textbook failed normalfag
Is still prefer failing at being normal than the alternative of caving into failure
Even if I don’t get a gf I can still make sure I can make myself happy through working to be better. I’m just surprised at how distant I am from everybody else around me socially nonetheless
>>257270>I can still make sure I can make myself happy through working to be better
And what exactly does this entail? If you don’t even have a job, much less a driver’s license? This is my problem with the epic improvebrah shit. It’s all talk. You really aren’t any different from us. It’s just your own rampant narcissism. You want to “improve”? Start by fixing that.
you got a long way there champ. keep reading those self-help articles, one of these days you're gonna be "normal" whatever the fuck that means. you're probably just not combing your hair right or something and you're gonna find that girlfriend that loves you and a job that appreciates your specialness. you are only a temporary loser, not a real one!
Sad little normalfag
miserable freaks circlejerking over failure per usual. welcome to wizchan OP, baa baa!
A wizza can't even talk about his failed tinder date without crabs coming out of their little hidey holes
This. So much this!
Op have you tried just being confident? Do you take showers? Also, always remember to respect succubi. succubi love a gentleman!
Insightful, but it could do without those normalfags taking up most of the image.
yeah i guess. i think its funnier with them included. like im sure that guy only has a gf thanks to esoteric nazism and bible study 7 days a week, eating portioned and weighed raw meat and activated almonds, has multiple subscriptions to multiple vitamin services and listens to subliminal binaural beats while meditating and using positive visualization.
just kidding, he probably doesn't even need to go to the gym because his athleticism is genetic and he gets all the exercise he needs from sports. he probably eats whatever he wants and gets drunk and is still successful.
because normal people don't need to force good things to happen to them with time consuming snake oils. they just happen naturally.
Delude yourself with pessimism, swine. You deserve to be a loser for forcing your failure ideology onto everyone. I weep for the gullible minds you've misled.
im going to have the biggest muscles in the world and more knowledge about jesus than the pope so that i can optimize my sitting in front of the computer all day.
it's gonna be ok champ. most people have a phase where they spend years doing nothing, moving nowhere and hanging out on virgin invcel forums all day long. and then, they just succeed and get all the prizes and stuff and all they had to do was, idk, stop eating gluten or really believe in themselves. i'm sure you're gonna crack it anytime soon…
these whiney "truth" posting losers think they're deep and thought provoking but in essence they just want others to be miserable and feel bad about themselves. There is nothing wrong with trying to improve yourself. Case in point, having a higher education degree on average means that you're less likely to find yourself unemployed and more likely to earn well.
All else equal it's better to be depressed with money that be depressed and poor.
So fucking improve yourself if that's what you want to do, don't listen to the naysayers, fuck what they think. Do things for you and not because some idiot online "black pilled" you into not doing anything productive
so you discount all of it because it would make OP sad? truth is always better to the alternative. spending 4 years on a worthless degree, accumulating debt, all so you can hold on to the fantasy that you're gonna be rich and successful one day. you're just delaying the misery, making it worse actually, all because you couldn't accept your lot in life but fancied yourself a temporarily embarrassed "winner" lmfao.
self-improvement is masturbation. if you could do it, you'd already be doing it. if you need a pep talk, a self-help book, several years of deliberation before you take action, you might as well give up cuz it ain't happening. better to accept that then jerk off to the fantasy, holding unto a smidge of superiority towards other losers just because you haven't "given up" and somehow enlightened for it lol
Both of you are insufferable and fail to realize that I legitimately have no idea what I would even do even if I did just give up on life. Like seriously did either of you consider even once the idea about what to do after you give up on everything? The only thing your realistically do is just off yourself if your not enough of a faggot to pussy out of it if the ladder than your just self wallowing bitch that isn’t getting anything done when you know what you want in the first place
Doesn’t make any fucking sense to give up since there’s realistically not much to do but hey that’s just my perspective
this but unironically>>257289>I legitimately have no idea what I would even do even if I did just give up on life
yeah, if you spent your entire life mundanely socializing with people and not stopping to do or think about something actually interesting thats to be expected. this is why people call you a normalfaggot, youre literally incapable of envisioning that theres more to life than raising a family and "fitting in" socially.
>if the ladder than your just self wallowing bitch
funniest thing ive read all day
What else is there man? This worlds a lot smaller than you’d think if your not actually doing anything with it.
It doesn’t mean I have to fit in in the way society expects me to but the idea of just lying around doing absolutely fucking nothing is simultaneously boring and sad and feels on par with being dead.
>>257289>what to do after you give up on everything?
maybe just enjoy the inner peace that comes with acceptance? 99% of the shit you think you need is brainwashed through societal conditioning. i mean look at you, can't imagine a life where you aren't satisfying other people's expectations. how are you supposed to live without a succubus and a screaming brat at your hip? your life's practically meaningless unless you're a slave in some company working for the next promotion. if you think about it, all that stuff is just so you can get permission to feel good about yourself.
there's a lot of freedom that comes from giving up. in reality, nothing changes, you are still going to keep doing things that work and make you happy, but you remove all the little restrictions in your head about what you can and cannot do.
the challenges faced by people with no internal monologue or mind's eye.
>>257286>having a higher degree
no, it matters which degree. if you get a sociology degree, you're probably worse off than a kid who just worked since 18; financially and in terms of employability >>257268>still don't have a license
your fault 100% lol>still unemployed
im not even memeing, you can fabricate a resume with 3-4 jobs like overnight stocking etc and get a job off indeed working in a warehouse for 20+/hr. minimal social ability is required.
I came to a new state on March 6th. since then, I've gotten hired to 6 jobs; all from indeed>baggage handler at airport ($17/hr)>Warehouse assosicate (18/hr)/>warehouse selector (20/hr)>Warehouse selector (25.77/hr)>warehouse selector (22/hr)>material handler (25/hr)
with minimal preparation, you can get these jobs by bullshitting your experience. two of them mass hired dozens of people to fill increasing demand. if you geninely want a job, and you're complaining about being unemployed, then fuck you lmao
Yeah, it took me until 24 to realize that something was actually wrong with me beyond being unkempt/ugly, and until 28 to realize that it wasn’t fixable and I’m a dead end. And yet my peers could tell this about me by the time I was ~13.
Denial is powerful.
if it was any other skill or achievement, people would say you should move on if you're in your twenties and haven't progressed in it at all. but apparently, you can become a chad social butterfly at any age if you use the right deodorant.
in the same boat but when i think about it, it seems like i was kind of doomed from the start considering i was put on psychotropic medication when my brain was developing. i know it sucks not having a picture perfect life but sometimes circumstance leads a person down a different road than they had envisioned for themself.
I’m 29 years old with a useless degree and a neet that never worked a single day in his life I also don’t have a license.I’m just a genetic loser and no matter how hard I try I will never be a winner because of my low intelligence and inferior genes
at the very least, it shows your talent for enduring tedium and bureaucracy. you could be a wicked sick office drone if you put your mind to it. a schedule, some rules to follow, arbitrary assignments, a supervisor to impress…you were built for this shit!
So I went through the whole thread and my thoughts are the following.
There is no "proper" age when you should get your first job or your first gf. People are different. In our oversexualized world the media of course tells you you should have sex as soon as you can but really, it is stupid to hold yourself to some stupid expectation. Yes, most people experience sex or romance when they are in high school. However, if you missed out on it then you can always do it later. That is, if you even want it. For sex there are whores. Findig romance or sex with non-hookers is harder but not that hard if you work or are around other people in some way.
Finding work as an older person who has never worked previously is trickier though but again, you can solve this too if you really want to.
Nobody was predestined for anything. Your genetics or environment doesn't set in stone your entire future. If someone wants to norm it up it is possible at any time. Most likely it won't be as you imagined it or as how you saw it in movies but it is possible. Your gf will be ugly or fat or unreliable most likely, your job will suck ass but again, it is possible.
To end up as a friendless male virgin NEET you kind of have to want it on some level deep down, that's what I realized. Around high school I realized that people are overrated so I started to isolate myself actively. And I also witnessed that romance isn't the same as in my chinese cartoons or movies so yeah, I said no thanks to that too. As for work and going to uni, it was obvious to me since a young age that it wasn't worth it, in fact I knew all along that life itself isn't worth getting worked up about.
Some addendum: I like being a wizard overall. My problem is with life itself. As far as living goes, I prefer the wiz life compared to the norm life. Just thought I'd mention that norming it up is an option at any time, if you want that. Ofc, you won't be a normal by just lifting weights, taking vitamins or meditating. You have to go out and interact with others (why do I even have to write this out? This is so basic.)
Lol yes. Don't believe everything you read on 4chan or other normalfag bragging sites. Most of the time normals are just bragging or trying to look cool by portraying themselves as the alpha males they would like to be. Classic survival mechanic.
All of this is wrong, which is demonstrated perfectly clearly with statistics
Statistics don't mean anything when you are the exception, do they? Fact is, plenty of males lose their virginity in their 20s. And again, there are still quite a few people out there who only started to work later in their lives.
Age doesn't matter. Or what, you think you suddenly lose your dick once you reach 30 if you are a virgin? Or that you can't ever work if you neeted until 30? This nonsensical thinking only proves what imageboards do to your brain and thinking. They give you a painfully inaccurate view of reality, where you are the poor victim who lost the genetic lottery so he doesn't have to do anything but still he can complain because he doesn't get what he wants…even though he doesn't lift a finger in order to achieve his desires. Yeah, right.
The so called "crabs" are mostly volcels in denial who just want a reason to hate the world, themselves and others or simply late bloomers. It is always easier to categorize yourself as de "genetic trash" than to try to get what you want. That is again, if you even want a normal life at all. If you don't that's fine, then you are like me and you are content with enjoying the wiz life so good for you.
This thread is a mix between egotistical faggots desperate to make everyone around them feel as bad about themselves as they do
And generic faggots with the belief life is magical and some problems can be overcome with 0 effort and not literal years of dedication.
Either way all of you are arguing over nothing OP abondoned thread and is probably re evaluating is life choices wether or not for his own good
the duality of man
Obviously at 40 you can still lose your virginity and get your first job. But it's not going to be the same. You need to lower your expectations and you have lost a lot of potential in those areas. You are at an enormous disadvantage compared to people who did those things earlier. You seem to be imagining a black-and-white strawman argument, some stupid claim like you can never lose your virginity or get any job at all if you havent done it by 30, but obviously nobody believes that.
Your life is determined by your genetics and upbringing. If you're born with a deformed leg then you're not going to be a top olympic athlete. If you're born blind then no you're probably not going to be a computer graphics designer. If you were born as a farmer in Africa with your clitoris removed then you're not going to be billionaire banker with a good sex life.
You have an incredible lack of awareness with respect to the world and human psychology.
sorry but your cute little optimism is missing the part where isolation causes more mental illness than inhaling gasoline does. you cant just "wait" to have sex and get a job because 4+ years of hiding inside your house will irreparably damage your brain and your social skills. you don't just walk out unchanged.
of course you'd know that if you weren't just a redditor traveler here to do some creepy kiss ass philanthropy work. you'd know cause it'd have happened to you or you'd have at least read about hermits, the effects of isolation, crazy cat lady syndrome and things like that. look at a vid of a prison's isolation block. something.
yea maybe a prisoner starts hallucinating the virgin mary in his cell and eating his own poop after 10 years alone, but im sure a wizard can just walk out whenever he wants and have sex hehe. :) :3
>>257320>There is no "proper" age when you should get your first job or your first gf
That has to be one of the biggest amount of bollocks I've ever read on an imageboard.
>>257330>creepy kiss ass philanthropy work
I've noticed this happening on certain threads on other imageboards where some anon has this bizarre normalfag "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" attitude even when the thread is specifically about being miserable. Like they're searching out these threads.
>>257320>To end up as a friendless male virgin NEET you kind of have to want it on some level deep down, that's what I realized.
This is absolutely true, but you're missing something. It's the idea that society allows people to fall through the cracks and become wizards, because whether you enjoy it or not, it's largely not a positive existence. This is a real tragedy, that people have to cope with their miserable lot in life by accepting it and even craving it on their own deeply subconscuous level. We can really only ever be comfortable with this life because it's all we know, granted that's the same with all lifestyles but not all lifestyles are defined by such inwardly directed negativity.
>>257320>To end up as a friendless male virgin NEET you kind of have to want it on some level deep down, that's what I realized. Around high school I realized that people are overrated so I started to isolate myself actively.
But why would you feel that way? We pull away from social activities because something prevents us from enjoying them. Again, as always, it comes down to genetics and upbringing. The benefit-reward calculation is different for us. Otherwise, as the same species of talking monkey, with the same brain structure, we would make the same decisions as normals.
Actually there is not much definition for what a normal is. The outside world is weird
I discount all of it because it's just worthless bullshit that serves no real purpose in our lives.
No one mentioned getting rich, the only thing I said was that ON AVERAGE people with a higher education degree live better lives, find themselves less time unemployed and earn better than their uneducated peers.
It's true some higher education degrees are dogshit but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a degree overall.
Self improvement may be masturbation, but doing nothing and just criticizing others all day is pathetic. >>257297
Do you know how to read?>>having a higher education degree on average means that you're less likely to find yourself unemployed and more likely to earn well.
I said "on average" for a reason>>257289>life is hard and I feel bad
don't we all. but then again don't think there's nothing you can do to improve your situation, there are plenty of things and it's better to try than to sit around moping all day
>>257329>Obviously at 40 you can still lose your virginity and get your first job. But it's not going to be the same.
How would you even know? Did you try it? Stop romanticizing teenage or high school life, it isn't like in anime or in TV shows. Putting your dick into a pussy will always be the same, same for getting friends and socializing.
If anything, living without those things as a failed normal and then getting them finally would make you incredibly more happier and you would appreciate those things much more than average people who take sex or friends for granted.
>You need to lower your expectations and you have lost a lot of potential in those areas. You are at an enormous disadvantage compared to people who did those things earlier.
What disadvantage, lol? See this is what I am talking about, you compare yourself to others constantly and always refuse to do things you would want to do because others are better at X thing or they have more experience. So by your logic I will run this by you, see what you think: There are 13 year old kids out there who have sex. By your logic, anyone older than 13 should just whine and do nothing and complain about their "disadvantage". Lol You are a 17 years old guy who wants to get laid? Well sorry bro, better not try because some 12 year olds already had sex, hah what a loser! It is not a competition, stop listening to 4chan shit. You do it when you want to do it or IF you want to do it and that's it.
>some stupid claim like you can never lose your virginity or get any job at all if you havent done it by 30, but obviously nobody believes that.
Really? This whole board and in-cel communities generally tend to believe that.
>Your life is determined by your genetics and upbringing.
To some extent yes. But it's not like you people imagine it is. The guy with a deformed leg can still be participate in paralympics. The blind person can do learn useful skills too if he wants to. The farmer in Africa can migrate to Western Europe and try his luck there. Life isn't set into stone and if you believe it is then you are just looking for excuses for your laziness or to justify why you aren't even trying to get what you want.
>You have an incredible lack of awareness with respect to the world and human psychology.
Oh the irony…>>257330
It isn't optimism, it is called realism. If you don't do things then you won't get what you want - this is basic logic. If you try to get what you want actively then you may still fail but maybe you will succeed - nobody achieved anything by posting on /dep/ all day. People won't suddenly ring your doorbell and ask you to be friends with them or to marry them or to work for them, you are the one who should take the initiative and go outside first.
I'm a friendless NEET, been that for years, I barely leave the house. I don't feel any negative side effects, when I had to go out and interact with people I could do it with no problem. You don't forget to talk or socialize, just like you never forget how to swim or how to ride a bike once you know it. And it is absolutely ridiculous that now you compare yourself to some prisoner, wtf? Who keeps you back from going out into the world, aside from yourself?
You have dangerously low self-esteem. Maybe don't spend all your time on /dep/ but go outside if you want to do it so much?>>257332
What is the proper age then? Tell me. There is no universal law that you shoud lose your virginity at 15 or 17 or so on…Grow up.>>257339
Society allows you to do what you want, I see it this way rather. You want to be alone? You can do it but then don't whine about tfwnofriends or tfwnogf. Either be a hermitwiz with all your heart or be a normalfag, there is no use in striving for some middle way.
I don't think there is anything about the wiz life that makes it a negative experience by default. Some people, like me, love it. Others hate it. Simple. I know I pushed people away from myself consciously when I was a teenager and honestly? Don't regret it.>>257348
My brother is a full normalfag, so is my sister. So much for genetics and upbringing. It's not just about DNA or environment, there is something deeper that defines us. I honestly believe free will is a thing and we can decide what we do on our own when it comes to most things. I choose not to engage in social stuff because I didn't like others and I rejected my classmates several times when they tried to drag me to parties or such things. I always liked for example reading a book or playing a game better than spending time with others. I learned at an early age that friendship is overrated, same for other things normals hold in high esteem.
>>257361>What disadvantage, lol?
…you're unbelievable, really. Imagine a 40 year old guy with no work history vs a 20 year old student in the same job interview. Or a 40 year old neet on a dating app.
To me it seems your whole argument is claiming the past history of your life doesnt affect your future prospects and it makes no sense. I think there is just some failure of communication between us. If you fall off the typical path and are trying to get a job and have relationships for the first time when you are old, things are much more difficult.
>>Your life is determined by your genetics and upbringing.>To some extent yes.
No, literally to 100% extent. What other factor can there be? Logically, you must be highly religious to claim otherwise. This is a simple philosophical problem about free will and determinism, and practically it makes no difference to what decisions you make.
>If anything, living without those things as a failed normal and then getting them finally would make you incredibly more happier and you would appreciate those things much more than average people who take sex or friends for granted.
Quite possible. I never said people shouldnt try to do certain things. If a 40 year old virgin wants to have sex then of course he should go do it.
You seem to be imagining so many things and not even reading my messages. Communication with you is too difficult.
Your post denies the effects of aging on the body. at 40 years of age you won't EXPERIENCE life the same way and you will have less opportunities to find good friends, a job, a gf, etc.
Even videogames don't feel the same when you're old and you really think relationships or any spheres in which you move will be the same,for someone who has been asocial for 40 years? You simply can't go from being a 40 year old secluded asocial virgin to having a social circle and a girlfriend like it was nothing. Your post is nothing but foolishness because it denies logic.
theres a general scope of normal though that you should follow if you want to fit in. basically holding a job, fitting in with others, having a decent place to live. etc
i've made vast improvements to my situation but i still feel drained of energy and depressed.
It's still better to try than to do nothing. I used to feel like you do but I don't feel like that anymore.
Work history can be made up, in the wageslave thread there are plenty of people who were long term NEETs before getting jobs.
Again, with all this comparing yourself to others mentality, lol Why do you compare yourself to others when you lived a completely different life? There will always be someone who will be more successful or experienced than you, you don't accomplish anything with this mentality. Don't compete with others, compete with yourself. You can take this relaxed "I will improve myself bit by bit approach" or you can go full normalfag "baa waa this world is sooo unfair". About the 40 year old neet you mentioned on a dating app, what is your point? Again, if you looked at the real world out there you would know there are quite a few people who never worked a single day and yet they don't have problems with findig wo-men. You can find dates as a 40 years old virgin-neet, yes. You won't have 10/10 succs but you can find someone. Most normal males actually do this, lower their expectations so they can get laid more easily. It's only the super rich guys or male models who get 10/10 gfs, the vast majority need to settle for fat or ugly succs. Question is, what do you want?
>No, literally to 100% extent. What other factor can there be? Logically, you must be highly religious to claim otherwise. This is a simple philosophical problem about free will and determinism, and practically it makes no difference to what decisions you make.
Effort can make a difference. If you give up because you are lazy then don't be surprised if you don't get what you want. You have choices. All this talk about determinism and genetics is just degenerate excuse finding on the parts of lazy people most of the time instead of actual philosophy. I was down that road too. But really I was just looking for a scapegoat (the environment, genetics, etc) and something to justify why I should be miserable.
I find this whole "epic depressed/pessimist german philosopher told me everything is predetermined so it must be true" to be so cliché and to be a narrow view of life. You won't find out about life from scientists or philosopher or ib posters, you need to live and experience it yourself. You have more freedom than you think you have.>>257371
Idealizing/romanticizing the teenage years yet again, I see. Don't watch so many anime about high school kids saving the world or finding "pure love" lol Some things are always the same. And even if you are right, there is no reason to mope around. Those years went by if you are 40. So what do you want to do NOW?>for someone who has been asocial for 40 years? You simply can't go from being a 40 year old secluded asocial virgin to having a social circle and a girlfriend like it was nothing
Maybe it should tell you something about yourself or about someone, if you or he spent so much time alone. Maybe the normalfag life isn't for you at all and you don't even want it, thought about that? Why would someone live in solitude if he hates it? Why would someone not try to get what he wants? Maybe because he doesn't want a normal life at all, he just wants to complain.
>>257320>there is no proper age for job or first gf
wrong. its 18 for sex and asap for jobs. if you're 40 and you've never worked you've missed out on 1/2 the time in your life when you could've been saving money for retirement. you are fucked. there is no making up for that lost time. im 30 and i feel like i already fucked up massively wasting my 20s>people are overrated
yea don't take a definitive position that'll show em!
>>257409>18 for sex
Source?>asap for jobs>retirement
I disagree. If you are 40 and never worked then you spent much more time on yourself or on your hobbies most likely than many others taken together. And that's good. "Retirement" is the carrot society swings before you to get you to wageslave, aside from family and marriage. Most people die thanks to overworking when they are in their 40s or early 50s and never get to experience the comfy retired life. The present is always more important than the future because you never know what will happen tomorrow.
Most of the people I see with succubi and children are complete dysgenic garbage. Hell, you even see people with actual genetic diseases having children. There has to be something else than just genes affecting the whole equation.
i completely agree with you. im gonna live the life of a drifter. ill work for a little while, and then fuck off indefinitely to other countries with low COL, rinse, repeat. I can tell that perpetual wage slavery ages people and hollows them out.
my dads been a lawyer for 30 years, and still working at 64, i don't think he knows what else to do with his time. he literally could've worked from home and chose not to. he goes to the office even on saturday to just make sure he's caught up with whatever he needs to do. its kind of sad. he's probably gonna work until he's like 70 to max out his S.S and probably stroke out or something.
two weeks of vacation is a fucking joke.
Why is it that you visit this board? It doesn't seem to me that you have depression, and you seem very content with your life.
He's here to share his based wisdom, a culmination of thousands of self-help articles, PUA motivation videos and some Common Sense™.
Why do you really lament it? Due to being exposed to this cruel world? Or because you actually have soke desire to fulfill an achievement, like filling an emptiness inside you?
Sometimes relinquishing is the best. Acceptance and deliberate surrender, instead of hoping and wailing
I like the cynics, especially Diogenes. They were wiz-friendly, same for the stoics. But if you ask me the closest to the wiz soul was Epicurus and his hedonism, maybe.>>257419
Been saying this for a while. It is about the will, in my opinion. We lack the will, desire or motivation to have relationshits. There aren't really any "crabs" past 25 imo. If you seriously wanted to do it then you would have done it by then. Even most of the so called "crabs" are volcels who need a reason to hate the world and others.>>257420
Marx was wrong, religion isn't the opium of the people, it is ironically, work and wageslaving. The masses don't know how to occupy themselves, it is the classic example of slaves who feel useless and bored when they aren't given orders.>>257440>>257442
I had depression, I know what is like. I come here to share my wisdom yeah. But it's not from self-help articles or motivation videos. I speak from experience here. I think I know more about depression than some succubus who learned psychology I-II in uni between two orgies.
good post wizzie. i don't know that many will appreciate it on this sub tho. apparently depression actually makes your thinking more 'rigid' and obviously you tend to focus more on the negative aspects of life when you're depressed. so what might appear 'normal' to a depressed person is actually a warped fabrication by their sick brain. such a sick brain is likely to reject a lot of self-improvement talk which ironically will make it harder to get treatment.
What is your opinion on suicide?
Not sure if I quite agree with you about the free will stuff but I don't have any arguments coming to mind really so maybe you have a point. I don't have any real desires or goals in life and I don't want to do anything, I don't even really want to improve my situation as I don't think there is anything there to be improved. I think some wizzies are better off not chasing after the normgroid life. In between the love life and children and the nice house come arguments, crying, screaming, and lots of pain. Maybe more people would be better off if they opted out.
When it comes to depression you have to brute force your way through it, no other way possible. You have to take control of yourself and force yourself to do shit, otherwise you will be stuck forever. That's what many refuse to understand, that you have to take the first step, you have to push on and eventually it will get easier.>>257525
I tried it myself too and fantasized about it a lot when I was younger. My opinion is that it is a shit cope. "If it gets bad I will just kill myself" No, most likely you won't, ever. It's hard, trust me. Either gather all of your willpower and do it or don't even daydream about it. I realized when I tried to do it that I didn't really want to die. I still had plenty of things I enjoyed but I ignored these because I took them for granted.
I don't judge others who do it. It's your life, you know what you do with it. But I look down on people who want to die or kill themselves because of stupid shit. I'm talking about people who have it pretty good otherwise generally but because of some normalfag drama they go and hang themselves. "Oo my wife cheated on me, better hang myself :( even though I am rich and healthy…" "Ooo, nobody likes me, nobody wants to be my friend, better jump off the bridge, even though I live a privileged life in a 1st world country :(" Shit like that pisses me off to be honest. But otherwise I understand suicide, especially if you are about to go to prison for long time for example or if you realize that you have cancer or if you live in a dump 3rd world hellhole, then yes I understand completely why you kill yourself.
Suicide is a cope for most people, again if someone really wanted to die then he would do it, not post on image boards long walls of text about wanting to die. My advice is that it is time better spent if you focus on enjoying your life, instead of contemplating something you won't do.>>257526
Improvement is subjective, what do you value? That is the question. If you value sex and friendship then there is no point in trying to live like a wizhermit NEET. But if you value solitude and freedom then why cry after the normalfag life?
>I don't have any real desires or goals in life and I don't want to do anything, I don't even really want to improve my situation as I don't think there is anything there to be improved.
If you are happy that way, then continue. But if not, there are many doors open to you. I think it's good to want things, to have desires or goals, no matter how absurd they are to others. My goal currently is reading the selected writings/speeches of a communist politician who governed my country during the soviet era. Is it stupid? Yes, most likely. Is it useless? Quite so. Is it fun? It is, for me anyway. And that's what counts.
Games and movies and shows used to make me happy. Those walls are closing now. I think I have seen everything that I have wanted to see. I’m trying to get into books but I find that I have very little patience for it. I don’t really look down on people who commit suicide for those arbitrary reasons, I suppose some can be really stupid but it must have been causing them some kind of agony and they dealt with it, just not in the way other people would have. It’s my life to waste I guess, I don’t envision suicide or death anytime soon but it will happen one day.
>>257567>You have to take control of yourself and force yourself
This makes literally no sense. You are your self! You're talking about your concept of self like it is split in two
Try books, worth it. In general if you get bored of something make sure you take a break from it and do something else for a while. I always keep going in cycles, I read a couple of books (entertainment+philosophy+political stuff) then go to comics, then to manga, then to VNs, etc. Variety is the spice of life. Don't get stuck on one thing only because you will burn out.
Patience can be improved with practice. During my teens I didn't read at all but nowadays I read long books like they are nothing.
Well, those people who kill themselves for stupid reason are at fault in my eyes, throwing away your life because of nofriends or nosuccubi is objectively retarded.>>257585
Maybe. This is quite pointless to talk about, because it is wordplays and playing with concepts. In reality, if you set yourself to do something then you can force yourself to do it. The human mind is awesome.
You will make an oath to yourself starting tomorrow that you will enjoy life as much possible from now on..and you keep it and you can change things. A matter of discipline and self-control.
I don't know what is the "me" who makes the resolution or the idea, is this "me" material or spiritual? We could debate this for a long time and we wouldn't be any wiser I think. My opinion is that the whole "only biological machine" thing used to describe human nature is wrong, because it's not only that but there is something more powerful lurking beneath the surface.
/tv/ on 4shit is the best example. Any time an anon even alludes to being unhappy it's nothing but "YOU'RE A FUCKING LOSER, BE CHAD LIKE ME"
Using the word "objectively" when one shouldn't is absolutely retarded.
>>257651> throwing away your life because of nofriends or nosuccubi is objectively retarded.
? You disagree? I mean it is retarded really to kill yourself because of shit-tier normalfag reasons like this.
>>257623>This is quite pointless to talk about, because it is wordplays and playing with concepts. In reality, if you set yourself to do something then you can force yourself to do it.
I think it is important to see that your sentences like this don't make sense. Society plays games on us with this impossible trap logic. Like 'try to be yourself' when you can only be yourself by not trying. These crazy mind-games lead to mental illness, irrational suffering and sensations of guilt. You cant help who you are, so just accept that, do what feels right without these over-thinking mental games.
This is the lazy approach. You can be yourself even if you set tasks before yourself and discipline yourself. I feel like you are just looking for reasons for why you shouldn't do anything. If you let your laziness get in the way of doing things then you are no different from some animal in my eyes, which operates on the immediate pleasure/pain concept.
Sometimes you have to torture yourself a little and do things you don't enjoy to be better off in the end.
Are you done with your little rant? Calm down. Yes, I honestly think if you want to die because >tfwnogf or >tfwnofriends then you are a retarded, spoiled child who never had any actual troubles in his life other than not fitting in with the herd. This is normalfag thinking, you should think things through more carefully. You don't need anyone in this life to be able to enjoy it.
>>257659>you don’t need anyone in this life to be able to enjoy it
Aren’t we social creatures? Don’t we need socialization in order to thrive and be happy and fulfilled? Even NEETs are usually living with their parents, maybe even siblings.
>>257659>Sometimes you have to torture yourself a little and do things you don't enjoy to be better off in the end.
You don't understand what I tried to communicate. It has nothing to do with action, but is only about perspective. You are always yourself whether you realise it or not, and you will always do the ame things, but you don't need to have a twisted mentally ill view that 'you are torturing yourself'. If something is difficult and challenging but seems it will pay off in the end then you will naturally be motivated to do it.
>If you let your laziness get in the way of doing things then you are no different from some animal in my eyes
You are no better than an animal. Animals can be quite satisfied with a basic neet lifestyle, there is a lot you can learn from them if you want to find mental peace.
“I have lived with several Zen masters – all of them cats.” ― Eckhart Tolle
>>257668>Aren’t we social creatures? Don’t we need socialization in order to thrive and be happy and fulfilled?
Apparently not, since we are on a site for friendless male virgins.
Social animals don't kill each other, don't exploit each other, don't bully each other, etc. Should I contine? Humans as social creatures is the biggest joke ever.>>257679
I understand what you are trying to say but again, this isn't important at all. Arguing about abstract things like this is useless.>If something is difficult and challenging but seems it will pay off in the end then you will naturally be motivated to do it.
Uh, not always? Sometimes people need to be reminded that they need to get their shit together.
Also, you are talking as if the human ego is something permanent and solid while it isn't, it can be shaped in different ways. The only unchanging part is the higher you, the higher ego, which has your memories. The current you or the lower ego is something that is very prone to change. The higher ego can build and shape the lower however it pleases, of course some things might be harder to shape it into but yeah, it is possible to change yourself.
We have superior rationality and thinking for a reason, don't waste them. Men is much more than just animal drives. I don't know why you are so scared of asceticism, discipline or even change itself.
Mental peace is good, but only in moderation. If you want absolute mental peace then lobotomize yourself or take meds until you are nothing but a zombie. It is good to be disturbed by things to a healthy extent.
>>257763> Social animals don't kill each other, don't exploit each other, don't bully each other, etc.
This is what you get when you start from the greeks but never open a biology book. It's no suprise that someone this confident in his delusions believes in free will.
>>257763>Social animals don't kill each other, don't exploit each other, don't bully each other, etc. Should I contine?
In fact, humans do all these things because yes, they (especially the normalfags, there is a spectrum) are in general a turbosocial species. Craving for status, wealth and power or seeking popularity using evil or manipulative means are totally social primate things. Being social doesn't mean being kind.
Humans aren't social creatures, I think this is pretty obvious to anyone who thinks clearly. Biology books and other works too are built around the false narrative that we are social animals…because! Because otherwise uh-uh we would need to tell the hard, dark truth and we can't blackpill people.>>257778
Being social means exactly that you put the community before yourself.>Craving for status, wealth and power or seeking popularity using evil or manipulative means
Yes, this is what egoism, ultra-individualism and being anti-social is about. People do these things because they feel good to them or because they care about themselves more than they care about the group.
If we were truly a social species then we would help each other and preserve the weaker members of our species with great care. But this is very rare and most of the time you see that people only care about themselves and actively seek confrontation with weaker members of their species.
modern 21st century wizards
The greatest post in the history of chandom. The OP absolutely nailed it and the sickening image just forces the point home even further. This pasta never fails to impress me every time I see it. If you're out there OP, kudos for your insight.
Normal people simply exist and their ignorance is bliss.
Wow…this is the greatest imageboard post Ive ever seen…and Ive been here since way back (2016)…Im gonna send this to all my friends and Blackpill them (already dropped Redpill bombs on them 24.7 theyre desensitized and need a harsher dose of reality)
Maybe the notion of self-improvement is inherently flawed since the you that needs to be improved is the one that is doing the improving. The you that lacks social skills is the one that is expected to know how to arrive at those social skills. If you manage to "improve", you were really just discovering what was already there rather than arriving at some higher state of being through sheer force of will that is not unlike "lifting yourself up by your bootstraps".
>>258389>If you manage to "improve", you were really just discovering what was already there rather than arriving at some higher state of being through sheer force of will
Alot of improvements can be described this way? Losing weight to get thinner is just discovering something which was already there. Reading more is just discovering an untapped love for reading which was already there. Would you not consider these improvements?
Don't mind him, he just wants to justify why he never even tries anything in the first place. You'd think it would be common sense, to know that if you never try you never win. But apparently some people are this retarded that you have to tell them this basic truth.
Someone can force themselves to read a book every day but unless there's already a part of them that's the kind of person that would read and value reading, they will simply exhaust themselves eventually and give up their ambitions. Most people yo-yo back on their weight loss, on January 1st gyms are packed, on February 1st they are empty.
My point is, one cannot "self-improve" because the notion is inherently contradictory and paradoxical, that a faulty self can somehow create a better self. It's very much like trying to jump in midair.
If people change in non-superficial ways, it's only because they are discovering what's already there. The jock that discovers he is good at some sport and can outcompete others, the nerd that finds it easy to listen in class and solve the math exercises and so on. The "improvement" in their skill was not something they had to think about, all the puzzle pieces were already there and it was effortless for them.
I think that's why the "blackpill" post is insightful because while being bleak about your prospects in one area or the other, the implicit message is that you can only become what you are, and in this case it's not a normalfag so you move on and discover what that is. That's a much more inspiring message than "if you lift enough heavy objects, someone will eventually love you (probably)".>>258392
Maybe I just don't see life in the same simplistic improvebrah way as you do? I'm relatively successful at the few things I care about and I never had to consciously think of "self-improving" or watch some retarded youtube motivational video to do what I already could do. If I excelled at some subject, I didn't need to "try", I didn't need a pep-talk. And if I sucked ass at something, likewise, I just accepted it and moved on.
You're right, I was going to try to communicate essentially the same thing even before reading your message. The concept of the self improving the self makes no sense. A person is always going to naturally grow in a certain direction, depending on who you are to begin with, your experiences and external influences. Western culture is full of the mentally ill paradoxes we see in this thread - it comes from poisonous christian concepts like free will and sin, trapping people in shame and guilt complexes for their whole lives
This is from some crab site that doesn't seem to exist anymore and the text itself is based on an old /r9k/ post:
Let me tell you more about social resources.
Social resources are essentially solid relationships with trustworthy, functional people that are willing to open up with you and share their lives with you, boost up your image to other people in public and even actively keep an eye out for opportunities for the both of you, while expecting the same in return. These relationships provide an advantage of inestimable value as they can completely alter the course of your life.
Social resources are partially inherited as the social and financial success of your immediate family's elders trickles down to you and provides you with free status and opportunity, they are partially shared with you by close ones, as successful and sympathetic siblings and extended family can take you under their wing and vouch for you, and they are partially created by you mostly through successful interaction with your peers in social institutions like school and work, institutions that ideally have a good atmosphere and are free of dysfunction.
In the case of emergency, having failed to secure them any other way, you can also try to quickly create social resources "out of thin air" as you essentially either approach friendly people who you have weaker ties to than the aforementioned and plead with them to share their social resources with you, or try to become a public show-off or jester that attracts attention from total strangers at venues or meetup groups.
Usually this strategy is treated as a "sure thing" by those trying to assuage your fears and maintain morale, but it's not, it's a desperate emergency plan with low odds of success.
Being low on social resources is a big problem for several reasons.
1. Social resources are necessary for certain actions and life events to be available to you. The ability to get a phone call with good news or support from your friend, or for your cousin or college buddy to invite you on a double date or recommend you to an employer… is impossible to "generate" through positive thinking, targeted efforts, lowered inhibition, cold approach, etc.
2. Sharing social resources is something that does not come naturally to people. It's awkward. It's like you're begging them for money or affection, or anything else that's precious and exclusive.
People are used to a common pattern through life: obtaining their hard earned resources at the right time in life, being proud of what they achieved, and expecting the people they interact with to keep up the pace.
3. You usually need SOME social resources in order to get more, just losing out on the earliest social resources you get from family ties can put you on the backfoot, and the disgust shown to you by people who notice your poverty in social resources is not imagined, it's really there, and it wouldn't exist if social resources had little value, meaning they were actually easy to generate or obtain. They are treated as a precious thing because they are a precious thing.
4. Trying to fast track your acquisition of social resources puts you at risk of being taken advantage of by sociopaths. This is part of the reason why social resources are so valued. You are not just connected but you are connected to the right people.
Chances are that, just like me, you are very low on social resources, even if you have a buddy or three to chat with.
What was your early life like if you are currently an adult low on social resources? Could it be possible to guess?
Cocooning parents that avoid neighbours, relatives and connections?
Antagonistic siblings that see you as a burden?
Dysfunctional institutions with an oppressive atmosphere where everyone hates being there and can't wait to leave?
People that are close to you seem to have given up and no longer take care of themselves, let alone others?
Almost always being at a disadvantage in social resources compared to others and being forced to beg others to share some with you?
Feeling like you're always behind and are missing something essential that others have, even those who are less wealthy or attractive than you?
Generally being too eager around people that are all just waiting to return to their "real" friendships and relationships?
Frequently being told that you will "come into your own" and "get lucky" when it comes to social resources later in life? This despite people being naturally averse to sharing them with others and the wealth gap widening as time goes on?
Social resources are the most real thing there is, you cannot replace, simulate, or quickly create people that care about you and are trying to secure opportunities for you. It just cannot be done. Social resources start being accumulated at a very young age, their accumulation is only partially under your control, and it snowballs very quickly into either success or failure.
Nobody was talking about youtube motivational videos or peptalks. It's the simple truth of putting effort into things and then enjoying the reward. I don't know what is so hard for you to understand about this or why you refuse this so much, again probably because you want to justify to yourself why you are lazy when it comes to certain things.
Talent doesn't mean anything if you don't develop it and nurture it with training. You could have genius like ability for learning languages for example but if you never open a vocabulary you won't learn any language ever. See? Being good at something isn't enough, you need to will yourself into practice and training. Individual effort does make a difference.>And if I sucked ass at something, likewise, I just accepted it and moved on.
Maybe you should have tried harder before giving up so soon. This is what I am talking about. You use this line of thought to give up easily.>>258394
What? It's not western culture you dummy, it is known everywhere across the world that effort, hard-work and practice are important things. In the East too, being disciplined and using your willpower to overcome obstacles is a part of culture, even more so than in western culture maybe. Eastern religions rely on asceticism way more than western thought does, buddhist monks and yoga masters practice for decades.
You people confuse determinism with the excuse to do nothing and to wallow in your defeats and self pity. You don't have to believe in free will in order to improve yourself.
>>258415>It's not western culture you dummy, it is known everywhere across the world that effort, hard-work and practice are important things. In the East too, being disciplined and using your willpower to overcome obstacles is a part of culture, even more so than in western culture maybe. Eastern religions rely on asceticism way more than western thought does, buddhist monks and yoga masters practice for decades.
This extreme discipline, asceticism, and diligence that you speak of is completely different than the modern and decadent bourgeois ideology of working for its own sake, being busy for the sake of being busy, and wageslaving as all being the greatest virtue.
>>258398>Cocooning parents that avoid neighbours, relatives and connections?
This hits close as my parents were overprotective and I wasn't given the opportunity to socialize with other kids.
Attractiveness, money, fame, etc. are all different currencies of the social resources.
There is often a quarrel about what females like most. Is it money ? Is a brad pitt level face ? is it a being tall ? Is it being famous >
The thing is that females do not care primarily about these, what they care about is the social resources they can get with those currencies.
Some coins have higher value than other (like 20$ vs 5$).
>There is often a quarrel about what females like most.
Status. They care about status. All those things that you mentioned give you social status, and that's what they look for.
Those status symbols change with every culture. In some Asian countries is incredibly important that you graduate from certain schools with good grades and go to work for certain companies, in the USA the car you drive, the house you have is more important and other material things like that, but at the end is all about status.
>>258446>Status. They care about status. All those things that you mentioned give you social status, and that's what they look for.
Um no Black Pill scientists have determined that the S of LMS means very little and all that matters is the L, the Looks.
Okay? I never talked about any bourgeois ideology or working. Was talking about self-improvement.>>258446>>258457
I would say "power" matters the most. You can be low status socially and ugly too but if you have power of some kind then succ will be drawn to you.
I think you niggers ignored the main point of the post, namely you have know people, the right people to get ahead in life.
Are there any hobbies or other things that you are talented in that you could recommend for me? I would like to self-improve (a part of me wishes I didn't have to and that the few people in my life could accept me for who I am) but I don't know where to start, I'd like to just throw myself at some things but again I don't know where to start.
>>258415>Nobody was talking about youtube motivational videos or peptalks>or peptalks
ah thats funny since you come here and give peptalks all day like as if you're paid for it.
>>258415>It's the simple truth of putting effort into things and then enjoying the reward.
The notion that effort gets rewarded is the prime principle of improvebrah ideology. The people that continually repeat this bullshit either haven't ever seriously put any effort into anything themselves or haven't faced true failure. Usually, its the first one, because as much as improvebrahs love to spout this shit, the reason they post this is because they are trying to convince themselves most of all, the "pep talk" is for themselves. All their wildest dreams are just behind a layer of necessary work. It's so simple isn't it? If you want something, just put in the specific amount of time and effort, and bang, it's yours! How could you not believe in that kind of compelling reality? It seems so self-evident, doesn't it?
Sadly, it doesn't work that way. People give up precisely because their effort isn't rewarded in any way. You can bang your head against the wall for some amount of time, but not forever, its unsustainable. Pain and suffering are nature's way of saying you're doing something wrong and should stop. Following the path of least resistance is how you get through life happy, rather than continually banging your head against the door that won't open. Even if bust through, was it really worth it? OK, I learned some fundamentals of calculus, it took me two years of self-study and you pat yourself on the back. Now what? It's not like you have a promising career in engineering or academia where you could apply it, like the kids to whom this all came easy? You could have given up and realized that your talents and inclinations lied elsewhere, but when you wanted to give up, you had that improvebrah motto in your head "never give up" and you busted through a door with a cracked skull. Even when you succeed, you actually failed somehow because there was no reward there, nothing like you were promised.
There is wisdom in giving up, beyond just some kind of loser mentality. When you reduce reality to something as simplistic as "effort gets rewarded" you cloud your own judgement and ironically end up worse than someone that just followed their instincts.
>>258504>Pain and suffering are nature's way of saying you're doing something wrong and should stop.>succubi claim births are the most painful thing that can happen in their otherwise perfect lives.
based nature, fuck this species.
Can this stupid forum quit with the crab shit? Inkwells are based.
>>258528>opinions i dont like = crab shit>opinions i like = wiz shit
huh. so its like that, i understand everything now…
as stupid as it sounds, that’s how most people think
Hmm. I don't mean self-improvement necessarily to indicate gaining talent in something. I read a lot, watch a lot of movies, TV shows, anime, gameplays, etc.
The only thing society would consider me talented in would be literature or philosophy at most. When I talk about self-improvement I usually mean that if you are depressed you can learn to enjoy stuff again, like I did.>>258503
It's not cheap peptalk to talk some sense into delusional people. Fatalism and defeatism are the trendy thoughts here but who said they are true?>>258504
Oh, I just love delusional sour grapes people like you. I have so much to say to you but I will try to keep it short.
Effort doesn't always get rewarded, I didn't say anything like that? But putting effort into things is required in 99% of things. If you want some kind of success or victory then yes, you should work for it, that is the nature of the world. The wolf goes hunting and sees a rabbit. The wolf couldn't catch anything this week, I suppose it should just give up and die if we go by your retarded logic. Or another example, someone tries to beat you up and he already beat you several times before, guess you shouldn't even try to defend yourself, huh?
If every human thought like you then we would still be living in caves, that's the truth. I don't know what kind of alternate dimension you live in but here, in the real world, people have to do shit in order to get by usually. If you don't even try then you are working against yourself ultimately. To win the lottery you have to play the damn thing. To get a job you have to go out and look for one. You understand what I am saying, right? You can't sit around and wait for nature/other humans/God to save you or to give you things always. If you want something then fight for it. Again, I feel like I am talking with kids, because this is so basic and elemental stuff. You desire something? Then you should try to get it, not be angry in yourself at the whole universe because said thing isn't given to you. I am sure it is way easier to post on /dep/ about how shit everything is but it is useless. Instead of whining you could learn what you are interested in, you could start working out if that's what you want or you could try enjoying yourself numerous other ways.
>People give up precisely because their effort isn't rewarded in any way
Or because they are weak, impatient and want everything instantly? "Ohh I'm not a pro scientist in a few days, fuck this why bother?!"
>Pain and suffering are nature's way of saying you're doing something wrong and should stop.
Eh, no. It usually means you should try some other way to get what you want or try harder. Suffering is a very strong motivational source.
>Following the path of least resistance is how you get through life happy
That isn't happiness, that is coping literally. Man's happiness lies in fighting, overcoming himself and obstacles, solving problems, striving for more. What you advocate for only leads to depression and defeatism.
I'm sorry wiz but life isn't an eternal Sabbath of doing nothing, of passivity and resignation. It is exactly about motion and struggle. You are looking for excuses why you shouldn't even try anything. Like this>The people that continually repeat this bullshit either haven't ever seriously put any effort into anything themselves or haven't faced true failure.
I honestly can't stop giggling after reading this, you seriously believe this? You are delusional, wiz. Oh of course we don't know what "true failure" is and we never put any effort into anything! Hahaha. But you man, you surely know what true failure is and what is it like to put effort into things! It's the same shit when someone here tells others that they don't know what "true depression" is. Little special snowflake spoiled baby logic, only you know what suffering is, we or anyone successful/anyone who enjoys life can't know that, nope.
When I or others tell you to put effort into things and that without effort you won't get anywhere we say this because we assume you possess the maturity, rationality and self-knowledge to know what you want and what you can achieve between the bounds of reality. Like, you could try to learn to fly on your own but you will never be able to do it, no matter how much time and effort you put into it. (Obviously?) Or you could try to be president of your country, which is possible and realistic to some extent. Or you could just learn what you like or enjoy things that are within your graps, which is 100% realistic. There are different levels for how possible something is, of course. But without effort you will get nowhere, this is common sense, again I don't know why some people here need to be reminded of this simple truth.
pointless, self righteous, moronic drivel
you are really going to town on that strawman
>>258562>I feel like I am talking with kids, because this is so basic and elemental stuff. You desire something? Then you should try to get it
You're leaving out an important detail though, most everyone do at some point in their life try to go after what they want, however they fail, repeatedly, often in humiliating ways.
A person can only fail so many times until they simply give up, and being on wizchan I assume I would be correct in assuming the vast majority of guys here do not have a wide support network to help pick them up when they do fail, like normies and especially succubi do.
They're left to rot in their rooms alone, not to mention prolonged loneliness will rot your brain away, so good luck learning anything new when you have to work 10x harder than the average person because your brain is now permanently damaged.
do you have any source on loneliness and brain damage?
Any actual arguments? Any time when you feel like it, I'm waiting.>>258624
I don't think this is the case, in my experience it wasn't failing repeatedly, it was the simple fact that I didn't even try. Fear of failure can be more paralyzing than failure itself, I know it from my own case.
I realized there is no shame in failure or defeat but there is a lot of shame and stupidity in not even trying to get what you want. Because this way you don't even test yourself, you don't know what you are capable of, you will be stuck thinking about things "could I do it? Yes? No?" instead of just doing or trying the thing. Failures can be useful in realizing who you are and what you should do.
My main point is exactly that you should learn to depend on yourself first of all. Other people won't help you. You should help yourself, you are the only one you can trust.
>prolonged loneliness will rot your brain away
That's just typical normalfag propaganda to get you to socialize and engage in socially accepted things.
>>258644>That's just typical normalfag propaganda
Not at all. Spend a couple of years without talking to people and then try to communicate irl. You'll sound like a complete retard. I even forgot how to properly breath while talking and ran out of breath a few times before getting the hang of it again. Now, 2 years is nothing, I would like to see the results of 10 or 15 years of isolation.
>>258644>in my experience it wasn't failing repeatedly, it was the simple fact that I didn't even try.
Wow, it's the "you can only become what you are" shit some anons mentioned earlier in the thread.
Personally, I've banged my head into a wall and repeated to do so because of the sunk cost mentality and I can say is not worth it and I should have done something else with my time and effort
>>258415>What? It's not western culture you dummy
You 100% misunderstood everything I wrote. I give up trying to explain. Read a book on Taoism or Zen before you start making claims about 'the East'. You're so frustrating
>in my experience it wasn't failing repeatedly, it was the simple fact that I didn't even try.
You most likely did fail, multiple times, you just don't remember it. Fear of failure comes from previous failure, if you had done nothing but succeed your entire life there would be nothing to be afraid of.
>My main point is exactly that you should learn to depend on yourself first of all.
That is really easy to say, but extremely hard to practice, the myth of the self made man is just that, a myth. Most everyone that accomplished extraordinary feats had a wide suppport network
>Other people won't help you.
Not me yeah, because I'm ugly, low status and poor. I am however fully aware of just how much support certain people do get, and if these support pillars were pulled out under them from birth they would most certainly not accomplish half of what they have today.
Sounds like anxiety and your personal issue only. I don't talk with anyone except for my family for years now and when sometimes I have to go and talk to someone I do fine.>>258647
You missed completely what I wrote about knowing yourself and what you should pursue?>>258649
I am familiar with Eastern culture, apparently you aren't since you deny asceticism and bettering one's self is a thing in the East.>>258652
No, fear of failure came from my imagination, I imagined the worst case scenario without any rational basis for it, based on other people's failures. I thought if others failed in this thing I will too. But that is retarded thinking.
>That is really easy to say, but extremely hard to practice, the myth of the self made man is just that, a myth. Most everyone that accomplished extraordinary feats had a wide suppport network
Hitler was a homeless loser and then we all know what became of him…I'm not from /pol/, just saying. You can accomplish great things on your own, without a wide support network. In fact, anything truly great only came from such self made individuals.
>Not me yeah, because I'm ugly, low status and poor. I am however fully aware of just how much support certain people do get, and if these support pillars were pulled out under them from birth they would most certainly not accomplish half of what they have today.
You overestimate the "help" other people can give you. If you decide you don't want to give a shit about anything anymore and will drink your brain away then nobody can help you. Or will want to help you. Weak people and those who don't want to help themselves won't get any help from anyone. The popular wisdom is "God helps those who help themselves" and it has truth in it. Nobody helps those who are weak.
>>258644>Any actual arguments? Any time when you feel like it, I'm waiting.
"Hard work", how ever ill-defined that is, will only get you so far in life. You need opportunities and social networks, both of which can be denied to you.
It's strange and but not unexpected to see your ilk around these parts proclaiming the system we live in is just and good. Do they pay you for spreading this garbage?
>>258659>Hitler was a homeless loser and then we all know what became of him
I am not saying that that low status people can never rise above their status, simply that it is highly unlikely and extremely difficult mixed with luck.
As to Hitler's case, he had elder god tier social skills and perhaps might just be one of the greatest orators that ever lived, he got all of Germany to follow him due to charisma, hardly something your average wiz posses.
>You can accomplish great things on your own, without a wide support network.
Never said it's impossible, weird how you applaud Hitlers rise to power, a man who would be no different than your average schizo rambling on the streets without a wide support network.
>In fact, anything truly great only came from such self made individuals.
Wrong, almost all "great" men of history had support from a young age, I can name at least 50, however lets go with the well know Isaac Newton. Newton was born into a rich family, which afforded him the opportunity to get a proper education, he however was an awful student and liked more to fiddle with small inventions, his mother sick of his antics wanted him to become a farmer like his father, until the principal and his uncle heavily advocated to allow him to stay in school. If not for this support network, he would not invent calculus and the three laws of motion, this is just one story where his support network drastically changed the outcome of his life forever, there are more stories like this in his life.
>You overestimate the "help" other people can give you.
I have already accomplished more than most people ever expected of me. I should have been another failure statistic, you have no idea how hard I have worked to simply be mediocre. However, the damage has already been done, there is very little others can do to "fix" me now.
I have noticed that success in life seems to a large extent work the way compounding interest does, imagine a snowball rolling down a hill growing larger by the day, however the same principal applies to failure as well, and even if you do manage to temporarily stop the snowball of failure, you'll still be hopelessly far behind the person rolling the snowball of success.
The only thing left for a person like me is to have kids and try to get them on the right track, it simply is too late for me.
Now that is also a pipe dream as no succubus would ever want to be with me.
>>258662>proclaiming the system we live in is just and good
Who the fuck said anything like that? Can you people read or comprehend what I write?
It is exactly because we live in an unjust world that we need to rely ourselves. Help yourself because no one will help you, that is what I keep parroting over and over in case someone listens.
"Opportunities" and social networks certainly can help you to some extent but you probably don't have those if you are here. Hard work is the only thing you can count on and yourself.
Without effort nothing gets done and nothing is given to you. You can see it in the cases of rich people, if they don't live their life right or if they spend their money on retarded things their luck means nothing in the end. Because no matter how lucky you were born, you can ruin yourself easily.
Your choices in life matter, duh? Only an actual retard would disagree.
>>258667>Your choices in life matter
The world is unjust precisely because this is not true.
>>258667>You can see it in the cases of rich people, if they don't live their life right or if they spend their money on retarded things their luck means nothing in the end.
You've clearly not spent much time around rich people if you believe this, they spend money on retarded things more than anybody.
>Because no matter how lucky you were born, you can ruin yourself easily.
If you're born middle class you tend to live and die middle class, if you're rich you tend to stay rich and die rich. Going down an entire income bracket from rich to middle class takes extraordinarily many fuck ups.
He could've just lived as a beggar, not even trying. Yet he did and he rose above people.
He had support network after he put effort into things. First you have to try, nobody will help you if they see no potential in you.
When I refer to great men I meant self-made individuals. It's not especialy hard to do big things when you start off with a good family, I agree with you on this. However, individual choices and effort count a lot too. I doubt Newton had his uncle and principal holding a gun to his head and forcing him to invent things. You can be talented but your talent isn't worth anything when you don't use it or nurture it.
I think you overestimate support networks. Normals like to see other normals fail and fall, friendship is greatly overrated. Family can be there for you but if you refuse to get help then they can't do much.
I agree that we aren't equal, I never argued for that either. I know some people start off way better than others. That is why it is stupid to compete with others. You should improve yourself for your own sake, you owe it to yourself. Not to mention that if you refuse to train yourself in what you are good at or what you want to do then you are only fucking with yourself. The world doesn't care if there is one more loser in it, in fact they find it amusing to laugh at losers who give up easily.
There will always be someone better, more successful than you. That is why you should compete with yourself only. To be better, to bring out all of your potential skills and talents.>>258668
How can you say that? If you go kill someone you go to jail, if you do drugs you could become an addict easily, if you don't do anything but drink alcohol you will destroy your life thanks to your choice, etc. What you do matters, I don't know how someone can be this retarded that they refuse to understand this.>>258669
I mean that I heard about quite a few rich people who ruined themselves because they made shitty deals and made bad business choices. Or because they made horrible choices in their personal life.
The whole thing about being stuck in your class is just wrong. I see it all the time proven wrong, people I personally know getting rich or rich people that live near my area going down the ladder in terms of wealth and status. Your life isn't a fixed point, only if you refuse to do anything about it.
>>258690>Not to mention that if you refuse to train yourself in what you are good at or what you want to do then you are only fucking with yourself.
This platitude that everyone is good at something is just straight up wrong and needs to end, I know ur not the brightest tool in the shed but still I didn't expect you to be this dumb.
>>258690>If you kill someone you go to jail
Do you really believe that?
>>258690>The whole thing about being stuck in your class is just wrong.
Holy shit, you are dumb. There's been a shrinking middle class and a downturn in social mobility for some time now.
And you seem to have a binary sort of thinking that has infected retards such as your normalfag self. People have told you over and over again that effort counts but it's not the only root of success. Hell, effort can all be for nought if you aren't given an opportunity to succeed.
I think you are a psy-ops. You remind me a lot of woke corporations telling everyone else to "do their bit" for the environment while the corps themselves kill the planet.
Effort is determined by nature and nurture like everything else, not some magic soul.
You certainly won't be good at anything if you only post on dep all day. But ofc, it is all the fault of your shit genes and environment, bohooh, you can go feel sad about yourself all day instead of fixing your own shit.>>258694
Usually that happens, yes.>>258696
Opportunity isn't given to you most of the time, you take it or earn it.
The "shrinking middle class" and "downturn in social mobility" have nothing to do with this, you are looking for excuses again. Why you shouldn't even do anything to begin with. And that is just retarded. You people are like those men who when the ship is sinking don't even try to get off it, you sit there with the waves crashing all around you and you jerk off to yourself for being "redpilled" and such because you don't even try to survive. Pathetic cope you have there, buddy.
And for the "you must be a normalfag because you don't think like me" is an ever-green classic around here. To be a wizard is to be a defeatist, fatalist loser whiner nowadays, at least people like you think so. Shame on you.>>258702
You can come at me with the phony pseudo-intellectual arguments and all but you have freedom to do as you please. You can't change it.
Why are you even here if ur not depressed and why are you schooling us what to do or not lmao.
I know how to deal with guy now, and it's to never respond to his posts!
Here to share my infamous wizdom or wisdom with you young pups and with the deluded heretic elder wizards who gone too far on the path of misery.
Semi-serious answer: been using wizchan and its variations for years. I don't know exactly how long but this is the only place I talk with others.
Exactly, it is this simple. Free will retards seem to have no capacity for logic. >>258741>You can come at me with the phony pseudo-intellectual arguments and all but you have freedom to do as you please. You can't change it.
You provide no rationalisation at all. If you appeal to religion and say some supernatural god gave you a soul which magically gave you celestial consciousness, maybe I can understand. But if you're not religious, you are failing to use basic logic.
>you can go feel sad about yourself all day instead of fixing your own shit.
It has nothing to do with it. I keep seeing you write the same shit all over wizchan, it is so obvious when it is you. Obviously you're struggling with it since you feel the need to keep evangelising
>>258741>Usually that happens, yes
Why only usually? What are the exceptions?
I'm not religious. I can understand determinist arguments but in real life how can anyone believe in this shit is beyond me, honestly. You chose to reply to me. You could've ignored me. People make choices all the time using their free will. And that is it. It isn't a complex thing. You can decide what to do always.
I write all over wizchan because I chose to do so. It's not a struggle for me, I enjoy talking with people here.
If you want to say something just say it. No need for all these platonic dialogues. If you kill someone it is very likely you will go to jail. Probability is a thing.
So whether you go to jail for killing someone or not is dependent on probability?
>>258741>The "shrinking middle class" and "downturn in social mobility" have nothing to do with this
Class has nothing to do with class? Are you retarded?
I get it. You're a troll.
There is a higher probability of going to jail than not getting caught, yes.>>258755
I meant that it has nothing to do with our discussion because you aren't your class. Social mobilitiy exists, no matter how you deny it.
>>258784>There is a higher probability of going to jail than not getting caught, yes.
And I suppose if you don't get caught, it's because you chose to get away with it.
That's not what free will means, you child. Free will doesn't mean you can do anything you imagine. It means you can choose what to do, say or how to react to things. Like I said no matter how hard one tries he won't be able to fly. You can choose to become a murderer or you can choose to not do anything silly like that because of possible consequences. Being able to fly or not is something out of your control, becoming a criminal/killer is something which is in your control entirely.
>>258784>I will put words into others' mouths
Like I said, a troll or a psy-op.
>>258787> becoming a criminal/killer is something which is in your control entirely.
It is not within your control at all. Sociological and psychological research clearly demonstrates that murder occurs within specific situations. Someone may have had a traumatic childhood, where there parents taught them bad coping mechanism and emotional regulation. Someone may have been born with particular neurochemistry that gives them a psychopathic personality. This can be triggered if their spouse, for example, cheats on them and then is drunk on a particular day and says something rude. Your genetics and past experiences determine literally your thoughts and who you are.
Imagine a pitbull being trained for 5 years to kill other dogs, as people do for dogfighting.
The pit bull then escapes one day and kills a random person's dog that they are taking on a walk.
Is it the dog's choice? Millions of years of evolution built it to be a killing machine, then it was trained to kill. Humans are no different: our brains are formed according to other influences.
if free will does not exist then why do people differentiate between regular dreams and lucid dreams?
it feels different
You appear to have forgotten what my contention was about. Here is what you said.>>258667>Your choices in life matter, duh? Only an actual retard would disagree.
All you are arguing now is that we are capable of making choices. But if the consequences of any given action are ultimately determined by the whim of the universe rather than by our choice - as something like being able to choose whether or not you get away with murder, or to take it further, whether or not you successfully commit murder at all, is obviously absurd - I find it hard to see how it could be said that those choices matter.
Deep down we all know free will exists in the same way that we know scientific description of reality, nonmatter how experimentally verified/detailed and precise, could ever explain our subjective experience.
Objectively false if you just read the comments here
When did I put words into others' mouth? It's exactly you people who misunderstand me and try to put words into my mouth.>>258791
Okay, holy hell, I can only laugh at the stupidity here. Give me a minute to recover, I'm holding my sides.
First, "psychopathic personality" doesn't exist, it is a bogus term, most of psychology is made up of these pseudoscientific definitions. There are people who make bad, shit decisions and there is nothing to justify them.
Also, many people had traumatic childhoods yet not all of them become murderers. I would even say most people who had bad childhoods never commit murder. People with similar backgrounds and circumstances make different choices all the time.>genetics>past experiences determine
You are the typical determinist, using determinism and the "no free will" argument only justify why you are the way you are and why you shouldn't try to change. This is the comfiest worldview, it lets you put the blame on others always.>>258792
Bullshit example. Pitbulls and other animals blindly follow their instincts. Humans are different (again, duh?). We can choose how to behave in situations and how to react to things. If you deny this you are simply deluded, there is nothing more to say.>>258797
Your choices matter because you can influence yourself, the world and your environment with them (duh?). For the 100th time I feel like explaining things to retarded people with braindamage. If you have an enemy you can choose to try to kill him, whether this will succeed or not is questionable. But you are free to choose. You can also choose to ignore him simply, which is usually a much wiser choice.
Like I said, if you don't even try you won't have any success at all. If you don't try to get food when you are hungry then most likely you will starve to death. These are pretty logical things and not that hard to grasp or understand.>>258799
Free will exists and everybody knows it deep down, yes. The only reason people want to deny free will is because they don't want to bear any responsiblity for anything they do, don't do or say. It is a shit cope most people here blindly embrace.
What is scarier to imagine as a "loser"? That you couldn't change even if you tried(determinism) or that you could actually change things and yourself if you took the necessary effort and made good choices(free will).
The thought of free will makes people afraid and uneasy so they get rid of it.
>>258836>Your choices matter because you can influence yourself, the world and your environment with them
Can you? How could you know that? What if the outcome remains the same regardless of what you choose? You would surely need to possess divine power to guarantee otherwise.
Causation is a realm beyond our control. This is obvious when it comes to the extreme example of attempting murder, because of course you can't control your environment's reaction to that; but we are not in conscious control of our body and mind either. Thus the same can be said of actions as simple as taking a step or uttering a word. There have undoubtedly been countless times where someone chose to move or speak while being physically able to do so, and yet was prevented for whatever reason by their unconscious.
It may well be that a lot of the time what we choose ends up aligning with how our corporeal form influences reality. Unfortunately for you, there is absolutely nothing you can do to prove that these alignments are anything more than coincidence, because that is all they are.
Your problem and other free will deniers' problem is that you think free will means being able to do anything, like some god. That is not free will, that is omnipotence. You can will something but at the same time you can't accomplish said thing because of certain circumstances, this happens many times. But the will itself is free. You can try to commit murder if we use our previous example but maybe you will find that you won't succeed because your victim fights back or because of some other circumstance. However, that doesn't mean free will doesn't exist. You willed to kill a man and tried to carry out the deed but you failed for one reason or other, most likely because your would-be victim fought back (because he chose to do so).
I never said you will always get results or even that the results will be what you want them to be. However, if you decide to try something, you can influence things. You have complete freedom in a realistic meaning to influence things.
>What if the outcome remains the same regardless of what you choose?
Failure is a part of life but you used your free will to try to get what you wanted. You have options to choose from. In our example the man who tries murder and fails will get killed by the other guy in self-defense or he will get arrested and sent to prison. It was his choice to attempt murder. He could've just continued living his life, without making bad decisions for himself that led to his ruin.
Regardless of the results and outcomes you have free will. Other people can use their own free will to oppose you and even accidents can happen that can fuck up your calculations and plans. But your will is free to will whatever it wants to will.
[Last 50 Posts]
>>257516> i don't know that many will appreciate it on this sub tho
go back to reddit. dunno if this is bait but I'm betting it's not. this place has been flooded by normoniggers from reddit. fuck off.