/wiz/ - Wizardry

>Why do lusty people tend to be kinder and loving, whereas puritrons tend to be bitter and hateful?
Scientifically speaking, here are the medically known side effects of masturbation and porn-watching:
- Zero.

A lusty virgin loser is a virgin loser all the same, as far society is concerned anyway.

You garbage genetics will sexually repress you way harder than any puritanical morality ever will

resent

>>174461
>Why do lusty people tend to be kinder and loving, whereas puritrons tend to be bitter and hateful?
Because being kind and loving (or pretending to be) is a good, socially-acceptable way to acquire sex. Most puritans either don't care about sex, in which case they don't have to pretend to be kind and loving, or view it as something sinful, in which case they become neurotic and bitter from denying themselves a basic need.

Ok this is another anti nofap thread,so as i have wisdom about this subject :

This thread feels like u are trying to supress the insecurities you have about nofap.








Superpowers r real.

when I first was exposed to high volumes of porn I was very emotionally distressed. I'd walk around for an hour outside feeling brain fog and confusion, like I wanted to scream. This stuff is awful for you, hormonal dysregulation can ruin your life.

>>174464
You don't understand what sexual repression means. It isn't being in a state where you don't or can't get sex but rather trying to kill all your sexual impulses and looking on sexuality is a necessarily evil thing.

Puritan morality is harmful and wrong… Just jerk off and be done with it. This topic gets way more talk than it deserves.

>>174461
Pent-up sexual frustration, op. It isn't an especially difficult thing to guess. Wannabe monks/ascetics and prude succubi are the most passive-aggressive kind of people.

>Why do lusty people tend to be kinder and loving
Those people, in a predominantly Christian upbringing, would've been kind and loving, even without masturbation. The fact is, if a person is well-adjusted and is having their basic needs met (e.g. loved by their parents, has a good place in the community and some friends, etc.) then yes, even without masturbation, they'd be generally happy.
I imagine Puritans are bitter and hateful, not because they can't masturbate but because so much of the normal, modern world casually offends their values and sensibilities. Casually, mind you.

Rationally speaking, if a person is a masturbator, you can expect that they are unwilling to practise self-denial on their desires. Someone that refuses to compromise on their desires, no matter how nice they may seem on the surface, most certainly has a certain cruelness to them. When people prioritise their desires, their sense of charity absolutely diminishes for they hate all things that oppose their desires.
Consider: Whilst there are several intellectuals who discuss the question of abortion and whether life in the womb is truly human, how many people, with no proper research into the topic, just assume that fetuses aren't human simply because that's a convenient assumption for them? These people were seriously presented with the possibility that they are killing real people just so they can have their orgasmic high and they dismissed it simply because it was inconvenient. (Disclaimer: I'm not saying abortion is wrong, I'm saying a lot of people haven't seriously considered the question because the truth could be inconvenient)

If you have a pre-existing mental illness, you will feel depressed, anxious, lethargic, abulic, etc., no matter whether you jerk it or not but if you don't jerk it, if you practise self-denial in this one area, it will give you a nugget of self-confidence as you know that you are indeed capable of self-control. You'll have a piece of the self-esteem and sense of control that's so vital to those who are ill and who's lives have fallen into a dilapidated state. If a man is drowning in the ocean, a couple planks of wood is no raft but it's better than nothing.

>>174472
I’d still rather have a puritanical society where no one gets to have sex. The harm of hating myself over the sexual instinct would be negligible.

>>174473
>The fact is, if a person is well-adjusted and is having their basic needs met (e.g. loved by their parents, has a good place in the community and some friends, etc.)
Sexuality is more of a basic need than having friends or being respected by your community.

Also, puritan bitterness and hatefulness isn't a new thing. It was already a thing when the majority was christian back then. It has nothing to do with the modern world. Or you can look at muslims too. Rape and violence has always been a part of muslim culture and islam tries to hide succubi from the eyes of men as much as possible.

>Rationally speaking, if a person is a masturbator, you can expect that they are unwilling to practise self-denial on their desires. Someone that refuses to compromise on their desires, no matter how nice they may seem on the surface, most certainly has a certain cruelness to them. When people prioritise their desires, their sense of charity absolutely diminishes for they hate all things that oppose their desires.
One of the stupidest things I've ever read here, thanks. Cruelness and masturbation have no relation to each other whatsoever. In fact, cruelness is often the fruit of repressed desires/self-denial. Bitterness that comes from the fact that you can't have something or society teaches you that you shouldn't want something you feel natural.
We can look at medieval and even modern nuns and monks and see what is the result of the constant self-denial often: hysterics, mental instability, seeing the devil in everyone and everything, emotional outbursts, etc. Why is it that monks and nuns had vision the most often? Surely not have to do with the fact that they lived in a suffocating atmosphere that prohibited everything enjoyable, fun and natural as under the accusation of selfishness or it being evil. Why did they commit self-harm regularly? Why did they throw themselves into thorny bushes? Why did they act like goats or other animals?
Face it: sexual repression only results in creating crazy, unstable people or downright sociopaths and serial killers.

>>174474
Great idea! Let's take away the most precious thing from normalfags! I'm sure they will change for the better if they can't fuck freely without social stigma! They might even get back to the good old hobby of society that is bullying and torturing outsiders and creepy loners for fun.

>>174475
>Sexuality is more of a basic need than having friends or being respected by your community.
wizchan 2020

>>174475
Why do atheist virgins have such a burning hatred for puritanism and religious restrictions? Srs

We’re already restricted by our autism and ugliness, religion is practically a non problem for us.

Sure normals may target us if they didn’t have sex to keep them entertained, but you types still seem to hate puritanism on a far more personal level.

Btw were you the guy arguing for abortion on 4chan a while back?

Internet is full of rape porn addicted drug addicts who are angry like steroid munchers. Porn and sex is so addictive and destructive normans empty their bank accounts, destroy their careers, and destroy their families for.

It’s not good for you!

>>174477
>Why do atheist virgins have such a burning hatred for puritanism and religious restrictions?
It's not "atheists", but specifically hedonist atheist normalfags, who are possibly crab as well. They hate anyone who attempts to state their hedonistic ideals are wrong, this is because they worship basic pleasure in the same way the religious worship their gods. To attack their pleasures is to attack their religion, so naturally they are very defensive about it. They claim puritans are bitter yet very clearly the only people here that are bitter are these chronic masturbators themselves.

Although I must admit that recently because of reddit, the nofap bros have started to become rather insufferable. The idea of "superpowers" from not masturbating is just idiotic and these retards need to get a grip. It doesn't help that the esoteric fringe kiddies are also getting into it for the sublimation memes and other hindu/gnostic stuff. You can value puritan and celibate ideals without needing to use some poor excuse of magical powers from it.

Thanks for the advice, Krassenstein brothers.

>>174477
>Why do atheist virgins have such a burning hatred for puritanism and religious restrictions?
Because it's bullshit slave religion used to control the normies. If you personally reject hedonism for health and happiness good for you but don't behind religious dogma for justification.

>>174486
In 2020 hedonism is used more than religion for that purpose.

>>174461
>Why do lusty people tend to be kinder and loving
Low stress.
>whereas puritrons tend to be bitter and hateful?
Because you can't supress bodily needs without major consequences, unless you are some chad monk who who managed to master self control over his body.
>- Zero.
What about low t and loss of such minerals like zink, cumbrain?

>>174464
>as far society is concerned anyway.
Where do you think you are, reddit, facebook?
>You garbage genetics
Silence animal.
>will sexually repress you way harder than any puritanical morality ever will
Only if you are animal who thinks with instincts.

>>174475
>Sexuality is more of a basic need than having friends or being respected by your community.
Do you really believe this? Do you really believe that people would rather have unlimited sex and no friends or community than be perpetual virgins and have fellow virgin friends? Did you really think this through? Ironically, even Chads don't put sex this high on the pedestal.

>In fact, cruelness is often the fruit of repressed desires/self-denial. Bitterness that comes from the fact that you can't have something or society teaches you that you shouldn't want something you feel natural.
Firstly, Self-denial is volountary and therefore, is not interchangeable with being unable to have what one wants or being shamed for having for what one wants. To volountarily deny one's self is an empowering act.
Secondly, what of Chads and Stacies and the string of broken hearts and children they leave in their trail as they use people for their own purposes before discarding them as they move onto the next? Is this not cruelty? As a wizard, is it not cruelty when a succubus takes what she wants and divorces her faithful husband, taking their house and half his salary so she can enjoy hopping from one Chad to the next? What of the simple act of refusing to give money to the poor or setting a higher price than necessary simply out of selfishness?
Unrestrained desire is absolutely a source of cruelty.
If wizards adopt self-denial, they will be stronger. At the very least, this will enable them to be a bit more reliant on themselves, thereby easing their burden on others but perhaps it can even be the building block to them being so strong, they'll have an excess of strength that can then be shared with others.

Those who became nuns and monks did so volountarily. They chose to take those vows and live the monastic life. The extra restrictions, relative to the laity, that they took on was not because they saw more evil in the things the laity saw as normal but rather, they saw these things as obstructive to the perfection that they believed they were called to attain. The monks and nuns are a kind of "Spiritual Elite" if you will so this idea that they were forced to repress their desires to a greater extent than normal is bunk. This was their choice.
Also, have you considered widows? While the Catholic Church has always allowed re-marriage after the death of the previous spouse, people often didn't remarry after they lost their previous spouse and I'm sure you're aware, the Church is against sex outside of marriage. These widows were just as sexually inactive as the nuns and yet they were not experiencing anything abnormal.
And also, what of the vast multitude of nuns and monks that never had any such visions and never did the extreme behaviour you outlined and were simply, for the most part, forgotten by the history books? It's true that this behaviour was commonly committed by them but it's not true that they generally commit this behaviour. Some were clearly unique.
In conclusion: volountarily repressing one's sexual desires is not intrinsically harmful, can even be empowering and, by building self-control, is an antidote to cruelty.

after losing my libido completely i have become alot more hateful

>>174494
>people would rather have unlimited sex
masturbation and porn consumption are aspects of sexuality. this urge is so deep and primal i can't help it. it's not just having sex with people, so these things aren't even necessarily incompatible

>>174477
Because we don't need Daddy God to tell us what is good for us. We had society, the majority and authority figures telling us what to think our entire lives. Loners and outsiders like us naturally reject the dominion and laws of others, be they priests or even God himself. Just fuck off with your idealized religious society where no fun is allowed. Let people live their own lives.

>>174480
Everyone defends what makes them happy. Christian "wizards" advocate for a religious world because they - foolishly - think it would make them happy. You don't have to be a chronic masturbator to hate religion, not that there is anything wrong with being a degenerate chronic masturbator. Not everyone gets a boner from the idea that some old, moralfag, hypocrite monk and priest tells him how to live his life "correctly" and forbids anything enjoyable or fun from him on baseless, bullshit grounds.

>>174487
Hedonism isn't something collectivist in nature like religion so fuck off. Hedonism is subjective, not a hive-mind mentality like christianity.

>>174494
Yes, I do believe sexuality is a basic need while socialization is something inferior. And the facts prove me right. Even the loners or friendless people, weird people crave sexual satisfaction of some sort. You just have to look around: how many friendless people there are? Quite much. Now compare it to how many virgins there are: almost none except for us on this site. Sexuality is a biological urge like eating, sleeping and such. If you are a healthy young man or succubus then you feel the need for sexual satisfaction. This need overwhelms all reason, logic, morals and all that. Many catholic priests keep lovers on the side, it is quite an accepted thing.

Sexuality is a healthy and very important aspect of life, whether you admit it or not.

>self-denial
I was talking about forced self-denial, a thing which christians like to impose on everyone once they become a majority or get the power to do it. If you want to be a puritan then nobody cares, I disagree with it sure but go do it. However, don't force your bullshit on everyone. Wanting a world where puritan morals rule is idiotic. Maybe you have a low libido or whatever but healthy people need sexual pleasure. That is the way it is.
>Secondly, what of Chads and Stacies and the string of broken hearts and children they leave in their trail as they use people for their own purposes before discarding them as they move onto the next?
Their problem, I am content with masturbating in my room.
>As a wizard, is it not cruelty when a succubus takes what she wants and divorces her faithful husband, taking their house and half his salary so she can enjoy hopping from one Chad to the next?
Not really, the idiot should have known better than to go into marriage. Let the norms eat what they cooked.

>Unrestrained desire is a source of cruelty
Not really, depends on what you desire. If someone desires to help others than passion can be useful too. But there are more important things in this world than being useful or helping others. First we have to help ourselves.
>widows
Most widows who didn't remarry were old. Therefore low libido and all that.
>Those who became nuns and monks did so volountarily.
Liar, many succubi were forced to live as nuns against their will. Probably the same for some males too.
>In conclusion: volountarily repressing one's sexual desires is not intrinsically harmful, can even be empowering and, by building self-control, is an antidote to cruelty.
The problem is most people don't want to live a pathetic life like that. Christianity and asceticism demands you to give up everything you like. Fuck that. Not everyone is a masochist.

>>174498
Your entire life is already no fun allowed bro, religious limits on fun are relevant to normals and females only.
Fighting for sex positive feminism on the chans all day is prolly fun in its own way ofc

Anyway if sex is as important as you say, why aren’t you willing to blame the females who actually prevent you from having it?

>>174504
>Your entire life is already no fun allowed bro, religious limits on fun are relevant to normals and females only.
Wrong. Religious limits are pretty fucking relevant. Let's see what a puritan/neo-christian society would look like:
>no anime because it is "degenerate"
>no video games because of "violence"
>no rock and metal music because "satanic", unless it is about praising the lord ofc
>no porn
>no welfare of any kind (if you don't work you shall not eat)
>forced to socialize
>forced to work
>forced to have a family or become a monk/priest
>no art/entertainment and philosophy except if it passes by christian morals
Nah, fuck you too. Living in a puritan society really wouldn't be all that different from living in a muslim country.
I don't know if the idea of the christian wizard is a new meme or what but you have to be exceptionally stupid if you believe that christianity would improve our culture and society. We had this shit for the last 1000 years - We saw what crap it is capable of. Atheism and anti-christian sentiments became a thing a for logical reasons. Stop being a contrarian faggot and use your head a little.
>Fighting for sex positive feminism on the chans all day is prolly fun in its own way ofc
You don't have to a sex positive feminist to see the horrible thing that is puritanism and christianity. And again, you are being contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian. You don't actually consider what you are talking about.
>Anyway if sex is as important as you say, why aren’t you willing to blame the females who actually prevent you from having it?
Sex and sexuality are two different things, moron. Sexuality means masturbation too. I don't care about all the bullshit that is involved with the act of sex but I like to jerk off regularly. Because I know how retarded this asceticism/nofap meme is. Pent-up sexual frustration won't get you anything.

Having a craving for sex does not make it more important, the evolutionary environment didn’t need to create a craving for social interaction because it was normally there already. Just because people jerk themselves in to a coma because they’re addicted didn’t mean they wouldn’t be happier with friends etc.

>>174510
Having a craving for sexuality DOES make it more important than socialization.
>the evolutionary environment didn’t need to create a craving for social interaction because it was normally there already.
This is contradiction. Go think about it.
Let's take an average person. We offer him a million dollar or whatever valuable and ask him to either: don't have sex/don't masturbate for a month or to ignore others and avoid socialization as much as he can. He is free to choose between the two. You are deluded if you think anyone would choose the first.
This whole "bros before hoes" meme is a hypocrite lie that is generated by society. Sexuality always overrides the need to befriend people.

>>174509
Well i’d have no problem with a society that allows masturbation and sexuality but bans sex itself.

If sexuality is more than just sex then females could learn to enjoy their sexuality through fapping, just like you basically.

If you think that’s repressive then you should worry about your own sexless life first.

There‘s nothing wrong with banning them from sex either, they’ve already forced you into perma virginity, and you seem all the happier for it.

>>174509
I'm not a christian but your list is just absurd. Are your breeders Christian or something wiz? It is clear that religion is a very emotional topic for you, you seem very bitter in general about it. Anyways, most of you list seems to only focus on Christianity rather than the OP topic of puritan values anyways, it would immediately fall apart if you were to only look at a puritan society rather than a "neo christian" one. I shall address it from a Christian view since it would be unfair to you otherwise.

>no anime
You mean no ecchi, lewd, or pure edge anime
>no video games?
You mean no ecchi, lewd, or pure edge video games
>no rock or metal
You mean no non-puritan lyrics or vocal styles.
>no porn
Obviously.
>no welfare
What? You do know that it is mostly Christians who work at food kitchens for the homeless right? Socialism and utilitarianism is secular Christianity as it is anyways. I think you confuse WASP values with that of Christians in general. Also mistaking technological progress making things easy enough for welfare to exist, when during the past in popular christian times it was obvious such a thing as welfare could not exist.
>Forced to socialize
What? Just absurd.
>Forced to work
Same point as welfare.
>Forced to have a family or be a monk
Same point as socialize.
>no art/entertainment
Purely delusional at this point, all of western art originates from churches and the religious. Hell Christians are the only reason you can even read Plato and Aristotle to this very day. Modern western musical scales, paintings, writings, all of it is from Christians. Pretending otherwise is just petty bias against Christianity.

>>174516
>I think you confuse WASP values with that of Christians in general.
This is every /r/AAAAAAAAAAATHEIST ever.
Just give up trying to argue with these guys. Their dogmatic beliefs are built on literal reddit comics and memes made by 12 year old children.

>>174461
How would you know if someone is lustful or not?
While I dont jerk it or watch porn, most people do (I think 80% of men and 40% of succubi, although maybe the succubus one is wrong but who cares) and everyone I meet is an asshole to me or someone I know (inb4 "how would you know if they're lustful?" Because they act pretty basic and most normal people watch porn), I dont know where you're getting the idea that the hedonistic are nicer than puritans (although I dont know your life personally so maybe a lot of hedonists are nicer to you than puritans)
Also there are some known effects of porn watching which is dopamine fried brains but you can say that would happen from any dopamine releasing activity such as food, games, etc
Masturbating too much can also tire your dick.

>>174475
Sex isnt a basic need, you wont die without it, it doesnt affect your life. Many people have been celibate and lived a normal life (Used to have a neighbour who was never married but was a nice person) and celibates who werent nice but theres also non-celibates who are nice and not nice, being celibate isnt a cause or measure or your morality, if you have any study or anecdotal evidence backing up this claim I would love to see it
Also the comments about muslims being pure are false (I wish they were), yes a lot of muslims do (culturally) force the hijab but the men are absolute horn dogs who literally cannot survive a day without porn (T. A muslim who grew around with other muslims before, also had a porn-addicted father who was a deadbeat piece of shit)

>>174509
>no anime because it is "degenerate"
>no video games because of "violence"
>no rock and metal music because "satanic", unless it is about praising the lord ofc
>no porn
>no welfare of any kind (if you don't work you shall not eat) (dont agree)
>forced to socialize (dont agree)
>forced to work
>forced to have a family or become a monk/priest
>no art/entertainment and philosophy except if it passes by christian morals (dont agree but I dont know what you consider art)
>>174512


I agree with some of it not because of religion but because now with no restrictions on anything, the world seems like hedonistic hell, people are bothered doing anything but playing games or watching porn (this thing also affects third world countries which cause their countries to become worse or not improve), I honestly think there should be restrictions on certain things

>>174512
I dont know who you talk to because most people would chose the first one, hell I dont even masturbate/have sex for an entire month and I get nothing in return, thats the easiest money in the world, interaction/socialization is more important (talking with friends, family, etc).

>>174514
You have to see the bigger picture: the majority of people are normals. Normals aren't okay with just masturbating for one reason or another. Sex is pretty important to them, actually the most important thing to them. If you take away sex from them they will go apeshit. And wizards and outcasts will suffer in the end.
Let the normals have their orgies, at least they are ignoring us during these.

>>174516
Puritanism is a form of christianity, fuckface. One of the strictest kind of christianity.

>You mean no ecchi, lewd, or pure edge anime
>You mean no ecchi, lewd, or pure edge video games
Quite possibly no anime and video games altogether since christians hate both of these things. And we don't need moralfags censoring things for us, choosing what is good to consume and what isn't.
>You mean no non-puritan lyrics or vocal styles
Again fuck off with try to tell others what to listen to.
>What? You do know that it is mostly Christians who work at food kitchens for the homeless right? Socialism and utilitarianism is secular Christianity as it is anyways. I think you confuse WASP values with that of Christians in general. Also mistaking technological progress making things easy enough for welfare to exist, when during the past in popular christian times it was obvious such a thing as welfare could not exist.
All right you are either pure retarded or just plain trolling at this point. Christians are against any kind of bux that goes to healthy young people. Just because they go to help out homeless guys once in a while doesn't mean they are pro-welfare/bux. Most christians take the command of St Paul very seriously when he said that those who don't work shouldn't eat.
Socialism and utilitarianism are anti-wizardly too by the way. They both would require us to work and to be useful just like christians require us to be.
And no it has nothing to do with progress. Bux would have always been possible but christians thought only the aristocracy and the leaders of the church deserved an easy life.
>What? Just absurd.
>Same point as socialize.
Socialization is the christian idea of fun. I know this because I'm familiar with christians. They only like outdoor sports, literal boy scout stuff and other community-based hobbies. They don't let you be alone because that is bad - unless you want to pray.
And concerning family, yes. A christian society would shame everyone who wants to be alone. They can't understand the idea that some people would rather not marry or not have a stable relationship. They only acknowledge married people or priests/monks.
>Purely delusional at this point, all of western art originates from churches and the religious. Hell Christians are the only reason you can even read Plato and Aristotle to this very day. Modern western musical scales, paintings, writings, all of it is from Christians. Pretending otherwise is just petty bias against Christianity.
All right, you can fuck off again. Western art is based upon ancient greeks/romans and the Renaissance. Christians tried really hard to erase every kind of art and substitute it with their own "art" but they failed because their alternative was so shit artists had to return to pre-christian grounds.
"Christians saved Plato and Aristotle for us!" Haha, fuck off! Yes and they erased much more other works which were found un-christian or pagan. We have fragments only or not even that for lots of ancient works, whether they were related to philosophy or art. Indeed, thank you christian savages for not destroying everything!! And then let's not forget about the good old tradition of persecuting anyone who philosophized or thought outside of christianity.
The classical antiquity and the era of secular humanism are responsible for the culture of the West mainly. Christianity did more damage than good.

>>174524
Sex isn't but sexual satisfaction is a basic need. If you deny yourself long enough you will develop mental and emotional problems. Masturbating is a part of sexuality too. It is a basic need, your body betrays you every time you get an erection.
I never argued for muslims being pure, you misunderstood me. I said muslim societies are similar to christian societies in terms of banning pornography. You either grew up in the West or in a "liberal" muslim country because it is a fact that most muslim countries ban pornography.

>I agree with some of it not because of religion but because now with no restrictions on anything, the world seems like hedonistic hell, people are bothered doing anything but playing games or watching porn (this thing also affects third world countries which cause their countries to become worse or not improve), I honestly think there should be restrictions on certain things

I would rather live in a hedonistic hell than in a strict, conservative, authoritarian society that demands you to contribute to society and to live life like a slave. Your mindset sounds very anti-NEET/anti-wizardly to me.

>most people would chose the first one
>interaction/socialization is more important
You are projecting.

>>174537
Ok but what if we can ban sex and still somehow avoid the whole normals targeting us out of boredom thing, would you be on board?

Cuz it doesn’t sound like your fear of that scenario is the real reason you support sexual lib

>>174537
>Puritanism
Yes but you can have puritan values without being a "puritan". It is a common word to refer to as a counter weight to sexual liberation ideas. Which is the way one should take the OP since he mentions nothing about Christians at all.
>Quite possibly no anime and video games
What? The only thing Christians argue is to not have sexual and violent video games and anime. If they want to ban anime and video games it stems from the idea that Satan pushes for violent and sexual ideas through that medium. Which would no longer be the case if there were no violent or sexual games/anime so don't try to greentext that. Christianity is not anti-genre or anti medium as you think it is. Otherwise it would not have allowed art to flourish while it was in the power.
>Again fuck off with try to tell others what to listen to.
Not an argument. Also that happens regardless of Christianity or not, so even if it was an argument it fails anyways.
>Christians are against any kind of bux that goes to healthy young people.
Everyone in the world who works for a living is. Welfare as it is - is suppose to be a way to allow those who cannot work to still afford to live. This comes from a "all men are born equal" idea which stems from Christianity. In times before, retards, the unfit, and the autistic would either be used as manual labour slaves or simply killed if they could not even function at that.
>Socialism and utilitarianism are anti-wizardly
If anyone needed any proof of your contradictory nature, there it is. The two ideas that conceived and implemented "bux" is now anti wizardly… except bux are pro wizardly too accord to you. Well played!
>A christian society would shame everyone who wants to be alone.
You mean all societies regardless of Christianity do this. Also this is not "forced to socialize", unless you also agree that modern atheist society also "forces" you in the exact same fashion.
>Western art is based upon ancient greeks/romans and the Renaissance
And? Cathedrals hold some of the greatest art and artistic architecture the world has ever held their eyes on. Modern music began in churches, and to disagree with that point is to admit you are too emotional for a proper conversation. Same with painting, the church commissions powered much of it.
>Yes and they erased much more other works which were found un-christian or pagan.
By having scribes hand copy philosophical works that they found? Are they saving them or destroying them, you can't seem to decide. You seem to forget that huge swaths of knowledge was lost when Rome fell, and then again when the Christian Byzantine empire fell. Instead preferring a biased take that everything was intentionally burned by the christian boogieman, despite the boogieman also saving knowledge for him to read at all.

>fuck off
>fuck off again
>haha fuck offfuck off
>fuck off
>fuck off
>fuck offfuck offfuck offfuck off
Imagine being this emotionally invested, clearly you are beyond bitter and completely filled with angst. My hope that you could carry on this topic in a calm and rational fashion is very quickly disappearing.

>>174553
>fuck off
>fuck off again
>haha fuck offfuck off
>fuck off
>fuck off
>fuck offfuck offfuck offfuck off
And he thinks he's le Rational Atheist and you're the Evil Dogmatic Christian.

>>174550
I would be neutral then. I wouldn't benefit from normals being more lustful and sexually repressed in any way, even if they couldn't hurt me. On another note, no sex would mean no new porn content which would make me sad too.

>>174553
Puritan values originate from puritanism. And puritanism originates from christianity.
>anime/games
All right, whatever you say. In that case too, I don't want some hypocrite moralfag know-it-all to tell me what I can watch and what I can't. If I want to consume violent and sexual content then I should be able to.
>It would not have allowed art to flourish while it was in the power
It didn't allow art to flourish at all, where do you get all this crap? Like I said, secular humanism is responsible for the artistic achievements of the West. Christianity prevented arts from flourishing because it imposed pointless moralfaggotry on everything it touched. Anything that slightly offended or was different from christian thought was shunned or was banned while christianity had the power. Renaissance emerged in a time when christianity lost its grip on things and took a slightly liberal/tolerant approach because of the influence of various nobles - who, guess what, were influenced by pre-christian writings and thoughts.
>Not an argument. Also that happens regardless of Christianity or not, so even if it was an argument it fails anyways.
What? Who tells you what music you can listen to nowadays? Fuck off, shithead. You are really grasping at straws now. And it is an argument, people should be allowed to enjoy whatever music they enjoy.
>Everyone in the world who works for a living is.
Another stupid "argument". There are plenty of people who only work because it is necessary in order to live but if they had the opportunity to live on bux or welfare they would stop working instantly. Only masochists and slaves advocate for work-based society.
>This comes from a "all men are born equal" idea which stems from Christianity
Hoho, you are trolling really. Christians preach equality BEFORE God, not general equality. Christianity is always supporting societies based on strict hierarchies. They don't give a fuck about poor people, in fact christianity always advocated "just accept your fate on earth and shut up". Accept your place in society - even if it is slaving away for shitty minimum wage for all your life - and don't complain.
>The two ideas that conceived and implemented "bux" is now anti wizardly… except bux are pro wizardly too accord to you. Well played!
Are you an idiot? In socialism no bux goes to those who don't want to work. Same for utilitarianism. You don't know shit if you state otherwise.
>You mean all societies regardless of Christianity do this
There are different degrees. Individualistic and liberal societies allow one to keep to himself better than collectivist societies like fascism, socialism or even christianity. Christianity is a community-based religion, don't bullshit around.
>And?
No argument. You do acknowledge my point then.
>Modern music began in churches,
All right. Explain to me how modern music has its roots in church music when christian churches look down on "worldly" music always.
>Are they saving them or destroying them, you can't seem to decide.
You are the one who is biased. I acknowledge they saved some things…from themselves, in the first place. But don't dare to deny the fact many things were erased by them.

>emotionally invested
You are quite the one to talk when you yourself bother read and reply to my posts with walls of texts. Are you bothered that some people see your religion for the ugly and horrible thing it is? Poor baby.

>>174606
>stupid
>idiot
>baby
>trolling
It's clear that no matter what I would say you, there will never be a state of agreement from you. You have deep seated emotional ties to being anti-christian that blind you from any sort of truth or even possibility of truth. I think I've said enough to justify my points rationally, while you continue to show how much baggage you are carrying in this topic. You are so unwilling to compromise or understand the opposite view that you won't even give Christians credit for their absolutely massive influence on music. I'm sure you plan on thinking that you have achieved some sort of victory, rather than seeing the reality that speaking with you is unpleasant in general and will never have any real resolution or end point, since you would never admit to the other side being correct. You are free to do this, yet I shall be going from this conversation regardless. Good bye.

>>174610
You can hide behind the mask of the rational, sophisticated and "objective" debate-partner but that won't make you right. You are stating blatant and obvious lies as truths and you act surprised when people call you out on it. You are either some deluded christian who got brainwashed since early childhood or you are a troll. Or maybe just a contrarian kid who enjoys defending things that he deems as "anti-mainstream". Whatever. This site isn't the place for your kind.

Do not correct a scoffer, lest he hate you; Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.

>>174654
>>174537
For someone that says the lustful are more kinder/less angry, you sure do have a quick temper…

>>174537
"I never argued for muslims being pure, you misunderstood me. I said muslim societies are similar to christian societies in terms of banning pornography."

Yes I know that a lot of muslim countries have a law for porn… But the thing is, it's not enforced, you might as well say it's not illegal since so many people go on pornhub and other porn sites all the time and nothing happens. The police in the middle east (and north africa) arent good at their job at all and the law system is even worse