the desired state was achieved and you know this by interpreting the cue the machine gives.
Now, I'll give a more complex example. Consider /dep/ and the many anons that post these giant tributes to pessimism and nihilism, presumably they feel something good when they actually spend so much time doing it. In that case, the person's desired state is actually one where the world is actually a bad place, meaningless, evil and so on, and they actively seek to confirm this point of view because it's actually rewarding paradoxically. A normal person would be like, no that's horrible and try to find any reason for hope and so on, and they would find it rewarding to do the opposite. Whether the person receives positive or negative affect is dependent on what the person cares about, what his goals and desired state is, rather than some innate monkey shit like "sex good" and "survival good".
>>230045>you're just wrong. That's clearly not how it works.
That is not an adequate response to tolerance limiting the amount or sensitivity one can have in regards to "feel good drugs", thus making the pursuit of it a waste of time. I do in fact deny your definition of happiness being security and companionship, because I believe "happiness" is a temporary thing relative to other time periods. After a larger release of chemicals the brain will eventually become depressed at the lack of sensitivity if the released continues, or from the amount of chemicals released if it were to slow down. This is caused by tolerance and one can see if play out rapidly in the manic depressive types or drug abusers. There is a reason why the humans have a never ending hunger for more in everything.
>well happiness is complex
Is it not that in your previous post you agreed that happiness is just feel good drugs, that they are provided by companionship and security; and that is why autists and wizards suffer while normalfags act the way they do? Yet why do you now say that happiness is a complex thing that cannot be specified?
Not who you are replying to but sex/drugs and security/companionship are completely different and incomparable. If you think drugs that can give you a sustainable amount of happiness over a long time then you are either underage or very misinformed about drugs and sex. As for>>230045 anon is giving way too much credit and meaning towards romance marriage and children as it's pretty evident that neither of this things lead to long term happiness. Almost every married normalfag wants to divorce eventually and I'd say their happiness levels are almost comparable to another normalfag who is not married but is doing something more meaningful and has a sense of community
>>230064>If you think drugs that can give you a sustainable amount of happiness
Emit the that
, sry I'm so retarded these days
Of course no advice would ever help, because you're not looking for advice, you're looking for a hugbox. You will simply shrug any advice as something that doesn't help / is not feasible / doesn't get who you are / normalfaggotry.
/dep/ wizards don't want help, not really, I realized this a long time ago.
>>230064>Not who you are replying to but sex/drugs and security/companionship are completely different and incomparable
I never said that. Who are you arguing with?>If you think drugs that can give you a sustainable amount of happiness over a long time
Try actually reading my post before making a reply. Truly I am tired of people such as yourself, too lazy to even read yet have the will to write and reply. I cannot comprehend it. Here I will quote it for you "That is not an adequate response to tolerance limiting the amount or sensitivity one can have in regards to feel good drugs, ~~~WOW EPIC->thus making the pursuit of it a waste of time<-WOW EPIC~~~", it was the FIRST fucking line so it's understandable that someone like yourself would have missed it. Even after that I said "because I believe happiness is a temporary thing relative to other time periods.", so you didn't read the first sentence nor anything else. Kill yourself.
You were obviously lumping companionship/sense of community alongside actual feel good drugs and I was pointing out how ridiculous that was
nah he has a point with some things. honestly you just come off as an annoying succubus trying to larp as a wizard.
I was obviously doing something that I was not? So you are now stating you truly know what my intentions were, better than myself? Even though you were not even competent enough to read a single paragraph? Sorry, you weren't even competent enough to read the first sentence. How would you know when you never read what I wrote? Did it ever occur to you that maybe you just didn't put any effort into reading, and then came up with an imaginary strawman because your DIDN'T READ? The only "obvious" thing here is your lack of basic thought capacity, as well as your non-existent reading comprehension.
>>230051>That is not an adequate response to tolerance limiting the amount or sensitivity one can have in regards to "feel good drugs", thus making the pursuit of it a waste of time. I do in fact deny your definition of happiness being security and companionship, because I believe "happiness" is a temporary thing relative to other time periods. After a larger release of chemicals the brain will eventually become depressed at the lack of sensitivity if the released continues, or from the amount of chemicals released if it were to slow down. This is caused by tolerance and one can see if play out rapidly in the manic depressive types or drug abusers. There is a reason why the humans have a never ending hunger for more in everything.
That's very wrong, non drug induced dopamine release does not cause tolerance/downregulation, that's why behavioral addictions like food, video games, porn, gambling, etc, are far more addicting than drugs, you can feel pleasure from them for basically forever in a healthy brain. Manic depressives are obviously mentally ill, there is some genetic or neuronal defect that makes them swing from manic to depression, it's not because of tolerance/downregulation rather some unknown mechanism. >>230048>Now, I'll give a more complex example. Consider /dep/ and the many anons that post these giant tributes to pessimism and nihilism, presumably they feel something good when they actually spend so much time doing it. In that case, the person's desired state is actually one where the world is actually a bad place, meaningless, evil and so on, and they actively seek to confirm this point of view because it's actually rewarding paradoxically. A normal person would be like, no that's horrible and try to find any reason for hope and so on, and they would find it rewarding to do the opposite. Whether the person receives positive or negative affect is dependent on what the person cares about, what his goals and desired state is, rather than some innate monkey shit like "sex good" and "survival good".
I can relate to this, when I was hospitalized for psychosis and I told my doctor I was a hiki/neet high school drop out, the first thing he told me was "I'll be honest, when I see people like you they almost never get better, only worse, many people like you end up homeless or addicted to drugs", why he thought telling me this was a good idea I have no idea, maybe he wanted to convince me to get take his big pharma zombie causing antipsychotics. I guess it could be possible he was lying but I doubt it. Anyways, when he told me that I obviously felt depressed but I also felt relieved, in a way it confirmed that my problems were not my fault and were predestined to happen and never improve.
Now you are just trying to insult me in every way you can. Parse That is not an adequate response to tolerance limiting the amount or sensitivity one can have in regards to "feel good drugs"
as I have clearly misunderstood this sentence, what did you mean by feel good drugs
Well I am glad you can at least comprehend that I was insulting you, baby steps anon.
Nice deflection, the anon you replied to with the sentence I quoted never mentioned drugs, so you can't disprove my point huh
>>230045>Why don't you tell me why you don't need the things most people need to be happy?
Because the "happiness" society tries to offer us is a lie and fake. They tell children this dogmatic crap that you need others in order to be happy, you need someone who is willing to fuck with you and offer you emotional support (until he or she gets bored of you and dumps you for someone else), that you need to make children (as if having children brings anyone genuine joy), that you absolutely need to compete with other males for the attention of succubi and succubi are the greatest good in life. Hmph, really you would think anyone with a single drop of self-awareness would see through this.
I had friends when I was a young and inexperienced kid because it was taught to me by society that you need to have friends. But after I matured a little I realized friends are undependable and completely unreliable. Having friends doesn't better your chances at survival, it makes you more vulnerable if anything. And I was always the solitary type by nature so I got rid of my friends in the end.
As for sex and succubi, after you shed society's values and dogmas you can see clearly that it is better not to associate with them. Almost every murder or violence is because of them and they have nothing to offer besides their bodies. If anything, they just suck out your energy and resources while most likely plotting how to get a better boyfriend. Most men get more pain and suffering from succubi than joy, they are just afraid of confessing this because then society will shit on them in order to uphold the sacred lies that make society function.
This is all fucking ridiculous. The only reasons normals are more happy than your average wiz are:
1. Ignorance and complete lack of self-awareness
2. Fake it till you feel it (lots of them aren't happy at all, they only feel the need to show it to others how happy they are)
3. Your average wiz is actually a normalfag who couldn't make it but still cares about normalfag values and expectations
So what is the lesson for today, kids?
1. Ignore society and what it says about anything.
2. Make up your own values.
3. Investigate things for yourself and draw your own conclusions.
4. Only care about sexuality for those 20 minutes you jerk off every other day.
5. Friends are for retards. (Get a pet seriously, if you desire company so much.)
6. Discover what makes you happy in life instead of being envious of normals and trying to be one.
7. Life is only a competition if you view it as one.
>Honestly if you're so damn happy why do you post here? This board is not for you.
I do get depressed from time to time, though not for the reasons your kind does. My depression and lethargy are related more to the fact that my NEETing has to end someday and that I will be forced to interact with this boring, shitty, pathetic society again instead of leaving everything to my parents.>>230039
It all comes down to indoctrination at the end of the day. How you brainwash people when they are children is a crucial factor. They need to believe that they must be useful to the herd, that they must care about its values and that they must play the game, even if they derive no joy from it whatsoever.
What point was that? That you lack reading comprehension? Or is the point that you mistake me insulting your lack of intellect, laziness, and not wanting to honestly engage with you as some sort of a sign of debate victory? That would be rather pathetic if so, but I suppose I wouldn't put it past a man of your nature.
My point being that you're one of the above all humans
anons who cannot fathom the fact that companionship and security might be beneficial for those who are unhappy, for the kind like OP and others in similar situation. And also the fact that you reduced these puny
needs which are obviously beneficial for survival(maybe for you cuz not everyone is the same, but I don't care) alongside feel good drugs
maybe not for you*
Has your imaginary debate partner become a full blown tulpa yet anon? If so then you can stop replying to my posts with irrelevant thoughts that have nothing to do with me.
>>230098>food, video games, porn, gambling, etc, are far more addicting than drugs
Fits so perfectly. Although I think that Peterson does all this not to rebel, but to exploit and profit from it.
>>230148>kids should just go play outside, like real men
No. Fuck off with this idiot.
I don't get why so many wizzies are fascinated by Ted when he basically says you shouldn't spend so much time on the computer and instead go hunt boars and fuck succubi all day.
would you rather fuck boars all day?
I don't like succubi at all, your mother included.
what about yourself though?
That is because they are most likely not genuine wizzies, only cross-posters and tourists.
Or they are just fucking retarded and idealize a lifestyle that is too alien to them. You know, the grass is greener on the other side and all that. Just like how most /pol/posters live in democracies and idealize fascism and say they would like to live in an authoritarian society.
Why make inflammatory comments about things that you know nothing about? To troll? It's clear you have read hardly anything about him or his philosophy. Look at how he actually lived. Was he fucking succubi all day? No, he was isolated in nature. And he advised to strike back at society. Your claim is simply 100% wrong.
We are a product of this sick, industrialised wageslave society. The way primitive people lived is irrelevant to what we ourselves want, even if you think that society would be better if people were fucking succubi all day and hunting boars. We would be different people if born in such a different society. Further, that isn't even a correct description of primitive society. As introverts in a society without today's sick technologies we could be alone and free in nature.
Many introverted, open-minded people that want to retreat from society are interested in Ted and his ideas. It has nothing to do with being a virgin.
For crabs, they may be addicted to technology and dislike how they became a shut-in degenerate. In which case it still can make sense to agree with Ted's criticisms of the sick technological society that creates crabs.
>>230210> sick technological society that creates crabs
Industrialisation didn't create crabs. There have always been crabs. They're merely an unfortunate consequence of female sexual selection. The best you could possibly say about pre-industrial civilisation is that it tended to kill them off quicker.
I mean the more specific type of modern computer crab
I'm afraid I don't see how it's possible to accurately predict whether they'd be more or less likely to succeed in a pre-industrial society.
Crabs are miserable; Kaczynski provides them with a reason. You see, they "Just [weren't] Made for These Times." In fact, no one quite was really.
It's a whole lot more comfortable to believe that civilisation itself is broken than that you are.
they've dramatically increased in number in recent years. just like the modern hikki phenomenon, wizards, and other so-called "loser" male outcasts. female sexual selection was largely irrelevant until now.
It's hard to be happy since we get shit on in life and know the truth about how superficial and two-faced people are in life. Our copes wear off and we're left with the abyss-like emptiness and loneliness we'll end up dying with in the end.
I dont understand your way of thinking at all.
What does "succeed" mean? It has nothing to do with it.
> In fact, no one quite was really.
Then you agree with Ted….
>>230231> I don't understand your way of thinking at all.
I'm unsurprised. Being moderately autistic, it's a constant struggle for me to communicate clearly. I often fail to do so.
> What does "succeed" mean?
The word "succeed" was perhaps a poor choice as it carries with it a connotation of standards imposed by others. I was referring to a net reduction in suffering. With regard to crabs, I think we're all aware of their ostensible prerequisite.
> Then you agree with Ted
It's undeniable that civilisation, much less industrial civilisation
, has not existed long enough for human evolution to properly compensate. I'm just not convinced that everyone who is depressed, unhappy, or otherwise suffering would fare better if we all went back to being nomadic hunter-gatherers.
>>230232>I'm just not convinced that everyone who is depressed, unhappy, or otherwise suffering would fare better if we all went back to being nomadic hunter-gatherers.
Because they wouldn't. They would suffer and die, and then the subsequent much smaller group of people who were born independent of industrial society would fare better.
Agreed; but, I don't know what would prevent another industrial revolution from eventually occurring. Maybe if we'd already exhausted all of the readily accessible fossil fuels it couldn't happen again.
That's what being "free in nature" means, my guy. It means having to hunt boars all day. As for fucking succubi, technology doesn't change the reality of reproduction or your own psychological need for it. If you need companionship today, you'd almost certainly need it in a primitive society, especially since it would be that much more difficult to be self-sufficient.
There's no better time than the current modern time to be alive as a introverted, solitary person that has no desire for sex. It seems it's just another crab fantasy that if only circumstances were different, if only they were born in another time, they'd be engaging in the power process instead of jerking it to hentai.
Is it possible that if the world was different, you wouldn't be a mentally ill loser? Maybe. But you could say the same about just having different parents or not having that embarrassing incident in middle school or 9/11 not occurring.
>>230235>especially since it would be that much more difficult to be self-sufficient.
You've got that one wrong. It's impossible to be self sufficient only in modern society. In a primitive society, you can quite literally wander into the woods and "kill boars" and forage berries. Today, you'll get arrested or starve after you realize there's only very few wild edible foods left and fewer wild animals.
In modern society you are always dependent on other people- for your job, or social programs, or upkeeping the roads, or keeping up the food supply chain, or trusting them not to poison the water supply, &c.
You realize you could just grow your own food and have pigs and live of the grid completely on a farm, almost with no compromise towards modern quality of life? You could even trade certain items with your neighbors. And then, if god forbid, you get bit by some rabid animal, the hospital is still an option.
Your definition of self-sufficiency is too extreme. Society is unlikely to collapse and if it did, your natural habitat would likely be affected as well. Society is more reliable than nature, that's for sure.
>>230222> female sexual selection was largely irrelevant until now
I'll acknowledge that's a fair point; however, male social capital does
appear to be a decent proxy variable for sex appeal.
You don't really understand. You cannot live entirely off grid anymore. Even if you were to purchase land somewhere in the middle of nowhere, you're going to have to come up with money to pay taxes on it or FEDs will come for you. If you want to have animals, you'll have to pass a bunch of animal safety inspections, if you want to kill them you have to beware that feds might snatch you for cruelty. If you want to go hunting, you might be arrested for accidentally waltzing on someone else's property. Then again, you may just get imminent domained. You can't legally collect rainwater even in much of the united states. Much of the river systems are poisoned with toxic waste due to the sheer amount of humans that are alive and tossing garbage and other chemicals in them. Mandates on non-commercial freshwater use for agricultural purposes might make your little farm illegal. You can even be arrested and imprisoned now for killing a bear with a spear, and I believe bow hunting is also illegal in many places now.
Just ignoring all of this, where can you go that you won't be influenced or affected by the literal billions of other people in this world? Technology has made it possible to keep so many people alive and connect them so tightly that decisions around the world will inevitably affect everyone else. You cannot escape it. An insult from one ambassador to another may end up raining nuclear fire upon your head, and technology is the reason that's possible.
You may be able to say "well back then randos might come across you!" or "kingdoms and stuff mandated laws and waged war too!" but I think you'd realize that that's really reaching and 90% of people, especially those living in uninhabited areas could live and die with no contact with the rest of the world.
Ted tried to do that but society makes it impossible. Even after a PhD and searching for a good place for a cabin he was always affected by annoying neighbours etc. In earlier eras it was actually not that hard to be a loner or at least just have an isolated farm. Now at the least you need a huge amount of money and to be born in the right country>>230244
Then why not advocate for minarchism and taking down regulation and the federal government? That seems more probable than the entirety of society jumping back to the stone age.
Seems like your problem is with the government and not technology per se. If you didn't need to pay taxes and could do as you pleased, no one would bother you on your farm.
That won't solve the problem. Everyone and everything at every level is highly connected because of technology. Reducing the direct power of a government will just mean that some other organization will take its place in making decisions that impact your life.>If you didn't need to pay taxes and could do as you pleased, no one would bother you on your farm.
8 billion people, competing world governments, and changing administrations could. Technology is the thing that allows these organizations to project their force across the globe and make decisions that impact everyone. Reducing regulations would likely make things worse- pollution of all kinds would increase rapidly, corporations would take most or all land, and it wouldn't even solve issues of reliance on society. You would become more at the mercy of profiteering entities or foreign governments.
Oh, fuck off please. In a primitive society you would be tortured to death by Chad and his friends for fun, just because there would be no one to stop them. It wouldn't benefit socially inept and weak people at all, we would be the first ones to die horrible deaths.
Getting sick? Good luck bro, suffer all you want because no one will help you!
Getting bullied by others? (Talking about serious, physical bullying. Not the verbal kind.) Good luck, no police to protect your sorry ass, because you decided that modern society and its institutions are harmful because they don't let you hunt deer freely.
Getting bored with nothing to do except survival? Well, good luck because you hated and abolished the technology that made it possible for you to indulge in escapism. Go watch the fucking cows for entertainment.
Getting horny? Too bad, you can't watch porn and can't jerk off freely because the "evil" technology is no more! Have fun getting killed by Chad and his buddies while trying to rape some slut because of sexual frustration. (And no, you won't magically become Chad because no technology exists, you would still be a weak faggot who would be on the bottom of the food-chain.)
Getting cold? Getting hungry? No industrialization for you, jerk. Freeze and starve to death.
Seriously, you anti-technology Ted fanboy faggots are some of the most deluded idiots that exist on Earth. Why do you use the Internet, then? Huh, motherfucker? After all, nothing else like the internet to connect people and that is what you hate most of all, right? Get rid of your computer, too. Your TV too. In fact, go and play in the woods a little, play the homeless guy who wants to try the survival game - you won't, not because of the laws like you claim but because you would run home to mommy like a bitch crying when the first bug bit you. Most of you Ted-fags are bored middle-class faggots from the West who don't know how to spend their fucking free time because you live in so much luxury that you can't realize it. So instead of occupying yourself with something enjoyable and pleasurable you decide to get rid of "luxury" altogether. Fuck. You.
It's been repeated many times but I will say it again:
- There was never as good an age as ours for NEETs and wizards.
- Wizards and NEETs inherently need society and depend on it for survival. Hermits can't survive alone. Period.
>For crabs, they may be addicted to technology
Again, if you have a problem with it, then stop using it. Now.>dislike how they became a shut-in degenerate
Oh yeah, sorry I forgot you Ted-fags were norms in wizard clothes. If you hate being a "shut-in degenerate" then you are better off elsewhere. Kill yourself.
I think this article touches on some things that are relevant to this discussion, specifically point #2. https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-10-02/the-five-real-conspiracies-you-need-to-know-about/
Here are a few excerpts>In the 1920s, two ruthless men laid out a sinister scheme to gain control of the minds of Americans. Their plan? To identify people’s deeply buried needs and use subtle messaging to manipulate them into doing whatever they wanted without realizing it—even at the cost of their health and well-being. One of them, Edward Bernays, was Sigmund Freud’s nephew and used his uncle’s insights into the subconscious to develop his new methods. Their goal was to turn normal working Americans into manic consumers, training them to desire an ever-increasing amount of goods, and thereby converting their life’s energy into profit for American corporations. “We must shift America from a needs to a desires culture,” declared Bernays’ partner, Paul Mazur. “People must be trained to desire, to want new things, even before the old have been entirely consumed. We must shape a new mentality. Man’s desires must overshadow his needs.”
…>Corporations have perfected the technique of mind control by tweaking core human instincts that originally evolved to support our ancestors’ flourishing in hunter-gatherer bands—such as the desire for status or fear of exclusion—for their nefarious purposes.
…>A new generation of mind controllers are now using sophisticated data mining technologies to inject their power even deeper into our minds. At the ominously named Stanford Persuasive Technology Lab, a modern-day Bernays named B. J. Fogg has taught budding entrepreneurs how to use “hot triggers” such as thumbs-up signs and “Like” statistics to activate short hits of dopamine in our brains that literally get us addicted to our screens. With social media now infiltrating every aspect of many teenagers’ lives, the power of predatory corporate advertising to control their minds for profit has become even more formidable. In 2017, a leaked document revealed Facebook boasting to advertisers how they can identify in real time when teenagers feel “insecure” and “worthless,” and would be most susceptible to a “confidence boost.”
The social facts that exert influence on people have been intentionally manipulated over time to benefit the capitalist interests who hold power. Even things like identity and self esteem are things that can be packaged and sold to people. The more empty they feel inside the more they will be left seeking the hits of dopamine that the capitalists provide.
The normal ways of life that developed over thousands of years were destroyed by capitalism and industrialization. Life used to take real work just to survive and people did that work together in family units and no one questioned their identity or their purpose. People had ancestral land with tales of their past that gave them a sense of identity. There were roles that had developed over thousands of years that anyone could assume to become a member of the community, often guided by their family generation after generation specializing in the same craft. Life was steady and predictable until disaster struck and then you were in a scramble for your life.
Now no one has ancestral land because the mega-farms with the latest and greatest capital outcompeted them. Home manufacturing that used to provide people with income was outcompeted too by the factories so people had no choice but to move to the cities to find work in those factories. Instead of doing a bunch of things with their family and community to survive people specialized and did one thing over and over and the market provided the rest. There were so many goods available on the market that anyone who earned enough could have a comfortable life so everyone strove to earn more money and improve their lot in life, but with every technological gizmo that made it easier to survive, people's lives became emptier and more purposeless.
This too was exploited by the capitalists as they sold wage-slavery as the thing that would give you your identity and your purpose in life. The only relationship that mattered anymore became the employer employee relationship because as long as you have money you can get anything you could ever need or want, but if you don't have money than you will lose your house, your car, your identity, even the ability to put food on the table for your family. This has made the perfect carrot and stick system to control and manipulate people, to make them obedient slaves to anyone with money. People are constantly constrained by these forces. Take for example a rude customer. The normal reaction would be to tell the person to fuck off, but all the weight of these things, the house, the car etc constrain the person to act in a way that is unnatural. This is one example of how oversocialization makes people unhappy.
I look at a country like South Korea and it just seems fucking dark. The pressure to conform to ideals is just out of control. People make their kids study for hours and hours and people work like dogs at their companies doing overtime and people are extremely materialistic. Their whole lives are controlled by the capitalist machine to make them the perfect worker-consumers and they are fucking miserable. It's not much better in most places.
It seems you all want to avoid the elephant in the room talking about "natural", "instinct". The definite common elements that led humans where it is today is survival and …?
What the heck are you on about? I think you've actually gone bonkers, and you don't sound like a wizard to me.
First of all, the majority of everyone, including wizards, would not survive the initial transition into a primitive society. Most people, including wizards, were conditioned to be dependent on industrial society. After they die off, what remains are people that can survive and the children that will not be conditioned their whole lives to be dependent on that society.
Most importantly though, your entire post just REEKS of "I NEVER READ INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY AND ITS FUTURE" so correct me if I'm wrong. Quite literally everything from your post is addressed in the book and you still managed to waste your time posting basically three paragraphs of utter shite.>Seriously, you anti-technology Ted fanboy faggots are some of the most deluded idiots that exist on Earth. Why do you use the Internet, then? Huh, motherfucker? After all, nothing else like the internet to connect people and that is what you hate most of all, right? Get rid of your computer, too. Your TV too. In fact, go and play in the woods a little, play the homeless guy who wants to try the survival game>>For crabs, they may be addicted to technology>Again, if you have a problem with it, then stop using it. Now.
All of this is addressed in the book doubly so. One of the themes is that no matter what you cannot escape technology as long as industrial society exists. Ted even explained why it is he still used technology. Why are you even posting when you have no idea what you're talking about? It's like you watched a documentary and came back pretending you're an expert. Go back and read the book, and rewrite a whole new post.
You will likely lose a lot or everything unless you are already extremely independent of the system i.e. you need medication, you don't already have property and the ability to grow your own food etc. But the ideology is inherently altruistic because the idea is that while you are causing great suffering to the people alive today, the people who live freed of industrial society and its conditioning will be much happier.
For you, the hope is that you are preparing for primitivism so that you can be one of the people that live happier.>>230313>and who is to say that they won't achieve a similar level of our current society again in time
Nobody. But it did take over 50,000 years for it to happen the first time, depending on how you measure humanity and society.
>>230312>I think you've actually gone bonkers, and you don't sound like a wizard to me.
Not an argument.>"I NEVER READ INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY AND ITS FUTURE"
I didn't, what is your problem? I can still call out a dumb ideology for being dumb without reading up extensively on it. If you think you can offer counter-arguments then do so, otherwise fuck off.>Most people, including wizards, were conditioned to be dependent on industrial society.
And why is this bad, again? The majority of people don't want to live like fucking cavemen in the wilderness, conditioning or not. You know why? Simply because it would bring us more pain and suffering. There is a reason industrial society came into being. There is a reason technology was developed. Both were created for the sake of lessening pain and suffering.>One of the themes is that no matter what you cannot escape technology as long as industrial society exists. Ted even explained why it is he still used technology.
Haha! Yeah, I'm sure he could explain why he was a hypocrite faggot, the same way hypocrites in general can explain why they continually do things that are direct opposite of what they preach.
This 'you cannot escape technology' bullshit is just another excuse. What stops you from going off-line? What stops you from living as a homeless bum in the wilderness like many homeless people do. Excuses, faggot. Excuses.
I'm going to spoon-feed you because I feel kind of bad for you. I'm not going to lie though, your post was a bit funny.
I'll begin with a smaller one:>What stops you from going off-line? What stops you from living as a homeless bum in the wilderness like many homeless people do.
This isn't the point. Even if you were to 'live as a homeless bum in the wilderness' you wouldn't have escaped technology or its effects. The problem is that you really don't understand the point of this sort of ideology and you think it's all about "I don't like technology, it's the reason I'm so fucked up!!!!" and that's not it at all. Nobody is in the end forced to use technology, but it will
be forced upon you, either through the actions of others, the effects of industrial society on the environment, or the the way that regulations will be enforced.
If one were to live as a homeless bum, you would certainly not be able to live without technology. Imagine an average day of a homeless bum and please explain how it is without technology? How would you even manage to find “wilderness” that is unregulated? If you were to go to a public park you would be subjected to technology every day. Most parks are not large, and a 10 minute jog will lead you straight into city. On the off chance that you manage to find some large swath of “wilderness” it will either be government property in which it is illegal to grow food, hunt, cut down trees, construct buildings, or start fires(for warmth and cooking purposes). Assuming you found private land, you wouldn’t have managed anything but putting yourself at the mercy of another agent of industrial society. The moment that person changes their mind about your residence there, or perhaps if they die or something or another you will have to leave and become once again subjected to industrial society.
By and large, the outcome of almost any real attempt to live a primitive lifestyle will result in the same recurring theme: you would be found on short notice, arrested, jailed, and subjected to far greater levels of technology and industrial society than you would had you stayed in your room all day.
Also, to quote Ted Kaczynski:>P. 73…Legally there is nothing to prevent us from going to live in the wild like primitive people or from going into business for ourselves. But in practice there is very little wild country left, and there is room in the economy for only a limited number of small business owners.
Throughout the rest of the book he explains the reasons why simply escaping technology isn’t enough
and why the abolition of industrial society is necessary to re-establish the freedoms of primitive society.
Now, all of this will lead you to believe that issue is technology itself, which isn’t the case. There is nothing wrong with each individual piece of technology on its own. There’s nothing wrong with something like a phone, a car, air conditioning, et cetera. Nobody except as you say “deluded” people are going to think that air conditioning just on its own is bad; The issue is with industrial society and its effects.
It’s a complex topic to explain just here; you will honestly have to read Ted Kaczynski’s book to have a full understanding of the topic, as the entire book is the shortest amount of words it takes to rationally convince someone of what I am telling you now. (It’s also very, very short and you can read it in a couple of hours and still retain all the information fully. Seriously read it so you stop making these accidental false assumptions) However, I do have a video that I found just for you which outlines why individual technologies are not bad on their own, but technology as a whole is bad, and I’ve embedded it.
The guy looks like a 4chad but his video is really good. His topic is on roads, but it applies to all technology in general. A quick look at his channel shows that he seems to be an unironic “kaczynskist”
Now, I will address another one of your points:>And why is this bad, again? The majority of people don't want to live like fucking cavemen in the wilderness, conditioning or not. You know why? Simply because it would bring us more pain and suffering. There is a reason industrial society came into being. There is a reason technology was developed. Both were created for the sake of lessening pain and suffering.
Here you make another fatal assumption built purely because you don’t really understand the motivation behind this ideology. The issue is that YES each individual technology does reduce suffering in some way, but that the effect of technology as a whole causes more suffering than is cured. It is already well known that suicide rates in developed countries are higher than those of poor countries, and that tendency is directly correlated with access to industrialization.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2210600616300430
This is outlined in ISaiF. Although I'd rather not give a gigantic quote, I'm going to have to because if I don't you'll just use that as your "gotcha!" in the next post. Here you go:
[continued in the next post]
>>230338>>230357>169. … The system has already caused, and is continuing to cause, immense suffering all over the world. Ancient cultures, that for hundreds of years gave people a satisfactory relationship with each other and with their environment, have been shattered by contact with industrial society, and the result has been a whole catalogue of economic, environmental, social and psychological problems. One of the effects of the intrusion of industrial society has been that over much of the world traditional controls on population have been thrown out of balance. Hence the population explosion, with all that that implies. Then there is the psychological suffering that is widespread throughout the supposedly fortunate countries of the West (see paragraphs 44, 45). No one knows what will happen as a result of ozone depletion, the greenhouse effect and other environmental problems that cannot yet be foreseen. And, as nuclear proliferation has shown, new technology cannot be kept out of the hands of dictators and irresponsible Third World nations. Would you like to speculate about what Iraq or North Korea will do with genetic engineering? >170. "Oh!" say the technophiles, "Science is going to fix all that! We will conquer famine, eliminate psychological suffering, make everybody healthy and happy!" Yeah, sure. That's what they said 200 years ago. The Industrial Revolution was supposed to eliminate poverty, make everybody happy, etc. The actual result has been quite different. The technophiles are hopelessly naive (or self-deceiving) in their understanding of social problems. They are unaware of (or choose to ignore) the fact that when large changes, even seemingly beneficial ones, are introduced into a society, they lead to a long sequence of other changes, most of which are impossible to predict (paragraph 103). The result is disruption of the society. So it is very probable that in their attempts to end poverty and disease, engineer docile, happy personalities and so forth, the technophiles will create social systems that are terribly troubled, even more so than the present once. For example, the scientists boast that they will end famine by creating new, genetically engineered food plants. But this will allow the human population to keep expanding indefinitely, and it is well known that crowding leads to increased stress and aggression. This is merely one example of the PREDICTABLE problems that will arise. We emphasize that, as past experience has shown, technical progress will lead to other new problems that CANNOT be predicted in advance (paragraph 103). In fact, ever since the Industrial Revolution, technology has been creating new problems for society far more rapidly than it has been solving old ones. Thus it will take a long and difficult period of trial and error for the technophiles to work the bugs out of their Brave New World (if they every do). In the meantime there will be great suffering. So it is not at all clear that the survival of industrial society would involve less suffering than the breakdown of that society would. Technology has gotten the human race into a fix from which there is not likely to be any easy escape.
Here are the paragraphs 44 and 45 that he mentioned:>44. But for most people it is through the power process having a goal, making an AUTONOMOUS effort and attaining the goal – that self-esteem, self-confidence and a sense of power are acquired. When one does not have adequate opportunity to go through the power process the consequences are (depending on the individual and on the way the power process is disrupted) boredom, demoralization, low self-esteem, inferiority feelings, defeatism, depression, anxiety, guilt, frustration, hostility, spouse or child abuse, insatiable hedonism, abnormal sexual behavior, sleep disorders, eating disorders. etc.
>45. Any of the foregoing symptoms can occur in any society, but in modern industrial society they are present on a massive scale. We aren't the first to mention that the world today seems to be going crazy. This sort of thing is not normal for human societies. There is good reason to believe that primitive man suffered from less stress and frustration and was better satisfied with his way of life than modern man is. It is true that not all was sweetness and light in primitive societies. Abuse of succubi was common among the Australian aborigines, transexuality was fairly common among some of the American Indian tribes. But it does appear that GENERALLY SPEAKING the kinds of problems that we have listed in the preceding paragraph were far less common among primitive peoples than they are in modern society.
He goes on with more on this topic, and to understand the core principle behind why a life without technology would be better and why you cannot escape technology in a technological society you must absolutely read the book. You will keep making very poor assumptions over and over again until you read it, like with your last two posts.
Wouldn't it be easier to just kill yourself than to change society?
Honestly I don't disagree with anything you wrote about here but I don't see how converting the world to neo-ludditeism will actually help people be happier. Personally I have no emotional attachment to this body or society, I don't care what happens to society. Sure destroying industrial society could prevent total ecological collapse, but again, who cares? Existence is meaningless. Call me edgy or nihilist or whatever but I don't care, that's just how I feel. If society really became some sort of techno slave dystopia like you said it would I would just kill myself, hit the escape button so to speak. I think a lot of zoomers and millennial agree with me too, just look at the booming rates of suicide and depression. Sure you could say it's because of industrial society but I think it's deeper than that, I think it's caused by the fall of religion and the rise of materialism and nihlism. People realized that non existence is a way better than deal than existence, and your neo luddite fantasies can't fix that. The redpill can't be unswallowed.
In that video I linked it mentioned how anthropologists saw primitive tribes who stopped breeding and eating and killed themselves when they learned about nihilism and how their is no meaning to life. These people would have been as close to your neo luddite fantasy as possible yet they still could not go on living. Face the truth wiz, suffering is not caused by society, it's caused by a lack of meaning.
It's a lot of factors. I understand nihilism and I have to admit that it is the only rational philosophy, but I will never be a nihilist. As long as there is suffering in the world I can't ignore it. You can rationally say that there is no meaning to anything and you would be correct, and I can irrationally say that I could never be satisfied while (A. (I live) and also B. (There is suffering in the world).
Belief in nihilism is rational as a belief
, but everything that you do as a human is irrational. Rationally, anything and everything is just matter and energy changing their relative states. A human can never be rational, even if he tries and says that there is no meaning to anything. Even if he kills himself, he is trying to free his nothing from nothing, which is irrational. Even if he lays himself down and does nothing he is behaving in an irrational way by attempting to execute his philosophy built off of his irrational desire to be rational. Rationality itself is an abstraction of human creation.
As I said, I admit life is meaningless, but you cannot deny that there are things which you by your irrational design recognize as human and even empathize with feel what your subjective experience would feel as pain and suffering. As long as you are alive you will be doing something irrational, and I believe that reducing suffering is just the right thing to do. I don't have to define what is right or prove its existence. It doesn't exist and neither does nihilism.
because you look at what everybody else is doing and saying and you see their requisites for being happy, all the things they need, and who they think deserves to be happy and why, and you listen to them even though you can't relate to it and don't agree. You see that you don't live up to what their requirements for being happy and having self esteem are. But these ideas were never yours because you were never like them. They know that if they were like the people they look down on and feel better then, they couldn't be happy or have self esteem. And without anybody to look down on and feel better then, they cannot be happy or have self esteem.
Eventually you absorb and internalise what they say, because they have to be cruel and cold to the people they look down on, and its only human to get hurt by it.
In other words society uses emotional abuse and wounding (emotional violence) to coerce everyone to take on the insecurities that power its hierarchy.
>>230216>>230216>It's a whole lot more comfortable to believe that civilisation itself is broken than that you are.
Why can't it be both?
sounds like kaczinski maybe? In one of his letters answering back to someone?
>>230392> Who wrote this?
The dude in that pic wrote it. You might recognize his name: Adam Lanza. He was the Sandy Hook shooter. He also happened to have been a big fan of Kaczynsky.
>if you're sad (on the depression board) you aren't a true wizard
What a subhuman normalfag opinion, truly the normalchimps who come here to openly mock wizards are becoming so bold as to make this their public stance. What a disgrace.
Good take which is easier said than done but I still like it. Btw are you consumed by suffering anon? What are your copes
so to say?
The problem is not the sadness but the object of the sadness. It's painfully clear that these people cannot handle the wiz life i.e. being a solitary, self-sufficient person that can find meaning in solitary interests. Wizards can be unhappy for many reasons like having to deal with a job, family, society and the friction that creates, but when they are on their own, they are perfectly content being who they are and engaging with their interests.
Here's top signs of being a covert or self-deluding crab>vague depression about nothing in particular (can't talk about it because of rules or denial)>massive inferiority complex>chronic boredom and lack of interests (standard normalfag response to isolation)>masturbation and porn addiction (some delusional hope that fapping will give them what's missing)>asking for personal advice (desperate for companionship and sense of rapport with someone)
The list goes on. It's incredibly easy to spot them.
Would you TrueWiz types please bugger off already to a dedicated imageboard for aroace males rather than perpetually trying to destroy this one with your unique brand of autism?
>>230668>vague depression about nothing in particular (can't talk about it because of rules or denial)
Depression isnt a rational choice.>massive inferiority complex
That can mean a lot of things and at most means you didnt mature as a wizard yet>chronic boredom and lack of interests (standard normalfag response to isolation)
Standard response to a lack of reaction.>masturbation and porn addiction (some delusional hope that fapping will give them what's missing)
nofap is normalfaggotry >asking for personal advice (desperate for companionship and sense of rapport with someone)
Yeah why ask people who share your experiences for advice.
You are an idiot.
Would you InvoluntaryWiz please bugger off already to a dedicated site for lonely sex-starved men rather than perpetually trying to destroy this one with your unique brand of desperation?
Why go to a site where you can't openly talk about what pains you the most? But also ask for advice to deepen the hole you are already in when it is clearly not working out for you? I'm sure it's much easier to convince someone to just fuck you instead of going through all this delusion. You will never be happy as a wiz.>>230675>Depression isnt a rational choice.
Not a choice, but completely rational. Only delusional crabs want to believe that their despair is the result of chemicals and voodoo magic, instead of the natural result of not thriving in the normalfag world. You have a set of needs, physical and psychological that are incompatible with the wiz life, hence the depression.
>That can mean a lot of things and at most means you didnt mature as a wizard yet
Sometimes it's painfully obvious, especially when they mention looking up old facebook friends and getting jealous. The sense of inferiority is the defining feature of the crab and the main obstacle for the to adapt to the normalfag world.
>Standard response to a lack of reaction.
Reaction to what? Clearly most people can't handle sitting 24h in their room, especially not without meaningful relationships. The reason nothing moves them is because they're completely cut of from any social network and all activities then become meaningless. Consider something like gardening for yourself and gardening for your family or community, the same activity physically but psychologically completely different. The failed normalfag cannot derive any meaning from solitary activities and depression is the natural result.
>nofap is normalfaggotry
Jerking off is a necessity, but overdoing it just means you're looking for something that isn't there. Nobody needs more than a couple tugs per week and definitely doesn't need TBs of porn on their computer, unless in the temporary fantasy of consuming that garbage they feel a tiny bit of connection with another human being that has chosen to film their intimate sex act for profit.
>Yeah why ask people who share your experiences for advice.
So that you may feel for a few moments that anonymous strangers care enough about your life to fix it.
>You are an idiot.
No, I'm just a guy holding up a mirror reflecting your painful grimace. Sorry it hurts so much to look at yourself.
Truly a subhuman reply, managing to say so little with so much text other than nonsense vague scenarios that you are accusing the strawman you are arguing against of doing. Acting as if you are the truewiz template and not just another delusional faggot with a superiority complex.
>>230690>bugger off already
here first. But, history does teach that has seldom mattered very much. Hypothetically, where would you have us go besides to hell? Don't even bother suggesting i[n]cels.co. It's not an imageboard and besides, the last time I checked it was just lousy with mentally retarded teenagers. I doubt it has gotten better since then. Sites like that somehow always turn into a race to the bottom.
>Why go to a site where you can't openly talk about what pains you the most?
Even if that to which you are alluding were in fact what pained me most, I'd have absolutely no interest in continuous pointless rehashing of something that can't be helped. That way of thinking was essentially the original justification for Rule Two.
>I'm sure it's much easier to convince someone to just fuck you instead of going through all this delusion
FYI, I'm forty years old, diagnosed with actual autism, and of meager financial means. I'm barely able to speak to anyone. I've no interest in relationships, and in any case I lack the emotional intelligence to participate in one. Even if it were possible, what ever gave you the idea that "convinc[ing] someone to just fuck [me]" would solve anything?
>You will never be happy as a wiz.
I will probably never be happy, full stop. But, this is, after all, /dep/
And how exactly am I misrepresenting your argument in any way?>>>if you're sad (on the depression board) you aren't a true wizard
I made a clear argument that it wasn't about sadness at all, but really about the object of sadness, then defined the wizard personality as a person that thrives in solitude and can derive meaning from solitary activities, then outlined the signs of a crab personality whose defining features are being unhappy with oneself and his natural habitat i.e. not thriving in solitude - therefore, crabs are not wizards.
After you look up the definition for 'strawman', also look up 'ad hominem', then consider why your only argument to a well-thought out post is "subhuman reply" and using terms you don't even understand.>>230720>we were here first
So? Communities evolve. I can forgive your confusion about this place because it shares a name with a previous community that was an alternative /r9k/ for the next level of crab. That place no longer exists and died along the invalid admin.
>FYI, I'm forty years old, …
Yeah, that's great, but being a wizard has nothing to do with autism, poverty, lack of ability to communicate and other incompetency. The only real defining features are voluntary celibacy and a dedication to a solitary life. As for sex as a solution, many crabs claim that it doesn't matter to them, but in all likelihood, a considerable amount of affection from the right kind of succubus would completely reset their entire world view and sense of inferiority.
>>230724>Yeah, that's great, but being a wizard has nothing to do with autism, poverty, lack of ability to communicate and other incompetency
I never claimed any of those things to be defining characteristics of wizards.
>The only real defining features are voluntary celibacy and a dedication to a solitary life
Where is that written? It isn't in the rules. Perhaps you should update them.
Regardless, I suspect that very few would argue I've not voluntarily chosen to live both a celibate and solitary lifestyle. I've never actively sought anything else and have always successfully resisted others' attempts to include me in social activities.
I'm not advocating for individuals who self identify, openly or otherwise, as i[n]cels to be welcomed on Wizardchan; rather, I object to your continued insistence that wizards experiencing prolonged dysphoria don't belong here, and on /dep/ of all places.
>in all likelihood, a considerable amount of affection from the right kind of succubus would completely reset their entire world view and sense of inferiority
How could you possibly know that? And what does it even matter if it's an impossibility?
Oh great. Now wizkids who animeavatars are the arbiters of what wizards are rather than actual 30+ virgins. No wonder there are barely any actual wizards here.
Wizchan turning into some normal-adjacent smugzone is the worst.
"site actually mentions reclusive/neet but that's not a part of being a wizard at all."
like it's pretty absurd that the mental image of a wizard now is just some indistinguishable normalfag who just happens to not have sex and posts about he's a realwizard after a day at the office.
>>230810>posts about he's a realwizard after a day at the office
You know wageslave threads are been here since long ago right?
Just being a wageslave doesn't imply working at an office. We probably have way more people who are working low end jobs and are seen as the weird guy at work. I wouldn't say it's typical that wizards are mostly normal office workers.
Yes but you can be a wageslave working at an office and many wizards are.
What happened to this? I guess everyone leaves when they turn 30.
I'm not quite sure if this post is intended to be pro or anti Peterson.
If I had to guess, I would say that it is both anti "leftist intellectual" that Peterson so hates, as well as anti "alternative intellectual" like Peterson.
The original quote was probably written with "leftish intellectuals" in mind, but it can just as easily apply to people like Peterson.
Not me. I'm 34, a virgin, friendless and still here
I do nothing but cleansing: https://wizchan.org/dep/res/230820.html#231299
But I still rest into lazyness, into not-doing… just getting my body ready as much as I feel to, for the time when life turns a different yet still ugly side towards me.
It is without a doubt anti Peterson, Ted's idea of what the "system" is will be very different to what others say it is. The quote itself is anti-intellectuals in general - for they think they are different or are rebelling against some majority or system, but really are incapable of any actual rebellion since they support the system they claim to rebel against. Even worse is that they themselves might be the very system they wish to rebel against, since they uphold the technological power that is the system.
Happiness is just "things you care about going well
You can be happy as a wizard but only if social/sexual relationships aren't something you care about
[Last 50 Posts]
Happiness is just "things you care about going well
You can be happy as a wizard but only if social/sexual relationships aren't something you care about