No.47195[Last 50 Posts]
A thread for wizards to discuss books.
Previous thread hit bump limit:>>40869
I recently read and enjoyed "Depressive Realism: Interdisciplinary perspectives," the latest book from Colin Feltham, a semi-retired British academic. He is deeply pessimistic and somewhat sympathetic to antinatalism, so I think many wizards will enjoy his work.
There are even brief references to the hikikomori phenomenon, autism spectrum disorder, and adult male virgins living on the fringes of society.
This book was published with an academic press, so it's a bit drier than his previous (and best, I think) book, "Keeping Ourselves in the Dark," but it's still engaging and worth checking out.
Here's a brief description of the book by the author:
"In Depressive Realism: Interdisciplinary Perspectives I hijack the narrow psychological concept of depressive realism (DR) to look very broadly and pessimistically at human evolution and history, religion, philosophy, psychology and psychotherapy, socio-cultural phenomena, and science and technology."http://imperfectcognitions.blogspot.com/2017/06/depressive-realism.html
And here's an interview with him on depressive realism, antinatalism, and other topics:http://www.knunst.com/planetzapffe/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Interview-Colin-Feltham-20141.pdf
Other Feltham books dealing with similar themes:
"Keeping Ourselves in the Dark">>36464
"What's Wrong with Us?: The Anthropathology Thesis"
I too enjoyed that book. I should probably read it again, it has been years.
camp of the saints
Check out some of John Brunner's stuff. His most dystopian novels are The Sheep Look Up, The Shockwave Rider, and Stand On Zanzibar. The first is probably the most bleak, the latter two are really good but in my opinion have overly optimistic endings.
Sounds like my kind of guy. Will definitely give at least Depressive Realism a read if not Keeping Ourselves in the Dark also.
>my writing for the past ten years has also focused on what I call anthropathology (the principle of evolved, pervasive human pathology); on philosophies of failure and pessimism; on aspects of evolutionary psychology
Bringing evolutionary pyschology into pessimism is a huge weight that optimistic normies can't knock down. It lends a scientific backing that really overturns common Western morality.
You don't happen to have a PDF/mobi/epub/etc of this do you?
No, I don't. Sorry, wiz.
berkeley isn't philosophy, he's friggin' metaphysics
I recently spent some time learning about the life and work of English writer and philosopher of optimism Colin Wilson. My two favorite resources on him were Gary Lachman's wonderful book "Beyond the Robot: The Life and Work of Colin Wilson" and Wilson's own final book and summary of his thought, "Super Consciousness: The Quest for the Peak Experience."
Ultimately, Wilson didn't convince me that a pessimistic view of life is wrong, but I still greatly enjoyed reading him.If you asked me what is the basis of all my work it's the feeling there's something basically wrong with human beings. Human beings are like grandfather clocks driven by watch springs. Our powers appear to be taken away from us by something. A glib, ungenerous biographer might conclude Wilson's entire oeuvre and unremitting emphasis on optimism and life affirmation was a reaction to his long teenage depression, a manic, lifelong effort to keep his cosmic anxiety at bay. That someone might work toward an alternative to depression rather than accept it, as some do, as an ultimate truth about reality, seems a more perceptive and reasonable assessment.
–Gary LachmanWilson called his philosophy "new existentialism" or "phenomenological existentialism", and maintained his life work was "that of a philosopher, and (his) purpose to create a new and optimistic existentialism".https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Wilson
Two brutal but interesting articles by hostile mainstream writers:>'Now they will realise that I am a genius' https://www.theguardian.com/books/2004/may/30/biography.features1>Colin Wilson, overpriced at nothing. Phil Baker on an angry existentialist who found Shakespeare ‘second-rate’ and Beckett ‘half-witted’ https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/overpriced-at-nothing/
And a fun, sympathetic one:>Philosopher of Optimism Endures Negative Delugehttps://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/17/books/philosopher-of-optimism-endures-negative-deluge.html
A website with great pieces on Wilson by a sympathetic academic:https://colinwilsononline.com/philosophy-4/https://colinwilsononline.com/critique-2/
thanks for cluing me into this fellow
Currently reading Canti by Leopardi. He conveys his radical pessimism regarding human condition with intense lyrical beauty. After enlightenment, progress, science and reason appear as the new beacons for humanity to follow, but to Leopardi this is a disaster: the world loses its magic and charm (a mere substance to be used now) and consequently human life, stripped from its fundations and thrown into the void, turns meaningless. Delusions are needed to live, otherwise, overwhelmed by the void, we fell into despair. That's the tragic condition of human life, self awareness is a great burden.
"You, Ariosto, meanwhile, were born to sweet
dreams, and the primal sun, shone
on your face, carefree singer of love and arms,
who filled life with happy illusions,
in an age less sad than ours:
Italy’s new hope. O chambers, O towers,
O ladies, O cavaliers,
O gardens, O palaces, thinking of you,
my mind is lost in a thousand
empty pleasures. Vanities, lovely follies,
and strange thoughts,
filled human life: what remains, now the leaves
are stripped from things? Only the certainty
of seeing all is empty, except sadness. "
And when you learn about his life, Leopardi gets even more poetic and tragic. He was the son of a severe and possessive mother, he spent his whole childhood and adolescence reading the classics and learning languages inside the family library and he was weak and crippled since birth.
Principles of Human knowledge is an epistemological, not a metaphysics text, and in any case metaphysics is a branch of philosophy
I discovered him from that pessimism philosophy book
Should I get a e-reader or just keep buying $5 books at Half Price Books?
Its on my list, because I wanna be able to blame my DNA, and not hold any of my personal decisions responsible
That's not quite the complete message he wants to send, I think, though I was personally disturbed and saddened to learn about the power over our lives that genes plus random environmental effects have.
Plomin repeatedly says things like, "Genes aren't destiny, but they're the main systematic force in life."
He wants the reader to not interpret all this too fatalistically, but he also hopes that by understanding the power of genes plus random environmental effects we will be less hard on ourselves, our parents, and strangers.
That's my understanding of the book anyway, I've always been poor at understanding even simplified popular science concepts.
This lecture by Wilson is very good and I think a fine introduction to his intellectual project
just started the LOTR trilogy.
I know I'm in for the long haul - is it worth it? Thoughts?
>>47782>understanding the power of genes plus random environmental effects we will be less hard on ourselves, our parents, and strangers.
Actually it'll help us blame everything on our parents; even the nurture part is also their fault
I like it, but maybe you should read the Hobbit first to get a feel for Tolkien.
andrew yang's war on normal people
If you like solid world building and lore within a good, though rather long, story then it is very worth it. There is a reason it has had such a deep cultural impact.
How long do you spend reading per day?
I have not read much in 2019, but for the last several years I read about five or six hours per day. I also take reading notes and make photocopies. It's fun to look over these journals and folders every few months. I'm autistic and compiling information like this is really soothing in a way.
I'm a hikki wiz and this has been a great, inexpensive hobby for me.
Damn that's impressive, I struggle to hit 1 hour a day
Usually two or three. It also depends on how I'm feeling that day. If I'm tired or feeling like shit I don't really grasp what I'm reading, so I skip that day.
Usually around an hour. Unless the book is the kind that captures my attention and makes me want to keep reading. I am reading the Diary of sir Alanbrooke and that is fairly interesting so I have been reading for 3 or 4 hours these last few days(it's a long book).
what about the crossdressing?
Also false, according to Weiner. "The allegation rests on third-hand hearsay from highly unreliable sources."
I feel a little late in just now getting into Lovecraft at my age, but damn, he's pretty fucking amazing. Few writers feel so of their time and ahead of their time, at the same time.
Interesting fella indeed. Lots of conspiracies from his sexuality to his ancestry.
Finished reading The Book of Disquiet.
I heard a lot of good things about it over the years, here and on other imageboards, and I wasn't disappointed. Even translated to English his prose and descriptions are very beautiful.
Honestly didn't expect to relate to some of his writings as much as I did, though. Reading "Funeral March for Ludwig II, King of Bavaria" last night hit me like a brick.
>'What do you have,’ she said, ‘that binds you to life? Love doesn’t follow you, glory doesn’t seek you, and power doesn’t find you. The house that you inherited was in ruins. The lands you received had already lost their first fruits to frost, and the sun had withered their promises. You have never found water in your farm’s well. And before you ever saw them, the leaves had all rotted in your pools; weeds covered the paths and walkways where your feet had never trod.
>'But in my domain, where only the night reigns, you will be consoled, for your hopes will have ceased; you’ll be able to forget, for your desire will have died; you will finally rest, for you’ll have no life.’
>And she showed me the futility of hoping for better days when one isn’t born with a soul that can know better days. She showed me how dreaming never consoles, for life hurts all the more when we wake up. She showed me how sleep gives no rest, for it is haunted by phantoms, shadows of things, ghosts of gestures, stillborn desires, the flotsam from the shipwreck of living.
>And as she spoke, she slowly folded up – more slowly than ever – her rugs which tempted my eyes, her silks which my soul coveted, and the linens of her altarpieces, where my tears were already falling.
>'Why try to be like others if you’re condemned to being yourself? Why laugh if, when you laugh, even your genuine happiness is false, since it is born of forgetting who you are? Why cry if you feel it’s of no use, and if you cry not because tears console you but because it grieves you that they don’t?
I can't help but be curious as to how you go about organizing your information.>>48435
Thanks, that makes me want to read it. I've also heard about it many years ago and have it but never got around to reading it.
There's a book called Blood & Mistletoe: The History of Druids in Britain. There's actually very little known about druids so I'm hoping to find out more about them in this book.
I don't really have an organizing system.
I have a messy, disordered mind, and my notebooks reflect that unfortunate fact! That Druid book looks interesting, going to check it out soon, thanks.
You won't believe how thankful I am for your recommendation. I generally dislike reading, more so if it's something modernist, yet I decided to give this book a try anyway after reading the small excerpt in your post. And this book is truly something else. It rarely makes sense, it doesn't have to, but I enjoy it anyway, I reread certain passages, I often find myself unwittingly closing the book, dazzled at how accurately the book mirrors my own thoughts. It's a great read so far.
This excerpt was an enchanting read, thank you for posting it. I'm going to read this book after I finish the book I'm currently reading.
>>47198>Depressive Realism>Keeping Ourselves in the Dark
Can you ummm write down like a summerised list of core statements from those books? Would be cool.>>48435
I guess Cioran and Ligotti made me a bit edgelord. The first couple of pages were promising. But then he went on describing (in a cringy artsy way) how fucking beautiful and fullfiling his shitty job is. Life is hell, but writing down useless numbers in documents is AMAZING. I dropped it there, and from your excerpts it seems like fartsy stuff continued.>>47796
Finally started too. Well… when i was a teenager, everyone told me how Dragonlance and Sword of Truth are trash, and LOTR is "true" fantasy.
It's boring. I think it would be even worse, if i haven't seen movies before.
I'm not that good at English to write down my thoughts, but that is what my impression of half of what's going on there: "Gendalf the Gray also known as Olórin the BlaBlaBla sat on his horse named Shadowfax, descendant of Felaróf, of the race of the long-lived Mearas, whose ancestors were brought from the West by Oromë, whom Rohirrim called king of horses, and elves called him whateverthefuck, but in gnomes legends he was SilverAss of MoonButthole, depending on which tribe of gnomes you choose, and suddenly the old wizard dropped his sword, Glamdring, also called the Foe-hammer, also called Beater by the Goblins, and DickScratcher by Crab People, forged for Turgon, the King of Gondolin during the First Age, and said "Oh, damn"."
If Pessoa was around today, I think there's a serious chance he would be a NEET wasting all his time on the computer.
>>48617>The first couple of pages were promising. But then he went on describing (in a cringy artsy way) how fucking beautiful and fullfiling his shitty job is. Life is hell, but writing down useless numbers in documents is AMAZING. I dropped it there, and from your excerpts it seems like fartsy stuff continued.
He talks of his job this way because it could have been worse. It pays well, the workload is okay, his colleagues are nice and are rarely obnoxious, he gets to travel a bit, and to daydream on a balcony with a nice view of the street and even write his thoughts during breaks and in-between his work.>>48618
>>48617>But then he went on describing (in a cringy artsy way) how fucking beautiful and fullfiling his shitty job is.
Firstly it wasn't his real job, the book was written from the perspectives of different personas he created. Vasquez and his co-workers were also made up. But of course it was probably based on real experiences, as he did work at a mercantile company at one point in his life.
Secondly I don't think he ever really glorified his job, it was mainly just him coping by daydreaming about things he saw in the office or people out the window. The job may be monotonous as fuck but because of that it allows him to dream like he does, transporting him to different worlds where he can be someone else.
To me the beauty of his writings comes from his understanding of life as a negative, yet still managing to portray beauty through his prose. I'm too lazy to pull out example passages right now but there are some really good ones, descriptions of nature of of his daydreaming, and the stories he makes up for people he sees passing by, or describing abstract sensations. Even the way he writes about his isolation is beautiful to me. The book is depressing but there's also an odd kind of comfort that comes with it, and to me that's what makes it special.
I know it isn't actually reading but I figgured this is the appropreate place to vent about it.
I recently started listening to the audio book of atlas shrugged. After years of having people tell me about it and give their interpretations and opinions on it for years both good and bad I fugured I owed it to myself to "read it" and see what I personally got out of it.
It isn't that I am too lazy to read it normally, but I find listening to a book singing the praises of capitalism while at work more fitting then spending my leisure time grinding through it.
I was struck by 3 main things even in the first chapter about the book.
1. that Ayn Rand is not a very good writer.
In fact her writing has all the hallmarks of the same things that make me cringe when I read female written fan fiction. Including overly detailed romantic and sexual fantasies involving the extremely obvious idealized self insert.
2.that a lot of the praise the book gets is probably due to few books delivering the message id delivers rather then how well that message was delivered.
It pounds it's point into the dirt and beats the dead horse that was killed by choking it on strawmen shoved down it's gullet
Which brings me to…
3. Nearly all the characters are 1 dimensional cliches and the story is cartoonish in it's simplicity.
I can kind of deal with this (long time anime and cartoon fan so I am used to it) but the fact that she goes on for so long and stretches these already flat characters so thing, they just aren't suitable for the task to keep the story interesting as in any given situation after they are introduced you already can predict how they will reacted.
All that said I think if it wasn't quite so overly long (the audio version I got book is literally 55 hours long) and redundant in message I could actually enjoy the story, if for no other reason then it's novelty as I don't really see too many stories with such message. Nor one that goes to such comedic pains to parody the "parasites" of the world.
I also like that it brings new understanding a game I enjoyed which was a direct rebuttable of this book in perpendicular (bioshock). In fact I think as celebration once I finish this book I think I will give it another play-though. Good game.
Really meh book.
I read the master of go by Kawabata a couple of years ago in English. I thought it was awesome. Not sure if you will get as much out of it if you don't understand the board game but I think you might still enjoy it.
Thanks, I was planning on reading that one and The Sound of the Mountain next, since those are the ones I've seen praised most. Don't know anything about Go really but I guess I'll read up on the rules quickly before starting.
Also might try Thousand Cranes while I'm at it, I read it years ago in English and while it wasn't as good as Snow Country I still liked it.
Cool, I would enjoy hearing what you think of it. I should read some more of his books as well, although I understand that Master of Go is considerably different than his other works.
The Old Man and the Sea is boring. It is trite. I daresay nothing actually happened in the book. I never felt that Santiago was in danger, and I disagree with the fatalist message. I have no idea how this won any award. It is bloated and childishly simple, and the dialogue is strange and alien and every sentence is long and without commas. I have read none of Hemingway's other work or knowledge of his personal life, but I don't believe having such knowledge would endear me any more to this book.
5 pages into Unabomber's manifesto and it's already one of the most eye-opening things I've ever read.
I finaly got around to read a few books as I didn'thave internet for the entire week. I used the archive one wiz posted a while back.
First read Pet Semetary. I enjoyed it, it was rather spooky. The foreshadowing was good and I got the chills while reading certain passages. I really pitied the Zelda loli though. She suffered so much and was almost villified through the story. I saw her more like a tragic character, she was innocent and just got dealt a horrible existence by the demiure. I almost felt like crying for her instead of being scared.
Then I read The Orphans of the Sky. Good book as well, very well-written. I liked the absolute lack of female characters. It was like they were cattle or something, didn't have any dialogues. Satisfactory ending, good environment building, enjoyable story.
I also read The Stranger by Camus. I found it interesting to compare the protagonist with myself due to the focus on his inner thoughts. I had a lot in common with his detached apathetic attitude of just taking things as they come. Also I found the absurdity of being dealt a death sentence basically for not displaying any emotions at his mother's funeral a good indication of how society ostracizes all those who are different. I could very well see myself in his shoes.
Then I read The Day of the Triffids. Enjoyed it probably the most of all the books. Read it in one afternoon. Not much to say, but that it's a well-written piece of fiction with an interesting story where you're curious of how it will develop, so you just keep reading on.
Lastly I read the first book of the Hitchhiker's guide series. I did enjoy it and did chuckle a few times, however I found it slightly overrated and a lot of the jokes kinda childish/forced. I'll probably give the sequels a chance later as well, just out of curiosity.
And I finally finished Atlas Shrugged.
Overall it was ok.
What I liked:
I actually liked many of the long winded rants and speeches. Probably the best part of the book to me if I am being honest.
What I didn't like:
the romantic and sexual escapades of Ayn Rand's obvious self insert. Super cringy.
Takes way too long to get to the point and oddly enough the writing has many of the flaws I see in charicter writing in anime.
A prime example of this is it the over an hour long description of the details leading up to a slow motion train disaster. As I stated before this book takes a point and beats it to death, reanimates its corpse, then beats it to death again just to make sure.
Not sure what to read/listen to next.
Anyone got a recommendation for someone who sort of liked Atlas Shrugged?
based on all you said, seems pointless to read more fiction, might as well just read nonfiction treatises where its nothing but the speeches
Thanks for the recommendation. How much did it cost?
I'm reading Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep right now, since I enjoyed Blade Runner 2049.
It's a fantastic series. Loved it as a kid and recently re-read Fellowship and enjoyed it greatly. In some ways it's the archetypal heroic story, i.e. an orphan boy going out into the big wide world in order to save it. But it's very well written.
I can't remember if it was me who made this post, but I'm also reading Blood & Mistletoe right now. It's quite interesting so far, although the author makes it clear early on that very little evidence (comparatively speaking) exists about the druids.
I recommend the biographical books on Ted Kaczynski also. Harvard and the Unabomber and Every Last Tie are very interesting books about his life.
I bought my copy on Amazon (USA) for about $50, which is very pricey for me. I don't regret paying that much for it, but I'm still a bit annoyed at the publisher for making a short paperback book so expensive.
Kind of took your advice. "Reading" Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Really digging it so far.
New Eugenics program when? Can't wait to be gassed, my life has been a whack.
I guess it's an academic book. I buy a book like that maybe twice a year but hate paying so much.
Any other books that you would recommend?
Here are some books I recommended in the Thomas Ligotti thread over on /lounge/.
-Cioran "The Trouble with Being Born"
-Saltus "A Philosophy of Disenchantment"
-Benatar "The Human Predicament"
-Schopenhauer "Essays and Aphorisms"
-John Gray "Straw Dogs: Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals" and nearly all his other recent books for that matter
-R. Raj Singh "Death, Contemplation, and Schopenhauer"
-Donald A. Crosby "The Specter of the Absurd"
-Georges Minois "History of Suicide"
-Alan Pratt "The Dark Side: Thoughts on the futility of Life from the Ancients Greeks to the Present"
Thank you, kind Wiz.
Is the Georges Minois quite detailed and well referenced? Only I have a book called The Ethics of Suicide (about 600 big pages) and it basically provides a brief summary of different cultures and philosophers and their thoughts on suicide. Pretty interesting.
No problem, wiz. Yes, I thought it was a fairly detailed survey of the subject. IIRC it seemed to me at the time that the author had done quite a lot of research. It's published by Johns Hopkins University Press. I also remember it being a pleasure to read. Highly recommended.
There was a similar book I checked out called 'Farewell to the World: A History of Suicide.' I didn't enjoy it as much, but you might also want to give it a look.
>>48702>I disagree with the fatalist message
I don't remember any fatalism in that story
If you liked Day of the Triffids I would recommend John Wyndham's other novels, they are very solid particularly The Midwich Cuckoos
Thanks for the recommendation. I will.
i've been reading books on finance and money management in case my mother kicks me the fuck out
total money makeover
99 principles of money management
rich dad poor dad
i ignore all the normie shit
I am reading https://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-10-Lessons-Grand-Tour/dp/1591026865
This is kind of different from other math books that I read in my life
I've been reading a history book and enjoying it. However I can't help but think it's a waste of time since I'll forget most of the details as time passes anyway. Retention requires you to either use the information in some activity or have a deep impression of it. I'll never have a situation where I have to make use of historical knowledges and things that leaves impressions on me are minute compared to the body of information consumed. It's a shame that for example, that details of spartan culture and history will be reduced to "Oh the spartans, they're that tough guys." and maybe some factoids like how they whip young boys or whatever.
Why are you buying public domain books, wiz?
Because I'm tired of looking at a screen after 8 hours of work. Also, twice a week I spend 3 hours travelling and you have to fight the boredom somehow. My "normal" phone can't read pdfs too.
When I experience that I just read again and again until I get it.
part of me kind of wants to start reading (Edith Grossman's translation of) Don Quixote, but I'm reluctant to do so for a couple of reasons- one being that there's every possibility that I'll give up before making it through the first chapter, as usually happens whenever I try to get back into reading.>>48617>It's boring. I think it would be even worse, if i haven't seen movies before.
Fair assessment, from what I recall of my last go at it>I'm not that good at English to write down my thoughts, but that is what my impression of half of what's going on there
not bad, but it needs one or two more songs and three or four more tangents about pipeweed.
What books about thieves/breaking into houses and other secured places at the risk of being seen do wizards know and can recommend? I found out only recently how much I adore these kind of situations in media and fiction.
I'm currently reading Marnie by Winston Graham. It is about a succubus who is disgusted by sexuality and is a pathological liar and a kleptomaniac. I enjoy it very much. She is kind of like waifu material for us wizards.
More detail please?
I haven't read it all but basically it's an anthropology about the existence of class attitudes, the underlying message being that our "civilized" forms of emulation are just evolutions of the warlike culture of pre-industrial savagery. So that, for example, the act of conspicuous consumption (author is the father of that term btw) is just the civilized man's way to signal his superior person (by signaling his superior personal wealth) in the way that war trophies did for primitive man. The author was a professor (of what I don't remember) whose fearsome scholarship shows. I don't think there was ever an accepted debunking of anything in his book.
It seems Pessoa has found his way into many wizards' hearts.
Also, wish I could travel to Portugal someday.
>>48946>it needs one or two more songs and three or four more tangents about pipeweed
btw holy shit, someone agreed with me on the internet, that's new
Are you Portuguese?
I love Pessoa, glad to see so many other Wizards enjoy his work.
Fellow Wizs I have an idea that may be quite fun and bring the board a little closer together temporarily. Would anyone be interested in contributing to an audiobook reading of The Book of Disquiet?
We can figure out how many people from across Wizchan would like to contribute, and then edit and upload the book in its entirety, read aloud quite fittingly by countless anonymous voices.
I’m up for it! That sounds like fun.
Thanks for the rec.
Currently reading Capital by Karl Marx, just finished the first volume of the three that make up the first book in my edition. I find it dense sometimes but also extremely interesting and sometimes even funny. It's also very rewarding to understand deeply the theory he developed, to join all the pieces and see how each concept contains the following. It sounds like mumbo-jamboo when I say it but it's actually very pleasant to see it.>>48946
I read Quixote in its original language since I'm from a latin american country, so I don't know if this applies for the translation, but I found Don Quixote to be an extremely funny and hilarious book. I genuinely laugh out loud out of it. Yes, it's very long and in the first volume you can find dozens of miny stories that are like short novels with no relation to the main story. This can be dense but I found each of these stories extremely interesting, complex and funny at the same time. It's one of the books I enjoyed the most. You won't regret it anon. Also, the ending is incredibly emotive and I cried with it.
Sounds like fun but the end result is going to be disappointing. The audio quality being a particularly big concern.
Theres a fun section in "Primitive Accumulation" about all the draconian ways the English state punished 1500s NEETs to discipline them to be wageslaves
Ok, I am starting to get tired of straight up philosophy books.
Went through all the major stoics and the last couple of books I was just bored once I basically already knew the base philosophy.
I think I would enjoy something a bit more narrative in structure, even if it still is out to make a certain philosophical point.
Something like Atlas Shrugged, Animal Farm, or Brave New World.
Fahrenheit 451, Dune (kinda), A clockwork orange, and maybe starship troopers.
I have already read 451, which I did like quite a bit.
I watched the movies of the other 3.
Are the books different enough to justify giving them a shot?
I really wasn't a fan of Dune (the movie) at all. And starship troopers only had the action movie appeal to me. The actual philosophical and political ideas behind the movie were pretty weak.
The dune movie was universally panned, so I would say give the book a shot. Starship troopers still has a bit of an action focus but goes way more into detail about their society. Also clockwork orange in my opinion is good enough to give it a second go.
Alright, thanks for the recommendations then.
>>49133>First off, I want to read the entire Bible in Japanese
Why? You'd just be reading a translation of a translation. What could be gained?
Probably practice with somewhat familiar material.
Just got done with Starship Troopers. The book is a hell of a lot better then the movies, which are brain dead in comparisons.
I enjoyed it a lot, even if I strongly disagree with the philosophy of the author the story is still very entertaining and the way the argument and ideas he lays out are interesting.
Lastly the Mobile Infantry are awesome and kind of make me wish that Hollywood would try to do a book accurate remake to show off those mech-suits in their full glory.
said. I'm learning Japanese and I just wanted a reference.
>>49134>What could be gained?
the manga panels
>>49133>I want to read the entire Bible in Japanese, but I haven't even read the full book in English
I gave up after the Book of Daniel, only the minor prophets remain but I just can't enjoy it. The prophets are all about God basically threatening Israel/Judah over and over again, this love-hate relationship really starts to drag after a while.>>49114>Went through all the major stoics and the last couple of books I was just bored once I basically already knew the base philosophy
This is me when it comes to reading any kind of philosophy. Once you grasp the basic idea behind it the whole thing will be really predictable and boring.
You joke but they actually have manga adaptations of tons of western classics now. Jane eyre, the count of monte cristo, tom sawyer, the scarlet letter, etc. It's bizarre.
don't forget mein kampf
Not really a manga, but Marvel came out with a Dracula graphic novel with all the blood, guts, gore, and horror of the original novel. It was amazing!
The new Testament gets really interesting though. Specifically the book of Acts. The adventures written down are amazing!
my favorite Russian book has recently been translated into English, though judging by the preface the translation is mediocre
you can buy it here https://books.friesenpress.com/store/title/119734000093596666/V.-K.-Tarasov-Technology-Of-Life
the book itself is a list of wisdoms, the first chapter is very short and representative, it proves that one cannot find out the meaning of an activity if they don't go beyond it, it gives an example:
a man took a glass of water and took a sip. maybe he was thirsty, maybe he wanted to taste the water, maybe he wanted to fall asleep and never wake up. we can't know the meaning of the activity within the activity, we must go beyond it, same applies to the meaning of life.
if you like this kind of thoughts and wisdoms you should check out this book (and upload it somewhere so more people could enjoy it)
Comfy as fuck.
Portugal seems to be a good country for Wizards.
Sex and Character argues that all people are composed of a mixture of male and female substance, and attempts to support this view scientifically. The male aspect is active, productive, conscious and moral/logical, while the female aspect is passive, unproductive, unconscious and amoral/alogical. Weininger argues that emancipation is only possible for the "masculine succubus", e.g. some lesbians, and that the female life is consumed with the sexual function: both with the act, as a prostitute, and the product, as a mother. succubus is a "matchmaker". By contrast, the duty of the male, or the masculine aspect of personality, is to strive to become a genius, and to forgo sexuality for an abstract love of the absolute, God, which he finds within himself.
>>49169>Portugal seems to be a good country for Wizards
No, not really.
>>49170>the female aspect is passive, unproductive, unconscious and amoral/alogical
So most of us wizards are females actually? That would explain lots of things…>>49162
I read the New Testament before I started reading the Old. And I agree that it is superior compared to the OT.
>>49177>So most of us wizards are females actually? That would explain lots of things…
I'll answer your question once I have finished the book.
Finished reading Sengoku Jidai. Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and Ieyasu: Three Unifiers of Japan.
I've been interested in Sengoku era Japan ever since I played the Samurai Warriors games as a kid, but I never bothered to pick up a book about it so all my knowledge was based on the games and reading a couple of Wikipedia articles about the battles or daimyo/samurai that interested me. Reading this was great though since it filled in a lot of the blanks and corrected some inaccuracies I had gotten from the games.
The main focus, of course is on the 3 men in the title and the various campaigns and battles during the Sengoku era, but it also included a lot of chapters on other things like foreign presence in Japan (the Portugese merchants and missionaries and, later, the Dutch), social structure at the time, the influence of religion (especially on the many Buddhists and the Ikko Ikki who opposed Nobunaga), and some historical details that lend more character to the major figures of the time.
Would definitely recommend to anyone interested in Japanese history or the Sengoku era specifically. I didn't find it to be at all dry or boring, either, like some history books I've read are.
Men aren't getting into stem for moral or spiritual reasons.
They're doing it because they have the pre-requisite aptitude in pattern recognition, quantitative and spacial reasoning. (from nature or nurture or both).
And because they have the aesthetic tastes for the processes and products.
succubi don't care much about bulldozers, racecars, steel mills, guns, bugs, bridges, container terminals, oil refineries, submarines and spaceships.
The potential to be around these things or involved in their production can't serve as motivation for study.
>>49196>succubi don't care much about bulldozers, racecars, steel mills, guns, bugs, bridges, container terminals, oil refineries, submarines and spaceships.
I mean to be fair neither do I lol.
Currently reading Men at Arms, the second in the City Watch series of the Discworld books. It's probably my 8th Discworld book in total. One of the better written ones, you can see how much Pratchett improved over the series. Beautiful use of language to create humour in the lines.
any books on this subject?
i am trying to find an ebook of this
I could never get into Discworld- I always ended up being indifferent to the heroes and more often than not empathizing with and rooting for the villains.
Finished Frankenstein yesterday. It was nothing like the movie.
Incan understand how it's not for everyone. Pratchett plays with the idea of what makes a hero or a villain, and that subversion of expectation can put people off.
If you haven't, maybe try Mort. Death is a great character.
He sounds like an edgy contrarian faggot. That'll put all of his public shenanigans in context. He's just being as controversial as possible for attention.
My boss is on holidays for the next two weeks. I've worked with him for five years. Do you think it's rude if I resign over email while he's on holiday?
>>49278>i never hear people bring this up when talking about diogenes
because all his funny antics are way more interesting
Read 2 of Shakespeare's plays last week, Hamlet and King Lear (well King Lear was a reread). I didn't like Hamlet as much as King Lear or Richard III but it was still good. The part where there's a clown carelessly chucking around skulls he uncovers while digging a grave and Hamlet starts lamenting on how even great people have the same end - recycled into material for banal purposes, like a stopper or food for the worms - was really good.
King Lear is probably my favorite Shakespeare play of those I've read so far, though.
Now going through Plato's Complete Works. I've read about half his dialogues over the years but never more than a few at a time, so I'm going through and reading/rereading all of them.
Euthypro, Apology, Crito, and Phaedo were all a reread. All good and not too complicated (if anyone wants to start with Plato I'd recommend these 4 first). Some of the arguments in Phaedo - specifically the one about all souls of the living coming from souls of the dead, and to lesser extent the one about knowledge being recollection - seemed more tenuous than when I read it years ago, but I guess he wrote a lot of the arguments like that to get people to think critically and come up with their own theories.
Cratylus I read for the first time yesterday. The subject is correctness of names and naming conventions. A lot of it drags on because it's just Socrates trying to find the etymology of various words (all in Greek of course). But in the beginning and towards the end there are some interesting points brought up.
Theaetetus I reread today. I remembered it being really good and wasn't disappointed. Along with Parmenides it's probably my favorite. Lot of insights into knowledge, even if it doesn't reach a conclusive answer, and challenges a lot of the views of some older philosophers.
There's also a tangent somewhere near the middle, about the difference between a philosopher and the average 'skilled' man, i.e. a defender in the courts. Rereading this I was kind of shocked at how similar parts sound to some things I've read in Zhuangzi's works and the Bhagavad Gita.
>This accounts, my friend, for the behavior of such a man when he comes into contact with his fellows, either privately with individuals or in public life, as I was saying at the beginning. Whenever he is obliged, in a law court or elsewhere, to discuss the things that lie at his feet and before his eyes, he causes entertainment not only to Thracian servant-succubi but to all the common herd, by tumbling into wells and every sort of difficulty through his lack of experience. His clumsiness is awful and gets him a reputation for fatuousness. On occasions when personal scandal is the topic of conversation, he never has anything at all of his own to contribute; he knows nothing to the detriment of anyone, never having paid any attention to this subject—a lack of resource which makes him look very comic. And again, when compliments are in order, and self-laudation, his evident amusement—which is by no means a pose but perfectly genuine—is regarded as idiotic. When he hears the praises of a despot or a king being sung, it sounds to his ears as if some stock-breeder were being congratulated—some keeper of pigs or sheep, or cows that are giving him plenty of milk; only he thinks that the rulers have a more difficult and treacherous animal to rear and milk, and that such a man, having no spare time, is bound to become quite as coarse and uncultivated as the stock-farmer; for the castle of the one is as much a prison as the mountain fold of the other. When he hears talk of land—that so-and-so has a property of ten thousand acres or more, and what a vast property that is, it sounds to him like a tiny plot, used as he is to envisage the whole earth. When his companions become lyric on the subject of great families, and exclaim at the noble blood of one who can point to seven wealthy ancestors, he thinks that such praise comes of a dim and limited vision, an inability, through lack of education, to take a steady view of the whole, and to calculate that every single man has countless hosts of ancestors, near and remote,among whom are to be found,in every instance, rich men and beggars, kings and slaves, Greeks and foreigners, by the thousand. When men pride themselves upon a pedigree of twenty-five ancestors, and trace their descent back to Heracles the son of Amphitryon, they seem to him to be taking a curious interest in trifles. As for the twenty-fifth ancestor of Amphitryon, what he may have been is merely a matter of luck, and similarly with the fiftieth before him again. How ridiculous, he thinks, not to be able to work that out, and get rid of the gaping vanity of a silly mind.
>But it is not possible, Theodorus, that evil should be destroyed—for there must always be something opposed to the good; nor is it possible that it should have its seat in heaven. But it must inevitably haunt human life, and prowl about this earth. That is why a man should make all haste to escape from earth to heaven; and escape means becoming as like God as possible; and a man becomes like God when he becomes just and pious, with understanding. But it is not at all an easy matter, my good friend, to persuade men that it is not for the reasons commonly alleged that one should try to escape from wickedness and pursue virtue. It is not in order to avoid a bad reputation and obtain a good one that virtue should be practiced and not vice; that, it seems to me, is only what men call ‘old wives’talk’.
>Let us try to put the truth in this way. In God there is no sort of wrong whatsoever; he is supremely just, and the thing most like him is the man who has become as just as it lies in human nature to be. And it is here that we see whether a man is truly able, or truly a weakling and a nonentity; for it is the realization of this that is genuine wisdom and goodness, while the failure to realize it is manifest folly and wickedness. Everything else that passes for ability and wisdom has a sort of commonness—in those who wield political power a poor cheap show, in the manual workers a matter of mechanical routine. If, therefore, one meets a man who practices injustice and is blasphemous in his talk or in his life, the best thing for him by far is that one should never grant that there is any sort of ability about his unscrupulousness; such men are ready enough to glory in the reproach, and think that it means not that they are mere rubbish, cumbering the ground to no purpose, but that they have the kind of qualities that are necessary for survival in the community. We must therefore tell them the truth—that their very ignorance of their true state fixes them the more firmly therein. For they do not know what is the penalty of injustice, which is the last thing of which a man should be ignorant. It is not what they suppose—scourging and death—things which they may entirely evade in spite of their wrongdoing. It is a penalty from which there is no escape.
Anyways also going through Aristotle's Complete Works and supplementing both that and Plato with the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy articles and some of Sadler's lectures on youtube.
Are any of you into the physical aspects of books?
tbh most of the books I read are on the PC or audio. But since 2016 I've also acquired a fairly large library of hardcopy books. I guess reading about ancient and medieval manuscripts, and how painstakingly they were prepared by volcel monk scribes like ourselves, and how rare and sacred they were. The tragedy of lost books. The scriptorium in the Name of the Rose. I've become fascinated with books as physical objects. And also collected some old ones from the 1800s and 1700s.
There doesn't seem to be much of a market for used books, so its been a relatively cheap hobby for me, my version of stamp collecting.
I was thinking of reading Plato's dialogues backwards starting with the Theateus.
It could make sense for a number of reasons. For one it was the 1st dialogue that Latin Europe had access to until the Rennassance. It covers the metaphysical topics I'm most interested in.
And I'm listening to the dialogues on audio, so it might take me a while to get used to the format, so I thought a more Aristotle-type treatise, in which the dialectic is pushed into the background, might be a good way to ease me into plato.
Im on Plotinus now and its tough going
I like physical books but I tend to opt for pirating copies online and loading them on an e-reader. I still prefer the 'weight' of actual books and the feel of turning the pages but I don't have the space or financial leeway to really seriously collect. Well mainly just space actually, since most used books are really cheap.
I do have a few slightly old ones but nothing from earlier than the 20th century.
First one is 'Japan's Military Masters', which was published in 1943. The author was an ambassador in Japan and was there in the several years before the war so he wrote about the military spirit of Japan - the undying loyalty of every common citizen for the emperor and the traditions they put in place to cement this loyalty, as well the military structure and some of the notable military figures in the Japanese army. It was an interesting read as something written during the time of war. I don't know if everything in it is accurate but given what happened in the next few years I think the guy was pretty on point in his conclusions.
Other one is a collection of several of Nietzsche's major writings (Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Beyond Good and Evil, The Genealogy of Morals, Ecce Homo, and The Birth of Tragedy). I can't find a publication date but someone wrote a note inside the cover saying "1950's edition" (also a lot of other notes written inside so I think it was a student's).
There are a couple of others I have but I think they're also all from the 1950's or later - some biographies on Mao, Hitler, and Mussolini, two volumes of something called "Japan's Imperial Conspiracy", and a book on microbiology.
I don't think there are any good used bookstores by me unfortunately. All the above were things I bought from stores I found while traveling to other states.
Do you buy online or do you have good stores near you?>>49314
You'd be fine starting with Theateus I think, especially if you're already working through Plotinus. The recommendations to start with Euthypro and the others were mainly for people who weren't used to reading philosophy (although they do certainly contain some important ideas, but they don't go too deep into the theory of forms or epistemology, outside of a few short sections). Only thing you might want to read up on is Heraclitus's philosophy and maybe some of Protagoras's, as Plato really works off of and criticizes these 2 throughout the dialogue. But even those aren't absolutely necessary as he sums them up well enough within the dialogue itself.
Reading backwards would definitely be interesting. I'm not too familiar with the chronology of Plato's works but I think a lot of the later ones were criticizing his earlier theories (like Parmenides) so that might trip you up a little.
Plotinus is also one of the philosophers I'm most interested in right now. I'm planning on starting to read him after I finish all of Plato and a few of Aristotle's major works.
I've started rereading books from the library which I previously read on my phone. It's all mainly weebshit, though, so not worth discussing in this thread.
Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn: "Life in itself is a risk which we have to face bravely; all its horrors have a deeper value — war with all its ordeals, hunger, destruction, death, and the inhuman curse of labor and work. Yes, the curse of labor. So it is written in the Bible and its truth reechoes in the hearts of most men. The male is by nature lazy and unambitious. The industrious man is a truly feminine phenomenon.
In male cultures men only work in order to live, but in nations where succubi domineer, men show ambition, zeal for labor, and they frequently work themselves to death firmly believing that they live in order to work.
On account of the fact that ambition is a female characteristic, succubi are always going to be outraged at the sight of potential energies which are not transformed into kinetic energies. The mobile life is urban and female. Haste is not only unmanly, but — as Ortega has demonstrated it — also the very negation of our immortality. The Middle Ages was a period without haste, it was male and timeless."
8chan refugee here, kind of lost at the moment but was pointed here and this place seems comfy enough. 8/r9k/ had a books thread and a list of books that were considered 'robotcore', Notes from Underground (I always thought it was Notes from THE Underground for some reason) being one of them. That, along with the quote from it at the start of American Psycho, inspired me to pick it up, and it came with The Double. So I read both of them and… didn't get it? At the very start of Notes I found it really amusing, but eventually when it became more philosophical I just became lost. The language stopped making sense and I was tripping over every sentence. Part II was a bit better, when it became the actual notes themselves, but I still felt like there were things going above my head. Another thing that threw me was how it finished with him basically saying that his sad life wasn’t interesting enough to read about, but that’s what I’d picked it up hoping to read. Part of me wants to believe that my struggle was because it's a translation and it just didn't come out well in English, but that's probably just looking for excuses to cover up my brainletism. Or perhaps it’s just that this specific translation (Ronald Wilks) was bad? For example, at the end of The Double, Wilks translates: ‘You vil haf kvarters, mit vood, licht, und serfants of vich you do not diserf’, which kind of baffled me, whereas another translation provides the much more coherent ‘You get free quarters, wood, with light, and service, the which you deserve not. After typing this out I realise what a terrible sample I’ve given: a heavily accented German speaking Russian, translated into English, but it’s what’s in my mind since it was at the very end of the book, and I really don’t feel like going back through it to get a better one.
Anyways, onto more lighter reading to hopefully bring my self-esteem back, ‘An Officer and a Spy’ by Robert Harris. I quite like his historical fiction, although I didn’t really like ‘Pompeii’, Rome isn’t really my thing.
I keep going into bookshops and seeing plenty of stuff I'd probably like but I can't decide what I should read, anyone have a way of choosing?
Oh and if anyone has that image that >>49419
mentioned about 'robotcore' books I'd greatly appreciate ti
3 seconds in duckduckgo
lol, never seen it, but inb4 guessed Houellbecq's ode to in.celdom would be there
what a bunch of crap, read Cioran and Ligotti instead.
Read Notes from Underground last year. Tried and failed to read Thus Spake Zarathustra when I was like 12. Reading Metamorphisis right now.
r9k seems very into existentialism and coming of age
I finished reading this today.
His theories on the causes of hikkimori were pretty interesting. Mainly he focused on the individual and family level rather than searching for problems in general society, instead focusing on traditions of filial piety there and mother-son relationships. But he seems to think every hikkikomori really desires reintegration into society. He had handled various cases by the time he wrote this book of course, so for the majority of them I guess he's right. But I think some of them might just be disillusioned with life.
Also wish he had included more details on some of his cases, but to protect privacy he only ever gave fictional ones which were based on a combination of several cases he's dealt with.
I guess this guy wrote another book on anime succubi and otaku so I might read that next.>>49449
I have this chart as well. A couple of others you might enjoy if you like these kinds of books
>The Remains of Day>The Wasp Factory>White Nights
Also if you don't mind poetry try reading Georg Trakl.
is there a depressive non-fiction chart?
i stopped giving a fuck about fictional along time ago
All non-fiction is depressive
Pretty much. Books on biological anthropology and human biology in particular are as depressive and disgusting as one can get.
Read "The Uninhabitable Earth"
Plenty of depressing events in history you could read about. I have some books about prisoners of war or citizens living in war time during the last few years of WWII in Japan.
Also would second the other guy's rec of biological anthropology and human biology if you want more science instead of history. Natural selection is also pretty depressing to think about.
I like to read anthropology
know thy enemy, and all that
I wouldn't say so, not necessarily. Books about technological breakthroughs always restore a small measure of faith in humanity to me, for instance.
What do you think of the Iliad?
All right, I'm fed up with intellectual bullshit and the classics meme. I will only read horror, mystery, fantasy and other 'casual' genres from now on.
Tried to read Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, gave up on both of them. Remind me, why these arrogant assholes are praised so highly? Seriously feels like I'm reading a /lit/-tier shitpost while reading their stuff. So much pretentious elitism and egoism. I mean don't get me wrong, I don't like common people that much either since I am a wizard so I'm incompatible with society but I don't delude myself into thinking that I am so much superior compared to everyone.
Philosophy is such a meme. I'm ashamed that I fell for the bait. And 'le classics' too. Most of them aren't worth half of what society says their worth is. I regret every minute of my life that I spent on 'intellectual' works. Should have read Stephen King instead, I swear.>>49451>Zarathustra
It is just your typical intellectual whining about how misunderstood he is. One of the most overrated things I read, I can say this with confidence - although I haven't finished it either.>>49493
Overrated and too long. But since literature as we know it is built upon it nobody dares to criticize it.
Mein nigger, let me tell you just one word: HPMOR
And it's strange i've rearly seen anyone talking about it on wizchan.
No love for sci-fi?
There is a lot of awesome in that genre.
Any other philosophers you read before Schopenhauer and Nietzsche?
Sci-fi is okay too I guess. Anything is good as long as it is entertaining and not an excuse for ego-stroking like most intellectual works are.>>49499
Bits and pieces here and there, so no, not really. I know you have to start from the greeks, etc, etc. But I wasn't really interested in them, I wanted to read something 'modern'. Well, the only thing related to philosophy that I read from start to finish is The Stranger by Camus.
same. and when i told a wizard i watch 4 movies at once he said its beyond stupid
Do you mean you just have all four play at once? Or do you pause them and resume them one at a time but juggle between four? Cause the former is beyond stupid, the latter less so.
he is saying fapping is better than gfs
I always wonder if it's something about translation from germanic languages.
reminds me of being and time
>>49525>wtf does this even mean?
Even the guy who wrote it would have trouble with your question, that is philosophy for ya. It is just an act for people to appear smart and enlightened.
The latter. >less so
Maybe it's not stupid at all and you people should stop being smug assholes.
I am tempted to pull up all the reasons why it actually is quite stupid but I don't feel like getting banned for being off topic.
Instead I will recommend a book on attention and one on memory.
Attention by wayne wu first edition
The Memory Book by Harry Lorayne and Jerry Lucas
I have got Les Chants de Maldoror if you enjoy pessimism you will like it
In the beginning of the first section Kierkegaard explains that the human self is a relation not simply of the infinite and the finite, but is the result of the self-relation of the unity of the finite and the infinite. In other words, the relation between infinity and finitude becomes a third entity, but this entity is a “negative unity”, not yet a self. The self is the reflexive relation of the negative unity to itself, which he calls a “positive unity”. This self, then, is related to God, which is the creator, because a self must either have caused itself, or been caused by another. So the self is comprised of a series of relations and is ultimately related to God, because Christianity holds that human beings do not create themselves.
Despair, or the sickness, occurs when a self is not based on the equal relation of the infinite and the finite. Because a self is dependent upon its creator, the imbalance is reflected in the relation to the creator. All despair, according to Kierkegaard, is derived from the action of the self, in despair, willing to be itself. That is, rather than resting in the power of God, the self mistakenly believes that it can control its own existence through force of will. This mistake is the root and cause of despair, because a self cannot even will itself out of existence, to die, so “the torment of despair is precisely this inability to die”.
The rest of the text, given over to an explication of the nature of despair full of theoretical examples, of the nature, permutations and consequences of despair, reinforces the description of a state without despair: “in relating itself to itself and in willing to be itself, the self rests transparently in the power that established it”. Despite the dry metaphysical structure that under-girds Kierkegaard's definition of despair, his examples and explanations of the nature of despair include all of the psychological and emotional pain that any person would normally associate with the word “despair.” His effort in this work, however, is to show that there is a secret nature underneath the emotion and psychological affliction of despair. There is a spiritual and metaphysical cause that can be remedied only by faith in God, not willful human machinations.
>>49535>The Memory Book by Harry Lorayne
I was big on him in JRHS and HS, which was like 2002
Prove me wrong, if you can.
What a bunch of bullshit!
Well, start reading it.
The only decent novels are filled with philosophical themes. But it's okay. There's still books such as Harry Potter for you.
>>49553>Well, start reading it.
I've read enough of it to know that it is bullshit. Philosophers - and most wanna-be philosophers like you - don't care about wisdom or truth, just want to feel how smart they are compared to others. Philosophy is a shittier and more boring form of entertainment.>The only decent novels are filled with philosophical themes.
I don't have a problem with "philosophical themes" but I do hate philosophers and what is considered as philosophy because it is nothing but a big circlejerk.>There's still books such as Harry Potter for you.
I don't read HP but I am disgusted by this condescending behavior you and other readers of philosophy like to exhibit so much. So let's assume someone reads HP - what is the matter with it? Some people read HP for entertainment, you read philosophy for entertainment. Get off the high horse, buddy.
Some people like playing around with abstract ideas and systems for its own sake. If you're not on the autistic side, you might naturally assume it's just a ploy to gain social status because you're incapable of understanding their mindset.
>>49559>Got this book for Christmas last year.
Might as well have just yelled STOP BEING NEET VIRGIN and saved themselves the effort
I've been thinking about it for a long time but I don't see any value in learning philosophy, besides personal entertainment. This view of mine has been proven right by the attitudes actual philosophers had in relation to their own philosophical ideas. Just look at Nietzsche and Schopenhauer. Nietzsche preached a life of greatness, made up of great achievements yet his own biggest achievement was getting syphilis. Schopenhauer talked about denying the will to live, living an ascetic life yet he enjoyed life and its pleasures very much, he was an aristocratic playboy whose biggest trouble in life was deciding which opera he should watch next. Even they didn't take their own ideas seriously.>economic ideas
Why should people care about economy and politics if they don't have a say in the matter? The ruling elite decides the course of things, even in the most liberal democracies. What you or me commoners think doesn't matter in the slightest. And ruling classes will always form as long as we live in communities/societies.>If Karl Marx's books had had strong anti genocide paragraphs then maybe
The New Testament is very pacifist in nature yet this fact didn't stop the Christian West from waging wars. My point is, if communism didn't exist as an idea then Mao and others would have found another idea they could have used to control the masses and to justify their deeds.>because if philosophy is bullshit, then what does that make life?
The incomprehensible mess that it is?>>49556
So it is just self-entertainment. Thought so.
What are some good books about boats and pirates?
Treasure Island and Moby Dick are the first that come to mind
Moby Dick is a chore to get through and I am not convinced anyone actually enjoys it.
maybe it captures the boringness of being in a boat.
ive heard it 2nd hand for so many years, but to this day idk if Ahab actually kills Moby or not
Just finished Tim Flannery's mostly wonderful "Europe: A Natural History." I came across a possible historical wizard, the Australian archaeologist Vere Gordon Childe (1892-1957). "[He] was one of the greatest eccentrics to wield an archaeologist's trowel." He was a sickly child and was often bullied by other children. Some have speculated he may have had Asperger's. "Awkward, uncouth and without social graces, Childe seems never to have had a sexual relationship." (p. 240)
He killed himself by jumping off the 1000-metre Govetts Leap in the Blue Mountains. His last letter included this, "I have always considered that a sane society would… offer euthanasia as a crowning honor…"
From the wiki: On his death, Childe was praised by his colleague Stuart Piggott as "the greatest prehistorian in Britain and probably the world". The archaeologist Randall H. McGuire later described him as "probably the best known and most cited archaeologist of the twentieth century", an idea echoed by Bruce Trigger, while Barbara McNairn labelled him "one of the most outstanding and influential figures in the discipline". The archaeologist Andrew Sherratt described Childe as occupying "a crucial position in the history" of archaeology. Sherratt also noted that "Childe's output, by any standard, was massive". Over the course of his career, Childe published over twenty books and around 240 scholarly articles.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V._Gordon_Childe
Anything by Joseph Conrad.
I began reading 'A Presocratics Reader' a few days ago (published by Hackett). It is an anthology of various fragments either by or about the presocratic philosophers. I'd never really devled all that deeply into any philosophy from before Plato and Aristotle, so I'm finding the book immensely rewarding; particularly regarding the fragments of Parmenides and Empedocles. Though, my understanding of many of these philosophers is coloured by my reading of some of Heidegger's works, wherein he discusses the presocratics.
Are there any English-language novelists like Ernst Junger?
Thats cool I was just reading the SEP article on the topic. I've been getting more into the classical world in general. Read chapters of Homer and Virgil. Wanted to see the transition from myth.
How can I un-fuck my brain and start reading again? I haven’t been able to read properly since I was a child. I can’t focus, I constantly read lines over and over, and it feels physically painful. It takes me an hour to read 20 pages on a good day.
That being said, reading seems like a very good and comfy hobby so I’d like to get into it.
get rid of all tech, spend a week in agonising boredom, and then reading a book gonna feel like absolute bliss
(but you won't do it)
i do the audiobook gimmick and stare at the wall.
Wont that effect quickly wear off as I use tech again?
I think the idea is to not use tech again.
I had the same problem. The solution is easy: just read at a normal speed, don't re-read things countless times. Trust me, it is hard at first but you will get sucked in after a couple of pages. Don't think, turn your mind off and just read.
Do what >>49730
said and also start small but gradually increase your reading time. So maybe read for couple of 10-15 minute sessions to start and work up from there each day.
Also I would recommend either reading physical books or e-ink. If you read on your computer or tablet it's easy to get distracted and start opening up a browser or checking other things. Reading in another room, away from your computer (and phone if you have one) might also be helpful. I've also found that reading outside can be really nice and beneficial for focus (assuming you're in a secluded spot where no people or cars are around).
I've finished reading all 3000+ pages of In Search of Lost Time and have had the most interesting and dialectical experience. Forgive me for pissing that one anti-Modernist anon off but I must raise my voice in praise for this, plus Proust definitely errs more on the late-Romantic side of things anyway. First off I must say my reading comprehension has improved ten-fold when I got to the end of this. It's almost a complete necessity that it must or your mind will be obliterated to nothing by the time you get around to the 3rd book and never finish. Even some of the most difficult non-fiction that I've attempted now seems somehow easier to parse now when I revisit them, it's like Proust sentences have read their way into my brain. I read a great analogy that to climb Mount Proust you must gingerly step over the corpses that litter the path along the way. It seems of all the authors I've read Proust seems the closest to me along with Pessoa, reminiscing on the truth of childhood from more or less middle age, falling in love with every succubi they even pass on the street only to know they will be sorely disappointed if they could actually meet her, and discovering their vocation late in life among other things. I call it a dialectical experience as even though Proust is similar in many of his most fundamental sentiments many aspects of his life still could not be more different than mine, especially his 20's. I know he holed himself up later in life but for a while he was a complete dandy which I never would even be able to imagine, and good with people in a way that I never will be. And yet it's all so beautiful that anyone should have held inside themselves that novel, even while mingling with the very society he would come to reject wholesale in his books and later life, which reveals glimmers of Truth wherever you look. He just knows people so well that I swear he used some in my own life for his models. If you have Time at all, there should be no excuse not to finish this cycle of novels at least once in your lifetime. The last book will reward you well, and reading the last sentence of Proust is itself an aesthetic pleasure of the first degree.
A small sample of his prose, as you'll see it's max-/comfy/:
>Presently the course of the Vivonne became choked with water-plants. At first they appeared singly, a lily, for instance, which the current, across whose path it had unfortunately grown, would never leave at rest for a moment, so that, like a ferry-boat mechanically propelled, it would drift over to one bank only to return to the other, eternally repeating its double journey. Thrust towards the bank, its stalk would be straightened out, lengthened, strained almost to breaking-point until the current again caught it, its green moorings swung back over their anchorage and brought the unhappy plant to what might fitly be called its starting-point, since it was fated not to rest there a moment before moving off once again. I would still find it there, on one walk after another, always in the same helpless state, suggesting certain victims of neurasthenia, among whom my grandfather would have included my aunt Léonie, who present without modification, year after year, the spectacle of their odd and unaccountable habits, which they always imagine themselves to be on the point of shaking off, but which they always retain to the end; caught in the treadmill of their own maladies and eccentricities, their futile endeavours to escape serve only to actuate its mechanism, to keep in motion the clockwork of their strange, ineluctable, fatal daily round. Such as these was the water-lily, and also like one of those wretches whose peculiar torments, repeated indefinitely throughout eternity, aroused the curiosity of Dante, who would have inquired of them at greater length and in fuller detail from the victims themselves, had not Virgil, striding on ahead, obliged him to hasten after him at full speed, as I must hasten after my parents.
I really like the book of disquiet but can't find anything else like it. Any suggestions, wizzies?
I really do need to continue the Search and read Vol 3. Within a Budding Grove had some really sublime passages, such as those with the tea cake and the oil paintings, but all that content about social maneuvering and succubus stalking kept my interest from being as consistent as when I read Swann's Way.
on the heights of despair
"No Longer Human" is great.
>We all know from experience the illusion of false freedom that comes from breaking out the bonds imposed on us by moral law. We all know that first, false feeling of freedom: it seems as if we entered a larger, more perilous but more interesting world by eating some forbidden fruit. But it is a lie, the same lie our ancestors fell for in Eden. The "larger" world of disobedience turns out to be confining and small and unfree. The criminal or the addict lives in a tiny world; the saint lives in the larger world. Evil looks large and interesting and perilous from afar, but it reveals its true colors from nearby or from within, from experience: tiny and tawdry.
>Not many writers tell the truth here. Modern writers usually miss what Hannah Arendt, in Eichmann in Jerusalem, calls "the banality of evil". How large and interesting the Nazis seem from afar! How many movies and novels have been written about them, romanticizing and glorifying their apparently fascinating evil? But they were really shrunken souls, gray, dull little constricted selves.
>Writers can be classified on a spectrum according to how well they see this truth that morality is freeing and immorality confining. At the lowest extreme is Nietzsche and his followers, like Hesse, whose characters are imprisoned by their dilemma of immoral freedom vs. moral conformity. At the opposite extreme are writes like C.S. Lewis, Charles Williams, and J.R.R. Tolkien, who portray the good-evil conflict (which is the substance of every story in some way) as it really is; they show good as more interesting than evil, not vice versa. The primary reason so few writers are on their end of the spectrum and so many on Nietzsche's end is the false dilemma of conformity vs freedom.
>The root of this, in turn, is usually the fallacy that "conformity" means conformity to society, to man-made laws rather than conformity to natural law, which is God-made, objective, unchangeable, and universal. It is the denial of these moral absolutes that is at the root of the attack on conformity, reducing conformity to a sociological pattern of action or a psychological habit of feeling—conformity to society rather than to truth.
What book is this from? You made me curious.
Making Choices: Practical Wisdom for Everyday Moral Decisions.
I don't like this. It focuses on a useless false dichotomy. Removing moral law leaves both good and evil options, and all shades of grey in between, not just evil.
Humans are the true demons
I would say Demons stand in awe by the horrors human kind can cause to themselves and other living things. You know those stories where demons are trying to open a gate to earth? That makes no fucking sense. Pretty sure it should Demons trying their very best to keep those gates very fucking shut. You know Doomguy going into hell and killing everyone there? That's an accurate depiction of human behavior.
This is the most boring and tired viewpoint.
Are we talking about The Demons by Dostoevsky?
No, I wish.
This is just some dumb magic bullshit trying to blame abortions on an ancient demon.
The only ones who preach the greatness of amorality are people we would call "evil" in a healthy society. Evil loves to lurk behind the mask of amorality, good on the other hand doesn't need a mask.>>49849
Humans are too dumb to be considered real demons.
It seems like Stoicism might be your type of philo read actually.
I'm late in responding but
>Yeah I didn't read the philosophical works that influenced virtually all of subsequent philosophy>I read 2 philosophers and they seemed kind of whiny to me so all philosophy is dumb
Just fucking lol dude
I don't know what your issue with "le classics" was but there's a pretty wide variety literature considered classic. Maybe the particular works you read just didn't resonate with you. Or maybe you're reading too much on the surface level.
Also it's fine to read genre fiction and classics. Not like this is sportsball, you don't have to pick a side, pledge your allegiance and only read one kind of thing. I read a lot of trashy light novels on the side.
He was probably forcing himself to read books he had no personal interest in but felt obliged to read because everybody calls them classics
I feel like such a retard. I constantly buy books and don’t read them. Recently I picked up The Conspiracy Against the Human Race, and I find it incredibly difficult to read. Any advice?
Don't buy more until you've read the ones you have. Don't mind failing to understand some or many of the concepts presented to you, just enjoy and understand whatever you can and keep reading. It gets easier.
I actually forgot where I got my pdf from so I just copied the first result from my google
>It's the year 2100. Humans have colonized the solar system. China and America struggle for control of Mars. The Royal Navy patrols the asteroid belt. Nanotechnology has transformed life on Earth forever, and gene-enhanced humans share the world with artificial intelligences and robotic cybershells. Our solar system has become a setting as exciting and alien as any interstellar empire. Pirate spaceships hijacking black holes . . . sentient computers and artificial "bioroids" demanding human rights . . . nanotechnology and mind control . . . Transhuman Space is cutting-edge science fiction adventure that begins where cyberpunk ends.
I finished 60 pages of Watership Down.
I'm a fifth done.
You are partially right, I was in a bad mood when I posted that. I'm reading philosophical stuff again now and I plan on reading SOME of the "classics", though I'm careful what I spend my time on. But I still think my post holds some truth.>>49863
Yes, the stoics are on my list. I'm interested in them. Actually, I don't dislike Schopenhauer either, he just comes across as a little arrogant but I agree with what he says on lots of subjects. I'm open to almost every kind of philosophy, except Nietzsche's and similar bullshit. He disgusts me.>>49866
Kind of. I was interested in Nietzsche's philosophy until I realized how incompatible it is with me. He reminds me of the worst kind of normals and failed normals - no wonder he is so popular.
First ones great. The others aren't so good but still worth reading. I read the full series and enjoyed them.
No matter how hard I try, I cannot manage to get past a chapter of a book. I wish to read Pessoa, Ligotti, Dostoevsky, and other wonderful authors. But reading just one page is like pulling teeth.
Why don't you start with something lighter? Like novels written for entertainment?>But reading just one page is like pulling teeth.
Elaborate. Do you get distracted or you aren't interested in what you are reading? Or you find it hard to comprehend?
If you can't bring yourself to read them, how can you think they're good? Stop falling for consensus thinking
I mean I think of Ligotti as the Spark Notes 101 version of anti-natalism and pessimism, so I wouldn't call him too difficult. As for Dostoyevsky, its hard for me to get into it, when I can't keep track of all the Russian names.
So can someone explain to me what reasons are there for reading philosophy? I mean while reading philosophy you either agree with it or disagree with it. If you disagree with the philosophy then why waste your time reading something you know you won't agree with? Or if you agree with it then why read something you already realized on your own?
Because you are hoping to hear an idea you never have before, and to hopefully have your mind changed or to realize some deeper thing you haven't before.
I think it's a piece of shit.
So, to enjoy philosophy fully, you have to be a nihilist? Or someone who changes his opinions very easily and quickly?
I don't see how nihilism comes into this at all.>Or someone who changes his opinions very easily and quickly?
If reading many large books is "very easily and quickly" to you, then what the hell would it take for you?
Philosophy often brings to the table new ideas that you may have never considered, so it's not always a matter of agreeing or not.
If you're reading something you agree with, then the book might give you more and stronger arguments for why what you agree with is true, or make you consider other aspects of the issue.
If you're reading something you don't agree with, it can serve as a foil for your ideas, and you can try to find holes in the philosophy, reasons for disagreeing, or reasons for preferring whatever you think is correct.
All of this is kind of vague but so was your question. >>49944
You don't need to adapt the ideas of every philosopher you're currently reading like a succubus adopting fashion trends. Even if you don't agree with everything a philosopher says they might still help expand your mind or force you to examine your beliefs more closely.
If you are wrong about something (which is always a possiblity) then you should change your mind, right?
But if you never read or listen to anything that you disagree with, then you may never change your mind, even if you are wrong.
So, reading things that you disagree with is the most effective way to determine whether or not you are wrong. It is a good idea to listen to the opposition, just in case they might be right.
Well, I've finished the book. It was written in first person. I liked it but the end felt weak. I was expecting more, something more exciting. If it was a movie, there would be a part 2.
Nonetheless, I recommend it. It's not the best novel I've ever read, but it's pretty good.
Could someone explain to me the value of the rhythmic aspects of poetry?
I guess I have a tin ear, so I've never had an appreciation of the lyrical aspect of poetry. Although I've gotten more into music over the years, so I can relate in that way.
Part of me still thinks of rhyming as a pointless sing-song decoration like nursery rhymes. Although obviously very intelligent geniuses take their hands at it so its more than doggerel.
idk to me it seems almost like a leftover of the Homeric oral tradition, where it helped with memorization and was semi-musical
While I don't get rhyming, I do relate to the form of poetry. This is especially apparent when I read translated poetry that doesn't preserve rhyming. Translated poems is like a weird hybrid of fiction and philosophy. Its like a stream of consciousnesses essay, that doesn't have to follow the usual rules of grammar. A little bit when I pour my unorganized angst onto a page.
Rhyming in poetry does two major thing in my opinion, aside from the aspects you mentioned. For one it’s a bit of a challenge for the writer, to be able to articulate your thoughts so well that you can bend the language your liking. The second aspect is to add emphasis and connections between words that may be hard to express otherwise. And this isn’t necessarily only accomplished by rhyme. Other meters and forms like haiku accomplish this.
>>49970>add emphasis and connections between words that may be hard to express otherwise
To expand on this, there are also phonetic aspects that reinforce or make an idea in a poem more clear or representative of what it's trying to depict. There are parts of Pope's translation of Homer which when read aloud mimick the sound of the sea, one must always keep in mind the sound of the poem when one reads it, it's often a good idea to read it aloud to yourself, doing this has often led me to a greater appreciation of whatever poem I was reading.
I finished Dracula earlier today and it was good overall but I was expecting more from something that made it this deep into the western culture. I also thought it would go more into the Count's personal life. Ending was quite predictable and almost everything was set in stone in last 50-100 pages.
That book is horribly biased and presents Russell's own very narrow view of philosophy. You'd be better off reading Copleston instead.
It's good. What I find interesting is that the philosophers most place in feminist schools of thought, or who are taken to be formative influences to feminist philosophy (Foucault, Adorno, etc.) are usually not that awful. I guess things went bad as the discipline ossified and became more about cranking out degrees and papers and scholarship than engaging in critical thought. I would honestly even say that Butler isn't as bad as people say she is, even if she's not ultimately correct. She at least presents interesting ideas, which is the best philosophy can do.
It may be that I'm able to tolerate succubi more when I'm reading what they've written in a formal academic text, instead of listening to them speak or reading their social media posts.
Thanks for posting this, I started reading and am a little over 2 chapters in. It's really good so far and his all his ideas seem spot-on.
>>50050>his all his ideas
all of his ideas*
ha, I just had a dream that someone replied and said he got the book
yeah, it's an eye-opener and a damning analysis of human nature, people are so freaking stupid
Yeah I finished it last night and he does a great job of tearing apart a lot of habits and traditions. Of course he qualifies it by saying the discussion is only considering the overall economic value an individual is contributing to the community and how well they're adapted to the modern industrial society, but it certainly doesn't lessen the impact of seeing that all these supposedly sophisticated and/or sacred traditions and habits have their roots in past primitive communities and aren't much different.
Which book will most change my life?
I know nothing about your lifestyle your philosophy/worldview any of that shit. 3 books that have changed my life are
-Camus 'the stranger'
-J.P. Sartre 'Nausea'
-Celine 'Journey to the end of the night'
And anything by Hemingway
The Brothers Karamazov
I'm not even Christian but it changed my outlook on a lot of things.
I read a chunk of it and got bored by all the christian ramblings
Probably some religious book you find agreeable.
Letters on the Aesthetic Education of Man
tb12 method by tom brady
the flexible exercise stuff is bullshit but the nutrition and recipes are surprisingly useful.
"Even marijuana didn’t seem to faze Dad too much. In 1991, when I was a junior in high school, he discovered a cigarette packet in my room filled with ten perfectly rolled joints that I’d prepared for my junior prom. Actually, “discovered” gives him too much credit—I left the open box sitting in my open desk drawer. It was hard to miss. When he confronted me about it, I actually had the nerve to get indignant with him. I told him I’d paid £15 for the pot and if he took it, it was like stealing from me. He didn’t give me back the joints but he did reimburse me the £15, which I proceeded to spend on a new rock of hash.
I ended up taking that hash with me to the junior prom. Erin, my girlfriend at the time, was shy, very sweet, and not into drugs at all. After the prom, there was a school-organized boat party on the Thames, but as we walked toward the dock to board, I could see that they were searching everyone. I told Erin, “I can’t go on that boat. They’re going to take away my hash.”
She asked me straight out, “Which is more important to you, going on this cruise with me or your hash?” I turned around and went home with my hash."
KILL THE DEAD by RICHARD KEADY
the most fun book I've read in ages!
You could do both, lots of books you can find online for free or get on amazon for ~1$ (if they're old). But you might be able to get a better price on some books physically.
He was a dictator of Russia.
So grammar wise it could be said that he is a Russian dictator.
English is not my main language, but from the (blurred) context it seems pretty clear they are referring to nationality. Ill still try to finish to book for learning good habits.
Georgia was part of the Russian Empire when he was born so he was technically Russian.
well if its a serious academic book on USSR history, they probably wouldnt use that terminology. But it depends on the topic of the book.
I can relate, that sometimes minor mistakes on topics I know about, make me distrust the author on everything.
To be fair the US contemporaries of Stalin, very often used the term Russia and Russian.
>>49146>Not just your typical misanthropic ramblings, but something more personal, like an account of struggling with depression, but more artistic
The Book of Disquiet
>>50269>I can relate, that sometimes minor mistakes on topics I know about, make me distrust the author on everything.
This is what caused me to start distrusting news. They bring some "expert" in to talk about something I am quite knowledgeable on and they are just laughable uninformed. Makes you wonder why you should trust them on things you don't know anything about.
That's like saying all Indians born during british rule are british.
[Last 50 Posts]
Philosophy are ideas, these ideas won't ever have a total adaptation to reality. However we use these ideas as role models. Christianism didn't stop wars but our moral code, the art, our aspirations were deeply influenced by it. But Nietzsche saw how the idea of a God, of a trascendental plane that substained and gave meaning to our lifes was no longer followed; this wasn't mere rethoric: the life of a medieval peasant was completely defined in relation to religion whilst we live in uncertainty. I could continue about how Aristotle or Descartes built our mode of relation towards the world and how this was vital to the development of modern science, etc.
> I don't see any value in learning philosophy, besides personal entertainment> Even they didn't take their own ideas seriously.
Nietzsche was revolutionary and Schopenhauer pointed some dark and uncomfortable facts about life. Still I somewhat agree with you, philosophy at universities almost always consists of a bunch of academics wading in their mental shit and just concerned with getting published and winning prizes…guess what, Schopenhauer was precisely a strong critic of this. Seneca, Marcus Aurelis, Epictetus lived according to what they preached. What you talk about is a problem of modernity: man merely oriented towards efficiency and everything else considered as leisure.