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File: 1580637428515.jpg (18.72 KB, 240x255, 16:17, fishingwiz.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

 No.164379[Last 50 Posts]

You know the drill

You set out lots of plans, a reading list and goals for the month

Yet somehow, the lack of external pressure or accountability means that you end up doing nothing but looking at degenerate erotica and hating yourself

Has anyone successfully broken this cycle?

I know there are things that can help this such as:
> Accountability groups
> Going ((outside))
> Broadvice, health diet therapy etc..

Yet the issue is that i am not going to do any of that shit, i didn't ten years ago and i'm not going got start now

The best thing i can think of is creating my own fantasy world where, through the power of imagination, i change my self perception and create a world in which i am a wizard with wizard duties such as scholarly learning, collecting firewood and such things and live my life through a fantasy.

But again, the issue comes from being alone without external drivers, but maybe this can be overcome by more extreme forms of isolation and delusion.

 No.164389

I think a good way to get yourself to do things is by changing your perception. Rationally, you might believe that a certain thing is good for you, but your perception of the activity might differ and cause friction and result in procrastination. The greeks termed this problem as akrasia, a weakness of will where you act against your better judgement. I think it arises out of the difference in judgement between your rational, higher level cognition and your lower level intuition and perception. In which case it's possible to want to do something and believe that it is truly good, yet find yourself unable to do it because another part of you blocks you.

How do you get over it? Well, first take notice of how you perceive the activity. For instance, you might rationally believe that reading is good and yet your perception of the activity is one of dread, boredom, reluctance, aversion and so on. What's needed is not to fight yourself, but to focus on changing that perception through an intuitive grasp of a different frame in which you will be compelled to read. In that frame, the prominent features are ones that compel you to read by making reading appear fun, engaging, interesting and so on (whatever seems attractive to you). Essentially, focus on changing the appearance of reading so that the activity becomes effortless and enjoyable. If the appearance changes back, you simply do it again. Eventually, this 'attractive' frame will stabilize and become habitual.

 No.164390

Why even do anything? If you actually wanted to read, you'd read. You wouldn't be making posts on wizchan about how you want to read so you make reading lists and goals that you never complete. It's clear that you don't want to, if you wanted to, you would. Simple as that.

Plus what are you even reading for?

 No.164392

>>164379
>Yet somehow, the lack of external pressure or accountability means that you end up doing nothing but looking at degenerate erotica and hating yourself
>and hating yourself
So the internal pressure and self-accountability works just as well. You don't need that. I don't set out a lot of plans and goals, I only have a few important ones. I don't need a reading list, I have the saved .pdfs waiting to be read.

 No.164393

>>164389
It's called being lazy, not "akrasia".

 No.164394

>>164393
Well, that would be the psychologically ignorant term that aims to reduce away the problem to a bad character trait without trying to understand the complex realities around human motivation and behavior.

 No.164395

>>164390
This sounds too simplistic, but I really think it is as simple as this as well.

 No.164397

>>164390
This is correct.

The secret is throwing any unhealthy learned guilt. We have a toxic culture now that punishes idleness. Old asian cultures were not so bad, like Taoism

 No.164410

>>164379
If you want to do something it is crucial to develop a habit. Once you have developed a habit it is easy then you just do it. The problem is to develop this habit. My advice is make again a list, but this time of things you actually did. Maybe you watched an anime and felt good afterwards or watched a movie or maybe you have already read a book. Then just do the things that felt easiest for you to do. Then you only have to do that for 2weeks or so and then you will have a habit and then it is easy to maintain that hobby.

I don't know if that helps you. But maybe you give it a shot. If that fails too then you have to cut out the most time consuming things. Lets say you are wasting your time online then you should stay offline for lets say 3days or so. And try to do something within that period of time.

If that fails too then I guess it is hopeless. As I am in a similar situation than you I know how difficult it is to actually do something. Especially if you have anhedonia. It is nearly impossible to motivate you.

Maybe you should also try to develop meditation as a hobby. I mean that is difficult too, but the only thing you have to do is sit somewhere and do nothing but breathe.

 No.164513

>>164410
Good advise

 No.164516

I find that is useful to just have some time every day with no distractions. Maybe an hour or so of no music, no computer, nothing. Use this time to think about what things are important to you and to analyse if you are happy with how you are spending your time. I find that I tend to go into a sort of auto pilot if I don't do something like this.

 No.164517

>>164516
I'd be happy sitting in an empty room pretty much, or just nature or something

Through mindful depression i have been able to suppress my Will to new levels, a similar way to those Ancient Greek Philosophers who could hold their breath until they died.

Not quite there yet though

 No.164523

>>164517
It's been a whole week still no answers wtf is this place

 No.164525

File: 1581256691939.png (858.55 KB, 1280x823, 1280:823, sig uncle ted edition.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>164379
Take the Ted pill to become disciplined, OP.

 No.164527

>>164394
Love you.

Really, you're right, and I would add one may increase appetite for words by realizing every language is the great remains of genius in the world. Read to understand words, not particular words, but all of them and their juxtapositions as symbols of consciousness. Then, producing this stable "attractive" state will be a friction desired for traction, as part of Deus ex machina or Deus ex lingua, balanced by other states of frictionless and fluxional logos, so that one at last cannot have one's flank turned, but place him where you will, in whatsoever action or circumstance, and he stands.

 No.164535

>>164525
This is incredibly comfy, can you post more Uncle Ted letters, better yet, is there a complete archive of them?

Self-discipline, i shall achieve this

 No.164548

>>164525
this is so mundane. that guy definitely is not the genius he is made out to be…
are the morons who write to him aware that they are going on some sort of police watchlist

>the ability to remain calm and self-possessed under all circumstances wins respect

rich coming from a serial killer.

 No.164549

>>164548
He was quite calm and self-possessed about his killings, it wouldn't go for so long if he wasn't.

 No.164551

>>164549
you're not wrong, but at the risk of sounding like a 'moralfag' that hardly is something worth praising. tk's intellectual output is really not what it's hyped up to be either honestly, and you'd be much better served by reading the thinkers who actually influenced him. he is no hero, just a useful idiot at best like most famous terrorists (when they're not controlled opposition…) and to contact him as a lay person is stupid beyond belief for the reason I have mentioned.
armchair psychology and shit but this fascination reminds me of the attraction some unhinged succubi feel toward convicted serial rapists and killers

 No.164584

>>164551
Ted never claimed to be an original thinker if you go and look at some of the other stuff that he has written. It's only people on imageboards that seem to make it out like he was revealing some grand revelation. I once read him writing somewhere that what he planned for ISAIF was that it would be a sort of dumbed down and condensed version of Jacques Ellul's The Technological Society - which is a book too long and verbose for most normalfags.

 No.164607

File: 1581367607374.png (191.89 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 1580906167278.png) ImgOps iqdb

If you don't want to do something, you're not going to do it unless someone points a gun at you. When you make goals and resolutions, it's not that you actually want to do those activities for the sake of doing those activities. It's that you want to BE different than you are right now. In order to start doing those things effortlessly, you have to turn into somebody that does those things effortlessly. Which is extremely difficult for a NEET like me, which is why I've been suspended in animation for 8 years.

In order to be different from the way you are right now, you need to change the way your brain works. In order to change the way your brain works, you need to get out of bad cycles. In order to get out of bad cycles, you need to be different than the way you are right now. Such is the infernal NEET cycle. If I could (a.k.a. wanted to) break free, I wouldn't be here.

Nothing will ever have the same effort to reward ratio as NEETing out.

 No.164611

Thank you for making this thread. Bumping for interest.

 No.164641

>>164548
>This is so mundane
The topic of self-improvement generally is. Not sure what all you'd expect him to say.

 No.164642

>>164641
I wouldn't expect him to answer to such trite (what quality an individual should aspire to? seriously?) to begin with, but he must be pretty bored where he is, and I guess the general level of his correspondents must be pretty low anyway…

 No.164666

>>164642
Ted wants a revolutionary movement to dismantle the technological society, it's not all that surprising that he'd attempt to guide sympathetic individuals in the right direction.

 No.164667

>>164666
The technological society is simply a result of human desires. People wanted to live in the city because there were jobs and pussy there.

 No.164668

>>164667
And look what that has created today - urban hellscapes where wage-slaves go to and from work endlessly, working away their best years and shitting out more future wage-slaves and continuously expanding and expanding urban areas and soulless suburbs. And the funniest part is that even they're not happy. Every year normalfags off themselves and higher rates, report higher levels of anxiety, depression (of the normalfag variety, but still) and the like and feel that life is meaningless. It's no surprise that working your life away for some megacorporation for thirty plus years before retiring old and decrepit fucks with someone if they're too much of a lemming to wake up and get off their rail. Their entire society should be destroyed, but sadly it will never happen under direct human volition as Ted thinks it will. It will blow up under its own contradictions one day whether ten years from now or a few centuries from now, and masses of domesticated normalfags will starve and perish because they can't function autonomously or live without their material objects. I am just glad that I live in an era still where there is still the slightest chance of opting out of the hellworld that has been imposed on humanity and eventually going full hermit-mode. I will kill myself before I ever work one day as a wagecuck.

 No.164669

>>164668
You are too negative. People had it much worse back then. Wars, scarcity of food, epidemy.

If society was to crumble, survivors would just form new communities and produce new technologies to finally arrive exactly where we are now. Because we are driven by our desires, technology cannot be avoided. There is nothing we can do.

 No.164670

>>164666
If he truly wanted to help them achieve that revolution he would tell them not to contact him. That's like asking to be monitored.

 No.164671

>>164669
>Wars
The deadliest wars in human history both occurred within the last one hundred or so years and had a scale of destruction far worse than anything witnessed before so in the entirety of human history (mass-destruction of cities, atomic bombings, etc).

In regards to scarcity of foods and occasional diseases, who cares? Life has been made objectively far more meaningless than in the past, and people unhealthier and mentally unbalanced than ever before, with natural communities blown up and destroyed, people atomized, the environment plundered for endless shekels and breeders breeding. A safer, less "cruel" world has been made more dehumanized and far crueler than ever than Nature could be in many ways. If anything diseases pose a much larger threat today in certain respects since we live in a globalized and connected world where some weird jungle disease can end up on the other side of the globe within 18 hours max.

Progress is not inevitable, technology can regress, at least complex types that require lots of social organization in order for them to function (water systems, electricity, steady supplies of gasoline for cars, etc). Much of what we have today would quickly become useless even in the short term with a partial collapse. Though, I am blackpilled that this mythical collapse will ever come, and so, like I said, I will eventually simply drop out of society and try to live the life that I actually want to, regardless of what normalfags decide to do with their lives since I am one person and cannot stop them.

 No.164675

>>164671
>blackpilled

 No.164677

>>164669
>People had it much worse back then
how many people were depressed back then? and if society were to crumble it is not necessarily true that we would get back to the same point. it was white people that got us so far, the africans and native americans were happy with their way of life.

 No.164678

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>>164677
The depressed either made themselves get over it and got a job so they could eat, or died. That's an absolutely retarded metric.

 No.164686

>>164671
If another tribe has a technological advantage over you, they will conquer and rule you. Thus technological progress is not avoidable as it is simply an expression of human survival.

Everything else does not matter. Also I dont see you leaving society yet which means your body prefers his current state than being exposed to the great outdoors

 No.164709

>>164607

So what you are saying is that i don't really want to change, or i would have changed already?

But i'm saying that because i question this is often, there is a majority of my brain tasked towards learning and improvement that can overcome the inertia of isolation, i just have to figure out how to tap into that power.

As you said, once i'm there, it will be like a positive spiral and i will be out of the inertia.

>>164668
> I am just glad that I live in an era still where there is still the slightest chance of opting out of the hellworld that has been imposed on humanity and eventually going full hermit-mode. I will kill myself before I ever work one day as a wagecuck.

Truer words have never been spoken, Teddie and Orwell would be proud :')

>>164669

Haha no, you wont be able to get back to the level of Industrialisation now once collapse happens :))

 No.164717

>>164709
Stop using those faggot emoticons.

 No.164719

>>164709
What make you think collapse will happen anytime soon? Why would known technologies be forgotten forever ?

 No.164728

>>164709
Im not saying that you don't want to change. I'm saying that you aren't somebody who *will* change. In order to start doing something and have it be effortless and amazing, you need to change into someone who will start doing something in an effortless way.

So my advice isn't "give up". My advice is make the decision to *be* different than you are right now, inside and out, before you expect things to be easy and effortless. *Being* isn't and shouldn't be a passive thing. *Be* someone who does things effortlessly and doesn't let porn and YouTube keep him from reading a book and doing pullups.

 No.164764

>>164717
I don't think so kissy boy ;)

>>164719
>Why would known technologies be forgotten forever?

They wouldn't be forgotten it's the fact that they literally cannot be mined again due to the level of tech needed to mine them requires the mined material.

>>164728
>My advice is make the decision to *be* different than you are right now, inside and out, before you expect things to be easy and effortless. *Being* isn't and shouldn't be a passive thing

I don't know about that, i'm always going to like porn and staying up to 4am playing vidya eating nuggets, that's just how it is, i don't get the same dopamine hit from socialising, going to the gym, learning something new or anything.

So while i disagree i'll tell you how i might approach this, since i don't think i'm going to get any other opinions here since it's pretty quiet around here.

I'll try stripping back my ability to engage in distracting and easy dopamine tasks, then in that vacuum, after pushing through the boredom, my brain should adapt to engaging in the available options, which will be things that i want to do, but won't under regular circumstances.

 No.164782

>>164764
Ah yes the good old times before electricity
>farm that crop for the rest of your life and give me a part of your grains or ill kill you. You are not allowed to do anything other than that because its reserved for my family which is superior by blood.>
Also you have to pay a tax for salt, your primary mineral need.

Good times indeed

 No.164802

File: 1581589331326.jpg (208.62 KB, 795x1000, 159:200, 1539630549133.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>164764
>i'm always going to like porn and staying up to 4am playing vidya eating nuggets
yeah everyone likes doing that. so you can either be a normal human that takes the path of least resistance, or you can decide to be someone that eschews his vices in favor of betterment. And I'm not saying go to the gym and go socialize. I'm saying become stronger and wiser and better informed and more skilled at things that you like. But before you become any of those things you need to decide to *be* a different person than you are right now. Becuase right now you are someone who is "always going to like porn and staying up to 4am playing vidya eating nuggets". Which is fine. But you're going to stay that way until you *really* decide that you don't want to be that way any more.

Instead of focusing on "doing" something different or trying to add a new habit to your life, focus on trying to be someone who would do that naturally and effortlessly. Try to wake up tomorrow morning and say "Ok, today is going to be different, because I'm going to behave like the kind of person that I want to be."

It's really hard. But having the willpower to change who you are is the key to real happiness.

 No.164804

>>164379
I can't bullshit me when the only thing really worth doing in life is to end it.

 No.164814

File: 1581608717044.jpg (1.42 MB, 3840x2160, 16:9, BasedLinkola.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>164802
I disagree, if only for the fact that i can't even picture being that person.

All the things i listed, they are biochemical reactions to inputs, it's not like i am going to be able to change how my brain responds. Or maybe you think i can..

The point is that i need to remove these things from my environment for good and i'm seriously considering living in an austere manner to that i can avoid all electrical equipment that can give me that dopamine hit, reset my transmitters and see what simple, pious life i can eke out for myself.

But again the problem comes down to motivation. If i am content to simply harvest a couple potatoes and leeks each day and risk dying in the cold woods or something, what does that say about who i am?

Someone who is so extremely lazy they would avoid getting a job just to die in the woods?

I seriously surprise myself with the level of immaturity, yet, i know the reasons and can't see a way out directly.

I am speaking to someone, but my feelings about jobs and also about all the things listed remains and won't change.

 No.164846

File: 1581735360820.jpg (393.63 KB, 1000x1409, 1000:1409, 1553900700373.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>164814
You can't picture being a person that does what he wants? You've become wrapped up in your own inability. Time to do a hard reset.

 No.164847

I am struggling with this as well so I can't provide a legitimate answer without being disingenuous about its efficacy. I think it helps relieve the hating of the self by knowing that a lot of us struggle with similar circumstances and are trying to overcome it. Let's do our best.

 No.164848

File: 1581776556223.jpg (46.02 KB, 384x384, 1:1, waterhut.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>164846
>You can't picture being a person that does what he wants?

Serious?

I didn't mean that, that much should be clear.

I'm saying that on some level i am doing what i want, otherwise i would change.

There is a big part of me that wants change, but a larger part that resists it.

I'm a prisoner of my own bad habits and past failures

My plan, in a way, is to do a hard reset, by removing myself from my surroundings and access to comforts. Also to delve further into my psyche and reveal who this person is who would rather die than get a normal job and why i came to this point.

 No.164861

>>164846
> lol juts get over urself bro, just be competent and able instead of weak and shit, live n b hapi breh :^)

 No.164914

File: 1582035576652.png (82.05 KB, 180x255, 12:17, forestwizz.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>164379
Not only a lack of drive, but this week i have been feeling very strange, i wonder if anyone can comment on it, safe for any depression and/or anhedonia comments.

I have been feeling like all my senses are giving me falsehoods, like, what i am feeling and experiencing is just some form of sense data that i have no interest in pursuing.

I don't necessarily feel bad from it, apart from eating, staying warm and hygiene, all else seems rather illusory, yet, even when i try and attain higher forms of consciousness, all that ends up happening is i sit in my room for hours staring at a wall. If that did anything then why aren't prisoners in solitary confinement divinely inspired.

I'm still researching and doing my ten minutes a day, but apart from that, i'm struggling to see what isn't illusion or busy-work at this pioint.

 No.164915

File: 1582037262696.jpg (63.18 KB, 725x472, 725:472, 037d271a06363a76c4c818935c….jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>164914
>If that did anything then why aren't prisoners in solitary confinement divinely inspired.
Krishna, the avatar of the supreme god Vishnu, has the ability to swallow the whole universe. During the Mahabharata War Krishna becomes Arjuna's mentor and chooses to be the charioteer throughout his fight with his 100 brothers during which he teaches about everything to know about the universe in the holy Bhagavad Gita.
Similarly, during sermons given by Buddha, the adepts would listen to it and continue to meditate for hours in a trance-like state based on the sermon given to attain enlightenment.
It's really difficult to attain wisdom without the aid of a guru. You need a mentor to guide you through the path of enlightenment.

 No.164921

>>164915
Strange post, filled with wisdom.

 No.164922

>>164915
how the fuck are you supposed to get guru if you're a hermit though?

 No.164923

>>164861
go back to /dep/, you obviously don't want to hone your wizardry

 No.164924

File: 1582070920987.jpg (413.8 KB, 1600x1200, 4:3, IMG-20130530-00103.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>164922
Wisdom through Life experiences and suffering, like Buddha.

 No.164933

>>164924
I think Buddha even himself studied under a couple of hermits before going his own way.

 No.164939

>buddhist shit
[-]

 No.164946

File: 1582123872498.jpg (1.34 MB, 1500x1022, 750:511, monk walk final.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>164915
Many people get tripped up by thinking they need a guru or a teacher to show them the way

The amount of charlatans out there makes this a very risky business

Plus, isn't the 'Kingdom of Heaven' within? Are not all my answers within me?

Can i not ask for wisdom from the subconscious mind?

I believe the guru theory held up better when there were no books or the internet

People forget how many thousand of years the oral tradition needed to be used in order to pass on wisdom

 No.164947

Just love these dumb westerners thinking meditation is something complicated or supposed to have mystical trance inducing powers

Meditation is simply letting your mind wander, just like when you hike for a long time

As for buddhism its dumb as shit, it pretends you can escape from the eternal circle of reincarnation by behaving well in this life.
Hell no, we are never gong away from the living, we are condemned to be born again and suffer indefinitely as long as life in this universe exists

 No.164948

>>164379
this is literally my life.

the predicament of always being alone, and never having had any romantic partner prevents me from accomplishing any of my goals. i usually just end up doing my goals little less at a time, until i just stop doing them altogether. i always give up in the end because i feel like i'm always be a lonely and a miserable fuck. and who wants to be around a miserable fuck who is lonely? fuck my life…

 No.164949

>>164947
>calls people dumb westerners
>goes on to think of reincarnation as something other than a metaphor

 No.164950

File: 1582133176379.png (1.12 MB, 960x626, 480:313, 0c9deb4a9f886439a949e88b7d….png) ImgOps iqdb

>>164948
>i usually just end up doing my goals little less at a time, until i just stop doing them altogether. i always give up in the end because i feel like i'm always be a lonely and a miserable fuck. and who wants to be around a miserable fuck who is lonely? fuck my life…

Life is already pointless and meaningless and harsh, add to that a life without others and it becomes even harder to bear. No matter what anyone says, it's hard being alone. Worse if you live knowing that you'll stay like that forever. Much worse if you know that any dream of a good life will only remain as such.

 No.164951

>>164950
>>164948
I think crabs.co is more your speed

 No.164953

>>164949
Yeah, most people whether they believe in it or not, think reincarnation is a genuine eastern idea and not bullshit some western occultists basically made up in the XIXth century.

 No.164954

>>164950
>Worse if you live knowing that you'll stay like that forever.

i dont think that's a good way to think. i know there is a possibility of friends and a romantic partner, as there are infinite futures, depending on the choices you make. my point was this. as a result of having such a void and lonely life, it feels like getting these basic needs most people take for granted is almost impossible. making your wants and needs of social connection and companionship feels like climbing the highest mountain.

getting a life coach could actually help, but you need someone who can really help you out and in some cases come out with you to certain social settings to push you and tell you your shortcomings and mistakes on being social/interacting with succubi.

 No.164955

>>164954
I never mentioned succubi in my post.

 No.164957

>>164949
You didnt exist before your birth
Thus consciousness can awake from nothing
Sorry dude but death doesnt exist and there will be no eternal rest

 No.164958

>>164955
i said wamen but it was changed

>>164957
from having countless OBEs, sorry to break it to you, but there is no such thing as "death". you simply change realities as you leave this one.

 No.164962

File: 1582142924417.png (95.48 KB, 216x274, 108:137, 75d1d36175605bebcbacaa799b….png) ImgOps iqdb

>>164954
>>164950
>>164948
>the predicament of always being alone, and never having had any romantic partner prevents me from accomplishing any of my goals
>Get a life coach to help you get succs bro
camwhore fodder

 No.164963

>>164957
>You didnt exist before your birth
"you" are just an extension of society spawned out of your parents, you're not an island

 No.164964

>>164963
Completely missed the point

>>164958
Brain death =/ death

 No.164965

>>164964
>>164958
Pretty sure both of you are arguing the same side.

 No.165025

>>164965
Are there just two bots that go around de-railing threads and arguing with each other?

Seems to happen more often than not

Putting my guru comment back up

>Many people get tripped up by thinking they need a guru or a teacher to show them the way


>The amount of charlatans out there makes this a very risky business


>Plus, isn't the 'Kingdom of Heaven' within? Are not all my answers within me?


>Can i not ask for wisdom from the subconscious mind?


>I believe the guru theory held up better when there were no books or the internet


>People forget how many thousand of years the oral tradition needed to be used in order to pass on wisdom

 No.165034

>>164933
You're correct.

>>164939
Hylic normieshit.

>>164946
I agree with you to a certain extent. You can definitely get there by yourself, but having a teacher makes it much easier. Think of it like trying to climb a mountain with no experience or training. Sure, you might try and make it. But receiving instruction from someone who has done it before will make it much much easier.

>As for buddhism its dumb as shit, it pretends you can escape from the eternal circle of reincarnation by behaving well in this life.

Thanks for exposing your ignorance, you hylic retard. You've never read the Pali canon, you don't know jack shit about Buddhism.

 No.165035

Meant to reply with the last part of >>165034 to >>164947.

>>164946
Also, claiming that "the internet and books" can replace a wise teacher is erroneous. Most books are trash, and most of the internet is trash, and you'd be wasting your time with most things. This is another reason why having a knowledgeable instructor is essential. He can point you towards the truth.

 No.165037

>>165034
>Nirvana ends the cycle of Dukkha and rebirth in the six realms of Saṃsāra (Buddhism).[102][note 2] >It is part of the Four Noble Truths doctrine of Buddhism, which plays an essential role in Theravada Buddhism

"Trust me bro, ceasing to desire will stop you from being reborn again. Disregard that its a completely baseless religious belief that goes against my basic teachings of rationality research"

 No.165038

>>165037
Thanks for exposing your ignorance, drooling retard. You don't know the first thing about Buddhism. Keep quoting Wikipedia, you hylic dog.

 No.165039

i lack the greed andbambition necessary to become rich. plus my entire existence as a poorfag has trained my brain to feel only pain and agony if i spend money. since i dont need money as a neet, nothing that im forced to buy, i cant justify the stress of working to acquire money when it doesnt benefit me in the present. im unable to work toward goals that are longer than 2 months, that is the max time frame i can think about

 No.165046

>>165038
Heard your insults, awaiting for your arguments

 No.165049

>>165046
What is there to argue? You didn't present any arguments yourself. You quoted Wikipedia, you haven't read the Pali canon, you don't remotely understand Buddhism. There is nothing to reply to.

It's not an insult if it's true.

Maybe make an argument before you want an argument.

 No.165050

>>165049
You dont seem very enlightened yourself anon. The correct approach would be explaining to him why you disagree, not calling him a hylic dog across multiple threads.

Do you think Buddhism would aprove this behaviour? Losing your temper that easily just shows how much you have left. Reflect about your actions and stop preaching things you dont fully understand.

 No.165051

>>165050
>You dont seem very enlightened yourself anon
Did I ever say that I am?

>The correct approach would be explaining to him why you disagree, not calling him a hylic dog across multiple threads.

Thanks for stalking me. And there is no point in explaining anything to someone who hasn't even made an argument.

>Do you think Buddhism would aprove this behaviour?

BAHAHAHAHA. You're a MORON!!

>Reflect about your actions and stop preaching things you dont fully understand.

BAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You're truly a moron, and it is YOU who does not understand.

Here's a hint for you, buddy. Buddhism is not about being le sober larpmonk that never gets angery or shows emotions.

 No.165052

File: 1582323868357.pdf (698.59 KB, Grof, Stanislav - The holo….pdf)

>>164379
Fasting regulates the brain. It must e practiced as often (as much as your recovery periods between one and another allow you to do them), it will gradually delete the warping substances that usually make the schzoid brain to be a useless pulp.
Completely leaving gluten also drives towards this objective and has shown even tougher results in brains with even higher warp levels; https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/9/6/824/5132957

First of all is deleting any porn, cancelling internet subscription if needed… also eating less (only when hungry, once or twice a day) removes part of the libido (like fasting does).

The last thing a schizo brain could use to improve whatever by itself, there'd be holotropic breathwork. The accurate knowledge to do it without paying the gangsters who handle this shock therapy is urgently needed for almost every chan user.

If you have money enough, you may pay those thieves, for some short sessions (3 hours each).

Beware of fantasies. Did I already say how much fasting can help?

 No.165053


 No.165058

just fast bro(™) 33rd strike ultra arcade edition remix

 No.165059

>>165058
Nice strawman. Fasting is a true and tried method since time immemorial. If you are too weak to do it, then just shut the fuck up. Nobody cares about you and the opinions of your weak willed mind. OP is here for advice and kind wizards take time to offer their words. If you aren't interested, go to /b/, where you belong, or crabs.co.

 No.165060

>>165059
It doesn't seem to be working very well if you're this agitated.

 No.165061

>>165051
My argument is that one of the most basic buddhist belief is that you can escape forever from samsara by reaching nirvana. While the eternal circle of rebirth makes sense to me, the claim that we could escape it seems like a completely religious, afterlife-like theory. Which contradicts entirely the teachings of buddha which were supposed to be empty of any dogmatism. Just proves this religion/ideology contradicts itself like most others and should not be adopted by a rational individual seeking for the Truth.

 No.165063

File: 1582334028257.jpg (1.28 MB, 2121x1414, 3:2, iStock-870206880.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>165061
You shouldn't be talking about the "teachings of Buddha" when you don't know what the teachings of Buddha were. The Buddha taught salvation/liberation from Samsara. Soteriology is central to Buddhist doctrine. If there is no liberation and only this world of becoming, then for what purpose did the Buddha teach and do what he did?

You clearly don't have even the basic knowledge of what the Buddha taught so I will deliver you a central point as briefly as possible. The Buddha taught that there are two selves: the Self and the self, that is, Being and becoming.

The Buddha taught that you reach nirvana by ceasing to be attached to the five skandhas (aggregates): rupa, vedana, sanna, sankara, vinyana. In summary, to abandon the ego, the persona non grata, the psychophysical, the not-self (anatman), and to instead realize the Self, the Atman, the Person.

Samsara is becoming, constant flux, impermanence. Ignorance of the true Self causes reincarnation. Escape is reached through wisdom, knowledge, gnosis. Noesis, not episteme.

Unfortunately English is not the ideal language to diffuse deep meaning (unlike ancient Greek, Pali, and Sanskrit), so I've had to resort to using various non-English words. Google them if you don't understand them.

>While the eternal circle of rebirth makes sense to me, the claim that we could escape it seems like a completely religious, afterlife-like theory

It's ridiculous that you accept rebirth but not release, and call release "religious", but not rebirth. You sound to me deeply confused, you don't have your beliefs in line, you don't seem to understand either samsara nor nirvana. Being and becoming are consubstantial. When there is this, there is that. You can't have samsara without nirvana. Becoming depends on Being.

 No.165065

>>165063
I accept "rebirth" or whatever you want to call it because I did not exist before being born, which means life can arise from void. Its a tangible, rational proof for me.

>Ignorance of the true Self causes reincarnation

However is a dogmatic, religious, spiritual belief and you might as well believe in jesus or allah or the flying spaghetti monster

On the contrary my beliefs are crystal clear and i produced them by myself through pure rational thinking while you decided to adhere to a dogma produced by someone else.

 No.165066

>>165065
>I accept "rebirth" or whatever you want to call it because I did not exist before being born, which means life can arise from void. Its a tangible, rational proof for me.
What is reborn? What arises from the void? Explain your rationality.

 No.165067

>>165066
After death we dont exist
Before birth we dont exist
Life arise from non-existence

As long as life exists in the universe, death does not

 No.165069

>>165067
That's not very rational of you. I thought you were rational, as you claimed yourself to be. Nothing can't come from nothing. Yet you claim that something comes from nothing, which is irrational. Fix your "crystal clear" beliefs that you produced by thinking yourself "through pure rational thinking".

 No.165070

>>165069
Why can't something come from nothing?

 No.165071

>>165070
Lol… are you trolling? No thing can come from nothing. Nothing can't generate no thing. Nothing is nothing.

Let me put it very simply for you: 0+0=0.

 No.165072

>>165071
Physics allows it as long as it sums back to zero, and mathematically it works too, look up the banach tarski paradox. So tell me why something can't come from nothing.

 No.165073

>>165072
What did this universe come out from?

 No.165078

>>165069
My own birth is enough of a proof. Life and consciousness (me) arose from non-existence because life (my parents) reproduced.

 No.165080

>>165072
If you think something can come out of nothing then you cannot call yourself rational because it violates every observed law of logic and physics.
Even in cases you may misunderstand in physics like virtual particles this requires preexisting space etc

 No.165082

File: 1582376274115.jpg (230.09 KB, 749x477, 749:477, platosneets.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>165052
Thanks Holowiz, i am starting IF and will do a 3 or 4 day WF next month

I am curious of some peoples opinion that WF does nothing and i should just move on to DF, but i'll see how it goes.

It's also interesting to me that you mention that i should fast as much as possible with recovery in between, that's a lot like flipping the whole idea of why we eat on it's head, like almost any food is a form of 'break fast'… i like that framework

My big worry is that i will start to get the symptoms of the Massachusetts Experiment, but if i really have no more will then it doesn't really matter about my fears.

I did breath-work for a couple days in a row, but then just got… not bored, but like i felt the benefits and then was like.. what now?
Back to wizchan..

So i guess it's a wider life problem i need to address in tandem with fasting and breathing.. a bigger life change to stimulate my inner drive and discipline.

Yes also the thing about the bread.. I need to re-read the book wheat belly, i just ate a triple stacked PBnJ with dollar-store 'bread'. Can already feel it working in my brain, i swear that sandwich was like 50% sugar.. There so much i need to change in my life.

>>165034
Yes, i suppose a teacher would make it easier, i'm not denying, i'm just emphasising how difficult it is to find someone who is reputable in this age of frauds and internet fame

There are a couple sages i follow online, then a couple PHD neuroscientists who seem to know what they are talking about, i've got their books, but again, it goes back to the drive thing..

Don't get me wrong i am taking real steps toward addressing this issue in my mind, even if i must put my live on the line for this, i can't sit in front of this screen for ten more years. I just refuse.

>>165039

It's not about becoming rich, more having self-respect and a basic understanding of how internal drive is created when separated from the 'herd' and external validation beyond basic needs.

 No.165083

If you dont have the stressful forced push of the need to make money, then just learn to enjoy being lazy, probably through meditation

 No.165084

>>165082
no,man. holotropic breathing cannot be compared to just breathing, is not meditation. you should really look for it at YT

If you feel too bad when doing water fasting, or you feel fainty, drink 2 or 3 spoons of honey with the water, they will soften the blood and help with the detox processes

 No.165288

>>164379
how to stop this cycle? plz help me!!

 No.165291

>lack of drive
>from being alone
such a thread created by and for failed normies

 No.165325

File: 1583183813179.png (1.15 MB, 1239x1758, 413:586, mathematics is not worthwh….png) ImgOps iqdb


 No.165326

File: 1583183850501.jpg (118.24 KB, 671x900, 671:900, ted mkultra.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>164535
Ted on MKULTRA

 No.165346

>>165326
>>165325
Nice, i expect there to be an archive.org compilation of all of his letters one day, one can hope

Separate from the main topic headline, it really does puzzle me how there is no good answer to the question of technological resource consumption, we are just going over the cliff with blank faces.

 No.165347

>>165346
Because it goes against the premise of productivity/economic progress to limit expansion. It's an entire implosion of the value system we have inculcated since the start of the industrial revolution where endless progress was inherently good. Our societies value people on how much money they can make and the only way to make money is to use up the world's resources. This wasn't readily apparent until the expansion of markets and people didn't want ot internalize that a culture based on how much you can possibly consume is a bad thing.

 No.165396

The issue is just being really depressed and not having any energy because of that. Have you ever been in a good mood and noticed everything is so much easier to do, like you can just do things without it being some giant thing you have to whip yourself repeatedly to get started? It has happened to me a handful of times. I think that is what normalfags are like all the time, because they are not depressed they are filled with energy.

This may be borderline taboo to admit here but I will admit that those periods of positive mood and energy came for me after positive social experiences. This is why they were so rare, as a hiki I don't get many of those. I think it's just some sort of instinct, you do certain things that give you pleasure because people evolved that way, and unfortunately for me one of those things is socialization. Not all socialization because some, or most rather, just fills me with anxiety and gives me nothing positive and drains me even more.

In my experience, external accountability does not help. That just puts more pressure on you, sometimes your anxiety is enough to spur you to action, but that is not really a great solution because it can also just overwhelm you and send you deeper into depression when you fail to meet your goals despite telling others about them. I think the only thing for it is unfortunately that which is taboo to discuss here, socialization with people you actually enjoy socializing with. I think this is what gives the normies all their energy. There are others who have plenty of energy without the need for socialization, true introverts, but these are rare. You are lucky if you happen to be one, true-born wizards imo, but some of us are not so lucky.

If you are cursed to need positive social interaction to get energy, your only option is to go and get some imo. Sadly, I do not see this being a viable option for me because of my neuroses and personality/interests which make most of the interactions I have with people negative rather than positive. There may be other alternatives for mental stimulation other than social interaction. I think that it must be something active rather than passive though, otherwise they would just tell people to go watch standup comedy when they got depressed and it would fix everything. This may be the trick that introverts have discovered, they generally apply themselves to mentally intensive hobbies that they enjoy doing. If your brain just sits there being unused I do not think it will give you energy. The question then becomes how do you get yourself to start these activities when you have no energy or drive and doing the things gives you no pleasure? As of yet I have no answer to that which is why I circle back to the need for positive social interaction, but in a depressed, long-isolated and lethargic state that is hard to come by even if you don't have anxiety getting in the way simply because your end of the interaction becomes harder to hold up in a way that will lead to the interaction being positive because you are so out of practice.

Call us failed normies if you like, it doesn't change the fact that we are victims of fate, cursed to suffer indefinitely.

 No.165397

>>165396
Yeah, but I haven't always been depressed. Some things are just way harder for me as an individual.

Agreed. I mean it can push you to exert yourself, but overexertion means you hit your limit and if it's not good enough, you're worse off.

Well it's proven that socialization has some benefits, but yeah it seems to be if you connect with other people. Getting bullied or harassed seems to internalize anxiety. I don't know if it energizes me but the times I've connected with people over common interests(very rare) have been better than otherwise. It breaks barriers down where you're not judged at a surface level.

I think it has to do more with positive affirmation rather than just socializing. At the end of the day you can't bond with people who share the same niche interests 24/7 and won't judge you on other things. At a certain point, even if it's intense for both of you, they won't want to prop you up. They have lives outside of their niche interests.

That's what I'd say is the difference between the negatively impacted introverts and normal people. Pure introverts are good at something and have enough proof of that where they don't need the socialization.

 No.165399

Another thing I realized over time is the reason I was obsessed with my non-attractive appearance was that people are nicer to better-looking people even if the better-looking people aren't nice themselves. I forgot who the artist was but she brought a homeless dude who was good looking on stage. Most homeless people aren't good looking and no one will help them. There was also a documentary where a tall blonde good looking guy was homeless and had schizophrenia but everyone went out of their way to help him and he really never appreciated it since he got it easily. There was also the guy who was in prison but got a modelling contract.

 No.165411

>>165399
The downside of being ugly is that both succubi and men will treat you bad and have a bias towards you just based on your ugly appearance and your demeanor in every social situation will be affected by it and get worse when you become conscious of it. Being ugly is a curse like being a leper back then.
Sometimes I find myself hating ugly people I see on the internet or outside for no reason but I know better and had corrected my behavior pattern.

 No.165416

>>165396
This is correct. However I'm not sure if it's because having a genuine human connection as a hiki is incredibly rare or because you are supposed to feel like that even if it happens all the time.

 No.165418

File: 1583508496090.jpg (108.81 KB, 1024x697, 1024:697, hermittower.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>165396
>failed normies

I don't know about this, but i can come back to that

What i am starting to realise is that i either do not want to get better, i am to lazy to improve, or the pain of changing my behaviour is greater than my will to change.

>being really depressed


Again, this is more 'after the fact', sort of like saying 'you are depressed because of how you are', yeah clearly it's self-evident, but neurotransmitters are down-regulated when one is isolated or deemed a failure by their herd, theres not much i can do about how my brain reacts to that, save disassociation and mental bypassing through use of meditation. I'm working on that, but it's a slow, cringe-inducing process.

>certain things that give you pleasure because people evolved that way


Yep, that's what i'm saying also, i just don't have interest in the motivation of others, such as breeding or social posturing. Again, they will say this is just sour grapes, but i do not in fact have an interest in these things.

 No.165796

>>164389
>What's needed is not to fight yourself, but to focus on changing that perception through an intuitive grasp of a different frame in which you will be compelled to read.

That's interesting.
Where can I read more about this?

 No.165800

File: 1584228621114.jpg (83.67 KB, 760x428, 190:107, duck-rabbit-illusion.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>165796
It's just something I found to be true through personal experience. Most places will tell you to just force yourself to do things, brute-force the problem through willpower because the activity is inherently terrible. And yet, many people can enjoy reading, exercising and other "uncomfortable" activities by virtue of some subjective factor, which I believe has to do with 'perception', some low-level foundation which compels certain thoughts, feelings and behavior (and creates friction for other), generating your experience.

In the case of procrastination, a person experiences aversion towards an activity despite the rational, conscious desire to engage and benefit from the activity. This is entirely possible due to a known distinction between two parts of the mind - system 1 and system 2. One is fast, automatic, unconscious and the other is slow, deliberate, conscious. These two systems can make conflicting judgments, creating friction in decision-making, requiring the person to either use willpower and mental energy to overcome system 1 or just give in. Rationally trying to convince yourself to do something is fundamentally ineffective because system 1 has little to do with the verbal, rational part of the mind. So, change has to happen using a different apparatus i.e. perception.

I'll try my best to describe the process. Firstly, you start by observing your thoughts and feelings, notice how they are compelled by how you perceive the activity. Rationally, you might think that it's beneficial, truly good for you, yet on an instinctual level, you do not perceive any potential in it, the road looks full of drudgery, difficulty, pain, tedium and so on, and this makes the aversion itself very compelling (nonetheless, you still have the choice to go against it through brute-force).

Changing the perception is an intuitive process, interacting with the perceptual apparatus to discern what is not currently being perceived. Usually, what makes an activity compelling is the potential you see in it, as well as how you will feel while doing it. You do not try to convince yourself rationally of the benefits, you have to "see" the activity differently. Best way I can describe it is like the illusion in the pic, sometimes you see the rabbit, sometimes you see the duck. The process of changing the perception is done through perceiving itself, discerning the image, rather than convincing yourself through a rational argument.

Once you change the perception, it will automatically trickle down to your thoughts, feelings and behavior. The activity should feel effortless and even enjoyable, you will feel no need to fight yourself because both system 1 and 2 will be aligned. Positive thoughts will come on their own, an anticipation of something great, a sense of satisfaction after the fact, positive predictions about the future and so on.

 No.165801

>>165800
Sounds like a way to gain an amount of happiness without having to lie to yourself.

 No.165885

>>165416
>because having a genuine human connection as a hiki is incredibly rare
No in general, as hikki or not.
Such stuff is pretty rare.

 No.165922

>>165800
People perceive those things differently because they physically don't experience them as unpleasant. People enjoy exercise because their bodies are strong and moving around feels natural, not because they have a weak body and delude themselves somehow into thinking that they enjoy the struggle. They enjoy reading because they are clearheaded and their minds are fresh and nimble, not because of some mental trick that they invented to block out how awful it is. Your mental state doesn't change how things actually are.

 No.165924

>>165922
Yeah, I mean, just visualizing yourself doing better at something doesn't make you better. I feel like there's a lot of magical thinking involved in the type of analysis you replied to, where just "perception" can alter your abilities/skill-level.

 No.165927

>>165922
There's nothing inherent in these activities that makes them enjoyable. Many things you experience are the result of a myriad of personal factors that aren't related to biology but high-level mental factors. Despite exercise being painful for everyone, people can still end up enjoying it whether they have a "good" or "bad" body. This has more to do with how a person perceives the activity which lays the foundation for expectations, meaning-making and friction. It goes without saying that wizards have an aversion towards an activity that many consider intrinsically enjoyable no matter what and this doesn't have anything to do with us not having functional penises - it's all about how we perceive sex, intimacy and other people.

What makes reading and exercise enjoyable has less to do with the activity and more to do with how a person constructs the activity in their mind. A person might have had a supporting parent that encouraged them in this activities early on, helped them learn to perceive them in such a way that makes them compelling. A person who likes reading doesn't have to think about the benefits of reading, these thoughts and expectations come automatically due to a learned habitual perception. Nonetheless, they can still end up giving up the activity one day if they implicitly or in a self-aware manner change the way they perceive the activity.

Of course, perception is governed mostly by unconscious, automatic processes but gaining awareness over these processes allows you to influence them in ways your rational mind might see fitting.

Also, another thing I want to make clear is that perception isn't simply what you think about something. Rather, perception lays the foundation for your thoughts. It's on a lower-level, how you experience the world before you have a single conscious thought. For instance, when you are sad, your first perceive the world as sad and then you might have a sad thought or behave in a sad manner.

>>165924
It's not really about visualization, it's more about "seeing" the world differently. If an activity is perceived as unpleasant, all you can see is how unpleasant it really is and even your rational judgement will be biased somewhat. Even imagining doing well in an activity will seem self-deceptive and wrong if your perception is organized to see it that way. This has to do with how perception has evolved to be selective, only take in what is salient and deemed important for survival. The organisms that survive the most are not the ones that experience the world in a "true" way. Gazelle's don't wait to verify that there is a lion behind that bush, they experience the bush exactly like a lion and this usually leads to survival.

In the case of something like reading, it's not really about your true ability or skill, but rather how your perception is organized to make the activity itself compelling. If you perceive an activity in the right way, even minimal progress will seem amazing and your future outlook will be positive. Even if you're confronted with evidence of your poor ability, with the right perception, you'll find it easy to dismiss it and carry on. The same is also true for the opposite, as there are people that are confronted with endless evidence of their achievement and yet easily dismiss that achievement and feel like a fraud. It's pretty clear that there is a certain automatic, unconscious foundation that makes behavior (un)compelling.

 No.165933

>>165927
>Despite exercise being painful for everyone, people can still end up enjoying it whether they have a "good" or "bad" body
No that's not true, people with good bodies don't feel pain when they do it, they just do it naturally and are drawn to physical action. It probably doesn't even occur to them that some people have difficulty doing it or feel bad when they do it.
Anyway this whole thing is really a bunch of absurd mumbojumbo that boils down to trying to deceive your own mind in order to force yourself into performing an activity.
>For instance, when you are sad, your first perceive the world as sad and then you might have a sad thought or behave in a sad manner.
Where did the perception of it as sad come from? Of course, it came from living in the world and learning about how it really is for you. When you talk about "right" and "wrong" perceptions, you're really talking about "incorrect" and "correct" perceptions, and pulling the wool over your own eyes to delude yourself that things are just great when they really aren't. The obvious effect of this when you're an unable person is that the dissonance caused by the mismatch between your delusional, incorrect perception ("exercise is GREAT!") and reality (progressive physical destruction of your bodily tissues caused by your clumsy movements) will get greater and greater until you realize what you're doing or the damage forces you to stop.

 No.165934

>Has anyone successfully broken this cycle?
here

turn your computer off and pull the plug

 No.165936

>>165933
>they just do it naturally and are drawn to physical action.

The same way you're drawn to the PC? You're ignoring a whole lot of complexity related to learning. Certain genetic and environmental factors lead you to a certain learning path, but they are not in themselves responsible for what you find compelling in each moment. People obviously do feel pain during exercise, but due to how they perceive the activity, they are willing to push through it based on the payoff. I'm not saying that some people don't experience more or less pain during activity, but I'm saying that there's a certain subjective factor that influences how you experience the activity based on your previous learning. Your grandma for instance perceives your computer as a dead machine with no potential, making it un-compelling to use or think about, but your perception has developed in such a way as to see and expect a payoff from something like scrolling endlessly through imageboards. Is reading text on a screen inherently enjoyable? Or is the way you perceive the activity influencing how you experience it based on your expectations? Rational judgement doesn't even come into the equation, you know on an instinctual level that the activity will payoff in some manner before you can even describe it.

>trying to deceive your own mind in order to force yourself into performing an activity.


If you're forcing yourself, you're doing it wrong. The whole point is to be able to consciously control the factors that will make doing an activity more compelling. Whether spending time reading is a good choice of your time is entirely up to you, but if you do think it is then reducing the friction and mental energy required to do the activity is a good thing.

>Where did the perception of it as sad come from?


It came from learning. There are no "correct" or "incorrect" perceptions, they can only be judged by your goals and desired state. If you desire to read more then a perception of the activity that compels you to do it is a favorable one. As a biological organism, you're limited to a certain point in space-time, a certain biological, cognitive frame and you can only experience reality in so far as it can help you survive and reproduce. Capital-T Truth is unreachable and everything you experience is in a sense deluded and biased - but it helps you navigate the world in a "good enough" manner.

You can checkout "Case Against Reality" by Donald Hoffman on how and why perception evolved.

 No.165942

>>165936
Good body -> moving feels good -> exercise is enjoyable
Bad body -> moving feels bad -> exercise sucks
You're saying to just skip to the end and arbitrarily force some alternate viewpoint that isn't supported by your own experiences, and indeed won't be supported by any experiences you ever have in the future unless you're actually good at whatever it is (in which case you would already know about it).

 No.165944

>>165942
But why does something feel good, tho? You aren't making a distinction between sensual pleasure that's inherent in an activity and other forms of enjoyment/motivation.

There are things that are inherent in the activity that are pleasurable on a biological level no matter your state of mind, but I'm talking about subjective factors that influence your motivation and how you experience an activity. Paradoxically, people can experience pain and yet still find an activity enjoyable. Perhaps you've played a game for several hours and your body aches from sitting but you still find it compelling and enjoyable to keep playing. In the same way, an athlete's whole body aches at the end of the match but he is still able to focus and continue the game due to factors that are mental.

Why do some people enjoy reading? Again, looking at text is not inherently enjoyable on a sensual level, there are no endorphins running through your body.
Perhaps moving your eyes back and forth is an inherently enjoyable movement? Good readers have good eyes and therefore find it pleasurable to move them across the page.
Clearly there are more factors to enjoyment/aversion than just the inherent sensual experience of an activity. Sometimes people are even compelled to do things they're obviously not enjoying.

The kind of change in perception I'm talking about actually happens fairly regularly but it's out of awareness. You might talk to a person and end up seeing things differently for a moment, causing a change in motivation, thoughts, feelings etc. but mostly you just perceive things habitually, based on your arbitrary learning so far. Perhaps that learning makes your goals compelling to work towards or you might face friction at every step, believing you are simply lazy and lack willpower. The way perception works is that it seeks out certain cues, creating a biased experience. If your perception is organized around not being good at something, you will find endless evidence for it, it will just keep showing up on its own and you will continually pattern match it. The opposite is also true, as you'll find endless evidence that you really are improving or better than other people and so on. This is an automatic, unconscious process and influences your behavior more than you understand.

 No.165951


 No.165974

>>165800
Man.
Wow. Just wow.
I can't even guess what are you doing on a board like this?

 No.165975

>>165800
I'm reading your posts and I'm in awe of how precisely you describe my feelings.

I'm 33 and I'm in a fine arts college (yeah-yeah, 33 and in a college).
It took me 2 years to prepare, pass the exams and get there. Also I have been working for 12 years to save up money. Nowadays I live ob savings.

Generally I love to paint and I want to become better but at every given moment I find some more preferable activity to do. Like scrolling boards, watching youtube or playing games. Simultaneously I hate this shit and I hate myself wasting precious time on this shit.

And now take a look on me. I sit at my flat FOR A MONTH already missing college. I go to bed at 4-6 a.m. and wake up at 3-4 p.m. My phone is off and I'm afraid to use social networks because I have no explanation to tell to classmates or teachers.
Two more months and semester is over. I'm in so deep shit.

Apparently I'm expelled now. I don't know for sure. This is hell.

 No.165992

>>165927
I still don't understand how to change my perception

 No.165993

>>165975
Have read Van Gogh letters? In many of them he talks about this intense drive that keeps pushing him to paint day after day, like a compulsion he can't control. It's pretty amazing to read about it. Most people don't have that drive at all, they're just floating around. They have goals and desires but no driving force to achieve anything.

 No.165995

>>165993
I haven't but now I will for sure.
Thanks.

 No.165997

File: 1584466539032.jpg (55.16 KB, 640x272, 40:17, 1583683276961.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>165992
I haven't found a definitive set of steps or anything, but since perception is governed by automatic, unconscious processes the best strategy is building awareness through self-observation. My posts fail to transfer the kind of knowledge that can only be gained by actually bumping into these implicit mechanisms on your own. It's like riding a bike, you learn by doing and practicing.

Firstly, you need to understand how perception underlies all your behavior by making it compelling. You ultimately have a choice but most people go through the path of least resistance, both externally and internally. Perception is a process that builds your present experience through some selection mechanism that's based on previous learning. Your mind can't handle the entirety of reality and in order to survive it doesn't need to. Some of your perception is controlled by what you might call "attention" which is like a spotlight that follows your eyes most of the time. You've probably already learned that you can shift this attention and make certain elements of the environment more salient than others. The perceptual change I'm talking about is on a level above that, think of it like layers of filters that condense reality into something you can handle and process. Changing that filter has the potential to result in transformational change, the kind that therapy promises but often fails to deliver.

Change on that level is the change at the level of actual experience, the world seemingly changes rather than you. If you have social anxiety and people have previously appeared dangerous, untrustworthy, conniving, full of ridicule and so on, that appearance changes, making your anxiety no longer necessary. Did the world actually change? No, your perception no longer picks up on the same cues as before, it selects quite literally a different part of reality, changing what you actually experience. It's important to understand that this is a change below the level of regular behavior like thoughts, feelings and actions which are the result of reacting to experience - something which is controlled by salience and valence (and perhaps other components as well).

What is salience? It's essentially what sticks out to you in the world, what features you are able to discern and experience. This is not merely on the level of vision, but all senses. For instance, someone that drinks a lot of wine has a different salience landscape than someone that doesn't. When they're teaching you to wine taste, you're learning to notice and become aware of all the textures in the wine. All learning is essentially perceptual learning, gaining access to a particular perceptual frame which organizes experiences and makes it manageable for various purposes.

What is valence? This is what creates quality in the world, whether things are "good" or "bad" or "neutral". Again, this is on a lower level than regular cognition, so you first have to experience something as "bad" in terms of valence and then you might feel compelled to have a thought that it is bad or have a negative emotion about it. Psychological pain is essentially negative valence in various forms. Your valence landscape controls what you find enjoyable, compelling and what you find aversive, punishing.

So, put those two together: a salience landscape + a valence landscape, and you can get a pretty good idea how perception carves out a path in the world out for you in terms of behavior.

>but how do I change my perception???


Well, you can temporarily change your perception through intuition with a little focus. I don't have the words to describe it, but it's essentially like discerning an ambiguous image like that rabbit duck illusion. Based on whether your salience landscape includes the rabbit features or not, you'll end up experiencing two different animals. The world is exactly like that illusion, just infinitely discernible, each interpretation as valid as any other.

Permanent change in perception is the result of learning to access various perceptual frames until they become habitual. For instance, learning French is essentially learning to access the perceptual frame in which French words appear meaningful, whether visually or audibly. People do that by memorizing words until they reach a point where they experience a shift in perception and they experience the language no longer as an English speaker but as they would a native language. I believe standard ways of learning (anything) are inefficient because they only work through a secondary process of perceptual learning. What that process is, I currently cannot say.

Best I can say is to practice "seeing"/"experiencing"/"perceiving" things differently by manipulating salience and valence through intuition.

>>165974
I'm just another wizzie wiz like you.

>>165975
I'm sorry about that, man. It sucks how understudied all of this shit is. We're governed by automatic, unconscious processes and most of us can't help it. There are even trained clinical psychologists that will roll their eyes at you when you say that there is a part of you that you can't even verbalize blocking you from functioning. All I can say is changing what you experience is possible, whatever it is that's making you stay inside instead of working towards your dreams.

 No.166005

>>165997
I've been going in and out of a lot of perceptions lately myself. I found what results in the most disaster for me is over clutter and trying to force things resulting in grinding depression and an otherwise constantly irritated state of mind. What's the hardest is when when you try to change your perception but you just don't have those windows yet because of one factor or another. I like you find it absurdly difficult to explain because these different perceptions you can access are different worlds and they're chained to so many things in the bubble of your life that it would blow your mind to know just what may be holding you back here or there from something else. I've played a lot of games with myself over the years and only now am I somewhat starting to be more free. Sometimes I fall into old pits of despair again by accident in trying something new with myself but get up again faster now. Sometimes other unexpected bumps in the road occur that make things rougher.

What has otherwise made things better was acceptance of what I can't immediately change and doing what I need to for myself regardless of how I feel at the time. Stop grinding and start flowing. But now I have no big dreams, I have some foundation of identity and things I enjoy but that's all. Maybe I do but the dream is dead from factors outside of my control that have been since birth that I sometimes caught a glimpse of over the course of my life. The constant pull of environment, my biology, and will is what makes me so fractured I find.

 No.166007

>>165997
Could you explain with an example?
How could someone change perception about succubi when they can't stop thinking about them?
Many have tried to think of them as just sacks of meat, blood and shit but it doesn't work past the biological impulses.

>inb4 wizchan 2020

 No.166008

>>166007
Wizchan 2020

 No.166010

Set your daily plan, then get ready for the day. Dress up like you were going to an interview or something and tkae a shower and leave the house. go around the block and come back home and trick yourself that you are at work to do the thing you wanted. You can use a different entrance if you can.

The fresh air really helps

good luck

dont kill yourself

 No.166014

That's triggering for all my failed interviews where it became clear that the people just didn't like me.

 No.166023

>>166007
Well, like I said, first realize how being unable to stop thinking about them is the result of your perception making it compelling. Below a rational level, you perceive succubi as a solution to a great problem, a path towards something good, familiar, safe and so on. That's positive valence, as well as the negative valence towards whatever you're escaping from with those thoughts. The difference in valence between these two perceptions is what creates that compulsion. It's entirely natural to want to go from something bad towards something good. Changing how these things appear to you, how you experience them on a fundamental level, is the only way to dissolve that compulsion.

Yes, many have tried to "think" of them differently, but as I explained, this is not a change on the level of thoughts. Trying to think differently from how the world really appears to you is ultimately self-deceptive, those thoughts simply aren't compelling and will cause friction and cognitive dissonance. Ironically, perhaps the easiest way to change your perception of succubi is to actually spend time with them while being mindful of how you perceive them. The goal is to dissolve that magical, rainbow, sunshine positive valence.

The other side of this is the bad stuff you're trying to escape from. That could be loneliness, isolation, rejection, alienation, being different and so on, things that have a negative valence. It could also be much more abstract, something you're not even aware of because of how effective shifting your thoughts to succubi and sex really is. At some point, you get that bad feeling and you might shift your attention to something else or you might actually stay there, using the perceptual apparatus to discern and confirm that negative valence, find all the evidence for it. You're stuck in a certain frame and all your behavior inside the frame cannot transcend it. Realize that what you consider as "evidence" is really a post hoc rationalization, a confirmation of the valence rather than the actual source of it.

So, a possible practical strategy is to practice experiencing both these things differently, not through your thoughts but through a much lower sense of what is "good" and "bad". When you change that sense, you'll also change what information your perception seeks out. With enough focus, you'll manage to temporarily feel different about these things but habitual perception will return. The goal is to learn to access those frames reliably until they become habitual and automatic.

 No.166028

>>166023
Nicely written. This and the rest of your posts are going to take some time for me to fully comprehend because there's so much to think about.
>change your perception of succubi is to actually spend time with them.
This is going to be impossible for me.

 No.166030

>>166028
I meant that it would be the easiest way since it requires the least amount of self-understanding, just letting experiences shape your perceptions but it can also be quite unreliable and time consuming since you're essentially waiting for a "corrective" experience that might never come.

The whole point of my approach is to take active control/influence over perception instead of being at the mercy of your environment and previous learning. A lot of things have to line up for you to receive the kind of experiential learning that would naturally result in a change of perception in a preferable direction. Maybe one day all of this will be trivial to talk about and teach, but at this point there's no alternative to gaining knowledge through self-observation. My posts might point you in the right direction, but it's up to you to notice and become aware of these mechanisms. Currently they're just a bunch of abstractions because they're not tied to real internal experiences.

 No.166196

great thread bros

 No.166197

>>166196
I can never tell if someone is using bro sarcastically on this site or not.

 No.166224

>>166197
And that is conclusive proof of the decay of this site's discourse

 No.166227

File: 1585079854777.gif (693.21 KB, 300x214, 150:107, wwwwe.gif) ImgOps iqdb

>lack of drive from being alone

 No.166232

>>166227
Nah, it's legit. Having no pressure means many of us don't actually get anything done. At the same time, most of us want to shelter ourselves from any sort of pressure.

 No.166233

>>166232
But that’s not from being alone it’s from having nothing to do.

 No.166235

>>166233
The more people you have in your life, the more pressure you have to change, both external and internal. Most of the drive to change and accomplish things comes from the desire to compete and ultimately breed. If you don’t have anyone forcing you to do things, or any competition or any desire to breed, you don’t really have much of a reason to do anything. So yeah, there is nothing to do. I’m not saying being active part of society is any better, because people only bring more trouble and suffering, and competing as well as breeding are ultimately pointless. Some people here seem to push this idea that wizard homely life is potentially some sort of high culture thing full of diversified activities, but truth is most of us can barely derive pleasure from anything outside of internet and video games. Some are at least obsessed about a specific subject that they can get some pleasure from it, but I doubt many have a huge variety of hobbies here. There really isn't anything wrong with that.

 No.166237

>>166232
>>166235
So what you're saying is that you are a social normieshit. Only social normieshits feel socially "pressured" by their peers because they care about what others think. Only social normieshits are motivated to do things so that they can show off to their normieshit peers how awesome and cool they are.

I, as a NEET, do not feel the slightest pressure, since I am not a social normieshit like you. If I accomplish anything like learning something new I do it for myself because I enjoy it, not to impress other social normieshits like you who has no motivation because he has no social normieshits to brag to.

 No.166239

>>166237
>If I accomplish anything like learning something new I do it for myself because I enjoy it
Do you often?

 No.166240

>>166239
It's funny how he calls the others normshits when he himself is a normshit capable of doing things and enjoying things solely for "himself". He's literally bragging of what he can do.
The irony…
Some people here should just die.

 No.166241

>>166240
Anyone should think twice before denying our social impulses on an image board for others to see.

 No.166242

>>166239
Yes.

>>166240
There is no irony you retard. I'm not bragging I'm merely stating fact, that non-normieshits are NOT like you normieshit cringe wiz LARPers. It's the same as saying "1+1=2", MORON. And it is YOU that should die, you pathetic crab fucker that can't even do shit without social validation.

>>166241
An anonymous board is not social.

 No.166243

>>166242
here's some wizvalidation that you crave.

 No.166257

File: 1585123966626.jpg (29.01 KB, 640x606, 320:303, catfrog.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>166242
>>166227
>>166237
Pic related to you.

Can you stop shitting up my my thread with your inane projection bullshit?

I realise 'normieshit' is the newest lingo for you and you want to parade around how superior you are, but literally noone gives a shit around here.

 No.166266

>>166242
>An anonymous board is not social.
You should go post your nonsense in a .txt file instead of here if you really believe that.

 No.166270

>>166243
Thank you wizzie.

>>166257
Cute frog and cat. I'm not projecting, you're projecting. I'm right, you're wrong. If your motivation is founded on others then you're a pathetic crab.

>>166266
I do write my "nonsense" in word documents and in physical paper too. Anonymous boards are not social because you can't be social without identity. As far as we know you could be me, I could be you, or I could be everyone in this thread, or everyone on this website. Maybe I'm not the guy you're replying to, maybe I am.

 No.166271

>>166270
>As far as we know you could be me

no he can't be you because he is not a retard faggot.

 No.166272

>>166270
That's insane, we are here exclusively to interact with others, individuals or different people sharing the same position makes no difference. Identity here is restricted to ideas and wording instead of names and faces, but it's still there.
Anyway, the "founding your motivation on others" thing is just a recognition of what we are. Every time your eyes lock on to a face or a new post like this one, or you feel any positive reinforcement from a videogame, or you get any interest in a story, it betrays you as a social creature. You are getting your motivation from others, whether you realize it or not.

 No.166273

>>166237
I am >>166235, and this is my only post in this thread since. Please stop being abrasive and accusing others here, as they are not me.

Either way, thank you for reminding me why I stopped visiting this website in the first place, I guess the reason escaped me for a day. I just can't be bothered.

 No.166300

>>166232
Pressure just makes you feel more vigilant temporarily. Your performance doesn't necessarily increase. If you are good at something, it might, but often times, you will crash hard under pressure because you can't raise your ability to the level demanded. There are plenty of situations where people are under pressure and they don't make the cut.

 No.166302

>>166300
Most advances in human intellectual history weren't the product of pressure, but someone liking what they were doing and having it flow. Wozniak was a hobbyist and didn't really care about making a big business, for instance. The Van Gogh example someone else cited is poignant too. The idea that you have to be under external pressure is just you being conditioned to the school bell mentality and the school bell mentality is one that kills ingenuity.

 No.166303

>>166302
Thanks for BTFOing all of the LARPer crabs in this chat.


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