>>172384>Creating things and learning is not entertaining.
It can be, if you are not doing it to be a better slave but to fulfill your own goals and desires for yourself.
The best (not from a technical quality point of view, of course) media in my opinion is that which is created by the author for consumption by the author or group of mutual interest. If it is acknowledged by others that is great, sure, bur media that is specifically targeted at some market is bound to be a watered down compromise.
Media really is just a great tool to patch things that you are missing into this broken mess of a reality.
Didn't that one guy end up eating that million dollar banana?
Why would you admit to that?
Cause he’s not trying impress anonymous posters on the internet with his pseudo intellectualism?
It's more like he's taking a stand for something. I find hard to believe anyone using an imageboard never heard of Beethoven and Shakespeare, even if you're 10 years old or something.
naruto and dragonball have better and 10 times higher volume of music than ashita no joe, Oshii's movies and other art anime you listed, I don't see why you're so opposed to enjoying things widely loved by both retards and smart people. Those manga you have are mostly just rape/relationships with succs and in your face sexuality. Dude wtf Paradjanov, are you fucking for real
here? I watched his one movie because it was included in the literature exams, and it was the most boring dull garbage shot on a 5 dollar budget, and a pointless adaptation. I don't see how can you ever argue for soviet movies other than come and see for rape of nanking enjoyers. Classical music? Any given 1000 modern artists on spotify are more fun to listen to and have more artistic substance than those randoms. Don't have anything to say about literature, but infinite jest is infinitely inferior entertainment and art to 07th expansion works, so there's no point in forcing yourself to read that garbage written for rich people. >>172299
well, you're sentient
>>172451>I don't see why you're so opposed to enjoying things widely loved by both retards and smart people.
Because the kind of person who responds to "name 5 artists" with a random hash of 70 namedrops with zero internal structure beyond containing a bunch of artists he thinks are obscure and difficult but also well-known enough that people will think he's smart for consuming them is the kind of person who has built his entire identity around being an Intellectual Consumer. He uses his media consumption to derive self-worth, not to have fun. Enjoyment is completely irrelevant, and probably actually detrimental since enjoying something is a bad sign that it's probably not complicated enough to make him feel smart.
I think the other side of this thread is generally going a bit too far, though. There are reasons other than pretentiousness to watch things which aren't just good mindless fun. "Art" media is still media, it does offer a genuinely different experience than you can get from more popular-oriented "entertainment" media, and there's nothing wrong with consuming it if you enjoy what it offers. I think this kneejerk reaction of "anything I personally find boring or pretentious is literally impossible to like so everybody must be faking it" comes out of insecurity from people who don't enjoy the stuff you get points for enjoying.
It's like that one guy who shows up every time there's an alcohol discussion; every time there's somebody who thinks beer or whisky or whatever is gross and has therefore decided that nobody could possibly like it since they don't and all of society for the last 4000 years has just been pretending to look manly. Whenever there's a value judgement in different tastes, people who don't enjoy the "good" stuff get defensive.
1. Nice bait m8.
2. Only boring if you think fast pacing is more important than proper plot and character writing.
3. Boring is a completely subjective point based on the individual, not something that can be attributed to any objective scale of value beyond personal enjoyment. In other words, not a good point of criticism for fiction.
and just because something is slow does not mean that it had horrible pacing. Horrible pacing would be something like fillers and expositions that do not have any meaning within the story. the good stuff i mentioned as such Texhnolyze and the works of Tarkovsky did neither of those. It isn't redundant, as every episode had a meaning to the overall plot, there were no fillers, and there was no meaningless symbolism or imagery throughout.in the GOAT of anime Texhnolyze Every faction was explored, from the members of the rakan to the organo to the salvation union's ideals. This made the payoff all the more satisfying. Do you want a story where the universe is not thoroughly explored? Do you want a universe where the characters are not thoroughly explored? No? Well, don't complain about art films and anime reasonable pacing.
> … reading books … should not the one focus instead on … learning skills instead of mindlessly consuming media and escapism?
Where is the line between consuming and not consuming. If I read a book learning about topic, skill I'm interested in, but which I won't do/create anything with practically, or if I don't have any practical goal in mind, is it consuming or not?
Another question. Is it worth trying to create, even if you have no passion for it? (e.g. to learn making music or drawing) Can you grow this creativity muscle by trying to do/practice creative things?
Hmmmm… so a 22 episode series with an intriguing goal to reach at the end of it's run is more boring than a 110 episode series with nothing but boring dialogue and dated animation to boot (even for it's time). Very interesting.
The first fourth of the story is made to be as incomprehensible as possible. The characters talk little to no-at-all, exposition of what is going on is minimal though.
Only if your goals and desires (if any) surround creation. I find it boring, time-consuming and difficult. The assessment of the best media being designated for an isolated niche is accurate, however.
I've read the Iliad and it was just badly written. Period. The same descriptions and the same choice of words used all over again, plot was nothing extraordinary, characters were boring and unlikable, the point of the thing was essentially "don't whine and just be a good soldier bro". Not to mention the ending, what the fuck kind of ending was that? Where is the conquest of Troy itself, Homer? What the hell, I can shit out better endings than that.>>172237
This! Trashy stuff is where it is at. I would take a Stephen King novel over some boring but widely-acknowledged classic any fucking day of the week.
Eventually, you'll get bored as fuck. Unless you watch porn all day. That's when you make stuff.
Do you not think that the artists today will be revered by people like you in the future? I'm familiar with the "greats" and debussy is based but only focusing on these as "real" art and saying that contemporary art is penis vagina vulgarity is ignorant. There are so many more mediums and artists than you know.
This is such a fucking tiresome take. You know how I know anyone who ever says this shit doesn't actually believe it? They go online every day to self-righteously brag about their big boy plan of abstaining from all "consooming". That somehow sitting in the corner and watching paint dry is the answer to their problems or that they're gonna become some artistic virtuoso overnight by doing nothing all day. You wouldn't be so insecure that you feel a need to come here and present the idea to others online if this was actually the way you lived and not some stupid lifestyle branding that's just another way to say something about yourself as a consumer.
You know, I'm beginning to realize that everything is a big waste of time by some numbskull's standard. Do whatever the fuck you want with your spare time. We all have at least heard of Ben Franklin, right? Maybe read his autobiography? But no one's heard of nor cared about the drunkards he worked with at the printing shop in London for at least 200 years. They thought they were a big deal and called him the "water American". Look who's laughing now. In all likelihood, you and everything you did won't be remembered 3+ generations down the line whether you watched anime or played the clarinet badly. Just don't go full nihilist and squander your life. Keep the money flowing in and take care of yourself you fat fuck. Don't go around strangling people in back alleys. You'll only end up homeless, dead, or in prison respectively. Prison - now there's a waste of time. If you think harmlessly consooming is bad, put yourself in Richard Kuklinski's position - contract killing cost him his final decades on this planet, God rest his soul. Understand?
most of those are crab poltards that have all the social resentment that communists crabs have but frame it as some self righteous tradcuck religious moral cause instead even though they spend all day on porno and anime ibs telling people what to do with their money and time. They are just seething commies hating anyone with more leisure time, disposable income/neetbux or less care about wagecucking than them
I notice a lot of those poltards come from rural shitholes and romanticize rural lifestyle, when i lived in the countryside i saw how people had to tear down several family home's walls to remove a dead person because they were so fat and were such hoarders of junk that there was no possible way to get their dead bodies out of their homes except with cranes and shit like that. when i read all those normalchan wojak memes i see nothing but projection and cope from fat hicks and wageslaves.
Are you even capable of talking without buzzwords?
>>175382>that entire second paragraph
believe it or not theres a world that exists outside of america.
All of the *ooom type memes are retarded oversimplifications designed to shut down individual thought in order top adapt to a meme take.
Correct. I assert Art is objective, it just doesn't seem that way sometimes because of the individual variances between people and the fact that humans aren't capable of defining every variable in the system of art to be able to measure a piece of Art's "goodness."
There is a tendency to call things that humans just aren't capable of understanding "non-existent" or "subjective", which is just retarded. Different people have different opinions on the best food for example, but there is still a tendency to think shit sandwiches aren't as good as turkey ones. If there is a massive tendency in humans to prefer one thing over another then that is the objective good, and the individual environmental effects that cause someone to break away from the average are part of a persons subjective component. If someone grows up eating raw maggot cheese they might develop a taste for it, but that is part of the learned subjective component. If they were a natural blank slate so to speak, they would align much more closely with what we'd call "objectively good" taste it food.And imagine if schools and colleges intentionally and carefully associated terrible tasting food with good feelings. They only let popular kids eat maggot cheese in school, called those who didn't creepy weirdos, and in college mass indoctrinated people into believing maggot cheese is the highest culinary form. People would believe it and assume that the flavour must be entirely subjective because in the past it would be thought of as disgusting. This is the modern world and Art.>>173410
Literature equivalent of someone who consumes junk food. Junk food doesn't taste better, it just has the highest goodness for the lowest effort. It isn't bad but it isn't good.
I loved the Iliad. Not including the sacking of Troy is because the book is actually not about taking Troy, it's about Achilles' selfish rage and tragedies of war. The jarring ending is intentional. Instead of a glorious "And now we crush our enemies and WIN!" you see Hector kissing his wife goodbye, loving his child, and then leaving to get literally betrayed by the Gods and slain by Achilles. Then you see Achilles' worthless rage result in nothing but the eventual burial of his supposed "hated" enemy.
>>171915>If you 'truly' hated the world or were depressed you would kill yourself, you wouldn't feel the need to make it known to all
>implying killing yourself is easy
Fuck off back to facebook and instashit you absolute normgroid, even many normalfags are more enlightened than you when it comes to this.
Exactly, that's why neoliberalism and individualism are so devastating. This political philosophy is going to destroy the civilisation. The conclusions you made in your post are valid and derived from neoliberal individualism. I bet it is the side effect capitalist owners did not think about it when they were creating this philosophy.
Expanding your own assests of power is the only worthwhile use of time. It's the only thing that improves your own agency and until you can comfortably know that you can face other active agents of the world without being utterly humiliated, you shouldn't waste time on other things.
Challenging thoughts, substance, creativity,quality. All vague meaningless terms. Can you art fags actually elaborate on what separate muh art and other entertainments? The way you always talk about art make it sound like some kind of mumbo jumbo magic crap that I would mistake you for a new age guru who think that reading dostoevsky will make him reach nirvana or something. Maybe I am a plebeian but I don't see anything "higher" about art.
The way I understand it, the only thing "real art' has over "lower form of entertainment" is that the former touch on concept and feelings that are subtler, usually difficult to grasp and requires a deeper thinking and reflection on oneself than the kind of thinking one do in their daily lives. That's it. It's just a form of pleasure that is more valuable because it's less common. It stimulates part of your brain that isn't usually stimulated therefore it's special. When you think about it the activity of pursuing uncommon mental sensations for pleasure is highly decadent. I just don't see it. This magical art that is supposed to give life meaning, change my life, makes me in touch with the universe, cure cancer or whatever you people claim it to do.
On the most general level, art is simply human expression. I think the only difference between so-called "real art" and "lower form of entertainment" is simply that the former puts emphasis on masterful use of its particular tools of expression and unique, novel ways of expression, at the cost of accessibility. The latter mostly just cares about sales.
Consider something like Marcel Proust's "A la recherche du temps perdu" which is long and tedious, but it features masterful use of the French language as well as a novel, unique expression of a certain kind of lifestyle. Is this better than reading Harry Potter? No, it's just written for different purposes. Harry Potter was designed to be easy to read and to be entertaining, to sell to a wide market. It features simple language and familiar ideas, attempting something different would make it much less successful.
Pseudo-intellectuals like to use so-called "higher" art like poor people use expensive iPhones and gold chains to pretend they're part of a higher social class. One can easily go from binging a Netflix series to reading a "high-brow" novel and then go back to watching Rick & Morty without any problem.
The way I see it, the point of art is simply to convey human experiences i.e. sensations, lessons etc. Because one person's experiences are of course very limited, art allows one to briefly see what other experiences are like. This is why art that makes one think differently or does something new and unexpected may be seen as more valuable, because it expands the experiences. Whereas watching the same old capeshit film with a predictable plot adds nothing really new to one's life. Of course if you don't want to experience new things, and enjoy doing the same old things repeatedly, then it makes sense to not care about the quality of art you consoom.
Honestly, OP? I don't think so. I've gotten alot out of the media i've consumed. For example, all of the story/dialogue heavy games/Visual novels I played when I was younger probably contributed to why I was so far above all my peers. By listening to alot of music, you can intuite music theory. By reading stories, you can be exposed to new ideas and philophies.
You can learn/take alot from books/movies/games ect, you just have to be consuming the right media.
Escapism is also important for coping in this world. If you aren't coping, it's harder to create or learn new things. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Unless you buy into some idea of transcendence there is no meaning to "wasted time". If you do, the only actual purposeful activity is the one that brings you closer to transcendence. Media may be used in this sense for catharsis, that is, the purification of your emotions through the resolution of the narrative.
>is consuming media the single biggest waste of one's time? watching tv shows, movies and anime, playing video games VN, listening to music, reading books and manga, is it all worthless junk?
No. That would be watching the news and normie gossip. At least a Moe Anime makes you feel content instead of being stressed out by the news. Consuming narratives that reinforce the System are put on a pedestal for a reason.
The news might have a tornado warning. Both are fictional but one might have some grain of truth and usefulness to it.
You can check the weather and your trade/professional outlets for that. But the "big N" News… It's infotainment at best. It is an endless stream of nothing, that will be forgotten by most people and never acted upon on.
The two basic things in life are surviving and reproducing
Anything else is a "bonus"
I've spent the majority of the last 15 years flitting from thread to thread with barely any involvement, never really learning anything. Barely making any connections.
I've rarely if ever watched anything I really enjoy and now I can't do it at all.
I envy people who say they spend their days consuming media. Besides the actual enjoyment, they end up picking up things from media whether they're intending to or not. Even if what they're consuming is garbage, they still absorb various facts and culturally relevant info from it and have some topic to discuss about which they're at least passably knowledgeable.
It sounds so much more edifying than the life I've lived which feels like barely a step or two above locked-in syndrome.
You completely ignore the fact of evolution.>>176486
Change your life. Now. Never too late. Imageboards are just as cancerous as real life communications can be. Reduce the time you spend on chans and watch some movies. It isn't that hard.
learning skills for what?
In the end yes its a waste of time i wasted the last 6 years of my life doing nothing in my room i feel like my life its over
I've consumed a lot of japanese media. Now i'm able to listen and read japanese.
Are you the same asshole who keeps bringing up this "evolution" bullshit on /dep/? Can you take your own advice and fuck off already?
I don't know, I'm pro-life and pro-social darwinism so you could be describing me.