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 No.284039[Last 50 Posts]

What measures would a sustainably moderatable imageboard use? Hundreds of messages or more a day with no posting filters becomes tedious for a mid-sized team to proactively monitor. In that case, how can an imageboard sustainably filter out bad posters?

- Word filters? People always find a way around them.
- Algebra or advanced math problem captchas? Selects for impressive autismo, but filters out good verbal posters with limited math skills.
- Graduating ban levels, with warnings or 3 day bans for light offenses like spam or advertising, or 6 month bans for CP, or whatever lengths are appropriate, should be considered.

What other options would be workable?


Do you not see the /meta/ board when you came here?
That is really where this thread belongs in all honesty.


I don't think he's talking about Wizchan's enforcement in particular but rather just how sites in general are able to sustain against spam and trolls.


Yes, I'm considering making an IB that would focus on age 25 and up topics, while allowing younger posters to participate usefully, and acknowledging anime roots.


Zero moderation, fuck the jannies fuck the mods.


>tedious for a mid-sized team to proactively monitor.
This is why you need a team comprised of users who want to read every post made on the site because they enjoy doing it, even if they're not obligated to. If they're already interested in everything being posted, being able to read the posts in the more convenient way offered by most board engine's mod panel will be a bonus. If a post is made that happens to break the rules, then they delete it where they would have reported it before being modified.

In order to have a community with such users, your board needs to be aimed at a specific niche of people who are all united by a single trait they all share, be it a hobby or a status (virgin, NEET, etc). For instance, I try to read every post made here and I report violations I see regularly. I do so because as a wizard who has felt the perils of both longterm basement neetdom and hard labour 8-6 wageslavery, I am connected in despair to many users here. There's a soul-bond between all men who experience the same trauma, those who can see the world through each others eyes. Because of this, i value the opinions of users here far more than I do of random sexhavers and gladworkers. Call it tribalism, camaraderie, in-group preference. It's the natural way of men, and it's why we're all here in the first place. It's why sites based around a certain country or language, despite having no discussion topic theme to follow, are still thriving.

If you board is just a general "whatever" board, then you're going to wind up with a slow board loaded with destructive posts. Those who value talking with random people who they share no life experiences with have already found a place to do so. The bar, social medias, or even one of the existing imagebaords already aimed at general discussion, or at least has a non-topic board. The posters you do have will either treat the board as just a shitpost central, or they will find other users on it who share similar interests and attempt to build an identity for the board around this group, leading to namefaggery, cliques forming, in-fighting among the separate groups, and finally a /meta/storm of them all arguing that the board should be for one group and not for another.

>how can an imageboard sustainably filter out bad posters?

Give them an outlet. A /b/, a no-rules general, a void to shout in to.

>- Word filters? People always find a way around them.

The just tends to make bad people laugh. It lets them know of a word or subject that's not appreciated, so they can just use that against your userbase. We filter "Dubbed anime enjoyer" to "crab", and yet wizards still talk about and accuse each other of being dubbed anime enjoyers (but it's more funny with the wordfilter). You could make a list of words used by a specific group you don't want posted, i.e a list of Reddit-tier memes, ebonics, ascii faces, etc. But if they're so insufferable that even their language isn't allowed, chances are a wordfilter will just confuse them and encourage them to post more to test.

>- Algebra or advanced math problem captchas? Selects for impressive autismo, but filters out good verbal posters with limited math skills.

Discrimination!!!!!! Yes, this will kill the board even if it's a math-themed site. Captchas are only good for automated spam prevention. It forced users to comply with things many internet-types don't like, such as day-1 modern browsers, scripts, and static ips/cookies if they prefer a VPN.

>- Graduating ban levels, with warnings or 3 day bans for light offenses like spam or advertising, or 6 month bans for CP, or whatever lengths are appropriate, should be considered.

This is how pretty much all sites work, but with VPNs and proxies, a permanent ban is no more than a warning, assuming the offender even had the same IP long enough to see the ban. For most delinquents, a ban or warning is an invitation to come back and flood and destroy with a new IP. A captcha could slow them down, but not stop them entirely.

>6 month bans for CP

Regarding CP… All it took was one image stored in the database when Dreamhost happened to run a CSAM scan, and immediately the site and account was obliterated. I think the same thing happened to Grimchan the other day, and some big multi-million post board a few weeks back that I can't remember. CP is such a hot coal that VPN users will use it to get sites taken down. That happened to a Wizchan community project 6 or 7 years ago. CP violations demand a zero-tolerance policy. Permabans for posting requesting, and warnings for anyone who participated. You need to be able to scrub files from the server, and give mods the ability to do the same. On the note, you also need mods who have the capacity to view even hurtcore CP at any time they are also online. No shaky-legged moralfriends browsing from their family room PC. They also need to understand the nature of being someone who technically "accessed" CP and has varying grades of evidence of such on their system. This extends to users too. When CP is posted to boorus, many comments and forum posts are made by users expressing their departure from the site as a result. These are people with 2D loli rape guro in their favorites. People of all type fear the candy, and what it can do. It's kind of absurd… At this point in time, before even started any site with user-generated content, you NEED to have an account with your federal LEA and report on EVERYTHING. You need to be able to flash the relevant access log strings, the file info before and after processing, maybe the image itself, and all interactions made from those who are linked to the offender by IP, cookies, etc. You need to submit it ASAP to the agency and keep records for yourself. This is what the aforementioned boorus do. It's what's needed to have CSAM checks removed from your site. Unfortunately, such a service isn't always available. Some hosts don't allow checks to be deactivated, some only allow it on pricey dedicated servers. To invite users to post images with VPNs/Tor on to your site which is on a VPS monitored by the Big Eye.. Spelling doom.

body too long


>an IB that would focus on age 25 and up topics, and acknowledging anime roots.
>age 25 and up topics
This ambiguity will only fuel confusion and militant user-defining. You'll wind up with a site full of threads that most users will complain about for not fitting their own definition of what constitutes 25+, or you'll end up with no threads at all if they all happen to break your own rule. Rules need to be as clear and transparent as possilble. Wizchan has its own guidelines that are kidn of up in the air, such as what's regarded as and outsider meme or /r9k/-tier post, but those relate to the sentiments of what the board is at its core (a place for male virgins-by-choice) because both those things are used to either antagonize virgins or demean oneself for being a virgin.

>while allowing younger posters to participate usefully

This will only manifest as those too young to post simply lying about their age, and will instill witch-hunts against suspected younglings.

>and acknowledging anime roots.

This is good. It's easy to do so with words and banners.

To be totally honest I don't think started a new imageboard is worth it these days. There are so many to chose from so every nche has been filled, and as an operator, the landscape of the interent has changed so much that it's impossible to gatekeep and enforce rules effectively. Available imageboard software is all a mess of fragmented devs trying to make the next best thing, and as a result installing and maintaining of new boards requires a lot of tweaking and fixes, for which you'll need a developer.

So if you plan on making an imageboard, here's some things you'll need:
-Friends who share an interest, have many private hours to moderate, can withstand being called faggots all day by the same guy ban evading, and have no problems viewing CP, or scat, or animal torture, or gore. (I've seen a mix of all 4 on a board once. I couldn't report it because I couldn't solve the CAPTCHA!!!)
-A unique approach, something not covered by other boards
-Clarity and ambiguity in your rules.
-Stable finances
-Time and patience that would make a monk reach for his smartphone
-The ability to speak up and be mean to your fellows if you must
-A developer able to decipher the bunged git contributions of over 300 angry troons tying to ruin the software you're running to spite heteros (see Lainchan)
Even if you have all that, you'll still need users. Want to know the one universal rule that all imageboards share? Advertising other boards. Even if you do get your name out there, you'll also have to convince several users why your board is better than the one they're using. You'll also have to convince them that your'e not a fed, a Lolcow farmer, or just a weird guy in general. You almost need to have a pseudonymous social media account with a history of not being an enraged normalfag. Wizardchan had a thousand strong exiled from R9K. Krautchan had Germans. 4chon had Germans banned from Krautchan. Even 8chan was an exile community. Which unsatisfied board users will your site be a refuge for?

Consider a forum instead. Accounts to subvert ban evasion and trolling. Less user-submitted content. No spambots programmed to mess with your software choice. Slower, easier to digest for most (especially the older crowd). Staff's posting history visible and searchable by any users would help you to set the tone for the site. It's good you want to make a site and I'd very much like another place to talk about anime and games with other men my age, but don't jump head in. Get your hosting sorted out. Set up you software, test it thoroughly, get some guys you trust who share all your interests, and start posting among yourselves. Find out how to get your board's name out there (I have no idea how). Let users goof off but if they start making the site a pain to use, tell them why they are to stop, even if they stop being your e-friend.


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>What measures would a sustainably moderatable imageboard use? Hundreds of messages or more a day with no posting filters becomes tedious for a mid-sized team to proactively monitor.
You would just have some php that dumps all newly submitted posts into a queue, and generate a new posts page from a slice of the queue. Each time a post is submitted a hash of the IP is kept. Each hash has a numerical weight which gets incremented for each post marked, which translates into a green tint applied to the new posts page. Hashes with a negative weight get tinted red. Once a post has been marked it's removed from the queue. This way you can broadly ignore new posts that have a positive history.

If you can display 25 posts on a page in a grid, and the queue is 100 posts long, it only takes 4 clicks to mark them all which is the common case. You could do some fancy box select stuff to make it easier to mark multiple posts or whatever. Basically, you would partly automate moderation so you can cast an eye across everything with the least effort.


you realize they have a report function so the mods themselves don't have to read every post to find the bad ones, right?


95% of people never report anything, instead they just reply and derail threads


If I put 100 sheets of A4 full of text in front of you, and asked you to pick out the ones containing addresses you would be able to do it in a few seconds. You don't need to read the text to identify the shape of words. Similarly, if I put 100 photos in front of you and asked you to pick out the ones containing gore you would be able to do it nearly instantly. This is the extent of moderation I imagine.

If you view moderation as helping maintain a particular culture however, where the context of each post matters, then you have no recourse but to read and understand posts more closely which is a near-impossible task given the volume of text. At that point you have to rely on other metrics like "why is this thread getting bumped so much", or "why are these two people arguing", or report and feedback systems like you said.


This is a non-issue in the context of Wizchan. I have moderated a faster board and had no problem reading every post.


IP ranges for the biggest VPNS are catalogued, this will already negate the most griefers.

I'd like to avoid permabans for IPs, since one person in a household could ruin the ability to post for another positive person.

I'm considering a hard 2-5 minute limit between posts, with the ability to additiively edit (just add, not edit the old post) a post under a constrained character limit for quick fixes.


I don't want to ageistly discriminate, and I actually started posting chans at 12, though less on /b/ and more for books and manga. I say 25 as scholars and enthusiasts at that age have developed their fields of interests to the point they can notably move the frontiers those fields. The age format isn't like caste, it just sorts the kinds of conversations to be held. A French board sorted discussion into age, and people upheld those divisions, with accepted overlap between age groups.


This is an interesting idea, and elegant. Soft social credit. The weight should probably be only viewable mod side.

I love the anonymous user format and would prefer to keep it, but on more competitive boards for discussion, like a politically focused on, I might have to make regular hashes for unique IPs public.


Mod side word filters too. I don't think this is fully automatable without signicant errors yet, but flagging:

-low effort shitposts, or
-incomprehensible posts (but not words of foreign languages, though I'm not sure how to approach languages without standardized Latin script representation).

Are some ways to make things more manageable for mods.


The niche would be a journeyman chan. People who reflect on books, popular media, articles, the news. There isn't a suitable replacement for the prime hours of /his/ or /int/ anywhere, both of which aren't modded toward focused discussion. And there are less than a handful of chans with religion and philosophy boards where the tone is generally respectful. The niche is definitely there to be filled, and I think the reactionary response to Gamergate, and the broadness of the gaming industry, along with reactionary peers from major religious and ideological identities who can net respect each other, should be able to secure a decent mod and userbase. I unironically think selected reddit, discord and chans, would be decent places to advertise. I am sure there are loads of experienced people from each starved for meaningful conversation that feel stuck in an iron prison.


There is no replacement for a report function and manual moderation. It should be very easy for a site as small as wizchan - just give janitor rights to a few regular posters.

It is relevant to the thread for me to say that I have been unable to participate in meta for a long time because VPNs and proxies are banned form it.

Encouraging people to use their home IP is irresponsible behavior that indicates a corrupt moderation team. People write personal things when they think they are anonymous, and admins running the site will definitely be offered to sell and abuse that data. This is especially for a place like wizchan that is embarrassing, and has repeatedly been associated with illegal activity. It's almost certain that this is already happening with wizchan administration.


Most people on chans don't bother posting about illegal stuff though. People know governments, corporations, and site owners, are in cahoots. I don't think they care that much if say their photography of their region gets posted, or their analysis of an anime. More about them by far gets integrated into a google search profile.


Incentivizing reports, with tying emails (but not dynamic IPs) to report quantities that build points toward potential modship, and messages that offer feedback on successful modding done based on a report. With 4chan, it feels pointless more than half the time, since it can take hours to boot a dipshit from a good thread, if that even happens.


Many wizkids and even older wizards are out there who could be easily blackmailed. Just imagine getting a message that your mother will be sent your post history and told that you use a site for adult virgins unless you pay some BTC


That's true, but idiots cooming to CP hentai deserve it!


>Encouraging people to use their home IP is irresponsible behavior that indicates a corrupt moderation team
Except for that fact that 99% of shitposting and ban evasion comes from proxies. The recent mass use of proxies has been a huge blight on the internet because you are no longer able to remove rule breakers or enforce any kind of law on a website


That's not true. 4chan already blocked 20 VPNs I've tested on it, as well as all the proxies I've tried to use on it.


I have a question, how does one auto filter, or auto flag, copypasta/macro spam, without filtering similarly phrased good posts? I guess in this case it should just be left to human discretion, unless an advanced algorithm has been developed. For now, at most mod-visible flagging should be used.


After I wake up, it typically takes no more than ten minutes with the same basic access as everyone else to catch up on what I missed here. There's no way it would be more complicated with moderation powers. Banning proxies does absolutely nothing against someone dedicated and savvy enough to flood with their own networking hardware and software. That's what post-throttling is there for. Anyway, these are mostly hypothetical problems and are not good excuses to strip users of every possible protection.


>not good excuses to strip users of every possible protection.
Protection from what exactly? The mods? Hackerers from 4channel? Their parents? If someone is so afraid of their posts being intercepted by a third-party, they should consider if what they're posting is something that should be submitted in the first place. Any imageboard user who really cares about and understands "privacy" simply isn't on clearnet at all. VPNs keep just as much if not more logs than ISPs and both them and most Tor node operators are federally monitored - willingly, collaboratively so - for traffic relating to cybercrimes. Talking about killing your boss through a VPN just puts that info in the hands of the VPN on top of the ISP.

The internet was never meant to be "private" and so it wasn't engineered to be. No amount of tacked-on encryption or IP spoofing is going to protect anyone. Not criminals, not literally anyone who the feds want to check in on. Don't you think the people who are paying a licensed business, accessed from their static IPs, registered with their real SSN and photo ID to scramble their IPs is going to be the first under the magnifying glass?

I have a VPN subscription. I got it for 60% off and the first 3 months free by using code WIZJIZZ. If I wanted to I could hop on Dorito Chan, check what I was banned for with my static IP, then turn on my VPN to tell the mods to shove that ban up their ass about 40 times over the course of 10 minutes, killing half of a board. How? Because that chan allows VPNs. Oh they could throttle posts sitewide, but then I'd also win by inconveniencing their userbase. Turning on a captcha might slow me down, but then it would be enabled for even the obedient VPN users, and we all know how having a Google captcha completely destroys any paper walls of privacy the user has put up, so they'd be out of luck too. Everybody but my retarded ass and the Central Bureau of the NSA would lose.


>If someone is so afraid of their posts being intercepted by a third-party, they should consider if what they're posting is something that should be submitted in the first place.
I didn't expect Alain Badiou to post on wizchan of all places.


The mods. That's quite a lengthy extrapolation and reading a lot of what wasn't said. I certainly don't entertain illusions of anonymity and privacy in the context of government agencies, but wizchan moderators do not have the same capabilities. Post-throttling is always active here anyway, not even just flicked on during spam attacks, and I hardly believe the majority of "spam" has been truly disruptive (but hard to verify with no public logs, or at least so I've been told). The worst I have witnessed in recent memory is the guy posting the same video of the hapa on the designated shitposting board yesterday, which is to say isn't very bad at all. Again, these are all hypothetical problems in general practice. The volume to warrant any of these reactions doesn't exist. It just comes off as a weak excuse to profile users.


It's a massive joke that supposed anonymous imageboard today are less anonymous than mainstream sites that at least give you the option to let you post with proxies.

And moderation of the site and some users like in this thread defending it.


Imageboards are going to end up dying because or proxy retards. It's too easy to spam an imageboard to death with some $3 proxy service, you are creating your own demise. Other websites mitigate this kind of thing with account creation. In fast there's nothing stopping some scumbag from dropping 500 dollars on a bunch of residential IP addresses to burn and slide every single thread off of every single board on the site right now within probably an hour.


If that's true why is 4chan still browseable, when they're the most targeted board on the planet? What you say makes no sense.


Because they don't allow most proxies and vpns, have a capcha, and a large moderation team.


So just rangeban proxies and VPNs. Why are imageboards going to die when there's a simple workable check?


What's dorito chan? What VPN do you use?

What is the shitposting board? I know there's one that has a different color scheme.


> and I hardly believe the majority of "spam" has been truly disruptive
This entire website was deplatformed by illegal content posted by a cp robot which was for some insane reason also apparently making identical posts on a large number of other relatively unprotected small imageboards, including the female-exclusive imageboard. Most of the archive links and the entire textboard are still dead as a direct consequence.


Some words modify others, "majority" being one of those. There isn't a CP spam bot flooding this site every day/week/month/year.


Just talking about b.



>There isn't a CP spam bot flooding this site every day/week/month/year.
Ergo, truly disruptive spam is not the "majority." Feel free to rebut with an actual argument.


>There isn't a CP spam bot flooding this site every day/week/month/year.
According to our logging system, there is one that is trying. Most of it gets deflected by basic anti-spam measures. They're beginning to do tricky things to subvert these measures such as including text in the post body field, which can range from anything to the title of the site to posts others have made in the thread, which doesn't help us when denying correlation. It used to be that the bots used 3DCG or heavily watermarked images that hardly resembled CP, but all that I've seen in the past year have been full-size images which are likely indexed on PhotoDNA. I believe GrimChan was a small imageboard recently pulled in the same way ours was, and since then I've seen CP on another small board which was unattended for hours.

In regards to spam coming from proxies that isn't CP, there are occasionally waves of threads made by either disgruntled users or other chans/forums. If you've been on /meta/ a bit in the past two years you may have seen some of these spammers' posts because of our policy on not removing site criticism from there. I believe the worst one happened last May or June and it went beyond 150 threads over the course of 6 hours. All in response to a rule 5 warning I believe. Some of those who have spammed in the past are still posting here today with varying degrees of rule breaking, but there's really nothing we can do about it.


babies like >>284091 that saw too many nordvpn ads on youtube cry about a couple retarded losers being able to see their dynamic ip address here, there is no reasoning with them, they dont care about the website as long as they get to pretend to be anonymoose epic hacker behind 9000 proxies. To them spam doesn't exist because they don't see it, they make no correlation or reason to why they don't see it, it's just not there, so it doesn't happen, the website functions with no staff or at all, no mods ever stayed up to 5am in the morning just to defend the website, it never happened, everything is fine and proxies are based!


If it's the one I am thinking of, I very seldom see it post anywhere anymore. That's both on sites with similar software to wizchan and ones with totally different software. Granted, I can't read every imageboard simultaneously, but the volume (which was never high to begin with, from a user's view) has noticeably waned. A proxy blacklist is not going to stop sophisticated spam anyway. Do you realize how many possible IP addresses there are? I have cleaned up flooding from what appeared to be an entirely private series of VPS, multiple times. Much worse than this CP spam bot. These will not appear on your blacklist. If one point was not to degrade the user experience, blacklisting common proxies will do just that with no significant benefit.
Have you shed some of that pent-up angst now that you've gotten to insult and strawman me?


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It's so easy to by-pass Wizchan anti-spam.

It's quite funny how the moderator is pretending that Wizchan has some sort of sophisticated anti-spam measures.


keeping spending your slave money on jewvpn nigger


Okay /pol/chud


are you that dot spammer from abyss that spams youtube videos all day every day 24/7

If that's the case, then I say you have bigger problems to worry about. Like your mental helth probably


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You know there are multiple dot posters, right?


I dont think that lad ever quite recovered after he realized all the money he sent to kalen was being used for plastic surgery and not her moms cancer


its mr cryptobaby pretending he's a big boy


pissbaby is trying to identify users


sorry youre the only one always bragging about your nordvpn sub


what's the deal with these people seriously


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Matthew, we all know you're one of the most infamous wizchan cyber stalkers.

It's pretty obvious.


>Muh board muh trolls!!!
Pathetic. If anonymous imageboards are going to become less anonymous and less free than literal normie sites because muh trolls, then shut it down already because it has literally no reason to exist. Besides pretending you're 'bad' for posting here.

Many imageboards already greatly restricted that freedom and they're on their lowest point in quality too.


The "anonymous" in "anonymous imageboard" always referred to users' inability to connect posts between themselves, and never had anything to do with being equally as unmonitored by the staff. Specifically, user's individual rights not to connect their own posts are honored, with the ability to identify with a tripcode being optional. That layer of freedom of choice is the only "freedom" you'll get and ironically it's one that destroys anonymity.

"less free" my fat pimply ass. Free to do what? Spam memes and hard gay porn and pictures of anime succubi I like (please do this)? A site with no rules, regulations, or means to enforce them is by all means identical to any other site with the same lack of policies, so if anything they should all be shut down for being redundant and also a threat to anyone browsing who may be exposed to illegal or unholy content spammed by the truly "anonymous"


Internet poser libretards like you probably make accurate claims of cash earned on your income tax statements then come to small sites to complain


Never said anything about trolls, but people who literally want to decimate the website for a quick chuckle


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>people who literally want to decimate the website for a quick chuckle
Some wizzies just want to see the board burn


Moderation can still perform any actions on a proxy post as they could on a bareback one. Proxies are already very declawed here as-is, not being allowed to post on meta nor attach images. Another problem is if moderators happen to be immature and posting without the spirit of the format. That is, harassing users with old posts by bringing them up in completely unrelated conversations. If the moderation cannot respect the format when there is no disruption coming from the user, then all the more reason to allow proxies and deny such power-users this avenue for senseless abuse.



What are the other small imageboards?


>The "anonymous" in "anonymous imageboard" always referred to users' inability to connect posts between themselves,
Nice bullshitting right there. That's why proxies and massive range IP bans are a recent addition to almost every single imageboard? Take your bullshitting to where people have a fish memory, maybe it will work then. From the get go anonymous imageboards were sites with big freedom to post with no overmonitoring from the moderation. And that was most important than some faux sense of "anonymity" that is just a meaningless sticker on your post.

>Muh trolling

Stop projecting yourself. Nobody is asking for the site to have no rules. You're just pushing that narrative so you can pretend you have a point. Otherwise it would be too obvious that you just want imageboards to be another very controlled mainstream site with nothing but the anonymous sticker on it.


>Moderation can still perform any actions on a proxy post as they could on a bareback one
Except for the fact that performing any action to a proxy is pointless because the person will just change to another proxy, you logic is retarded
>bareback one
Why do you always have to use this gay sex slang word


>Moderation can still perform any actions on a proxy post as they could on a bareback one
Except for effective bans and warnings, which is the only problem that board owners have with VPNs and the whole point of this discussion. While a proxied IP can technically be banned, it won't be any hindrance to the rule breaker's further antics, in fact she might not even see the ban at all.

>harassing users with old posts by bringing them up in completely unrelated conversations

Is that what you believe is happening in the case of Wizchan or was that just a general example of what could happen in a worse case scenario? Because that belief dates back to old Wizardchan and was started as a joke about that place being made by /r9k/ mods trying to clean the permavirgins from their precious board and mocking them back on /r9k/. A few users here parrot it but it's unknown if it's done in parody. Whenever asked for even any contributing evidence, none is ever provided, not even anecdotes about coincidences. Half of the active Wizchan userbase is also active in off-site group chats such as the Discord and Steam Group. Namefags on these platforms will talk among themselves of their lives, and if anyone happens to make a similar post on Wizchan, their fellow chatters can connect to what was said and point it out. That's the only legitimate way I can see posts being connected with evidence and it's not something one would need to be a mod to do, nor is it something I see being done.

>That's why proxies and massive range IP bans are a recent addition to almost every single imageboard?
>recent addition
No, the ability to look up if an IP is owned by a VPN service is what's new. There has been just as much incentive in the distant pass to prevent VPN users from abusing their service as there is now. If it seems like board owners and staff are suddenly more active in banning VPNs, then it's only because there is a way to do so now, and the system that detects VPN IPs has opened up a lot of naive board operators' eyes to the fact that VPNs were the problem all along. We could even say that the reaction to VPNs has scaled proportionately to the amount of VPN users, which itself has skyrocketed due to very controlled mainstream influence. Go figure.

Tor exist nodes have long since been publicly listed. I recall 4chan banned them en masse back in 2013 when Tor was just becoming mainstream. Wasn't 8Chan founded by people who were upset with that policy? How did allowing all Tor and VPN users to post indiscriminately work out for them? There is still a way to bypass these bans however. A 4chan Pass
>4chan Pass users may bypass ISP, IP range, and country blocks, but are still subject to the same rules and restrictions as any other user. Pass users cannot bypass individual (regular) IP bans.
>IP range
>cannot bypass individual

It's $20. This is the price of freedom.

>And that was most important than some faux sense of "anonymity" that is just a meaningless sticker on your post.

Important for who though? Banned people and those willing to post something that will get them banned.
>Nobody is asking for the site to have no rules.
But you're advocating for rule breakers to be able to continue to break rules, invalidating those rules completely. Same result, different approach.
>muh muh muh muh muh muh


too long, didn't read


And they could still do that even if all common proxy services were banned, your logic is retarded. You aren't going to blanket-ban proxies. That's actually fucking impossible. "Bareback" is what I hear used. Get over it.
So banning proxies is futile, gotcha.
>How did allowing all Tor and VPN users to post indiscriminately work out for them?
The site was deplatformed for shooter manifestos and nothing more. This has nothing to do with proxies since the people responsible are very well known now. Whether or not they posted their manifestos from a proxy doesn't even matter.
>Important for who though? Banned people and those willing to post something that will get them banned.
>you're advocating for rule breakers to be able to continue to break rules
You keep deflecting to a seldom worst-case. The internet should just be banned because someone might eventually post something illegal, man. Oh, and we should pad all the walls, floors, furniture, tools, anything with a sharp edge, etc. in foam in case someone might get hurt. You aren't going to find a proactive solution that will prevent everything. All it takes is to be a bit more savvy than people whom pay for VPN services. Hell, it's not even hard to IP-hop without proxies (known or otherwise). Bans will always be symbolic and moderators will have to be diligent in removing content that violates rules or law.


>And they could still do that even if all common proxy services were banned
Do what? If proxies were banned they couldn't do that at all unless they paid for residentials which are expensive as hell


I am certain whatever proxy blacklist they have here isn't comprehensive. Furthermore, it's impossible to future-proof or to proof against personally-owned proxies.


>No, the ability to look up if an IP is owned by a VPN service is what's new.
If it was technology or a change in attitude of the moderation in imageboards doesn't matter. Either way is the same: these types of aggressive, massive bans weren't so frequent in the past. So, again, take your bullshitting elsewhere.

>Wasn't 8Chan founded by people who were upset with that policy?

Which proves that such things were looked with disgust.
>How did allowing all Tor and VPN users to post indiscriminately work out for them?
If moderators, jannies and admins don't want to provide an actual anonymous imageboard because they're too lazy to look for a solution then say it. There's no problem. You put your massive gigabans and that's all. But stop bullshitting. Stop telling people that this is the "same as always", or that these are the same imageboards of years ago. Instead of what really is: another type of controlled social media.
>buy 4chan pass
Yeah, supporting a site that doesn't even care about you is stupid and pathetic.

>Important for who though? Banned people and those willing to post something that will get them banned.

Oh, you're so smart. Since bad people can do bad things, we should give all our privacy and freedom to you, who never never would do something bad. So you can babysit us. You hear that guys? This guy is going to save us, just like in social media. I clap in tears right now in front of the screen, you have opened my eyes finally.


I love how people talk about sites being banned for CP and shooter manifestors in the same breath as saying it's ok to let users use their home IP on such a taboo site


File: 1644518470017.png (339.7 KB, 499x583, 499:583, 87f.png) ImgOps iqdb

Just give us your home IP, goy. You have nothing to fear.

We promise.


>give all our privacy and freedom to you,
This is the root of your delusions. The internet was never meant to be free and private. None of that was ever promised, offered, or even hinted at as possible by the ISPs whose service you pay for. Whenever you connect to the internet willingly, you are signing off your privacy and agreeing to abide by its rules.

Now you can try to sneak around and obfuscate your outgoing and incoming signals by running them through either your own special hardware - also connected to these ISPs likely with your dox on file - or through paying to use someone else's hardware, who also keeps your info on file. You may be able to make it hard for neckbeard jannies to see your ban history on their basket weaving forum, but you'll never escape the gaze of big brother nor the limitations they impose on your traffic in the name of public safety.

No rights of yours are being stripped, no freedoms suppressed. If you believe you have a right to be so free to do as you please, then the staff of the private sites you use also have their own freedom to enforce their own rules. Don't like it, don't use it. You can suggest changes all you want, but don't expect people not to laugh as soon as you start whining about rights you never had being stripped. You've yet to even define what these 'freedoms" of yours are. Please explain what you should to be "free" to do on private forums.


I trust my ISP more than I trust you.
>Don't like it, don't use it.
Keep acting on this attitude and you're going to kill this site.


Sorry but I don't understand in what world a 6 month ban is a suitable punishment for CP. That should be an instant permaban.
Other than that I'd like to add that, as a VPN user, I like the current rule where I can freely post text but I'm not allowed to post images while using a VPN. It makes sense and doesn't infringe on my ability to discuss with users, whilst also respecting my decision to use a VPN.


True permabans are not good on sites that allow Tor or other proxy services (it might not matter much here or for the hypothetical board in question). Eventually someone different will use the same IPs.


The only one who is delusional here is you. Jannies are not the government, nor the Internet provider, nor some sort of entity of good doing righteous work. Not because these people over there strip you of your freedom or privacy means that jannies are, magically entitled to doing the same without people calling them out.

>Wwell, don't use it then!

Lol, you should have started here and just stop pretending. But you're mistaken, like it was posted before, if admins and jannies want to put their massive gigabans, they can do it freely. In any imageboard, not just this one. There is no problem with that. Again, just don't expect people to don't call bullshit when they see it. Just like now.

>Keep acting on this attitude and you're going to kill this site.
Is already a lost battle. Most imageboards have this pathetic mentality. Maybe they really believe that people are not going to leave just because.


You've still yet to define what these "freedoms" of yours are. If you're so passionate about having them, at least try to describe them.


you implement account registration and hidden usernames. to everyday users they are still anonymous to each other however

when a new post is made by anyone:
-users can vote for or against new posts
-a member of the staff makes the final say on a post
-users who voted the same way as staff gain +1 reputation
-users who voted against what staff decided lose 1 reputation
-if staff doesn't do anything regarding the post within 30 days it is regarded as OK, and every user who voted it as OK gain reputation

reputation is visible only to staff

there must be a minumum post:reputation ratio to gain more reputation (ie. you cannot have a bot that simply votes OK on everything to farm reputation. it must make posts as well, which potentially exposes it)

post must be surpass a minimum character count in order to count toward the post:reputation ratio

after a certain reputation (for example 100) users become trusted which gives them magic powers

magic users can use spells like
-muting individual posts by other users
-muting the image posted by another user
-muting other users

these mutes are temporary and can be reversed by the highest reputation users and/or staff

magic users with the highest reputation can do stuff like
-lock down the entire site temporarily
-block all newly registered users from being able to do anything temporarily
-block all users below a certain reputation from doing anything temporarily

when a member of staff affirms an action taken by a reputation user (muting, blocking, etc), that user gains experience. if their actions is rejected, they lose experience and reputation

when it comes time to find new staff members, user experience is used to gauge their ability to moderate

if a member of staff doesn't logon within x days, they are listed as inactive and demoted and the highest experienced reputation user is promote to staff

staff have all the typical moderation powers

this is my idea for an imageboard that could moderate itself and could survive even the death of its rulers. as long as 1 member of staff is active to affirm votes/actions by other users, they can gain reputation and new members of staff will be assigned

the handle stuff like server hosting, implement a payment system which will let users buy cosmetic posts, like borders and glowing effects and scrolling text and temporary site-wide word filters. the proceeds from all of this feed into an account which pays for the server hosting so anyone can technically prevent the site from expiring even if the admin died, they just have to buy stuff which will tp up the account


sounds gay as fuck


unconstructive criticism


> Jannies are not the government, nor the Internet provider, nor some sort of entity of good doing righteous work.
No, of course not. They're privately entrusted entities operating on private property. You want some private property of your own, pay for it. You want to stand on public property, then the first step is to get off of other people's doors. You think when private property gets too big it needs to be turned into a public utility, then hold up a damn cardboard sign when you're out in public.


lmao what are you on about? No one ITT has advocated for wizchan to be seized by the government.


So reddit.
Hard no from me.


It's not about upholding free speech, but what westerners expect out of imageboards. Who knows; probably few will stop using the site from heavier moderation and eroded user-sanctity, but "muh private ownership" isn't exactly a compelling argument considering many people using imageboards now are doing so because media moguls have always been worse. I still don't get why anyone should advocate that any layer that the user can utilize to protect themselves should be dissolved.


>what westerners expect
The same westerners whose expectations were built by clips of exploding vans in news segments, which expectations also include the idea that 4chan is part of the darkweb and/or in any meaningful way darker, edgier or more violent than reddit?


Sounds like a flimsy strawman. To elaborate, you're using a mainstream portrayal of everything. Should I have used more specific terminology? I don't think so personally, but maybe so you couldn't try including the millions of dumbasses that have never accessed this site or any others remotely similar to it.


Because the IP could be shared by different people, or rotated to new people who gained the IP. Known nondomestic and publically accessible IPs are more selectable for permabans.


Wonderful post. I love the attention to structure and detail. I'll have to make considerations on how effective and seamless the concepts are in relation to themselves and loopholers. Overall it sounds good anon.

I have another idea, in a worst case situation, the entire site goes into hard lockdown, with the only new IPs allowed being from an approved proxy service(s). This way chud sperging gives the IB finances in an agreed upon revenue with an alliance with the proxy service(s). Regulars with high rep can use their hidden account information from the above anon's concept (or a similar concept that rewards goodposts more generally) to bypass the lockdown from their regular IP. This means that the main contributors and goodposters can continue with barely a hitch, and if chud wants to shitpost, he has to give the IB money, with his shitposts and new IP removed promptly, with the lockdown ending using data on the shortest psychological statistics showing when these people give up raiding.

The hidden account info can also be used, given enough rep, to register a personal proxy, or their new IP, which can bypass a lockdown. Rep given will have to be from legitimate goodposting logged and identifiable by the mod team.


Shortest duration based on*


Rep can be based on posts that reflect poster psychology with qualities like virtue, ability to get along (even in pronounced disagreement), competitive and aggressive posting that is still able to meet opposition halfway and that still has a legit point, ability to make useful posts, low rep rewards for behavior that makes shitposts or ventingposts in designated containment areas, and high rep rewards for insightful posts that reflect deep reading, learning, and thinking. Among other types.


Worst case situation would be like when a shitposter(s) is shitposting a (coordinated) shithurricane, making regular modship ineffective, or when a mod skeleton crew cannot keep up with high frequency shitposting.

I think soft jannies should be limited to soft mutes like spoilering illicit images, or soft muting messages, meaning users can still open and close them if desired. Harder methods should be left to mods and jans.


I just realized a major flaw with this. Any nonregistered goodposter can still register under lockdown, if they use a regular IP where they've left a consistent trace of goodposts that sum to a sufficient rep.


Good post. I like the way you write, too. The cosmetic shop with funds automatically paying for hosting is a neat idea too; the cosmetics you mentioned remind me of old chatrooms like XAT.

One potential flaw I noticed is how somebody who is dedicated enough to trolling could work their way up the ranks and become a moderator. Once someone is a janny, how can they be demoted/replaced other than being inactive? You could end up with the site being moderated by trolls.


Quite possibly the best post I've read on wizchan in ages. This should definitely be implemented.


heh, remember wizbux?



then go make that somewhere else. this is wizCHAN and that has nothing to do with chan culture.


Scary how wizchan users don't mind having all their posts archived, an identifying profile built for them and tracking cookies just recently put in place.

Yes, the admin is "working" on the site. Do you really think some Israeli intelligence agency wouldn't fork up a few hundred bucks to buy an obscure chan?

The admins and moderators have the seem to not care about privacy at all then try to gaslight the userbase into thinking that's totally normal and not at all intrusive or dangerous.

Remember, ALL the posts you've ever made on this site have been archived, meaning they can go back 8 years of your posting history.

Just by this fact alone, they could tie together all the stupid shit you've said, forward it to the police, then you could probably be arrested.

It doesn't really matter if you said it 8 years ago. What matters is you said it. That will forever be tied to you.

Now, the staff will pretend that it doesn't matter or that wizchan would be ruined if they didn't "archive everything you've ever said for the last 10 years", but we all know that's bullshit.

They don't care about your privacy, "the right to be forgotten" laws in the EU or your safety. It's actually very telling.

That's why I don't come to this site unless I'm behind 7 proxies.


Why would anyone care? The so called wizards here would kill themselves by 50 anyway


> tracking cookies just recently put in place.
It’s been like 5 years and you’re still upset that wizchan leaves a cookie in your browser to store settings, get over it or turn cookies off


it's really not that different from mods/janitors. even the implementation of anonymous usernames, since wizchan has posting histories basd on ip and the mods here have private usernames. you can boil it down to an automated system for giving janitor powers and promoting janitors to mods based on a reputation/experience system that lets regular posters and power users 'defend' their boards against invaders, bots, and mod and admin inactivity

i have no desire to code for web and server shit, i dont like databases and javascript and i dont know php


I thought of another potential semi proactive mod policy. Posters too pussy to be bannable, but constantly tread the line of poor shitposting, are forced to namefag/hashfag so they're at least filterable. At least unless they can make their (hodden, lest we truly betray the spirit of anon posting) social credit goes up.


>Name and shame people the mods personally don't like even if they don't actually break the rules
I'm sure such a thing couldn't be abused or misused.


All societies are ran by gatekeepers. Ordinary ban systems aren't free of abuse either.


Good luck I'm behind 7 proxies.


Still seems like a bad idea without a upside from the perspective of a user.


The upside is they can still post, but now people can filter their tag. It's still more ethical than a shadowban, or full ban.


It is just a way for mods to pick on someone in particular who isn't breaking rules.

Ether go full namefag, have post id per a thread, or don't have namefagging at all
If you open the door to subjective enforcement of non-rules it will be exclusively abused.


Algebra or other difficult filtering captchas for anons flagged as low quality.


Truly low effort regulars who aren't bad enough for a ban should be post rate limited by IP, or have the IP be given a more permanently identifiable tag to make them more filterable.

Good generals and threads should be given special status and protected from crawl, slide, and low quality parasitic bleeding. Maybe strong quality accounts should be able to have them voted into status with a target number by other anons. This would be better than jannies constantly attending. This status should be a tier below mod pinned posts.


Additionally, the max number of threads per day per IP should be tied to PPH. Higher PPH, higher thread max. Very high PPH allows high threads per hour.

This prevents malicious slide spam.


>what is dynamic ip
Wouldn't work.

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