we are all a slave to dopamine, if you have anhedonia you are basically screwed
Funny, the only non-chemical motivation i seem to have is the desire to rope myself. But maybe they just have discovered that chemical yet.
Horseshit is in fact the architect of your demiurge.
Don't feel bad about all the big words here, i blame the subpar education system
What is the point of this philosophical meandering? Nothing that you think of, no change of view, will affect the fact that you are a meat bag run by your meaty machinery.> What the hell? I didn't ask for any
You didn’t need to be asked. Why do you think your permission is required?
The point, my good fellow, is to stop me from going insane and weeping at the sight of a flogged horse.
You may be able to accept your condition, by i cannot. It is not meandering, it is the uncanney valley of a pseudo-reality where i can see my thoughts as a foreign entity, arising out of an illusory self.
My fate was to question my fate?
The topic is on neurochemicals and if they are under my control or not.
>Can i think my way into high-dopamine states?>Can i control the flow of oxytocin?>Is wireheading the end result of our collective human endeavour?
>>167236> it is the uncanney valley of a pseudo-reality where i can see my thoughts as a foreign entity, arising out of an illusory self
But they aren't. All thoughts you have are by definition yours. You are shunting your own thoughts and urges and creating a fake view where you are somehow not you.
If you're seeking a constant high and euphoria, I would suggest trepanning.
You basically bore a hole into your skull and then live the rest of your life with a high euphoria similar to heroin. I finally had the gull to do it about 6 months ago and my life has been immeasurably more enjoyable and pleasurable, as your new state of being is continual euphoria.
If you have the means to do it, I would highly recommend it. The experience and pleasure you get from this simple modification is unparalleled.
Great article on trepanning: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/exq9yk/meet-the-man-who-drilled-a-hole-in-his-own-skull-to-stay-high-forever
Not sure if this is a bait or will be a long-winded debate that does not go anywhere.
You have a rock, are you the rock?
You have a thought, are the thought?
Thought is a chemical and phenomenological spook of the mind that often promotes trickery and chicanery of the highest-order that makes you identify yourself with it. Tautological arguments have no place here.
How can a fake view occur under your own premises?
I ask these questions in earnest
Your post indicates you have already made up your mind about this and don't want to have a conversation in earnest.
Is this an organised effort to dumb down these threads?
I am willing to hear your point of view if you have one.
I realise you only wrote one line, so if you didn't want to back up the point, that is fine also.
Nowadays i am delighted when there is a fellow anon i can have a halfway decent conversation with.
No, read Plato. If you want only good feefees then do what >>167241
said or get hooked to a morphine drip, become an alcoholic or drug addict or whatever you gotta do to get your supply of DOPAMINE bro!
What does Plato have to do with this?
I'm not boring a hole in my skull because of an anonymous post on an imageboard
Brain chemicals is "all there is" for midwit materialist mental midget moronic normalcattle. They only react to the various chemicals, they are wholly irrational. There's no "Demiurge" either, that is just some lore made up by gnostics who were for the most part morons that watered down and bastardized other schools of metaphysics such as the Egyptian, Chaldean, Orphic, Pythagorean, and Platonic schools.
If you want to be happy all the days of your pitiful mortal existence then lobotomize yourself, turn on the idiot box, and sit in front of it until you die.
Watch out, we got a metaphysical spiritually enlightened god amongst us.
You have a soul, you are experiencing everything. But you, your name and such is an illusion.
We are already here.
The difference is, it's not free yet.
it doesnt matter how smart you are, you still dont have sense.
That, and drugs like heroin have negative long term consequences. I would do heroin everyday if there were absolutely no negative side effects.
You could just buy a bunch and overdose. It's the same result, you get a bunch of pleasure then die.
Have you tried ego-death meditation? Lucid dreaming? Astral projection? It may change your mind.
Ah, our lord and savoiur, the midwitanon, has graced us with his presense.
Pray tell>If you want to be happy all the days of your pitiful mortal existence
Project much? What would you suggest as an alternative to help us reach your lofty heights?
Fuck you normalshit, don't mock me. May your head fall off.
Do you have first hand experience, or just stuff you have read?>>167440
Yes, this is exactly what i am talking about.
Who among you would not take the option, and why not?
How is suffering without cause noble at all?
your consciousness is an emergent property of many lower level chemical reactions. That's just how it is, doesn't mean shit or change shit, just how it is.
Yes, I have peered between the poles into the ineffable noumenon of existence. The World is like skin on top of an apple, and the flesh is timeless and spaceless, like the distance between stars. Every thing is infinite in smallness and infinite in largeness, the opposites meet and create a circle which is 0 which is the 1.
That article is entirely about the semantics of the word emergent.
Kind of unavoidable when labeling consciousness as "emergent" and pretending that that's a meaningful explanation is a unilateral reliance on semantic connotation.
Saying something is emergent is a declaration of source and nothing more, because I don’t think anyone is so bold as to claim they know how consciousness truly forms from its components. It’s the same thing when people get uppity about words like law or theory.
Screw you mods
This was my thread about brain chemicals.
Given that all normie behaviour is run off chemicals, from socialising, to bullying people below them, it is very relevant
commenting on the pic, this is what I feel how neurology, psychology, and philosophy view the human mind. They keep talking about how much there is to know and learn about the human mind, but keep ascribing overly complicated mechanisms to it and that fundamentally we can never replicate the human soul, even though animals for millions of years have evolved to do the same shit with amino acids. Just ascribing it to being nonlinear I would be okay with, but these fields seem to be overly complicated whenever I try to read a wikipedia article on consciousnesses, and it really seems like they are just tossing the Magic Dust to make it seem how deep and productive their field is despite man being incapable of developing artificial consciousness.
There's an incredible amount of money in this, what would you expect the academics to do? Be honest? They'll at most discover a sub-sub-sub-neural network and make it out to be the most important part of the brain.
Then, when neuroscience and cognitive science textbooks need to be written multiply this by 500 and you got the absolute confused mess that is the domain now.
Its brutal. How do things like pride fit into fate? Ive never been very confident and often had to mimic things like pride to fit in. If that was fate, does it just mean im weak? Because id like to think im not. But my complete inability to fit in and coherently express myself just tells me im a shitty sperm.
If it all is just fate, and I believe it is, whats the deal with ego? Why do we have to convince ourselves of bullshit? Is it just fear? You have to tell yourself that youre not a worthless pile of shit, otherwise other people will pick up on it, which puts you in a bad spot. How are supposed to separate yourself from the ego if everything is just fate? So something scares you, you do all you can to avoid it but eventually you realize that its out of your control and cant be helped.
Is that how we better ourselves? Accepting fate, maybe im just a complete idiot but if nothing is our fault and fate is real then everything is bullshit. We can give things meaning but thats about it. Was I just destined to look an ass then? Seems really shitty to think this was all destined. Certainly not a fate I wouldve chosen.
>>167506> unironically linking to lesswrong
So, how's that bazilisk?
I don't think you quite understand his point. You seem to be talking about fate, and then some meta level awareness that is above it that you're using to analyze your life, but that is fate as well. And by fate, I just mean matter interacting with matter in a deterministic way. That is literally all everything is. If the exact same conditions exist in every single way, the big bang would produce this exact same universe, including you and all your thoughts, and there's no reason to think otherwise. If you execute the exact same code on a computer (with perfect unfailing hardware) it would produce the same result every time.
How do you know it is “non-physical” action? The mind is the seat of consciousness and it is physical. So it’s a physical phenomenon inducing other physical phenomenon. Assuming your papers are all correct, this would only show that consciousness or the mind is able to influence some as of yet undiscovered field or force.
Let's try and imagine that. You have consciousness, which materialists say is just billiard ball atoms bumping into each other and through random chance that makes a consciousness pattern. Okay, so in these studies the consciousness pattern of the billiard ball atoms are simple being altered a bit. And that seems to influence the behavior of other groups of atoms, even though these two distinct groups never touch each other
. In order for the materialist framework to hold water, you'd have to argue that the set of atoms that is the brain is somehow shooting out tiny immeasurable subatomic particles that bump into the system that is being remotely influenced. Okay, that seems like it could be possible at least. But then we need to add intent into it, and that messes everything up. If psychic phenomena really was caused by tiny bits of matter getting launched out by the brain, I can see no possible way how this influence could in any meaningful way be harnessed by the psychic's mind to cause change according to his intent.
It seems like there is a part of reality that is not just matter blindly bumping into each other.
Magnetic forces, electrical forces, and gravitational “forces” are all contactless influences. If consciousness is the result of thousands of electrical impulses then why couldn’t it generate and manipulate the electrical field? Hell, we can already manipulate the way people think with magnetic fields.
Well consciousness has been proven to be able to affect probability as well as other peoples' minds. So I doubt it's just electric and magnetic fields. As far as I know those have not been shown to influence probability. I'm not sure if anyone has even studied this or tried to make a purely mechanical version of something like a radionics machine though, so I could be wrong.
Aside from that, do you have any articles about how materialist philosophers reconcile meta-physical fields like magnets with their worldview? I haven't really thought about it before in this context but it seems to raise some questions about the nature of matter itself. Is it just, this is how these particles work and that's that?
I think you need to read more into physics and what materialism really means. You seem to have a very classical mindset, but quantum physics is completely different, and as of current we still can’t actually reconcile quantum physics with our macro scale understanding of the universe and space-time. To further expound on this, I see many people here talk about determinism, but the way I see it is this universe is not deterministic but probabilistic.
I am addressing the very common belief that is being espoused in the OP, that the mind is nothing more than chemicals and pieces of matter interacting in interesting ways.
No I mean the way you talk about physics, and if materialist philosophers factor in force fields make it seem like you yourself did not know how they interact. I’m not trying to call you ignorant.
I know how they interact, I was just curious how these people rationalize their existence with their worldview. I was asking a question. Yes I should probably read about their viewpoints, which is why I was asking for reading recommendations.
I don’t really follow materialist philosophers, but these non contact forces are viewed as physical so I don’t think they are seen as clashing.
How can a force that is not made of matter be viewed as physical?
Because there is more to physical reality than just matter?
quit with the reddit speak, please
I have seen reddit speak seeping into all areas of the internet, particularly 'upvote-able' one-liner 'witty' replies
Reddit doesn’t have a monopoly on ending phrases with a question mark.
I feels like there are ghosts in my brain, who all want different things. One wants to conquer and rule, one wants to be a recluse, one wants to get meat and gorge, one wants to care for animals and be vegan.
What the hell am i?? Just a collection of brain bullshit?
It's more likely than you think.
>>167228>Is that all i am doing anything for?
The brain is only a tool for survival. The brain chemicals are the trial and error system who should guarantee your survival. When ever you do something right you will be rewarded by your brain. When ever you make an error you will punished by your brain. That is all there is to it.
Why do you refer to the brain as if it’s an entity that is removed from yourself?
Then how come i can suffer when other people would receive pleasure brain chemicals, i receive punish brain chemicals?
Because you're not the entirety of your brain. You're not its mass, you're not its unconscious processes. It'd be the same as claiming you are your feet just because you can feel an illusion of their presence.
So what am i then, exactly?
Good analogy. The ignorant man exits his house, looks in the window, sees that it is empty and declares "no one lives here".
The key flaw in your analogy is "exits his house"
Nice try redditor, what do you think?
You failed to EXPOUND on why you think my analogy is flawed therefore I can't comment on that but regardless I will let you know that there is such a thing as taking analogies too far and I suspect you might probably be doing that.
Because in your analogy one is able to view themselves as if without a consciousness. But the only way to see yourself without a consciousness is to be dead and therefore unable to observe yourself. When someone reflects on what they are, the self must always be present.
You didn't get the analogy at all. The house is analogous to the body, while the body (of the person living inside the house) is analogous to the soul or consciousness.
Yes, and unless you know how to astrally project, I don't see how you can take your consciousness out of your body,
Consciousness doesn't exist within the body
I take the easy way out I will admit, I would simply rather kill myself than admit my free will doesn't exist on some level. No choice in anything, just chemicals… without free will there cannot even be pretend or nihilistic meaning. Yea I'm not strong enough to accept such a proposition without pulling the trigger, not that I would have a choice to or not kek.
The lack of free will is not a bad thing. It absolves you from responsibility; you need feel no pressure about doing the right thing or achieving anything. I feel completely confident that the concept of free will is absurd, but I am not depressed, I feel like it is freeing.
In order to believe in free will you need to have some supernatural beliefs about a soul or something. Then you have to worry about punishment in tghe afterlife and/or trying to achieve some purpose that god tells you. It's all just unwanted constraints.
It doesn't make any sense since it is so obvious that you're powerfully shaped by where are born, you genetics, how parents raise you, what happens when you're a child… It's chaotic, but it's not within your control what you end up doing
>>171974>you need feel no pressure about doing the right thing or achieving anything.
That is kind of the problem though, everything becomes meaningless. Not just meaningless as nihilistic absurdism, but true and complete meaninglessness. There would be no point in living, I think nonexistence would be more preferable at that point. Why would I wake up in the mornings if there is no meaning or even basic choice in what I do? Life is a continuous grind, better to stay asleep then. If there is no immaterial as you say, only the material, chemicals are your master and you the slave, I think the obvious and most objective choice is immediate suicide. What would it matter if my eternal nonexistence would come today or in 50 years? It would be inevitable.>where are born, you genetics, how parents raise you, what happens when you're a child
A man born an Egyptian slave still had free will. No matter how terrible and out of his control the circumstances one is born into, choice of mastery of the mind always exist.
>>171993>Why would I wake up in the mornings if there is no meaning or even basic choice in what I do?
Why do you wake up now?>What would it matter if my eternal nonexistence would come today or in 50 years?
Exactly, why kill yourself now? It matters not whether it's now or then.
>>171998>Why do you wake up now?
To attempt to find the answer to this question. Circular reasoning you may claim, true, I have no found the "Absolute Truth". The reason for waking up is to find a reason to wake up. Yet the reason is there, however faulty it may be currently. Without free will not even this faulty reason would exist, rather than wake up it would be better to fill the room with car exhaust and drift off to eternal sleep.>Exactly, why kill yourself now?
Perhaps I poorly worded that, the point was that the 50 years of nothing is not something of any worth. You would live 50 years, for no reason, no purpose, nothing would be controlled or motivated by yourself, you would not even be a spectator since there is no "you". I would ask if you did even indeed "exist" or if it was a "something" in those 50 years. Immediate suicide is the only logical choice in that situation.
No i understood exactly what you meant. My point is that if life is meaningless, and death is also meaningless, why show such preference for death? There's no rush.
Before I write what I was planning, I ask what preference for life do you give? I assume some "want to feel gud" argument, or is it "because the chemicals tell me so"?
Also don't take my post >>172003
as mocking or aggressive. That was not the meaning, but kind of reads that way I think lol.
It's the default, I might as well ride it out. Especially when I see people on /dep/ constantly lamenting and trying to go through with it but can't. Don't see much of a reason to agonize over it when it's coming for all of us eventually.
Hmm, I see. My written skills from mind to screen might not be good enough to convey this next idea. Never have I been praised for writing, so excuse me.
For myself, I do not see that "the default" as a good enough argument to carry on through the "mundane horror" of life as I think of it. A separation of the material from immaterial; with reason, rational, and free will I can get through what the body requires and implements. The body does not allow for happiness or contentment, for even the extremities of life such as intense drugs are normalized by the body. If not normalized then the body will be slowly destroyed, a fate far worse than a comforting death. Even when your life is threatened, gradually you will grow normalized to it. Beyond normalization and destruction, there is aging itself. The body is rotting within every day making everything harder, painful, and worse off continuously. Novelty too wears away with time, the world not unique enough and humans are not creative enough to stimulate that forever. If I had no external immaterial free will or reason to live, then a comforting death is objectively the best possible thing. To die in my warm bed seems what would be most preferable to anyone with any kind of intellect, at least upon reflection and thought of life. A death in comfort is eternal contentment, compared to a continuous struggle and pain renewing everyday.
Again, not sure if what I wrote is fully cohesive, so I add this train of thought below:
I imagine myself awaking from bed, I have to leave this warmth to the cold. Why? I have no reason to, as to leave this bed is to suffer, if only a minute amount, still I must suffer from the comfort and warmth to discomfort and cold. I comprehend of my own chemical brain, motivations and reasons do not exist, only a slight desire of feel good chemicals. Even after this I must go to eat and expend energy to put together a meal, this is not something enjoyable merely a requirement to sustain myself. Why sustain myself? Sustaining means the necessity of more requirements unending till death. To drift off back to sleep would be nice, then I would not have to get out of bed, or eat, or do anything. Sleep is pleasant and calm, life is not.
I understand what you mean. I guess our differences stem just from how bearable meandering through life is, on a personal level. I don't find it painful enough to warrant suicide, at least yet.
I suppose so. Indeed it could be just the brain chemicals that lead me this way, and yours that lead you that way. My theory is certainly not full proof to say the least, originally it stemmed from a thought of "I would like to exist, but if nothing matters and I cannot make or pretend something matters; I would pick non existence.". Thus I had to allow for free will to exist in order for myself to exist, which comes with a million other ideas such as the existence of immaterial. Yet the never ending search is why I am still here to talk with you, so what can I say, it worked I guess. Especially "the reason to live is to find the reason for live" needs immense work lol.
>>167400>If you want to be happy all the days of your pitiful mortal existence then lobotomize yourself, turn on the idiot box, and sit in front of it until you die.
This does not allow for lasting happiness. Should you have an actual method for happiness, sharing it would be infinitely more valuable than any other garbage you could spew and after stating it you would never have to speak again.
If you don't like living then yes just kill yourself. But meaninglessness isn't what makes you not want to live. A sense of meaning can only be instrumental in motivating one to continue living a miserable torturous life
Part of the enjoyment of living is the meaning you grant and create for yourself. It is a net negative on your life to believe free will doesn't exist. Cope or le "bluepill" as you might call it is a preferable existence objectively.
I fucking hate "dopamine" bros and this retarded vulgar neuro-reductionism view. Whole is greater than the sum of its parts
no name good
>>172100>Part of the enjoyment of living is the meaning you grant and create for yourself.
These are hollow words that do not represent any kind of process that ever occurs. You're not saying anything.
Dying is a gonna be a net positive to your life, regardless of if you successfully deluded yourself into caring about free will like it's remotely relevant to anything. It's not even on the level of a cope, it's a fun thought experiment for a few minutes.
reddit is just forums but at max normalfag levels. it is one thing to link to some specific article that is unfortunately found on reddit when the info int contains is relevant, but that guy has just linked the entire board. for what? you expect other to swim through that shit? fuck that
You normalfags are becoming too obvious and brave nowadays.
What gives you this confidence to out yourselves like this?
No, they are savage animals.
>>172117>You're not saying anything.
I am, you just refuse to consider anything else besides what you believe. You aren't nearly as nice to talk to as the other poster, he knew how to have a conversation; so this will be my last reply.
Drug thread is at bump limit and im not one to make whole threads for a blog post
>dropped acid last night for the first time
>veteran truwiz psychonaute, very experienced with DMT/shroomies/salvia/PCP & mescaline
>was real lsd, it passed the simple chemical field test twice and was also completely without taste & its effects lined up perfectly with those iv heard/read about
>had been sitting in my freezer for years so I cant even recall where exactly it was sourced but im gonna go out on a limb here and say “darknet”
>did it while alone in my room and without a phone (intentionally)
I did one hit just to see if it was real but more importantly still “good”. Maybe an hour after the walls started to breath and I was smirking so hard my face hurt I made the judgement call of “okay fuck it” and I stuck the 3 other hits under my tongue.
That was not a bad decision.
But wiz kids don't try this at home.
Despite my blog im gonna stick to the ama format if able
>>172294>That was not a bad decision.
Fuck you for trying to derail my thread, you'll never succeed
It was well worth it deciding to get as “high” as possible instead of pussy footing around
I also developed a certain of hypersensitive cringe towards similar things.
I once met a guy who had your symptom, he was diagnosed with -schizoaffective disease->>167241
Man, try holotropic breathwork first.
There are so many easier weird solutions out there…
You think i can diagnosed as schizoaffective?
Can i get bux from that?
Can i think my way into high-dopamine states?
Can i control the flow of oxytocin?
Is wireheading the end result of our collective human endeavour?
Yes you can. Try invoking the spirit of Dionysus.
It's too complicated for me to understand so it must be ooga booga.
Yes. That guy did.
Ghrelin (hunger hormone) and serotonin deficiency fucking up my 7 day fast again.
I'm trying to ignore pain as logically as possible, and now I can't focus on anything but the thought of eating food.
Fuck life and how it revolves around appeasing your brain with surges of hormones. No matter how much you try to break away from this it's impossible.
>>171615> and I believe it is, whats the deal with ego?
Ego is an illusion. I'm happy about you.
This anon makes a fine point.
Your brain chems and feelings are a means to an end not a purpose.
Your perception of reality does nott equal reality.
honestly friend its best not to even think about this stuff. in this case ignorance truly is bliss. you can go down these rabbit holes of determinism and wrack your brain for years but you will just end up insane. just live as if free will and good and evil exist
The honest to god truth is that we don't fucking know how conscioussness or the mind truly work, there are like 90 (or even more) theories of concioussness, every single neuroscientist/philosopher/psychologist faggot seems to come up with new bullshit ideas that they can't prove every day, from "consicoussness is an evolutive advantage" to "concioussness and free will are just an illusion" and also "concioussness is a quantum mechanism" honestly they all have no idea, they say they do but they really don't coming up with a complete theory of concioussness is akin to coming up with a Theory of Everything in physics in that everyone seems to "know" their shit but when they try to fit the pieces together everything collapses.
Just because some neuroscientist asshole claims that he can "see" your free will on your brain with fMRI that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, if free will exists (I'm not saying it does) of course it would be on the brain and would manifest itself as neuronal patterns, even a 10 y/o would understand that
Demiurge refers to saturn, a god of this world
can any wizard please explain with the function of the contradiction mixer in this image is?
Smoke weed (dopamine and serotonin stimulation and regulation and ghrelin mimicker intake) and inject oxytocin, internet socialize, problems weren't.
would you be willing to expand on your experience as a heroin user? any insights you would care to share would be greatly appreciated.
Yes. It's not a coincidence that most religions use a lot of aesthetical means in their rituals. In the end, all that shit comes down to brain stimulation so basically religions are just about worshipping the release of different brain chemicals. In ancient times they also used intoxicants in rituals as well as ritual sacrifices of animals, which I believe, is quite stimulating to experience. The Greek autists tried to replace common religion with math worship but of course that was fruitless.
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actually, your code might produce the same result, but I find it interesting to point out that because of branch predictors, your code is going to execute differently every time you run in even on the same hardware. Detecting hot code paths is a huge problem in this space and the heuristics we have ended up with cause this seemingly weird state of affairs. I wonder if this can be expanded as a concept to the universe metaphorically.