[ Home ] [ wiz / dep / hob / lounge / jp / meta / games / music ] [ all ] [  Rules ] [  FAQ ] [  Search /  History ] [  Textboard ] [  Wiki ]

/dep/ - Depression

Depression
Email
Comment

File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

  [Go to bottom]   [Catalog]   [Return]   [Archive]

 No.231052

I saw this video recently (I know it's a JBP video but please don't turn this thread into a political shitshow debate, this thread is not about politics), and it really made me wonder, what the fuck determines what you are passionate about? I mean here I am, a lazy high school drop out NEET with zero passions or motivation to do anything but jerk off and browse forums and YouTube all day, meanwhile my peers from school have all went on to get amazing careers and are super passionate about things. I knew this kid in high school, quite introverted like me, yet unlike me he was incredibly passionate about one thing, and that was computer science, he spent hours programming anything and everything, he taught himself calculus and linear algebra at 17, he made tons of program on github that I cannot even begin to comprehend, naturally he is now a senior developer for Microsoft too. What sparked that interest in him in the first place? What made him enjoy computers so much to learn all that? I've tried to learn programming many times and I get bored to tears, anything else would be interesting to me. I can list countless examples of people like this, I know people who are obsessed with music, or neuroscience, or engineering. They spend hours and hours researching and they enjoy it, and best of all, they remember it!

Why am I cursed to live a meaningless and pointless life, why couldn't I have been chosen to be passionate about something, anything! It bothers me so much, that my happiness is completely out of my conscious control. Life is so cruel to me and I don't know why…

 No.231054

Great, another "God I Wish That Were Me" thread.

 No.231055

File: 1604009720105.jpg (645.22 KB, 1000x1379, 1000:1379, 1603400982932.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

I believe that "passion" or simply motivation to pursue something is the result of one thing - positive memories of that activity leading to some rewarding outcome, real, tangible, experiential knowledge that it's beneficial for you. The feeling of motivation, that sense of potential that drives people to do things, even difficult things, is really an anticipation of a reward that they're already familiar with through experience. They might not be able to put it into words, they can only describe positive feelings surrounding the activity which people often call "intrinsic" motivation. Physiologically, this is related to dopamine which spikes around relevant cues related to the activity to make you pursue it but then drops immediately after the person accomplished what they needed to. Ever noticed how porn is enjoyable to watch even if you're not touching yourself? Just the mere act of tiddies being on the screen is enough for your brain to anticipate the future reward and then immediately drop your dopamine once you finish.

That kid that was "obsessed" with computer science probably learned at one point that he can get social approval from friends, parents and teachers for being "gifted" and "smart" and every time he practiced coding or worked on a project, there was an anticipation of a reward, being able to show it off and feel competent. The better he got, the more opportunities and doors opened for him and then he made some money from it and now he knew that he could live of this skill. This isn't just about social approval but having any concrete experience of the activity that leads to something rewarding will tend to stick around in the brain. That knowledge of something beneficial might not be conscious or easily verbalized, but it manifests itself as a "grabbing of attention" and a drive to pursue the activity.

One reason why people can't just make themselves passionate about something is because verbal, abstract reasoning isn't enough. Sure, you might rationally understand that learning programming would be beneficial, but you've never experienced any benefit from it, never felt it on your own skin and these beneficial reasons remain something abstract, something that might as well just be in a fairy tale.

So what can be done? Well, basically, in order to get that intrinsic motivation and feel "passionate" about something, you need to have the right kind of experience that will teach your brain to anticipate a reward. You cannot do this through logic and verbal descriptions, it has to be EXPERIENTIAL. For instance, people don't immediately get addicted to gambling by just knowing that some people win abstractly, but the first time they win big becomes an experience that will drive them unconsciously to pursue gambling, because suddenly they know, actually know, that there's a win waiting for them somewhere. If they're poor or otherwise down on their luck in other parts of their life, the gambling becomes more addictive since the wins are much more rewarding and because this is the only activity they KNOW that provides any potential for them in the world.

 No.231056

>>231055
Yes this makes a lot of sense, so how do I make myself have those experiences?

 No.231060

File: 1604011709769.png (976.23 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, 1599518346715.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>231056
It depends on the activity, but the general principle is to find something rewarding, not abstractly, but something real and concrete. The difference between knowing abstractly that an activity is profitable is completely different from knowing through experience.

Consider someone's description of an RPG video game. He tells you that it's fun and enjoyable, you can do this, that, level those skills, upgrade those weapons and so on, but you've never played an RPG. It all sounds like something up in the clouds - you don't get the point, just like your parents might not get the point because they're boomers.

But then, you install the game and initially you feel that it's going to be a drag, I mean, 50 levels with one character? That sounds like a lot, you don't have the patience for that! And then after playing for a little while you gradually learn through experience what's so cool about the game and those upgrades aren't just numbers, it feels easier and faster to slash through all the monsters - abstract points now become a tangible benefit in your mind and you feel motivated to increase them.

When you don't feel like doing something, ask yourself, what's the tangible, real benefit of doing this? If it's studying, when has studying ever gotten you a high grade or a compliment from your teacher? When was remembering all these facts worth it? Is there an occasion when you felt great after a workout or actually SEEN or FELT any gains? When has reading some novel ever brought you anything interesting or made you feel smart?

It sounds kinda banal when you explain it, but it isn't quite clear how to reverse engineer this process to make life easier. Perhaps you want to start working out 3 times a week, how do you demonstrate to yourself some tangible benefit from the activity in a short period of time? Experiencing tangible gains would be awesome but that's a long way down the road. If you're particularly out of shape, that reward might be several months away! That's a lot of effort to put in, to ask your brain to deal with all that discomfort for just some abstract notion you heard somewhere, completely unverified by experience.

 No.231063

>>231060
Right, so your answer is "just do it"? Doesn't really help me though, I get bored to tears.

 No.231065

>>231063
There's no real guarantee that just doing it will lead to a reward, it's a very blind, luck-based approach. My advice is, figure out ahead of time what could be rewarding about the activity, something that you actually value, then directly aim to experience this. Turn it from something abstract to something tangible. Nene-chan is showing off her game progress to her mentor and she might get a pat on the head like last time. What will your programming project bring you?

Here are some actionable steps:
>pick an activity you want to be passionate about
>score the amount of resistance and enjoyment you feel towards it currently out of 10
>write down all the possible tangible, real rewards it can bring you, things that you consider valuable
>if you can't find anything rewarding, pick another activity or do it backwards, go from rewards to the activity
>for each reward, figure out what needs to be done in order to experience the reward directly
>skip rewards that you know can be gained more easily through another activity (buying a smoothie after working out doesn't work because you know that you can get a smoothie any time by standing in line and paying for it)
>order by difficulty and time required
>for each reward, try your best to verify through experience that the activity leads directly to it
>score your resistance and enjoyment out of 10 and repeat the process until satisfied

Each experience of a tangible reward should bring down resistance and increase enjoyment of the activity for the next time.

 No.231066

>>231065
I think that could work for some people but not me.

 No.231084

>>231063
Not him but most interesting things suck ass at first.
I would say give it an honest try for at least one month and then decide if you are into it.

 No.231085

>meme video about meme eceleb that has no relation to anything
>OP post is just a high school blog post
>quip at the end where it's hard to even tell if it's ironic or not
>getting replies to this senseless garbage
so this is the current state of wizchan? anyone who types in more than 100 words should be treated seriously?

 No.231087

>>231085
Sorry I didnt realize replies were some precious resource I should only spend on the most philosophical of topics.
I somehow mistook this elite academic forum for an imageboard.
My fault.

 No.231088

>>231087
oh that's quite alright mate as long as you get in a giggle or two it's worth it

on old wizardchan your thread would at least get deleted and you'd be banned for a week it sure was worth it to reduce the site to a daily 10-20 posters

 No.231092

>>231085
Nothing you wrote here has added anything of value to the conversation, if you think this is a bad post then make a real reply with actual substance.

 No.231099

>>231052
It's just probably genetics. You might have a learning disability while he has accelerated ability to learn and he could lock onto that. They decide they want to do something and they thinker and figure it out.

There isn't really a different approach. They did something and they noticed they had a knack for it and wanted to keep pursuing it since it was a process of continuous improvement. If he had had the experience of just failing over and over again, then he'd have been fucked and ended up like you. That's the trend I notice is that these also have way more mental energy and processing speed so they don't burn out like the person who prefers to watch youtube videos all day. It takes less effort for them to achieve results.

For me, personally, I did my best to get into programming and attended a bootcamp but I found I enjoyed reading about it more than doing it and even though I was dedicating more time than the other people, it was just locking in for them. I was stressing constantly about it while some people who would just barely do any work when they went home(no real pressure on those assignments) were just running circles even though I had prepared for the better of the part of the year and they had never really done much before the class. They were just making the connections in their head and then figuring out the parts they needed to translate the concept into programming languages. Everyone ended up employed by the end except for me and that's when I realized there was probably something just slow about my brain.

 No.231184

>>231099
You're sounding like le sad poor doomer now, if you managed to graduate and couldn't find a job you most likely just don't have connections. Very few people manage to land a somewhat well paying job strictly with qualifications alone, as that requires you to to be exceptional in your respective field. Stop being a retard and actually look for connections if you really want a job

 No.231185

>>231184
That isn't really the issue I was highlighting at all. I was highlighting going in with more knowledge/practice and getting worse results for more effort.

The hiring had nothing to do with connections as there were interviews set up with employers. Also "Look for connections". You know the board you're on right? I have little interest in networking. I didn't expect to get "just network brah" advice on fucking wizchan.

 No.231220

>>231185
ok, I admit networking was the wrong word as in programming related field I guess having a presentable portfolio is preffered

 No.231251

>>231055
>>231060
This is a pretty good explainer of why social isolation makes it hard to enjoy life or work towards goals. When do people in social isolation actually accrue benefit from their efforts? It feels good to be praised and respected by others, to be desired romantically, etc. These are some of the most motivating feelings. There are non-social rewards that provide dopamine hits too, but they pale in comparison to the ones that come from social interaction. Normies are constantly getting positive social reinforcement from the things they do and that ultimately is what motivates them. They want to buy a shiny new car so that everyone will see them drive it. Without people to admire you owning it, it becomes incapable of providing you good feelings because that admiration from others is what provides the good feelings, not the possession of the car itself. If the positive social reinforcement is replaced with none at all, or negative reinforcement, then it becomes very hard to motivate yourself to do anything because you're no longer getting all those dopamine hits from positive social interactions.

 No.231295

>>231251
I get what you're trying to say but most normies just follow their programming aka purpose. The car example Isn't a good one because you can just appreciate the machine and all the little details that was put into it, without social validation involved

 No.231303

>>231295
How did that work out for Elliot Rodger tho?

 No.231317

>>231052
>>231065
Passion is something inherent to your character, its something you discover, not create.
This is why you always doom yourselves, you look upon everybody else and want to be like them instead of following your own path wherever it might take you. So what if your classmate wrote codes and participated on forums? Why do you think you have to replicate it? Because its more likely you will end up some code monkey wageslave rather than anything close to a lead developer let alone in silicon valley. Why dont you find out what you are really passionate about, or more precisely; why dont you accept what you are passionate about? Maybe you have a passion for literature, or philosophy, or mathematics, or travel so why not do something with it? Comparison is the death of joy, you need get over those narcissist, childish fantasies about being an all powerful, admired hero.
You can become one, but then you need to do what you like. How many "great men" you know did something they despised? Thats just the path of a miserable wagecuck.

Saging because failed normalfag thread.

 No.231324

>>231317
The thing is, I'm not passionate about anything, I literally spend my whole day looking at memes or sleeping. I wish I could have a passion but I don't, it all feels meaningless.

 No.231327

>>231052
>Life is so cruel to me and I don't know why…
What are you doing that you know you shouldn't be doing that you would stop, that you could stop?

What do you know you should be doing that you aren't doing that you would do?

Start there, be as brutally honest as you can possibly bear to be with yourself, and don't stop until you're dead.

 No.231337

>>231332
You're for real an outsider norman.

 No.231338

>>231337
You don't see how living like that can lead to crippling depression and anhedonia?

 No.231340

>>231332
No he's not. There is no reason why a passion is necessary in life. Many Greek philosophers even argued that life is inherently meaningless and passion or no passion makes little difference in the long run.

 No.231341

>>231329
>Just look at memes all day and sleep, live like a sloth, a lot of normalfags exist like this
are you calling wizards normalfags?

 No.231356

>>231341
No, I am saying he obviously has some passion and drive otherwise he would be just content living the sloth live. Yet, for some reason he wants to be a master programmer or something.

>>231340
You are missing the point too.

>>231337
Nice buzzword, "wiz". Just bee urself, just take a cold shower, just go for it with all your might :)))))) Being delusional and odd doesnt automatically qualify you for wizdom.

 No.231359

>>231317
>Passion is something inherent to your character, its something you discover, not create.

I mostly agree with this although it's complicated and I'm not gonna get into all the caveats that need to go along with a statement like this. For argument's sake I'm going to say that having "passion" about something is having a keen interest in something and experiencing enjoyment from (learning about) it. In other words, it makes you feel good to do it so you do it all the time. I think basically that feelings exist because they have evolved to prod us towards the behavior that is advantageous to survival and reproduction outcomes. Now I'm going to try to think of some common things that people are "passionate" about. Nurturing children, providing healthcare, gardening/farming, taking care of animals (husbandry), hunting/fishing, shopping, sports like running or martial arts etc. All of these are generally ancient societal roles that have existed for millenia and play (or used to play before the industrial revolution) a large role in survival. People hunted for food before even civilization existed, then they grew it. They ran down their prey so running gives people feel good chemicals even to this day and gardening gives people feel good chemicals even when they don't have enough land to actually plant the food they need to survive. Childcare was especially important and was the main work of succubi and even to this day raising a family is generally the number one desire of most succubi and is what brings them most joy. Men had different roles so we developed less of this instinct but we have more of an enjoyment of sports which is like modern-day combat.

I think the problem today is that modern life just does a shitty job of triggering any of the shit you evolved to enjoy, especially for men. Even if it does provide some feel good chemicals, it's mostly a watered down and unsatisfying experience compared to when the stakes were real (running down a deer instead of a marathon, planting a field instead of a garden). The one that has grown to subsume everything else is a desire for money ie a passion for earning money and being rich. Now as long as you have money, society can always provide for you so really all you need to focus on for survival is money. As the industrial revolution destroyed the traditional ways of life, the traditional social roles, the only traditional thing that still made people feel good was earning money and buying stuff. Having more and better stuff increases your odds of survival so obviously we evolved to enjoy it.

I don't think this is enough though, much of the nature of the work we're doing is totally different from what we evolved to enjoy so it's less intrinsically motivating and satisfying. Some people are naturally more inclined to enjoy one thing or another based on genes I think, some people are more domineering and enjoy having power for example and that motivates them, but for most of us we are working on version 1.2 of the firmware that is suited for farming and raising goats and shit when we need to be on version 4.0 like Donald Trump or someone, a hypernorm who is capable of whatever mental gymnastics he has to do in order to succeed in the current world order.

Not everyone has evolved quickly enough to deal with the rapid change of pace of life so ultimately the things we find enjoying and motivating don't really exist in modern day society nearly as strong as they once did. Maybe you have no passion because you were born with the personality to be a soldier but war is now gay as shit thanks to guns and technology and could not provide you with the same rush that physical combat with swords and shit would have given you. Maybe you were born to be a farmer but instead you're a wageslave stocking shelves all day. You'd be much happier tending to your flock and watching your plants grow, killing pests and weeding all day but you never even had this as an option in the society you were born into. It could be any of the archetypal roles that you are not able to fulfill because modern-day wage-slavery only contains pale imitations of these things.

Maybe the person with the instincts (passions) of a farmer or a shepherd or something can translate their innate interest and enjoyment of taking care of animals into being a vet or something, but does that really provide them with the same experience and joy? A shepherd gets to know his whole flock intmately, to know the land around him, to know how to avoid danger it takes a whole different skillset even if the "animals" part of it is the same. You need to know how to de=worm an anus or two but it's not what you do all the time, but as a vet you just spend all your time doing the most unpleasant parts of animal care like anus de-worming that everyone else is too lazy to do having zero relationships with the animals. So unless your life is being compensated by something else like spending money on pleasures it becomes very unpleasant. No one is being a shepherd anymore these days because for one there's no more common land and for two you couldn't earn very much money at it so you couldn't get the basics like a house and TV that everyone thinks they need to be happy. We mostly can't even comprehend what a real life is supposed to be like in industrialized capitalist nations.

 No.231362

>>231359
>>Passion is something inherent to your character, its something you discover, not create.
This is the case to some small degree, but for very complicated reasons that the poster you're responding to doesn't understand in the slightest.

 No.231459

>>231099
I couldn't even bring myself to read about it…I mean I did but barely at all. It was my ambition to learn programming for the longest time and all I would do was procastinate and go on the internet or watch porn and jerk off, a true addict. That must have been for at least a year. I'm guessing I have an unusually severe case of ADHD. Over a year of being medicated since then and I doubt I'd be able to do much better now.

 No.231460

>>231052
I don't have passion for anything I force myself to do things I'm interested in or think that I'm interested in and feel absolutely miserable and bored out of my mind the whole time

 No.231467

>>231459
You view your habits as that of an addict. Maybe you need to cure yourself from your addictions before going for something as enigmatic as passions.
You need a solid foundation to build a house

 No.231468

>>231467
he's addicted because he's living unfulfilling, shitty life, stop spouting meme sentences like cure yourself from your addictions like a fucking normalscum

 No.231478

>>231468
If you choose to maintain that mindset you're choosing to perpetuate your unfulfilling, shitty life. I was able to cure myself by examining my psyche and slowly learning how to manipulate it, so I know it's possible.

 No.231479

>>231478
Not him, but could you elaborate on your method?

 No.231480

>>231479
Well I started with basic CBT, after I hit a wall with that I started using meditation to dissociate from my personality and look at my self as an outside observer, analyze the processes that go into the creation of mood patterns, attitude patterns, habits, etc, as well as the relationships between my self and the external world that manifest as runs as 'good luck' or 'bad luck', meaning, purpose and such. I found that I can effect these processes from a dissociated state and if done with enough force the changes will persist.

 No.231485

>>231052
I can relate. I believe some (or well a lot) people naturally are smarter/more passionate than others, I remember hearing that there is a gene that allows more neuron synapses in specific part of the brain which leads to being better in maths. There's also an environmental factor as some people are passionate but the place they're in discourages it (poor, bullied, etc).

There's a solution to getting rid of unpassionate people like myself but it involves a certain "E**s" word would just get the cuck-UN and other "moralists" to froth their mouth like dogs and scream "but muh ethics", all because of a fucking Austrian man that gave it a bad rep

 No.231488

>>231480
Snorting Ketamine is not a solution to anybodys problems.

 No.231489

>>231488
I don't see where he says anything about ketamine.

 No.231492

>>231489
>I started using meditation to dissociate from my personality and look at my self as an outside observer
What else is this supposed to mean?

 No.231494

>>231492
…that he meditated?

 No.231502

>>231494
ok my bad I read "medicated" lol

 No.233487

File: 1607668514591.webm (1.81 MB, 720x400, 9:5, san tiao ren.webm) ImgOps iqdb

>>231055
I don't think passion necessarily only comes from DOING something rewarding but rather it comes from something affecting your life in general in an positive way, and you then having the feeling that you can replicate it/do something related to it, even if its not to the same extent/ the same intensity. That would explain why there are some people really passionate about oddly specific things like cheese or watches too.
My passions for art and music came from them really doing wonders for my mental health when I was younger. While doing my passions I'm simultaneously very harsh on myself and easygoing but I think being the latter is really the key: even when I make something I'm not happy with I still often can see the potential in it/what I was TRYING to do, and that is what keeps me going even when I fail, which is most of the time.
I think the key to start developing in a field is to be very easy on yourself but do it very VERY regularly.

 No.234648

File: 1610511195348.png (418.05 KB, 453x520, 453:520, kaputt.png) ImgOps iqdb

I'll go ahead and necrobump since I recently thought about the subject and immediately remembered this thread.

Anyway, seeing how New Years is often the time that people reflect on their lives and make their resolutions in an attempt to turn their lives for the better or at least better understand their goals and passions, I decided to dig through my memories a fair bit to see what my passions and goals were, because, as you might expect, I can't really say I have any. Though, who knows, they may be buried in the past, after all, as many have suggested, there may be some kind of "archetypal" kind of passion, or a long-lost, innate childhood passion that, for one reason or another, wasn't provided the means to be realized.

Well, I did all that, couldn't sleep well until it was almost morning and kept thinking about it the day after. The result? A letdown.
My childhood interests coincide almost perfectly with what my adult self does, in spite of the fact that, to my current self, it all seems like a waste of time that I want to break away from.
To elaborate, my conclusions upon reflecting on my childhood self's interests are the following:
I liked videogames; I liked discovering new media/content I didn't know existed (but I often did not consume it); I liked daydreaming/dissociating; I liked collecting things; I did not like being around other people; I did not care about school, chores or interacting with the real world, generally speaking, unless I was told to/was coerced into it; I did not care about artistic pursuits, my creativity was spontaneous but simple, a far cry from the deliberate, planned-out work professional (or aspiring professional) artists actually do.
To repeat myself: my current self's core interests are essentially the same. I made attempts to pick up new hobbies and activities, but more often than not they did not stick or, I have to admit, I had to force myself to pursue said hobbies and activities. There are its own reasons for that, primarily: I picked those up out of desperation to be "more productive" and "be able to do more", "monetize it in the future", approached them with an inappropriate sense of professionalism, often setting a high bar for myself, without deriving much fun or sense of personal accomplishment first, as others have also pointed out.

Regardless, I now wonder where this leaves me. Do I have a "core" that is completely unchangeable? Is it even possible for me to develop new interests at all? Do other people have their own immutable "cores"?
I set out to re-discover myself by looking into the past, but somehow I ended up looking into the mirror.

 No.234657

yeah i wish i could find something to do in this life but there's just nothing out there

 No.234663

>>234657
Same. Nothing out there I Can do because I'm too much of a failure I have to add.

 No.234666

I'm not sure why this thread pissed off so many people.
its not like the notion 'something to do' implies 'something i can do that will get me a career and a normie life.'
id be satisfied if i had a passion for collecting anime figs or something. but i dont. i have never enjoyed doing anything. every conceivable activity has always just slid right off of me from birth. i wish i could do more than just stare at a wall



[Go to top] [Catalog] [Return][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ Home ] [ wiz / dep / hob / lounge / jp / meta / games / music ] [ all ] [  Rules ] [  FAQ ] [  Search /  History ] [  Textboard ] [  Wiki ]