No.28755[Last 50 Posts]
Want to start learning Japanese?
Here's some useful links to help you out.
(A basic walkthrough of what to do first and what to expect)
(tool to learn the kana)
(setting up Anki)
- (Actual Japanese dictionary for rare words and alternate definitions)
(Popup dictionary definitions when you hover over a word, Chrome version is called Rikaikun)http://rikaisama.sourceforge.net/
(alternative to rikaichan)
Last thread: >>25255
I've heard that imabi is worse than tae kim and genki, but I've read all of tae kim and skimmed through genki and now I've started imabi and its been helping me out the most. The way the information is presented is easier for me to understand and there are plenty of practice examples to ground the information in. I've heard imabi is bad because there is too much information, but I'm only half way through the beginner 1 section and it doesn't seem like that at all. Since I've already read all of tae kims grammar guide I may be getting through this faster than a complete beginner, but tae kims grammar guide did not have enough examples and I didn't understand all of the explanations of grammar rules well, so it was hard to remember the rules when I was using tae kims. I haven't had those problems since starting imabi. I don't like genki, its too easy and not enough explanation showns, though I only skimmed through it and didn't read it like I did with tae kims guide.
Has anyone made use of cloze cards on Anki or something besides Japanese on the front English on the back?
>>28780>I know most people prefer text without kanji
Only complete beginners and those who only pretend to learn languages. Kanji is a godsend for texts that contain a large number of 漢語.
Japs are pragmatic people and would've got rid of Kanji like Koreans did if they could objectively do without it.
A lot of the words sound the same though. I haven't read yotsuba but I can't imagine why some think it's easier to read without kanji.
A lot of kanji looks the same, too.
I imagine it depends on the brain. Some people remember the sound of the word better than the shape of the kanji and vice versa.
Yeah, except in case of Japanese many Chinese-type words sound identical and thus require context. Kanji eliminate that problem, at least in written language.
it means "one that looks/acts in a certain way
" in this context
Is there a mobile app for studying like Duolingo, but better?
There's Lingodeer. Most apps are the same and get you to the same level of very basic fluency. There's Memrise or Anki if you want a SRS.
I would read more manga if there was a way to look up words easily. Typing it out or having to put together kanji in a dictionary is just too time consuming. I don't see how people do it
I just quickly doodle 1-3 radicals and search the kanji that has them. The utility I use isn't in English though, but I'm sure there must be English equivalents using the same principal.
Btw if there are any other Russian-speaking wizzies here who also happen to learn Jap, I totally recommend Yarxi (although I bet you would already know about it).
Can't help but ask, why do you have Windows XP on the screenshot?
What made you think it's XP? I'm using 10 in fact.
The program's interface is kinda oldstyle though, yeah.
I can read Yotsuba, the site I use works with Rikaikun so I can hover over unknown words easily and see a translation, but that's not an option on other sites with manga unfortunately. I agree clozemaster is good, nice layout and it's faster paced than Anki so you can get more words faster
Blurry small font, and retro look of buttons and window title bars. All right, never mind then.
The font appears blurry because the screenshot is jpeg.
chi's sweet home seems easier to read than yotsuba
Same as でかいね, only more informal and colloquial.
i thought so. the english manga translates it as "it's huge"
i thought maybe it had some connection to deka(which is used earlier in the manga)
Yeah, colloquial Japanese has various ways of contracting/omitting endings and such.
I've already learnt hiragana, and I'm curious about how long will it take to be able to read Yotsuba, or in other words, to reach the six step in that guide?
It will largely depend on how much and how often studying you're doing. I can only tell you my personal experience. I was studying everyday for 2 to 3 hours and it took me about 6 months. That was the point there was some enjoyment to be had with the process. The truth is though I was trying to read it pretty much from the second month onwards. Every end of the month I would try reading a volume but before the 6 months mark it felt way more like deciphering than anything else. There was a lot of staring at sentences trying to figure things out. Not to mention practically every page there were words I didn't know or were contracted in a way that even if I knew them, still puzzled me. Then around 6 months in, things began to fall into place, though many longer sentences still needed close inspection and of course there was still constant visits to the dictionary, but it didn't feel like pure deciphering anymore. At that point it felt I was doing some reading along with the deciphering.
I think you should try to read it as soon as possible. Once you have the kana down, understand how particles work and some very basic vocabulary, you should try reading Yotsuba. Regardless of how much study you have, native material is going to look pretty frightening and difficult at first. The most important thing is not how soon but how long are you willing to persevere.
Now if by reading you mean just cracking up a volume and being able to go through without bumps, dictionary visits and at quick passe, that'll take a lot longer.
thanks for answering my question.
no way jose doraemon
She calls herself an otaku btw, lol.
But jokes aside, hers is probably the best Japanese teaching channel on youtube.
Didn't bother watching the one linked, but I did watch a large portion of her transitive/intransitive verbs video and the info in it is sound. The format is awful though, with information constantly blinking in and out of the screen. For example she will constantly make comparisons with information that is no longer on screen or mentioning some other video she did (not even mentioning the title so you can look), you would use more time going through the video's list than studying. I wouldn't recommend this over text format to anyone. Maybe if you're using it as leisure after doing real studying it's alright.
>someone asks a simple question in the comments section >nobody can answer it and the thing derails into idiotic jokes
Serves me right for scrolling down on a yt video.>>28935>best Japanese teaching channel on youtube
Let that be a warning then. Don't try to learn through youtube.
I watched all of her grammar videos this summer. Really helped me to fill the gaps or misunderstandings that remained after reading the Manga Way and grammar guides.
She also gives some useful info on what words and phrases are outdated or used less or aren't polite enough, or on subtle differences in context and meaning between what might seem like synonyms.
Of course I wouldn't recommend using it (or any youtube channel like that) as the primary source of studying either. But as supplementary stuff it might work for some (for those who can tolerate a 3dpd succ face on screen, that is).
It's ネズミ， not オズミ. オズミざんしき is not a word but ねずみ and 算式 are. ネズミ算式に増えちゃいます (the number of mice increase).
i can't read katakana very well. i haven't bothered to learn it
oh sanshiki. why does it say zanshiki?
Hm, I glanced over the page and assumed it was 算式. You're right, it's actually ねずみ算, which means proliferation. Insterestingly enough, ねずみ算+式 or なずみ+算式 doesn't really chance the meaning of the sentence here.
>i haven't bothered to learn it
What? That's half the kana you're neglecting. Do bother to learn it.
i know katakana but not by heart. sometimes i forget katakana due to not using it as often as hiragana
Mostly procrastination but the last 3 months have been very good. I've gotten halfway through RTK and moved on to sentence mining (The order I studied it was different so it covered more ground and was more useful, if I continue it's diminishing returns. I know how to make mnemonics now so learning new kanji isn't that difficult) and accumulated 630 cards. I've been able to immerse more recently, usually 3-5 hours a day which is great.
Progress has been very fast but there's still so much I have yet to learn which makes me want to give up but I know I shouldn't. My plan for 2019 is to keep doing this and keep a steady plan of 10-20 new words a day to avoid overwhelming myself. I might start mining anime since I've been putting it off.
I reached a level where reading VNs is slow and I still need a text hooker but can be enjoyed. I need to work more on my grammar but am very happy with how my vocabulary and reading speed have come along. Another year of this kind of progress and I will be happy.
し connects parts of a sentence here, so it means "and". It's kinda informal.
but at least I didn't skip a single day of it.
This is the main thing though and is an achievement in itself.
For me most of the year went pretty good but this last month has been awful and I've spent most of my free time watching youtube and browsing chans. I guess my reading speed/vocabulary has increased but I've been in this game for a long time and the need/motivation to improve has diminished greatly.
Actually not as much "and" but rather more like "since" in regards to the phrase it follows.
>>28939>Don't try to learn through youtube
Unless it's a Japanese video intended for Japanese people and not a video about learning Japanese
this manga must have come out recently because she has a smart phone
That creature speaks in the Kansai dialect.
i'll study this
i never knew meccha was kansai dialect
is しといたろ kansai ben too?
I completed RTK but I'm forgetting kanji, especially the later ones in the book. Despite doing more reviews than new kanji per day and having strong mnemonics, I still forget some kanji like 連. Is that normal or should I change something? I know them during reviews but often coming across it in an actual word, I forget it
Obviously you WILL forget kanji unless you encounter them in texts.
>>29154>I know them during reviews but often coming across it in an actual word, I forget it
The only thing that solved for me was actually writing Kanji down. Everyday for 40 to 60 minutes I sit down and write some Kanji. Muscle memory goes such a long way you wouldn't believe it. I wish I had done that from the beginning, it would have saved me so much time in the long run.
Some people will tell you if you just read a lot it eventually gets into your brain and that's true to an extent. However I have about 3k accumulated hours of reading everything under the sun and would still get shaky on a bunch of Kanji if they were in words I didn't know. Writing it down solved this completely.
That's my personal experience with it, at least.
What were you reading to find that interesting word?
i was watching good doctor(kento plays an autistic doctor) and someone mentioned kappa
i didn't know what that was, so i looked it up and i found this word
Just wanted to say that today for the very first time I was reading a book and the pleasure outweighed frustration by a considerable margin. It took me exactly 2 years, 7 months and 22 days of daily study to reach this point. There's still a long way to go but a weight has been lifted. Ever since dropping light novels to focus on more hefty text it has been what it seemed like an uphill battle and today it finally feels I'm not completely stupid. Finally! After relapses and going back to vns and manga I didn't even particularly care about, I can read some of the stuff I really want to read without feeling completely frustrated and dumb. I don't remember the last time I felt happy about something and specially I can't remember a time I felt happy over a result of my own effort and merit but today I can say I'm very happy. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.
Do you wizzies have a goal for number of words you want to know? A decent minimum is probably 7.000, but 10.000 would be ideal though, for me at least. Right now it's all theoretical as to the general capabilities at each vocabulary level. Generally, the higher numbers would be better but there's a point where it's just useless since a word may be used once in an old text that no one reads.
enough to understand japanese like native speaker
I admire you guys. I could not even learn english all I know is just repetition of words from games without knowing any rules.
Ya, I don't know if I will ever get this. I get a few words from listening to anime/games with Jap audio, but the kana is crucial to learning, and I can't seem to get it down at all.
Continue doing the reviews from where you left it, no reason to reset the whole thing. And start reading Yotsuba.
Just start sentence mining and reading/watching things like yotsuba or some slice of life anime. If you can bear it, maybe pick up an RTK deck
I'm kind of scared of what doing that'll get me. I might have more than 2k reviews just waiting for me to open anki.>>29595
I'll definetly do this though. Do you have any advice about how to begin my own deck though? I used to just send my mined words to anki using Yomichan but I was never quite satisfied with the resulting cards.
I can describe what I do but it might be better to describe some guidelines I follow of what to add and how:
1. It should be i+1. There's more info about the concept online but basically there's only one unknown word/grammar point in a sentence or clause. That simplifies the process of reviewing and makes it easier to retain
2. It has to be real Japanese. I only mine from anime with japanese subtitles, manga, comments written by japanese people, etc. nothing artificial except:
3. If I cannot find an i+1 sentence then I might check Tatoeba or Weblio for an example sentence that's i+1
4. I don't add a lot then burn out and add nothing for days or weeks. I make sure to add a smaller amount that's maintainable even if it changes, being consistent is better than pushing yourself until you crash. That may be 5 new cards a day or it may be 30 but having a maintainable amount is important.
5. Personally in cards, I usually add the meaning of the kanji, it just makes it easier to remember them if I forgot or don't rememeber the meaning clearly
6. Only use sentences or clauses, never single words and only go from japanese to english. Pretty basic and common sense but 99% of premade decks I see either go from english to japanese or use single words instead of a sentence.
7. Audio is good. I made a mistake and used audio on the front of cards for a while but a few months ago I realised doing that only helps reading and listening partially. Now I mix either audio on the front with the sentence on the back or sentence on the front with the furigana and/or audio on the back. That way I test the skills separately and can at least get benefit in one more so than half assing both which is almost useless when you come across that word again but can only vaguely recall its meaning
8. I usually limit the amount of cards from one source at a time to maybe 5 at most. It just makes reviewing tedious if it's all from one source, at least for me. But reusing sources is nice since it obviously makes that content more comprehensible.
9. This is only a very recent thing that I'm still getting used to but after you have a good base and can understand things, start using simple monolingual definitions instead of translations. I have a deck with the most common 5000 words with relatively simple definitions on the front with the word on the back. I have a goal of being able to use a monolingual dictionary so if that's a goal then I highly recommend the deck or at least using simple definitions you can understand more and more along with translations for words that have an overly complex monolingual definition.
Link to the deck for future reference https://mega.nz/#!p5EAEaz
10. I delete a lot of cards if the word isn't sticking or if it just doesn't make sense or for whatever reason. Maybe just bad formatting. I have a goal of 10000 cards but it's not about having that number, it's more about having a general relatively high-ish number of understandable cards. I've gone through many thousands of flashcards but just because you see them or memorise the card doesn't mean you will actually retain the information. Just to make the reviewing process easier and actually useful, I just delete bad cards I made.
Hopefully that gave a little bit of of a guide of how to start a sentence mining deck. It's both a direct answer as well as hopefully a useful future reference if this thread is looked at in a few months or something by some lurker
>>29678>Only use sentences or clauses, never single words and only go from japanese to english. Pretty basic and common sense but 99% of premade decks I see either go from english to japanese or use single words instead of a sentence.
The point is to learn the reading and basic meaning to speed up the process of actually acquiring the word from native content. For me, vocabulary cards work at least as well for that purpose as sentence cards. They can also be created and reviewed in less time. That saved time can be used to do more cards or consume native content. You cannot fully learn a word from a single flashcard anyway.
Is that suppose to be りんご anon? Because that would be 林檎, not 木檎.
It's a single kanji: 檎.
You're right. I realized as soon as I posted but didn't delete it to punish myself for being to eager to correct others.
Anyone tried going to japan to study japanese 1~2 years? It seems expensive
been listening to these videos along with using a couple apps on my phone for reading and writing japanese, I think they're nice and the person explains japanese grammar well
I started with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSvH9vH60Ig
this video, just wondering if there's any wizzies here who know japanese well, opinions?
Been studying Japanese for 3 years now. Whatever method that keeps you going and putting as much hours as possible every day is worth it. The important thing is to do every day for as long as possible. That's really the only important thing. For me was Anki, writting sentences by hand sometimes and sweating through manga. I did every single day and now I can at least most manga and games without much trouble. It wasn't any particular method, it was me putting literally thousands of hours into it. On the other hand, no matter what method you pick, if you go on for 3 months and then stop, it won't do any good.
Is there any hope in actually learning Japanese as somebody who just wants to learn the language as a hobby? I don't really have any goals at all with Japanese. I don't have a particularly strong desire to consume anime, manga, games, VNs, or television in Japanese. Though I certainly would do so in order to help me learn the language and also occasionally for fun if I ever did manage to get good enough at Japanese to do so. I also don't really want to go to japan or necessarily talk to Japanese people at any point.
I am just a really bored person who thinks they may have a knack for language learning. I had always tested very well in reading comprehension, and writing to a lesser degree. I am not sure how much of that ability would transfer into learning another language however.
I have been doing anki flashcards for over a week now. At first it was a little bit frustrating, but I have kind of gotten into a groove now and look forward to spending an hour or two on it every day. I now know many of the commonly used hirangana by sight which is helping out a lot in remembering the words for some reason. I downloaded the Japanese version of "Yotsuba" and am beginning to try to decipher it using various online tools, not sure if thats useful or recommended or not. Maybe I wont actually get anywhere and give up at some point but it has been fun so far.
Sure, I'm 3 years in and do it simply as hobby. I do have a strong interest in Japanese literature though, so I have a goal of sorts with the language. It's not what carried me through it though, discipline and routine did.
I've learned English simply as hobby as well and let me asure you, Japanese is fucking hard if you're coming from a Western language, for obvious reasons. I remember by the third year of English study I could understand science fiction movies and fairly complicated books. With Japanese I still struggle to watch kids stuff, sometimes even with Japanese subtitles on.
If you're not serious about it, and it seems you're not (2 hours is not enough imo, I would put 6 everyday and for the past 6 months I will read Japanese for 8+ hours and I still suck at it to be honest) I advise maybe trying a Western language instead. My sister did French for like 2 years and she could read literary classics like The 3 Musketeers fairly well at that point. Something unthinkable if you pick Chinese or Japanese.
Not trying to discourage you in any way but in order to learn a language as different from English as Japanese or Chinese, you have to be committed for a very long time and put long hours per day into it. If you're doing out of boredom and only a couple of hours per day, it might be a better idea to pick a language closer to your mother tongue that you could master in 3 or 4 years. Sometimes I check Italian or German articles on Wikipedia and it's amazing how much I can understand of those without ever putting a second of learning into it. I would go with French myself, giving all the literature and Belgian comic books I could read.
Ah thanks for the response. I kind of figure I will give up well before I was able to learn any language so maybe it doesn't matter what language I learn. I am not a super weeb or anything, but I am still a lot more interested in Japanese than I would be in any other language.
I'm not necessarily opposed to doing it more every day though. I am a neet so I probably could. I am not sure if I could keep it up without burning out but I could try. I don't know what I would do though. Just do more anki flashcards? Or read about grammar and stuff? What would you do for 6 hours a day if you had to restart from scratch?
Reading about grammar is no way to learn it. You need to apply the grammar you try to learn often and continuously. To do that efficiently you need a workbook to basically give you homework and the solutions to it to correct it yourself.
I think you're doing pretty much what I did. In the morning I would get up and spend 1h or so doing the Core 10k on Anki. Then I would go and read Japanese the Manga Way (http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=55684D7AC08A4A16355A5E94344C5A3B
) doing notes and going over the examples, after that I would just try to make sense out of Yotsuba and write down words, just to get that muscle memory for Kanji going. Whatever material you find interesting and helps you to keep going is good enough. Remember the important thing is to keep going no matter what. It's not a sprint race, it's going to take a long time and it can get very frustrating. Stick in there long enough and you'll improve.
Is it really important to write down Kanji by hand if all I really want to do is read Kanji? I think it might be kind of fun to do in and of itself but is it worth spending the time doing it? I imagine it might help you tell the differences between similar looking characters wont it.
It's not necessary, but retaining them long-term and yes, distinguishing very similar ones, becomes infinitely more easier when you learn to write them and also learn how they are constructed.
anyone using human japanese? I'm going through it now, it's fun, and explains grammar well so far. It did cost money ($20) but luckily my mom is happy to buy me books and academic things like that
I'm trying to convince my mom to learn japanese with me, I want her to take me to okinawa so we can tour together
also trying to work up to be able to understand this stuffhttps://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/
so far I can almost decipher headlines with lots of back and forth with the dictionary, but most of the time I cant make sense
What is that?
it's a little ebook program that has quizzes built in and stuff, there is a nice deck on memrise to study the content as well that I've been using
>>30440>saging the thread on top
Why not just use anki?
I didn't know memrise was still relevant in anyway. Being bad and all.
anki is just flash cards, memrise has typing exercises which I like a lot, also I don’t know how you think memrise is bad, it has a whole bunch of great user created stuff
https://linguaholic.com/linguablog/oyasumi/>Oyasumi is one of about a dozen words that you’ll definitely want to know by heart if you ever plan on travelling to Japan, or even just want to make nice with your ex-pat neighbor. The meaning of oyasumi (and the meaning of oyasuminasai) is deceptively simple.
just thought it was interesting
That is the problem. There is outright wrong info, and otherwise bad content. If you want to actually learn Japanese, I recommend Tae Kim's book and 日本語の森 for grammar. The latter may be hard for beginners, because they only speak Japanese.
>>30449>>30453>doesn't learn from telling once
Thanks for outing yourself. You can go back to 4chan now.
>>30459>Thanks for outing yourself. You can go back to 4chan now.
Really ironic that you are on a /jp/ board and yet have such a minimal understanding of what sage is and in a thread about learning Japanese no less, have you ever even been on Japanese imageboards?
Now you are just making things up. But please, tell me what sage means in your opinion so I can laugh.
Also here is a word of the day for you: 懲りない
Ugh… Sage is a feature that enables a user not to bump a thread. The reason why this was made was so that if a user felt that his post was not worth bumping the thread(because it wasn't a good post, it was not relevant to the thread or for whatever reason) he would not have to, the point of sage was not to be rude, it was the opposite of that. Infact I am being rude now by not saging as this is an example of the use sage was made for, we are not talking about something relevant to the thread so we would both use sage so as not to bump this thread up to the front page with irrelevant posts.
Yeah, but it is also meaningless to sage thread that is on top. That is basic. Well, at least you knew half of it.
Ahh I should also add, in addition to this it may seem pointless that one should sage a thread that is on top anyway but part of the point of sage and why it is visible is because it shows that you the poster acknowledge that it is not relevant or worth bumping. Also indecently here is another use of sage, to correct a post that one has just made.
I wish I had begun doing the kangxi radicals anki deck before starting the core 2k/6k deck. It has become actually surprisingly easy to give names to these shapes and it makes recognizing and differentiating new character way easier. The only problem is that I am having to relearn words I had previously memorized. I now see the individual shapes of each character in a new light but have to again reassociate them to a word. I am only about 200 words deep into the 2k/5k deck though so I am glad I am doing it now instead of later.
anyone else here going over their japanese flash cards and you get like 95% of them correct but still feel like you're missing something? I feel like I wouldn't be able to read these kanji out in the wild
I suppose this is because you only see them isolated on your flash cards when you are focusing on recalling whatever the answer side of your card may say. What you likely need imo is both reading practice and writing practice. The former can be real world japanese text or from a workbook depending on your progress and the latter will help you combine the two masses that are probably separate entities in your learning routine - grammar and vocabulary - into simultaneously available, connected information.
Does anyone know of any good news sites in japanese for reading practice? I heard reading news is a good way to practice but I have a hard time using the sites that I have found.
Oh, that is awesome! Way more than I expected. Thanks!
Im "recruiting" japanese speackers to start an alliance with the hikkis from 2 chan.
i consider the japanese neets advanced wizards,and we would benefits from their interacion and advice.
>also anyone have that image of cirno smoking in an abandoned building?
I talked with a korean guy trough an app before,asian people are interesting,i want to talk to them about life and school
Why would you want such a disgusting image? degenerate.
is it worth it learning to read japanese just to read manga?
there are many raw manga which arent translated and will never be,i think id need about 100 volumes of raw manga to motivate me to start.
how long does it take to learn to read,starting from zero?
im already bilingual and now i have free time.
May or may not be worth it depending on how badly you want to read the manga. Besides commissioning people to translate it for you it is probably the only way you will ever be able to read a lot of the old untranslated stuff.
As for how long it takes to begin reading it probably depends on what you want to read. If it is targeted at grade or middle schoolers then it is much easier to "read" because it will have hiragana above the kanji that makes it far easier to look up words. If it doesn't have that then it will be much much harder until later on.
You can probably start "reading" the simple stuff after a month or two of diligent study. By reading I mean looking up most of the words online and only having a loose grasp of what any sentence means until you get a better grasp of the grammer.
The good news is that if you are really passionate about reading like this then you are lucky because reading is the best way to learn the language besides maybe moving to Japan.
Does anyone know a good simple japanese cartoon to watch for beginners in the language? I've been studying about an hour every day for a bit over a month, I watched some kid shows recently and I could hardly piece together sentences, just picked up a few words every now and then, sometimes even I heard words that didn't seem to make sense in the context, like in one show a cashier asked the main character if he knew how much of something he was gonna buy and he replied ”きたない”, which as far as I know means "dirty" or something like that, is there like a slang dictionary somewhere I can use?
Sounds like you misheard what they were saying. There's also the problem of slang and how the sounds are mushed together when normal people speak so it's hard to understand.
Personally I recommend reading kids books first. It gives you time to digest a sentence and piece together its meaning, and you won't mishear it since it's written. Eventually you get faster at getting meaning out of sentences and then can transition to spoken form.
How do you have a mining deck that has words on "due"?
Or it is just a case of active and inactive vocabulary.
Inactive works better when you read it in sentence.
You review seen cards in a mining deck just like any other.
Not sure how to obtain it, but maybe you could acquire anime with Japanese subtitles for the hard of hearing?
That's the original purpose of subtitles, right?
<MUSIC PLAYS> <LOUD NOISE>
This site has subtitle files for a large number of shows, including most (maybe all, not sure) currently airing shows.http://kitsunekko.net/dirlist.php?dir=subtitles%2Fjapanese%2F
should've clarified - Japanese subtitle files
reading tae kim. only 100 pages in or so, so i'm not sure if this is covered later, but i was told only nouns can come before が? so one way to turn a verb clause into a gerund to make it a valid topic/subject is to add こと? anyone know if this is true/if there are other ways to turn verb clauses into gerunds?
Is becoming fluent in Japanese (enough to watch anime without subtitles) feasible for a /dep/ wizard? I’ve given up on everything I’ve ever started. I hear it takes 8 years to become fluent in Japanese.
I started learning japanese for a few months, got hit with a wave of depression and haven't touched it in a month, hardly remember anything, probably a waste of time
8 years seems like way too long. I have heard 4-5 years, but I think that includes being able to speak it very well and write very well too. If you don't care about speaking it and writing characters (typing is much easier anyway) then you can probably do it faster.
You can probably start watching raws in less than a year if you put enough time in each day. First few months are the hardest because it's a lot of "classic" studying like reading grammar guides and grinding vocab cards. Once you can start consuming native material it becomes fun.
If your only purpose in learning is for raw anime I don't know if there's really a point though, because other than some older obscure anime I think most of it is already subbed.
Also discipline > motivation
Soo…no one can help me with this >>31085
いけない and ならない are the negative forms of いける and なる. All verbs with -ない attached conjugate in the same way as -i adjectives. -ません is an alternative negative form that conjugates differently.
I have a condition and sadly cannot write or make precise strokes. Is there a way to learn Japanese despite this?
OK ty fren. Should I get jap keyboard or can I make it with my shitty Microsoft one
You don’t need a Japanese keyboard to type. You can just enter the romaji and then hit space until you get what you want. You’ll have to set your language to Japanese though, so that depends on your OS.
Wizards lacking the comprehension of a given kanji character may try looking up the radicals at jisho.org .
I realize it's much faster and reliable than OCR once you start figuring out which radicals mean what.
gooogle translate also has a good handwriting-to-kanji reader that i use to identify kanji i haven't seen before. of course, it helps more if you know general stroke order of kanji
I find radical lookup easier and I don't know what the radicals mean
Difference between 見ため and 外観? I am still a beginner on anki decks learning vocab. Trying to master at least some vocab before I move onto grammar and reading beginner manga.
You can't master the nuance of words without lots of reading and listening. Just learn the general sense. For one, plenty of words are exact synonyms with no real difference.
In this case, though, 見た目 is more likely to be used to describe people and sounds more casual, while 外観 is more likely to be used for objects and sounds more technical. This follows the general pattern of Japanese (kun) origin words being more everyday speech, while Chinese-origin (on) words sound more academic (for the same reason Latin-origin words often sound technical in English – Chinese was the language scientific documents were written in).
How long should somebody spend a day learning this?
I spent about 4 hours a day when I first started learning and was going through kanji, grammar, and vocab. When I started reading I think I was doing 10-12 hours a day but that's kind of extreme.
I don't think you should stress too much about time though, better to focus on consistent progress like learning a certain number of new kanji and vocab words each day, going through a certain number of grammar lessons, or reading a certain number of chapters of manga. Maybe try 2 hours to start if you really want a set schedule.
The Tae Kim link doesn't work any more, did he close his website?
A while back I watched a Chinese anime and it seemed like I had less time to read the subtitles than usual. Idk why I waited until now to google it, but I was wondering if Chinese had a higher information density or something today so I did google it and I came across this interesting article:https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/why-do-japanese-people-talk-so-fast/
It seems Chinese does in fact have a much higher information density and also information rate than Japanese although the information rate of Chinese is pretty comparable to most European languages so perhaps I would have noticed the same thing going from Japanese to any other language since it looks like Japanese is the odd one out, being much slower in information rate and much less information dense and spoken faster to compensate. It also makes sense that they omit words that can be understood via context to save time because their language is so much less information dense.
This has interesting implications for wizards who have a slower mental tempo. If they can learn to keep up with the words coming out of their mouth, it will actually allow them more time to think in Japanese compared to other languages.
I actually like that anime has them pronounce every syllable after trying out live-action j-dramas.
kill me honestly. I remember watching this and hearing that and just thinking to myself how much I dislike living.
Not sure if this is the site that you are talking about. But the tae kim guide is here as well.https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/grammar/taekim.html
I insist the site is up and the pdf of the book toohttp://www.guidetojapanese.org
joy of being cummed inside
This is so stylized I can barely make what's going on. First one seems 徃 which is only used in names according to the dictionary. First part of the second one could be pretty much anything, it looks like a 頭 to me but who knows, it might be a Kanji not in use outside names like the first one. Third one I have no idea. So I'm guessing it's just a name or surname.
Couldn't read it myself, but I asked a Jap out of curiosity.
Hey. I'm starting to learn japanese at a 1h every 2 days pace with namasensei's lessons and Kanji Study app from google play in order to farm in the bus while going to school. What am I in for ? Can I expect to be able to read VN and manga and understand a bit of anime after about 2 years ?
My main goals are to be able to read japanese authors as french and english translations of Mishima and Dazai feel like there is something missing, as well as playing through the pc-88 / pc-98 games that where a huge part of game culture and never hit the west.
Obviously I'm interested in manga and anime as well and I would like to travel to japan some day and be able to understand technical slang about old tech in akihabara.
I'm inclined to think that it might take me 15 years to reach that kind of level but I try to silence this pessimistic part of my brain.
What is the best strategy for just becoming able to understand Japanese spoken language? I don't give a shit about reading it or being able to speak it, I just want to be able to understand what people are saying.
I'm thinking just doing vocabulary flash cards and then watching anime without subtitles. Do you think that would work?
Best strategy is probably to learn how to read anyway otherwise I can't imagine how you'll be able to even use flashcards or any didactic material at all. Learning the kana and a handful of Kanji is not hard at all and it will take you a long way torwards whatever goals you might have.
You're right but it's pretty hard for me to put more hours in as I'm a student and also learning piano 1 hour a day and have a sport practice that I alternate with japanese (hence the 1 day on 2).
On an unrelated note, what do you think about smartphone apps to farm kanjis ?
My brother had the same problem you do now. We both began learning Japanese together but he had other hobbies he wanted to pursue while I made Japanese the one thing I would pour every second of free time I had. Needless to say he gave up after a year or so without having learned much at all, and that's because I was bothering him every day for several months about keeping up with it (I originally hoped learning Japanese to be a thing we could bond over but alas this was not meant to be, unfortunately). And he's a pretty smart guy, way smarter than myself. It's simply a matter of not putting enough time, progress comes too slowly, if at all, and frustration becomes too much to handle. To be brutally honest with you, unless you at least hope to increase the time you'll be learning Japanese in the future, I don't think it's a language you can learn in a reasonable amount of time putting only 4 hours a week into it. It's not like learning English or some other Western language that shares a bunch of syntax and vocabulary with your mother tongue. I'm sure you must have realized that by now.
>what do you think about smartphone apps to farm kanjis
I tried every method under the sun and honestly they're all fine as long as you do it everyday and force yourself to make progress. So yeah if that's what you can do, it's fine. The most important thing is to make progress and keep at it.
Anyway, I wish you good luck whatever you decide to do.
tae kim has an interesting blogpost about learning kanji http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/you-cant-learn-kanji/
my understanding of it is similar to tae kim's. grinding kanji on anki or learning kanji by memorizing onyomi/kunyomi readings and "kanji meaning" will only give you predictive power when reading japanese. but this only sticks if your prediction is correct since being correct initiates a positive information feedback loop. because a given kanji's reading is basically arbitrary for a given word, learning words is essential. ergo, the method you use is less important since retention comes more from being able to read words in japanese rather than separate kanji (unless the kanji itself can be a word).
It seems I will have to learn hiragana because I can't find any decks that have the words written with roman characters.
learning hiragana is extremely easy, if you can't do that then there's no point trying to learn anything about japanese.
katakana is even easier after that and will let you understand a lot of writing since it is used for words taken from english like takushii = taxi
it's just kanji that's fucked
katakana is harder than kanji because japanese phonology is so limited that translating them back into english is torturous, not to mention the plethora of false friends that completely change the meaning of the word
I find it much easier to be able to just sound out a word than try to memorize a thousand different single characters.
i don't, the latter is equivalent to learning vocabulary, which you're going to have to do anyway if you're learning japanese, whereas the former is attempting to decipher the japanese phonological butchering of english words. trying to rack my brain for what the fuck ベビーカー means is more annoying than learning the meaning of 予約
Jesus that's disgusting
I assume it comes from baby carriage.
I know it does, I'm just saying that all these english loan words clash with the language so hard.
If you see a random katakana word I find there is a good chance you can figure out what it is just by knowing the alphabet. Especially when you have context. This is much better than unknown vocab where there is 0 chance
this thread hasnt hit a limit yet? did everyone just stop learning japanese?
It comes in short waves. A small group of people comes in and asks a bunch of questions and then they disappear. Several months later another small group of people (I assume not the same because of goals and post style) asks a bunch of equally basic questions and are gone was well within a week. I think they just give up as most people do and the thread stop until another wizzie comes along wanting to give it a shot.
not really, セーター sounds nothing like sweater and the only way you'd know it means sweater would be learning it like you would any other vocab word. japanese is also full of false friends, which basically means you're still learning new words that you just happen to be able to read as well. it's more difficult imo because you have to rewrite your brain to understand english sounds in japanese and assign them a new meaning.
I learned most of the hiragana now. I just forget what the little dashes or dot turns it into sometimes. I figured that's good enough to get started on vocabulary. I edited an anki deck to display the kana instead of the kanji first and I learned my first 10 words. 2 more years of this bullshit and maybe I can watch anime without subtitles. This would up my multitasking abilities while watching anime so much.
I learned Hiragana and am starting Katakana. I don't know what I'm supposed to learn in a kanji so I guess I'll just follow a free course on the net or some book and use my app as a way to learn kanjis as voacbulary instead of only going with the app.
Are all the words that use katakana derived from English and sound enough like the English word that you should be able to figure it out if heard spoken? I'm debating whether or not to try and learn katakana. Seems like a pain in the ass for not a lot of reward if my only goal is to be able to understand the spoken language. When I am watching anime I can hear a lot of English loaner words and I know what they are.
its never too early to start learning kanji>>32750>Are all the words that use katakana derived from English and sound enough like the English word that you should be able to figure it out if heard spoken?
no, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gairaigo_and_wasei-eigo_terms#Examples
you should learn katakana anyway, but that'll only allow you to read loan words and a handful of very very common words
Katakana is extremely easy to learn, can only take a couple of days max. It wont help with listening but it's silly to be trying to learn japanese and not learn it
So I finished the 2 volumes of yotsubato,then what? what's next for a beginner like me?
The niggers at /DJT/ have been memeing a eroge,Flyable heart for years,is a good practice? or something else?
I want to learn Japanese.
I would read more of Yotsuba or maybe more of another manga. I think back when I was a complete beginner I did all of Yotsuba, then Ika Musume and To-Love Ru and Darkness.
An eroge might be a little bit of a big jump at your current level. Flyable Heart itself is OK, not amazing.
Ive been going to japanese twitch channels with nobody watching and trying to communicate with the streamer. Its a really easy way to find someone to talk to and they seem to be really nice usually. I still am really bad at Japanese but a good 上手! or こにちわ can really brighten somebodies day.
How the fuck do I learn vocab? I tried doing a core deck on anki,but after a couple of really easy words it keeps getting harder to recognize and learn the words.
So how people do it? Everyone seems to have an extremely easy time learning this shit except me,maybe I'm just retarded.
anki can be frustrating but it will work eventually if you persist.
The deck I tried started me off with a bunch of numbers and dates and shit and it was super annoying because they were extra hard to learn. Why can't you just give me some happy little nouns and verbs and shit to start it off? It's like the guys who designed the deck are trying to discourage people.
You can try using textbooks instead. They can get interesting much faster than flashcards. There are quite a few you can download.
I think you are talking about 2k6k and I completely agree. It doesn't have a useful progression it seems mostly random with sometimes different words using the same kanji cumpled together.
Not really learning Japanese, just curious. Do Japanese really say thank you for being born (生まれてきてくれてありがとう)? Is it a regularly used expression?
I've read hundreds of manga vols and watched maybe thousands of anime shit and I've never heard anyone expressing that. I don't read people saying that on chans either, nor in movies. Maybe irl? But then again irl speech leaks to media almost a 100%, so I don't think so.
Where did you saw that?
>>33697vtubers birthday streams
, also I am pretty sure I've seen it in manga and anime too although rarely.
Have you? Well I honestly don't remember seeing it but then again, I'm not a native and I don't think shonen plots really have moments where people would say that to each other. Also on birthdays people will say お誕生日おめでとう, not thank you for being born. If this was a common enough expression I would have found on jisho but there's nothing in there. Anyway, now we at least know it exists.
idk if i should continue with genki or just go for tae kim. ive only managed to get to chapter 2 of genki but then again im quite lazy. is there much difference between the two?
Tae Kim teaches much better methodology that will give you good learning habits and carry you all the way to fluency in the long term. Genki can't do that.
Don't go around fooling that guy. Tae Kin, Genki and Anki are all extreme entry level stuff and he should be able to finish any of them with minimum perseverance.>>33700
At least you recognize you're lazy wiz. There's nothing wrong with those anki cards, you should be able to learn basic vocabulary through then like thousands of people have done it before, including myself. There's also nothing wrong with Genji, not Tae Kim. Of course this stuff is hard to you, you just started. Learning Japanese is not easy, doesn't matter what method you pick, actually sticking to it and practicing every day for at least a couple of hours is key and no method will give you "learning habits" like that guy said, imo. You need to have those habits beforehand, which is pretty much just biting the bullet and study every day for as long as you can.
There's no magic tricks behind any method, work hard and everything will be easier as you make progress.
Here's what I did when I started
-grinded all 6k anki cards
-grinded a grammar deck
-read Yotsuba about 5x each volume
-progressed to read every Doraemon vol (45 books)
-proceeded to get the shonen jump magazine every week on nyaa and read through it without skipping a single page (each magazine is about 500 pages)
-watch netflix series with the japanese subs on
-watch every ghibli film with jp subs on
That was the first couple of years I think, I'm 4 years in and doing prety decently, if I may toot my own horn.
thanks for the advice. ill admit ive been pretty slow so far (been about a year and a half since i first got into self studying) but i did manage to learn hiragana katakana and some kanji. i think its about time i got some kind of routine going though
How people get the time for this? everyone says that to be fluent in 4 years you have to spend like 7 hours every day studying or immersing in Japanese,is everyone who eventually made it a NEET or something? how can an adult with a job get the time?
I wasn't a NEET for the first couple of years of learning Japanese. This is obvious advice but you have to work with whatever time you have and most importantly, find a way to have fun and continue making progress at whatever level you find yourself in.
The less time you spend on it the longer it would take. Hell you could probably practice 30 minutes a day and get somewhat decent eventually, but it would drastically increase how long it would take. Basically you just have to make it your hobby and keep at it and you will gradually improve(hopefully).
Japanese inflection is such a piece of shit.
What is the most effective method to learn?>>33836
Consume non-anime Japanese media such as documentaries, news, programs, etc?
all about particles.
dictionary of (basic/intermediate/advanced) japanese grammar.
Watch Evangelion or Serial Experiments Lain, both very easy
literally WTF those are very hard to understand even with english subs.>>30675
If you want something easy try some moe anime or things like that, I watched Gakkou Gurashi with JP subs and I could understand most of it.
Are you learning Japanese or just want the translation? I'll put the Japanese sentences down just in case you want to figure them out by yourself.
Something like "You can expect a far stronger one than the Terrano you know."
Then he says
君が彼らを ゲームオーバー 彼らさせてしまえばいい
If you let them "game over" them
I'll give you the super class S slaves that the winner get.
Or something like that, my Japanese is not up there yet, but I guess that's a serviceable translation.
terano is a character in the series,im glad he will appear again
I'm going to try learning japanese again.
For anyone looking for a free alternative to Tae Kim/Genki in a video format, I suggest watching Cure Dolly's Japanese from Scratch playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLg9uYxuZf8x_A-vcqqyOFZu06WlhnypWj
It emphasizes the usage and importance of particles (especially the concept of が), how verbs work and how to "conjugate" them (Japanese has an extensive system of attaching auxiliary verbs to verb stems), and she uses Alice in Wonderland to illustrate how to parse Japanese sentences. See if her method works for you.
Cure dolly is pretty good, helped me a lot more than Tae Kim with grammar
Hey wizzies. I just found out Jae Raws actually release the close captions for many of the anime they share on nyaa. So I'm cleaning and syncing them for fun. This is a really good way to improve your Japanese. If you're somewhere on intermediate level and you can watch anime but need Japanese captions to understand some of the dialogue this is perfect for you. I'll be releasing the captions for Doraemon and Crayon Shin-chan, starting today.
Links to the raws:https://nyaa.si/view/1279596https://nyaa.si/view/1279598http://www.mediafire.com/file/d71kncot37hfvsa/Crayon_Shin-chan_-_1048_SP.asshttp://www.mediafire.com/file/pkxnhqo4sogj8c6/file
I'm keeping the furigana as well as those can be quite helpful. I hope you enjoy it.
Remember they don't have seeds for a long time so try to get them as soon as it's released. I'll clean and sync the captions on the same day of release. Have fun!
You're a good man, Charlie Brown.
Been searching for this. Time to try again. Wish me luck, my fellow wizards.
Looks like there is english version of this program called jishop.
I`m gonna stick to Russian version though.
Care to share the grammar deck youre talking about?
Thanks a lot anon! I'm gonna make you proud!.
Do you mind telling me how many new cards (6k/grammar) a day did you do when starting? Not sure how many should i do, since i have plenty of time cuz im a neet, but people say im gonna get burn out if i do +50 cards a day.
Also, the grammar deck is very good. Tho, online reference links doesn't work, you know any workaround? Is the online reference something that's not in the card? (I'm using the media version).
Anyway, thanks a lot for sharing such useful deck :)
If I recall I started with 20 or so but I don't remember exactly how many. It takes a couple of weeks for the deck to really start to give you a lot of reviews to do. 50 might not seem like a lot if you have plenty of time but you have to remember that after a month or so the amount of reviewing you'll have to go through with 50 a day can get scary. Do the 50 if you really want to and once you start to get a lot of reviews just reduce the amount of new cards coming in. Nothing is set in stone with anki, you can change those numbers at any moment. Just don't let it get too out of hand with the amount of cards, avoid burnout and keep doing it everyday.
>online reference links doesn't work
oh, I'm sorry about that, I don't have a work around that. Those cards are pretty complete in themselves though, you have a lot of examples and clear explanations for every grammar point, memorize the info in those cards alone and I'm pretty sure you'll be fine.
Animelon Japanese subs are perfect.
They basically take it from kitsunekko (https://kitsunekko.net/dirlist.php?dir=subtitles%2Fjapanese%2F
) and sync it with the raws you find on Nyaa. Very convenient indeed. I think I've watched over 600 hours of anime in there, very useful resource. Sometimes you'll find out of sync or broken episodes but it's a rather rare occurrence.
If you want to download Japanese subbed anime from Nyaa, Doraemon is released every week and it's perfect for beginners since it's a show for children. Very easy to understand. Grab them quickly because after a short while seeds dries out.
Here's the link for last week's ep, if you're interested:https://nyaa.si/view/1345756>>35591
Thanks, I try to keep this thread useful to all wiz out there.
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Nice, i was just searching subs after my last post and just found kitsunekko before reading your post. It's a very nice resource, just what i was looking for. Now, im gonna watch some anime even if i don't fully understand it, just for the inmersion.