Destruction is fun, bro. Destruction paves the way for new creations. Right-wingers are no fun. You are enslaved by your own property, capital or creations. You wouldn't know what it's like to live a healthy life even if it came right across you in the street.
Why dont the democrats ever do anything truly useful like guaranteed housing for the homeless/easier neetbux?
even in socdem europe, the concept of giving neets cash for nothing is rather unpopular with the population, has lost every vote on it
Probably because they aren't actually leftists, only bourgeoisie liberals. They know that you can only liberate the people if you grant them economic equality but of course they don't want that. Why? Because they have nothing to do with leftism. Like all liberals, they hate liberty and anything associated with freedom.
In merica they are playing this sick and twisted back and forth, the republicans and the dems I mean. Both are tools of the capitalist elite to pacify the masses, just in different ways. But even aside from the US, you shouldn't put your trust into political parties or politicians. As Bakunin noted accurately, if you want true freedom and equality then you shouldn't play the tyrants' mind games. "Elections" are part of the plot too and can never be trusted. Even the most liberal state is still a state, controlled by an elite who are bent on self-preservation at all cost above everything. For this end they are ready to use violence (police, military, locking you up in psychiatry, etc) or covert techniques such as lying and manipulating the people. DON'T TRUST politicians.
>>300460>You wouldn't know what it's like to live a healthy life even if it came right across you in the street.
Excellent, we're one reply in to this thread and the leftist has already devolved to using a "You're unhealthy" insult instead of providing any arguments. That's college lefty tactic one "Lol no one would date you nazi crab"[/o]
>That left-leaning party isn't a REAL lefty party
If a party or individual rejects the idea of a nation's borders being valid, and supports the government doing things in the best interest of those born within those borders, then they or she is a leftist like any other.
That's college lefty tactic two. When a counterargument comes up on why their idea logy is flaed, they claim that they're not actually that ideology and push the blame to the opposition for not understanding the difference
>Noo I'm not a "Left winger" like those bafoons, I'm a left-leaning anarcho-bolshivest lenin-light
52 genders hysteria. All leftists are leftists. Your weird IDPOL spetrum you so desperately rely on to individualize yourself from the other factory-farmed lefty college grads, just doesn't exist.
AOC's platform actually explicitly included "those unable or UNWILLING to work" for bux, and the usual sources, freaked out about it.
If even NEETs care more about pronouns than having bux put in your hands, its all rather hopeless.
I care more about having a society that works than filling my pocket with bux. A wizard doesn't have to be an anti-social psychopath that would force everyone to cater to his desires.
There has been a very unusual amount of new and active posters over the last week and there are repeating signals being sent through various new threads.
We are most likely being raided and anyone whos been here long enough will notice that this is not an organic development. Please be cautious.
Seconding this. The activity from the past week has been very strange. Has there been some news article that dropped, a Youtube video made, or have a bunch of journalists slept with another succubus or something recently?
the pol/leftypol raid never ended, sage and hide.
Right-wingers are objectively sick and twisted individuals. They get a kick out of bullying people less fortunate than them and actively enforce a system that is based on the suffering of others.
What can I say, though, dems really aren't leftists? I won't call them leftists when they aren't that at all. They are culturally liberal capitalists, while republicans are culturally conservative capitalists. Continue to get worked up over this monkey farce, oh which brand of exploiters will win this year and will trannies be allowed to use a separate bathroom or no? Because you know, it's not like these are just shit non-existent issues that are devised to occupy your attention so that you won't think about the actual problems…While reps and dems are killing each other over stupid shit like that Biden and Trump are laughing their asses off enjoy their luxury of wealth and capital. Good slave.
>If a party or individual rejects the idea of a nation's borders being valid
You fail right there because the USA is one of the hardest countries in the world to get into. You have borders you fucking moron, try walking into Mexico and see what happens.>>300469
A society "that works" has been tried numerous times before and it usually ends up with us NEETs facing the wall and getting lead into our heads. Or just simply getting locked up.
Fuck a society that works and a strong country, all that retarded rightoid lies. It doesn't mean shit if you don't get to enjoy it yourself. Don't be a cuck.
Trump is being indicted and will spend time in prison if they don't let him out and get him to run third party to split the republican vote.
They are lynching him because– guess what– your overly simplistic, incredibly childish view of society that "those evil meanies with money are ruining everything and if we could just stop those meanies >:( then we would be so happy and everyone would hug and kiss and there would be ponies and love and happies! :D" is blatantly wrong. You need to develop your political complexity some.
>>300483>Trump is being indicted
The DA just threw out the case because the claimant was found to have selectively witheld hundreds of pages of evidence that proved Trump to be not at fault, and so now the claimant's assets are frozen and they're being investigated for fraud.
Nothing will ever happen to Trump and everyone with a working brain knows this. He is part of the elite, not some cool rebel you people would like to believe. It's all a show exactly to entertain monkey people like you.
You see I'm a realist, I just don't like being a cuck, which is more than I can say for your kind. The world would be a better place yeah if we killed all the rich people and split their money between us. Or do you think it's all fine and dandy that 0.0001% controls most of the world's resources while masses are hungry and don't even have proper water to drink? Plot twist for retards like you I guess but rich people aren't your friends and the class war is very real.
I agree that being an anarchist is the best suited for us. Anything related to states or hierarchies is bound to end up as normalfag-core. I also agree with that we belong to the lumpenproletariat and it's better to accept this as soon as possible.
Fascism is for failed normals who want to belong somewhere and would gladly trade their freedom and independence for some nice uniform. It's the essential normalfag philosophy next to capitalism and anything related to hierarchies and competition.
I like trump as a clown like figure who makes the elites mad. But other than that he is completely useless.
He will most likely win the primary cause the rest of the GOP are a bunch of basic bitch neocons and jebs. But then he will go on to lose to biden because it isnt 2016 anymore, he isnt an outsider, he had 4 years and he wasted them. He has alienated the white male vote, the female vote, and the normie and indpent vote. The only people he has left are the most brainwashed of cultists
>>300486>Nothing will ever happen to Trump and everyone with a working brain knows this. He is part of the elite, not some cool rebel you people would like to believe. It's all a show exactly to entertain monkey people like you.
Not a rebel; he's an idiot that forgot he wasn't an epic movie hero that could change history. He bit the bourgeois neo-marxist hand that keeps the system running and he's going to get assraped.
You have a teenager's view of politics. You aren't a realist, you watched too many youtube videos and now your brain is soft and smooth.
Nothing ever happens to him because he doesn't do anything wrong.
>I'm REALISTIC, you're CUCKED
Why do you communists see everyone through the eyes of your cuckoldry fetish>Or do you think it's all fine and dandy that 0.0001% controls most of the world's resources while
I don't. No right-winger does. But if we tell you who those 0.0001% of the population are, we get deplatformed for Anti-Semitism and Islamophobia.
Unironically, Trumpian retards are more awakened on the class war than marxists today. Nowadays leftist marxists are jizzing themselves over uniting the proles by forced gender transitions on children and importing 200,000,000 immigrants, while Trumptards are unironically storming a building full of 1%ers, getting arrested for attempting to assassinate billionaires, and throwing firebombs at multi-billion dollar corporations.
Today leftist = brainrot idpol masquerading as class warfar
Today rightist = Proletarian revolutionary masquerading as brainrot idpol
>>300493>they practice white nationalism
Can you explain what you believe is wrong with that?
also studies have shown that the people who voted for trump are disgusting kulaks or "small business owners" type. they arent working class
Is Jeiwsh Nationalism in israeli just IDPol?
Is Islamic Nationalism in the Middle East just IDPol?
South Africans making it illegal for White and Chinese to own weapons, and then sending hired guns to kill them… Is that just IDPol?
Your vagueness speaks volumes about the reach of your knowledge. If "its idpol" is all you can provide for an argument, then it's clear that you're not even passionate about justifying your worldview, even in the thread about it. Or maybe you're so hopped-up on buzzwords that you think "its idpol" carries any significant argumentive weight, like a nuclear bomb of facts and logic contained within a phrase that you can't even begin to define for yourself.
Either way, you (and OP??) are faggots.
No, but I'm guessing BLM riots are le heckin' necessary for proletarian unity!>Our idpol = unity>Their idpol = chaos
>>300498>Is Jeiwsh Nationalism in israeli just IDPol?
Is Islamic Nationalism in the Middle East just IDPol?
Idpol or as the soviets called it "bourgeoise nationalism" divides people of the same material conditions rather than unite them.
White nationalism is idpol, any form of nationalism really.
I've never much agreed with most of the bullshit I see from alt-righters, I was educated with a different set of values. I was shocked to learn that some of these values are "left" values, I thought it was just basic human decency.
All the stuff that gets thrown around in the web has got me thinking and reevaluating much of what I was taught, ideas like "equality" and the like. I realize much of this is just a historical accident that has made them possible.
Both a deep distrust of anything that can be labeled "left" and, perhaps, growing up has made me a bit more traditionalist, in a sense, yet I am far from being on the side of christianity or capitalism. I also have strong feelings against communism.
But the point is. I know nearly nothing, just a few things that I've gathered here and there. They never tell you the whole story, how could they? Things are far too complex to understand just like that. On top of it all, humans are not exactly rational creatures, which makes any of these theories that use "reason" as a basis, or that assume that any group of people could ever behave rationally, nothing but a foolish delusion.
No, I don't fit in either the left, the right, or the center. I wouldn't know where to, or if it makes any sense picking sides. It's moreover absolutely retarded to have to pick a side, when the dimensions of being human seem to be infinite. Both sides seem to have the same retarded goals, in the end, only stated in terms of one group or the other, like a war between secret societies, which it really seems to be. Funny these secret societies have a frontend as political parties, so they're just…. sort of secret?
Politics is absolutely pleb tier (heh) garbage. It's the absolute lowest kind of interest you can have as a person. And to see there are people who develop their whole identities around this and become ideologues, that's just hilarious. Wizchan was supposed to be about people who don't care about society, now we have people who care so m h that they become "leftists", lmao, and to believe the stuff that they believe in.
I was for a while drawn towards anarchism. Sounds very nice, on paper. And so does capitalism, and so does socialism. Until it gets tried. And then what? You have to defend the pure theory of your ideology against all evidence, it seems.
The first thing you need to realize is that "right-wing" does not in any way imply capitalist or individualist. Capitalism is leftist- albeit not as far left as communism.
A better description of the left-right divide is that of Subjectivism-Relativism-Materialism on the left, and on the right Objectivism-Absolutism-Moralism(Humanism).
Leftists are more likely to justify morality with mental gymnastics, or perhaps they'll appeal to "muh greatest possible happiness" or on the capitalist side of leftism, "economic efficiency/benefits."
Rightists will typically describe something as intrinsically good or evil, usually vested by some supernatural power, and will look for material reasons to support/oppose it after already establishing whether it's morally good or evil.
Just want say OP, that I don't think you're a bad person or even stupid for being a leftist. A lot of leftists have very good critiques of society, and they're trying to do the best, but because of college and academic peopaganda, and because they're too afraid to truly alienate themselves from society, they come upon solutions and visions that are delusional.
A lot of arguably smart people like Vaush end up defending honestly ludicrous ideas (that, no matter how intelligent they are, there is no reasonable way to give an intellectually honest defense for) because they are absolutely brainwashed by the liberal democratic system. You could very well be one of those intelligent people stuck in the Conservative-Capitalism/Progressive-Communism false dichotomy that is pushed by the media to entrap the people and prevent them from realizing better solutions.
My leftism is only really as far as rightoids constantly try to reduce and make neetbux and neet existence harder>>300461
Not American but aren't democrats there basically conservative-lite compared to the rest of the first world because there are just so many rednecks there that they have to please?
All mainstream democratic candidates approved of sex reassignment surgery for minors. All of the mainstream democratic candidates supported taxation of whites for reparations payments to minorities.
They're actually far more progressive than European leftists. I used to think otherwise, but since 2016 they've gone apeshit.
Thays why political systems like in Switzerland are great since you can vote for better autismbux policies while voting against retard immigrants at the same time. That way you can just pick the policies you like instead of being forced to suck up to one direction of things.
That's a mlre interesting, more epistemological take on the issue. I still wouldn't know where to stand within it, but it's good material to ponder.
The only beef that I have with the left is their anti science position, they deny anything that don't support their view or politics, like denying 50 years of behavioral genetics just because doesn't like the fact the gene play a role on people's behavior, like nigga, why you accept the science and try to a way to help people based on the science? Like some people are born with shitty gene and others with good genes, the question should be: how to be correct this genetic inequality?
He isn't an idiot at all, he knows perfectly well what he is doing and what the mass of retards need to hear. If anything, the idiots are the people who voted for him and supported him.>neomarxist
You mean liberal, I take it. It's all right, many people who shit on marxism has absolutely no idea what it is about at all and just parrot things they heard from right-winger ideologues. And funny you'd call me a teen when you fell for the mainstream politics divide.>>300490
Nothing ever happens to him because he belongs to another caste than you or me, wizzie. He has lived his whole life among the elite and he is part of the establishment whether you like it or not. Probably plays poker on Friday nights with Hunter Biden, discussing how the majority of people are utter retards who just love being led by the nose.
About the cuck-fetish, that meme really was spread your kind around in the first place. Nobody talks as much about race-mixing and trannies as you people do.
Oh, the jewish boogeyman, yeah. So you mean Trump is a jew too? And Elon Musk? What about them? Or they don't count because they are on "your side"?>>300491
Yeah, they are storming the 1%ers on the orders of someone who himself belongs to the 1%…Trumptards really are so free-thinking, oh wow. Maybe it's all part of a plan…nah, couldn't be.>>300494
Aside from the fact that it's a drug to calm down the proletariat of your own race from revolting? According to nationalism, I should like a rich man of my own nation better than a poor man from another country. Why, again? The distance between the rich guy who belongs to my nation and me is bigger than in the other case.>>300502
You could have written a single sentence about how you are a smug faggot for not having any thoughts on your own and be done with it, ya know? Some politics benefit certain groups of people better than others. You belong to a group too based on your circumstances. So if you are a NEET like me for example you benefit from leftist politics immensely. Staying "le epic neutral objective guy" or supporting something that is contrary to your best interests is pathetic. I hope you will retain your smugness when you get sent to your local concentration camp too.>>300506>Capitalism is leftist
No, it isn't. Capitalism is right-wing as fuck. Individualism is a broad subject but economic individualism is always tied to right-wing shit. You can't change definitions because you don't like them.
I agree with the description you provided more or less, except for this. Humanism is tied to leftism and humanism appeared as a rebellion against the conservative way of thinking related to Christianity that was prevalent until the 15th century when humanism became a thing.>Leftists are more likely to justify morality with mental gymnastics
Also disagree with this, it's classic right-winger attitude to only preach about morality and goodness and then doing entirely contrary things. That's why rightoids like religions so much. They need something to ease their inner guilt for being assholes in every day life.>>300507
I never went to college and dislike anything related to them. I'm very critical of academic circles and their circlejerks. I also don't believe in the mainstream right vs left party politics as I already mentioned itt.>>300512
Obsessing over genes is characteristic of nazi eugenism. We see where that led. Generally speaking science is just another kind of brainwashing the system uses to plant memes in your head. Be critical of mainstream science.
I'm not going to address the rest of the post because it would be pointless. If another wiz wants a blow by blow on a specific part of your post, they can request it. What I am going to do is respond to this:>I never went to college and dislike anything related to them. I'm very critical of academic circles and their circlejerks. I also don't believe in the mainstream right vs left party politics as I already mentioned itt.
Your views are the carbon copy of every affluent white liberal succubus in America and Europe. You may not realize it, but the views you and every other supposed "extremist leftist" has has been dripfed to you from academic "circlejerks."
This is because the academics formulate responses to rightist criticism, publishers make it easy to understand, youtubers like Vaush put it into inflammatory language, and then Reddit idiots proliferate it. The redditors believe all of these "interesting" facts without really understanding them, but I'll mention a specific example.
Why is transgender ideology critical to leftism? The point of leftism is a communist utopia for the proletariat, right? Trannyism is an issue formulated by academics. The reddit cope, primarily fed into reddit by Vaush and the likes, is that it is "le necessary" for unity. Obviously this is false: transgender ideology is divisive to the proletariat, but I will not get in to that. The real reason it is "le necessary" is because academics want to put as many obstacles in between leftists and class unity as possible. Academics themselves are dripfed and directed by the billionaire 1%ers, and the current neo-marxist philosophical strain is to discover as many non-class based forms of oppression or inequality as possible, magnify, amplify, exacerbate, and then "solve" in a manner that is never a permanent solution. In this manner, the proletariat is always fightinf against perceived oppressions, or inventing new ones to screech about; instead of going directly to a bilderberg meeting and blowing shit up, they smash the windows in of middle class homes and small businesses.
For this final question, (why do they consider the other classes to be the current biggest enemy, or at least the one most expedient to attack right now) the answer is again academic brainwashing. I won't explain the entire reasoning, but their cope is that by raping every other prole or upper prole, destroying them, taking from them everything, they will somehow make those proles have "nothing left to lose" and thereby suddenly realize that the true enemy is the 1%. They won't, and this interesting form of proletarian inter-class warfare is an absolutely BRILLIANT invention of the capitalist class, if I am to give respect where it's due.
You are a carbon copy. Your minor idiosyncratic differences amount to naught. You are a useful tool to further anti-proletarian skull cracking.
The cycle of leftist ideology:>Billionaires need to delay the proletarian revolution>They form massive think tanks to create complex copes that almost nobody understands>they use trans-national organizations to distribute these hunks of text to universities>Professors that are too lazy or stupid to understand will blindly agree with the outline>Professors that disagree do not want to go against the grain or embroil themselves in controversy>there is now "academic consensus">This "academic consensus" is taken for a scientific one>The media and journalists perpetuate the view>Journals cite this "academic consensus">New books cite garbage texts and worthless rhetoric>Students eat it up>Professors and students feed their opinions into social media>Youtubers and influencers spread it further on social media, creating the perception that these views and critiques are "bottom up" rather than funded from the top>Anything that criticizes this view is censored, banned, or deemed right-wing, causing people like you to be afraid of criticizing it>(You are here)
It is in this manner that the billionaire capitalist class has an unbreakable stranglehold on the entirety of philosophical, political, and academic thought.
Democrat poster here, this is basically the way i feel
Your whole post is just one big assumption about me, basically one shitpost you farted out because you couldn't think of anything to say. I don't watch meme youtubers or listen to influencers, I also never browsed reddit. I could keep listing all the things you got wrong about me but it would take really long.
When it comes to trannies, my question is simply that: why not? People get very worked up about secondary issues like this. I don't have any problem with trannies, I think if someone feels the need to operate himself/herself into the opposite sex then whatever? Good for him, her, it, whatever. I never understood the autism concerning this thing, both from leftists and right-wingers. If you get worked up over shit like this, that trannies exist then you have a problem in the head, I'm sorry. It's not just that they are an extreme minority but a person must have ultra control freak mindset to obsess over other people's sexual habits. People should just accept that everyone is free to do as he pleases regarding sexuality. If you don't like trannies then maybe don't spend your time reading internet stories about them and watching videos about them? For starters…
Your whole conspiracy-tard "the jews are behind leftism" shit is old news to anyone who knows your kind. The 1% is actively spreading ideologies that will eventually result in their own annihilation…For being the geniuses behind the scenes they aren't being very smart. The current political ideology shilled in the west is liberal capitalism. You can bullshit about intellectual ""neomarxists"" or what you like but liberal capitalism is what it is. You got all your memes and arguments from /pol/ 4chan clearly. Meanwhile I researched topics actually for myself and continue to study philosophy and politics.> instead of going directly to a bilderberg meeting and blowing shit up, they smash the windows in of middle class homes and small businesses.
You really revealed yourself with this one, huh? The middle class had/has nothing to do with the proletariat and anyone who is familiar with revolutionary thought understands this. Going to Trump's house and blowing it up is harder to pull off, that's all. When you are part of the elite you are well protected, it's not hard to grasp is it? Meanwhile fighting against the middle class is essential. The middle class is the one enabling tyrants and who are the most ready to serve the capitalist masters. Cry me a river because your two cars got burned and your shop got robbed, bourgeoisie filth…
You don't care about the proletariat, you are another polfag spewing echochamber lies and you are offended how come someone has a differing opinion from yours?? Go give a blowjob to your middle class shopowners and employers.>>300532
Just read what I said to your friend. You are delusional if you think leftism is the ruling thought of western politics. It is liberal capitalism. Where are you reading or hearing about collectivization or economic equality nowadays? Where do you hear about how disgusting private property is?
The ideology of the ruling elite has always been some kind of state related ideology. They never supported anarchy! Plot twist, woo!
this is my problem with da leffft as well. The Anthropocentric Global Warming concept is all a complete fraud, as is the anti-white institutional grievance policies they set. WN is a daydream for people who aren't serious
What I like about "socialists" is their willingness to address the economic issues whereas the "conservatives" have this nonsense idea they're good for the economy when this excludes the livelihood of common people. >>300539
I'm just coming into this conversational tree but the Tranny issue is very obviously not being handled well. Cutting off your penis and making a hole while going on hormones for life so only a little under half rather than most kill themselves is obviously a low effectiveness policy. We'd be better off just giving gender-confused types hormones related to their biological gender and seeing if it brings them back to normality. Xenoestrogen exposure is also a concern.
Muh proletarian etc etc. White working class and trumpism while the soys are all overeducated college kids working in expensive cities they obviously have no place being in…
battery is dying but the final point about da tribeeeee is worth some discussion. They are highly overrepresented in the liberal-left coalition and have been instrumental in cultural marxism, passing the immigration act in the us, and subverting the media institutions etc. I don't consider the jaycue stuff worth fixation but it's got some truth to it. See Kevin McDonald. My local communist party spends all it's time talking about trannies and black lives matter; is this a serious economic-first movement? No, it's totally subverted just like the rite
>>300539>>300539>you think leftism is the ruling thought of western politics. It is liberal capitalism
We've been through this. "That brand of leftism isn't REAL leftism"
Define what "Leftism" is exactly if you expect people to differentiate between every step on some spectrum left-wing politics
also I hate the normalization of recreational drug abuse. We banned addictive substances for a reason, decriminalizing everything does fuckall to actual solve any problem and just means we have a bunch of transient homeless that gets ever bigger. Basically every aspect of modern lefty policymaking is insane or a lie actually, it's like the core source code is so corrupted that you're better off making a new mainstream party to actually address the problems instead of this carnival of petty astroturfed interest groups that don't act for the public good. Globohomo and it's consequences has been a disaster for the human race and is the dying gasp of western institutions as migrants take over and wreck everything
Ah, I apologize for wasting your time. I didn't know you were unintelligent. Hopefully you'll get better.
OP has invited "Leftist Wizards" to discuss their worldview, but he refuses to define what "Leftist" is. His thread should be moved to /b/.
>>300540>No, it's totally subverted just like the rite
We can tell what has been totally subverted based on whether the government uses soft or hard suppression on it. Leftists run through entire cities and burn them down, get arrested and released with all charges dropped after a few days, when video evidence gives undeniable proof that they committed violent felonies. Rightists get swat raids for internet posts, boomer dad gets held at gunpoint and arrested by police at his home for attending a concerned parent meeting at a school board, etc.
The right wants to kill billionaires and they are taking steps to do it. It doesn't matter if there is a mountain of extra targets on their hitlist.
The left is just killing and looting whatever they see, and mostly fighting for sex-reassignment on children or legalizing pedophilia.
I'm a landlord but I'm also a leftist because I know poor people struggle in this world, it is cruel and inhumane how we treat the poor in capitalist countries
I support universal basic income
>>300529>Genetics us Nazi!
Just prove my point, great majority of Leftist can't deal with science, there like right winger science deniers.
%95 of this world rejects science. Muslims , christians , rightists , leftists just everyone. Its incredible that only small percentage of people in this world knows truth. Truth of evolution and Darwin .Evolution ,Darwinism and genetics disproves all religions, leftism and equality , yet so many people believe these stupid lies its just insane to me.
None of the things you listed can be proven and it's just theories. Scientism is your religion and you seem to be the type of guy who tries to explain everything with science.
So do right wingers : christcucks/anti vaxx
no one has ever witnessed a new species evolve, that will take millions of years to happen. so yeah, because one of the main points of the theory is unfalsifiable it will remain just that, a theory. and curiously it utterly fails to explain the most important thing it should explain, human origins. humans are better than apes in two ways, intelligence and communication. in every single other metric humans are a step back from monkeys, a lot of the time in shocking ways. why did humans become so much weaker than monkeys? why are gorillas (jungle dwelling animals) covered in fur while europeans arent? why do humans have so many more genetic disorders than anything else on the planet? why do humans have 46 chromosomes when monkeys have 48?
as you can see the picture ive attached completely destroys the theory of evolution. a human would have to go to amazing efforts to achieve the default physique of a chimpanzee fed on the slop he gets at the zoo. in what world could weakness and fragility lead to more reproductive success?
Evolution does not need millions of years; it just needs enough generations to adapt. That can be surprisingly few in the grand scheme of things.
I'm just adding a note, by the way. I don't care if you don't think it's true.
>>300566>I don't care if you don't think it's true
lmao are you a fucking succubus? who the fuck cares you fucking faglord
>it just needs enough generations to adapt
yeah you can breed dogs with long tails and funny ears, how long have we known this for? that has absolutely nothing to do with a species gaining new features, like sight, or flight. if all you wanted to do is chime in and remind me and everyone else in the thread that evolution also refers to microevolution then you can go right ahead and delete your shitstain of a post, because absolutely no one here needed that.
maybe get your english teacher to help you out with reading my posts, i dont feel like teaching the latest brazilian retard around here how to parse a basic english sentence
The first letter in a sentence must be capitalized, as well as individual "I"s, the E in English, the B in Brazilian, and you must end sentences with a period. Where you had the comma, you should have wrote "my posts, because
i dont[sic]", else you could have just used a semicolon.
just admit you got owned, this is fucking sad LOL
You could ask the same question about a giraffe's neck or a peacock's tail. You've confused what humans consider strong for what life does, which subsumes our notions of strength. If you were reptilian it would be obvious how the higher metabolism of mammals and lack of scales makes them maladaptive, and similarly the beetle asks why more don't have exoskeletons (as their shell is clearly stronger, according to the beetle)>>300566
Adaptation is conclusive, speciation less so. This is partly because species is poorly defined, it wasn't until the 70s that individuation and speciation were addressed with the precision they require. The other question is the standard of proof (direct observation) demanded in this case, often uniquely. Hard inference is strictly speaking not proof, but this also raises epistemic problems for >>300564
in his own post
Just kill yourself man
Nobody wants to deal with you leftist retards.You're only interesting when you're in those anti-fa beat down videos.
Big fan of OP. I really appreciate his work.
>>300577>You could ask the same question about a giraffe's neck or a peacock's tail
no, you couldnt, because giraffes need their long necks to reach the leaves on trees, and peacocks need their tails to attract mates. there is no logical reason for evolution to favor weaker humans, and no natural scenario in which humans could evolve to be weaker. how do you propose human bones became half as dense as primate bones? are succubi viscerally repulsed by strong men? or actually, what would be funny is if succubi actually favored nerds and thats how humans got so weak and smart, but obviously this isnt the case.
As a rightoid, OP, stay strong. I believe you're wrong, but as humans we should try to fight for what we think is right. If I am just delusional, I would hope that you leftists turn out successful.
Regardless, I really do hope humanity reaches a solution. We're nobodies and our views have very little impact. There is mostly just value in personally being right, and helping others be right, so that if we ever need to make a decision, we are informed by truth.
Just keep searching for the truth. I think if someone is genuine, and not driven by selfish aims, they will discover what is true. Good luck anyway, OP, and I hope you live a happy life whether you would crack my rightoid skull in or not.
>>300580>no, you couldnt, because giraffes need their long necks to reach the leaves on trees, and peacocks need their tails to attract mates. there is no logical reason for evolution to favor weaker humans, and no natural scenario in which humans could evolve to be weaker.
It would have been more logical for giraffes to bend down like other animals on the savanna, and for male peacocks not to be immobilized by their sexy tail. Neither of their adaptations makes them stronger relative to other animals of a similar taxonomy, and that same illogic applies to humans (and really the entire mammalian and reptilian branches, unless you privilege cataclysmic events)
>how do you propose human bones became half as dense as primate bones?
Supposedly that's from reduced musculature as you said before, and that's also why our rib cages are less pyramidal than primates. I don't know much about it
>are succubi viscerally repulsed by strong men? or actually, what would be funny is if succubi actually favored nerds and thats how humans got so weak and smart, but obviously this isnt the case.
There's some genomic evidence that religion and law (also directed by succubi, that is, priests and judges) have had those filtering affects comparatively recently. As history shows this has produced a more deceptive, lethal, and warlike humanity. Lower dimorphism similarly results in a less competitive but more dynamic and violent species, so what "weak and smart" exactly means isn't entirely clear. If you value strength this could all be viewed positively
>>300601>Neither of their adaptations makes them stronger relative to other animals of a similar taxonomy
yet there is still a clear reason/use for their adaptations, there is no reason at all for humans to be physically weak.
>>300564>why did humans become so much weaker than monkeys? why are gorillas (jungle dwelling animals) covered in fur while europeans arent? why do humans have so many more genetic disorders than anything else on the planet? why do humans have 46 chromosomes when monkeys have 48?
Check out this videohttps://youtu.be/7YS_9kYj3Fw?t=4447
>>300643>there is no reason at all for humans to be physically weak.
Humans make tools > tools compound human force > calories spent on building muscle mass and bone density go to making big brain
you could really have chosen any other hill to die on like abiogenesis but nah, you're just retarded.
>>300652>calories spent on building muscle mass and bone density go to making big brain
Men who lift and bodyduild have the largest brain sizes. Growing the body isn't a matter of choice between brain or brawn; they both grow in parallel. You've presented the most juvenile of jokes about how strong guys are stupid and weak guys have big brains, when reality is the opposite.
If someone wants to think he is a succubus or vice versa then let him. It's not your or mine concern. It should be part of basic human freedom to do whatever you want with your body as long as you don't hurt others.
Why do you think jews tend to be leftists or liberal capitals? Just think about it and look at history, I'm sure it has nothing to do with traditional society treating them like animals for hundreds of years because of religious superstitions and envy for their success in certain areas.>>300541
Leftism is about liberating and making people equal through the means of economic equality. Everyone who is familiar with basic politics and political theory knows this. Marx made it very clear that people are the products of their economic systems and without changing the economy nothing will change truly.
So again, how are liberal capitalists leftists? Do they fight for
1.) the abolition of private property?
2.) the abolition of every kind of oppression including the state and law enforcement?
3.) economic collectivization?
4.) the proletariat via standing up against rich people of all kinds, not just conservative capitalists but liberal capitalists too??
Most of the liberals you hate have no problem with private property and rich people and economic inequality at all it seems to me.>>300551
It is true or do you deny that the nazis very extremely concerned about so called good breeding? We saw what overly caring about genetics leads to and it just serves as an excuse for the privileged classes to get rid of those who are in worse conditions on the behalf of "mercy".>>300552
Darwin influenced Marx and leftist thought, are you seriously this uneducated? I guess you are one of those so genetic obsessed crabs who think because tfwugly they are destined to live a life of silent and passive misery.
Just some thoughts. Survival of the fittest. Were the revolutionaries of the Russian Revolution weak or inferior? Obviously no since they managed to overcome their rulers and exploiters and got rid of them. The right-wing thinks about social darwinism that it is all fine and dandy if you do it in the framework of capitalist society. Like if you can lick your superior's anus enough and earn the approval of society you can rise to a high status and then you are considered fit for survival…My point is, that is an extremely limited pov and revolutions all over the world proved that what is strong and weak by normal standards isn't necessarily true. Economic conditions aren't set in stone, systems and societies and cultures aren't absolute. Just because you perform badly in capitalist society for whatever reason doesn't mean you are inferior by any means.
Generally on the question of who is inferior and superior, there is no clear answer to that. Because if there were, that would imply there is an objective meaning to existence and therefore objective standards to which all of us must live up to or perish. There is no objective goal for existence simply.>inb4 survival>inb4 passing on your genes
It was exactly Darwin himself who proved that species can go extinct at any time because of even small and seemingly insignificant changes in the environment. Humanity didn't exist always and it will go extinct eventually too someday. There is no meaning and goal to life, so who is inferior and superior remains undecided and entirely up to subjective interpretation.>>300578>You're only interesting when you're in those anti-fa beat down videos.
You mean when the antifa beats up rightos? It must be extremely humiliating for fascists to get their asses handed to them by some succubi and literal faggots, huh!>>300579
Much appreciate the positive feedback. Fight the good fight and never lose courage.>>300582
I can respect someone like you, who is at least open-minded and not stuck up in his own echochamber. I do a lot of studying and reading on my own and value fellow independent thinkers.
I would have to ask you, why is it good to reduce suffering? Why is it good if more people are free or not exploited? Do you have a rational reason for any of this? Is there a metaphysical principle which arbitrates good and evil?
I wish leftism was functional and everything worked where people get along with each other we have great social security and lots of opportunity but brown people make it impossible. The brown man will ruin all.
It's more that any superficial but easily detectable difference between groups will guarantee a fracture point for tensions. There is no moral reason to support diversity, regardless of whether different races are equal or not.
>>300661>Leftism is about liberating and making people equal through the means of economic equality.
Yea this is what leftists always say and yet, did people have uch equality in the soviet union? Do people have an equal footing in cuba, venezuela, fucking north korea? I've never ever heard of a left regime that wasn't as fucked up as a capitalist one.
What about the north american left? You know, the one dominated by gender politics and systematic attacks on The White Cis Male, are they really fighting for economic equality? How many mental hoops do you need to jump through to argue that indeed they do? I could use the entertainment.
The current neo-marxist cope is that the proletariat cannot and should not rise up until they are unified, so that there is no ethnic/sexual/whatever rivalry afterwards. This means that they are primarily concerned with identity politics, and billionaires feed into this. As long as they can keep instigating racial violence (like promoting black nationalism or brainwashing children into getting their genitals mutilated) then they can keep creating false battles for the pseudo-marxists to fight.
As for why there has never been equality in any communist or socialist nation, it's because they've never defeated world capitalism so far. They need, in theory, world communism to make hierarchy obsolete. All of it is a cope invented by the suits in dark rooms, but Vaushfans and reddit McCommunists eat it up.
This is the reason antifa sides with Goldman Sachs and Chase Bank against poor wagies as hired thugs to protect an event hosted by a billionaire. They believe it's more important to "temporarily ally" with billionaires and the bourgeois to defeat "disunity."
Vaush had a segment where he was defending the CPUSA and other communist group's opposition to removing Disney's tax exempt status- quite literally a leftist move- and his cope was that (paraphrasing)>We are only temporarily aligned with billionaires. They think that by appeasing us, they will calm us down and stop the revolution, but they are accelerating it. We will make it spiral out of control…
>We are in a temporary intersectional alliance [with billionaires etc] against fascists.
They think they're the 200IQ 4D chess players, but they're just basic pawns.
It's not about reducing suffering universally. Firstly, that is quite impossible and this line of thought will lead you to christian, buddhist or pessimist nihilism where you believe you should avoid every kind of conflict and should be resigned because otherwise you will hurt others or commit a sin. I say, if you have a reason to fight for and for which you would be ready to hurt others then you can say that you found something to believe in. Something to live for. I'm guessing you mistook leftism for pacifism because of the hippy trend in the 60s gave people this idea, that to be leftist is to desire world peace and what nonsense. No, I think Mao's kind of leftism which is about a permanent revolution is more realistic. Every generation of the proletariat needs to fight the good fight and to earn their own freedom. Without shedding blood communism won't ever be realized and those who say they can make it happen peacefully are liars or hypocrites and would be better off as christian monks.
So I'm not out to ease the suffering of all people universally, I'm out to liberate my own class which is the proletariat. Class interests come before anything else.>Why is it good if more people are free or not exploited?>Do you have a rational reason for any of this?
I belong to the proletariat so I fight for the cause of the proletariat. To fight for the higher-ups would be like betraying myself. I live for myself and want to change things so that I can live a better life. I'm an egoist but unlike you I don't picture myself living as part of the capitalist system. I want communism and rule of the proletariat because it would suit me better to live in world like that.>>300670
The Soviet Union and other state commies make/made the mistake of forming a state. Marx was wrong on this part, forming any kind of state is just an obstacle on the path to victory. People need to organize society from below upwards and not down from above. State communism falls into the mistake of thinking that you can give liberty and equality to the people. No, you can't. People have to want to be free and equal and have to fight for their equality and freedom themselves. Otherwise, things will end up the same as in capitalist/fascist societies where a small minority holds all privileges over the masses.
>What about the north american left?…are they really fighting for economic equality?
The point of my walls of text was exactly that there is no north american left. American politics doesn't allow for leftism to flourish at all since AmeriKKKa is based on capitalism and capitalism is so much a part of ameriKKKan culture that the elite prevents any kind of leftism from being popular among the people. So you have liberal capitalists and conservative capitalists arguing each other about useless shit like legalizing drugs, trannies and #metoo crap. Then lately why do you think Trump appeared? He is part of the elite too and he was tasked with creating an alt-right/semi-fascist revolution so that the elite can point to all the retards and say that we need stricter laws!! The USA is a police state and they use Trump and his loony followers as an excuse to tighten their grip on the people and to create an even more capitalist and oppressive culture.>>300679
Sounds like liberals are doing basically what the nazis and fascists did before rising to power, Hitler and Mussolini and their troops started out as hired muscle for rich people too.
>>300688>People need to organize society from below upwards and not down from above.
Here's something that may shock you: The societies of today ultimately emerged, thousands of years ago, bottom-up.
>People have to want to be free and equal and have to fight for their equality and freedom themselves.
Most people want to conform, to be told what to do, to not have to think for themselves, to have the path cleared ahead of them.
Leftists are really kinda dumb, aren't they?
Freedom and equality are incompatible opposites.
You can't have both.
>>300688>It's not about reducing suffering universally. Firstly, that is quite impossible and this line of thought will lead you to christian, buddhist or pessimist nihilism where you believe you should avoid every kind of conflict and should be resigned because otherwise you will hurt others or commit a sin. …
The vast majority of people don't care. I want an objective reason that someone should want to fight for "the proletariat" besides "it's le good!"
Reminder that the radical leftist shill poster admitted yesterday that he encourages wizards to use drugs and to watch porn all day in almost every thread because he thinks it serves his anarchist agenda. Mods deleted his posts and the replies to it because he went too overboard with with it but I'm sure some of you saw it in that retarded "wizprovement" thread which is also just a dupe to further encourage drug and porn use.
He's also the same poster who keeps counter-signaling any improvement posts because he doesn't want anyone to change their habits. He admitted to drinking and doing drugs daily as part of his little culture war. I should have screenshoted it.
The guy is a major schizo who thinks his constant shilling in almost every thread will somehow lead to the anarchist revolution.
>>300718>The guy is a major schizo who thinks his constant shilling in almost every thread will somehow lead to the anarchist revolution.
Long odds, but it would be pretty cool if it does.
dranny obsession is normalizing speech and thought police and putting radlib crazies in charge while they wreck our instititions and science. These "people" are civilization wreckers holding onto extreme minority viewpoints perverting science just like a Lysenko.>>300718
degenerates don't have an ideology so much as an obsession with bringing others down to their level. Good to know, the fash is rising frenz
That guy is holy based and he is the ultimate wiz. Leave him alone.
He really wrote some dumb shit when his posts got deleted and hes a nuisance all together since he keeps shitting up every thread in an effort to push his politics into every space of wizchan.
He posted in 2 threads, this and the one on wiz as far as I noticed. He didn't break any rules yet his posts got deleted in the thread on wiz. Wtf?
If you ask me, /polshit/ is all over this site and the mods are fine with it but when someone disagrees with them then they delete his posts and most likely ban him?? So now only tradcons and fascists can be wizards? Weird. I'm a liberal myself and don't feel like there is any freedom of speech here. If they are gonna delete political posts then they should clean up the whole site because tradcon larpers are in every thread shilling their propaganda.
Anyway, found it really weird how his posts all got removed just like that. He posted on topic stuff and didn't derail the thread any further than the guys he argued with. I was quite interested in their debate and would have liked it to continue.
You weren't there when he showed his true face when he had some sort of a meltdown, it showed his resent for wizchan.
He posted is a lot more threads and other people here have already complained about this.
this faggot has been posting low quality derails to keep regulars from talking pol for at least half a year. xe gets really mad when you start talking about race realism as well, this one actually watches and believes breadtuber vids. Watch Ryan Faulk and stop being a baby anarcho-trannykun
If he's only gonna spout his political opinion everywhere like this was Twitter then why should he even post here, he never provided anything other than bringing his politics into almost every thread with his obnoxious mass replies and derailing posts. I hope the mods finally banned this annoying idiot.
I'm a leftist because the alternative is retarded and that's pretty much it. I haven't though much about politics otherwise.
I'm a wizard and have been from oldwiz since two weeks after it was made. I don't know where you were when the kulturekampf started but you're on the wrong side of history or ethnic if pol hasn't filtered down into your brain. Like anybody with a clue I developed racial consciousness after being exposed to hundreds of antiwhite institutional attacks packaged as "equality". And after that you just figure out it's a bunch of lies held together by cultural programming and duplicitous cultural commentators anyways
I fucking wish. I'd do 1933 again in a heartbeat
I'm the guy who told the mods to make /lounge/. I'm the guy in the wiz facebook pic floating around who posted the black science man pic. I was around when Cripplekike lost his mana and Anachronos banned pedoshit.
>But da notseeeesssss are bad
don't care you're antiwhite and communism failed. Every pillar of "left" orthodoxy is based on a lie or cognitive distortion. Don't like the redpills stop soliciting me to drop'em.
The effort you put into derailing every thread for months didn't pay off and even the mods who let your shit slide for so long were fed up finally.
Just because one opposes leftism it doesn't mean he's a nazi and even if someone is right wing it doesn't mean he supports hitlers policies. Your black and white thinking has fucked you up in the end, you kept annoying the fuck out of so many people on here and everyone kept telling you to shut up. You have such a deluded view of stuff that you think autists will get gassed by neo nazis or that anyone who opposes porn and drugs is a right winger.
You also put so much effort into counter signaling any improvement posts that were in good spirit towards helping other wizards which also makes you look like a fag.
>Then keep your shit to your discord servers and private chatrooms. Nobody gives a fuck here about your white nationalism and de jewws theories. The majority of the userbase here just wants to enjoy his life in solitude with his hobbies.
Literally every post you made in the last few months was about your political views you ignorant dumb fuck. You even admitted that all these posts promoting porn and drugs were also part of your anarchist agenda so literally every post was about your politcal views you dumb retard. You took every chance you could to make things about your politcs.
>You aren't even a wizard or volcel
>you can't post polshit because it's not my niche definition of wizardry
You've sperged out enough times for it to be obvious you're a breadtuber lefty trying to fence in the site using a bunch of spurious assertions or truwizardry like every other meta thread since the dawn of time has. Also self improvement is based and it's fucking retarded that you take offense to it
Nobody derails anything except for you and your buddies. You post nofap shit, how we gotta do smt "productive" with our lives, how we mustn't smoke weed, wahh wahh every single time and you get away with it because the mods are your friends while other people like me who don't break any rules get banned for some bullshit excuse. This is apparent to most people here at this point, that some posters here enjoy special privileges thanks to their connections and can get away with posting ANYTHING. Like one of those times when your kind posted how having sex is healthy for us while masturbation is bad. Now it was about shitting on the NEET lifestyle in the wiz thread (which is also a bannable offense yet I was the one banned who stood up for the NEET lifestyle). You are completely reversing the values this site and subculture was built around.
Most people here disagree with you yet you and your friends rule this place thanks to mod privileges. We want equality and equal treatment, plus freedom of speech. We've had enough. Time to decide what this site is about, whether it's for volcels or for nazi/tradcon larpers. Because it is clear that there are unwritten rules and that the actual rules don't mean anything to your ilk.
The improvement posts you make btw are all geared towards creating normalfags out of us. That's why you get shit all the time for them. You argue with any kind of wizard who is having fun living the hedonist life, why? Because you are a bitter inzel who can't enjoy his life.
Right-wing is about shitting on anyone who is different from normals, yeah and if you can't see it you are brainwashed by years of browsing pol. They don't support bux, they hate NEETs, they hate "weak males", they hate "weirdos" like us. Right-wing is for r9kcore people who want to norm it up secretly or openly.
So it's all right to post political stuff if it's right-wing but not if it's left-wing? I'm all right with political discussions but then let's be fair about it. Because leftist opinions and views get deleted while you can post what you want.
You started this whole shitshow, now deal with it. You want to make this site political? Whatever but then that includes every kind of political opinions!>>300784
Self-improvement in your meaning is about making us go out and find a gf or a job. Fuck off with that.
look at the politics thread. Look at any of the self-improvement threads. It's overwhelmingly people trying to shit up the content to stop others from posting.
>anon has a difference of opinion!>why won't the mods ban people from disagreeing with my lifestyle choices?
talk about unwritten rules
the one on lounge. I stopped bothering because the derails were so glaringly constant. I don't think you're the vehement breadtube soycialist who keeps spurring these kinds of discussions anyways, just some gatekeeping /dep/ poster. As per polshit I hardly even post this except on /b/. We're a dominant subculture on the imageboards, deal with it
You keep showing how deluded you are, how could you even think that theres a group of nazis on here who somehow also have a connection to the staff, this is even funnier when you keep in mind that this other schizo keeps claiming that the staff are secretly gay.
Seeing your obvious projection of things is even more painful and I hope that you are able to accept who you are one day. You can't find identity in your depressed state while trying to keep others at the same low level as you even if you put some kind of political label to it. >>300786>Self-improvement in your meaning is about making us go out and find a gf or a job. Fuck off with that.
The self improvement stuff on wizchan has always been aimed at improving ones well-being even if you choose to be a lonely neet but you keep opposing it because you don't care about helping others at all and never provide anything valuable and instead you keep shitting on what others provide. Also self-improvement is not opposing the NEET lifestyle, self-improvement is not limited to neets or people who work. Saying that porn, drugs or spending your whole day jerking off is a bad idea is also not opposing the NEET lifestyle.
>This is exactly my problem with alt-right stuff, it's actually mainstream too like mainstream liberalism
It really isn't. Some culture war narratives go mainstream but the hard alt right people are in communities of under 1000. WN youtubers were getting 20-40k views tops and that's the entire English speaking world. Only on a subset of issues and broad topics does the polling reach 30%+. They're in the news often and are becoming more normal but polshit still actually is "enlightened sages" with a bunch of rabble rousing retards circulating the content widely across the internet from there. Anyways I don't see much purpose in arguing with you since you think I called the mods, who I don't trust one fucking bit
You are the one who keeps getting triggered by anything and then starts making it political. Also just because this guy said hes /pol/ or whatever it doesn't mean that theres some kind of group here.
The mods didn't delete your posts because of politics, they deleted it because you posted some really retarded shit so you can stop feeding this into your schizo fantasy.
People rag on the middle classes too much, its the lower classes that are rubbish on a cultural and social level. I come from such a background, its a constant environment of poverty, drug abuse, violence, mental illness, familial conflict. The working and underclasses are constantly romanticised, but romanticism always comes after the fact. There's really little worthwhile, its a cyclical loop of misery and part of the reason why I guess there's been a positive historic appraisal of the archetypal "working class man", because they've had nothing else going for them.
I've seen people post that Anarchism is best for NEETs too, but I think that's wrong. Anarchism should be prefaced with the words 'Latter-Day' to highlight its inherently predatory nature towards people like us. Its no wonder that modern day Leftist sentiment is wrapped up in transsexuality, Nazism and heavy online discourse. Predators tend to coalesce with one another.
Every major communist country threw "work shy" people into camps.
Besides, ethnic nationalism preserves both the existence of these neets, and the functioning of society. It's both altruistic and egoistic.
Agreed. I'm lower class and the middle class are like adult babies. They are incredibly naïve, innocent, and kind, very helpful in many ways, but they have literally no clue how horribly sick and violent most poor people are. They're like the french aristocracy at the time of the revolution, romanticizing the plebs. They won't know the brutality until the poors that they're donating 20% of their income to break into their homes, torture the fuck out of them, and execute every last man, succubus, and child.
Nazi Germany would be another example. IIRC they were called anti-socials and had a colored triangle of their own, just like gays, jews, gypsies, jehovas witnesses, and other various undesirables had in the same camp systems.
I'm not saying their take on National Socialism was "communist" per se. But it's also interesting that the Union of Soviet Socialst Republics did similar with gulags without calling itself "communist." The People's Republic of China doesn't have "communist" in its name either, although it does at least have one party rule that outright calls itself communist. The c-word is easy to throw around, and I do it as well, but there's probably a better and more general word to use. Tyranical? I'm to lazy to go on a wordsmithing journey, but I just thought I'd throw that into the camp stew fwiw.
Nazi Germany was officially socialist (National Socialists) as was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Their practices ideologies were fairly similar, but in the USSR the primary political powers were city bourgeois, industrial workers, criminals, and Jews. They were bitterly opposed to the royals, middle class, kulaks (middle class landowners), bourgeois upperclass men, and rural peasants,
The NSDAP Germany was a union of Military, middle class, industrial workers, rural peasants, and a select few rich businessmen (primarily ethnic Germans that agreed to partially nationalize). They bitterly opposed Jews, globalist businessmen (they called international hyenas), the bourgeois upper class, genetically inferior people,and anyone that wasn't ethnically Western European.
Both of them arrested, punished, or killed most of their upper class and rich bourgeois. In the USSR, select businessmen transitioned into heads of bureaus as apparatchiks and kept wealth while most businesses were nationalized, this includes middle class family owned businesses, and in NSDAP Germany they did fairly similarly, nationalizing a lot of businesses (like banking and transportation) while wildly supportive large corporations were able to stay privatized so long as they swore total fealty to the Nazi party.
They were honestly pretty similar, with Nazi Germany taking a more sensible pro-middle class approach. I don't think the middle class is bad, and small businesses are really helpful especially for the community. I think the USSR's big fault (one of the primary reasons their economy failed) was their virulently anti-middle class sentiment. It just wasn't realistic to nationalize every mom and pop shop in every city and village, and a lot of rural people became increasingly bitter and resentful when their "liberators" indiscriminately killed people that simply owned an acre or two to grow vegetables.
leftists are dangerous people. their mental illness dictated fantasy is to take everything people have and burn it in a huge fire, force upon them a state that is more oppressive and coldblooded than the usual crony capitalist one and create a country that is driven by it which will inevitably grind to a halt every single time because it runs on an all powerful centralized government that is a source of monstrous inefficiency and its planned economy is destined to fail as empirical evidence shows and economic theory constitutes. they dream of solving all social problems by switching to an unethical order where property rights are abolished involuntary action precedes, a man who can own nothing and only can justify his value by the service he provides for others, in order words can only exist as a slave. they will let this mental illness erode their minds their whole lives while the state robs them for the benefit of the others and everything they are given will be the byproduct of the efficiency of capitalism, and who do you think they will spend their lives blaming for everything bad happening in this world? the sole perpetrator of wars, source of all financial crises, a power hungry entity that only wants to grow its borders at the cost of millions lives, or a guy who built a factory with the money he inherited from his father? I think you guessed it right.
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