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File: 1597430313789.jpg (179.33 KB, 1366x768, 683:384, watamote-6.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

 No.171810[Last 50 Posts]

is consuming media the single biggest waste of one's time? watching tv shows, movies and anime, playing video games VN, listening to music, reading books and manga, is it all worthless junk? should not the one focus instead on creating things and learning skills instead of mindlessly consuming media and escapism?

 No.171811

>>171810
yeah pretty much

 No.171812

>>171810
I think media is one of the few things that justify existence. Through media people create art about human living, and can create infinite worlds just through imagination. Media is one of the ultimate creations of intelligent life.

 No.171813

>>171810
No, no and no.

 No.171814

>creating things and learning skills
How is that any better? Everything you create will inevitably turn to dust, everything you learn will be worthless when your body is being lowered into your grave. The only thing that matters is to have a good time while it lasts. The only exception is when the temporary inconvenience is outweighted by he usefulness of the skill/thing being created, in which case the time spent doing something unpleasant can be seen as a bit of an investment into the future.

 No.171815

Things can only be judged as wasted if there is a purpose in mind for how a limited resource should be used. A machine intended to provide kinetic energy is said to have wasted its fuel that it converted to heat or unneeded vibration but you wouldn't call a heater's production of thermal energy as being wasted. If you want to judge whether something is a waste or not you need to have a purpose in mind first. If you have nothing you want to achieve then you can't waste anything. Well, I kinda want to do something but I'll just procrastinate some other way even if I don't consume media anyway.

 No.171819

>>171810
Best thing is, consuming media is as good as staring at a wall for your survival but creating media is a very lucrative job. Not only it pays good but you can work remotely which means working any time you want and from anywhere in the world.

 No.171820

>>171819
Post your work and tell me how much you earn.

 No.171821

>>171817
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

 No.171822

if you are interested in entertainment, how is watching some entertaining tv show for example a waste of your time? you are acting in your interest. acting against your interest is a bigger waste of time. if you are a slug that just wants to exist and not aspire to anything great why should you feel bad about it

 No.171825

File: 1597442461779.jpg (81.7 KB, 640x612, 160:153, 1596446235904.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

Anything can be evaluated as a "waste" depending on how you conceptualize your goals. If you want to have a good time and relax, then consuming media is about the easiest way to do that. In that frame, reading a textbook wouldn't accomplish your goals and would be a "waste" of time.

The question becomes more complex when you take up a meta-frame and consider what should be your "goal" in the first place. Is that "maximizing happiness"? Would spending years becoming a lawyer do that better than enjoying anime all day but being a pizza delivery guy? Even if you could calculate the "utility" of any decision evaluated according to some goal frame, you'd have no way of evaluating what that goal should be without a meta-goal and that without a meta-meta-goal (and so on, recursively).

Anyway, turns out there's a whole branch of philosophy that's concerned with "how you should live your life" called ethics. Maybe you should read Aristotle's "Nicomachean ethics" as an introduction, then read some more and then ponder these complex questions for years until you develop a personal philosophy that seems right to you. Of course, you'd be "wasting" your time if finding the answer isn't your goal.

There's no way to possibly win this game.

 No.171826

Everything is completely meaningless, it's all the same. There is no way to not waste your time.

 No.171827

>>171825
>If you want to have a good time and relax, then consuming media is about the easiest way to do that.
False. Meditation is the easiest way to do that. Addiction to information consumption is not pleasurable.

 No.171838

>>171827
oh for fucks sake go preach your secular prayer to people who care

 No.171841

Nah. You learn a lot from consuming media. Especially good media. Imagine a musician not listening to music. Or a writer not reading books, and so on. Or basically some artist not consuming art. it's stupid. you need inspiration.
I think someone called this a brainfart thread and his post was deleted, I'm posting to tell you that he was right.


Besides, you are not here to create things or be creative. Either way. Your reasoning is retarded won't waste my time explain further why is that.
Also you haven't given any reason why we SHOULD focus on creating things. Brainfart thread.

 No.171844

If we consider the fact that nothing holds real value because we're all going to die eventually (and humanity and even the universe itself will end sometime) then everything is pointless,life itself has no meaning,even if you're the greatest super human to ever live you will inevitably die and so all your achievements will mean absolutely nothing.

That said I would rather waste time doing something I enjoy instead of doing things that make me suffer,yes it's a waste of time but everything is,the purpose of every single thing you experience is just to keep you busy while you wait for death,and that applies to everyone.

 No.171850

File: 1597485580413.jpg (374.3 KB, 1200x1600, 3:4, 1581454104357.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

Nothing is a waste of time ultimately.

Hedonism is the same as asceticism. Everything is united. Live in the moment and try to enjoy life. As long as you live in the now you will naturally gravitate towards what you enjoy, whether that be creativity or learning, or consuming media. You aren't going anywhere because there is nowhere to go, so do things in the present which is all that exists. That means if you're learning to paint don't worry about how long it will take you to reach the level of the old masters but simply concentrate on the now. Purge all worry and anxiety about the past and future from your life, because soon enough your body that exists only for a short time will cease to exist forever with all of its contents (thoughts, memories, skills, knowledge, etc), and the little drop of water that is your consciousness will reunite with the sea of consciousness.

Maybe this is dumb and you might disagree or not even read but that is my humble advice to you after much thinking about this very question.

 No.171857

>>171825
Good post

 No.171860

File: 1597497733012.jpg (185.34 KB, 794x605, 794:605, ligotti nowhere.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>171850
I like it, wiz. A bit more optimistic than this quote by Ligotti but ultimately the same idea.

 No.171868

>>171860
Thank you, i almost forgot to re-read something by our lord and savior today.

 No.171883

>>171868
Your lord and saviour?

 No.171892

>>171883
Many wizards hate Ligotti for having a semblance of fame and reputation in the normie world (mostly through True Detective and his horror writings). Also, for non-autistic wizards, Ligotti's systematization of the futility of this world and his consequent antinatalism is intolerable.
Hence the normie-tier sarcasm behind which is a NOOOOO! crying glasses-wearing wojak reddit edition (TM) burnt wizie.

 No.171909

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>>171892
Ligotti is a cringe character. Despite being "depressed" and "anhedonic" all of his life, which he makes into the whole of his pathetic personality, he has been able to write and become rich and famous? His "conclusions" that "nothing matters, the world sucks, boohoo" aren't new or intelligent, or even articulated in a new fresh way. Antinatalism is reddit and you and all "depressive antinatalists" are the archetypal reddit soyjak collectively "NO!"-ing at how others live their lives.

He's probably a repressed tranny or crab seething at the world, as is evident by his disgusting physiognomy.

The "truewiz" isn't the type to be "antinatalist", that is to think at all about the decisions of others. Being "autistic" doesn't make you unique or special either.

 No.171910

this assumes you can get good at any of these things. the time you spend watching media isn't easily converted into productive time as everyone has their limits as to when their brain doesn't want to play ball.

 No.171912

>>171909
> judging a wizard, nay, a man, by his looks
Off to Instagram back you go, friend.
> being such a vitalistic, world-loving, un-depressed
Back to reddit you go, friend. Be sure to smell the flowers and take some photos for your Facebook timeline as well, friend.

 No.171915

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>>171912
Physical appearance correlates with personality, criminality, attractiveness, etc. There is nothing unwiz about analyzing someone's appearance and judging accordingly. You and everybody else does it unconsciously anyways.

Hating the world and being depressed while telling others about it and making it the whole of your persona doesn't make you cool. Maybe it does if you're a normie in your teens or twenties. If you 'truly' hated the world or were depressed you would kill yourself, you wouldn't feel the need to make it known to all by for instance writing cringe books about how "the depressive" is a tortured genius who sees the world as it is while "the normie" is the dumb sheeple and does not see reality.

Or perhaps my intellect is so eclipsed by your tortured genius that I cannot even fathom the depths of your mind that has been tortured by this evil fucked up world, I live in lala land while you of course live reality raw and uncut, right?

 No.171917

>>171915
>cringe books
Cringy. The word you're looking for is "cringy". Cringe is a verb, whearas cringy is an adjective. Please learn the difference if you intend to post on wizchan in the future.

 No.171928

>>171915
>Or perhaps my intellect is so eclipsed by your tortured genius that I cannot even fathom the depths of your mind that has been tortured by this evil fucked up world, I live in lala land while you of course live reality raw and uncut, right?
Absolutely yes.
The same ideological science you're using to justify physiognomy can be used to make a pro-pessimism argument, since optimism and breeding are both correlated with low IQ. Optimism is evolutionary useful in order to nurture children, at the cost of affecting one's ability to think about the world around. That's why succubi are more optimistic than men.
It's also odd how you admit that people can be genetically inferior while expecting them to see reality in a positive light. Usually normgroids like you gaslight them into thinking that everyone is created equal, and that only effort sets us apart.

 No.171931

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>>171915
I see other people tried to argue with you as well. Anyway, you seem to espouse a sort of early period Nietzsche take on the issue.

You'll grow out of it, maybe. For no other reason that it is such a transparent rationalization of a cognitive dissonance that it's hilarious.

>There is nothing unwiz about analyzing someone's appearance and judging accordingly.

Then you are a normie. That's why I told you to go back to Instagram. Spoiler alert: becoming conscious of an uncoscious thing is the first step to adjust your behavior. Except it seems like you don't want that. You are probably a simp simping a succubi on OnlyFans, pissing yourself when a Chad asks you something, appear in your dreams as attractive and popular, etc. Again, back to facebook you'd be better.

>Hating the world and being depressed while telling others about it and making it the whole of your persona doesn't make you cool.

I posted a quote from an author I like. Being cool is completely orthogonal to truth, if not outright opposite. You probably stayed to much on a facebook nihilist group or something. Look at the views and ratings for any video on Benatar or Ligotti. They're not popular. Except in a small bubble which you seem to visit but are unhappy to. Just unsubscribe from that facebook group, friend. Stay safe on Instagram: lookism and vitalism all the way, no risk of antinatalism.

The last phrase is hyperbolic in the same early Nietzsche way and as anything like that it cannot be rationally argued with. Go with the Dionysian flow, wiz, go you. A single point of contention: for Ligotti the world is not "evil fucked up" it's only malignantly useless.

 No.171937

>>171915
>>171909
>every person is created equally
>everyone can be a genious
>everyone must kneel to society and its demiurge
>free will exists lol can't be healthy just pray or have healthy genetics
And so on

 No.171939

I'm glad there's some pushback against the normification of the site because it's gotten old to constantly see: a wizard is someone who is completely normal in every way besides not having sex and maybe some fringe political opinions and happy.

 No.171942

>>171915
>>171909
What is your problem, succubus? Because only succubi judge people based on their appeareance. Go back to your normie friends and suck them off.

 No.171967

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>>171810
Clearly you have never heard of Synthetik.

 No.171970

>>171915
There is nothing wrong with this post.
Where did all of these crabs come from?

 No.171982

>>171967
Redpill me then.

 No.172044

>>171841
Every time I see an artist talking about their inspiration it is always something tangible or a life experience.

 No.172045

>>171983
Evidently.

>>172044
Many artists draw from other artists.

 No.172051

Other Wizzies in this thread have done a good job of breaking down the wider philosophical aspects of these sorts of choices, so I’ll just mention something that touches more practically on the question.

A few years back I started logging every movie and TV show I’d watched, manually in a spreadsheet, to get an idea of how much time I was spending. As it turns out by the end of an average year I’d spent something like 800 hours watching shit. Now I did get something out of that time and so claiming it was all a waste would be silly, but logging and tallying that time taught me that by comparison the amount of time I’d spent on practical improvements to my own life was very small. If I had invested more of that time trying to make a bit of extra money somehow or planning my meals better or exercising more, I would definitely be in a better living situation today. This might not apply to a lot of people and perhaps I’m an outlier, but it might be worth considering.

Actually one philosophical aspect I will add, is that I came to observe something pretty upsetting about society in general, and that is that all the systems of state coercion, the giant debt-hierarchy people are forced to climb, all the wagecages and pseudo-prisons of office spaces have all pretty much come to serve people’s desire to simply “be comfy” and passively watch shit on a screen, and movies and TV always promise ‘knowledge’ and ‘wisdom’ and ‘insight’ into the human condition, etc. and at first it feels like watching this stuff is helping you to genuinely expand and become a wider person… but ultimately it’s just a simulacra, and this need to constantly view things or feel ‘left out’ of wider culture pushes you into compulsive viewing, and ultimately divides people and contributes to our enslavement and isolation. Plenty of normalfags have commented on this too, the pressure to binge watch and having a giant ‘backlist’ of things to view, so I know it’s a wider issue. So ultimately while I’ve somewhat broken free for now from wage slavery etc, many many other people are trapped by it in horrible circumstances, many people are trapped in factories building these devices for other people to simply “be comfy” and get the sense of greater worldliness - which is empty because that worldliness is predicated on ignoring the suffering of other people. I’m aware that my not participating won’t somehow save anyone, because most people will continue watching their screens, but I think it’s a valuable insight into how ultimately empty this all is. So maybe… actually trying to be your own person and NOT have regard for the false hopes offered by media would somehow make you a ‘cleaner’ more beautiful person.

 No.172076

>>172051
If everyone stopped consuming to focus on creating, there would be too much things created and nobody to consume them.

 No.172077

>>172076
If you don't create you won't appreciate what you consume. If you don't consume you won't be inspired by amazing ideas to create. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy.

 No.172078

>>171810
Yes OP. It's retarded. Also, you forgot porn.

This year I quit porn and video games and am spending more time outside. This shit ruined my life but I still have time… i guess. It's so hard to change when you watch porn and play video games. Oh well, I can go outside now and hopefully things will work out hahaha

Its better to spend the time you have learning a skill instead of wasting your time.

 No.172079

>>171841
there are two paths that lead to greatness and one path that leads to mediocrity and shame. These paths are both physical and spiritual, and these two aspects are intricately tied together.

Let us start with the path to mediocrity and shame. Imagine an obese, disgusting man who eats junk food all day. That is the physical. The spiritual is the consumption of trash media. Consume, consume, consume. A man who consumes pop culture garbage all the time such as Marvel movies, Harry Potter books, etc. This man is spiritually and mentally sick and out of shape.

The first path to greatness is asceticism. This means minimizing one's consumption of all media, or in physical terms, food. Meditating on God and praying to Him rather than focusing on consumption of media. This leads to a man who is healthy and spiritually trim and fit.

The second path to greatness is spiritual "lifting," as it were. In physical terms, one must lift weights and eat lots of protein in order to get big and strong. In mental and spiritual terms, this means exercising your mind and consuming GOOD, healthy media such as philosophy, high art, classical music, art films, as the works of Bresson and Tarkovsky quality and good literature, the teachings of Jesus, the Vedic scriptures etc. This does not mean, however that one does not ever pray and meditate. To be get strong, one must rest one's muscles, just as one must rest in union with the divine to get spiritually strong.

 No.172080

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 No.172081

>>171841
On the topic of consumption, there are two paths that lead to greatness and one path that leads to mediocrity and shame. These paths are both physical and spiritual, and these two aspects are intricately tied together.

Let us start with the path to mediocrity and shame. Imagine an obese, disgusting man who eats junk food all day. That is the physical. The spiritual is the consumption of trash media. Consume, consume, consume. A man who consumes pop culture garbage all the time such as Marvel movies, Harry Potter books, etc. This man is spiritually and mentally sick and out of shape.

The first path to greatness is asceticism. This means minimizing one's consumption of all media, or in physical terms, food. Meditating on God and praying to Him rather than focusing on consumption of media. This leads to a man who is healthy and spiritually trim and fit.

The second path to greatness is spiritual "lifting," as it were. In physical terms, one must lift weights and eat lots of protein in order to get big and strong. In mental and spiritual terms, this means exercising your mind and consuming GOOD, healthy media such as philosophy, high art, classical music, art films, quality literature, the teachings of Jesus, the Vedic scriptures, etc. This does not mean, however, that one does not ever pray and meditate. To be get strong, one must rest one's muscles, just as one must rest in union with the divine to get spiritually strong.

 No.172082

Movies, games, porn, the people behind these know exactly how to 'push our buttons'. I suppose it's all based on research of how humans function. Such things like the color design on social media websites is a tip of the iceberg I guess. It's so dangerous it scares me. People are not aware of it at all. The greed rules the world, things have been put in motion, and I don't know if it all can be stopped.
Cheer me up wizbros, for I see our future grim.

 No.172084

>>172081
Health, fitness and spirituality have already been commodified by modern capitalism. Special snowflakes like you are just another market ruled by supply and demand. You can go shop at your favorite organic wholefoods fat-free gluten-free shop that promotes minorities or you could buy leather editions of Plato's collected works to show people you're an intellectual or you can go and engage in artificial physical exercises, not because of vanity but because you might get called into war or to defend your plot of land from bandits, right?

You're just another brain-dead consumer like the rest of us, buddy. It's just that your flavor of shit has sprinkles on it and a fag rainbow.

 No.172085

>>172081
You become spiritually strong by pushing your mind to it's limits, whether it be visualization, exploration of philosophy, internal debates, mathemagics, memory manipulation, mastery over emotions and whatever else you can imagine. It is the very opposite of solidifying your enslavement to false gods.

 No.172086

Yes, any activity that you are merely watching passively without any input is wasteful imo. Unless you are utterly destroyed physically and can't move or can't get out of your room by some weather catastrophe the human body is meant to be active..

Another reason is that anime is made for Japanese children, not 30+ wizards

 No.172087

>>172086
merely consuming anime is stage 1

 No.172092

>>172084
Well said. I wonder what that kind of poster is still doing here honestly. Take your own goddamn advice and go read the bible in a mud hut or something. Who the fuck takes that internet ascetic role playing seriously anyway? It's like an idiot's idea of what an ideal virtuous man is. It reeks of affectation and phoniness.

 No.172095

Wizchad 2020 just fucking ban all us no wizchad then

 No.172096

>>172084
>>172092
Even if he isn't exactly pratice-what-you-preach type, at least he's got a point. None of us are perfect, but some are trying to be.

Wizardry is an art, not a submission to your urges and comfort zone.

 No.172098

>>172096
> Wizardry is an art, not a submission to your urges and comfort zone.
No, I’m a wizard precisely because it’s my comfort zone.

 No.172099

>>172096
>Wizardry is an art, not a submission to your urges and comfort zone.
Who gives a shit? I have more respect for an honest poster who speaks of binge watching anime in his underwear while sipping beer than for the holier-than-thou showoffs like that "spiritual lifting" (!) guy. The latter is a lot more pathetic in my opinion. If they were for real they wouldn't feel the need to preach to begin with, but the whole point here is to have something to feel superior about. This is what makes the infamous monk larpers especially insufferable.

 No.172101

>>172099
Well you are not going to hear about the non-preachy truwizards are you then? Because guess what, they not on the board!
Your argument is redundant and fallacious

 No.172102

>>172096
>Wizardry is an art, not a submission to your urges and comfort zone.
Yes, this is what i'm trying to tell them! I'm glad i have some support for this.
Stop cranking your junk and acting like this is some comfy paradigm, it is weakness!
They talk about our dishonesty, but what about theirs??

 No.172103

>>172101
Yes and that is good. The less moralistic sermons I have to deal with from hypocrites with an overinflated ego the better.

>>172102
Thank goodness you're here mister messiah. Please enlighten us some more, we're deeply in need of your grandiloquent platitudes.

 No.172211

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>>172084
BIG NO i consume real art unlike most beings on this planet who consume worthless trash.

 No.172212

>>172211
Is that so? Name 5 (five) real art.

 No.172213

>>172212
Does it even matter what he says? It's just going to be a list he considers it real art and you'll say it's garbage like everything else.

 No.172214

>>172213
He should put in a little more effort into his elitism. Namedropping a couple classics is the least he can do, not just some abstract category of "real art".

And so what if I call it garbage? Because these midwits are incapable of writing a paragraph or two justifying their own views and values?

 No.172221

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>>172212
FILM
Tarkovsky - Bresson - Tarr - Mizoguchi - Ozu - Resnais - Pasolini - Bergman - Dreyer - Brakhage - Rivette - Duras - Akerman - Straub/Huilett - Antonioni - Reis/Cordeiro - Godard - Bartas - Yoshida - Eustache - Teshigahara - Snow - Marker - Kirsanoff - Fassbinder - Benning - Monteiro - Sokurov - Paradjanov - Vigo - Deren - Ray - Debord - Mekas - Oliveira - Weerasethakul - etc.

MUSIC
Bach - Webern - Scelsi - Josquin - Monteverdi - Beethoven - Debussy - Schönberg - Dufay - Coltrane - Feldman - Schütz - Holliger - Xenakis - Allegri - Fabre-Garrus - Busnois - Cavalli - Frescobaldi - Brahms - Marais - Carter - Clemmens - Zimmermann - Brumel - Weinberg - Schein - Sainte-Colombe - Denisov - Kurtag - Tallis - Brown - Hildegard - Rosetto - Schubert - etc.

LITERATURE
Dostoyevsky - Beckett - Kafka - Proust - Joyce - Pynchon - Musil - Tolstoy - Alighieri - Sophocles - Faulkner - Shakespeare - Bernhard - Céline - Woolf - Rimbaud- Pessoa - Borges - Montaigne - Rilke - Sterne - Milton - Melville - Homer - Nabokov - Cervantes Saavedra - Goethe - Wallace - etc.

 No.172222

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>>172212
I also enjoy some anime and manga

 No.172223

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>>172221
None of that is any more "real art" than something like pic related. Unless you can explain what objective "good" is. Protip: no one has ever managed to in thousands of years.

 No.172224

>>172223
Well they at the very least took more effort to make than that.

 No.172225

>>171826
if everything is a waste of time then nothing is

 No.172226

>>172223
Objective proof doesn't exist for anything at all, it's just a vague term that anyone can use against anything they feel like it. Even in logic where the concept of proof can be properly used, it's only as good as the premisses you started with. Besides, there has been a lot of philosophical works that are the foundation of what art is, the idea that anything can be art is just an offshoot of the established concepts, it doesn't make it invalid, on the contrary, contemporary art is the child of those very same ideas. The problem here is that you're looking for poker rules in a tennis match, you don't even know what the game is. I would start with Poetics by Aristotle if I were you. Good luck.

 No.172227

>>172223
>People disagreeing proves anything
You are missing that millions of people are objectively stupid

 No.172228

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>>172226
>word games to deflect
Nice cope, except no one has fallen for it. Post the objective "realness" of the art you listed. There is a reason modern art has landed where it has, no one can argue against it. You pretend to have read philosophy, yet clearly have not or else you would realize why I say what I do. The idea of the objective or absolute truth is dead and gone.

 No.172229

>>172228
Well said relativism is just a loop for enjoymentfags and FEELS fags who can't justify why they like a certain piece of art that is poorly made or poorly written.

 No.172230

>>172228
I'm not the one who posted those lists, I wouldn't waste time doing it to be honest.
>There is a reason modern art has landed where it has, no one can argue against it.
No one with half a brain would care to because it's not the point. Art doesn't have arguments, this is just you looking for poker rules on a tennis match again. It's the second time you do it as well, so I guess I'm done here. You can find Poetics for free online, it's public domain.

 No.172231

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>>172230
I believe that literature is an objective art form.
If you read the Titans of literature like Don Quixote, War and Peace, Crime and Punishment, The Odyssey and The Iliad, Moby Dick, and other western literary canon works and come away thinking they were not good or enjoyable, that’s not an opinion but a factually incorrect belief and you need to go back and read them again or just they aint your type of thing.

 No.172232

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>>172230
Besides acting smug do you have a single point to make? I've read every philosopher you are going to tell me to read, It's not an argument. If you don't have a point to make I will accept your concession of defeat.

 No.172233

>>172229
>enjoymentfags
Whats next? Beingalivefags?

 No.172234

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>>172221
I can't see the difference between someone consuming pop culture and anything on your list, except the latter is critically acclaimed by some higher authority and popular in upper-class educated circles. I guess it's only "real art" if you can namedrop it or quote it in a conversation and pretend people think you're a sophisticated intellectual.

You're just "high brow" consumers, the kind that's picky but still has an identity that revolves entirely around their consumption. Don't pretend like any of this "art" serves anything more than to signal to others your higher status, not unlike someone buying a 400$ Kanye t-shirt or a new sports car.

 No.172235

>>172234
New things are popular because they are new. Old things are popular because they have a reputation, which is usually built on merit (but not always).

 No.172236

>>172234
Bullshit. Do you think that mesopotamians "consumed" stories about Gilgamesh? They didn't because their culture predates modern capitalism. You're just projecting your braindead consumerism onto everyone else.
It's like people who say that renaissance art only existed because of patronage, so Michelangelo is equivalent to whatever corporations want to shove down our throats. Naive materialism.

 No.172237

>>172231
I like reading but find most classics boring, I like trashy pulp stuff. Lovecraft is good though.

 No.172238

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>>172234
You got to be a laughable brainlet to think mentioned artists and works are comparable to mainstream schlock entertainment junk food

Please don't insult our intelligence

 No.172239

>>172236
What are you trying to say? Stories back then were consumed as entertainment, carried mostly by oral tradition. They didn't have Spider-man, they had Achilles and Odysseus. They were the equivalent of pop culture today and everyone knew about them.

Still, "art" has always been used by the elites as a status symbol. Knowing how to read or play an instrument was what set you apart from the regular pleb that didn't have statues and mosaics in their house. It's what made you sophisticated and gave you a moral high ground.

Today, you have the modern pleb, consuming all the right films, literature and music, so that he can emulate a higher class lifestyle, drinking fine wines, going to the opera and reading Ulysses before bed, on the surface high culture but economically still a pleb.

>>172238
>our intelligence

Ah, of course. Along with your high brow media list, please submit your Mensa membership card so that we may finally confirm that we are dealing with a real intellectual. I heard you once heard a pop song in a supermarket and wanted to vomit before you calmed yourself in your car while playing a Bach CD.

 No.172240

>>172239
>What are you trying to say?
That one can make analogies between material conditions behind pieces of art all day without ever talking about art itself.

 No.172241

>>172239
Shit taste is what dominates modern consumers

Yeah I know what you mean, it's the reason the industry lacks substance and creativity, it's very formulaic for the most part, sticking to conventions to appeal to the masses. Really wish we could have more high art every year or more high art films and real lit, but unfortunately I haven't found anything on the same level.

It's also pretty hard to find media fans who don't like action fast food escapism fake suspense cheap thrillers and works that depend on shock factor or moeshit and are into real art and music

At its best, mainstream lit may challenge some thought, but by design, it would challenge the typical level of thought of a teenager. At its worst (see Twilight and the other supernatural romances that have popped up) they simply target the emotional instability of the typical teenager, with no real content. There is nothing -actually- wrong with enjoying mainstream fiction, but the problem lies in pretending that mainstream fiction is more than it is. It's even that it can't be well written, but it can't deal with fully adult concepts, because the target audience isn't fully adult.

Again, the problem lies not in enjoying mainstream trash fiction- it has its place both for pleb readersreaders and as easy reads/escapism for an older crowd. But there is no real comparison in emotional or thematic depth, or quality of writing between, say, Faulkner and Joyce, and Suzanne Collins and J.K. Rowling.

You're also allowed to enjoy eating junk food, or fast food, but don't tell me that it's the same quality as something cooked at a 5-star restaurant.

It's the same reason why the average reader seems entranced by Game of Thrones, while people who are well read aren't as taken by it. You see the same or worse depravity throughout a significant amount of literature (and real history) but for a crowd that has read little but YA fiction, this is some sort of breakthrough.

 No.172258

>>172231
>objective fact
You haven't read one of those, am I right?

 No.172268

>>171810
I don't see how you can argue that consuming media is a waste of time in the same breath as arguing that producing media is not.
If listening to music is worthless junk, why is it any better for you to make music? You're just adding even more "worthless junk" to the pile for other people to waste their time with.
It's contradictory nonsense to say it's a good use of time to produce something that nobody should ever use.

 No.172299

>>172221
Never heard of these people

 No.172370

>wasting your life
you can not not waste your life
whatever you do, in the end you will wish you did it the other way round

this is an integral malfunction in the human nature. the desires are always infinite and no matter how good you have it, you will always want more or better

 No.172384

>>171810
Consuming media is entertaining. Creating things and learning is not entertaining. I do not live my life to be "productive", I live it to enjoy it while not intruding on anyone else.

 No.172436

>>172384
>Creating things and learning is not entertaining.
It can be, if you are not doing it to be a better slave but to fulfill your own goals and desires for yourself.
The best (not from a technical quality point of view, of course) media in my opinion is that which is created by the author for consumption by the author or group of mutual interest. If it is acknowledged by others that is great, sure, bur media that is specifically targeted at some market is bound to be a watered down compromise.
Media really is just a great tool to patch things that you are missing into this broken mess of a reality.

 No.172447

>>172223
Didn't that one guy end up eating that million dollar banana?

 No.172448

>>172299
Why would you admit to that?

 No.172449

>>172448
Cause he’s not trying impress anonymous posters on the internet with his pseudo intellectualism?

 No.172450

>>172449
It's more like he's taking a stand for something. I find hard to believe anyone using an imageboard never heard of Beethoven and Shakespeare, even if you're 10 years old or something.

 No.172451

>>172221
>>172222
naruto and dragonball have better and 10 times higher volume of music than ashita no joe, Oshii's movies and other art anime you listed, I don't see why you're so opposed to enjoying things widely loved by both retards and smart people. Those manga you have are mostly just rape/relationships with succs and in your face sexuality. Dude wtf Paradjanov, are you fucking for real
here? I watched his one movie because it was included in the literature exams, and it was the most boring dull garbage shot on a 5 dollar budget, and a pointless adaptation. I don't see how can you ever argue for soviet movies other than come and see for rape of nanking enjoyers. Classical music? Any given 1000 modern artists on spotify are more fun to listen to and have more artistic substance than those randoms. Don't have anything to say about literature, but infinite jest is infinitely inferior entertainment and art to 07th expansion works, so there's no point in forcing yourself to read that garbage written for rich people.
>>172299
well, you're sentient

 No.172453

>>172451
>I don't see why you're so opposed to enjoying things widely loved by both retards and smart people.
Because the kind of person who responds to "name 5 artists" with a random hash of 70 namedrops with zero internal structure beyond containing a bunch of artists he thinks are obscure and difficult but also well-known enough that people will think he's smart for consuming them is the kind of person who has built his entire identity around being an Intellectual Consumer. He uses his media consumption to derive self-worth, not to have fun. Enjoyment is completely irrelevant, and probably actually detrimental since enjoying something is a bad sign that it's probably not complicated enough to make him feel smart.

I think the other side of this thread is generally going a bit too far, though. There are reasons other than pretentiousness to watch things which aren't just good mindless fun. "Art" media is still media, it does offer a genuinely different experience than you can get from more popular-oriented "entertainment" media, and there's nothing wrong with consuming it if you enjoy what it offers. I think this kneejerk reaction of "anything I personally find boring or pretentious is literally impossible to like so everybody must be faking it" comes out of insecurity from people who don't enjoy the stuff you get points for enjoying.
It's like that one guy who shows up every time there's an alcohol discussion; every time there's somebody who thinks beer or whisky or whatever is gross and has therefore decided that nobody could possibly like it since they don't and all of society for the last 4000 years has just been pretending to look manly. Whenever there's a value judgement in different tastes, people who don't enjoy the "good" stuff get defensive.

 No.172454

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>>172451
Updated anime and manga favorites.

 No.172456

>>172451
1. Nice bait m8.
2. Only boring if you think fast pacing is more important than proper plot and character writing.
3. Boring is a completely subjective point based on the individual, not something that can be attributed to any objective scale of value beyond personal enjoyment. In other words, not a good point of criticism for fiction.

and just because something is slow does not mean that it had horrible pacing. Horrible pacing would be something like fillers and expositions that do not have any meaning within the story. the good stuff i mentioned as such Texhnolyze and the works of Tarkovsky did neither of those. It isn't redundant, as every episode had a meaning to the overall plot, there were no fillers, and there was no meaningless symbolism or imagery throughout.in the GOAT of anime Texhnolyze Every faction was explored, from the members of the rakan to the organo to the salvation union's ideals. This made the payoff all the more satisfying. Do you want a story where the universe is not thoroughly explored? Do you want a universe where the characters are not thoroughly explored? No? Well, don't complain about art films and anime reasonable pacing.

 No.172457

> … reading books … should not the one focus instead on … learning skills instead of mindlessly consuming media and escapism?

Where is the line between consuming and not consuming. If I read a book learning about topic, skill I'm interested in, but which I won't do/create anything with practically, or if I don't have any practical goal in mind, is it consuming or not?

Another question. Is it worth trying to create, even if you have no passion for it? (e.g. to learn making music or drawing) Can you grow this creativity muscle by trying to do/practice creative things?

 No.172459

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>>172456
>A Texhnolyze fanboy.
>No LOGH in his top tier anime list.

I mean its by no means a bad series with that said, it is a difficult to watch series. I was personally bored while watching it, which is not the same as disliking it, but it definitely gives you plenty of excuses for giving up on it.

 No.172460

>>172459
Hmmmm… so a 22 episode series with an intriguing goal to reach at the end of it's run is more boring than a 110 episode series with nothing but boring dialogue and dated animation to boot (even for it's time). Very interesting.

 No.172461

>>172459
The first fourth of the story is made to be as incomprehensible as possible. The characters talk little to no-at-all, exposition of what is going on is minimal though.

 No.172463

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>>172461
Just because exposition is minimal does not make it a bad series. Not every series has to hold your hand or something. Plus, it makes the payoff all the more better. It is at least better than having countless amounts of expositions and info dumps until the viewer becomes extremely nauseated from those. Also, it demands attention. The central villain's motives during the first half of the story are clearly explained, and his objectives are as well. They explore the world deeply and thoroughly, and it's actually more straightforward than Lain for example.

 No.172535

>>172436
Only if your goals and desires (if any) surround creation. I find it boring, time-consuming and difficult. The assessment of the best media being designated for an isolated niche is accurate, however.

 No.173373

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living is the biggest waste of time of them all

 No.173410

>>172231
I've read the Iliad and it was just badly written. Period. The same descriptions and the same choice of words used all over again, plot was nothing extraordinary, characters were boring and unlikable, the point of the thing was essentially "don't whine and just be a good soldier bro". Not to mention the ending, what the fuck kind of ending was that? Where is the conquest of Troy itself, Homer? What the hell, I can shit out better endings than that.

>>172237
This! Trashy stuff is where it is at. I would take a Stephen King novel over some boring but widely-acknowledged classic any fucking day of the week.

 No.173413

>>173410
Chickenhead confirmed.

 No.175258

>>171810
Eventually, you'll get bored as fuck. Unless you watch porn all day. That's when you make stuff.

 No.175259

>>172221
Do you not think that the artists today will be revered by people like you in the future? I'm familiar with the "greats" and debussy is based but only focusing on these as "real" art and saying that contemporary art is penis vagina vulgarity is ignorant. There are so many more mediums and artists than you know.

 No.175269

This is such a fucking tiresome take. You know how I know anyone who ever says this shit doesn't actually believe it? They go online every day to self-righteously brag about their big boy plan of abstaining from all "consooming". That somehow sitting in the corner and watching paint dry is the answer to their problems or that they're gonna become some artistic virtuoso overnight by doing nothing all day. You wouldn't be so insecure that you feel a need to come here and present the idea to others online if this was actually the way you lived and not some stupid lifestyle branding that's just another way to say something about yourself as a consumer.

 No.175372

You know, I'm beginning to realize that everything is a big waste of time by some numbskull's standard. Do whatever the fuck you want with your spare time. We all have at least heard of Ben Franklin, right? Maybe read his autobiography? But no one's heard of nor cared about the drunkards he worked with at the printing shop in London for at least 200 years. They thought they were a big deal and called him the "water American". Look who's laughing now. In all likelihood, you and everything you did won't be remembered 3+ generations down the line whether you watched anime or played the clarinet badly. Just don't go full nihilist and squander your life. Keep the money flowing in and take care of yourself you fat fuck. Don't go around strangling people in back alleys. You'll only end up homeless, dead, or in prison respectively. Prison - now there's a waste of time. If you think harmlessly consooming is bad, put yourself in Richard Kuklinski's position - contract killing cost him his final decades on this planet, God rest his soul. Understand?

 No.175381

>>175269
excellent post

 No.175382

>>175269
most of those are crab poltards that have all the social resentment that communists crabs have but frame it as some self righteous tradcuck religious moral cause instead even though they spend all day on porno and anime ibs telling people what to do with their money and time. They are just seething commies hating anyone with more leisure time, disposable income/neetbux or less care about wagecucking than them

I notice a lot of those poltards come from rural shitholes and romanticize rural lifestyle, when i lived in the countryside i saw how people had to tear down several family home's walls to remove a dead person because they were so fat and were such hoarders of junk that there was no possible way to get their dead bodies out of their homes except with cranes and shit like that. when i read all those normalchan wojak memes i see nothing but projection and cope from fat hicks and wageslaves.

 No.175383

>>175382
Are you even capable of talking without buzzwords?

 No.175407

>>175382
>that entire second paragraph
believe it or not theres a world that exists outside of america.

 No.175482

>>175269
All of the *ooom type memes are retarded oversimplifications designed to shut down individual thought in order top adapt to a meme take.

 No.175486

>>172231
Correct. I assert Art is objective, it just doesn't seem that way sometimes because of the individual variances between people and the fact that humans aren't capable of defining every variable in the system of art to be able to measure a piece of Art's "goodness."
There is a tendency to call things that humans just aren't capable of understanding "non-existent" or "subjective", which is just retarded. Different people have different opinions on the best food for example, but there is still a tendency to think shit sandwiches aren't as good as turkey ones. If there is a massive tendency in humans to prefer one thing over another then that is the objective good, and the individual environmental effects that cause someone to break away from the average are part of a persons subjective component. If someone grows up eating raw maggot cheese they might develop a taste for it, but that is part of the learned subjective component. If they were a natural blank slate so to speak, they would align much more closely with what we'd call "objectively good" taste it food.
And imagine if schools and colleges intentionally and carefully associated terrible tasting food with good feelings. They only let popular kids eat maggot cheese in school, called those who didn't creepy weirdos, and in college mass indoctrinated people into believing maggot cheese is the highest culinary form. People would believe it and assume that the flavour must be entirely subjective because in the past it would be thought of as disgusting. This is the modern world and Art.
>>173410
Literature equivalent of someone who consumes junk food. Junk food doesn't taste better, it just has the highest goodness for the lowest effort. It isn't bad but it isn't good.
I loved the Iliad. Not including the sacking of Troy is because the book is actually not about taking Troy, it's about Achilles' selfish rage and tragedies of war. The jarring ending is intentional. Instead of a glorious "And now we crush our enemies and WIN!" you see Hector kissing his wife goodbye, loving his child, and then leaving to get literally betrayed by the Gods and slain by Achilles. Then you see Achilles' worthless rage result in nothing but the eventual burial of his supposed "hated" enemy.

 No.175595

>>171915
>If you 'truly' hated the world or were depressed you would kill yourself, you wouldn't feel the need to make it known to all

>implying killing yourself is easy


Fuck off back to facebook and instashit you absolute normgroid, even many normalfags are more enlightened than you when it comes to this.

 No.175598

>>172447
now _that's_ art

 No.175699

>>171844
Exactly, that's why neoliberalism and individualism are so devastating. This political philosophy is going to destroy the civilisation. The conclusions you made in your post are valid and derived from neoliberal individualism. I bet it is the side effect capitalist owners did not think about it when they were creating this philosophy.

 No.175701

>>171810
Expanding your own assests of power is the only worthwhile use of time. It's the only thing that improves your own agency and until you can comfortably know that you can face other active agents of the world without being utterly humiliated, you shouldn't waste time on other things.

 No.175702

>>172241
Challenging thoughts, substance, creativity,quality. All vague meaningless terms. Can you art fags actually elaborate on what separate muh art and other entertainments? The way you always talk about art make it sound like some kind of mumbo jumbo magic crap that I would mistake you for a new age guru who think that reading dostoevsky will make him reach nirvana or something. Maybe I am a plebeian but I don't see anything "higher" about art.

The way I understand it, the only thing "real art' has over "lower form of entertainment" is that the former touch on concept and feelings that are subtler, usually difficult to grasp and requires a deeper thinking and reflection on oneself than the kind of thinking one do in their daily lives. That's it. It's just a form of pleasure that is more valuable because it's less common. It stimulates part of your brain that isn't usually stimulated therefore it's special. When you think about it the activity of pursuing uncommon mental sensations for pleasure is highly decadent. I just don't see it. This magical art that is supposed to give life meaning, change my life, makes me in touch with the universe, cure cancer or whatever you people claim it to do.

 No.175709

>>175702
On the most general level, art is simply human expression. I think the only difference between so-called "real art" and "lower form of entertainment" is simply that the former puts emphasis on masterful use of its particular tools of expression and unique, novel ways of expression, at the cost of accessibility. The latter mostly just cares about sales.

Consider something like Marcel Proust's "A la recherche du temps perdu" which is long and tedious, but it features masterful use of the French language as well as a novel, unique expression of a certain kind of lifestyle. Is this better than reading Harry Potter? No, it's just written for different purposes. Harry Potter was designed to be easy to read and to be entertaining, to sell to a wide market. It features simple language and familiar ideas, attempting something different would make it much less successful.

Pseudo-intellectuals like to use so-called "higher" art like poor people use expensive iPhones and gold chains to pretend they're part of a higher social class. One can easily go from binging a Netflix series to reading a "high-brow" novel and then go back to watching Rick & Morty without any problem.

 No.176396

>>175702
The way I see it, the point of art is simply to convey human experiences i.e. sensations, lessons etc. Because one person's experiences are of course very limited, art allows one to briefly see what other experiences are like. This is why art that makes one think differently or does something new and unexpected may be seen as more valuable, because it expands the experiences. Whereas watching the same old capeshit film with a predictable plot adds nothing really new to one's life. Of course if you don't want to experience new things, and enjoy doing the same old things repeatedly, then it makes sense to not care about the quality of art you consoom.

 No.176400

Honestly, OP? I don't think so. I've gotten alot out of the media i've consumed. For example, all of the story/dialogue heavy games/Visual novels I played when I was younger probably contributed to why I was so far above all my peers. By listening to alot of music, you can intuite music theory. By reading stories, you can be exposed to new ideas and philophies.

You can learn/take alot from books/movies/games ect, you just have to be consuming the right media.

Escapism is also important for coping in this world. If you aren't coping, it's harder to create or learn new things. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 No.176402

>>171810
Unless you buy into some idea of transcendence there is no meaning to "wasted time". If you do, the only actual purposeful activity is the one that brings you closer to transcendence. Media may be used in this sense for catharsis, that is, the purification of your emotions through the resolution of the narrative.

 No.176450

>is consuming media the single biggest waste of one's time? watching tv shows, movies and anime, playing video games VN, listening to music, reading books and manga, is it all worthless junk?
No. That would be watching the news and normie gossip. At least a Moe Anime makes you feel content instead of being stressed out by the news. Consuming narratives that reinforce the System are put on a pedestal for a reason.

 No.176451

>>176450
The news might have a tornado warning. Both are fictional but one might have some grain of truth and usefulness to it.

 No.176452

>>176451
You can check the weather and your trade/professional outlets for that. But the "big N" News… It's infotainment at best. It is an endless stream of nothing, that will be forgotten by most people and never acted upon on.

 No.176485

The two basic things in life are surviving and reproducing

Anything else is a "bonus"

 No.176486

I've spent the majority of the last 15 years flitting from thread to thread with barely any involvement, never really learning anything. Barely making any connections.
I've rarely if ever watched anything I really enjoy and now I can't do it at all.

I envy people who say they spend their days consuming media. Besides the actual enjoyment, they end up picking up things from media whether they're intending to or not. Even if what they're consuming is garbage, they still absorb various facts and culturally relevant info from it and have some topic to discuss about which they're at least passably knowledgeable.
It sounds so much more edifying than the life I've lived which feels like barely a step or two above locked-in syndrome.

 No.176488

>>176485
You completely ignore the fact of evolution.

>>176486
Change your life. Now. Never too late. Imageboards are just as cancerous as real life communications can be. Reduce the time you spend on chans and watch some movies. It isn't that hard.

 No.176537

>>171810

learning skills for what?

 No.176540

In the end yes its a waste of time i wasted the last 6 years of my life doing nothing in my room i feel like my life its over

 No.176589

I've consumed a lot of japanese media. Now i'm able to listen and read japanese.

 No.176599

>>176488
Are you the same asshole who keeps bringing up this "evolution" bullshit on /dep/? Can you take your own advice and fuck off already?

 No.176632

>>176599
I don't know, I'm pro-life and pro-social darwinism so you could be describing me.

 No.177189

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 No.177190

>>177189
dumb tranny


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