[ Home ] [ wiz / dep / hob / lounge / jp / meta / games / music ] [ all ] [  Rules ] [  FAQ ] [  Search /  History ] [  Textboard ] [  Wiki ]

/lounge/ - Lounge

The Wizard's Lounge
Email
Comment
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

  [Go to bottom]   [Catalog]   [Return]   [Archive]

File: 1643226788001.jpg (69.7 KB, 612x768, 51:64, eyr6bgjosod81.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

 No.283224[View All]

A thread to discuss anything related to cryptocurrency and investing

                                   
84 posts and 15 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.288754

File: 1651507495125.gif (24.49 KB, 850x228, 425:114, 1651496192151.gif) ImgOps iqdb


 No.288766

>>288754
during the Depression, Germany actually had deflation though

 No.289126

Hahaha how's everyone holding up?? LMAOI

 No.289127

>>288766
Bro who would go on 4chan and lie

Love the wojak post btw

 No.289128

File: 1652158356987.png (852.4 KB, 1200x900, 4:3, ClipboardImage.png) ImgOps iqdb


 No.289131

>>288754
Wojak posts? Awesome.

 No.289183

I lost $30,000 because UST Terras stablecoin lost it's peg and I sold it all off.

 No.289185

>>288754
is this true?

 No.289408

>>289131
is there any better way to determine low quality posts than the sad face/frog face meme pictures?

 No.289465

Bukele is such a US disease leftover from CIA infection in El Salvador, as is most libertarian ideology

 No.289622

File: 1653472009471.jpg (509.34 KB, 1403x1337, 1403:1337, 1653453704914.jpg) ImgOps iqdb


 No.289852

We are still not in the mid 2020 levels in price on BTC or many alt coins.
I think this is not the end of the well and prices will go down even further. Too many people who jumped in during 2021 craze are still holding their bags ready to dump as soon as they break even. I think eventually the drop will be so much that they will cut their losses and panic sell.
I also expect eventually tether will blow off. It is backed by nothing, they claimed they had real dollars backing each tether but New York Attorney General basically debunked them.
>Bitfinex and Tether recklessly and unlawfully covered-up massive financial losses to keep their scheme going and protect their bottom lines,” said Attorney General James. “Tether’s claims that its virtual currency was fully backed by U.S. dollars at all times was a lie. These companies obscured the true risk investors faced and were operated by unlicensed and unregulated individuals and entities dealing in the darkest corners of the financial system. This resolution makes clear that those trading virtual currencies in New York state who think they can avoid our laws cannot and will not. Last week, we sued to shut down Coinseed for its fraudulent conduct.
Now they are coping with stating they have a mixture of us dollars some bonds and some other "investments" Again cannot be proven. I think tether will collapse eventually.
Similarly I feel monero will also have a crash. I suspect many exchanges conjure up monero from thin air and pretend they have them when in reality they don't, they can get away with this due to the anonymous nature of the coin. One day people will realize they cannot withdraw their xmr's from exchanges and it will cause a mass panic and the price of xmr will also collapse.

The crash I am expecting is still not here. So I am waiting, I am waiting for the crash. BTC <15k$ XMR <90$. Then and only then I would get in and then just wait it out for a decade or 7-8 years.
Writing this to see what other wizards think about this.

 No.289855

>>289852
ive been waiting for a few years for tether to fail.. disapointing. all it takes it spending a few minutes reading into its history now and you can't feel good about its future. but somehow it remains

i dont really care what the current dollar price of crypto is, long term i think eth and bitcoin will be super valuable so ill just keep buying bitcoin and staking eth

 No.289857

>>289855
I'm not a bitcoin maximalist. I think the days of making good money with low risk from bitcoin are long gone. Bitcoin is slow, not anonymous and have high transaction fees. I think it can be replaced by a better coin, be it monero, bitcoincash or litecoin.
But this might not happen at all either. If you hold litecoin for about a decade from 2013 you would only have a 10 dollar increase, while bitcoin increased thousands fold.
Nevertheless I think fortunes are to be made elsewhere. If BTC reaches 250.000$ that would put it half the market cap of gold. An realistically optimistic prediction imho. But supposed you buy btc when it was 25k, this would only mean you had a x10 increase. Sure x10 is great but the days of buying btc for <5k or <1k like in 2013 and then waiting it out to have x20 x30 returns are long gone. I think it is probable for an alt coin that lurks around 100-300 to reach 2k-3k or even more. So a x10 return can be found elsewhere.

And I do care too much about my buy price. I think you make money buy buying it not when selling it, especially such volatile investments like crpyto. Regardless of tether collapsing I will not buy anything until it goes below 15k.

My strategy is to buy few "true" crypto in small amounts. By true I mean no premines no centralized control (though etherium people argue against premines are not that important and I find some of the points interesting). If you really look for real decentralized crypto you will only find very few of them anyways, btc is one, bhc,xmr,lt are others. I'm planning to buy 2000$ from each, ideally 20 xmr, 20 bhc, 80 lt and 0.10-15 btc and then forget about it for a decade.

 No.289858

>>289465
He was a member of the Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front as late as the Trump years (although not in good standing)

>On 10 October 2017, Bukele was expelled from the FMLN, accused by the FMLN Ethics Tribunal of promoting internal division within the party, verbally and physically attacking fellow party member Xóchitl Marchelli,

 No.289867

>>289852
>It is backed by nothing, they claimed they had real dollars backing each tether but New York Attorney General basically debunked them
maybe this a retarded question and i dont know much about crypto, but if you wanted to make a cryptocurrency exactly equivalent to a dollar, couldnt the creators just agree to sell 1 of their coins to anyone for a dollar?

 No.289872

>>289867
That would make sense right? Sell your coin for one dollar only and only circulate that. Except they don't do that. They just "print" tether like you print anything else and claim it is equal to one usd. There is roughly around 80 billion usd worth of tether and question of how much of it is backed by dollar is quite vague
https://www.ft.com/content/529eb4e6-796a-4e81-8064-5967bbe3b4d9
https://tether.to/en/tether-releases-breakdown-of-its-reserves
here is a most recent one
https://decrypt.co/100869/new-tether-report-shows-17-reduction-commercial-paper
They basically claim this 80 billion is backed by bonds, commercial papers and some gold and cash. Yet the proof is basically "just trust us". They claim they hold "something" of 1 usd value for every 1 tether they have. But we don't have any proof. They are holding a lot of shit on bahamas and virgin islands you know places renowned for their regulations.
So in an event of panic run, when people approach them and say, okay here is my 10 tether give me my 10 dollars back, they won't have enough dollars. They are basically acting like federal reserve without being federal reserve.

Problem is almost every crypto is dependant on it. If you go to an exchange you will see almost all coins are sold in either bitcoin or in tether. So if you want to buy something, you buy it on tether/something market or bitcoin/something market. Tether being a stable coin is quite lucrative for many. You pay 100 usd to buy 100 tether minus fees, so lets assume 98 tether, and then you buy a coin you like with that 98 tether. But this is probably just a fraction of tether in existance. Had they did what you said, they would have way less tether in circulation. But Tether is so widespread and so accepted that illusion become a reality.

I think it will blow off, one day it will blow and it will cause a massive crash that would put the 2021-2022 bitcoin crash from 60 to 29k to shame.

 No.289874


 No.289875

>>289867
It doesnt work. Say someone buys a coin from the creator. Then they trade that coin for a chocolate bar to a merchant. That merchant then wants real money so he tries to sell the coin. How does he get rid of the coin? He sells to anyone who will take it. Some people might be desperately fleeing their country and need a stablecoin immediately, so theyll pay $1.10, breaking the peg. Maybe nobody wants it because it's an untrusted unknown shit, so he chooses to sell it for $0.50, because thats better than nothing, so the peg is broken.

The creator needs to buy the coin back from you for $1. This way professional traders can take advantage of cases where individuals are willing to sell their coins at slightly less or more than market value, by trading with the creator in both directions. However, to be able to buy all the coins back from people, it needs to be completely backed by dollars in a bank account.

However, banks dont even hold the money you deposit in them, they have fractional reserves because they are too greedy.

 No.289884

>>289872
>>289874
>>289875
so is it even possible to create something like tether that works? it seems like in order to keep a 1:1 ratio with a real currency you need to trust someone to print the new currency responsibly, or there needs to be a way to prove that they have reserves. unless theres a way for everyone to verify independently that the reserves are there theres always going to be room for a scam in this. also theres not really anything stopping the creators from saying theyre done with the coin and theyre gonna stop buying it off people, thus crashing the price probably. seems like a stablecoin defeats the entire purpose of cryptocurrency.

 No.289888

>>289884
yeah, just design the thing so it's 100% audible and transparent. there's no reason why you can't make a wizcoin stablecoin worth $1. to creat ethe wizcoin, people deposit dollars into your public reserve, and they get issued wizcoins. when wizcoins are exchanged back into fiat, the wizcoins are removed from circulation

and with that i actually just described tether in full… but (1) they aren't transparent about their reserves and (2) make it difficult to even redeem the tether into usd

1: there is strong evidence they were creating tethers out of thin air and there's no real way of knowing since their reserves aren't transparent

2: for example, to redeem tethers into USD, you need to basically dox yourself to the company with full legal information, pay $150, then you need at a minimum $100k usd to withdraw to a traditional bank, and they charge a massive 1% withdrawal fee for the first $1M.

none of that is crypto-friendly, but that's to be expected… since every aspect of a stablecoin makes it more like fiat


so yeah you could easily make a trustworthy stablecoin, just dont do what tether is doing

…another alternative is algorithmic stablecoins, these are decentralized and transparent, but as we saw with LUNA they are not exactly bulletproof lmao

 No.289889

>>289888
meant terra, but its based on luna

*but as we saw with TERRA they are not exactly bulletproof lmao

 No.289909

>>289884
If you're trying to peg to a non-crypto like USD, you must trust in a centralized entity, otherwise it is impossible. There is no way to trustlessly do it. It is the same as trusting a bank, so yes, to me it defeats the entire purpose of cryptocurrency. Note that the issuer can also censor/freeze any funds that they want, this already happens.

People are rapidly redefining the point of cryptocurrency, so I'd make a similar argument about the majority of "cryptos" now.
The trend over the last 5 years is that centralised companies are just trying to avoid regulations by making tokens with minimal decentralisation or fake decentralisation, because the laws leave a massive grey area.

 No.289910

>>289888
Even if you were as transparent as possible, those reserves are going to be held in centralised institutions beholden to laws, possible government seizures, theft, etc.

 No.289912

So when do you think Tether will collapse? It seems the consensus here is not if but when.
And what do you think will happen to the markets when it happens? Besides the crash of prices, I wonder how the post tether crypto world will be structured. Especially given how dependent markets are today to tether.

 No.289920

>>289912
I'm not holding my breath for it to collapse. I think it's a dangerous model and it defeats the purpose of cryptocurrency, but i see no signs of imminent collapse. People exaggerate the situation. It's a centralised model that requires trust but that doesnt mean it will ever collapse. Banks somehow keep running their absurd scams with no reserves for decades.

 No.289991

>>289909
there are some stablecoins that are pegged to gold… so that is yet another option. but that is run by same tether people so the distrust remains

>>289910
well that's all unavoidable, but still it's possible to make something better than tether if you improve on the things i said

>>289912
at this point idk what will cause it to collapse, there has been so many red flags but no one cares because it's too useful to fail maybe. but if it ever crashes, theoretically all a rich person has to do is buy it all up for example $0.10 and then exchange it for $1.00… if tether has enough in reserve

 No.290014

File: 1653976277729.jpg (215.56 KB, 1170x740, 117:74, 1653975433159.jpg) ImgOps iqdb


 No.290357

File: 1654604025266.png (146.09 KB, 219x231, 73:77, ClipboardImage.png) ImgOps iqdb

>sell on ebay :) nice little money
>mine some crypto :) yeah nice little income
>sold over a certain amount so they will report your money made to the irs
>need bookkeeping software to keep track of costs of goods sold
>need to open a new bank account
>need to convert paypal into a business account
>the need to open a personal paypal account and switch all your personal stuff to that to avoid mixing personal and business
>need to file form 1040 because you're a tax piggy
>this references forms W-2, 1041, 1099, 4562, 6198, 8829
>need to file form 1040 schedule d for capital gains because we already know all this info but who cares
>this references forms 1040-NR, 1040-SR, 1099-B, 2439, 4684, 4797, 4952, 6252, 6781, 8824, 8949
>they leave it up to you to figure out if you are required to file these forms
>each form also endlessly references yet even more other forms
>figure out you need to file form 8949 because you traded crypto
>your crypto exchange doesn't give you a form 1099 because they aren't required to until 2024 or something
>need to for every single crypto transaction manually yourself because fuck you
>need to file form 1040 schedule c because anything is considered a business activity now
>this references forms W-2, 1040-NR, 1040-SR, 1041, 1065, 1099, 4562, 6198
>plus all sorts of other fun forms that get referenced when looking up all this shit online and i have no idea if they are necessary
>any slight change in financial behavior and suddenly you need to file another form

the great pain is that irs already has 99% of this fucking information. that's why when you make a mistake they can safely audit you. but regardless they make you file it yourself. why? because tax filing companies have lobbied and made laws preventing the government from just doing our taxes for us. so we are left with this bureaucratic hellscape of tax shit. something so gay and convoluted people can't even handle thinking about it and so risk penalty of perjury, felony charges, insane fines and auditing by not filing. you have two realistic options as soon as you touch stocks/crypto or business-related ventue, consult an CPA or use INTUIT's tax filing software… the people responsible for this bullshit

this is so fucking lame

 No.290363

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1ss24a6

guy claims to have archived 137GB of cryptocurrency telegram chats using an exploit and will progressively release it. pretty damning claims made. no one is sure if it's legit or not, only time will tell, but no doubt some people are panicking

 No.290390

>>290363
Seem genuine. I was going to write an interesting name choice maybe he has cancer and regrets the scams he committed and realized he said that on post lel.
Also an interesting tweet reply to someone denying such exploit existed.
>I can confirm I have used that exploit throughout 2020 and 2021 to gain access to chats. Can I confirm that tweeter has the info claimed, no. But the exploit exists, so it is possible that have dirt. I'm certain gov agencies are using it to its full potentially too btw

I hope it creates enough damage to destroy this bubble but I doubt it. How many millions were lost on retarded rugpulls from last year? It will be probably in the same line. Maybe it will destroy few coins here and there but thats it. I doubt this shit will destroy Tether (as it should) and the like.
I will not delve in crypto until it goes back to 2019-2020 prices. People seem to have a very short term memory, and don't realize btc is still higher than it was 2 years ago. Collapse I'm waiting is not near enough.
>>290357
Sorry you have to endure that, they made it a mess for americans surely.
My biggest beef in crypto is with kyc, I'm perfectly fine with paying taxes but I don't want my id and passport and picture on some server in Seychelles owned by some 20 something crypto bro.

 No.290391

>>290390
you can use p2p sites like localmonero. i've cash out over $50k through there, and originally puchased on a different p2p site. never had any problems

 No.290394

>>290391
Thanks, yeah I know that place, bisq seems even better. But I am still waiting for the collapse. I still think we are not there. Compared to say late 2013 crash. I will start to buy when I see people killing themselves and have suicide hotline is at top line on variety of places. Buy roughly 5-10k$ and then forget about it for a decade. That is my plan

I think the biggest trap is to see your 1k becoming 2k and then pondering why not going all in, putting your entire savings into it and eventually get destroyed. I'm thinking about what crypto might be still alive in 5 10 15 years of time, I have few candidates. So I'm betting on those. If they become next Ethereum in marketcap welp it will be a nice profit. If they don't welp I lost 5-10k$ on some retardation oh well, roughly one year worth of my expense.

 No.290886

btc under 20k
eth under 1k

never actually bought crypto with usd, always mined it. im still minimg the same eth regardless of what it trades for in dollars. longterm it doesnt really matter i think it will go up a lot. tons of ppl freaking out though. i think this is good, all that stimulus shit was insane amyway, idk why anyone thought it wpuld just keep going up

 No.290917

I had over $2m worth, now only worth less than $400k. Life ruined again

 No.290918

>people saying they're going to buy right now

We aren't anywhere near the bottom LMAO

 No.290921

>>290918
should i do it? the last few crashes, i was always thinking its always come back before, but this time could be the last

well most people who own bitcoin are assholes, so i could feel like if i go down, im taking millions of assholes down with me

 No.290933

>>290918
do you think we are near its longterm max? if not it doesn't matter what the price is

 No.290952

>>290917
hope you lose it all

 No.290953

>>290917
>I had over $2m worth

So you didn't sell when it obviously was going to crash, like it did multiple times before?

You deserve to lose it for being greedy.

 No.290959

>>290953
I can only cash out small amounts at a time because i evaded taxes. If I paid taxes I would have literally nothing now, so I dont consider that to be a bad decision.
I should have swapped to stablecoins but im afraid to hold those too

 No.290961

>>290959
>I can only cash out small amounts at a time because i evaded taxes. If I paid taxes I would have literally nothing now, so I dont consider that to be a bad decision.

I find that hard to believe

 No.290962

>>290961
>approx 50% taxes
>more than 50% crash after the tax cutoff date
>the losses would be in a different tax year
>dont even have assets worth as much as the tax bill

 No.291039

>>290962
Who am I to judge but I would've chosen my battles more wisely. Evading tax is not worth it.
Even without the tax option you should've not kept that much money in such a volatile place. BTC can be 100k next year or 1k in 6 months. Same with all other cryptos, all very volatile.
Hope everything turns out well for you.
>>290933
>>290921
>>290918
>>290886
Imho the biggest bubble will be either when Tether collapses or a world wide recession happens. In the first there will be a massive liquidity crisis in the second people will panic sell and try to get out. When that happens only gods know how far it will fall. I see both as inevitable.
BTC went from around 20k to around 3k from 2017 to 2020. Only in late 2020 it truly climbed up 10k and stayed there. Imagine buying it at 20k in late 2017 and panic selling it on 3k in late 2018.

But personally I have few alt coins I want to invest and I am waiting for their prices to go down. (I explained why I'm not a btc max here >>289857). When they are my target price I will buy with a little bit of money and then wait for my target. At worst outcome I will lose 5000usd at best outcome I will sell it at 100000usd. That money is enough for me. I don't need to go all in and win big and I think crypto is way to volatile to invest big.

 No.291067

>>291039
>Who am I to judge but I would've chosen my battles more wisely.
10 years ago I was very young and had never dreamed that $15 BTC would turn to $60k. I doubt many people can be such a god to have such foresight

 No.291138

File: 1655991419905.jpg (137.51 KB, 736x917, 736:917, external-content.duckduckg….jpg) ImgOps iqdb

So far I earn 200 dollars a month, I save it all since I leech off parents.
after parents die,my neetbux will be 1000 dollars a month.
Do keep in mind in my country, even 100 dollars is a lot. What are my options,given that my interests is merely a simple life,maybe travelling within my own country once or twice a year?

 No.291358

>>291067
One lucky wizard.
And people who often make big money from crypto were those who forgot about it. Those who thought it might have some value sold it when it hit 1000. Many tried to sell at 20-25 and then panicked when it get down to less than 5 during between 2016-2020. Those who become rich were those who bought 1000 btc as a novelty in 2011, forgot about it and then sold it later on.

But I think one should consider the ability to take the risk alongside willingness to take the risk. IF you have say 5 million your lifestyle will not be that different compared to 10 million. What are you going to do with extra 5 mil? Buy more lambos? But if your 5 mil goes down to 250k then it will be trouble.
So I think people should have a mark and should be able to say enough is enough. Reminds me of the tale of Boomers who had millions of dollars in investments but decided to make their millinos two digits, only to lose them all on either dotcom or 2008 crash.
>>291138
Crypto is highly volatile. BTC went from 20k to 3k and from 9k to 60k to 19k in less then few years.
It is a casino. If you time it right you can double your money or lose everything too.
I suggest you to look into other investment alternatives. Owning something of value can never hurt, gold,land,real estate. They also fluctuate but not as brutal as crypto.

 No.291359

>>291358
> And people who often make big money from crypto were those who forgot about it.
The only crypto millionaire I know (that still might be lying) only has it because he used to buy drugs and left some in his wallet. It’s insane that if I had just been a junkie smoking weed all day for a decade I could be a multimillionaire now.

 No.291361

>>291359
How delusional. Don't you see that such data is pure bait?

 No.291618

Its patriotic to pay taxes ;)


[View All]
[Go to top] [Catalog] [Return][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ Home ] [ wiz / dep / hob / lounge / jp / meta / games / music ] [ all ] [  Rules ] [  FAQ ] [  Search /  History ] [  Textboard ] [  Wiki ]