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If any wizard here wishes to obtain independency one day (as in moving away from your parents home and having enough steady income to live a decent life), I urge you not to enter college or uni and pursue a degree. The job market for these types of jobs is very oversaturated and extremely competetive, since the whole "go to college and become something"-meme has gone way, way overboard in mainstream society, already many years ago. It is also extremely nepotism-driven, since the jobs themselves are about 50% nonsense, so people will obviously hire friends and family, when there barely even is a job that needs to be done to begin with. For this reason it is also very social.
Assuming you have the physical health/condition to do manual labour, you should pursue a "career" in a skilled labour job that few people want to do, such as being an industrial painter or something. Even if you are a fucking genious, you should do this. The job market is destroyed, this world is completely destroyed. I shake my head when I read about wizards being in university or college, knowing what fate most of these people are in for.
Assuming you have the physical health/condition to do manual labour, you should pursue a "career" in a skilled labour job that few people want to do, such as being an industrial painter or something. Even if you are a fucking genious, you should do this. The job market is destroyed, this world is completely destroyed. I shake my head when I read about wizards being in university or college, knowing what fate most of these people are in for.
You know we have a long running thread all about job stuff right?
Also a couple of threads about ways to make money, including wizardly jobs/careers too.
I just don't think what you had to say on this topic is enough to generate enough discussion to sustain a whole thread. Espcially since is is quite a common idea that I am pretty sure most have already heard at this point.
Not only that, most here totally loathe the idea of slaving away at anything even coming close to hard physical labor.
Also a couple of threads about ways to make money, including wizardly jobs/careers too.
I just don't think what you had to say on this topic is enough to generate enough discussion to sustain a whole thread. Espcially since is is quite a common idea that I am pretty sure most have already heard at this point.
Not only that, most here totally loathe the idea of slaving away at anything even coming close to hard physical labor.
College/university is about risk/reward and the person deciding to pursue a certain degree should do a market analysis first. Checking the general availability of jobs, the requirements for an entry level job, local job opportunities and whether you want to move, student loans, taking into account how much the degree will be worth in the future etc.
Basically, you should put some thought into it and pick something that is the sweet spot in terms of your interest, capabilities and market worth. Otherwise, I suggest to look into trade jobs i.e. stuff like plumbing, carpentry, car mechanics etc. that is always in demand, pays well and where you can effectively be your own boss.
In my case, an essentially zero cost CS degree was a no brainer in my country. The US and other countries are probably different which is why you should consider all the variables before taking up loans. Most wizzies go to college so they can appease their parents and extend their teenage years with zero thought into the future.
Basically, you should put some thought into it and pick something that is the sweet spot in terms of your interest, capabilities and market worth. Otherwise, I suggest to look into trade jobs i.e. stuff like plumbing, carpentry, car mechanics etc. that is always in demand, pays well and where you can effectively be your own boss.
In my case, an essentially zero cost CS degree was a no brainer in my country. The US and other countries are probably different which is why you should consider all the variables before taking up loans. Most wizzies go to college so they can appease their parents and extend their teenage years with zero thought into the future.
It can not be overstated the effects of friend/social circle nepotism, and "soft skills."
They want someone who they can go to happy hour with after work, even if they never do. Or they want someone to push around. It's not about being pleasant, decent, or trying to fit in. That's why the obfuscation of the idea with jargon.
It's probably more than 50% bullshit between pretending to work, meetings for meetings, and all the interpersonal nonsense "politics."
They want someone who they can go to happy hour with after work, even if they never do. Or they want someone to push around. It's not about being pleasant, decent, or trying to fit in. That's why the obfuscation of the idea with jargon.
It's probably more than 50% bullshit between pretending to work, meetings for meetings, and all the interpersonal nonsense "politics."
>>157015
>College/university is about risk/reward and the person deciding to pursue a certain degree should do a market analysis first.
The market for jobs that require degrees in general, is very oversaturated. There are way too many people studying basically anything you can think of. Maybe there are a few local exceptions, where a certain thing is in demand, but that is generally not the case.
>Otherwise, I suggest to look into trade jobs i.e. stuff like plumbing, carpentry, car mechanics etc. that is always in demand, pays well and where you can effectively be your own boss.
And now you make it sound like this is some sort of magical unicorn. Note that I wasn't talking about trades in general, I was talking about undesirable jobs within trades. Just going into a trade isn't enough, you have to be strategic even here, because even this market is not as easy as some people make it out to be. And you're not just gonna magically become a tradesman either, it's tough, and you might not even be cut out for it. But it is the smarter route to go in this world that we live in today.
>In my case, an essentially zero cost CS degree was a no brainer in my country.
And have you gotten a job from this?
>>157017
>They want someone who they can go to happy hour with after work, even if they never do. Or they want someone to push around. It's not about being pleasant, decent, or trying to fit in. That's why the obfuscation of the idea with jargon.
True, there are too many people in the workforce to begin with, so jobs are being reduced into being a bunch of total nonsense in many cases.
>It's probably more than 50% bullshit between pretending to work, meetings for meetings, and all the interpersonal nonsense "politics."
I'm an industrial worker, so I work alongside engineers and get to see what their job is all about. Most of what they do is basically sales and maintaining relationships/mingling with customers. It is to a large extent a social game, while another part of it is acutal engineering work. There's just no way in hell you would be able to put a wizard in one of those jobs, unless this was a chadwiz.
>College/university is about risk/reward and the person deciding to pursue a certain degree should do a market analysis first.
The market for jobs that require degrees in general, is very oversaturated. There are way too many people studying basically anything you can think of. Maybe there are a few local exceptions, where a certain thing is in demand, but that is generally not the case.
>Otherwise, I suggest to look into trade jobs i.e. stuff like plumbing, carpentry, car mechanics etc. that is always in demand, pays well and where you can effectively be your own boss.
And now you make it sound like this is some sort of magical unicorn. Note that I wasn't talking about trades in general, I was talking about undesirable jobs within trades. Just going into a trade isn't enough, you have to be strategic even here, because even this market is not as easy as some people make it out to be. And you're not just gonna magically become a tradesman either, it's tough, and you might not even be cut out for it. But it is the smarter route to go in this world that we live in today.
>In my case, an essentially zero cost CS degree was a no brainer in my country.
And have you gotten a job from this?
>>157017
>They want someone who they can go to happy hour with after work, even if they never do. Or they want someone to push around. It's not about being pleasant, decent, or trying to fit in. That's why the obfuscation of the idea with jargon.
True, there are too many people in the workforce to begin with, so jobs are being reduced into being a bunch of total nonsense in many cases.
>It's probably more than 50% bullshit between pretending to work, meetings for meetings, and all the interpersonal nonsense "politics."
I'm an industrial worker, so I work alongside engineers and get to see what their job is all about. Most of what they do is basically sales and maintaining relationships/mingling with customers. It is to a large extent a social game, while another part of it is acutal engineering work. There's just no way in hell you would be able to put a wizard in one of those jobs, unless this was a chadwiz.
>>157018
>The market for jobs that require degrees in general, is very oversaturated.
You can't say this without actually doing an analysis. It's firstly location dependent, jobs prospects can vary from state to state or country from country. A tech degree in Silicon Valley is worth more than in the middle of nowhere.
>And now you make it sound like this is some sort of magical unicorn.
It's not, but it's a valid alternative that gets overlooked because everyone is pushing higher education and looking down on anyone that isn't willing to go into debt to get marxist propaganda pushed down their throats.
Getting training in trade jobs is easier, cheaper and takes less time, but has arguably better prospects than most degrees. I mean, a plumber is going to be able to work anywhere on the planet with a small toolbox and will always be in demand because people need to take shits and have running water.
>And have you gotten a job from this?
Currently 3rd year and working part-time from home as a programmer. Going to work full-time during the summer in an office and I'll decide if I want to stick with this company after graduation. I like the people there and there's a lot of room for growth.
However, I initially got the job because of a friend so I haven't really been analyzing the market or sending out CVs, just lucked out.
>The market for jobs that require degrees in general, is very oversaturated.
You can't say this without actually doing an analysis. It's firstly location dependent, jobs prospects can vary from state to state or country from country. A tech degree in Silicon Valley is worth more than in the middle of nowhere.
>And now you make it sound like this is some sort of magical unicorn.
It's not, but it's a valid alternative that gets overlooked because everyone is pushing higher education and looking down on anyone that isn't willing to go into debt to get marxist propaganda pushed down their throats.
Getting training in trade jobs is easier, cheaper and takes less time, but has arguably better prospects than most degrees. I mean, a plumber is going to be able to work anywhere on the planet with a small toolbox and will always be in demand because people need to take shits and have running water.
>And have you gotten a job from this?
Currently 3rd year and working part-time from home as a programmer. Going to work full-time during the summer in an office and I'll decide if I want to stick with this company after graduation. I like the people there and there's a lot of room for growth.
However, I initially got the job because of a friend so I haven't really been analyzing the market or sending out CVs, just lucked out.
>>157013
This is really good advice. All the unikids are in for an awakening once they're out and have no idea how cruel the world really is. Uni is the last easy thing in life.
This is really good advice. All the unikids are in for an awakening once they're out and have no idea how cruel the world really is. Uni is the last easy thing in life.
>>157013
Just want to add as a 27 year old wizard in training that university has been a major benefit to me and my independence (mathematical modelling, epidemiology) and I went through to masters without having a proper job (just research gigs from other awkward autists, theres loads in my field). I now make close to 200k yearly, this has been my personal experience, not sure if it is replicatable subjectively ;)
Just want to add as a 27 year old wizard in training that university has been a major benefit to me and my independence (mathematical modelling, epidemiology) and I went through to masters without having a proper job (just research gigs from other awkward autists, theres loads in my field). I now make close to 200k yearly, this has been my personal experience, not sure if it is replicatable subjectively ;)
>>157020
>I mean, a plumber is going to be able to work anywhere on the planet with a small toolbox and will always be in demand because people need to take shits and have running water.
It really isn't as easy as you try to make it sound, but you wouldn't know anyway. No point in trying to explain this to some uppity college boy/ naive forum browser without firsthand experience, I guess.
>However, I initially got the job because of a friend so I haven't really been analyzing the market or sending out CVs, just lucked out.
Nice, so we should listen to you then?
>>157023
Sure, take it from mainstream memes instead then. If you're browsing this site then you're never really gonna have a "career" anyway, unless you are a chadwiz.
>>157027
>All the unikids are in for an awakening once they're out and have no idea how cruel the world really is.
This is true, out there in the real world you are worth nothing.
What some wizards might not realize, is that you're not gonna end up like >>157030 unless you have at least normie tier social skills or insane luck, you're just not (assuming this isn't some roleplayer/liar). Getting a job and maintaining a job requires social skills, especially when it isn't a very hands-on job. If you lack social skills, you're gonna have a hard time out there on the job market, no matter how talented or skilled you are.
>I mean, a plumber is going to be able to work anywhere on the planet with a small toolbox and will always be in demand because people need to take shits and have running water.
It really isn't as easy as you try to make it sound, but you wouldn't know anyway. No point in trying to explain this to some uppity college boy/ naive forum browser without firsthand experience, I guess.
>However, I initially got the job because of a friend so I haven't really been analyzing the market or sending out CVs, just lucked out.
Nice, so we should listen to you then?
>>157023
Sure, take it from mainstream memes instead then. If you're browsing this site then you're never really gonna have a "career" anyway, unless you are a chadwiz.
>>157027
>All the unikids are in for an awakening once they're out and have no idea how cruel the world really is.
This is true, out there in the real world you are worth nothing.
What some wizards might not realize, is that you're not gonna end up like >>157030 unless you have at least normie tier social skills or insane luck, you're just not (assuming this isn't some roleplayer/liar). Getting a job and maintaining a job requires social skills, especially when it isn't a very hands-on job. If you lack social skills, you're gonna have a hard time out there on the job market, no matter how talented or skilled you are.
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>>157042
I have made my own theory I call 20/60/20.
The bottom 20% of any skill/trade/degree whatever, are absolutely worthless and will have a near to impossible time being employed simply because they lack anything that gives them an edge over anybody in anything. There will always be an applicant who will be better than them, even if its just a little thing like six months work experience, except if they are extremely lucky. But then they have to struggle to stay employed.
This is why you shouldnt do something you know you will be horrible at. Problems with math at school? Definetly no Mathematics/Physics and you should really think about that engineering degree.
Then there is the main 60% body, these are average drones who compete among each other for various things, be it money, prestige or employment itself. By definition there is not much to say about this bunch, they are average, have upsides and downsides which make it win/loss consideration for any employee. They should usually find employment in reasonable spots, except if there is really a minimal need for them, then they basically form a bottom 80%, as seen in "the liberal arts". Dont do that if you dont have the social background
Not every engineer, for example, can be a genius and there is a need for mediocer emplyees to fill the ranks.
Then there is the top 20%. These are the chads of your trade, they have an outstanding CV, lots practical experience as well as good grades. They may happen to compete among each other but it really doesnt matter that much as they will always find employment everywhere. These are the people who can go where they want to whatever company they want, they will always be first to get a job and there is no way you can compete.
Take my cousin, first he did training as an electrician. Then he became an officer at the Infantry. Now he completed his A levels and is about to study something with electricity, in his spare time he does software and hardware related things that I am to low IQ to understand and he isnt some nerd tard, good luck competing with that.
Examples;
McDonalds Burger Flipper/Restaurant Cook/Gordon Ramsay
Codemonkey/Software developer/IT SDE at Microsoft
Unemployed/Planmonkey/Engineer at Boeing
NCO/Officer/Senior Officer
If you are a wizard and you arent part of the upper 20% in which case you should fuck off you are done for. Being socially inept without outstanding skills puts you in a sever disadvantage and a chad in the bottom 20% might even beat you because he is more "convincing". There are winners and losers in this economy, and we are the losers.
The truth is, this game was rigged from the beginning.
Note that I am a 22 year old NEET, this is just from my experience looking for a job/training.
I suspect unemployment might be as high as 10%, if you DONT count fake makeshift jobs or long term "students". Unemployment rate is faked by excluding people in "programs", wageslaving at minimum wage, age or "disability", looking at you. And thats the overal rate, we wizkids are fucked.
I have made my own theory I call 20/60/20.
The bottom 20% of any skill/trade/degree whatever, are absolutely worthless and will have a near to impossible time being employed simply because they lack anything that gives them an edge over anybody in anything. There will always be an applicant who will be better than them, even if its just a little thing like six months work experience, except if they are extremely lucky. But then they have to struggle to stay employed.
This is why you shouldnt do something you know you will be horrible at. Problems with math at school? Definetly no Mathematics/Physics and you should really think about that engineering degree.
Then there is the main 60% body, these are average drones who compete among each other for various things, be it money, prestige or employment itself. By definition there is not much to say about this bunch, they are average, have upsides and downsides which make it win/loss consideration for any employee. They should usually find employment in reasonable spots, except if there is really a minimal need for them, then they basically form a bottom 80%, as seen in "the liberal arts". Dont do that if you dont have the social background
Not every engineer, for example, can be a genius and there is a need for mediocer emplyees to fill the ranks.
Then there is the top 20%. These are the chads of your trade, they have an outstanding CV, lots practical experience as well as good grades. They may happen to compete among each other but it really doesnt matter that much as they will always find employment everywhere. These are the people who can go where they want to whatever company they want, they will always be first to get a job and there is no way you can compete.
Take my cousin, first he did training as an electrician. Then he became an officer at the Infantry. Now he completed his A levels and is about to study something with electricity, in his spare time he does software and hardware related things that I am to low IQ to understand and he isnt some nerd tard, good luck competing with that.
Examples;
McDonalds Burger Flipper/Restaurant Cook/Gordon Ramsay
Codemonkey/Software developer/IT SDE at Microsoft
Unemployed/Planmonkey/Engineer at Boeing
NCO/Officer/Senior Officer
If you are a wizard and you arent part of the upper 20% in which case you should fuck off you are done for. Being socially inept without outstanding skills puts you in a sever disadvantage and a chad in the bottom 20% might even beat you because he is more "convincing". There are winners and losers in this economy, and we are the losers.
The truth is, this game was rigged from the beginning.
Note that I am a 22 year old NEET, this is just from my experience looking for a job/training.
I suspect unemployment might be as high as 10%, if you DONT count fake makeshift jobs or long term "students". Unemployment rate is faked by excluding people in "programs", wageslaving at minimum wage, age or "disability", looking at you. And thats the overal rate, we wizkids are fucked.
I dont really have any family but i lucked out with a job after they passed away. My father owned a cleaning company. Now own it, i work by myself over night. I employ 4 other people but i barely see/talk to them. I make very good money but i live a very lonely life
I dont really have any family but i lucked out with a job after they passed away. My father owned a cleaning company. Now own it, i work by myself over night. I employ 4 other people but i barely see/talk to them. I make very good money but i live a very lonely life
>>157042
>Nice, so we should listen to you then?
Saying you SHOULD or SHOULDN'T get a degree is pretty reductive and ignores the multitude of possible variables.
All I'm saying is that you should think about those variables before you decide either way. You're just saying to blindly trust your expertise in the market of every degree in every possible location.
I lucked out in that specific job, but before that I didn't blindly go into CS because I wanted to make vidya or heard it was "big", it directly hit the sweet spot in terms of interest, capabilities and market worth.
>It really isn't as easy as you try to make it sound, but you wouldn't know anyway. No point in trying to explain this to some uppity college boy/ naive forum browser without firsthand experience, I guess.
There's three choices:
>(a) higher education
>(b) skill/trade training
>(c) minimum wage
If (a) doesn't work out, the only logical choice is (b). I'm not saying it's easy, just better than being a minimum wage slave.
The goal in the market is to acquire skills and higher education is seriously over-estimated when it comes to how well it maps the knowledge you gain to actual marketable skills. The advantage in trade jobs is that what you learn is what you're going to be doing, it's a direct mapping to what is being desired in market place. In that way it's a better bet than most degrees which have very little to do with what employers want you to be able to do.
>Nice, so we should listen to you then?
Saying you SHOULD or SHOULDN'T get a degree is pretty reductive and ignores the multitude of possible variables.
All I'm saying is that you should think about those variables before you decide either way. You're just saying to blindly trust your expertise in the market of every degree in every possible location.
I lucked out in that specific job, but before that I didn't blindly go into CS because I wanted to make vidya or heard it was "big", it directly hit the sweet spot in terms of interest, capabilities and market worth.
>It really isn't as easy as you try to make it sound, but you wouldn't know anyway. No point in trying to explain this to some uppity college boy/ naive forum browser without firsthand experience, I guess.
There's three choices:
>(a) higher education
>(b) skill/trade training
>(c) minimum wage
If (a) doesn't work out, the only logical choice is (b). I'm not saying it's easy, just better than being a minimum wage slave.
The goal in the market is to acquire skills and higher education is seriously over-estimated when it comes to how well it maps the knowledge you gain to actual marketable skills. The advantage in trade jobs is that what you learn is what you're going to be doing, it's a direct mapping to what is being desired in market place. In that way it's a better bet than most degrees which have very little to do with what employers want you to be able to do.
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It's probably a good idea to do a market analysis to see how easy/hard it is to find internships/apprenticeships and do they pay at all. I finished a maritime University, which is kind of a glorified trade school. It wasn't easy to find internships, but they pay 500€ or more.
Job market depends on the country you're from, but it's not so bad if I consider to quit my job to look for something better and I don't plan to do it right away because I want some time off and they might find something.
But yeah, I agree with the notion to seek trades/labours or go balls deep into something that will always grow like informatics/IT so you are good enough to freelance and to be sought, rather than seek.
Job market depends on the country you're from, but it's not so bad if I consider to quit my job to look for something better and I don't plan to do it right away because I want some time off and they might find something.
But yeah, I agree with the notion to seek trades/labours or go balls deep into something that will always grow like informatics/IT so you are good enough to freelance and to be sought, rather than seek.
>My father owned a cleaning company. Now own it, i work by myself over night. I employ 4 other people but i barely see/talk to them. I make very good money but i live a very lonely life
this site is a fucking joke
"i own and run a company but im reclusive i swear"
this site is a fucking joke
"i own and run a company but im reclusive i swear"
>>157043
>I have made my own theory I call 20/60/20.
Well it's said that the square root of the employees create 50% of the value in a business (or something like that).
>If you are a wizard and you arent part of the upper 20% in which case you should fuck off you are done for. Being socially inept without outstanding skills puts you in a sever disadvantage and a chad in the bottom 20% might even beat you because he is more "convincing".
What's this supposed to mean, that a wizard isn't allowed to have skills or talents of any kind? I am very well above average at my job, if it weren't for that I would probably be cut loose, since I can't entertain people. What I lack in social skills, I have to compensate for in technical skill, unless I want to end up in some really fucking bottom-feeder job. A few years ago I was a neet and thought that I was completely useless at everything, so I see where you're coming from. I signed up for a random trade course and happened to be good at it, something that I would've never thought.
>I suspect unemployment might be as high as 10%, if you DONT count fake makeshift jobs or long term "students". Unemployment rate is faked by excluding people in "programs", wageslaving at minimum wage, age or "disability", looking at you. And thats the overal rate, we wizkids are fucked.
That's why I'm trying to tell wizards how to survive in this fucked system. Hordes of Chads and Stacies that are graduating can't even find work, where do you think that leaves us?
>>157045
>My father owned a cleaning company. Now own it, i work by myself over night.
A business-owner wiz, who would've thought.
>>157046
>Saying you SHOULD or SHOULDN'T get a degree is pretty reductive and ignores the multitude of possible variables.
I'm guessing that there are probably more people going to college/university than trade school or similar things. Just my own guess, but would you call this assumption unreasonable? So, do you even need to do any sort of analysis to realize that you can't put more people in the office (or similar environments) than on the worksite? There probably needs to be way more people on the actual worksite than in the office (unless this economy has gotten way more retarded than what I assume it has).
White collar jobs require much more social skills and socializing than blue collar. You sit around in and office all day next to another person. This is a human, they will expect you to behave like a fellow human being and talk to them. Why the fuck would a person who browses this site want to put themselves in an environment like that? Assuming you can even get the fucking job, because you know, the HR people will put higher demands on you in terms of social skills and superficial stuff since they wouldn't want some fucking mute wizard to be part of their cool little office club.
>I lucked out in that specific job, but before that I didn't blindly go into CS because I wanted to make vidya or heard it was "big", it directly hit the sweet spot in terms of interest, capabilities and market worth.
And how many of your classmates got a job after they graduated?
>The advantage in trade jobs is that what you learn is what you're going to be doing, it's a direct mapping to what is being desired in market place.
That depends on where you live too. The trade school I went to was basically kindergarten compared to the real deal.
>I have made my own theory I call 20/60/20.
Well it's said that the square root of the employees create 50% of the value in a business (or something like that).
>If you are a wizard and you arent part of the upper 20% in which case you should fuck off you are done for. Being socially inept without outstanding skills puts you in a sever disadvantage and a chad in the bottom 20% might even beat you because he is more "convincing".
What's this supposed to mean, that a wizard isn't allowed to have skills or talents of any kind? I am very well above average at my job, if it weren't for that I would probably be cut loose, since I can't entertain people. What I lack in social skills, I have to compensate for in technical skill, unless I want to end up in some really fucking bottom-feeder job. A few years ago I was a neet and thought that I was completely useless at everything, so I see where you're coming from. I signed up for a random trade course and happened to be good at it, something that I would've never thought.
>I suspect unemployment might be as high as 10%, if you DONT count fake makeshift jobs or long term "students". Unemployment rate is faked by excluding people in "programs", wageslaving at minimum wage, age or "disability", looking at you. And thats the overal rate, we wizkids are fucked.
That's why I'm trying to tell wizards how to survive in this fucked system. Hordes of Chads and Stacies that are graduating can't even find work, where do you think that leaves us?
>>157045
>My father owned a cleaning company. Now own it, i work by myself over night.
A business-owner wiz, who would've thought.
>>157046
>Saying you SHOULD or SHOULDN'T get a degree is pretty reductive and ignores the multitude of possible variables.
I'm guessing that there are probably more people going to college/university than trade school or similar things. Just my own guess, but would you call this assumption unreasonable? So, do you even need to do any sort of analysis to realize that you can't put more people in the office (or similar environments) than on the worksite? There probably needs to be way more people on the actual worksite than in the office (unless this economy has gotten way more retarded than what I assume it has).
White collar jobs require much more social skills and socializing than blue collar. You sit around in and office all day next to another person. This is a human, they will expect you to behave like a fellow human being and talk to them. Why the fuck would a person who browses this site want to put themselves in an environment like that? Assuming you can even get the fucking job, because you know, the HR people will put higher demands on you in terms of social skills and superficial stuff since they wouldn't want some fucking mute wizard to be part of their cool little office club.
>I lucked out in that specific job, but before that I didn't blindly go into CS because I wanted to make vidya or heard it was "big", it directly hit the sweet spot in terms of interest, capabilities and market worth.
And how many of your classmates got a job after they graduated?
>The advantage in trade jobs is that what you learn is what you're going to be doing, it's a direct mapping to what is being desired in market place.
That depends on where you live too. The trade school I went to was basically kindergarten compared to the real deal.
>>157052
>Why the fuck would a person who browses this site want to put themselves in an environment like that?
Heh. Someone hasn't been glancing over the wageslave threads.
>Why the fuck would a person who browses this site want to put themselves in an environment like that?
Heh. Someone hasn't been glancing over the wageslave threads.
>>157053
>Heh. Someone hasn't been glancing over the wageslave threads.
What do you mean? I've seen people posting about bottom-feeding office jobs (data entry and stuff). I assume they work in some ginormous office where they can dissapear, otherwise I don't understand how they aren't getting sacked. You're expected to be social when you're at work, unless it's some sort of giant corporation/industry where you're just a number.
>Heh. Someone hasn't been glancing over the wageslave threads.
What do you mean? I've seen people posting about bottom-feeding office jobs (data entry and stuff). I assume they work in some ginormous office where they can dissapear, otherwise I don't understand how they aren't getting sacked. You're expected to be social when you're at work, unless it's some sort of giant corporation/industry where you're just a number.
Implying remote software jobs don't exist.
It really depends where you live. I fucking hate my country and needed degree to escape. I also managed to avoid doing anything social during the degree.
Americans obviously can't do it because of the absurd debt. People in glorious european countries can get free degrees and make get years of a way to appease parents/society, postponing wageslavery
It really depends where you live. I fucking hate my country and needed degree to escape. I also managed to avoid doing anything social during the degree.
Americans obviously can't do it because of the absurd debt. People in glorious european countries can get free degrees and make get years of a way to appease parents/society, postponing wageslavery
>>157052
>What's this supposed to mean
It means that if you arent some prodigy excelling in your subject AND you are a wizard you are fucked.
>I am very well above average at my job, if it weren't for that I would probably be cut loose, since I can't entertain people.
Thats what I am saying, if you werent above average you wouldnt have a job.
>>157055
>People in glorious european countries can get free degrees and make get years of a way to appease parents/society, postponing wageslavery
Read the thread, those fancy degrees are "free" because they arent worth shit.
>What's this supposed to mean
It means that if you arent some prodigy excelling in your subject AND you are a wizard you are fucked.
>I am very well above average at my job, if it weren't for that I would probably be cut loose, since I can't entertain people.
Thats what I am saying, if you werent above average you wouldnt have a job.
>>157055
>People in glorious european countries can get free degrees and make get years of a way to appease parents/society, postponing wageslavery
Read the thread, those fancy degrees are "free" because they arent worth shit.
It's not like blue collar jobs are any better. They're lousy with cheap immigrant laborers and get hit way fucking harder with the economic boom and bust cycle because they depend on white collar people having lots of disposable income to hire them. The next economic depression is about to begin any moment, and yes, that's depression, not recession. We are headed back to conditions we haven't seen since the great depression. There are so many parallels right now in the current financial markets and the lead up to the great depression it's fucking terrifying. When it happens all shit is going to break loose in the US. There are going to be so many fucking domestic terrorist groups and militias with military grade weapons doing all sorts of killing. I have seen absolutely no contingency plan put in place for what's coming. My contingency plan is a fucking rope around my neck. Honestly the only question now is how long it will take this house of cards to come toppling down. They might just keep printing money and adding more to the debt for quite a while until it crashes the entire global economy and forces people to realize that using the dollar as world reserve currency was a mistake. It will end the dominance of the dollar and US in general. The moment the US empire falls apart is coming soon. I can smell it.
Nonsense ideas. Work sucks. If you want money learn investing, business or become an 'entertainer'(monetize a hobby in some way).
>>157088
>It's not like blue collar jobs are any better.
It's not like you can pick and choose in this world.
>The next economic depression is about to begin any moment, and yes, that's depression, not recession.
Maybe, who knows.
>>157089
>Nonsense ideas.
Realistic ideas.
>If you want money learn investing, business or become an 'entertainer'(monetize a hobby in some way).
Unrealistic ideas for most people.
>It's not like blue collar jobs are any better.
It's not like you can pick and choose in this world.
>The next economic depression is about to begin any moment, and yes, that's depression, not recession.
Maybe, who knows.
>>157089
>Nonsense ideas.
Realistic ideas.
>If you want money learn investing, business or become an 'entertainer'(monetize a hobby in some way).
Unrealistic ideas for most people.
I dropped out of college because I'm stupid and I hate it. Thankfully it was free for me.
I want to get into IT now and am studying for the comptia a+ cert but it seems lots of people say the IT industry is dying. Is IT worth getting into if you're stupid and too autistic to do customer service/helpdesk shit?
I want to get into IT now and am studying for the comptia a+ cert but it seems lots of people say the IT industry is dying. Is IT worth getting into if you're stupid and too autistic to do customer service/helpdesk shit?
>>157042
Mainstream memes? How about I decide for myself instead of listening to the likes of you or them.
Mainstream memes? How about I decide for myself instead of listening to the likes of you or them.
>>157023
Most of the people here are either shutins or early 20's kids with no life experience repeating stuff they heard on other imageboards. Either way, their opinions should not be taken seriously because they don't have the requisite life experience and "wisdom" to give meaningful advice.
Most of the people here are either shutins or early 20's kids with no life experience repeating stuff they heard on other imageboards. Either way, their opinions should not be taken seriously because they don't have the requisite life experience and "wisdom" to give meaningful advice.
>>157108
Bullshit, so who has the "experience" to give you advice? Boomers?
Unsucessfull people give better advice than people who were lucky and jumped into a comfy job or had their friend (very wizardly) organise it for them, because those people just live in a bubble of survivorship bias.
>>157106
Smart people work on software or repairs, dumb people do the customer service and design.
No.
Bullshit, so who has the "experience" to give you advice? Boomers?
Unsucessfull people give better advice than people who were lucky and jumped into a comfy job or had their friend (very wizardly) organise it for them, because those people just live in a bubble of survivorship bias.
>>157106
Smart people work on software or repairs, dumb people do the customer service and design.
No.
>>157111
No rules were broke in that post. Some wizzies just have luckier circumstances, whether it's cashing in large neetbux or getting a cozy job through connections. It is what is.
No rules were broke in that post. Some wizzies just have luckier circumstances, whether it's cashing in large neetbux or getting a cozy job through connections. It is what is.
>>157123
the “connection” here is a friend, not a family member but a friend, and the word was spoilered so you can tell he knew it was a rather suspicious “detail” to mention here
but yeah, why even bother with such precautions at this point?
the “connection” here is a friend, not a family member but a friend, and the word was spoilered so you can tell he knew it was a rather suspicious “detail” to mention here
but yeah, why even bother with such precautions at this point?
I'm from some third world hellhole tropical country that is almost impossible live decently if you are not into STEM, law or study to be a medic. I'm absurdly bad with STEM, too socially awkward to study law and I'm thinking about be electronics technician or get driving licenses for cars and motorcycles and be a mechanic.
Brazil is the absolute hell for wizards and I feel really bad because I really wanted get a CS degree and try leave my country, but since I'm bad with math I'm cursed to live my entire life here. Feels bad.
Brazil is the absolute hell for wizards and I feel really bad because I really wanted get a CS degree and try leave my country, but since I'm bad with math I'm cursed to live my entire life here. Feels bad.
>>157125
There are no rules against having friends or admitting to it. I assume it was spoilered to protect the delicate sensibilities of posters like you. It's atypical for a wiz to have friends but ultimately still allowed so either complain to the management or ask yourself why you're so asshurt at others doing better than you.
There are no rules against having friends or admitting to it. I assume it was spoilered to protect the delicate sensibilities of posters like you. It's atypical for a wiz to have friends but ultimately still allowed so either complain to the management or ask yourself why you're so asshurt at others doing better than you.
>>157111
>>157127
>>157129
OP of that post here. I assumed people were going to be triggered by that word but holy shit, having a couple friends or acquaintances doesn't make you a normalfag. The guy in question knows me from high school and gives me gigs because he knows I'm skilled. It's not like I'm hanging out with this dude at the bar or club.
The disadvantage in not having "connections" is that you have to go through a process of somehow demonstrating your skill set. In IT, that's fairly easy to do even for wizardly types because your work speaks for you. You show someone your github or you solve a couple algorithmic exercises on a whiteboard.
Also, just because I lucked out in this specific instance, doesn't defeat my stated line of thinking. Uni degrees and their worth are a variable thing dependent on time, location and the person having it (you have to be reasonably good at it and not hate the work). My whole point is to not listen to anyone that makes it a black-and-white thing, like OP. I am not recommending anyone to go through higher education unless they can handle it and have reasonably good prospects for it, things I have no clue about it and which depend on each man's circumstances.
>>157127
>>157129
OP of that post here. I assumed people were going to be triggered by that word but holy shit, having a couple friends or acquaintances doesn't make you a normalfag. The guy in question knows me from high school and gives me gigs because he knows I'm skilled. It's not like I'm hanging out with this dude at the bar or club.
The disadvantage in not having "connections" is that you have to go through a process of somehow demonstrating your skill set. In IT, that's fairly easy to do even for wizardly types because your work speaks for you. You show someone your github or you solve a couple algorithmic exercises on a whiteboard.
Also, just because I lucked out in this specific instance, doesn't defeat my stated line of thinking. Uni degrees and their worth are a variable thing dependent on time, location and the person having it (you have to be reasonably good at it and not hate the work). My whole point is to not listen to anyone that makes it a black-and-white thing, like OP. I am not recommending anyone to go through higher education unless they can handle it and have reasonably good prospects for it, things I have no clue about it and which depend on each man's circumstances.
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wizchan, year 2020
>yes I am married but I have never had sex with my wife so it's totally okay for me to post here!
>It's atypical for a wiz to be married but ultimately still allowed so either complain to the management or ask yourself why you're so asshurt at others doing better than you.
>yes I am married but I have never had sex with my wife so it's totally okay for me to post here!
>It's atypical for a wiz to be married but ultimately still allowed so either complain to the management or ask yourself why you're so asshurt at others doing better than you.
>>157137
Having sex is the definitive line between norman and crab. The line between norman/crab and wiz is having as well as wantingfriends.
Having sex is the definitive line between norman and crab. The line between norman/crab and wiz is having as well as wantingfriends.
>>157139
Highly unlikely edge cases aren't an argument. Having anything to do with succubi is against the fundamental wiz doctrine of "disregard succubi; acquire magic" while having friends is just one of the way wizzies can differ naturally, like economically or intellectually.
Your mistake is equating all social relations to a single type - the romantic kind. But it's clear that you can have any number of relations with other people, like one where you work for each other's economic benefit, enjoyment or simply for the purpose of a transaction.
>>157140
Being a crab is about being /involuntarily/ celibate, so the line between wiz and crab is about wanting sex, which is consistent with the wizardly doctrine of disregarding succubi. Friends are a completely neutral thing since wizards themselves can be friends, and this doesn't go against any wizard doctrine.
Highly unlikely edge cases aren't an argument. Having anything to do with succubi is against the fundamental wiz doctrine of "disregard succubi; acquire magic" while having friends is just one of the way wizzies can differ naturally, like economically or intellectually.
Your mistake is equating all social relations to a single type - the romantic kind. But it's clear that you can have any number of relations with other people, like one where you work for each other's economic benefit, enjoyment or simply for the purpose of a transaction.
>>157140
Being a crab is about being /involuntarily/ celibate, so the line between wiz and crab is about wanting sex, which is consistent with the wizardly doctrine of disregarding succubi. Friends are a completely neutral thing since wizards themselves can be friends, and this doesn't go against any wizard doctrine.
meta thread
go to meta and make another thread to debate what being a wizard is
every user will give his own definition describing his life
hikkis won't accept anyone who goes outside
neets won't accept anyone with a job/academics
old wizards won't accept anyone below their age
young wizards won't accept anyone below their age
etc
go to meta and make another thread to debate what being a wizard is
every user will give his own definition describing his life
hikkis won't accept anyone who goes outside
neets won't accept anyone with a job/academics
old wizards won't accept anyone below their age
young wizards won't accept anyone below their age
etc
>>157142
The reason all of those are bullshit is because they can't cite an official source or interpretation of an official source that will back it. Ultimately, what those groups find acceptable is their own personal opinion and hence irrelevant to who is able to post.
The reason all of those are bullshit is because they can't cite an official source or interpretation of an official source that will back it. Ultimately, what those groups find acceptable is their own personal opinion and hence irrelevant to who is able to post.
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>>157141
>But it's clear that you can have any number of relations with other people, like one where you work for each other's economic benefit, enjoyment or simply for the purpose of a transaction.
>But it's clear that you can have any number of relations with other people, like one where you work for each other's economic benefit, enjoyment or simply for the purpose of a transaction.
>>157143
The only official source are the wizchan rules which everyone feels are insufficient you pea-brain F*CKTARD.
The only official source are the wizchan rules which everyone feels are insufficient you pea-brain F*CKTARD.
>>157145
Just because everyone wants to shoehorn their retarded beliefs everywhere, doesn't mean we should let them. It's entirely clear what wizardry is and what it is not. If you want a more selective secret club, make it yourself and invite all your fr- oh, right.
>F*CKTARD
I'm sorry kiddo but this is a site for adults and we're allowed to swear you know?
Just because everyone wants to shoehorn their retarded beliefs everywhere, doesn't mean we should let them. It's entirely clear what wizardry is and what it is not. If you want a more selective secret club, make it yourself and invite all your fr- oh, right.
>F*CKTARD
I'm sorry kiddo but this is a site for adults and we're allowed to swear you know?
>>157013
the bigest mistake in my life was going to the collage. I wasted years there and spended a lot of money and in the end I failed.
now I have nothing
the bigest mistake in my life was going to the collage. I wasted years there and spended a lot of money and in the end I failed.
now I have nothing
>>157149
How expensive can it be to buy some glue and make a decent composition? Pretty sure they teach it in kindergarden art class.
How expensive can it be to buy some glue and make a decent composition? Pretty sure they teach it in kindergarden art class.
My plan is to just do pizza delivery for as long as possible, and buy a cheap mobile home with land with that money. Everyone i see retire from a manual career, dies after 3 months.
>>157020
holy fucking shit, this cuck mentality. He bashes "marxism" while advocating everyone jump through these specific hoops to get a position as a slave (who works with people's feces all day because that's "easier" to get) and that's held up on its own as an admirable goal without any examination, just everyone should want to be a slave and if you work hard enough you too can be a slave!
Normalfaggotry has gotten completely out of hand. People are doing what society has deemed proper for them without question. People are willing cucks. I can't wait for the next recession when everyone will begin to question shit again. Economic boom times are terrible.
holy fucking shit, this cuck mentality. He bashes "marxism" while advocating everyone jump through these specific hoops to get a position as a slave (who works with people's feces all day because that's "easier" to get) and that's held up on its own as an admirable goal without any examination, just everyone should want to be a slave and if you work hard enough you too can be a slave!
Normalfaggotry has gotten completely out of hand. People are doing what society has deemed proper for them without question. People are willing cucks. I can't wait for the next recession when everyone will begin to question shit again. Economic boom times are terrible.
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>>157154
You do realize that you would have to work even in a marxist utopia? Even there, people would need someone to fix their shit pipes, kiddo.
I'm sorry you have to contribute to society to survive, but if you're not satisfied with the current system you can fuck off to Venezuela or North Korea if they'll have you.
Or better yet, fuck off to the wilderness and you'll realize why economics exists in the first place - because resources are scarce and you can't satisfy every single snowflake's wishes, there has to be some kind of system that uses resources most effectively (one of which is the free market which blows out any planned economy immediately).
As much as wageslaving sucks, the current system is the least of all possible evils.
You do realize that you would have to work even in a marxist utopia? Even there, people would need someone to fix their shit pipes, kiddo.
I'm sorry you have to contribute to society to survive, but if you're not satisfied with the current system you can fuck off to Venezuela or North Korea if they'll have you.
Or better yet, fuck off to the wilderness and you'll realize why economics exists in the first place - because resources are scarce and you can't satisfy every single snowflake's wishes, there has to be some kind of system that uses resources most effectively (one of which is the free market which blows out any planned economy immediately).
As much as wageslaving sucks, the current system is the least of all possible evils.
>>157159
That isn't true. No one knows how an actual communist society will work out but you likely wont have to work at all since communist can only happen in post scarcity societies, which we already live in. One of the reasons I'm a communist is because we already live in a post scarcity society, we grow enough food to feed the world but most of it is wasted, we have more homes than homeless people by a large margin, and we work 40 hours a week for our bosses benefit. Under this system we create so much waste through surplus value that is never used because people have no money to buy it and consumerism culture that only benefits the capitalist that we work for, not the worker. Some people work even more than 40 hours and they can barely afford to scrape by, not to mention the humiliation and degradation of the worker - employee relationship, not so different from masters and slaves.
There are many different types of socialists, but a lot of us believe in use and occupancy rights, where if you can use something entirely yourself then you own it. So if there is a house and no one is using it, then you can simply move in and own it, and you'll be guaranteed food in communism. Depending on the type of socialism you're talking about, you may have to work but you will own your work and not be a slave so most of the negative mental affects you get from working in a capatalist system will be gone (of course there are still normies but no longer being a wageslave is a massive improvement in quality of life). We have made machines and procedures to allow us to become incredibly efficient as well and since our labor is no longer exploited by capitalists we will see a considerably reduced amount of working hours. Useless industries that contribute nothing and the workers have no joy in taking part in will vanish and the labor power freed up from those past capitalist industries can be used in the industries that are more important to people, like building schools or hospitals and the added labor will also contribute to the lessened working hours so you can focus more on living your life.
Many other fellow commies I've talked to agreed that there would be neets, but it wouldn't matter because we are so efficient at producing essentials that they won't cause any harm to the system, and since most people are normals who like to work and socialize they will participate in the essential industries that haven't been automated yet. As well as that, there will likely be an artist revolution since so many artists that couldn't practice or focus on art under a capitalist system would now be able to without worrying about starving. This goes for science/philosophy and video games too.
Venezuela is not socialist and while I'm not a state socialist, north korea has embargoes on it from every capitalist country in the world and so it has to mostly be self sufficient. If you look at the history of state socialist or any socialist revolutions you will see a combined effort from capitalist shitholes to undermine any progress so they can convince people like yourself that socialism doesn't work so a revolution never happens in our own country. I'm not sure how well north korea is doing because I can't find an unbiased source of information about it anywhere (although I haven't done much research on it at all), if you look at cuba, despite being embargo destroying its trade relations with every country, they still have one of the best healthcare systems in the world and relative to their capitalist neighbors who are all dirt poor with high drug crimes rates, they are doing very well. The ussr came out from being a dirt poor feudalist society to the 2nd world power in less than 50 years. Although I'm not a state socialist, I can't see why you capitalists love this system so much when considering all the efforts by capitalist countries to destroy socialist progress and the state socialists countries unique circumstances (like north Korea's bad geography to grow food), they still do far better than capitalist countries.
Also where is your evidence that free market is better than planned economy? We have homeless people and empty homes, enough food to feed everyone but people starve and go hungry and famines exist, every 10 years there is a financial crises and wealth gets further concentrated into few hands, shrinking middle class as a result, destruction of the environment for profits leading to a climate crisis, useless industries like advertising that are only used to brainwash people like you that GoMuN1sm is evil and you should buy their crap you don't need, and alienation from our labor which is why the wageslave general is one of the most popular threads on dep. Including debt slaves. Capitalism loves slaves and discrimination, it has brought chattel slavery, then wageslavery, now debt slaves too, racism, sexism. And free markets have never existed except if you're thinking in places with no government like somalia and that isn't working out too well for them. Unless you defined free market as some type of subsidy/tarrif to businesses which is what I see a lot of you bootlickers do, but that is still govermnent intervention and thus not a free market. Maybe it's possible in an anarcho capitalist shithole though or when jesus comes back to earth.
Wizards and most people would only benefit from communism and the only people who would lose are the guys with all the wealth right now. Many people believe cold war propaganda and lies about communism but if you want to learn anything about it I'll recommend you some literature or educational guides about it. If communism wasn't going to help neets/wageslave wizards then I wouldn't support it, but everything I've read about it only shows it to be much better than the wageslavery shit we currently live in.
That isn't true. No one knows how an actual communist society will work out but you likely wont have to work at all since communist can only happen in post scarcity societies, which we already live in. One of the reasons I'm a communist is because we already live in a post scarcity society, we grow enough food to feed the world but most of it is wasted, we have more homes than homeless people by a large margin, and we work 40 hours a week for our bosses benefit. Under this system we create so much waste through surplus value that is never used because people have no money to buy it and consumerism culture that only benefits the capitalist that we work for, not the worker. Some people work even more than 40 hours and they can barely afford to scrape by, not to mention the humiliation and degradation of the worker - employee relationship, not so different from masters and slaves.
There are many different types of socialists, but a lot of us believe in use and occupancy rights, where if you can use something entirely yourself then you own it. So if there is a house and no one is using it, then you can simply move in and own it, and you'll be guaranteed food in communism. Depending on the type of socialism you're talking about, you may have to work but you will own your work and not be a slave so most of the negative mental affects you get from working in a capatalist system will be gone (of course there are still normies but no longer being a wageslave is a massive improvement in quality of life). We have made machines and procedures to allow us to become incredibly efficient as well and since our labor is no longer exploited by capitalists we will see a considerably reduced amount of working hours. Useless industries that contribute nothing and the workers have no joy in taking part in will vanish and the labor power freed up from those past capitalist industries can be used in the industries that are more important to people, like building schools or hospitals and the added labor will also contribute to the lessened working hours so you can focus more on living your life.
Many other fellow commies I've talked to agreed that there would be neets, but it wouldn't matter because we are so efficient at producing essentials that they won't cause any harm to the system, and since most people are normals who like to work and socialize they will participate in the essential industries that haven't been automated yet. As well as that, there will likely be an artist revolution since so many artists that couldn't practice or focus on art under a capitalist system would now be able to without worrying about starving. This goes for science/philosophy and video games too.
Venezuela is not socialist and while I'm not a state socialist, north korea has embargoes on it from every capitalist country in the world and so it has to mostly be self sufficient. If you look at the history of state socialist or any socialist revolutions you will see a combined effort from capitalist shitholes to undermine any progress so they can convince people like yourself that socialism doesn't work so a revolution never happens in our own country. I'm not sure how well north korea is doing because I can't find an unbiased source of information about it anywhere (although I haven't done much research on it at all), if you look at cuba, despite being embargo destroying its trade relations with every country, they still have one of the best healthcare systems in the world and relative to their capitalist neighbors who are all dirt poor with high drug crimes rates, they are doing very well. The ussr came out from being a dirt poor feudalist society to the 2nd world power in less than 50 years. Although I'm not a state socialist, I can't see why you capitalists love this system so much when considering all the efforts by capitalist countries to destroy socialist progress and the state socialists countries unique circumstances (like north Korea's bad geography to grow food), they still do far better than capitalist countries.
Also where is your evidence that free market is better than planned economy? We have homeless people and empty homes, enough food to feed everyone but people starve and go hungry and famines exist, every 10 years there is a financial crises and wealth gets further concentrated into few hands, shrinking middle class as a result, destruction of the environment for profits leading to a climate crisis, useless industries like advertising that are only used to brainwash people like you that GoMuN1sm is evil and you should buy their crap you don't need, and alienation from our labor which is why the wageslave general is one of the most popular threads on dep. Including debt slaves. Capitalism loves slaves and discrimination, it has brought chattel slavery, then wageslavery, now debt slaves too, racism, sexism. And free markets have never existed except if you're thinking in places with no government like somalia and that isn't working out too well for them. Unless you defined free market as some type of subsidy/tarrif to businesses which is what I see a lot of you bootlickers do, but that is still govermnent intervention and thus not a free market. Maybe it's possible in an anarcho capitalist shithole though or when jesus comes back to earth.
Wizards and most people would only benefit from communism and the only people who would lose are the guys with all the wealth right now. Many people believe cold war propaganda and lies about communism but if you want to learn anything about it I'll recommend you some literature or educational guides about it. If communism wasn't going to help neets/wageslave wizards then I wouldn't support it, but everything I've read about it only shows it to be much better than the wageslavery shit we currently live in.
>>157159
yes, having to work is not my problem with the system. The problem is that you can be put out of work by no fault of your own and then they take your house if you can't find another job. Everyone is viciously competing against each other for their slave positions, it makes an unneccesarily cutthroat world. Competition is not the panacea people claim it is, it has tons of downsides.
yes, having to work is not my problem with the system. The problem is that you can be put out of work by no fault of your own and then they take your house if you can't find another job. Everyone is viciously competing against each other for their slave positions, it makes an unneccesarily cutthroat world. Competition is not the panacea people claim it is, it has tons of downsides.
>>157165
As unfortunate as it is competition is the natural order of this world. You can't circumvent human nature
As unfortunate as it is competition is the natural order of this world. You can't circumvent human nature
>>157164
>we live in a post-scarcity world
Sure man, just take all of the 1%'s money and assets and we can feed all of Africa :)
>communism hasn't been tried yet
Yawn.
>where is your evidence that free market is better than planned economy?
What's faster? A group of people in a bureaucracy that need to set the price and quantity of everything produced or something like a distributed system like a free market economy that sets the price of goods according to the dynamic forces of supply and demand and efficiently allocates resources to where they are most needed.
>>157165
It's ironic that you use the word "slave" and yet you fail to realize that a communist society is only possible under an authoritarian boot. However flawed the current system is, it's still better than being a bootlicker by an entire margin.
Also, competition is human nature. You can't eliminate it unless you have post-scarcity, but that's a pipe dream.
>we live in a post-scarcity world
Sure man, just take all of the 1%'s money and assets and we can feed all of Africa :)
>communism hasn't been tried yet
Yawn.
>where is your evidence that free market is better than planned economy?
What's faster? A group of people in a bureaucracy that need to set the price and quantity of everything produced or something like a distributed system like a free market economy that sets the price of goods according to the dynamic forces of supply and demand and efficiently allocates resources to where they are most needed.
>>157165
It's ironic that you use the word "slave" and yet you fail to realize that a communist society is only possible under an authoritarian boot. However flawed the current system is, it's still better than being a bootlicker by an entire margin.
Also, competition is human nature. You can't eliminate it unless you have post-scarcity, but that's a pipe dream.
>>157167
Nah he's right that we are in a post scarcity society. Im all for competition as its good for innovation. But at this point we can at least provide basic shelter and food for those in whatever western country who simply cant compete. Because a lot of people just cant cut the mustard. This whole idea of feeding yourself by the sweat of your brow is what we've been trying to advance ourselves past.
Nah he's right that we are in a post scarcity society. Im all for competition as its good for innovation. But at this point we can at least provide basic shelter and food for those in whatever western country who simply cant compete. Because a lot of people just cant cut the mustard. This whole idea of feeding yourself by the sweat of your brow is what we've been trying to advance ourselves past.
>>157164
The hilarious thing is that the OG capitalists weren't so much against economic planning or central planning. Central planning in 1800 would have been a technological impossibility. Indeed, the capitalist firm itself is just a planned economy, and the centralization of capital into firms that could plan is precisely why capitalism is able to produce so much shit. It's not the magic of competition that makes capitalism productive so much as the removal of feudal-era obligations and trade barriers that lead the feudal lords to be in constant conflict with any firm that can be established.
The myth of a "perpetual utopian free market capitalism" is something that developed much later, as an ideologically motivated response to the growth of socialist movements. It's complete nonsense, and basically no meaningful political movement ever embraced such policies. They have always been a sop, and anyone who believes in such things is a damned fool.
I'm no socialist and the USSR had way too many problems to want to emulate that, but something will have to happen in the near future once the US dollar shits the bed, unless Americans want to reach Zimbabwae-tier dysfunction. I don't see capitalism of the form that dominates today surviving much longer, and I don't see a return to pure barbarism (as the "an"caps want) as something that will happen. There will be a new system, of that I am certain, but I have a bad feeling we won't like it.
The hilarious thing is that the OG capitalists weren't so much against economic planning or central planning. Central planning in 1800 would have been a technological impossibility. Indeed, the capitalist firm itself is just a planned economy, and the centralization of capital into firms that could plan is precisely why capitalism is able to produce so much shit. It's not the magic of competition that makes capitalism productive so much as the removal of feudal-era obligations and trade barriers that lead the feudal lords to be in constant conflict with any firm that can be established.
The myth of a "perpetual utopian free market capitalism" is something that developed much later, as an ideologically motivated response to the growth of socialist movements. It's complete nonsense, and basically no meaningful political movement ever embraced such policies. They have always been a sop, and anyone who believes in such things is a damned fool.
I'm no socialist and the USSR had way too many problems to want to emulate that, but something will have to happen in the near future once the US dollar shits the bed, unless Americans want to reach Zimbabwae-tier dysfunction. I don't see capitalism of the form that dominates today surviving much longer, and I don't see a return to pure barbarism (as the "an"caps want) as something that will happen. There will be a new system, of that I am certain, but I have a bad feeling we won't like it.
>>157179
>There will be a new system, of that I am certain, but I have a bad feeling we won't like it.
I'm going to have to agree with you on that. I believe by 2030 we will be getting a glimpse of that.
>There will be a new system, of that I am certain, but I have a bad feeling we won't like it.
I'm going to have to agree with you on that. I believe by 2030 we will be getting a glimpse of that.
Post-scarcity can't exist if breeders exist. It's impossible. We could have entered post-scarcity any time we wanted in the past 50 years but the population keeps expanding to consume the resources available.
> when I read about wizards being in university or college
So you've never been to university or college and think you know enough about it to give advice to other people? Not trying to be a dick, but this is the general impression I get from reading this thread. A whole lot of inexperienced people trying to expose their Wizdom from warped analyses.
Statistically, degrees are relevant for people with less than a few years of experience in the workplace, but after a certain point they stop being useful indicators of success. That's why companies like Google can look past applicants without degrees in some cases. It's not limited to Google tho and you'll find that tech companies in general don't care about degrees.
Going to have to also argue against the threads thesis that you need friends / family / connections to land a job, or live in a certain place, or be a genius wtf. At no time in history has it been easier to be a wizard and find employment than it is today. If you can pick up a useful tech skill you can land a remote position from any where. Check out:
angel.co
remoteok.io
stack overflow careers and so on
Many companies now have completely remote options so there's a lot of places to apply to. You still have to compete with other applicants. But the competition isn't based on a social ladder… It's based mostly on your skill-set as evidenced by your portfolio. If you can use a computer you can almost certainly teach yourself a useful skill and land one of these jobs.
If you learned from Art of Computer Programming by Knuth, you could work at any tech company in the world. But it turns out its easier to make up a strawman villain, call him "Chad", and blame him for everything than it is to pick up a book and learn something.
The majority of people who apply to software dev jobs can't even sort a list. But I suppose that's rocket science and I have to be a genius for that? Oh woe, poor me. Chad is always getting everything. I simply can't compete in this big, bad world. Better post another thread about how working and studying is pointless and wonder why I'm miserable. Yes, I have it all figured out.
So you've never been to university or college and think you know enough about it to give advice to other people? Not trying to be a dick, but this is the general impression I get from reading this thread. A whole lot of inexperienced people trying to expose their Wizdom from warped analyses.
Statistically, degrees are relevant for people with less than a few years of experience in the workplace, but after a certain point they stop being useful indicators of success. That's why companies like Google can look past applicants without degrees in some cases. It's not limited to Google tho and you'll find that tech companies in general don't care about degrees.
Going to have to also argue against the threads thesis that you need friends / family / connections to land a job, or live in a certain place, or be a genius wtf. At no time in history has it been easier to be a wizard and find employment than it is today. If you can pick up a useful tech skill you can land a remote position from any where. Check out:
angel.co
remoteok.io
stack overflow careers and so on
Many companies now have completely remote options so there's a lot of places to apply to. You still have to compete with other applicants. But the competition isn't based on a social ladder… It's based mostly on your skill-set as evidenced by your portfolio. If you can use a computer you can almost certainly teach yourself a useful skill and land one of these jobs.
If you learned from Art of Computer Programming by Knuth, you could work at any tech company in the world. But it turns out its easier to make up a strawman villain, call him "Chad", and blame him for everything than it is to pick up a book and learn something.
The majority of people who apply to software dev jobs can't even sort a list. But I suppose that's rocket science and I have to be a genius for that? Oh woe, poor me. Chad is always getting everything. I simply can't compete in this big, bad world. Better post another thread about how working and studying is pointless and wonder why I'm miserable. Yes, I have it all figured out.
>>157179
>Indeed, the capitalist firm itself is just a planned economy
It's done on a much smaller scale and they only deal with their own assets, hence they take the full risk of their decisions (skin in the game).
Central planning for a country is a retarded idea because: (a) that central body likely doesn't have all the information needed to make good decisions, (b) it can't make them fast enough, (c) having a centralized hub means a single point of failure, (d) the bureaucrats aren't incentivized to make good decisions because they neither benefit nor sustain failure. The free market does all of these better and faster since it's a distributed system.
"Capitalist" aren't against planning, just the kind of large scale authoritarian planning that's done by bureaucrats with no skin in the game.
Consider the Chinese "Great Leap Forward" and how central planning can kill off millions of people because of stupid policies by stupid bureaucrats.
We can all agree that the government makes retarded decisions all the time, and yet you're willing to put the entire economy in their hands because they'll do it better than people with actual skin in the game and a vested interest in their business not failing. In a free market economy, bad businesses fail and don't waste resources, in a planned economy, the company will continue to waste resources and produce goods nobody wants just because at least one retarded fuck thinks it's necessary.
It's just a bad idea all around. There's no way to convince me that we should forgo all decision making to a single entity no matter how efficiently they think they can do it.
>Indeed, the capitalist firm itself is just a planned economy
It's done on a much smaller scale and they only deal with their own assets, hence they take the full risk of their decisions (skin in the game).
Central planning for a country is a retarded idea because: (a) that central body likely doesn't have all the information needed to make good decisions, (b) it can't make them fast enough, (c) having a centralized hub means a single point of failure, (d) the bureaucrats aren't incentivized to make good decisions because they neither benefit nor sustain failure. The free market does all of these better and faster since it's a distributed system.
"Capitalist" aren't against planning, just the kind of large scale authoritarian planning that's done by bureaucrats with no skin in the game.
Consider the Chinese "Great Leap Forward" and how central planning can kill off millions of people because of stupid policies by stupid bureaucrats.
We can all agree that the government makes retarded decisions all the time, and yet you're willing to put the entire economy in their hands because they'll do it better than people with actual skin in the game and a vested interest in their business not failing. In a free market economy, bad businesses fail and don't waste resources, in a planned economy, the company will continue to waste resources and produce goods nobody wants just because at least one retarded fuck thinks it's necessary.
It's just a bad idea all around. There's no way to convince me that we should forgo all decision making to a single entity no matter how efficiently they think they can do it.
>>157186
Just as a counter-factual; there's also soviet planned economy which worked (with massive caveats shaped like mountains of corpses) to bring russia from a mostly peasant-serf kind of country into an industrialised power that could take on the industrial might of Nazi Germany. There was a completely non-capitalist push to export grain in exchange for industrial bootstrapping. It killed millions and millions of people in excruciatingly horrible ways but it worked.
Not really making an argument for central planning here, but generally that its successes are completely at the whim of the nutter in charge.
Just as a counter-factual; there's also soviet planned economy which worked (with massive caveats shaped like mountains of corpses) to bring russia from a mostly peasant-serf kind of country into an industrialised power that could take on the industrial might of Nazi Germany. There was a completely non-capitalist push to export grain in exchange for industrial bootstrapping. It killed millions and millions of people in excruciatingly horrible ways but it worked.
Not really making an argument for central planning here, but generally that its successes are completely at the whim of the nutter in charge.
>>157190
>>157191
Stop seething, lads, and get to work. It has never been easier to learn this shit and anyone with a 100+ IQ can do this job (and you can quote me on that, since I've worked with legit idiots).
https://www.codecademy.com/
>>157191
Stop seething, lads, and get to work. It has never been easier to learn this shit and anyone with a 100+ IQ can do this job (and you can quote me on that, since I've worked with legit idiots).
https://www.codecademy.com/
>>157196
>lol the “learn to code” meme is still alive and well it seems
So let me translate this.
Meme. Analogous to "gene" – something to be passed on widely.
So you're saying that because people talk about something often it must not be true. Haha, xDDD Nice one bro! You're definitely smarter than the majority, those stupid sheeple believing such lies! Hehe xDDD Anything popular is untrue and you know to avoid it unlike -those- people -raises le frowny face- You're special wiz, you've got your own thoughts and ideas. We're dealing with a real, fucking INDEPENDENT thinker here. He avoids MEMES!
For FUCK SAKE
>lol the “learn to code” meme is still alive and well it seems
So let me translate this.
Meme. Analogous to "gene" – something to be passed on widely.
So you're saying that because people talk about something often it must not be true. Haha, xDDD Nice one bro! You're definitely smarter than the majority, those stupid sheeple believing such lies! Hehe xDDD Anything popular is untrue and you know to avoid it unlike -those- people -raises le frowny face- You're special wiz, you've got your own thoughts and ideas. We're dealing with a real, fucking INDEPENDENT thinker here. He avoids MEMES!
For FUCK SAKE
>>157196
just be a mediocre codemonkey competing with trannies, autists, chinks and pajeets man
just be a mediocre codemonkey competing with trannies, autists, chinks and pajeets man
>>157167
>expropriate the wealth
Of course
>whats faster? efficiently allocate resources to where they are most needed
More capitalist lies and propoganda…
I care about if people are getting there needs met or not. In a market economy it is very simple to measure efficieny because only a few variables are considered, mainly profits and cost to produce. The capitalist doesn't have to consider what doesn't cost him, including cost to the environment or the people he enslaves. And only effective demand matters in a market economy, money only goes where other money is, but if there are people in need who have little money then they won't get food if its not profitable even if there is a surplus. Socialists and capitalists measure efficiency differently. What is efficient to a capatalist is not efficient to a socialist because we care about people and capitalists just care about money power and greed. It's not efficient to have more homes than homeless people, to have stress at work to the highest cause for deppression, to have a country of debt slaves working most of their lives to scrape by, and to have enough food to feed the world but still have hungry people and famines. This is all efficient to capitalists though because they only count the gdp and profits, the stock market, they don't care about the distribution of the wealth and social relations of the production process and how it effects people.
You mention the bureaucracy in the ussr planning everything, but that is not the only way to plan an economy. Many libertarian socialists don't want a state and instead want direct democracy, and then people can directly decide on what is/is not produced and how it is done. With the help of modern technology perhaps we can have robots do it or be aided by machine learning technology to predict things, after all companies even try to do this in capitalism but they fail at this because they don't know what other companies are producing, thus overproduction tends to occur and market crashes occur every ten years. I don't know how you can claim this is a good economy system when there are major crashes to the system every couple of years caused by the direct contradiction between capital and labor and the withholding of information between producers. While the ussr was socialist, it had constant unhindered growth and only stopped growing once revisionists got into power and initiated capitalist reforms. This was without any prior experience or guides to go from, meanwhile free market capatalism in amuricah was no where near something you can call stable until a century after it started, and its wealth was built by slaves, child labor, racist/sexist laws to lower workers pay, and imperialism to rob other countries of their resources in the name of 'freedom'. The ussr has no guides when trying planned economy, but yet it only took 50 years to get to being the 2nd world power with capitalist countries on all sides opposing it, meanwhile the usa had to have world war 2 happen for it to become a world power and took over 200 years to do it. Yes, they had bread lines, but whenever I see capitalists pointing at shows a difference in our ideologies at face value, since even if there is a line for bread, at least everyone eats. Capitalists favor maybe 7 choices of bread, but most people can only buy 1 or 2 with little difference and only the wealthy can afford the rest. Also keep in mind that the ussr had much less time to develop than capitalist countries and if it was given time to develop then I bet you would've saw more choices like in the capitalist shitholes. Also the ussr has the most patents in the world and sent the first man to space, it had many inventions, especially during the fucking cold war. Many of the important inventions you see in the usa were directly from govermnent/public research and then privatized by capitalists. Public cost and private profits, something you often see in capitalist shitholes, but the brainwashed bootlickers in these countries can't see that things arent made in a vacuum.
>human nature
Where is you evidence that human nature is to be competitive because I don't believe humans have a set nature and have seen no evidence for it. For thousands and years humans lived together in mutual aid, but we are also an adaptable species that will change our behavior based on the incentives of the environment we live in. In a capitalist economic system you are incentivized to be greedy and compete with other capitalists for resources, this is changing human behavior based on the human made environment enforced by a capitalist government. If we simply changed the environment to entice people to work together democratically through self management and other more libertarian values then you would see 'human nature' change to something else and this has been show in past anarchist revolutions such as in revolutionary Catalonia.
If socialists territories are so horrible and inefficient then why do capitalist states always combine together to block them from trading or send their armies in to destroy them? If they are so horrible then they would fail on their own. They aren't stupid though, but they've been successfully fooling the masses since it began.
>expropriate the wealth
Of course
>whats faster? efficiently allocate resources to where they are most needed
More capitalist lies and propoganda…
I care about if people are getting there needs met or not. In a market economy it is very simple to measure efficieny because only a few variables are considered, mainly profits and cost to produce. The capitalist doesn't have to consider what doesn't cost him, including cost to the environment or the people he enslaves. And only effective demand matters in a market economy, money only goes where other money is, but if there are people in need who have little money then they won't get food if its not profitable even if there is a surplus. Socialists and capitalists measure efficiency differently. What is efficient to a capatalist is not efficient to a socialist because we care about people and capitalists just care about money power and greed. It's not efficient to have more homes than homeless people, to have stress at work to the highest cause for deppression, to have a country of debt slaves working most of their lives to scrape by, and to have enough food to feed the world but still have hungry people and famines. This is all efficient to capitalists though because they only count the gdp and profits, the stock market, they don't care about the distribution of the wealth and social relations of the production process and how it effects people.
You mention the bureaucracy in the ussr planning everything, but that is not the only way to plan an economy. Many libertarian socialists don't want a state and instead want direct democracy, and then people can directly decide on what is/is not produced and how it is done. With the help of modern technology perhaps we can have robots do it or be aided by machine learning technology to predict things, after all companies even try to do this in capitalism but they fail at this because they don't know what other companies are producing, thus overproduction tends to occur and market crashes occur every ten years. I don't know how you can claim this is a good economy system when there are major crashes to the system every couple of years caused by the direct contradiction between capital and labor and the withholding of information between producers. While the ussr was socialist, it had constant unhindered growth and only stopped growing once revisionists got into power and initiated capitalist reforms. This was without any prior experience or guides to go from, meanwhile free market capatalism in amuricah was no where near something you can call stable until a century after it started, and its wealth was built by slaves, child labor, racist/sexist laws to lower workers pay, and imperialism to rob other countries of their resources in the name of 'freedom'. The ussr has no guides when trying planned economy, but yet it only took 50 years to get to being the 2nd world power with capitalist countries on all sides opposing it, meanwhile the usa had to have world war 2 happen for it to become a world power and took over 200 years to do it. Yes, they had bread lines, but whenever I see capitalists pointing at shows a difference in our ideologies at face value, since even if there is a line for bread, at least everyone eats. Capitalists favor maybe 7 choices of bread, but most people can only buy 1 or 2 with little difference and only the wealthy can afford the rest. Also keep in mind that the ussr had much less time to develop than capitalist countries and if it was given time to develop then I bet you would've saw more choices like in the capitalist shitholes. Also the ussr has the most patents in the world and sent the first man to space, it had many inventions, especially during the fucking cold war. Many of the important inventions you see in the usa were directly from govermnent/public research and then privatized by capitalists. Public cost and private profits, something you often see in capitalist shitholes, but the brainwashed bootlickers in these countries can't see that things arent made in a vacuum.
>human nature
Where is you evidence that human nature is to be competitive because I don't believe humans have a set nature and have seen no evidence for it. For thousands and years humans lived together in mutual aid, but we are also an adaptable species that will change our behavior based on the incentives of the environment we live in. In a capitalist economic system you are incentivized to be greedy and compete with other capitalists for resources, this is changing human behavior based on the human made environment enforced by a capitalist government. If we simply changed the environment to entice people to work together democratically through self management and other more libertarian values then you would see 'human nature' change to something else and this has been show in past anarchist revolutions such as in revolutionary Catalonia.
If socialists territories are so horrible and inefficient then why do capitalist states always combine together to block them from trading or send their armies in to destroy them? If they are so horrible then they would fail on their own. They aren't stupid though, but they've been successfully fooling the masses since it began.
>>157200
>because we care about people and
what are kulaks
>With the help of modern technology perhaps we can have robots do it or be aided by machine learning technology to predict things,
"my ideology can only work if helped by high end techonology"
>once revisionists got into power and initiated capitalist reforms
revisionist lenin and his NEP
and revisionist Deng turning china into economic superpower
>once revisionists got into power and initiated capitalist reforms
they did have time, it just collapsed in on itself
>Also the ussr has the most patents in the world and sent the first man to space
yea the technological premier that is russia
>then you would see 'human nature' change to something else and this has been show in past anarchist revolutions such as in revolutionary Catalonia.
your anarchist shithole "devolved"(ie went back to normal) back to markets and classes by themselves far before franco arrived
> why do capitalist states always combine together to block them from trading or send their armies in to destroy them
"WE WILL SET FIRE TO THE WORLD THROUGH REVOLUTIONARY FERVOR AND TEROR!"
"y do kapitaleests dont wanna play nice with us wtf ;_;"
>successfully fooling the masses since it began.
how fucking dumb the masses have to be if theyve been having trade and markets for millenia, damn reagan telling lies to hittites
>because we care about people and
what are kulaks
>With the help of modern technology perhaps we can have robots do it or be aided by machine learning technology to predict things,
"my ideology can only work if helped by high end techonology"
>once revisionists got into power and initiated capitalist reforms
revisionist lenin and his NEP
and revisionist Deng turning china into economic superpower
>once revisionists got into power and initiated capitalist reforms
they did have time, it just collapsed in on itself
>Also the ussr has the most patents in the world and sent the first man to space
yea the technological premier that is russia
>then you would see 'human nature' change to something else and this has been show in past anarchist revolutions such as in revolutionary Catalonia.
your anarchist shithole "devolved"(ie went back to normal) back to markets and classes by themselves far before franco arrived
> why do capitalist states always combine together to block them from trading or send their armies in to destroy them
"WE WILL SET FIRE TO THE WORLD THROUGH REVOLUTIONARY FERVOR AND TEROR!"
"y do kapitaleests dont wanna play nice with us wtf ;_;"
>successfully fooling the masses since it began.
how fucking dumb the masses have to be if theyve been having trade and markets for millenia, damn reagan telling lies to hittites
>>157181
>post scarcity can't exist
We are already in post scarcity. Proof - https://www.worldhunger.org/world-hunger-and-poverty-facts-and-statistics/
It's only a matter of distribution. People who need food but don't have money don't get food. In a market system only people that have money get shit, only effect demand matters, not real human demand.
>ussr had too many problems
Agreed and I hate defending it , but as a socialist I have to fight against cold war lies and bigotry to show this isn't the only possible way to live.
>capitalism in its current form surviving much longer
Most capitalist countries are poor with massive disparities in wealth and people living inhumane lives similar to robots with the lands polluted and fake democracies. The smug anime wiz may be from an imperialist capitalist country and only see's whats in his own life, but even the imperialist capitalist countries are going to shit now with many people financing their lives with debt, working and being more productive for less real wages and a giant disparity between working class and ruling class as a result, also surveillance state and biased media with politically/historically illiterate population. Yeah, with another big change in how we produce things (automation) I there will definitely be another crisis. Maybe we'll descend into feudalism if ubi is used to save this horrible system. The governments are getting increasingly authoritarian and capitalist markets are concentrating wealth into a few multinational mega corporations while the population doesn't care. Most are liberals and just want to reform this system with ubi though so I think we'll probably just go back to feudalism, this system is too powerful to collapse by itself. Back when we had monarchies the ruling class weren't sophisticated in techniques to control the minds of masses but they have nearly mastered it now, especially with facebook and google selling our personal info to everyone and imposing a consumerist culture on us to want to be rich too, things are probably going to look very grim. Although I'm a socialist, I'm very pessimistic that anything will change, the opposition is just too powerful, but I hope I'm wrong.
>bad feeling we won't like it
What do you think the new system will be? Will you do nothing to prevent it from happening? I don't see why you wouldn't be a socialist if you can foresee the world turning to shit. There are many different types of socialists. I don't like the ussr either and they killed the socialist groups that I follow (anarchists), but even the modern state socialists admit that a lot of mistakes were made and they are learning from them, especially considering the pressure stalin was under though from capitalist countries and being the first to do this I don't think he did too bad. decentralized democratically planned economies is how I want the economy to be ran, but if thats shows to not work then I would just try a socialist market economy, even though we would be alienated from our labor at least we would not be wage slaves to a capitalist and we already know what to expect from markets.
>post scarcity can't exist
We are already in post scarcity. Proof - https://www.worldhunger.org/world-hunger-and-poverty-facts-and-statistics/
It's only a matter of distribution. People who need food but don't have money don't get food. In a market system only people that have money get shit, only effect demand matters, not real human demand.
>ussr had too many problems
Agreed and I hate defending it , but as a socialist I have to fight against cold war lies and bigotry to show this isn't the only possible way to live.
>capitalism in its current form surviving much longer
Most capitalist countries are poor with massive disparities in wealth and people living inhumane lives similar to robots with the lands polluted and fake democracies. The smug anime wiz may be from an imperialist capitalist country and only see's whats in his own life, but even the imperialist capitalist countries are going to shit now with many people financing their lives with debt, working and being more productive for less real wages and a giant disparity between working class and ruling class as a result, also surveillance state and biased media with politically/historically illiterate population. Yeah, with another big change in how we produce things (automation) I there will definitely be another crisis. Maybe we'll descend into feudalism if ubi is used to save this horrible system. The governments are getting increasingly authoritarian and capitalist markets are concentrating wealth into a few multinational mega corporations while the population doesn't care. Most are liberals and just want to reform this system with ubi though so I think we'll probably just go back to feudalism, this system is too powerful to collapse by itself. Back when we had monarchies the ruling class weren't sophisticated in techniques to control the minds of masses but they have nearly mastered it now, especially with facebook and google selling our personal info to everyone and imposing a consumerist culture on us to want to be rich too, things are probably going to look very grim. Although I'm a socialist, I'm very pessimistic that anything will change, the opposition is just too powerful, but I hope I'm wrong.
>bad feeling we won't like it
What do you think the new system will be? Will you do nothing to prevent it from happening? I don't see why you wouldn't be a socialist if you can foresee the world turning to shit. There are many different types of socialists. I don't like the ussr either and they killed the socialist groups that I follow (anarchists), but even the modern state socialists admit that a lot of mistakes were made and they are learning from them, especially considering the pressure stalin was under though from capitalist countries and being the first to do this I don't think he did too bad. decentralized democratically planned economies is how I want the economy to be ran, but if thats shows to not work then I would just try a socialist market economy, even though we would be alienated from our labor at least we would not be wage slaves to a capitalist and we already know what to expect from markets.
>>157202
>kulaks
I'm not going to defend whatever caused them to die and maybe it was stalin's intentions, but I'm also not a state socialist and don't like stalin or mao or whatever state socialist leader you can name in the first place. Having a central govermnent can easily lead to despotism to protect the revolution and then all the cia has to do is assassinate the leaders and put a revisionist in power to end it or simply have revisionists in the ruling party. All you capitalists have to do to discredit any socialist territory like the ussr is point out to actual facts about them like 'stalin was a dictator' or the 'govermnent controls everything' which I agree with and they are to blame for why capitalists demonize us. Mao too, all they had to do was wait for mao to die for a revisionist to take power and go back to capitalism. Fuck state socialists.
You are also taking what I said out of context. I was talking about variables that are included when considering what is efficient and what is not efficient. When I say we care about people, I mean that peoples happiness and satisfaction are taken into account in the production process. For example, if we make a robot that can increase our efficiency to produce triple the amount of goods, then we will work less and live our lives more. In the capitalist workplace if a robot as I described is made, someone may be laid off, workers work the same hours in a dehumanizing authoritarian workplace, and the only beneficiary to the technology is the capitalist and maybe the consumer if the product becomes cheaper, but the capitalist doesn't care about his workers as much as he does as his profits and to keep people buying shit they don't need so he can make more money. Socialist workplaces are also democratic while capitalist workplaces are tyrannies. It's not wonder wageslave general is so popular… So if people don't want to work in a sweatshop in socialism, say burger king or wallmart, then no one will have to waste there lives doing that. The labor freed up from that can be focused on essential industries that have to be worked in leading to a decreased work time and people living more human lives.
>technological premier that is russia
Not sure what you mean by this…?
>catalonia devolved into markets and classes
Source? I've only seen evidence that the theory worked perfectly well in reality and if it had time to develop then it would have been very close to what I consider a realistic utopia, but it was atacked on all sides by fascists, state socialists, and capitalists. We need to rethink our military tactics to defend the revolution if we get another chance at one.
>revolution all over the world
Year you're right. The ruling class doesn't want the workers to see a better alternative so they unite to crush us everytime, they want to retain their power and wealth. We are antithetical ideologies that can't exist side by side. You can't have a slave society next to a free society without conflict. This is why many socialists agree communism is only possible once the biggest imperialists powers are crushed to stop them from invading us, which is why the usa needs to be crushed first.
>how fucking dumb are the masses
Well its not their fault. It takes time and effort to learn world history and realize that people with power have an rational self interest to keep a system going that keeps them in power. Sometimes they fool people by using scapegoats ('jews did it or some other minority'), not showing radical events on the news or showing them in a biased way, ruling methodologically by saying 'all are equal in the eyes of the law' indoctrination in schools, people not being able to critically think and connect certain events occurring to other occurrences (thinking they happen in a vacuum), ect… Also I meant to say since the first socialist revolution began, not since markets began, but I do believe the ruling class have been fooling masses in those times too. Everytime you have some hierarchy of peopler over other people, they will have some justification for that hierarchy. Religion is used often, with kings saying they were ordained by god to rule over people, masters had god given rights to rule over slaves ect. These days they do it through a much more complicated and subtle way which is why it's so hard for people to see through it and mostly only intellectuals who study the history of these things can see past the bullshit. They do it partly by no one ever questioning someones property rights or the government, its a lot. And it's a lot easier for the elite at the top to come together to advance their class interest than it is for the majority to come together who are far more divided/dumber than the elites who are very class conscious. This is why I'm a pessimist that a revolution will ever happen, but I hope I'm wrong.
>kulaks
I'm not going to defend whatever caused them to die and maybe it was stalin's intentions, but I'm also not a state socialist and don't like stalin or mao or whatever state socialist leader you can name in the first place. Having a central govermnent can easily lead to despotism to protect the revolution and then all the cia has to do is assassinate the leaders and put a revisionist in power to end it or simply have revisionists in the ruling party. All you capitalists have to do to discredit any socialist territory like the ussr is point out to actual facts about them like 'stalin was a dictator' or the 'govermnent controls everything' which I agree with and they are to blame for why capitalists demonize us. Mao too, all they had to do was wait for mao to die for a revisionist to take power and go back to capitalism. Fuck state socialists.
You are also taking what I said out of context. I was talking about variables that are included when considering what is efficient and what is not efficient. When I say we care about people, I mean that peoples happiness and satisfaction are taken into account in the production process. For example, if we make a robot that can increase our efficiency to produce triple the amount of goods, then we will work less and live our lives more. In the capitalist workplace if a robot as I described is made, someone may be laid off, workers work the same hours in a dehumanizing authoritarian workplace, and the only beneficiary to the technology is the capitalist and maybe the consumer if the product becomes cheaper, but the capitalist doesn't care about his workers as much as he does as his profits and to keep people buying shit they don't need so he can make more money. Socialist workplaces are also democratic while capitalist workplaces are tyrannies. It's not wonder wageslave general is so popular… So if people don't want to work in a sweatshop in socialism, say burger king or wallmart, then no one will have to waste there lives doing that. The labor freed up from that can be focused on essential industries that have to be worked in leading to a decreased work time and people living more human lives.
>technological premier that is russia
Not sure what you mean by this…?
>catalonia devolved into markets and classes
Source? I've only seen evidence that the theory worked perfectly well in reality and if it had time to develop then it would have been very close to what I consider a realistic utopia, but it was atacked on all sides by fascists, state socialists, and capitalists. We need to rethink our military tactics to defend the revolution if we get another chance at one.
>revolution all over the world
Year you're right. The ruling class doesn't want the workers to see a better alternative so they unite to crush us everytime, they want to retain their power and wealth. We are antithetical ideologies that can't exist side by side. You can't have a slave society next to a free society without conflict. This is why many socialists agree communism is only possible once the biggest imperialists powers are crushed to stop them from invading us, which is why the usa needs to be crushed first.
>how fucking dumb are the masses
Well its not their fault. It takes time and effort to learn world history and realize that people with power have an rational self interest to keep a system going that keeps them in power. Sometimes they fool people by using scapegoats ('jews did it or some other minority'), not showing radical events on the news or showing them in a biased way, ruling methodologically by saying 'all are equal in the eyes of the law' indoctrination in schools, people not being able to critically think and connect certain events occurring to other occurrences (thinking they happen in a vacuum), ect… Also I meant to say since the first socialist revolution began, not since markets began, but I do believe the ruling class have been fooling masses in those times too. Everytime you have some hierarchy of peopler over other people, they will have some justification for that hierarchy. Religion is used often, with kings saying they were ordained by god to rule over people, masters had god given rights to rule over slaves ect. These days they do it through a much more complicated and subtle way which is why it's so hard for people to see through it and mostly only intellectuals who study the history of these things can see past the bullshit. They do it partly by no one ever questioning someones property rights or the government, its a lot. And it's a lot easier for the elite at the top to come together to advance their class interest than it is for the majority to come together who are far more divided/dumber than the elites who are very class conscious. This is why I'm a pessimist that a revolution will ever happen, but I hope I'm wrong.
>>157208
> but the capitalist doesn't care about his workers as much as he does as his profits
i want automation combined with social help/ubi, not democratization of the workplace, if i was an employer i wouldnt want employees to tell me what i can or cant do, its my fucking place
if i was an owner of something of course id care more about my profits than the workers, im trying to make money not run a charity
> but the capitalist doesn't care about his workers as much as he does as his profits
ie advancments made in commieland doesnt mean much when it doesnt translate into further wealth/quality of life down the line, doesnt matter if russia went to space first if they didnt win in the end
similiar to leftists and "muh muzzie islamic golden age and trashy white europeans"
while muzzies live in war zones nowadays
>Source?
orwell? homage to catalonia?
>We are antithetical ideologies that can't exist side by side, which is why the usa needs to be crushed first.
fascists were right to put you against the wall
>realize that people with power have an rational self interest to keep a system going that keeps them in power.
how evil, people working for their interests
if "muh gloriuos workers" are too braindead to work for their own interest i cant help them (>inb4 bootlicker)
i think it was good that nations got more democratic by time, and that was largely born out of frustrations with monarchy and thats also fine, the noble fucking over the social contract and all, but me being upset about goverment or governence doesnt mean ill end up a red
> but the capitalist doesn't care about his workers as much as he does as his profits
i want automation combined with social help/ubi, not democratization of the workplace, if i was an employer i wouldnt want employees to tell me what i can or cant do, its my fucking place
if i was an owner of something of course id care more about my profits than the workers, im trying to make money not run a charity
> but the capitalist doesn't care about his workers as much as he does as his profits
ie advancments made in commieland doesnt mean much when it doesnt translate into further wealth/quality of life down the line, doesnt matter if russia went to space first if they didnt win in the end
similiar to leftists and "muh muzzie islamic golden age and trashy white europeans"
while muzzies live in war zones nowadays
>Source?
orwell? homage to catalonia?
>We are antithetical ideologies that can't exist side by side, which is why the usa needs to be crushed first.
fascists were right to put you against the wall
>realize that people with power have an rational self interest to keep a system going that keeps them in power.
how evil, people working for their interests
if "muh gloriuos workers" are too braindead to work for their own interest i cant help them (>inb4 bootlicker)
i think it was good that nations got more democratic by time, and that was largely born out of frustrations with monarchy and thats also fine, the noble fucking over the social contract and all, but me being upset about goverment or governence doesnt mean ill end up a red
>>157211
>>technological premier that is russia
ie advancments made in commieland doesnt mean much when it doesnt translate into further wealth/quality of life down the line, doesnt matter if russia went to space first if they didnt win in the end
similiar to leftists and "muh muzzie islamic golden age and trashy white europeans"
while muzzies live in war zones nowadays
man i suck at copy pasting today
>>technological premier that is russia
ie advancments made in commieland doesnt mean much when it doesnt translate into further wealth/quality of life down the line, doesnt matter if russia went to space first if they didnt win in the end
similiar to leftists and "muh muzzie islamic golden age and trashy white europeans"
while muzzies live in war zones nowadays
man i suck at copy pasting today
>>157211
>democratization of the workplace
Yeah, you're assuming we would let a single person own a factory and simple let who he hires be able to vote on stuff. We are socialists, this means worker ownership of businesses, so it's there would be no employer in the first place, the workers would own where they work. The only property people would have is their homes or personal possessions, like their car or homes and stuff that other people don't need to live.
>doesn't mean much when it's not further wealth/quality of life down the line
I'm getting tired of arguing with you but if you want I can give you a huge list of inventions made in the ussr completely refuting this statement, but you already know that the ussr went from a feudal peasant society to being world power number 2 in 50 years so I don't know if you're talking out of your ass here or being willfully ignorant.
>homeage to catalonia
lol. Where does orwell say that catalonia had classes in this book? quote me from the page and I'll find it. Honestly, I've only skimmed through it but I don't remember seeing him saying anything like this. When he went back to barcelona then he saw a remarkable vivid difference in the class divide and wished he would've joined the anarchists where he saw none of that, thats the only part I remember. I'll have to read it thoroughly myself though, but I don't believe you until I see those quotes.
>fascist sympathizer
Not surprised here. Capitalists love fascists. This is why we see them rising up again in europe and america now that we are in a near crisis.
>ubi
Well you're not guaranteed that in capitalism, but being able to be a neet is GUARANTEED in communism. If you are a wizard I don't know why you would take the gamble on this, not to mention so many other negatives which I won't go into now for keeping this god forsaken system. Also it's ironic that the people trying to get that to you are claimed to be 'socialists' and many stupid americans believe they are. They aren't the real deal, but if you like these phony socialists I don't see why you wouldn't like actual ones who guarantee everything the phony ones say plus much more. Wizards would only benefit from them.
>evil
I never said they were evil, but they are only doing what is rational for themselves in this system that rewards them for acting like this. Also, Arguably we don't have a democracy and instead an oligarchy and have always had that, but I won't get into that since I'm tired. After all capitalists don't like democracy. If the mass of people decided to vote ourselves into socialism do you think those with power would just let it happen? Hell no, they realized this since the usa constitution was formed. The fucking second president of america only ever wanted people with property to vote, but he couldn't get that so he formed the government in a way that ensures the property owners will have the most influence on the government and this is what we see today in lobbying and election finance. It's not a coincidence the president is a billionaire out of millions of people. And historically the 'democratic govermnent' has ALWAYS sided with the capitalist class unless it threated the integrity of the system as a whole. It is not a coincidence that unions are dead now.
>democratization of the workplace
Yeah, you're assuming we would let a single person own a factory and simple let who he hires be able to vote on stuff. We are socialists, this means worker ownership of businesses, so it's there would be no employer in the first place, the workers would own where they work. The only property people would have is their homes or personal possessions, like their car or homes and stuff that other people don't need to live.
>doesn't mean much when it's not further wealth/quality of life down the line
I'm getting tired of arguing with you but if you want I can give you a huge list of inventions made in the ussr completely refuting this statement, but you already know that the ussr went from a feudal peasant society to being world power number 2 in 50 years so I don't know if you're talking out of your ass here or being willfully ignorant.
>homeage to catalonia
lol. Where does orwell say that catalonia had classes in this book? quote me from the page and I'll find it. Honestly, I've only skimmed through it but I don't remember seeing him saying anything like this. When he went back to barcelona then he saw a remarkable vivid difference in the class divide and wished he would've joined the anarchists where he saw none of that, thats the only part I remember. I'll have to read it thoroughly myself though, but I don't believe you until I see those quotes.
>fascist sympathizer
Not surprised here. Capitalists love fascists. This is why we see them rising up again in europe and america now that we are in a near crisis.
>ubi
Well you're not guaranteed that in capitalism, but being able to be a neet is GUARANTEED in communism. If you are a wizard I don't know why you would take the gamble on this, not to mention so many other negatives which I won't go into now for keeping this god forsaken system. Also it's ironic that the people trying to get that to you are claimed to be 'socialists' and many stupid americans believe they are. They aren't the real deal, but if you like these phony socialists I don't see why you wouldn't like actual ones who guarantee everything the phony ones say plus much more. Wizards would only benefit from them.
>evil
I never said they were evil, but they are only doing what is rational for themselves in this system that rewards them for acting like this. Also, Arguably we don't have a democracy and instead an oligarchy and have always had that, but I won't get into that since I'm tired. After all capitalists don't like democracy. If the mass of people decided to vote ourselves into socialism do you think those with power would just let it happen? Hell no, they realized this since the usa constitution was formed. The fucking second president of america only ever wanted people with property to vote, but he couldn't get that so he formed the government in a way that ensures the property owners will have the most influence on the government and this is what we see today in lobbying and election finance. It's not a coincidence the president is a billionaire out of millions of people. And historically the 'democratic govermnent' has ALWAYS sided with the capitalist class unless it threated the integrity of the system as a whole. It is not a coincidence that unions are dead now.
Okay, this thread has been officially derailed by hapa fuck bois nursing their little pet economic theories.
Did you guys miss the turn-off at /r/hapas or something? Can you go post your long, inane, paragraph posts over there and leave the thread to focus on things that like… actually exist?
Fuck bois, I swear.
Did you guys miss the turn-off at /r/hapas or something? Can you go post your long, inane, paragraph posts over there and leave the thread to focus on things that like… actually exist?
Fuck bois, I swear.
>>157213
>Yeah, you're assuming we would let a single person own a factory and simple let who he hires be able to vote on stuff. We are socialists, this means worker ownership of businesses, so it's there would be no employer in the first place
thank god you dont get to decide that
> but you already know that the ussr went from a feudal peasant society to being world power number 2 in 50 years so I don't know if you're talking out of your ass here or being willfully ignorant.
through using their own people as slave labor, america and england did that withouth that, and whos the world power now again?
>orwell
i meant when he goes back to barcelona
>Capitalists love fascists
cry about it
>neet is GUARANTEED in communism
oh im laffin
>Yeah, you're assuming we would let a single person own a factory and simple let who he hires be able to vote on stuff. We are socialists, this means worker ownership of businesses, so it's there would be no employer in the first place
thank god you dont get to decide that
> but you already know that the ussr went from a feudal peasant society to being world power number 2 in 50 years so I don't know if you're talking out of your ass here or being willfully ignorant.
through using their own people as slave labor, america and england did that withouth that, and whos the world power now again?
>orwell
i meant when he goes back to barcelona
>Capitalists love fascists
cry about it
>neet is GUARANTEED in communism
oh im laffin
>>157216
>through using their own people as slave labor, america and england did that withouth that, and whos the world power now again?
Not gonna reply to you beyond here but this is the most ironic statement I have heard in a long time. l0l0l0l
>cry about it
;-; drink my commie tearz
>through using their own people as slave labor, america and england did that withouth that, and whos the world power now again?
Not gonna reply to you beyond here but this is the most ironic statement I have heard in a long time. l0l0l0l
>cry about it
;-; drink my commie tearz
>>157198
>mediocre codemonkey
What's wrong with this? Programming is intellectually stimulating work on any level, you don't have to be working on space shuttels or AI waifus to have a good job.
>competing with trannies, autists, chinks and pajeets man
Any self-respecting wiz could easily outperform these morons.
If you're CIS, can hold down your autism and you can speak native english, you're already way past them.
>mediocre codemonkey
What's wrong with this? Programming is intellectually stimulating work on any level, you don't have to be working on space shuttels or AI waifus to have a good job.
>competing with trannies, autists, chinks and pajeets man
Any self-respecting wiz could easily outperform these morons.
If you're CIS, can hold down your autism and you can speak native english, you're already way past them.
>>157214
We all know you wouldn't be saying shit if someone didn't contradict the rightist fucktards by calling out their bullshit and their repeated habit of shitting up threads with retarded capitalist arguments. Why does "both sides" only get rolled out as a defense for capitalism and the ruling order, when one side is clearly pushing retardation and the Communists in this thread have mostly been presenting their case in good faith?
I don't even agree with the Communists or that labor-friendly socialism is a potential system that can work in practice, but the reasons why socialism fails has nothing to do with the retarded reasons ancaps believe capitalism is an ideal system. Capitalism is shit. If we actually look at history, the socialist systems of the past weren't total abysmal failures, they were just an alternative mode of production that persisted for a few decades, but failed more because of America's accumulated wealth and ability to act aggressively on the world stage. It cannot be doubted that the bad guys won the Cold War, given what happened afterward and what America is today.
We all know you wouldn't be saying shit if someone didn't contradict the rightist fucktards by calling out their bullshit and their repeated habit of shitting up threads with retarded capitalist arguments. Why does "both sides" only get rolled out as a defense for capitalism and the ruling order, when one side is clearly pushing retardation and the Communists in this thread have mostly been presenting their case in good faith?
I don't even agree with the Communists or that labor-friendly socialism is a potential system that can work in practice, but the reasons why socialism fails has nothing to do with the retarded reasons ancaps believe capitalism is an ideal system. Capitalism is shit. If we actually look at history, the socialist systems of the past weren't total abysmal failures, they were just an alternative mode of production that persisted for a few decades, but failed more because of America's accumulated wealth and ability to act aggressively on the world stage. It cannot be doubted that the bad guys won the Cold War, given what happened afterward and what America is today.
>>157217
>Not gonna reply to you beyond here but this is the most ironic statement I have heard in a long time. l0l0l0l
I think the point was America didn't need gulags or mass starvations to achieve superpower status.
>Not gonna reply to you beyond here but this is the most ironic statement I have heard in a long time. l0l0l0l
I think the point was America didn't need gulags or mass starvations to achieve superpower status.
>>157225
What do you think Vietnam and Iraq wars were? You're talking about conflicts which kill off a substantial percentage of the target country's population, fought for geopolitical purposes. America's death toll in these wars alone gives the American presidency a significant death toll, and unlike Stalin and Mao's death tolls which come in part from natural disasters and famines that would likely have happened in any system, the American wars were acts of pure aggression, willfully undertaken with full understanding that millions would die.
Never mind all of the other horrible things that can be rightly blamed on the American Empire, or the system of transnational global capitalism as a whole, that are willfully undertaken to keep the system going and allow the people at the top to exercise the power that they do.
So yes, America did need mass starvations and gulags to achieve superpower status - they just operate largely in Americas theaters of war and in occupied resource extraction zones.
Never mind that America has consistently used convict labor, and that at present American rates of incarceration are the highest per capita in the world by a good distance. Never mind that America has its own political prisoners, who get thrown into a Kafkaesque mess of a prison system. Never mind the use of extraordinary rendition and secret torture facilities in the so-called "War on Terror".
What do you think Vietnam and Iraq wars were? You're talking about conflicts which kill off a substantial percentage of the target country's population, fought for geopolitical purposes. America's death toll in these wars alone gives the American presidency a significant death toll, and unlike Stalin and Mao's death tolls which come in part from natural disasters and famines that would likely have happened in any system, the American wars were acts of pure aggression, willfully undertaken with full understanding that millions would die.
Never mind all of the other horrible things that can be rightly blamed on the American Empire, or the system of transnational global capitalism as a whole, that are willfully undertaken to keep the system going and allow the people at the top to exercise the power that they do.
So yes, America did need mass starvations and gulags to achieve superpower status - they just operate largely in Americas theaters of war and in occupied resource extraction zones.
Never mind that America has consistently used convict labor, and that at present American rates of incarceration are the highest per capita in the world by a good distance. Never mind that America has its own political prisoners, who get thrown into a Kafkaesque mess of a prison system. Never mind the use of extraordinary rendition and secret torture facilities in the so-called "War on Terror".
>>157226
>What do you think Vietnam and Iraq wars were?
Things that have nothing to do with gulags, mass starvations, or Americas superpower status? And it's a bit of a stretch to call Vietnam a war of aggression since it was basically a proxy war between USA and USSR/China with the intent of propping up the South with few incursions into the North.
>What do you think Vietnam and Iraq wars were?
Things that have nothing to do with gulags, mass starvations, or Americas superpower status? And it's a bit of a stretch to call Vietnam a war of aggression since it was basically a proxy war between USA and USSR/China with the intent of propping up the South with few incursions into the North.
>>157058
Which is better because it separates the castes. Here in jewrope everybody has a fucking degree and it only creates oversaturation, lowering wages and more problems. University shouldn't be free (not that it is either, your taxes are used for this stuff)
Which is better because it separates the castes. Here in jewrope everybody has a fucking degree and it only creates oversaturation, lowering wages and more problems. University shouldn't be free (not that it is either, your taxes are used for this stuff)
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>>157235
You don't have a single coherent argument to back up that claim.
You don't have a single coherent argument to back up that claim.
>>157239
You're still mad you were called out as the normalfag you are all around the thread. Good night
You're still mad you were called out as the normalfag you are all around the thread. Good night
>>157241
I'm just asking for arguments. I explained my reasoning earlier in the thread and this is the second time it's the same one liner with no coherent argument behind it.
I'm just asking for arguments. I explained my reasoning earlier in the thread and this is the second time it's the same one liner with no coherent argument behind it.
>>157242
not him, but why are you even trying to argue this? the limit where everyone draws the line is pretty much arbitrary, you can argue what you want, the porblem is that your facts arent based on any kind of science so they are hardly proof for your claim in these matters. if whatever you said makes you a normalfag in his eyes then thats it, you cant argue it. all you can do is tell him that you dont share his opinion on that because thats all it is; his personal opinion. now i sort of agree with him, you certainly border my personal definition of normalfag too, but argumentum ad populum, as we all know, doesnt make majority opinion a fact. just as you have to accept that some people wont like you in life you will also have to accept that some wizards think that youre a normalfag. time to move on.
not him, but why are you even trying to argue this? the limit where everyone draws the line is pretty much arbitrary, you can argue what you want, the porblem is that your facts arent based on any kind of science so they are hardly proof for your claim in these matters. if whatever you said makes you a normalfag in his eyes then thats it, you cant argue it. all you can do is tell him that you dont share his opinion on that because thats all it is; his personal opinion. now i sort of agree with him, you certainly border my personal definition of normalfag too, but argumentum ad populum, as we all know, doesnt make majority opinion a fact. just as you have to accept that some people wont like you in life you will also have to accept that some wizards think that youre a normalfag. time to move on.
>>157164
>No one knows how an actual communist society will work out
I know. It will be shit, because it will be run by people. If you're a communist, work on fucking A.I. so someone less retarded than humans can run it.
>No one knows how an actual communist society will work out
I know. It will be shit, because it will be run by people. If you're a communist, work on fucking A.I. so someone less retarded than humans can run it.
>>157250
Not at all. Unsupervised self-learning algorithms are a thing. After a certain point AI will make itself.
Not at all. Unsupervised self-learning algorithms are a thing. After a certain point AI will make itself.
>>157254
Unsupervised learning is a thing (grouping similar data together) but imo most AI is buzzword upon buzzword. The current bubble will burst like all the others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter#Overview
Unsupervised learning is a thing (grouping similar data together) but imo most AI is buzzword upon buzzword. The current bubble will burst like all the others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter#Overview
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>>157250
True. Let's just wipe humanity out and be done with it.
True. Let's just wipe humanity out and be done with it.
>>157236
>Which is better because it separates the castes
It means only jews and jew like individuals can advance through life through nepotism. It just fuck you over even more. Imagine having to go into debt so you can just then become a wageslave.
>Which is better because it separates the castes
It means only jews and jew like individuals can advance through life through nepotism. It just fuck you over even more. Imagine having to go into debt so you can just then become a wageslave.
i am going to live a frugal life in a vehicle. i just need to figure out how to bathe. If i were a millionaire i wouldn't bathe at all, but i need to for a job
>>157141
>the line between wiz and crab is about wanting sex, which is consistent with the wizardly doctrine of disregarding succubi
What does disregard meme? I don't ignore them, it's important to be aware of succubi so you can avoid them or else they'll say you tried to rape them or something and get their thirsty followers to beat you up.
On a related note: if a 30+ male virgin only wanted to fap into a turkey baster and then jam that baster into a vagina to impregnate succubi to pass on his genes, would wanting to sexually assault succubi using a turkey baster instead of a penis still qualify as wanting to have sexual intercourse? Like what if this hypothetical guy hated all succubi, but still saw some value in securing a future for the white race by impregnating them non-sexually to compete for the government welfare state so that lack of funds will prompt people to stop pushing mass immigration? You don't even want to fap, but you have to, to secure a future for the Aryan race.
>the line between wiz and crab is about wanting sex, which is consistent with the wizardly doctrine of disregarding succubi
What does disregard meme? I don't ignore them, it's important to be aware of succubi so you can avoid them or else they'll say you tried to rape them or something and get their thirsty followers to beat you up.
On a related note: if a 30+ male virgin only wanted to fap into a turkey baster and then jam that baster into a vagina to impregnate succubi to pass on his genes, would wanting to sexually assault succubi using a turkey baster instead of a penis still qualify as wanting to have sexual intercourse? Like what if this hypothetical guy hated all succubi, but still saw some value in securing a future for the white race by impregnating them non-sexually to compete for the government welfare state so that lack of funds will prompt people to stop pushing mass immigration? You don't even want to fap, but you have to, to secure a future for the Aryan race.
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