/lounge/ - Lounge

>>289567
If it was a completely honest post, then why did you have to start the post suspiciously trying to advertise for that?

It's completely dependent on your commitment to it. It can offer you an entire life foundation if you take it seriously enough.
>Why do people irl get into shit they don't understand and defend it to their core?
They do understand it completely. Religions usually offer a very accessible picture of how the universe works and it also comes with a set of rules for you to organize your ethics and day to day life.

People shit on religion today but they usually forget religion was the best form peoples of the past found to organize their societies and make it into a cohesive and functional body. Civilization could not happen without it. I don't believe in any religion but if you study history you'll understand why it exists and why it persists even today. That happens mostly because people will focus on the mythological parts of the religion that is open to ridicule to non-believers, but they usually miss the strong points of religion, like it's organizational and unifying force.

Also, secular societies is a very new thing, it's not clear yet if they're actually better in terms longevity. It might break apart way before the religious society of the past. I can easily see a very religious society that embraces technology as more cohesive and with better longevity and smoother interpersonal foundation than the secular societies we have in the West today. Unfortunately we have a very short life span, so we can't actually follow cultural developments for longs periods of time as it happens. If you look at the world today it seems obvious that mostly secular societies are better since the religious ones tend to be worse economically and technologically. But that phenomenon is also recent. All great world empires were very religious.

It's also possible many aspects of our lives will be seen as very religious in a 1000 years since the concept itself shifts as time goes on, but that's for people in the future to read about.

>>289568
Fear is a tool. Societies can use it in both religious and secular contexts. There's nothing ill about how religions use fear, in fact religious bodies use it quite well. Medieval kindgoms made their first global stretches as future empires thanks to the religious zeal of its soldiers. You have to look past the mythological aspect of religion, otherwise you'll missing all the parts that actually matter in terms of sociology and history.

>>289580
Because I'm surprised at how many kike worshipping agent posts I'm finding in ib's lately. And I'm sure those guys are gaining 'something', at least psychologically, by worshipping dead carpenters. If the gain is good, I'll take it, just doesn't seem to be the case, probably won't ever be.

>>289581
Nah, they do not. They don't know the origin of what they worship or a motive that doesn't involve stealth coercion. Only a half assed cognitive dissonance of what's in their KJV ™️. I ask again, where's the gain

>>289581
Oh, there's the answer, power-related social dynamics. I'll pass, not too interested in the priestly power of diddling children

>>289585
I just explained to you where's the gain. This guy >>289586 gets it, but you can look at the bigger picture, too. For example, I think secular societies today are going through a process of throwing the baby out with the bath water when it comes to religion. You have a lot of values being completely derided and the reason is probably a spillover of criticism of religion. Like how heritage and the importance of the family unit to society in general is under constant attack now. I can't even image that happening in a religious society. Myths can be used to protect important things, too. Like I said, the longevity of our secular societies are still to be tested, it might be a failed experiment. Let's wait. We can pick this conversation again in 400 years and see how it went. I'm sure there'll be lots of interesting things to catch up on.

But if you want a clear gain of recent history;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Kabul_(2021)
An example on how religious zeal can make a group of people in old pickup trucks and soviet era assault rifles defeat the biggest empire in the world. That was last year.

>>289595
I was the same wiz, just did a triple post.

>Baby out with the bathwater, family unit
Yes, mostly cause it's a form of virtuous (at least) tribalism that ends up being discarded for absolute subjectivism and emotion-based ethic that has no (A)bsolute ground. Everything begins to get messy.

About the family unit, I think I'm not really able to conceive 'truly' religious families. Boomers were raised with influence by the beat generation and I think that could have been a core corruption.

>Fall of Kabul, Islam
Exactly. In Islam any given member is always a means to something else. They're well aware of it and proud of it, and there's no nationalistic or patriotic causes that can match religious zeal. Sadly I'm pretty sure that if they used reason they'd realize Islam won't offer much to them even in material terms.
At the point they're at, they don't care much about reason though.

Obviously, religions are used or were used for very earthly and political purposes. However, true spiritualism is beyond politics and ethics and herd-oriented thinking.

Secular and religious societies aren't opposed to each other, they are the two sides of the same coin. Secular societies take all their values from traditional societies, in this sense we haven't had a modernist society yet. Look at for example Russia pre-revolution and post-revolution, most of their values remained the same, only the symbols changed and the ruling caste. Basically, in a communist "secular" society and in a hardcore religious traditional society life was the same mostly. Instead of looking at things in "religious vs secular" false view, we should look at it like this "esoteric modernist vs traditional (religious/secular)".
Esoteric, spiritualist society would be the true modern society. The closest we had to this in the West was Nazi Germany and sadly they screwed it up by placing the emphasis on traditional values like blood, race, Fatherland, etc. If it didn't have these faults stemming from sheep mentality Nazi Germany could have been a very creative and spiritualist country which could have influenced Western thought and led the West into a new golden age. Alas, Nazi Germany had some good ideas in adopting Asian and pagan esoteric concepts but ultimately it was built on Christian Crusader values. Still traditional values, but the more violent traditional values instead of the humanism of the so called progressive societies.

The time for a truly modern and esoteric society in the West has yet to come. Because make no mistake, modernism and progress is only possible through spiritualism and occultism, these things are needed nowadays in the West to stimulate the old culture's blood. Our culture is very tired and in need of something new, that would give it back its will to power and will to fight.

>>289600
>>289595
We don't need to conserve and preserve traditional values at all, in fact we should need new values entirely. Throw traditional and moral values into the trash bin where they belong and aim for new heights and new depths. Both secular and religious societies were concerned with raising Good, Virtous, Useful, Moral citizens. This has been the backbone of every society we had. While we should have created a more ruthless, cruel, power-hungry, amoral and creative generation that isn't afraid of walking all over values, whether they are #metoo and #blacklivesmatter secular "progressive" values or the "God, Nation, Family" religious conservative package.

Before religion:
Ignorant agnostic

After religion:
Gnostic agnostic

I worship the Arrow of Time, Fifth Force, primordial Chaos, Entropy.
It's omnipresent and omnipotent, blind, uncaring, the true God of humanity. I know it's futile but it still gives me comfort.

>>289607
In what sense worshipping entropy gives you comfort? That's curious.

>>289609
Not him, because it's likely the only known way we can actually see nature "acting" as a higher force. I don't see Jesus of Nazareth or Odin doing shit. Formless gods tend to be more believable

>>289607
The desire to worship something always leads one down the wrong path. Insteading of worshipping forces or gods or entities that don't care about you it would be better to learn to use other beings for your own gains, no? I mean supernatural beings. Like angels, demons, spirits, that sort of stuff.

>>289610
>Jesus
Well, according to their faith, everything moves thanks to God. Abrahamic religions suppose that God is an active participant in our lives. So everything good is thanks to him, everything bad is because of original sin/humanity/demons etc.
>Odin
Paganism is always about Nature Worship and so Odin was what, the god of death and wisdom if I remember right? So he is death and since death exists he is doing shit.

>Formless gods tend to be more believable
You think? I don't know, I think humans are more likely to follow a god that is similar to them in some way or another. This is exactly why God The Father or the gnostic God is hard to grasp for people, because they are unlike us so much. While Zeus for example could be understood much better because he was much more human.

>>289630
I worship it out of fear and respect. I recognize it as the supreme entity.