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 No.35701

Hey /jp/ I like moe but not all moe and I have to wonder what makes certain moe good? is it hard to quantify what makes the genera worth praising compared to other anime?

How did you get into moe and is it more of an otaku thing to enjoy moe plus does liking moe and being a lolicon go handin hand or just help?

I think colour scheme has a lot to do with what makes moe so good and also a plot that is engaging enough yet barely engaging also.

 No.35702

File: 1614368475087.jpg (163.08 KB, 617x950, 617:950, 125662621.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

It's highly digestible, endearing, barely any thinking required to enjoy it, safe, pleasing designs and overall visually appealing. You have to add some balance there because if that's the only thing you watch it can get pretty boring eventually. When you start dozing off in the middle of episodes it's probably a good idea try to something else for a while.

For the wizzies out there with an actual power level, recently I found out there's someone uploading 百合姫 to nyaa, there are good titles in there that never become anime but are pretty good if you like manga.

 No.35705

>>35702
Just finished the first episode of the anime in your image and it exceeded my expectations for being cute the art was nice ad I just wish it had deeper daerker colours as I do watch anime while trying to sleep but that is a personally thing.

I like the face moe makes me doze off as watching regular anime is too hard for me now and I really enjoy the feeling of falling asleep to something.

 No.36615

>How did you get into moe and is it more of an otaku thing to enjoy moe plus does liking moe and being a lolicon go handin hand or just help?

I enjoy so-called 'moe anime' and I'm not even sexually attracted to females in any form. That said, I tend to prefer shows that aren't overly sexualized. I also just like the slice of life genre in general, and moe often comes with the territory.

 No.36616

>>35701
…but to answer your question, cuteness is just one element of a show's appeal. Most good 'moe anime' would be entertaining even without the moe aspect.

When it comes to typical 'moe anime,' I think that likable character personalities, a nice art style, and a good atmosphere/setting are all things that can add value.

 No.36625

>>36616
Character personality are vital and is what makes strawberry marshmallow such a masterpiece

 No.36637

>>35701
I'll assume we are talking about "moe" meaning the SOL series that usually plague anime forums, and not shows that have genuine effort put in them but with aspects of moe character design. EG: Kiki's delivery, wolf's chldren, etc. Anyways back to the topic.

Good? I don't know about calling it "good", but I do know why people watch it. Its junkfood-like qualities are attractive for some without self control or reflection. The greatest pull towards "moe" is that you just sit there and mindlessly consume until you are "full". The obese go to mcdonalds and gorge themselves on mass production "food", free from any effort or thought of what they are eating, it is not that they are connoisseurs or even like food, what they love is just the aspect of eating. So too moefans turn on endless amounts of the same basic formula of a "show", and begin passively absorbing low effort series, it is not that they are anime fans who love the unique aspects that animation can bring to a fully fleshed out story, what they love is just the aspect of consuming the so called "cuteness".

I won't delve into the obvious succubi worship that moe itself very clearly is, namely because it only attracts scum who defend their very obvious crab feelings behind two main arguments, namely "i-its 2d" or "i-its cute". The first is just nonsense, they are succubi, are drawn to look like succubi, and you accept them as succubi. The second just being a complete non argument since there are many cute things in the world besides succubi. Either way those who don't worship succubi can see it plain as day, and the ones who can't are too lost in their gender deities to see reality.

 No.36679

File: 1621938773249.jpg (115.95 KB, 1080x1080, 1:1, MTG21.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>35702
Relax, don't do it when you're about to come

 No.36681

>>35702
This ones great and so much personality and fun.

 No.36813

>>36637
the reason you don't watch something you can't even tell the appeal of is your self-control?
well okay, doctor freud

 No.36830

File: 1622798226853.png (852.9 KB, 1366x768, 683:384, Rc688989a1f120b79ece111f12….png) ImgOps iqdb

>>35701
i think the poster of >>35702 answers your question rather well

> highly digestible, endearing, barely any thinking required to enjoy it, safe, pleasing designs and overall visually appealing


I also think the criticism in >>36637 rings true quite often. It can be a very thoughtless genre that panders to particular needs (paternal instincts, need for comfort, sex, love/intimacy/tenderness, etc). However, the same can be said of most genres, or any media really. Just a bunch of mindless pandering (action shounen is another obvious example in anime).

For me personally, moe appeals to my need for love/kindness/affection, my sexuality, and also to my paternal instincts. There is a great deal of interconnectedness between these factors in the moe genre which I think reflects the spectrum of needs present in male heterosexuality and our broader biological needs as men.

I want love/validation. I want tenderness. I feel sexual desire. I want to protect and nurture. These are programed biological needs that surface in our connection to succubi. Moe and SOL and CGDCT play on this.

What makes moe so much fun for me, (but off-setting to normalfags), is its loli angle. I think people often don't understand the whole "loli moe" thing because they don't really take the time to critique the two major needs these shows seek to fulfill: paternal instincts to protect and nurture along side needs to find a loving and sexually fulfilling mate. I think male sexuality and the male drive to protect and nurture are very interconnected, much more so than most people consciously recognize. Characters in moe anime have an age range that tends to skew towards the younger side to better appeal to our paternal instincts while at the same time also appealing to our sexuality.

Anyway, a moe I love and think is higher quality is Stella no Mahou. I absolutely adore the MC. This show appeals more toward paternal instinct than to the sexuality of the viewer (she hero worships her dad). Though it still has a whiff of sexuality.

Any one willing to make some recommendations on good moe?

 No.36839

>>36830
>I also think the criticism in >>36637 rings true quite often
Not really though. Like most, he completely ignores the storytelling present in moe shows, which is mainly that of character development with overarching themes. A characters journey from A to B to C is, in fact, a story of its own. Because there is no world-shattering actiony plot going on and the succubi are cute, low IQ nincompoops become confused and think the shows are overall meaningless, which they fully conflate with a persons desire for watching them.

Anyways, go watch Tenshi no 3P or something. You're rambling about some weird parental instinct bullshit, so you've seen Amaama to Inazuma, right? how about Wataten? Endrol?

 No.36840

>>35701
>What makes moe good?
Nothing

 No.36842

File: 1622854255924.png (620.45 KB, 631x705, 631:705, Screen Shot 2016-12-04 at ….png) ImgOps iqdb

>>36839

> he completely ignores the storytelling present in moe shows, which is mainly that of character development with overarching themes. A characters journey from A to B to C is, in fact, a story of its own.


Okay honey, I take back everything I said and now completely agree with you.

Anyway, your anime recs: Wataten yes, endro some, Amaama to Inazuma no. I don't usually watch SOL if the cast isnt all female, but I read the synopsis of Amaama to Inazuma and it sounds solid.

 No.36843

File: 1622856141845.gif (1.08 MB, 720x405, 16:9, 1571907351218.gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>36842
>Okay honey, I take back everything I said and now completely agree with you.
Thanks, I love you too!
I remembered it right when I hit send so it was too late, but also check out Anne Happy. Very good and deserves more recognition

 No.36846

>>36839
>he completely ignores the storytelling present in moe shows
Because its not worth mentioning, there is nothing worthwhile in watching a group of stupid succubi discuss how to eat pastry with each other for 7+ minutes. Does it have a story? Are there themes? Yes to both. Is it worthy of real discussion and is it complex or insightful in any real fashion? No, obviously not. I can prove as much by just suggesting one goes to a moe thread on /a/, and seeing what is being spoke of. To spoil that surprise (not) for you - its nothing to do with the story or themes; it's just a bunch of horny men discussing waifus and cuteness. I see more discussion about story in battleshounen threads than in moe threads, which should tell you a lot about the state of this genre.

The problem with moe watchers is when left alone they are quick to agree that the reason they love moe SOL is solely because of its absolute ease-of-digestion combined with the "cuteness" they are so addicted to, yet when their genre is attacked in any fashion suddenly it becomes some sort of artistic masterpiece that is full of endless intricacy and creative ideals. I can't state that this is a very unique feature to them, I notice the very same tactics from shounen or shounjo fans, the endless flip flopping rhetoric that surely only convinces themselves and others who already feel the same. Generally this is a habit from those who place their identity or an emotional piece of themselves into a genre, which is obviously very stupid, but it does happen quite often. What I can say however, is that of all types - moefans are just the most delusion of this group.

It's rather funny that moe fans pretend they give a single crap about "themes" or a "characters journey", yet most of them find things like Kino's Journey or Eve no Jikan to be an absolute bore despite them being SOL classics. In the same way they might claim to enjoy Japanese humor, yet none even mention things like GTO or Detroit Metal City. Notice that these shows have a distinct lack the "cute succubus" aspect, which immediately means they are to be dismissed for the moe fan. Without succubi worship, no show is worthy of discussion or mention to them. Now of course they will flip flop and pretend that they enjoy these things, yet one can never seem to find them posting about them besides as a gesture to show how "truotaku" they are. The obvious implication is that even if they do "enjoy" these show, without succubi worship, the shows are simply not as enjoyable for them. Which leads back to what I said to be true, that what moe fans are after most of all, is this "cuteness" that they shovel down their throats like an obese man does with his supersized fries and sugary drinks.

 No.36847

File: 1622861145233.gif (2.31 MB, 640x360, 16:9, 227bc97cb94985b64e88bcc2d6….gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>36845
>>36846
>Because its not worth mentioning
Dismissed from the very first sentence. From that alone, I could tell you hold no real justification for blind hatred and misrepresentation, and indeed, complete reading reveals nothing more than a slow soulful cry of repressed homosexuality and an utterly retarded criterion based solely on whether or not it spurs debate. A story doesn't have to be DEEP and compelling to be a good story.

Cute succubi are cute, gaylord. That is definitely a part of why the shows are good. They are also simply good otherwise.

 No.36848

>>36847
What a disastrous reply, and of course the standard baseless accusation of homosexuality is there since the moe fan is obsessed with sexuality and worshipping of the opposite gender. To insult that, is to insult his character - which makes him very defensive and act out with moronic insults. Anyways, I think anyone with a hint of capacity in thought can see who has the other stumped here. I have little reason to reply to such a poster like yourself, and I am very tired of these kinds of conversations with moe fans. So this where I will be getting off on the ever-lowering-quality-discussion ride that you plan on taking me down. Later.

 No.36849

File: 1622863192784.jpeg (627.67 KB, 1080x1080, 1:1, 8cb1e195f62559647b56853e6….jpeg) ImgOps iqdb

>>36848
For liking spurious debates, you sure are quick to cry foul and leave whenever you get even remotely close to one.

>baseless accusation of homosexuality

1 of your 2 major talking points is mere blind hatred of people who like cute succubi, for the sake of cute succubi. It is literally the theme of 2/3 of your paragraphs. There is no further need for argumentation besides simply calling you a homo, for you are demonstrably aflame.

You didn't even bother to refute the other, as it's clear you can't. Not every story needs to be of such depth as to push human emotional and intellectual complexity to the next level to be worthy of positive appraisal. This is such an obvious statement of fact that it hardly bears mention, but yet you persist in shitting on the entire genre of CGDCT (or moe if you prefer) for not doing so, or even attempting. That is nothing but sheer and simple bias. You have no fucking real argument. You're actually just a dumbass animal hating shit mindlessly.

 No.36850

File: 1622863586707.gif (828.14 KB, 500x281, 500:281, serveimage.gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>36843
I watched Anne Happy when it aired. Good show. Will have to rewatch it.

>>36846
Lol dude, you are seriously tweeked about this. Sturgeon's law, 90% of all media from every genre is crap. There is plenty of worthless pandering and meaningless fanservice in pretty much everything. Likewise, the fan base for many medium/genres can be toxic and retarded. The CGDCT/moe genre is meant to be simplistic and sweet, this is its purpose, and in and of itself this isn't a bad thing in my opinion. What sets apart a good moe from a bad one is the same thing that sets apart a good series from a bad one in any other genre: creativity, unique narrative voice, and insight. Because Moe is a simplistic genre, quality manifests in a much more subtle way.

>>36847
This shit made me laugh. Thanks for your post. Oh, and the gif is adorable!

>>36848
Don't leave! I'll feel sad.

 No.36852

>>36850
Being willing to talk about something I don't like, does not make me "tweeked" about it. Just the same as posting "u mad" doesn't mean the other person is actually mad, if anything it kind of makes it look like you're projecting or something of the matter.

Anyways, is a show that intends itself to be as incoherent and stupid as possible suddenly to be taken seriously when it achieves its goals of being incoherent and stupid? Obviously not. I don't think the intended goal of moe or "CGDCT" shows is something to respected, it preys upon sexual instincts for easy points and money. Its lazy and low effort in everything it does, from the almost non-existent plot and character development, to its world and art designs consistently being generic and boring. I can honestly say I've never watched a single CGDCT show worth my time (I have however seen SOL or comedy worth my time), besides perhaps if you really want to call Haibane Renmei a "CGDCT" show. Most people wouldn't refer to it as that, instead preferring to call it a more mature SOL that just so happens to have little succubi as the characters; but if you want I'll say it is one. However I've watched far, far more than just 10 moe shows - so sturgeons law might be getting a little bit thin at this point. Maybe he meant 99.9% instead of 90%.

As I've said, it's not there is literally nothing to the genre, it has everything to technically make a "story". The problem is that by design there is a constriction on creativity due to the forced nature of its lighthearted "cuteness", a inability to become complex due to its mandatory mold of simplicity, and an extremely tight stranglehold on depth due to the amount of time dedicated to idiotic conversions about nothing and the before mentioned issues. There is a lot more that ruins this genre, but my post is already getting rather long here. I do appreciate you being more honest than the other poster, but I also think that moe is a cheapened and devalued version of whatever real genre it takes including SOL.

 No.36853

File: 1622867353935.gif (2.24 MB, 612x344, 153:86, d3c7be8919d3ed88b76665cb7e….gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>36852
>Anyways, is a show that intends itself to be as incoherent and stupid as possible suddenly to be taken seriously when it achieves its goals of being incoherent and stupid? Obviously not.
Yes, actually. It has fully accomplished its goal of entertaining you, despite or perhaps precisely because of the dumb and random twists and turns it takes. That is good writing worthy of being 'taken seriously', for a multitude of reasons, not least because you're still going along with it despite its bullshit. Story doesn't exist in a logical vacuum, devoid of all its supporting pillars, such as tone, aesthetics, characters, and so on. Back Arrow is accomplishing this at this very moment. Code Geass did it in the past. Arguably Gurren Lagann or Nichijou even. I'm quite certain I could name a few more examples if I cared to remember, but they all universally have the dumbest fucking illogical "plots" that they just make work somehow, as if by magic. Despite not following your stringently stupid criterion, they are still good stories worthy of being told. Fancy that.

>something I don't like

I'm not bothering to respond to the rest of your post, as you're genuinely a poster not worth discussing with, so I'll just quote that relevant bit. CGDCT is "something (you) don't like" and that's just it, despite how many long-winded inane rants you make "justifying" it.

But nevertheless, it's objectively good.

 No.36854

>>36852
This is like saying dessert food is worthless because it doesn't have the nutritional value of vegetables. The purpose of dessert food isn't to provide nutritional value, its purpose is pleasure and short term happiness.

A tremendous amount of effort can be put into crafting a gourmet dessert which can distinguish it as having more merit than a cheap convenience store bag of candy. However if your only means of measuring value is nutrition, then almost all dessert is going to be judged as worthless.

Get what I'm saying?

 No.36855

>>36854
I get what you're saying, but I also would disagree with the example. A dessert could be any show that is lighthearted and fun like SOL or Comedy usually is, while CGDCT would be a specific dessert such as the convenience store candy you mentioned. You can dress up and manipulate the candy all you want, but its limited by its extreme sugar content and inability to be anything more than a bunch of processed trash served in a plastic bag.

Lets say however I'm just being pedantic with the example, which maybe I am - how do I feel about your point? I don't think "short term pleasures" are worthwhile or more importantly equal to longer term happiness. Going back to my first example; I don't think gorging yourself on fastfood is a great idea either, but it certainly probably feels good while eating it in the moment, otherwise why else would people do it? Does that mean I should respect fast food as a form of culinary art or good life choice in general? No, I won't. If I'm to make a bit of a leap here, I would this is the same kind of thinking that leads to "objective" measuring of art, such that is lots of people like something, then it must be good. Just because something achieves its goal or makes people "happy" doesn't mean its worthy of respect.

You may say again that I'm merely judging it wrongly based on aspects it doesn't care about, which is true, it really doesn't care about themes, character development, plot, ideas, creativity, and all the rest that makes stories and art worthwhile in my eyes. It is at the end of the day just a sugary carbonated drink, its not good for you, its not complex is the slightest, it doesn't even taste that good, its so sugary that its very limited in flavor, and honestly you're clearly just succumbing your lesser desires when you consume it if you were to be honest with yourself.

>>36853
Poor lad still desperate for my attention, I hope you aren't going to reply to every post I make after I already told you I had no interest in speaking with you. Are you lonely or something?

 No.36856

>>36855
>I hope you aren't going to reply to every post I make
Why wouldn't I? It takes next to no effort to continuously debase you while I simply watch anikino.

>it really doesn't care about themes, character development, plot, ideas, creativity

And here you are again, padding your posts out with meaningless babble to give off the impression of any intelligible point. Protip: themes, character development, ideas, and arguably even creativity, all fall under the umbrella of overall "plot." In fact, it could not exist without those foundational structures. Your statement amounts to nothing more than repetition and steadfast refusal to acknowledge any viewpoint on story-crafting but your own, no matter how monstrously biased and ludicrous it clearly is. You are just an idiot.

 No.36857

>>36856
Absolutely obsessed with me lol

 No.36858

File: 1622871708909.gif (283.2 KB, 417x480, 139:160, 1622684742577.gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>36857
Absolutely defeated by me lol

 No.36859

File: 1622871955472.png (1.17 MB, 1366x768, 683:384, yum.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>36855
>A dessert could be any show that is lighthearted and fun like SOL or Comedy usually is, while CGDCT would be a specific dessert such as the convenience store candy you mentioned.

CGDCT is a particular kind of dessert. The style doesn't appeal to you. You like eating chocolate, some other people prefer eating sorbet. A lot of your argument about sorbet being bad seems to be based on the fact that you personally don't enjoy the flavor.

An example on how quality varies within the genre. Compare Stella no Mahou to New Game. New game recycles the typical formula for a hobby based show, recycles character archetypes, offers no new insights, and fades quickly from my memory because it's content has little emotional impact. It's like a bag of sour patch kids or a hersheys chocolate bar. I enjoy it and derive pleasure, but its not well made candy and my enjoyment is moderate to low. On the other hand, you have Stella no Mahou. It is dessert and doesn't try to be more, but still makes a effort do be a good dessert through the quality of its art, authenticity of its storytelling, and emotional impact. What sets it apart in particular for me: Stella (the MC) has a love for her father that the show presents in a way which feels sincere and heartfelt, manufactured realistically enough to stir my own feelings, and connect me to her. Likewise, her involvement in her videogame club is much less cookie-cutter; her developing understanding of the merit of art offers some genuine insight into why art can have tremendous meaning even if you do not have the skill to ever be a true master.

I think you are a little biased about this particular medium.

>I don't think "short term pleasures" are worthwhile or more importantly equal to longer term happiness


I completely agree. You should eat only a moderate amount of dessert and your primary diet should be meals of much more nutritional substance. However, whether or not you should be eating dessert at all is a different discussion.

 No.36860

The fight is over. Seeing every aspect of it, the winner is clear.

>>36858
>>36853
>>36847
Is smug as hell, and post excellent cute gifs of moe that contributes to his smugness.

However, I rest his a point because he used a pork picture instead an anime one in >>36849

>>36848
>>36846
>>36855
He tried to maintain the calm, I give him one point for that, but he get obviously touched by the anime poster smug reaction. And most importanly, he can't appreacite moe. He is totally on the ground, destroyed.

 No.36861

File: 1622872890405.png (227.29 KB, 561x396, 17:12, wowowowowowowowowow.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>36859
Totally unfair to New Game. It offers insight across all spheres of the video game development world, gives incredible emotional impact via developing character relationships, and is wrapped in a cute aesthetic to blunt what would otherwise be a fairly dry tale of office environs. It even briefly touches upon the medium of art, and specifically the motivation to get good at it, via a few of its characters. I personally didn't really connect with Stella and it's been a while since it aired regardless so I can't truly remember it and thus compare, but I feel it did at least as well as that show in these regards, if not better. It certainly wasn't no Slow Start or Sora yori mo though.

>authenticity of storytelling

Don't use that sort of meaningless babblephrase unless you're going to explicitly state your intentions for it. New Game was no less "authentic" a story than any other, or was it somehow lying?

 No.36862

>>36859
Personally I don't think "everything is subjective man" discussions are of any real point, otherwise you might as well just say everything is equal and in reality we only have subjective delusions of what is actually just the same thing. To show that, I could just say "your argument about sorbet being good seems to be based on the fact that you personally enjoy the flavor.", and then what? Nothing, that's what. In my eyes its just a defensive position people take to either end the conversation or avoid certain ideas being presented. Not that ending a conversation is bad, but I would rather the approach be honest with what it is, rather than hiding beside "its all subjective" type points.

I don't doubt there is better or worse moe shows, I can agree very easily there are better or worse shows. For instance I rather enjoy Aria the animation and nichijou over many other moe shoes. My point is more so that the genre is handicapped by default, its ceiling and sky are closer to the ground because of its very own nature. It strange that you mentioned tired formulas when that is at its heart what moe or "CGDCT" really is, it is the most limiting genre of all really. Another limiting genre is battleshounen, but even then there is so much more freedom due to story allowing for real development and its tone to not be forced into a single idea like moe is. It still has its pit falls, and trust me I don't particularly enjoy the genre what so ever; but is it better the moe overall? Yes.

>However, whether or not you should be eating dessert at all is a different discussion.

I think its a valid conversation, and actually I don't eat dessert at all. Then again I rarely eat for the sake of "enjoyment", for myself I eat for a purpose and that is nutrition. Short term "enjoyment" is just a side aspect of eating that comes as a by product of the actual intended goal. However to get back to the relevant topic, I don't see a use for moe that is not fulfilled better by just watching the raw SOL or Comedy itself. What really does moe offer compared to the normal SOL or Comedy? Limited tone? Constricted creativity? Forced character designs? What is the part of moe that make it worthwhile? It's only the "cuteness" that moe fans really want, everything else is just the filler for them.

>>36858
Yea that's the type of thought process I expected from someone like you, which is exactly why I said I wouldn't reply to your ever-lowering-quality-discussion ride. Only someone who felt like they "lost" would be this obnoxious in wanting to argue with someone who already said they would rather not interact with you. It's ok lad, you can "lose" an anonymous internet argument and no one will ever know because you are anonymous. No one cares, its going to be alright. Just hang in there, I know you are lonely and really have nothing else to do but shitpost, but honestly, I'm not interested.

 No.36863

File: 1622874471903.gif (906.53 KB, 500x284, 125:71, 9b47cc247d97607d4e8bca3aa1….gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>36862
>Yea that's the type
Stay defeated. I offered a multitude of various explanations determining exactly how thoroughly incorrect you are, in almost every post. You skipped over them all like a pathetic coward, instead branding and ignoring them as 'dishonest' arguments as if they were faulty rebuttals of your drivel (they weren't) only to come crawling back now for the 'last word' when it's beyond obvious that you won't get the instant validation for your lunacy that you clearly wanted. Smug mocking is all you deserve, you philistine faggot.

 No.36864

File: 1622876129463.jpg (155.97 KB, 500x695, 100:139, R6ed0d9ab58847fc396b2f7988….jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>36861
opps, stepped on some toes

it offered insight into the videogame development world. this is true.

however its characters conform to archetypes and lacked unique traits (authenticity) to set them apart from what you usually get in the genre. the workplace/club setting never really went off the beaten path, so i never once saw the work place from a new/unique perspective (authenticity) or gained any real insight. the relationships between the characters also seemed to be typical of the genre: superficial constructs to generate cute situations with little real humanity behind them (authenticity).

i dropped it after an few episodes. if my appraisal is wrong, explain why and i'll give it another go.

>>36862

>Personally I don't think "everything is subjective man" discussions are of any real point


All human reasoning is subjective. But I agree that the discussion around subjectivity is rarely productive.

>I think its a valid conversation, and actually I don't eat dessert at all. Then again I rarely eat for the sake of "enjoyment", for myself I eat for a purpose and that is nutrition. Short term "enjoyment" is just a side aspect of eating that comes as a by product of the actual intended goal.


It's going to be really difficult for me to argue the merits of dessert to someone who refuses to eat it, and that challenge is only greater when considering you reject all short-term pleasure as meaningless. which is pretty much the entire purpose of dessert.

transient pleasure is less important than pursuits that create a deeper sense of fulfillment. however, you can enjoy transient pleasures as a side-dish (sorry to keep using food metaphors) to provide additional happiness to your daily life. you shouldn't pursue short term pleasure at the expense of long term fulfillment, but i think enjoying some in an accessory capacity is fine and can heighten the sense of meaning you derive from life.

>My point is more so that the genre is handicapped by default, its ceiling and sky are closer to the ground because of its very own nature.


Like any style, it has set perimeters that it must function within, but I would argue this isn't a "quality ceiling".

to use Stella no Mahou as an example. Its another fucking club anime about a cutie joining a group of succubi to do succubus shit. its firmly planted in the boundaries of the genre. however, it brings things to the table that have merit. stella has a unique collection of character traits that make her more distinctive that typical characters. the way the show articulates stella's feelings for her father (through her words and actions) is true to life, coming across as more founded in reality than you usually get. the way the show reveals why stella loves her father is subtle, happening gradually over the course of the show, constantly revealing new nuance in their relationship, and it does this without ever actually bringing the dad in as a character. add to that the show seeks to debate and ultimately take a distinctive stance on the merit of amateur art. though the progression style of the story and content of it's narrative are indicative of the genre to an extent that borders on cliche, it offers a unique and tender perspective on what art is and why it is a meaningful pursuit even for people who lack talent.

it's dessert designed to make me feel good, but it took insight and talent to make.

>>36863
all your posts make me laugh, thank you

 No.36865

File: 1622878297843.gif (846.92 KB, 720x405, 16:9, e2d4d447a76045209114da1ef8….gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>36864
>opps, stepped on some toes
No, not at all. It definitely wasn't meant to come off like that if it did. I just like and want to talk about anime of all sorts and it really was an unfair comparison.

I don't have any particular interest in New Game specifically, so I won't bother to write a wall of text about it as it seems like it'd be a hard sell for you anyways. Especially since what you are saying isn't necessarily wrong either, but more like a gross oversimplification. It actually is a little more in depth than than you allow, but not to the level that it'll revolutionize your way of thinking about the characters, the industry, the relations, etc etc, or even leave a lasting impression at all. It's just a solidly crafted yuribait story with an unconventional setting/gimmick, OK character development and banter, and vidya. It's good, definitely above average, but it ain't great by any means. Maybe try giving the manga a speedread or something if you really care, since the anime was almost 1:1

>i dropped it after an few episodes.

Goddamnit people why does everyone keep insisting on comparing apples to oranges

 No.36866

>>36865
i've had my heart broken and my hopes dashed too many times. maybe it's made me overly dismissive of things that are better than i allow.

> It actually is a little more in depth than than you allow, but not to the level that it'll revolutionize your way of thinking about the characters, the industry, the relations, etc etc, or even leave a lasting impression at all.


most of the time this is all i hope for. something that is well done enough for me to have a decent ride when i'm in the mood. pretty sure i still have it on my harddrive, i'll take a look.

you have any recommendations for shows? its been a while since ive watched an anime in this genre and all this talk has put me in the mood. >>36862 mentioned nichijou as a good show. it's been on my watch list for a while, might be time to hit it up.

 No.36868

it's good for entry level anime fans but anyone who isn't a low iq coomer moves on from moe pretty quick

 No.36869

File: 1622886782186.gif (3.03 MB, 540x371, 540:371, e849bbb9d8ad069ea255bbde01….gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>36866
>you have any recommendations for shows?
Outside of what I already recommended? Slow Start was great, with surprisingly complex characters, drama, and better than average animation. It also had good character songs. Anima Yell was pleasant, though ultimately not super memorable unless you have impeccable tastes like me and really like cheerleaders. Ochikobore Fruit Tarts was fairly insightful, lewd, and deeply unironically ironically meta about its topics and themes. Mikakunin de Shinkoukei is older, from the time that Doga Kobo still tryharded, but the manga is still ongoing and only getting better so I'd recommend both watching and reading it, especially since the portion that the anime covers coincides with the earlier portion of the manga which had wonk-ass art. Action Heroine Cheer Fruits is a bit of an odd-duck in this listing, but despite trying to spread its reach a little too far, is still a perfectly serviceable sentai show. I'll assume you've watched Yorimoi, Yurucamp, and/or Gochiusa as everyone with taste has already done so.
Perhaps try Machikado Mazoku? Excepting only Yorimoi, it's by far and beyond the best of anything I've mentioned thus far, but I speak as a manga-reader as well. The first season probably wouldn't leave you with an accurate impression since the series is a pretty slow burn and takes a while to reveal its hand. Not to imply it's bad or anything, it's actually an incredibly well directed and comedic season that simultaneously subtly sets up the incredible lore and developments that come later, but that you might still be left wondering why people just won't shut the fuck up about it as an anime-only. S2 already confirmed though, so any day now!

Honestly, just go take a look at Kirara's lineup and note anything that even remotely catches your eye. They don't do bad work and are responsible for roughly 75% of all CGDCT anyways. I'll mention Mewkledreamy and Show By Rock as well, though they are only dubiously under the genre's label expectations. They're incredible though so whatever I don't give a fuck.

 No.36870

>>36864
To continue our dessert exploration, the problem I have with them is that regular food provides nutrition while ALSO providing short term pleasure in it's satiating of hunger and great flavors as well. Why would I ever bother with a dessert that has no long term benefit and only short term pleasure, while for instance a nice slab of salmon not only satisfies my hunger and desire for flavor, but also has future benefits that will come to give me longer lasting happiness? Even then, due to being "dessert" its generally limited in flavor to being sweet to appease our human nature of loving sugary things; yet a normal meal can have sweet flavors or not at all, showing another variable that desserts lack in. There are more or less healthy desserts, unique flavor combinations within some, and can be better or worse off than each other; my point is that by default desserts are lesser than a proper meal.

I haven't watched Stella no Mahou, nor will I honestly, sorry but I've seen enough moe to last a lifetime. So it's hard for me to speak about how valid your ideas on that show are, but if I am to guess by "happening gradually" and being "subtle" you mean to say that in small moments hidden among the idiotic moe conversations, there is sometimes a show worth watching hidden deep in the trash pile. This is a problem I have with many moefans, they (maybe you or maybe not) take this position as if I believe there is NOTHING good in moe, which is simply not true. Not only that but they pretend as if I think their shows have NO themes or something of the matter. The problem isn't that there is never a single moment of possible interest, the problem is that the moments of interest are so thinning scattered throughout, and upon reflection you realize something important… the best parts are when it ISN'T being a moe show for a few seconds or whatever they allow. That in reality a pure SOL that's made well takes the slow and "gradual" approach of moe, but instead of insulting the viewer with a never ending assault of worthless scenes - each moment has purpose in the longer outlook of the story. 3 Gatsu is a great story, and its SOL as all hell. Another great example is Only Yesterday by Ghibli, not as popular as their usual works but man it's a fantastic watch and very meandering in its nature. 2 hours spent on a story about a city office worker who goes to a rural town and recalls memories of her past, I can't think of anything else as SOL as that, but I guarantee you that movie has more to say in 2 hours than any 12+ episode of moe. Why? Because its not forced to be a simplistic cutesy whoopie stupid show for stupid people. Are there cute moments? Of course there are its Ghibli after all; but its not the basis of the entire show, its merely a by-product of making a great movie itself. Just like with desserts vs proper meals, you can have something that tastes great in the short moment you watch it, yet also provides so much more on a consistent and longer term basis.

To reiterate, its not that there isn't better or worse moe, its not that it is void of ANY meaning or depth at all, its that the actual moe part of moe is by design awful. In the same way the battleshounen parts of battleshounen are the worst moments, why in gods name would I ever care about watching a predetermined fight with no real stakes since I already know the end result? In fact watching fights scenes in general is a waste of my time unless there is animation close to something like Akira or Redline to keep me amazed at the workmanship of the animators. Just like I can say that - I can say why in gods name would I ever care about a bunch of cute succubi designed to cater around my lower instincts, talk about how they eat pastry or practise learning how to speak engrish with each other. Its a complete waste of my time, and utterly insulting to my intellect that it pretends I should find such a thing "entertaining" at all.

>>36863
Yea, yea, yea I've heard this all before, if you were so confident in your epic internet debate "win" then you would just left it as it was many posts ago. In reality you doubt yourself and believe that you "lost", which is why you continue to try to prove yourself worthy to me. It just makes you look desperate for my approval, very pathetic behaviour overall. If you believe you lost, then just accept it and move on. This womanly parade where you hover around me for my attention is just pitiful at this point. All of your actions so far confirm that what I suspected about your character was in-fact the truth, real conversation with someone like yourself is just a waste of time.

 No.36871

>>36868
It is the total opposite.
Only veteran anime fans even get into it and only those that want something more emotionally nourishing and want non-sexualized lovable/adorable characters that moé is really for and who it most appeals to.

So your comment is wrong in every way.

 No.36872

>>36871
normalnigs literally type in "best loli anime 2021" in google then watch it "ironically".. the shows it took you years to get to

 No.36874

>>36872
How the fuck would you know?
Unless you are a normie who does that and thus projects that other normies do to, you have no way of knowing that and thus are just making shit up to associate something you don't like with a no-no bad people group as to get guilt by association going.

 No.36878

File: 1622907752883.jpg (248.15 KB, 1920x1200, 8:5, konata.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>35701
Moé is good to the degree it answers questions raised by our postmodern condition, which are the same conditions for the continued production of moé.

Moé is animé produced by animé fans, it is a form of meta-animé operant at a level removed from narrative constraints. It is animé that is self-consciously animé. When critics say moé is contentless, ironic, lacks narrative, character arcs, or development, they are of course right but have entirely missed the point. If you sat down to read Finnegans Wake with preconceived notions about how a novel should be structured, you would have the same critique and it would fall equally flat. These animé fans are reactionaries who long for the animé of the 70-80s, who uncritically accept the modernist notions behind the animé of that era, without any self-awareness or further critical development of animé as a medium.

For this reason moé is incredibly sophisticated. Lucky Star is one of the most intellectual anime ever produced, as it was among the first to break through the barriers of modernism with all the cultural inertia behind it. The matériel of Lucky Star (news reports, conventions, maid cafés, karaoké) appear satirical to us now, from another world or era, precisely because we now view them from a postmodern perspective. Lucky Star reinterpreted the signs and symbols of its era, and moé has further reinterpreted and copied these symbols until the copies are completely disconnected from their origins. This process can only go so far, and we are rapidly reaching its conclusion.

What is the cultural response to moé? Like other forms of metafiction, there will be two critical streams: one that further performs a meta critique of moé, and another that reacts to moé. This response cannot take place outside the paradigm of moé, it is something that has to be gone through. It has to be this way, because the people making animé today are training the people of tomorrow, and the response to moé is conditioned by moé itself. What we can say for certain about animé as a phenomenon is consequences will never be the same.

 No.36879

>>36874
>How the fuck would you know?
first get some self-awareness then observe the community you are placing yourself in

this video has almost 1mil views moe anime is just normalfag shit

(anime) has been

 No.36880

>>36879
The only one putting himself in the hand of normalgroids is you, caring so much for what they do that they can control what you enjoy and what you don't.

 No.36881

>>36880
delusional moeshitter once again thinks he is part of some elite when he is part of the groid majority who watches sexualized anime

 No.36882

>>36878
I see anime-pseud has made his entrance with another postmodernist meta-narrative deconstruction of the human condition vying for political modernist notions of meta-reaction due to preconceived dialectics.

 No.36883

File: 1622915370989.gif (2.48 MB, 600x338, 300:169, 1894896545.gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>36881
Using buzzwords and with normalgroids living rent-free in your head, you only prove me right. The typical moehater is most of the time just a normalgroid in disguise. Sad.

 No.36884

>>36878
Not disagreeing with everything of what you said, but most moé isn't ironic or satirical (and that's a good thing). If any moé was completly satirical or ironic, it would stop being moé. Since it is something very based on sincerity.

 No.36885


 No.36887

>>36883
in my experience only posers like moe, specifically CGDCT, and it's the reason why groids love watching anime "ironically" because their only reason for watching it is that it's some "taboo pedophile toon from Japan"

imo watching moe has the same effect as watching gore videos, its just on the side of the spectrum

 No.36891

>>36885
Why are you only replying to me when I wasn't even the person who made the food analogy to begin with? At the very least include the other guy who made it himself.

 No.36892

>>36887
In my experience only seasoned veterans indulge in moetrash, I've never heard a groid talk about pedophilia or irony. It's like anecdotes work both ways.

 No.36893

>>36870
>I haven't watched Stella no Mahou, nor will I honestly, sorry but I've seen enough moe to last a lifetime.

That's fine. I may be remembering it through rose tinted glasses anyway. further, life is way to short to waste on things you dont personally enjoy.

> This is a problem I have with many moefans, they (maybe you or maybe not) take this position as if I believe there is NOTHING good in moe, which is simply not true. Not only that but they pretend as if I think their shows have NO themes or something of the matter.


i hear you, and i get this. i know you are able to see positives within the genre, and i know that you are merely arguing that they do not outweigh the negatives. i know you aren't trying to be an elitist and i know you aren't dismissing it out of hand.

>the problem is that the moments of interest are so thinning scattered throughout, and upon reflection you realize something important… the best parts are when it ISN'T being a moe show for a few seconds or whatever they allow


this is the important point you refuse to acknowledged. just because you don't like the moe moments doesn't mean they are worthless. they are worthless to you, not to me or other moe fans. WE enjoy them. just because YOU don't doesn't mean they are worthless. this is the problem with your logic, you continue to claim moe moments are worthless because you dont like them. though you have many valid arguments about flaws and stupid shit being frequently present in the genre (which i recognize applies to many shows) your argument for why the moe flavor itself is without value is based on your personal preference and taste. moe moments taste bad to you, so you say it is objectively bad.

>In the same way the battleshounen parts of battleshounen are the worst moments, why in gods name would I ever care about watching a predetermined fight with no real stakes since I already know the end result? In fact watching fights scenes in general is a waste of my time unless there is animation close to something like Akira or Redline to keep me amazed at the workmanship of the animators.


moe cuteness moments and fight scenes are often just fan service. your arguments on this point always just boil down to you saying the transient pleasure they provide is worthless because it provides no pleasure to you personally.

>the problem I have with them is that regular food provides nutrition while ALSO providing short term pleasure in it's satiating of hunger and great flavors as well. Why would I ever bother with a dessert that has no long term benefit and only short term pleasure


I like sorbet, dark chocolate, and strawberry cake. I could find healthy alternatives to all of them, but nothing has the exact flavor of them. They each give me a unique and distinctive happiness. Broadening my spectrum in how I experience happiness heightens it. if this isn't true for you that's fine, but don't dismiss my methodology of pursuing happiness as invalid just because it is different from yours.

i have now listed a very large number of reasons why eating dessert is valid for me and for many others. again, its fine if this isn't the case for you. i am not trying to encourage you to eat it (as it doesn't appeal to you) nor am I arguing it is necessary to be happy. I am simply explaining why it is a valid source of happiness for some. To this end, my evidence has been sufficient. I'm not interested in arguing this point further.

>>36869
Thanks wiz, that is a really solid response with a lot of content. I appreciate you taking the time to write that for me.

>>36885
i did this, you can blame me. if it bothers you, i'll send you an apology note along with some chocolates.

 No.36895

File: 1622992098574.gif (3.27 MB, 640x336, 40:21, later.gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>36893
I could see before you said at the bottom that you wanted to close this conversation, but I'll leave a few quick notes on things before we say goodbye. The problem I have with this post is that while I gave reason for why moe "fan service" isn't worth anyone's time (it being irrelevant conversation/comedy with no depth) that even you admit is true by calling it fan service, you then just plant you feet and state you and others enjoy it anyways. Which is sort of silly, its like watching someone use a shovel backwards to dig a hole, and he knows its stupid but tells you that's just the way he likes using the shovel. Which I mean is fine I suppose… and I respect that you admit its all just fanservice at the end of the day. What I will say however is that just because someone might enjoy something bad, doesn't make it good, which I spoke about here >>36855 in anticipation of such notions. I could go on some more, but you aren't interested anyways so I'll keep it to myself.

>I'm not interested in arguing this point further.

Thats fine, I thought our conversation was good anyways. Nice talking with you.

 No.36896

>>36879
I see you didn't actually answer the question.

And that video isn't even moe. You don't seem to even know what moe even is.

 No.36923

>>36896
moe watchers are the crabs of anime; it's the same as pop love songs on the radio or romcom movies

 No.36942

>>36887
>imo watching moe has the same effect as watching gore videos, its just on the side of the spectrum
Agreed, and I'd say it's also on the same spectrum as regular fanservice in that it exists to satisfy the viewer in a primal way that doesn't necessarily add to the story.
I notice that many people hate fanservice and gore, but have no problem with cuteness porn. Which to me is the most boring of the three - I immediately envision a cute succubus eating a cake or some shit.
I don't hate any of them: moe, gore or fanservice, but they are all sides of the same triangle.



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