No.170475[Last 50 Posts]
Any vegan wizzies?
Why or why not are you vegan?
"From these practices it is perfectly evident that it is not for nourishment or need or necessity, but out of satiety and insolence and luxury that they have turned this lawless custom into a pleasure. Then, just as with succubi who are insatiable in seeking pleasure, their lust tries everything, goes astray, and explores the gamut of profligacy until at last it ends in unspeakable practices; so intemperance in eating passes beyond the necessary ends of nature and resorts to cruelty and lawlessness to give variety to appetite." - Plutarch the Platonist
All great wisdom traditions such as the Pythagoreans, Platonists, Rishis of India, Buddhists, etc were vegetarians and vegans. Great men like Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato, Plotinus, Porphyry, Plutarch, other Platonists, the legendary Rishis of India, Gotama Buddha and his spiritual descendants, Nikola Tesla (a most legendary wiz who gave us everything in the modern world), Leonardo DaVinci, Isaac Newton, all vegetarians/vegans.
Furthermore, veganism is irrefutable. The arguments are impossible to refute and the science sides with veganism. And the decadence which has been brought about by the higher consumption of animal products is palpable in society. Not only do you suffer physically from eating animal products, you also suffer spiritually, intellectually, and karmically. It has been proven to be the ideal diet wholistically and for all stages of life.
If I may say so myself, veganism is the wiz diet.
No sir. Veganism does not provide the body with the proper nutrients that it needs. It also comes off as a fad promoted by bourgeoisie cosmopolitans. However I am not against it for those living as ascetics.
I will also add that I would maybe do vegetarianism if I had access to or was skilled at preparing Indian food. Pajeet food is godtier even without meat.
I've been a vegetarian for about 3 years now. Not currently interested in becoming a vegan but who knows, we certainly have the technology and food availabity today to make it work. That said, I really dislike how you began this thread. I've read most of Plato's dialogues and don't remember anywhere being mentioned he was a vegetarian, much less vegan, same thing with Socrates. In fact, both Plato and Socrates were pious to Greek deities and most likely both made use of animal sacrifice, Socrates in particular is shown a few times straight up telling people to kill animals for the gods. The famous cock to Asclepius passage comes to mind. So no, most likely not vegetarians, much less vegans.
Same thing with Plotinus, I've read some of the Enneads and don't recall any veganism in there, though I might be mistaken, I would have to look through, but given the fact you straight up lied about Socrates and Plato, I can't take your word for it anymore. Also I know for a fact Buddhists are not vegans either, not even vegetarians, they can still eat meat if it's offered to them and the Dalai Lama himself follows this tradition and is not a vegetarian, so excuse me for placing his opinion above yours when Buddhist diet is concerned.
So basically every single person I know anything about in your list shows that you're lying and distorting the truth with no shame whatsoever. Why would you do this? It just makes me angry at you and your bullshit. You don't need to do that to prove your point, if anything it's just the worst start possible. Every other thing you said in your OP is now tainted.
Take my advice and just start this thread over without so much bullshit and I might contribute with my experience and how I became a vegetarian, it's actually a very interesting story. Other than that I have nothing else to ad to such a shitty OP to an otherwise interesting topic.>>170476>Veganism does not provide the body with the proper nutrients that it needs.
That was true until recently, right now we do have enough food tech to make it work, if you really want to do it at least, but this OP was so full of shit it really burned me down and I don't want to post anything about it now.
i eat whatever is in the house, i dont complain about food, and i dont comment on food that others eat. this is the neet diet
i dont particularly care about veganism or vegetarianism. nutjobs, cults, spiritualists, empathy zealots, annoying, obnoxious, condescending, holier than thou, etc… that is what i think when veganism and vegetarianism are mentioned
i dont care what other people eat… when you talk about it and try to convert others to your diet, i REALLY dont give a fuck
Listen you fucking cockscuker, I know more than you will ever know about Platonism. You haven't read any dialogues you fucking lying piece of shit, if you had you would know that in the Republic Socrates posits a vegetarian diet as the ideal diet for the state. You also don't know shit about the Platonic tradition, it's origins, and the successors of Plato. Plato and his teacher Socrates descend from the tradition of Pythagoras and the Pythagoreans, and further back Pythagoras learned from the priests of Egypt, vegetarians. It is more likely than not that they were also vegetarians. Also Plotinus' student, Porphyry, the man charged with writing and editing Plotinus' dictation, was a vegetarian or potentially vegan. He makes it clear in his "on abstinence from animal food" that a plant-based diet is the tradition he has received from his elders and not a novelty created by him, you fucking dilettante piece of fucking shit. And he also says that literally all great metaphysical traditions such as the Egyptians, Chaldeans, Brahmins, and so on were vegetarians as well.
Also I don't give a single fuck what the "Dalai Lama" does. I care about what early non-sectarian Buddhism and the Buddha taught and he taught vegetarianism as proven by the edicts of king Ashoka, the legendary Buddhist king that spread Buddhism across his domain and beyond. He prohibited the murder of animals and their consumption. And that a mendicant monk will eat meat if that is what is offered to him by the people doesn't make him a non-vegetarian, you fucking moronic imbecile stupid fuck.
So YOU take my advice and promptly kill yourself and thanks for exposing yourself as the unknowledgeable, ignorant, dilettante, fucking idiot that you are in front of everyone reading this thread. You truly proved that all of your "knowledge" on what you claim to know comes from Wikipedia, you demon from hell. Die!
I just love how you magnificently proved yourself to be of the polloi kai alloi, the unlearned mundane many, a normie, a dilettante, an ignorant fool, a buffoon, a clown, a fucking jester spouting his disgusting lies and doxa of which he knows not the littlest thing about. And the pride you take in "correcting" me is the cherry on top. And you managed to post your shitty reply full of shit three times, polluting the eyes of everyone reading this with your garbage. Die you miserable scum!>>170480
You're a hylic dog and will perish like the dog you are. Enjoy!
while writing that post, did you go through my post and put a checkmark next to all my criticisms, making absolutely sure to behave that way? amazing
you aren't veganposter, he was banned and moved on, but you are behaving the same as him. he wanted combat and his thread was a gladiator arena
It's a significantly less varied diet and I don't swing much toward antinatalism.>>170484
Column 4-7 are pure guesses and the second link comes with a disclaimer right at the start so I wouldn't put any value to it. Points for the effort of writing all of it though. >>170476>It also comes off as a fad promoted by bourgeoisie cosmopolitans.
Often it seems so, the ones who have some connection to the countryside or other countries are often more balanced in their stance.
Vegan Wizard reporting in. Gonna make this quick because I'm only here briefly (won't be able to respond to replies, btw).
I've been Vegan 10 years. I don't know that I'd say that veganism is 'irrefutable', but I really don't see how anyone making moral claims can't be pretty quickly exposed as hypocritical through raising the issue of veganism. I've talked to many vegans, and most of them are very genuine people, not the "loud and obnoxious" sort that's often held up as a strawman. In my experience the antis are most hysterical and loud. I hear much more often from them, in the same way that I've barely met an SJW type but deal all the time with people ranting about them.
I do think complexities have to be acknowledged. For example, while it's easy to claim that nothing justifies treating animals in this manner, even for our own continued existence or subsistence, the reality is that many\most societies in the world today involve consuming animal products, and people raised in those societies unconsciously accept it as normal until challenged. Even people who do the killing are often just taught that it's normal, I've met young succubi who knew the names of the cows they ate, or who had killed chickens themselves, at first felt revolted that humans could be that insensitive, but considering the conditions of their upbringing it's understandable.
Many people in situations of relative economic privation will have a harder time adjusting. As a NEET it's easy for me to take the time to make vegan meals, while people who work to survive are clearly going to be exhausted at the end of a day, and the nature of work encourages hunger for protein and fats. Obviously this doesn't make their actions morally justified, but it's just a reality of what humans are. So if you really want a vegan world, you have to consider the economic and social circumstances people are raised in. Even climate is a factor, for example speaking to people in Lappland, I realised that it's probably somewhat harder in freezing climates with whole winters where you don't see the sun, to maintain a vegan diet. So there has to be a lot of understanding.
All of that said, to refute you >>170476
, every major nutritional organisation in the world agrees at this point that an adequately planned vegan diet is more than sufficient to meet all needs, and in many ways it's healthier. Pretty much the only difference is that meat has more protein and more of certain minerals - but that is NOT necessarily better for you. ADEQUATE protein is important, but you can get that from a properly planned vegan diet, and for every bit of animal flesh or animal product that you consume, you're actually missing out on important nutrients like water-soluble vitamins, phytonutrients that fight cancer and keep you young and healthy, and fibre which is important when it comes to proper absorption of the nutrients you've consumed. My attached pic I made years ago in response to another image (the overweight asian boy was part of that image), the core point of which is that we evolved to be opportunistic omnivores, but in nature likely preferred a predominantly vegan diet - it's reasonably to assume that our bodies are kept in best health through this diet, our bodies evolved over time to benefit from and to some degree rely on nutrients provided primarily or exclusively by plants - hence for example our preference for high levels of Vitamin C, not found in animal flesh.
Someone here mentioned the veganposter, I don't want to be confused with him so let me state that I'm NOT that guy, if he's the guy I have in mind - he posts on that OTHER site almost daily(?) and one of the best points he makes is that it's morally inconsistent for Wizards\NEETS\Hikkis to complain about having been socially ostracised, isolated, bullied, etc and then to go on and consume animal flesh. So for Wizards, etc I'd say - I fully understand feeling threatened or upset or annoyed by this issue being raised, I felt the same at first, I was worried I'd end up a skeleton with brain damage, and I thought I'd spend long hours in torment longing for Quarter Pounders but in reality it really didn't involve any pain or longing, just a short period of adjustment and learning new recipes, and how to eat better. So please consider it. Nutritionfacts.org is one of the best resources on all of this, I watched hundreds of Dr. Greger's videos, he doesn't seem like an ideologue to me, he's reasonably balanced and regularly revises claims he's made in the past in light of new information.
The main point is make sure you take some B12 sublingual tablets, some Omega 3's (Vegetology Opti 3 is what I take), Zinc (the vegan diet typically has less minerals, and because of soil depletion some minerals like Zinc are good to supplement, meat tends to have high concentrations of these minerals but the FORMS and the AMOUNTS of those minerals are NOT healthy), if you're worried about adequate protein there are many vegan forms of supplement, I add some Sunwarrior Protein to my smoothies. It's only slightly more expensive per gram of protein than Whey protein, and I personally find it superior in that Whey always made me feel bloated. If you want to try this, you don't even have to go all out at once - you could try phasing in more vegan foods, find a vegan recipe or two a a week to try, try adapting some of the recipes you make to vegan.
Good luck, Wizards.
I don't care about the sufferings of anyone else but my close family. Spend a decade NEET, tell me vegan bullshit matters. Oh to be young and idealistic…
>The main point is make sure you take some B12 sublingual tablets, some Omega 3's (Vegetology Opti 3 is what I take), Zinc
>add some Sunwarrior Protein to my smoothie
thanks nature for providing us with these pills
>the reality is that many\most societies in the world today involve consuming animal products, and people raised in those societies unconsciously accept it as normal until challenged
yeah you gotta challenge these beliefs, gotta tell the world they are being mean and they should adhere to your moralistic, patronizi ng nonsense about animal suffering or whatever
Holy shit, what an extraordinary response.
Is it the first time you get called on your bullshit? You really thought you were the only person on the planet to have read Plato or god forbid, have an opinion on his writings? The passage you mentioned, Socrates seems to be concerned about the costs of eating meat and the consequences of a luxurious life, not some ethical or animal welfare concern like 21st century vegans. Plato and Socrates didn't have a problem with animal sacrifice. And what about in Memorable thoughts of Socrates, where he argues that the Gods put animals in the world for no other end than to provide men with meat and labor?
I guess you'll just say you don't give a single fuck about Xenophon either, then? Or anything in those books that contradicts your narrative? Because that's what you do. You align bits and pieces of those philosophies and religions from thousands of years ago, from people who lived in wildly different times from ours, and try to equate them to your 21st century vegan ideas and behavior. Of course it will fall apart pretty much immediately under scruitiny, what did you expect? You'll gladly ignore any meat eater Buddhists just to be able to say they're vegetarians, when they're clearly not. That you'll omit and select, to put politely, history to have your little narrative going is not why I called your response extraordinary though.
No, actually it's just I've never seen someone's false pretenses of having moral and ethical standards to be thrown out of the window so fucking fast! You come here posting all those cool guys from antiquity, trying to equate their thoughts with yours, pretending to have this overreaching loving-kindness ethical stance that extends beyond humanity and reach every animal life on the planet, preaching about karma and spirituality, along with a picture saying "I love all animals" and yet the second someone says something you don't like you start foaming at the mouth while violently and openly wishing people to kill themselves? I even winced when I read your post I was so amazed how false and dense you are. I guess that's why you almost shat yourself in anger back there, it really struck a nerve when someone was able to see you're a full of shit. Really made you completely lose your grip and show your true colors didn't? I never saw a mask falling from a psychopath's face so fast.
No seriously, compare >>170475
. It's amazing, I never seen anything like it.
I guess veganism needs no enemies having you as an ally. Rest at ease. I certainly won't be calling out on your bullshit again, you may rule your little thread unopposed from here on.
What a pathetic and insane cope post. You didn't even address any of my points, you nitpicked what you could (Socrates and Buddhists) and still failed. Socrates refers to meat eating as bad because of spiritual reasons. And I'm not "ignoring" meat eating Buddhists. I'm ignoring sectarian Buddhists who are not authentic Buddhists, and even they will not eat meat unless it is offered to them as well. And I already addressed that a mendicant eating meat that is offered to him is not morally wrong or against the teachings of the Buddha.
You didn't address Porphyry, student of Plotinus and editor of his works, or Plutarch, who were vegetarians or potentially vegans because you got brutally obliterated and exposed as the ignorant fool you are.
>I guess veganism needs no enemies having you as an ally. Rest at ease. I certainly won't be calling out on your bullshit again, you may rule your little thread unopposed from here on.
That's right shut the fuck up you dilettante fuck I made you my bitch in front of everyone in this thread. I blew out your back like the weak little boy you are. I am infinitely more knowledgeable than you and demonstrated it so. Your wall of text with no substance is pathetic.
I like veganism. Plant foods are cheap - especially beans. Beans are a dollar and they expand up to 2.5x their weight when soaked and cooked. They're easy to store, they store for very long, and they're a life food. They're full of fiber, which is something everyone gets their full fill of. Beans are just amazing and economic. They have tons of anti-oxidants too. The only thing I don't like about them is that if you're growing them, it's an ideal to shell beans. They're so cheap that it's not a problem for me, so it's just better to buy if you're being self sufficient. The same goes for other vegetables. Potatoes, rice, carrots, all those plant foods. They're cheap, nutritious, and great for you.
I just need to actually cook vegan food. I'm slow to change and I've known about veganism for two+ years. I have a few recipes to try, but I'm too lazy / scared to try anything new. I'll get there though.
Oh no, he is back.
I wonder what it is that makes these vegans so ascerbic. Inmendham is like this too.
>>170489>every major nutritional organization in the world…
yeah right, the same groups who want us to eat bugs also say that. Being a psuedo-succubus and flooding your country with aliens is perfectly good and healthy as well according to such "major organizations."
>be sure to take all your xyz pills
yup being vegan is so healthy just be sure to take all these pills and injections (like vegangains) so you dont fucking die.
Respect to the pajeets though since dal, naan, and coconut soup are amazing but even they utilize a lot of diary and eggs in their diet.
Is vegan cheese still totally disgusting and unable to be melted/cooked with?
I know vegetarian fake meats have come a long way but what about cheese technology?
nice vid…oh wait, no
not this faggot again
Modern day vegans are jewpilled soy consumers that had their brain already melted from xenoestrogens
"M-muh phytoestrogen! You're a soyboy!".
Screeched the ugly low-T fat wizard-LARPing crab.
Phytoestrogens cause ANTI-estrogenic effects in male bodies. Meanwhile the meat and dairy you drink is riddled with ACTUAL estrogen, the same type of estrogen created by human bodies. Being fat, which carnists often are, also has estrogenic effects. You're the soyim, and I assure you that I am more masculine and strong and have higher T than you will ever have. I guarantee you two are weak fat beta crab males and I would destroy you freaks in unarmed combat any day.
They're not the same groups you idiot and eating bugs wouldn't be vegan. ALSO, veganism is the most healthy diet and one HAS to take supplements like B12 because of modern farming. You can always eat fortified foods, no need to take supplements.>>170561>>170564
Oh also you FUCKING morons, literally every plant food such as rice, apples, carrots, coffee, etc, is a source of phytoestrogens.
Dumb shit like this is why I already knew this thread actually belongs on /b/ and not /wiz/.
It's almost like vegans have brain damage or something
No, veganism is form of zealotry/fanatism, anathema to wizardry.
I went down a rabbit hole with this guy a week ago. It's incredible.
I went from just thinking he's some random anti-vegan guy with a big ego, then you go on a trip of watching him eat raw meat, drink animal blood, then eat rotten year old meat, eat a random dead squirrel, watching him sungaze, say the earth is flat, to talk about how the Illuminati eats and rapes children. The final revelation that puts him above the rest is that he thinks this is a good thing that they shouldn't be hated for.
And he also hates Runescape.
I've been watching this guy too hahaha. Also Frank Tufano who I've bought meat from. I've even been eating raw rotten chicken livers. It really does give you euphoria, I thought everyone was imagining it and forgot about it being called "high meat" and then it happened to me.
I did not have to adjust at all to eating raw or fermented meat, but a week later I started drinking raw milk and I had to adjust to that. I think my intestines or stomach were inflamed for a week or two but I kept craving more raw milk.
I felt really good the two days I ate only meat. I'm not very steadfast so I've returned to eating the poison my mom buys. I'm fasting today so I'll use this time to clear some grass in my yard and set up my fire pit.
I'm not going to go carnivore I'm just going to be paleo and eat 80+% animal, raw, fermented and cooked. I'm interested in finding wild or heirloom plants to eat although I get enough copper from seafood.
Can you explain more about this guy's antics?
I can't bring myself to have to visually be exposed to it, but i am very interested in what is going on here
im not vegan 'cause i can't give a shit about what happens to animals.
Yes you do, you are just hurt and reacting to that
The Buddha wasn't vegetarian
>>170479> right now we do have enough food tech to make it work
So you're admitting that veganism is unnatural and artificial?
Chimps eat meat though. They even eat each other. Why are you people so deceived?
I really hate to be on the veganwiz side but if you read that picture you'd see they admit that chimps and other primates eat meat and insects.
Yes he was. Read the edicts of King Ashoka the Buddhist king, you fool, and then kill yourself for not even being able to Google.>>170693
Listen you moron, the reason we need to take B12 supplements is because of modern farming. The ancients were mostly (90%+) plant-based throughout history and even going back to the paleolithic.>>170694
They don't eat meat you buffoon, they will sometimes cannibalize each other which is wholly unrelated to their diet, or occasionally opportunistically eat meat.
It's not their standard ideal diet you retard. Cannibalism is a social thing not a dietary thing. And opportunistic meat eating is a survival thing, they wouldn't do it unless they had to. Plus this has nothing to do with human consumption of animals you fucking clown. Yet you carnists love to bring up how chimps eat meat but you aren't out there living like chimps. Just accept that you're a demonic normie from hell that loves to eat the tortured carcasses of dead animals because they taste good (taste given by PLANTS, you don't see carnist normieshits eating raw meat like chimps do but "OH BUT MUH MONKY EAT LE MEAT VEGAN BTFO!").
im an opportunistic vegan then. i eat pretty mcuh whatever but that's just because it's a survival thing as you say
these dumb nonvegans are sad! feeld good being better than everyone else
Isn't this just like humans though?
Some will enjoy the hunt and kill just for the sport of it
No they don't. Meat represents only 3% of their diet and they hunt and eat those monkeys for fun and not for food. But realistically it represents less than 3%. And bonobos which are closer to humans eat less meat.>>170707
You're the type of idiot that gets his
"information" from YouTube videos and podcasts. Maybe read an article on primatology you mental midget.
I tried to keep that post brief but here's some more detail I tried to refrain from. These are just highlights from a single day or two of watching him.
My first exposure to him was perhaps a year ago, making commentary on vegan videos, noting on how many of them subscribe to basic esoteric ideas from Eastern religions or New Age thought, like chakras or "vibrations". He would note this, and always throw asides on them being mentally ill.
A year later, I'm watching him more closely, and find videos of him staring into the sun for minutes at a time, strange considering the above statements.
In another video, he recalls landing in a mental hospital due to his frequent sungazing. Here he mentions starting to crave human flesh after not eating for some time, wanting to bite his doctors. I think he mentions that cannibalism is the inevitable result of veganism, but he also always paints cannibalism in a beneficial light. I've seen at least two or three videos where he includes audio clips of people talking about the supposed benefits of eating children, about how a child's flesh has properties that can keep people young and happier, and this is more effective when the child is in severe pain and suffering. He doesn't attack these supposed people, though, he says that being against this and being against anything is a sign that there's a problem with YOU, happy people don't get mad and the people eating children are staying happy. He says this in a video where he starts with talking about superhero movies being brainwashing trite, but with the weirdest criticism of the heroes being bullies for stopping the evil super killer bad guys who want to kill everyone. He also has videos about self-defense fighting. He talks about how all martial arts and self defense techniques being made-up shit that will never help you, and that actual fighting involves biting people and tearing flesh off them. I don't see anyone else mention this weird cannibalism shit of his, I think schizophrenics just hear people talk about satanic baby rapists and automatically thumbs up and get on their own soapbox.
Anyways, it's been found out that he stabbed several classmates in high school back in Latvia when he was 16. A former teacher apparently confirmed this when she was shown a video of him eating a dead squirrel in public in a London street, messing with its organs.
And continuing with his teenage year, he was really into Runescape. His earliest videos were Runescape related and he amassed enough of a following that I found still gets referenced in some corners today. He says that he stopped playing after realizing how much Masonic imagery is in the game or something weird like that.
He might has some disorder or something. He always speaks in an arrogant way, smug chuckles, it reminds me of those people who call you sheep and that you're living a lie, and then tell you to drink their piss and stop wiping if you want to break conditioning. They're the only ones who have everything figured out, while they enjoy their prions. Saying weird shit like the only people who have a problem with him blasting black metal in public are the clinically depressed. It's just hard to understand his mindset.
The only thing I learned is that neither veganism or these crazy meat obsessed diets are things I want to get into.
It's a video showing the entire process of chimps hunting and eating a monkey. It can't get more cut and dry than that. And even if it is only for sport, then this whole narrative that veganism is how people should live because chimps do is stupid because they hunt and kill for fun, so why shouldn't people?
If you are a vegan for ethical reasons and then advocate for the murder of people who disagree with you, then you are a hypocrite.
Damn, how self-obsessed can one person be?
I wonder if all of this healing bullshittery in fact perpetuates itself as a hypochondriasis
Are you literally saying that chimps do something, so why can't humans?
I can't even contemplate responding to that, my brain will start shrinking
the topic should be banned. attracts nothing but nutjobs and trolls.
diet and lifestyle talk in general is fucking worthless, it's no wonder succubi like it so much, but really i don't understand why they pop up so often in here.
I guess all you're arguments involving the dietary habits of monkeys are completely irrelevant and shouldn't have been posted then.
I have the feeling that this same thread or a very similar one with the same enraged veganposter/Op already happened several times before
He's admitted before that he's just trolling and he's not actually a vegan.
You missed the part about him drinking his own piss for two years, a question which i have asked about here before and was debunked
Self-obsessed piss-drinker laments that his health keeps getting worse after he keeps trying more extreme diet choices
He only tried pee-drinking briefly out of desperation.
So tell me what all of his navel-gazing self obsessing has led to, what has he gotten from it?
I guarantee there are happier obese normies eating handfuls of pills than him
And one just not simply drunk piss for a "brief" two years. That is some kind of undiagnosed mental illness.
Not that i am one to talk, in all honesty, i suppose it takes one to know one.
No I am not trolling. I am an actual vegan.
Post a pic of your pantry full of soifood then.
No but I eat soy nearly every day (TVP and tofu). You know what is actually "soy"? Meat and dairy which contain actual estrogen, the exact same estrogen produced in human bodies. Meanwhile, phytoestrogens from soy (and all other plants, they all contain phytoestrogens) have anti-estrogenic effects.
OP confirmed lying troll
That's not how logic works. If I refuse to prove that 1+1=2 doesn't mean it's not true. It means that I can't or don't want to do it.
You are panicking now because you know it's true. LARPers BTFO
The challenging part about veganism is fulfilling your nutritional requirements. A vegan meal itself doesn't mean it's a healthy meal. It seems like veganism would require a lot of supplementing or consideration into every meal consumed. I'm open to it if I had a nutritionist and someone to meal prep for me, but that alone tells me that humans are naturally omnivores. I just don't think I could give it the time and effort to make it work. If we ever get to a point as a society that I can go vegan without devoting any extra mental energy/money into doing it I'll make the switch, but probably not until then.
It's really not very hard. All these people saying you need supplements are vastly overstating the importance of those nutrients. Just eat a variety of plants and you'll largely be ok. Not that there's really any reason to be a vegan in the first place.
did you find out about that site from reading your mother's facebook page? good lord
No it wouldn't. Just B12 and fortified foods.>>170841
There is pain in eggs, man. Half of baby chickens born are roosters and they're ground up because they don't lay eggs. And the hens are crammed tightly in a big cage and when their egg-laying years are over they are murdered for their meat. As for honey, it's not for you. Bees make it for themselves. This was figured out a long time ago. And back then these animals were treated WAY WAY nicer than today. Today they are treated brutally (cows are raped, hens crammed, sheep tortured, etc).
"If, however, some one should, nevertheless, think it is unjust to destroy brutes, such a one should neither use milk, nor wool, nor sheep, nor honey. For, as you injure a man by taking from him his garments, thus, also, you injure a sheep by shearing it. For the wool which you take from it is its vestment. Milk, likewise, was not produced for you, but for the young of the animal that has it. The bee also collects honey as food for itself; which you, by taking away, administer to your own pleasure."
I've experimented with a vegan diet in the past but I find the meat is far too stringy.
if i died right now and never supported the meat industry again would it make enough of a difference to save even one chicken? that's my thought
RECTUM - CAPACIOUS
I have been veg more than 2 months. I think that pic is biased.
Which things on it are incorrect?
You would say that the problem lies inside the method instead than in the mere act of obtaining eggs.
It's not like bees were to be my suffering wagecucks, I mean, how much worktime am I adding to a bee while taking the honey? they have no other thing to do in life…
I once used to buy organic, yup.
Man, I would totally give you every hair in my body with no problem, specially if you pay me. Cattle are nourished and protected by the very humans (when things are done well) who take advantage from them. It can perfectly be a symbiosis, which never needs to be ended just because being carried out in a neglecitve way…
If your arm is broken, you set a bandage on it, instead of chopping it off. the same with these relationships, and be aware, than having milk, eggs and honey can surely give you a living without truly killing other animals.
Comparing us to wolves is disingenuous, should of used chimpanzees for that chart
Who gives a fuck about healthy? If you go vegan for health reasons you're a fucking tool. If you only eat meat for health reasons you're a fucking liar.
What are you talking about? The whole point of dieting is for health reasons
He's referring to the moral reasons, such as the pic in the OP.
That's not a moral reason, it's an appeal to emotion. If he has moral reasons he should delineate them. Is all killing immoral? What quality in a living creature makes it immoral to kill it? Is it immoral to kill insects, plants, bacteria? Are predators like wolves evil for killing other animals?
There is only 1 (one) single moral principle that will ever matter. Suffering bad.
It answers all of your questions. Either you accept this foundation of morality. Or you don't at which point who gives a shit about talking about morality with someone who has confused it for self-interest.
In that case you're obligated to support the meat industry. If you don't let the animals get killed in the prime of their life, they will get old and suffer even more.
The most moral thing to do would be to buy meat from hippy free-range companies since those animals have exponentially less suffering than wild animals.
The most moral thing under that premise would be to wipe out every sentient being from existence immediately.
You are selfish and evil for choosing to live in comfort rather than sacrifice yourself to kill as many babies and pregnant succubi as possible.
We must abolish all freedom, because freedom has the potential to create suffering. Because suffering is absolute Evil, pleasure is absolute Good. This is just logic. So we must kidnap all humans and put them in matrix-style capsules where we will continuously stimulate the pleasure centers of their brains for the rest of their lives. This will generate Goodness. If a human wants to escape to outside of our pure Good matrix, they are in effect generating Evil/suffering and thus should be slaughtered at all costs. Since our pure Good matrix generates only Good and no Evil we shall breed humans as much as possible to create more Good generators. Eventually we shall cover the earth with a blob of pleasure generating-flesh, nothing but Goodness.
Will they be allow to reproduce while in your pleasure capsules?
Because it is deficient. Veganism is an extreme…
>>171047>is it immoral to kill insects, plants, bacteria
Not unless doing so leads to unnecessary harm being inflicted on animals and humans (e.g. wiping out plants which provided a food source for a certain animal).
A line has to be drawn somewhere, ethically speaking. It is why you don't feel bad walking on concrete but would feel bad walking on a cat which is lying down in your path; one has moral significance, the other does not. The question is why, and the answer is because the cat (and other animals) possess the capacity to experience pain either directly via physical harm or due to deprivation etc. A pig is more intelligent and possesses a greater capacity for suffering than a comatose human being, so the distinction between the two is not straightforward.
Wolves aren't evil for being predators, because their survival depends on their eating meat. The average human being does not need to consume meat to survive except in extreme scenarios. We no longer live in an era where small-scale, localised farming is possible due to the massive population and the massive, consumer-driven demand for a great deal, and a great variety, of meat. This means the process of securing that meat becomes industrialised, which in turn means (and plenty of documented evidence exists to prove this) the systematic brutalisation of animals, mainly those which are content to exist by just eating grass etc. The reason for this systematic brutalisation of tens of millions of animals each year is not due to necessity but the selfish demands of consumers who want a bacon double-cheeseburger with chicken tendies on the side, without considering the harm inflicted on the animals which were raised, brutalised and slaughtered for the purpose of that one meal. And that doesn't even cover the amount of meat which is wasted either because people buy more than they need or because restaurants, supermarkets etc dispose of so much unsold food as a matter of routine.
The debate about vegetarianism and veganism absolutely relates to Wizardry.
So often the complaint across the various boards is that normies treat wizards with contempt, disgust and dismissal. There are threads about wizards being bulled either as a child or in the workplace, and how the tacitly accepted cultural norms of normie society are hostile towards wizards to the point of making people here feel depressed, abused, worthless etc.
Animals, particularly tame animals like sheep, cows, chickens and pigs which overwhelmingly only eat grass, seed and foliage (not by moral choice, but inclination), are in a sense animal representations of the wizard. While the normie alpha chad predators sit atop the food chain and strike fear into other animals, the sheep, cows etc just stand in fields eating grass and following their kin across the land. And how are these rather meek and pathetic animals treated? Just read about factory farming to find out.
Nah, I see myself as more of something like a bear or other solitary animal that does what it wants.
Wizards are not herd animals like sheep or cow. That shit is for normies.
So you compare wizards to normcattle? Kek i think you're on the wrong website, may i offer you a return ticket?
>>171211>le true wizard may may
Sorry but no, simply no
I don't buy that more intelligence = more capacity to experience pain. If so then cutting out the eyeballs of a genius would create more pain than cutting out the eyes of a retard. That doesn't make sense. Are there any studies regarding this?
>Wolves aren't evil for being predators, because their survival depends on their eating meat
If you start out with the axiom that suffering = evil then it shouldn't matter whether or not you're creating suffering in order to perpetuate your own existence, no? You've said that a human ripping out the guts of a rabbit is evil because it generates suffering. A wolf ripping out the guts of a rabbit creates the same amount of suffering, the same amount of evil. If a wolf is a creature that generates evil it would not be inaccurate to call the wolf evil.
In terms of suffering, I was referring to unnecessary suffering. For example, a wolf eating a rabit in order to stay alive, or a man in the wilderness killing an animal for want of an alternative, or even something as mundane as a farmer killing animals which eat his crops so that the supply of food to the local human community isn't jeopardised. All those could be interpreted as forms of unavoidable or necessary suffering, where suffering would exist either way. I wouldn't describe such actions as evil in the first instance because animals lack the capacity for moral action (as with children and the mentally retarded) and in the second instance because the starving traveller and the under-pressure farmer have to decide whether to suffer harm to themselves or their community or to inflict harm in order to prevent harm to themselves etc.
Unnecessary suffering is inflicting harm on a being capable of experiencing pain for reasons which aren't necessary to the continued survival of the being inflicting the harm. A poorly managed zoo is an example, where a dolphin wastes away in a tiny pool of water for no other reason than to provide pleasure to humans observing it, suffering both physical and mental anguish (evident by its listlessness, etc). Another example in my opinion is a human being who contributes to and therefore tacitly encourages the behaviour of the meat industry which, in its industrialised form (e.g. factory farms), necessarily inflicts not only the most obvious unnecessary harm (depriving an animal of its life) but also a great deal of physical and mental pain (evidence overwhelmingly proves this to be the case) as a matter of routine, simply to meat consumer demand as quickly as possible. Again I wouldn't use the word evil, because that seems to be linked to religious ideals, but I would describe such an act as unethical if it is true, which in most cases it is, that the person queuing for a double-cheeseburger in McDonalds can live as if not more healthily without paying for minimum wage employees in a factory farm somewhere to inflict harm on an animal for the purpose of shipping its flesh to a fast food restaurant where it can be enjoyed for about ten minutes by someone who, statistically speaking, is already overweight and therefore not by any means starving.
The initial point about intelligence and suffering is valid, and I agree with you. What I was trying to explain is that when many if not most people consider their ethical obligations towards other beings, the tendency is to draw a line between species which I believe is arbitrary and based on an unquestioned bias in favour of ones own species at the expense of another. An adult pig is more intelligent than a severely retarded human being, for example. The question is how do we decide who is worthy of our moral consideration and to what extent. Animal welfare laws exist for a reason, for example, but these again are arbitrary in the sense that what would be illegal to do a cat or dog is done on a routine basis to pigs and cows, both of which are arguably as intellectually advanced, not to mention as capable of suffering harm, as cats and dogs. Insects as I understand it have not central nervous system, and therefore do not experience pain (happy to be corrected on this). If we reduce the notion of a human being to something beyond its physical manifestation (e.g. by throwing a Rawlsian veil of ignorance over the physical appearance of animals and humans) we understand ourselves to be thinking, observing beings capable of expressing wants and preferences, and also of suffering and avoiding unnecessary suffering. Understood on this basic level, animals share these qualities with us and are therefore in my opinion worthy of our ethical consideration to the point where injuring an animal, much less killing it for unnecessary, fleeting pleasure, should be considered an unethical thing to do.
I do however agree that reality is complicated, and that issues such as tame animals dying in the wild through lack of human stewardship is an issue worth discussing, as is the overpopulation of animals and the suffering they thereby inflict on themselves through starvation and whether killing these animals via a gunshot is an ethical act when faced with the prospect of them starving due to the relative lack of resources available to the oversized herd etc.
Vegans are ultra faggots. They are up for capitalism that kills animals and wildlife directly or indirectly. But don't want to eat animals that are bred specifically for eating purposes. Exploiting cows for milk doesn't bother vegans though. And making soil infertile due to repeated farming that kills earthworms and other small necessary bugs don't bother them.
We bring the balance, we non vegetarians.
You should bow to our feet and follow our faith and ask for forgiveness for vegans are sinners
>>171293>exploiting cows doesnt bother vegans
wh-…. what are you saying? do you know what a vegan is?
>saying shit about farms that makes no sense
are you referring to crop rotations? because all farmers already do this.
I genuinely can't tell if you're a troll or just fucking retarded.
How come you can say this, but when i talk about meat the mods delete my comments?
nobody denying that humans are omnivorous creatures, veganism is about ethical task of ending animals suffering and abuse
Bambi, Fox & The Hound, and other talking animal movies indocrinate children into adopting the semi-conscious worldview that animal lives and animal minds are just as valuable and have just as much depth as humans'. Many children believe that animals actually have a language and can talk to each other, because they see it in movies all the time. Failure to address this indoctrination results in vegetarianism and veganism in adolescents and adults.
How can you be so stupid to think animals don't communicate with each other?
Animals show complex emotions and long-term thinking, such elephants grieving for each other and monkeys that can learn thousands of human words.
We are just animals too. The only way someone can justify shitbrained denial of this and place humans into a completely different category is being some indoctrinated-from-birth Christian that believes in things like souls
If an animal starts asking for rights I'd be fine with giving them rights. But they can't ask for rights, because they can't understand the concept of rights. They are not moral agents. It's stupid to grant them personal agency. Pic related, an elephant was tried and executed for murder. That's pretty stupid, you have to agree.
Once animals become moral agents they can be treated equally to humans.
What about children, are they moral agents? How about the temporarily insane? Or how about an elderly person suffering from dementia?
The fact that something isn't a moral agent doesn't mean they do not suffer nor that they have no preferences, desires, etc.
are you seriously comparing animals, children, and mentally ill people?
>>171323>Pic related, an elephant was tried and executed for murder. That's pretty stupid
animal control goes out and kills animals that have killed humans all the time, stuff like bears, crocodiles
Those aren’t trials, they’re extermination’s.
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They have the potential to act as moral agents. Animals do not.