I've been thinking about how I blame my parents for my lot in life. And yet at the same time the normie answer would be "you're a grown adult man, stop being a crying snowflake, and take responsibility for your own life".
Its a weird philosophical conundrum how we are individuals with our own personality, character, free will, and yet we are just robotic products of our parents' nature and nurture.
Usually we focus on the genetic determinism aspect of parents. How we are just robots for their selfish genes. But even if we look at the nurture and environmental side. Who does the nurturing? Who picks the socioeconomic environment for us? You look at the schools you go to, the values you are raised with, the quality of the neighborhood, your religion or lack of it. All choices of the parents. So basically all your environmental factors up to at least your teens and maybe beyond are the choice of your parents.
And yet society doesn't look kindly on a 30 year old man who says he can't function because he got dealt a bad hand from his parents.
To me it seems like life is mostly set in the genes. And to the extent there is an environmental influence at all that was also picked by the parents.
I don't relate to normies who are so loyal to their genes, and feel their purpose in life is to spread them. They don't feel like my property. To me it feels like my genes belong to my parents and I don't want to look out for them. My DNA has brought me nothing but misery. I look on my DNA as the enemy.
But of course there are many examples of children very different from their parents, who reject the values of their parents. Good parents with bad kids and vice versa.
Obviously parents can get very angry at their kids, especially when they are NEETing. And its not like they philosophically reflect "I'm just getting angry at my own nature and nurture"
Its a weird philosophical conundrum how we are individuals with our own personality, character, free will, and yet we are just robotic products of our parents' nature and nurture.
Usually we focus on the genetic determinism aspect of parents. How we are just robots for their selfish genes. But even if we look at the nurture and environmental side. Who does the nurturing? Who picks the socioeconomic environment for us? You look at the schools you go to, the values you are raised with, the quality of the neighborhood, your religion or lack of it. All choices of the parents. So basically all your environmental factors up to at least your teens and maybe beyond are the choice of your parents.
And yet society doesn't look kindly on a 30 year old man who says he can't function because he got dealt a bad hand from his parents.
To me it seems like life is mostly set in the genes. And to the extent there is an environmental influence at all that was also picked by the parents.
I don't relate to normies who are so loyal to their genes, and feel their purpose in life is to spread them. They don't feel like my property. To me it feels like my genes belong to my parents and I don't want to look out for them. My DNA has brought me nothing but misery. I look on my DNA as the enemy.
But of course there are many examples of children very different from their parents, who reject the values of their parents. Good parents with bad kids and vice versa.
Obviously parents can get very angry at their kids, especially when they are NEETing. And its not like they philosophically reflect "I'm just getting angry at my own nature and nurture"
Your life is limited in all kinds of ways. Your parents likely fucked up, you didn't go to the best school, you didn't get all the love and attention you deserved etc. That much is true.
Now it's just a matter of finding ways to make the best out of your life. Blaming your parents is just wasted energy, they won't realize their mistakes and if they do, at best you'll get "sorry, kiddo, did my best" or some other excuse. Your energy is much better spent trying to find ways to undo their parenting, observing your unconscious tendencies, changing your habits, catching up on everything you missed in your childhood.
Forgive your parents and move on. Stop reading deterministic trash and find places where you DO have control and focus on those.
Now it's just a matter of finding ways to make the best out of your life. Blaming your parents is just wasted energy, they won't realize their mistakes and if they do, at best you'll get "sorry, kiddo, did my best" or some other excuse. Your energy is much better spent trying to find ways to undo their parenting, observing your unconscious tendencies, changing your habits, catching up on everything you missed in your childhood.
Forgive your parents and move on. Stop reading deterministic trash and find places where you DO have control and focus on those.
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>>157303
Funny, I just had the same argument with my mother today. I told her it's her fault I'm the way I am. It's their genes and their upbringing that made me who I am. Their decisions and their genetic code that forms my entire being. How can they blame me, if I'm merely an extended version of them? I brought up pic related and said how can you treat a person worse than a dog? Why have a child and then stop caring for it and expect it to be an adult and take care of you and itself? It's your responsibility because you made it.
She said people are different than dogs and that a child should only be dependent on its parents until adulthood, when the roles should be reversed when the child pays the parent back by taking care of them.
I should replay my parents for bringing me into this world and taking care of me? Even though I never asked for it and it was their selfish decision - and I should be thankful for it?
Why are breeders like this? They reproduce with expectations, then when they fuck up and their expectations don't come true, they get angry at their failed offspring.
But >>157305 makes a fair point. Not much point soaking about, it's all water under the bridge now anyhow. You can either kill yourself or try living the life you were dealt. Not much else to say. Good luck, to us all…
Funny, I just had the same argument with my mother today. I told her it's her fault I'm the way I am. It's their genes and their upbringing that made me who I am. Their decisions and their genetic code that forms my entire being. How can they blame me, if I'm merely an extended version of them? I brought up pic related and said how can you treat a person worse than a dog? Why have a child and then stop caring for it and expect it to be an adult and take care of you and itself? It's your responsibility because you made it.
She said people are different than dogs and that a child should only be dependent on its parents until adulthood, when the roles should be reversed when the child pays the parent back by taking care of them.
I should replay my parents for bringing me into this world and taking care of me? Even though I never asked for it and it was their selfish decision - and I should be thankful for it?
Why are breeders like this? They reproduce with expectations, then when they fuck up and their expectations don't come true, they get angry at their failed offspring.
But >>157305 makes a fair point. Not much point soaking about, it's all water under the bridge now anyhow. You can either kill yourself or try living the life you were dealt. Not much else to say. Good luck, to us all…
Theres so much fighting over natural genetic determinism vs nurture environmental determinism. What relative % roles they play in shaping human character.
But if we just combine it into the category of "parental determinism" then its like 100%
But if we just combine it into the category of "parental determinism" then its like 100%
>>157303
It's true, your situation is caused by your parents.
But they can say the same thing, even having you was caused by how they were brought up, and on goes the ridiculous chain of fucking up.
It's true, your situation is caused by your parents.
But they can say the same thing, even having you was caused by how they were brought up, and on goes the ridiculous chain of fucking up.
yeah my parents I guess weren't so great, my sister is older than me and extremely normal but I have severe anxiety with agoraphobia and panic attacks often, I blame my dad for treating me like I was a rough normal boy (he grew up in a house of 9 boys) and so he'd be really harsh with me even though I was shy and emotional so that made me even more shy until mental illness level plus bullies from school are an external factor as well so I guess my parents couldn't do anything about that but maybe it was because my parents made me afraid to talk to them about that kind of stuff.
>>157310
oh yeah and as for as long as I can remember my parents never loved each other so that made living with them hard too, yelling matches every night and stuff like that, I've also though that through that I never had moulded in my mind what a relationship is, to me it is what I saw, two unhappy people stuck together for no reason.
oh yeah and as for as long as I can remember my parents never loved each other so that made living with them hard too, yelling matches every night and stuff like that, I've also though that through that I never had moulded in my mind what a relationship is, to me it is what I saw, two unhappy people stuck together for no reason.
It's their fault that I ended up as some psycho with murderous urges.
My parents already know that I'm mental ward material and look like I will kill people out of some psychotic episode. I will probably end killed by cops after kill everyone I want kill.
My parents already know that I'm mental ward material and look like I will kill people out of some psychotic episode. I will probably end killed by cops after kill everyone I want kill.
>>157309
This.
OP, you identified the proximate cause of your misery in your parents, but you fail to understand the root cause. You blame it all on your parents: you say you had no choice and you're the end result of certain deterministic processes initiated by your parents. But by doing so you make it sound like, even though you have no free will, your parents somehow have it and they can held responsible for their alleged "choices". If we accept your assumption that you have little or no free will, it's only reasonable to conclude that your parents never had much of a choice either. They gave birth to you because they were shaped by nature and nurture in such a way that led them to start a family. Your parents are no more responsible than you: you could blame your grandparents, or your great-grandparents and so on, but in the end existence itself is the root cause of all evil and no single person can really be held responsible. Everyone is as much of a puppet as you are.
This.
OP, you identified the proximate cause of your misery in your parents, but you fail to understand the root cause. You blame it all on your parents: you say you had no choice and you're the end result of certain deterministic processes initiated by your parents. But by doing so you make it sound like, even though you have no free will, your parents somehow have it and they can held responsible for their alleged "choices". If we accept your assumption that you have little or no free will, it's only reasonable to conclude that your parents never had much of a choice either. They gave birth to you because they were shaped by nature and nurture in such a way that led them to start a family. Your parents are no more responsible than you: you could blame your grandparents, or your great-grandparents and so on, but in the end existence itself is the root cause of all evil and no single person can really be held responsible. Everyone is as much of a puppet as you are.
Everyone has free will but I'm predetermined to turn myself into a parade float, waste resources and time, leak my iq through jerking off then blame other people for my faults.
>>157318
>blame other people for my faults
Does blaming your genetics count as blaming others? I don't blame my parents because parenting is hard and even the best parents can raise turds. And past excluding serious genetic diseases there are no genetic tests that can exclude your son becoming a depressed low IQ loser.
But I absolutely blame my genetics because they decide so many things. They decide my IQ and talent and they even decide my happiness set point and willpower.
>blame other people for my faults
Does blaming your genetics count as blaming others? I don't blame my parents because parenting is hard and even the best parents can raise turds. And past excluding serious genetic diseases there are no genetic tests that can exclude your son becoming a depressed low IQ loser.
But I absolutely blame my genetics because they decide so many things. They decide my IQ and talent and they even decide my happiness set point and willpower.
>>157303
At the end of the day OP, you are a reflection of your parents. Their demons and angels. I have issues with both of my parents, especially with my dad. But with my mom she always explained herself to me and told me the story of her life so I ended up empathizing and understanding her demons. my father on the other hand pulled a Frankenstein and emotionally and mentally checked out of my life. But the problem with blaming them is that you can never leave the mirror and become your own being. Do what you can to free yourself and see what happens from there.
At the end of the day OP, you are a reflection of your parents. Their demons and angels. I have issues with both of my parents, especially with my dad. But with my mom she always explained herself to me and told me the story of her life so I ended up empathizing and understanding her demons. my father on the other hand pulled a Frankenstein and emotionally and mentally checked out of my life. But the problem with blaming them is that you can never leave the mirror and become your own being. Do what you can to free yourself and see what happens from there.
>>157306
Not paying my parents back. They don't know but I am gathering money with the intention of leaving with nothing but my car and what I can shove into it. They think I will head where we used to live on the west coast (we now live in Colorado) but they are wrong I will head to the east coast instead. I need to get far away from here. Truthfully I want to burn everything I can't take with me just so I have nothing to come back too. I have been ramping down all the medications I have been on and have quit all but one and I am nearly off of that one. Not going to have the money or the time to waste on bullshit therapy and kike boner killing drugs. I am abandoning my entire life and pretty much my family at the same time. I will not return even to settle their estate my half brother can handle it and he can keep the fucking money too.
I will do my best to work and establish myself with my own place or I will die trying. Already have my .45 for suicide if it comes to that. Its a risky venture my odds of success are less than 10% but its better than staying here in relative comfort just waiting to die. I can't do it anymore. I must sacrifice my old life to the fire and begin anew. Perhaps a bud will sprout and thrive or perhaps I will meet my end.
I have no idea who the fuck is going to take care of my parents when they are old since my brother is selfish as fuck and I will likely be unwilling and unable to provide much. If I have cash to spare I might spring for a nursing home, something they dread the idea and hate the idea of living in but fuck them. They thought nothing of ruining my life for their selfish reasons twice so payback is a bitch.
They will not be told of my plan until I have either already left or while I am leaving if they catch me in the act. My last desperate effort to save my life and maybe enjoy it just a little bit also serves as their punishment. Its perfect.
Not paying my parents back. They don't know but I am gathering money with the intention of leaving with nothing but my car and what I can shove into it. They think I will head where we used to live on the west coast (we now live in Colorado) but they are wrong I will head to the east coast instead. I need to get far away from here. Truthfully I want to burn everything I can't take with me just so I have nothing to come back too. I have been ramping down all the medications I have been on and have quit all but one and I am nearly off of that one. Not going to have the money or the time to waste on bullshit therapy and kike boner killing drugs. I am abandoning my entire life and pretty much my family at the same time. I will not return even to settle their estate my half brother can handle it and he can keep the fucking money too.
I will do my best to work and establish myself with my own place or I will die trying. Already have my .45 for suicide if it comes to that. Its a risky venture my odds of success are less than 10% but its better than staying here in relative comfort just waiting to die. I can't do it anymore. I must sacrifice my old life to the fire and begin anew. Perhaps a bud will sprout and thrive or perhaps I will meet my end.
I have no idea who the fuck is going to take care of my parents when they are old since my brother is selfish as fuck and I will likely be unwilling and unable to provide much. If I have cash to spare I might spring for a nursing home, something they dread the idea and hate the idea of living in but fuck them. They thought nothing of ruining my life for their selfish reasons twice so payback is a bitch.
They will not be told of my plan until I have either already left or while I am leaving if they catch me in the act. My last desperate effort to save my life and maybe enjoy it just a little bit also serves as their punishment. Its perfect.
I think blaming parents is generally a waste of time, even if you are right. What does blaming them change? Nothing.
I didn't have a mother as far as I'm concerned but my father helped out quite a bit. She's damaged me too much from birth most likelyfrom what she taking after failing to give birth to a sibling I didn't have and probably alcohol too. Lots of fighting, lots of psychical abuse, and lots of mixed messages. My life was a train wreck from the very beginning. I was probably double teamed by a shitty upbringing and screwed by antibiotics she had to take. I wish I had the pieces to put together earlier so I could have spared myself at least some of the misery.
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>Why don't you just man up? Can't blame your parents forever!
Ok, but in order to man up and make a lifestyle/attitude change like that I need to have developed certain lifeskills and personality traits, and who was supposed to give me th- oh right.
Really the solution to having bad parents (according to society) requires behaving in ways that presuppose you had good parents, which makes absolutely zero sense. It's like saying you've encountered a boulder you can't move because it's too heavy and they respond with "Well, you can't blame your lack of strength forever, just move the boulder!". They don't realize that the parents not only failed to raise their children properly but, as an extension of that, didn't raise them to have the tools to cope with being raised improperly. I basically just said the same thing multiple times, but you get the idea. When you get bad parenting, bad lifestyles and bad genes altogether from your parents, the odds are borderline impossible. You lost out on nature AND nurture.
And again… the societal solution to having those problems is to uh.. just.. not have those problems.
Ok, but in order to man up and make a lifestyle/attitude change like that I need to have developed certain lifeskills and personality traits, and who was supposed to give me th- oh right.
Really the solution to having bad parents (according to society) requires behaving in ways that presuppose you had good parents, which makes absolutely zero sense. It's like saying you've encountered a boulder you can't move because it's too heavy and they respond with "Well, you can't blame your lack of strength forever, just move the boulder!". They don't realize that the parents not only failed to raise their children properly but, as an extension of that, didn't raise them to have the tools to cope with being raised improperly. I basically just said the same thing multiple times, but you get the idea. When you get bad parenting, bad lifestyles and bad genes altogether from your parents, the odds are borderline impossible. You lost out on nature AND nurture.
And again… the societal solution to having those problems is to uh.. just.. not have those problems.
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>Mother is devout Christian
>At this point in my life I can't comprehend the idea of Heaven as I can't imagine being happy while still being concious
>tfw mother doesn't crave oblivion as much as I do
>At this point in my life I can't comprehend the idea of Heaven as I can't imagine being happy while still being concious
>tfw mother doesn't crave oblivion as much as I do
>>157630
I don't consider heaven to be a place where you are in a permanent state of happiness. That would really cheapen the experience overall wouldn't you say?
I don't consider heaven to be a place where you are in a permanent state of happiness. That would really cheapen the experience overall wouldn't you say?
>>157623
>It's like saying you've encountered a boulder you can't move because it's too heavy and they respond with "Well, you can't blame your lack of strength forever, just move the boulder!".
More like, you live with the expectation of being able to move the boulder when you encounter it. But when you encounter it, and is unable, you have no idea to react, because the simple idea of not being able to doesn't exist. Then you are shamed for not knowing the solution and correct way of solving the problem (which you would have with good parents, but with good parents, you wouldn't struggle moving the boulder).
>It's like saying you've encountered a boulder you can't move because it's too heavy and they respond with "Well, you can't blame your lack of strength forever, just move the boulder!".
More like, you live with the expectation of being able to move the boulder when you encounter it. But when you encounter it, and is unable, you have no idea to react, because the simple idea of not being able to doesn't exist. Then you are shamed for not knowing the solution and correct way of solving the problem (which you would have with good parents, but with good parents, you wouldn't struggle moving the boulder).
>>157632
If there's no time, I think it could be possible. I have okay feel good moments every once in a while, but they pass.
If there's no time, I think it could be possible. I have okay feel good moments every once in a while, but they pass.
>>157623
That's a pretty good argument but I refuse to blame my parents out of sympathy I guess.
It's like they (and I assume a lot of other parents) say, there's no rulebook for how to raise kids. Yeah they kinda screwed me, but it's not their fault I know they tried their hardest.
But, I do know you are correct. How can I man up if I wasn't given the building blocks to become a man?
That's a pretty good argument but I refuse to blame my parents out of sympathy I guess.
It's like they (and I assume a lot of other parents) say, there's no rulebook for how to raise kids. Yeah they kinda screwed me, but it's not their fault I know they tried their hardest.
But, I do know you are correct. How can I man up if I wasn't given the building blocks to become a man?
>>157650
>they tried their hardest.
Did they really? If they had actually tried they might have fucking consulted someone about how to raise kids or read some fucking books. Not to mention the fact that you're here on wiz, which makes me believe that they never really tried to push you in any certain direction whatsoever, I assume. that they in fact just let you drift along the way like some fucking log.
>but they put a roof over my head and food on the table
whoop de fucking doo. I can do that and I have never had a fucking job.
>they tried their hardest.
Did they really? If they had actually tried they might have fucking consulted someone about how to raise kids or read some fucking books. Not to mention the fact that you're here on wiz, which makes me believe that they never really tried to push you in any certain direction whatsoever, I assume. that they in fact just let you drift along the way like some fucking log.
>but they put a roof over my head and food on the table
whoop de fucking doo. I can do that and I have never had a fucking job.
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>>157303
How can it be your parents fault if the same logic that would direct it towards them, redirects said fault to their parents, and so on and so forth to the beginning of time.
How can it be your parents fault if the same logic that would direct it towards them, redirects said fault to their parents, and so on and so forth to the beginning of time.
>>157303
I used to, at the height of my depression during teenage years I often spent entire nights standing with a knife outside my biological parents bedroom debating intensely whether I should go in and kill them as they sleep for the unforgivable crime they committed by forcing me into existence merely to try and fix their own failing relationship. That all passed as I was consumed with apathy and anhedonia over the years, and as I turned to deeper internal debates to fill my time, I came to a conclusion that it is irrational to blame them for they are stupid animals. Would you blame a machine doing what it is meant to do? Would you resent a wolf for hunting, or fish for swimming? They don't think, they just act out their biological programming. If anything I pity them for their ignorance, even if this knowledge is a burden to bear. I'd rather know and suffer for it than be an ignorant slave.
Nothing you can do will change the fact that you are alive, that you were born. Your only choice, only piece of comfort is the fact that you can (and should, if I may add) choose to not make the same mistake as them. Become a real human and make a choice even if it goes against your biological programming, for anything else makes a man no more than a beast.
I used to, at the height of my depression during teenage years I often spent entire nights standing with a knife outside my biological parents bedroom debating intensely whether I should go in and kill them as they sleep for the unforgivable crime they committed by forcing me into existence merely to try and fix their own failing relationship. That all passed as I was consumed with apathy and anhedonia over the years, and as I turned to deeper internal debates to fill my time, I came to a conclusion that it is irrational to blame them for they are stupid animals. Would you blame a machine doing what it is meant to do? Would you resent a wolf for hunting, or fish for swimming? They don't think, they just act out their biological programming. If anything I pity them for their ignorance, even if this knowledge is a burden to bear. I'd rather know and suffer for it than be an ignorant slave.
Nothing you can do will change the fact that you are alive, that you were born. Your only choice, only piece of comfort is the fact that you can (and should, if I may add) choose to not make the same mistake as them. Become a real human and make a choice even if it goes against your biological programming, for anything else makes a man no more than a beast.
>>157724
your parents made the choice to reproduce, so all of the blame can be traced back to that choice
your parents made the choice to reproduce, so all of the blame can be traced back to that choice
>>157729
>It's just programming
Then I hate the programming, which as you put it, is their essence, which goes right back at me simply hating them. Biological programming isn't nearly as one track oriented as you think. All it would take if for them to think for just a second about the consequences of their actions, an ability we have. All it would take is for them to give a single shit about the life they're making, an ability we have. They either have absolutely no excuse or I cannot be blamed for hating them. It can only be one or the other.
>It's just programming
Then I hate the programming, which as you put it, is their essence, which goes right back at me simply hating them. Biological programming isn't nearly as one track oriented as you think. All it would take if for them to think for just a second about the consequences of their actions, an ability we have. All it would take is for them to give a single shit about the life they're making, an ability we have. They either have absolutely no excuse or I cannot be blamed for hating them. It can only be one or the other.
>>157731
But they do not have said ability. They are either below us and we're the humans, or we are above them and they are the humans - I do not know which. For whatever reason, they simply cannot rise above their programming while we can. They are slaves. I suppose you can hate them if you want to, yet what's the point? They're pitiful creatures. Mon-keigh. I feel no difference between observing a groid and observing a dog or bird or plant.
But they do not have said ability. They are either below us and we're the humans, or we are above them and they are the humans - I do not know which. For whatever reason, they simply cannot rise above their programming while we can. They are slaves. I suppose you can hate them if you want to, yet what's the point? They're pitiful creatures. Mon-keigh. I feel no difference between observing a groid and observing a dog or bird or plant.
>>157695
Yeah I guess you're right, but humans aren't perfect. They were both brought up pretty harsh and saw that as a bad thing, little do they know is it's that upbringing that gave them their spines. They learned from me and have raised my little sister to be a successful person though. Also they paid for me to get therapy for mental health issues (I don't really believe in that kind of stuff but they thought I was depressed and were very worried about me for a number of years), so I know in my heart that they tried. They were married and had me when they were in their (very) early twenties so I can't be mad at a 20-something year old not knowing how to parent well.
>Not to mention the fact that you're here on wiz, which makes me believe that they never really tried to push you in any certain direction whatsoever, I assume. that they in fact just let you drift along the way like some fucking log.
I guess you are not wrong about that, but it's just a perspective thing. They have always supported my interests and have spent a lot of money fixing my mistakes, legal trouble in early teens (no nigger-tier shit fyi). So yeah, they just basically let me be a dweeb and thought I'd end up a scientist or something. If they pushed me to put more effort into a social life and playing sports or whatever other kids did I probably wouldn't be on this site.
>>but they put a roof over my head and food on the table
>whoop de fucking doo. I can do that and I have never had a fucking job.
You seem to be an angry person, I don't know what's happened in your life but everything becomes easier when you learn to forgive those that have wronged you.
Yeah I guess you're right, but humans aren't perfect. They were both brought up pretty harsh and saw that as a bad thing, little do they know is it's that upbringing that gave them their spines. They learned from me and have raised my little sister to be a successful person though. Also they paid for me to get therapy for mental health issues (I don't really believe in that kind of stuff but they thought I was depressed and were very worried about me for a number of years), so I know in my heart that they tried. They were married and had me when they were in their (very) early twenties so I can't be mad at a 20-something year old not knowing how to parent well.
>Not to mention the fact that you're here on wiz, which makes me believe that they never really tried to push you in any certain direction whatsoever, I assume. that they in fact just let you drift along the way like some fucking log.
I guess you are not wrong about that, but it's just a perspective thing. They have always supported my interests and have spent a lot of money fixing my mistakes, legal trouble in early teens (no nigger-tier shit fyi). So yeah, they just basically let me be a dweeb and thought I'd end up a scientist or something. If they pushed me to put more effort into a social life and playing sports or whatever other kids did I probably wouldn't be on this site.
>>but they put a roof over my head and food on the table
>whoop de fucking doo. I can do that and I have never had a fucking job.
You seem to be an angry person, I don't know what's happened in your life but everything becomes easier when you learn to forgive those that have wronged you.
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>>157724
They could have broken the circle. They didn't. And by not breaking the circle, I was wrongly convicted to serving life and death sentence.
Sure, my grandparents and my ancestors all made this mistake, but my parents should have known better, and they made it personal. My beef is with them.
They could have broken the circle. They didn't. And by not breaking the circle, I was wrongly convicted to serving life and death sentence.
Sure, my grandparents and my ancestors all made this mistake, but my parents should have known better, and they made it personal. My beef is with them.
>>157743
If they don't have the ability then I don't either. I do not believe there is significant difference between me and them just because I find their actions to be disgusting. The motivation has a different goal but the exact same origin.
If they don't have the ability then I don't either. I do not believe there is significant difference between me and them just because I find their actions to be disgusting. The motivation has a different goal but the exact same origin.
>>157729
I don't agree with your sentiment. Sure, you can argue about biological programming. And while you are not wrong in that department, I don't agree it's an overhanging biological force (as in unable to choose). That people are biologically destined to seek out ways to spread their genes, and that's that.
For the past 2-3 millennia, there has been talks about human meaning, about their rationality, about their ability, intent and overall potential. Saying that they are the equivalent of a beast, and it just happens to be in the circumstances of civilization is at best naive, at worse intentionally ignorant.
Circumstances change, ability of knowledge change, and I would argue that in the past 150 years, it has increased much, much more then prior population.
Hell, even civilization itself has a much larger impact on a single child then what it is for an animal. If a lion survives being a cub, that's that. If a child survives childhood, suddenly you have a long list of responsibilities, expectations, laws to follow and so on. Saying ignorantly that "oh, biologically you just spawned lol" is dishonest.
I haven't touched on the implications of an upbringing, even. It just sucks overall. Personally, I feel cheated of a decent life by my parents. It may be out of ignorance, intent or anything else, the result is the same. Anxiety, depression, mental agony and overhanging issues that makes it hard to get a normal job at age of 30, a functioning life, and just ability to live content.
Am I at fault for not knowing how to fix a broken foundation without the tools of doing so?
I don't agree with your sentiment. Sure, you can argue about biological programming. And while you are not wrong in that department, I don't agree it's an overhanging biological force (as in unable to choose). That people are biologically destined to seek out ways to spread their genes, and that's that.
For the past 2-3 millennia, there has been talks about human meaning, about their rationality, about their ability, intent and overall potential. Saying that they are the equivalent of a beast, and it just happens to be in the circumstances of civilization is at best naive, at worse intentionally ignorant.
Circumstances change, ability of knowledge change, and I would argue that in the past 150 years, it has increased much, much more then prior population.
Hell, even civilization itself has a much larger impact on a single child then what it is for an animal. If a lion survives being a cub, that's that. If a child survives childhood, suddenly you have a long list of responsibilities, expectations, laws to follow and so on. Saying ignorantly that "oh, biologically you just spawned lol" is dishonest.
I haven't touched on the implications of an upbringing, even. It just sucks overall. Personally, I feel cheated of a decent life by my parents. It may be out of ignorance, intent or anything else, the result is the same. Anxiety, depression, mental agony and overhanging issues that makes it hard to get a normal job at age of 30, a functioning life, and just ability to live content.
Am I at fault for not knowing how to fix a broken foundation without the tools of doing so?
>>157303
With determination one can change his ways to a certain degree, but in the end genetics and environment during childhood mold us
With determination one can change his ways to a certain degree, but in the end genetics and environment during childhood mold us
In the same thought I find myself both having a lot of anger and resentment towards my parents for creating me. And yet also having empathy for their position, that yes I was a mistake, but it wasn't done out of deliberate malice.
They just did what all humans biologically and culturally do when they have the chance. They didn't read David Benatar first. Maybe they didn't meet the eugenical standards to breed. But then on paper they met a lot of the min requirements egghead eugenics comes up with. Decent IQ and jobs, enough $$$ to support a child. idk if eugenics looks at things like personality, socialization and happiness.
And maybe my problem was I was both deficient and high standards towards life. I would have a hard time reaching an average life. But even an average life seems rather pointless to me. So maybe I'm good enough to survive, hold a job, make it to retirement. But I have no motivation or will for it.
They just did what all humans biologically and culturally do when they have the chance. They didn't read David Benatar first. Maybe they didn't meet the eugenical standards to breed. But then on paper they met a lot of the min requirements egghead eugenics comes up with. Decent IQ and jobs, enough $$$ to support a child. idk if eugenics looks at things like personality, socialization and happiness.
And maybe my problem was I was both deficient and high standards towards life. I would have a hard time reaching an average life. But even an average life seems rather pointless to me. So maybe I'm good enough to survive, hold a job, make it to retirement. But I have no motivation or will for it.
>>157305
Holy shit this makes so much sense to me if i look closer. My parents always used to compared me to anything that moved, in terms of grades, behavior even when the latter person is ages younger to me. This has made me subconsciously compare myself to everything. Feel bad when i don't have it, etc. I'll try looking closer into my habits. Thanks for the insight.
Holy shit this makes so much sense to me if i look closer. My parents always used to compared me to anything that moved, in terms of grades, behavior even when the latter person is ages younger to me. This has made me subconsciously compare myself to everything. Feel bad when i don't have it, etc. I'll try looking closer into my habits. Thanks for the insight.
My parents have completely ruined my life. Every single aspect of my life is negatively affected by the presence of my parents. My only goal in life is to one day live alone in an empty house, so I can be free.
Your parents are sort of to blame if you're a human failure. They gave birth to you and raised you
here are what is needed so you don't become a human failure:
>educated mother or father to instill the love of education in you so you don't fail academically
(i didn't have this growing up, so i was in remedial classes and special classes)
>mother or father who teaches you how to drive when you're 16(you need to know how to drive to commute to work and back. if you can't drive your job opportunities are limited) i didn't have this growing up either
>a mother or father who teaches personal finance and money management and simple living(doesn't let you spend your money on dumb luxury items or a shitty college degree)
>a mother or father who will fix your social ineptness early on so you don't have problems later in life(my mother never did this)
here are what is needed so you don't become a human failure:
>educated mother or father to instill the love of education in you so you don't fail academically
(i didn't have this growing up, so i was in remedial classes and special classes)
>mother or father who teaches you how to drive when you're 16(you need to know how to drive to commute to work and back. if you can't drive your job opportunities are limited) i didn't have this growing up either
>a mother or father who teaches personal finance and money management and simple living(doesn't let you spend your money on dumb luxury items or a shitty college degree)
>a mother or father who will fix your social ineptness early on so you don't have problems later in life(my mother never did this)
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I think this is mostly a stupid US thing, where you're the scum of the Earth unless you fight your way out of whatever shitty life circumstances you happen to be in like some incarnation of the American dream.
In more developed countries, even many normies realize that a shitton of it is up to genes and environment. That's why the death penalty has been abolished too, because justice doesn't make sense. Punishment is about protecting society.
In more developed countries, even many normies realize that a shitton of it is up to genes and environment. That's why the death penalty has been abolished too, because justice doesn't make sense. Punishment is about protecting society.
>>158578
The real lucky people are the ones that had parents that were emotionally supportive, attentive and treated you like you matter from the start. The result of such a childhood is a strong confident personality that is able to face adversity in life.
Academics? Learning to drive and keep a checkbook? Talking to people? All of those are the result of a specific kind of personality that will have no problem facing these challenges when they occur. Even if you fail in a particular area, your personality will dictate whether the response will be to ask for help and problem-solve or whether you will withdraw into yourself and be shutdown by adversity.
It's not so much that children need someone to solve all their problems for them, it's something much more simpler - showing love and care, listening to your problems, empathizing etc. This is what creates a certain emotional reality which is foundational to a reasonably good life, the lack of which results in "human failure".
The real lucky people are the ones that had parents that were emotionally supportive, attentive and treated you like you matter from the start. The result of such a childhood is a strong confident personality that is able to face adversity in life.
Academics? Learning to drive and keep a checkbook? Talking to people? All of those are the result of a specific kind of personality that will have no problem facing these challenges when they occur. Even if you fail in a particular area, your personality will dictate whether the response will be to ask for help and problem-solve or whether you will withdraw into yourself and be shutdown by adversity.
It's not so much that children need someone to solve all their problems for them, it's something much more simpler - showing love and care, listening to your problems, empathizing etc. This is what creates a certain emotional reality which is foundational to a reasonably good life, the lack of which results in "human failure".
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yeah…. having super shit parents is a very very very common theme in the lives of adult virgins. especially the relationship with the mother
my relationship with mines is as steryotypical as it can possibly get. she never talked to me like ever. like she ignored me harder than i ignore the female sex, and im a 28 virgin. she literally never talked to me or cared for anything of me in the slightest, etc etc. this is common treatmeant for adult virgins
also whenever i did interact with her, she always screamed at me and was a horrible cunt, and thats literally my only experience with females in my life, so its not a suprise i ended up here. physical looks dont mean anything when you're broken on the inside
in my particular case i actually ran away from home at 16 after dropping out of school because i was fighting with my parents so often and so much, that i prefered being homeless, it was actually less stressful. but i fucked up and told them i was going to kill them because i was so mad at them, and i was charged with uttering threats and had to do diversion and counseling and all this other horseshit, pretend i was taking pills and see all these old hag counselors, w/e. then at 18 i was kicked out of home after my court appointed stay was over, and after going to community college, i dropped out and been on welfare ever since. lel.
with that said, only like 1.5 months ago i have probably by FAR the best interaction with my mother ive ever had in my life. literally not only was it one of the longest stretches of time i spoke to her about ANYTHING, but it went more positively than it ever has. i got my mom to go on a vegan diet after arguing the ethics of eating meat with her, and even my dad. it was almost surreal to even speak with her on friendly positive terms. i used to speak with my dad more often but after a while he gave up on me and stopped trying to talk to me. lol. honestly at this point im not even mad about anything, because just as long as i get to watch ai being born and the singularity happen its whatever at this point, i just accepted my lot in life. honestly, it would easily be worse, even with all of my depression i think its wrong for me to complain
in terms of forgiveness, now thats another issue. orginally i was down to do so because i was into the bible, but now that i have a hard time following the bible i have a harder time forgiving my parents for being childism abusive turbo-cunts and my mother never loving me, etc. its probably correct to forgive them, but at the same time its also harder to do so when they dont even admit to any wrong doing. literally my mom denies that she never loved me or cared for me, despite going like 8 years atleast without even speaking to eachother
i think revenge is wrong, because i very strongly believe that 2 wrongs dont make a right. honestly, what all of this does is it really makes me hate god more than anything. like the amount of injustice and suffering and pain thats in this world, and god just smugly understands it all but doesnt care to change any of it, is what makes me feel god is a evil malevolent demon. ive turned my hatred of my mother towards god, in a way
hopefully overtime their ability to be empathetic increases. one of the cooler things about vegans is they literally have larger sections of their brain associated with empathy, and its directly co-related with the amount of meat that you consume. now that my parents are vegan, over time their empathetic part of their brain will grow larger and larger, which means statistically some of that empathy will be towards me. heres a picture of the empathy levels of diet and brain scans
my relationship with mines is as steryotypical as it can possibly get. she never talked to me like ever. like she ignored me harder than i ignore the female sex, and im a 28 virgin. she literally never talked to me or cared for anything of me in the slightest, etc etc. this is common treatmeant for adult virgins
also whenever i did interact with her, she always screamed at me and was a horrible cunt, and thats literally my only experience with females in my life, so its not a suprise i ended up here. physical looks dont mean anything when you're broken on the inside
in my particular case i actually ran away from home at 16 after dropping out of school because i was fighting with my parents so often and so much, that i prefered being homeless, it was actually less stressful. but i fucked up and told them i was going to kill them because i was so mad at them, and i was charged with uttering threats and had to do diversion and counseling and all this other horseshit, pretend i was taking pills and see all these old hag counselors, w/e. then at 18 i was kicked out of home after my court appointed stay was over, and after going to community college, i dropped out and been on welfare ever since. lel.
with that said, only like 1.5 months ago i have probably by FAR the best interaction with my mother ive ever had in my life. literally not only was it one of the longest stretches of time i spoke to her about ANYTHING, but it went more positively than it ever has. i got my mom to go on a vegan diet after arguing the ethics of eating meat with her, and even my dad. it was almost surreal to even speak with her on friendly positive terms. i used to speak with my dad more often but after a while he gave up on me and stopped trying to talk to me. lol. honestly at this point im not even mad about anything, because just as long as i get to watch ai being born and the singularity happen its whatever at this point, i just accepted my lot in life. honestly, it would easily be worse, even with all of my depression i think its wrong for me to complain
in terms of forgiveness, now thats another issue. orginally i was down to do so because i was into the bible, but now that i have a hard time following the bible i have a harder time forgiving my parents for being childism abusive turbo-cunts and my mother never loving me, etc. its probably correct to forgive them, but at the same time its also harder to do so when they dont even admit to any wrong doing. literally my mom denies that she never loved me or cared for me, despite going like 8 years atleast without even speaking to eachother
i think revenge is wrong, because i very strongly believe that 2 wrongs dont make a right. honestly, what all of this does is it really makes me hate god more than anything. like the amount of injustice and suffering and pain thats in this world, and god just smugly understands it all but doesnt care to change any of it, is what makes me feel god is a evil malevolent demon. ive turned my hatred of my mother towards god, in a way
hopefully overtime their ability to be empathetic increases. one of the cooler things about vegans is they literally have larger sections of their brain associated with empathy, and its directly co-related with the amount of meat that you consume. now that my parents are vegan, over time their empathetic part of their brain will grow larger and larger, which means statistically some of that empathy will be towards me. heres a picture of the empathy levels of diet and brain scans
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>>158611
i dont understand why but it didnt accept more than 1 picture at a time
i dont understand why but it didnt accept more than 1 picture at a time
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>>158722
pretty sure statistically the same as the ones who get "honey" but not "milk
most of the adult virgins studied in the book came from wealthy parents, but ended up in abject poverty working minimum wage jobs, despite otherwise above average education. if you're dead on the inside, that statistically transfers over to the outside
if your parents, especially mother, never loved you, you grow up and die a mentally ill poor loser. atleast statistically speaking
sorry. heres the last picture i have talking about parents. i dont even know, i feel like for me im just waiting for the singularity and ai to take over the world, at this point. ive given up on ever being a productive member of society, of holding a job, of reproducing (LOL), etc etc. tbh i remember even when i was 16 i was the only kid in the class who said he didnt want to have kids, so i basically knew i was never going to reproduce
pretty sure statistically the same as the ones who get "honey" but not "milk
most of the adult virgins studied in the book came from wealthy parents, but ended up in abject poverty working minimum wage jobs, despite otherwise above average education. if you're dead on the inside, that statistically transfers over to the outside
if your parents, especially mother, never loved you, you grow up and die a mentally ill poor loser. atleast statistically speaking
sorry. heres the last picture i have talking about parents. i dont even know, i feel like for me im just waiting for the singularity and ai to take over the world, at this point. ive given up on ever being a productive member of society, of holding a job, of reproducing (LOL), etc etc. tbh i remember even when i was 16 i was the only kid in the class who said he didnt want to have kids, so i basically knew i was never going to reproduce
>>158611
>larger sections of their brain associated with empathy
I know this isnt a conspiracy theory discussion board but you have to realize how bad that sounds. Making you more empathetic is exactly what something that deserves no empathy wants (aka the government).
>larger sections of their brain associated with empathy
I know this isnt a conspiracy theory discussion board but you have to realize how bad that sounds. Making you more empathetic is exactly what something that deserves no empathy wants (aka the government).
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>>158794
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0010847
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/44646890_The_Brain_Functional_Networks_Associated_to_Human_and_Animal_Suffering_Differ_among_Omnivores_Vegetarians_and_Vegans
sorry, i guess i didnt like sources. its easy to find the sources if you just do a quick reverse image search on google, but i guess not everyone knows that, so here you go
>I know this isnt a conspiracy theory discussion board but you have to realize how bad that sounds
i literally linked you science that found this. i literally have scientific evidence that i provided you
>Making you more empathetic is exactly what something that deserves no empathy wants
i dont understand whats your problem with empathy and compassion?
if a wizard posted that he got bullied in school a lot, and his brother who also got bullied in school commited suicide, and he was on the verge of doing so, would you have empathy for him?
if a small child got killed by a serial killer, would you be empathetic to the grieving mother?
are you saying that people who want to make you empathetic to a cause deserve no empathy? how about the homeless? are you saying that organizations that help the homeless deserve no empathy?
how about organizations that help save dogs from dog fighting and dog abuse. are you saying those organizations dont deserve empathy?
the reason why i brought up the brain studies, was to show that a vegan diet is one way to increase your empathy, because the brain is plastic and subject to change. a huge amount of depressed virgins in wizchan have extremely umempathetic parents. literally so many accounts on this website of virgins who complain about how badly their parents treat them, ive read accounts like this for years
my own experience is typical; my parents never loved me and hated me and abused me for years. i literally ran away at 16 and jumped in and out of homeless shelters because me and my parents were fighting so much. just horrible unloving shit people, especially my mother
im just showing scientifically proven evidence that shows how to reverse this lack of empathy that their parents have towards them, thats all. no need to get mad at science
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0010847
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/44646890_The_Brain_Functional_Networks_Associated_to_Human_and_Animal_Suffering_Differ_among_Omnivores_Vegetarians_and_Vegans
sorry, i guess i didnt like sources. its easy to find the sources if you just do a quick reverse image search on google, but i guess not everyone knows that, so here you go
>I know this isnt a conspiracy theory discussion board but you have to realize how bad that sounds
i literally linked you science that found this. i literally have scientific evidence that i provided you
>Making you more empathetic is exactly what something that deserves no empathy wants
i dont understand whats your problem with empathy and compassion?
if a wizard posted that he got bullied in school a lot, and his brother who also got bullied in school commited suicide, and he was on the verge of doing so, would you have empathy for him?
if a small child got killed by a serial killer, would you be empathetic to the grieving mother?
are you saying that people who want to make you empathetic to a cause deserve no empathy? how about the homeless? are you saying that organizations that help the homeless deserve no empathy?
how about organizations that help save dogs from dog fighting and dog abuse. are you saying those organizations dont deserve empathy?
the reason why i brought up the brain studies, was to show that a vegan diet is one way to increase your empathy, because the brain is plastic and subject to change. a huge amount of depressed virgins in wizchan have extremely umempathetic parents. literally so many accounts on this website of virgins who complain about how badly their parents treat them, ive read accounts like this for years
my own experience is typical; my parents never loved me and hated me and abused me for years. i literally ran away at 16 and jumped in and out of homeless shelters because me and my parents were fighting so much. just horrible unloving shit people, especially my mother
im just showing scientifically proven evidence that shows how to reverse this lack of empathy that their parents have towards them, thats all. no need to get mad at science
>>158900
Even if that is true, there is at least value in understanding the wizard condition. It's no accident were are either unconcerned with intimacy or react so negatively to it. Wizardhood is not a philosophical doctrine, it's an emotional reaction primarily, a defense against a cruel world.
My own wizardhood is the result of this neurotic need for self-sufficiency, to be wholly sufficient in myself, to never be dependent on another human being. My ideal self is undisturbed by others opinion and action, he lives in a separate world and attains freedom from the usual constraints of being human. No wonder I was immediately drawn to this website and its themes.
Even if that is true, there is at least value in understanding the wizard condition. It's no accident were are either unconcerned with intimacy or react so negatively to it. Wizardhood is not a philosophical doctrine, it's an emotional reaction primarily, a defense against a cruel world.
My own wizardhood is the result of this neurotic need for self-sufficiency, to be wholly sufficient in myself, to never be dependent on another human being. My ideal self is undisturbed by others opinion and action, he lives in a separate world and attains freedom from the usual constraints of being human. No wonder I was immediately drawn to this website and its themes.
Blaming your parents is regarded as bad, because it's easy to scapegoat them when you're unwilling to make improvements in your life. It is the same as blaming genes.
I'm not arguing that your upbringing and your genetics are not almost entirely responsible for your current state. They obviously are. However, maintaining the idea that they are entirely to blame puts you in a mindset where you're unwilling to make any improvements on your life, because you believe there is no way out. Your parents may have done some good things and you may have some latent intellectual abilities that just haven't been used to improve your life yet. Somebody with learned helplessness may realize that things could improve if they kept trying.
The main point is to continue strugglibf when it seems as though you are doomed by fate. You aren't necessarily doomed, even if that is how you perceive it.
I'm not arguing that your upbringing and your genetics are not almost entirely responsible for your current state. They obviously are. However, maintaining the idea that they are entirely to blame puts you in a mindset where you're unwilling to make any improvements on your life, because you believe there is no way out. Your parents may have done some good things and you may have some latent intellectual abilities that just haven't been used to improve your life yet. Somebody with learned helplessness may realize that things could improve if they kept trying.
The main point is to continue strugglibf when it seems as though you are doomed by fate. You aren't necessarily doomed, even if that is how you perceive it.
>>157317
>existence itself is the root cause of all evil and no single person can really be held responsible
truly scary shit
>existence itself is the root cause of all evil and no single person can really be held responsible
truly scary shit
>>159066
The blame is for all up until now. It includes all continued attempts to improve. Worthless improvement that it is.
The blame is for all up until now. It includes all continued attempts to improve. Worthless improvement that it is.
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>>157309
This is one of the tenets of buddhism, conditioned generation. Existence is suffering and it goes on a never ending chain of events that go beyond your own birth
This is one of the tenets of buddhism, conditioned generation. Existence is suffering and it goes on a never ending chain of events that go beyond your own birth
>>157729
>I often spent entire nights standing with a knife outside my biological parents bedroom debating intensely whether I should go in and kill them as they sleep for the unforgivable crime they committed by forcing me into existence
And this is another reason antinatalism is good. Imagine having a psycho that can kill you as a son a be killed while you sleep
>I often spent entire nights standing with a knife outside my biological parents bedroom debating intensely whether I should go in and kill them as they sleep for the unforgivable crime they committed by forcing me into existence
And this is another reason antinatalism is good. Imagine having a psycho that can kill you as a son a be killed while you sleep