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File: 1605920355366.png (637.62 KB, 506x800, 253:400, Enneads.png) ImgOps iqdb

 No.174518

Why do wizards here appear to be well versed on Gnostic Christianity but never mention Neoplatonism? I find it to be a valid alternative to Gnosticism because it encourages intellectual contemplation and asceticism without connoting matter and the physical world as a pernicious source of evil. Unlike in Gnostic theology, the Neoplatonic Demiurge isn't a demonic entity, but merely the divine craftsman of the universe, the physical realm an imperfect copy of the higher intellectual realm, and human souls generally take part in a collective world-soul to which individual souls can ascend by pursuing an ascetic lifestyle, experiencing the universe as a whole oneness through negative Apophatic theology and practicing introspection on a daily basis.
I'm not quite articulate and my post may appear confusing, but I recommend every interested wizard to take a look at the Enneads, here's a passage that i'd like to share to give you a taste of what Neoplatonism is about:
>"Nevertheless, how will you discover the beauty which their excellent soul possesses? Withdraw within yourself, and examine yourself. If you do not yet therein discover beauty, do as the artist, who cuts off, polishes, purifies until he has adorned his statue with all the marks of beauty. Remove from your soul, therefore, all that is superfluous, straighten out all that is crooked, purify and illuminate what is obscure, and do not cease perfecting your statue until the divine resplendence of virtue shines forth upon your sight, until you see temperance in its holy purity seated in your breast. When you shall have acquired this perfection; when you will see it in yourself; when you will purely dwell within yourself; when you will cease to meet within yourself any obstacle to unity; when nothing foreign will any more, by its admixture, alter the simplicity of your interior essence; when within your whole being you will be a veritable light, immeasurable in size, uncircumscribed by any figure within narrow boundaries, unincreasable because reaching out to infinity, and entirely incommensurable because it transcends all measure and quantity; when you shall have become such, then, having become sight itself, you may have confidence in yourself, for you will no longer need any guide."
There are plenty of philosophers which through late antiquity contributed to the development of Neoplatonic theology, but I prefer sticking to Plotinus and Damascius because I'm not fond of the overly systematic theology of Iamblichus and Proclus.
Has anyone else ever considered becoming a Neoplatonist here?

 No.174521

>>174518
It almost seems like you've read the Wikipedia article for Gnosticism and without actually reading any Gnostic literature(I just now looked it up and your summary looks like a wikipedian one).
It seems like you're implying there's some sort of "benefit" from Neoplatonism over Gnostism, but philosophy isn't about finding something you like and believing it, it's about finding truth and believing it. When you ask if someone wants to "become a Neoplatonist" you seem to be implying that one can simply change philosophies like they're changing an outfit or registering for a different political party. I don't think anyone but the most brain-dead normie would weigh the "pros and cons" of a philosophy to how it benefits them mentally, emotionally, or materially, and then just change when they find something that sounds cool or makes them feel better.
Philosophies are built layer by layer in a man's mind from the things that he discovers and reasons about the world. When he reads a philosophical text, it is assimilated into his existing beliefs to form something new. He isn't simply reading a book and saying "Yes! I believe!" and converting to his new religion, he's trying to learn more about the world and find new ways of thinking to approach even more closely to truth. I do expect that it's possible for some mind-shattering revelation to completely uproot most or everything he believed since then, but it's rare for anything but normies. (Who themselves might read a verse of the Bible and become "devout Christians", and then upon reading the Vedas become an ardent believer of Hinduism, then again they may watch a Chinese movie and realize they were Taoists all along, until they at last read the Bible and repeat the cycle.)

To answer your last question, I have never considered any philosophy, I hope that you haven't, and I wish that no-one did.

 No.174522

>>174521
>(Who themselves might read a verse of the Bible and become "devout Christians", and then upon reading the Vedas become an ardent believer of Hinduism, then again they may watch a Chinese movie and realize they were Taoists all along, until they at last read the Bible and repeat the cycle.)
I should have included other "philosophies" because this implies an attack on religion. These days it's in vogue for normies to worship people like Nietzsche, Max Sterner, or Schopenhauer and subscribe fanatically to beliefs like nihilism and hedonism.

 No.174523

>>174522
>in vogue for normies to worship people like Nietzsche, Max Sterner, or Schopenhauer
When was the last time you spoke to a normie, be honest with me.

 No.174525

>>174521
>To answer your last question, I have never considered any philosophy, I hope that you haven't, and I wish that no-one did.
Because consuming weebshit and wasting your time on video games for kids is an improvement to reading philosophy.

 No.174526

File: 1605968651851.png (144.51 KB, 500x542, 250:271, if-take-you-out-of-that-ca….png) ImgOps iqdb

didn't most if not all neoplatonists become existentialists?

 No.174527

File: 1605970958465.png (267.45 KB, 768x545, 768:545, cat.png) ImgOps iqdb

>Idealism

 No.174529

>>174525
I think you misunderstood. "Consider a philosophy" here means something different based on the rest of the post. I meant that I have never and wish others never considered different philosophies the same way they consider a new job or car.

 No.174531

Most of the "Gnostics" here are just angsty antinatalists who saw some shitpost comic about how they can be angry at a demiurge and call themselves Gnostics as a result.

 No.174532

>>174525
explain what a waste of time is my improvebrah friend.

 No.174533

>>174526
I have no idea what you're talking about because I've never read "existentialist literature" (Kierkegaard I suppose) but please tell me why you believe that. Is it because Existentialism is a more "rational" and "secular" progression of some of the ideas in Neoplatonism?
>>174527
Tell me what is wrong with idealism.

 No.174534

File: 1605982358869.jpg (1.28 MB, 1273x1800, 1273:1800, 465.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>174518
pretty much what >>174521 said
not only the idea of favouring X "Philosophy" over Y is retarded because one should not be wearing brands and LARPing, but i also think you don't have that much experience with the Conundrum of Esotericism at all, what i mean by this is that you are comparing Neoplatonism with Gnosticism as if they were Entirely Different things, when in reality Many ideas of Gnosticism correlate and are Syncretic with Neoplatonism, and both are the same with Hermetism, you can test it yourself by Reading the Nag Hammadi, then Reading the Corpus Hermeticum and the Asclepius, and you'll see how many teachings correlate eachother but with Changed Names, the differences are a matter of Aesthetics really, in the West is the Doctrine of the Four Ages, in the East is the Four Yugas, in the West you have Medieval Alchemy, in the east you have the many Types of Yoga, different ways of expressing the Same Truth, this is not to say that those differences are unimportant, those different ways correlate to the Nature of what One is, perhaps one has Success with Hermetic Alchemy, perhaps the other can only understand things through Hermetic Literature, someone could only see things Through the Oracles of the Chaldeans and Astrology, so on, so forth, again no offence intended, but it does not seem as if you understand what this is all about
>>174521
>I don't think anyone but the most brain-dead normie would weigh the "pros and cons" of a philosophy to how it benefits them mentally, emotionally, or materially, and then just change when they find something that sounds cool or makes them feel better.
i remember seeing threads in /Fascist/ literally doing this, just weighing the "Pros" and "Cons" of certain Religions and Esoteric Doctrines just to "Redpill the normies" and get them to join their "National Socialist" (i don't think half of them understand what the Third Reich or Hitler were meant to be in the First Place) circlejerks

 No.174538

Neoplatonism is just self-torture, like most kinds of asceticism. Have fun, though.
>gnosticism
The only valuable gnostic sects were the libertines.

 No.174542

>>174534
>Many ideas of Gnosticism correlate and are Syncretic with Neoplatonism, and both are the same with Hermetism, you can test it yourself by Reading the Nag Hammadi, then Reading the Corpus Hermeticum and the Asclepius, and you'll see how many teachings correlate eachother but with Changed Names, the differences are a matter of Aesthetics really
It if were only a matter of aesthetics Plotinus wouldn't have gone out of his way to make arguments against Gnostics. These philosophies share similarities but are in no way the same thing with changed names.


>>174538
>the only valuable gnostics were the ones who had sex
Are you even trying to fit in?

 No.174543

>>174542
It is not about having sex, it is about enjoying life and not trying to be some hypocrite ascetic. God, I hate the wannabe monks on this site. Besides, most gnostics had sex anyway probably, they just didn't reproduce.

 No.174544

>>174543
So are you indirectly admitting that you'd enjoy life and have sex if you had a chance to?

 No.174545

>>174538
It's not self torture to realize that the material world holds little value. In life there is more suffering than happiness, and under Gnosticism this is manifested as the general view that there is some inherent evil in the material world. The general view of pessimist philosophers like A. Schopenhauer is very similar but without, perhaps, the idealist component.
>There is no doubt that life is given us, but to be overcome, to be got over.
>It is difficult to find happiness in oneself, but impossible to find elsewhere.
These two quotes are enough to draw some parallels with Neoplatonism and especially Gnosticism's ideas of introspection and divine introspection in the case of the latter. The secular and "rational" belief that Schopenhauer held of life being primarily suffering is paralleled with the more religious and philosophical belief that the material world is unimportant or in some way evil in the case of Gnosticism. In the case of both Schopenhauer and the other two, happiness must be discovered within as it cannot be found without.
You say that it's self-torture and asceticism but that isn't really it. It's definitely a lot different.

 No.174546

>>174544
No, I admit that I like hedonism better than meme-asceticism. Pretentious, hypocrite life-denying shills should be burned alive. At least the world would get rid of them and they would be set free from this "horrible" world.

>>174545
And I call this nonsense. Life isn't suffering for the rich, healthy, powerful and lucky people. All life-denying ideology is just the fruit of projection. Projection from the losers of life who can't enjoy this world. So the losers try to take away all value from this world.

 No.174548

>>174546
>And I call this nonsense. Life isn't suffering for the rich, healthy, powerful and lucky people.
Life in general has a very poor distribution of happiness and suffering.
>This explains the fact that we generally find pleasure to be not nearly so pleasant as we expected, and pain very much more painful.
>The pleasure in this world, it has been said, outweighs the pain; or, at any rate, there is an even balance between the two. If the reader wishes to see shortly whether this statement is true, let him compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is engaged in eating the other.
>The best consolation in misfortune or affliction of any kind will be the thought of other people who are in a still worse plight than yourself; and this is a form of consolation open to every one. But what an awful fate this means for mankind as a whole!
> On the Sufferings of the World
The idea is that while some people may live with less suffering than happiness, in life as a whole there will always be greater suffering than happiness.

>So the losers try to take away all value from this world.

Yes, I'm sure Proclus, Plotinus, St. Augustine, St. Valentine and Arthur Schopenhauer were losers… They're not taking value from the world, they're trying to add value to it.

 No.174549

>>174546
>And I call this nonsense. Life isn't suffering for the rich, healthy, powerful and lucky people. All life-denying ideology is just the fruit of projection. Projection from the losers of life who can't enjoy this world. So the losers try to take away all value from this world.
Rich and powerful people are victims of their own power and in most cases end up being depressed, suicidal drug addicts because they wallow in ephemeral hedonism their whole lives.

 No.174551

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>>174542
>It if were only a matter of aesthetics Plotinus wouldn't have gone out of his way to make arguments against Gnostics
that is his problem and not mine, i have read the Corpus Hermeticum, the Asclepius the Eneads and im in the Process of Finishing up the Nag hammadi and i can't for the life of me say that these Teachings contradict eachother at all, mind you i began this Journey by Reading Evola, so perhaps that explains how i can find and see Syncretism in all Doctrines since they are all different Parts of one Primordial Esoteric Doctrine

>>174543
like >>174545 said, realizing Life is trash is far from Mortifying, and in my Case what i have Understood through Contemplations and Reading has made me Happier and a more Complete being than any kike banker overlord, Asceticism is something that is chosen as an Active path, only puritains wanting their Social Brownypoints choose Asceticism as Self-Denial, and the worst part is that it isn't a Matter of happynes, but of Being and Freedom, this World is Bondage, by Understanding Oneself, one understands the Cosmos, by Understanding Cosmos one understands Oneself, the only Source of True Freedom is Gnosis

 No.174555


>>174551
>that is his problem and not mine, i have read the Corpus Hermeticum, the Asclepius the Eneads and im in the Process of Finishing up the Nag hammadi and i can't for the life of me say that these Teachings contradict eachother at all
How could you even read the Enneads and not know Plotinus argued against Gnosticism? The two couldn't be any different than sun and moon are.

>I read Evola

There's your problem, pagan LARPers aren't reliable sources.

 No.174556

File: 1605996055461.png (97.21 KB, 325x256, 325:256, That´s Gold.PNG) ImgOps iqdb

>>174555
>How could you even read the Enneads and not know Plotinus argued against Gnosticism? The two couldn't be any different than sun and moon are.
because i actually read both the Enneads and Gnostic Literature, and i know for a fact that they do not exclude eachother at all, so i do not care what Plotinius's personal opinion of the Gnostics were, because even if he critiziced them, they hold an awful lot of things in common

>There's your problem, pagan LARPers aren't reliable sources.

>Evola
>a Pagan
there's your problem, you actually haven't read anything about Neoplatonism at all and you are just grasping at straws because you read a wikipedia article about Plotinius and how he was aganist Gnostics without actually reading his ass, fuck none here has even Mentioned Hermes Trismegistus whom is the Literal Precursor of both Neo-Platonism Gnosticism and if one believes the Legends about him, probably the Precursor of all Wisdom Ever

 No.174557

>>174556
>because i actually read both the Enneads and Gnostic Literature, and i know for a fact that they do not exclude eachother at all, so i do not care what Plotinius's personal opinion of the Gnostics were, because even if he critiziced them, they hold an awful lot of things in common
They're completely unrelated on a ethical level, and even if on the surface their core ideas look painfully similar, the two are in no way the same or even remotely compatible with each other.
>Gnostics believed they were predestined and elected by the true God
>Neoplatonists didn't, but stated that divine illumination can be achieved by anyone through the contemplation of the Nous
>Gnostics held matter as pure evil
>Neoplatonists held it as non-existence or at best as a parasite mixed with a degree of goodness according to Proclus
>the Gnostic Demiurge is most of the time regarded as an evil or ignorant entity
>the Neoplatonic Demiurge is good because it's an emanation of the One
And many other differences I'm not going to list. You said you read the Enneads, but Neoplatonism goes further than that although I don't agree with the later neoplatonists. Plotinus is just the beginning.

>Evola

>a Pagan
What else do you expect out of someone who wished to reestablish a 2000 year old caste system? Evola was little more than a LARPing clown, which is why he appeases plenty of illiterate neo-nazi normalfags on shitchan

 No.174558

>>174557
He is claiming he read the Enneads but doesn't know that Plotinus refuted gnosticism in II.9? Lol, exposed.

 No.174559

>>174558
He did offer some arguments against it and tried to refute it, yeah, that's what I've been saying all along

 No.174560

File: 1605999060311.png (147.25 KB, 319x316, 319:316, Gay 3.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>174557
>Gnostics believed they were predestined and elected by the true God
>Neoplatonists didn't, but stated that divine illumination can be achieved by anyone through the contemplation of the Nous
perfect Example, The Gnostics speak of Predestination, Plotinius Speaks of contemplation, thing is despite the fact that everyone can Technically Contemplate Nous, not everyone does, in fact not everyone that has read the Divine teachings has necessarily understood them, so even though Contemplation can be the road towards Enlgihtenment, it also requires a special Spark on the side of the Neophyte, one could say that while Everyone can contemplate Nous, only a few do, and you could argue that those are chosen by God, on the other hand you could also turn it around, and say that the Gnostics were Chosen by God precisely because they contemplated the Nous, these differences are not so much Doctrinal but the result of the Difference between the Nature of the Men involved, they can be perfectly Reconciled and Understood, its the same with
>Gnostics held matter as pure evil
>Neoplatonists held it as non-existence or at best as a parasite mixed with a degree of goodness according to Proclus
one could regard matter as non-existance, and one could at the same time regard that non-existance as pure Evil those holding both points, same with the Demiurg, one could Regard him as Evil or as Good but he is still the Creator of Physical Existance as seen by both Doctrines, all these differences you point out are Illusory, as i said before they are the product of Differences of Opinion and Nature than true Differences of Doctrine, the same way that Two man having Disagreements over wich is better, Vanilla or Choclate does not deny the Existance of Milkshake or that neither of them Accept Milkshake as legitimate

>What else do you expect out of someone who wished to reestablish a 2000 year old caste system? Evola was little more than a LARPing clown, which is why he appeases plenty of illiterate neo-nazi normalfags on shitchan

Evola was more than reestablishing a 2000 year old system, wich by the way the fact that you regard it being Old as something bad already says a lot about your Mental Horizons, funniest part is that Evola actually withdrew from Politics Post WW2 and even during it he always had a Fair share of suspicions on both the Third Reich and Fascist Italy because he saw them as Compromised, at least that is the idea i get after Reading Path of Cinnabar and the numerous references he makes across his other Works, so its funny that you say that he wished to "reestablish" when he was as withdrawn from politics as it Gets, with only 3 of his Books even mentioning Politics at all, and the rest of them Banking on Esotericism

it is also hilarious that you talk about National Socialists reading about him because last time i checked most of the Modern "Right Wingers" haven't even Read the Mein Kampf and Vote for Trump, and even in the more Fringe stuff i seen people read on National Socialism has been the few madlads who actually Read Miguel Serrano and got into Esoteric Hitlerism, most of them don't even go beyond Materialism

 No.174561

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>>174558
forgot to reply to this one, but yeah, i DID knew he did, but as i stated on >>174551, it is not something i really paid mind to because i can see the Parallels between their Teachings and can perfectly learn from them without having them Contradict, the best part is that if you start Analyzing things the way >>174557 has done without reading between lines, then the Library of Nag Hammadi would have 0 Sense since most of the Gospels contained there have those types of Disagreements, in wich one Gospel claims Jesus Christ said X and the next Gospel says that Christ said Y, truth is that again, those teachings are merely Different ways of Expressing the same Idea

 No.174562

>>174560
>perfect Example, The Gnostics speak of Predestination, Plotinius Speaks of contemplation, thing is despite the fact that everyone can Technically Contemplate Nous, not everyone does, in fact not everyone that has read the Divine teachings has necessarily understood them, so even though Contemplation can be the road towards Enlgihtenment, it also requires a special Spark on the side of the Neophyte,
It does not require any spark whatsoever, in fact according to Plotinus souls naturally tend to ascend towards the One, but are hindered by matter. This doesn't posit matter as evil, because Plotinus also stated that contemplation can be attained through some arts which produce unseen effects like music, thus the matter that makes the musical instrument can be employed to inch towards the Good. On top of that, there was no selection of or hierarchy of people unlike the Gnostics because every soul regardless of their will participates in the World Soul.

>one could regard matter as non-existance, and one could at the same time regard that non-existance as pure Evil those holding both points, same with the Demiurg, one could Regard him as Evil or as Good but he is still the Creator of Physical Existance as seen by both Doctrines, all these differences you point out are Illusory, as i said before they are the product of Differences of Opinion and Nature than true Differences of Doctrine, the same way that Two man having Disagreements over wich is better, Vanilla or Choclate does not deny the Existance of Milkshake or that neither of them Accept Milkshake as legitimate

Regarding something as evil implies its existence due to its univocity of being, regarding something as non-existence subtracts existence from it. Now Plotinus does not mean literally that matter does not exist, only that it is the privation of the intelligible form and the lowest realm of being that the One embraces within itself. Matter becomes evil only when it's an impediment to reach the One, otherwise it is just the lowest stage of existence that is compared to non-existence.

>Evola was more than reestablishing a 2000 year old system, wich by the way the fact that you regard it being Old as something bad already says a lot about your Mental Horizons, funniest part is that Evola actually withdrew from Politics Post WW2 and even during it he always had a Fair share of suspicions on both the Third Reich and Fascist Italy because he saw them as Compromised, at least that is the idea i get after Reading Path of Cinnabar and the numerous references he makes across his other Works, so its funny that you say that he wished to "reestablish" when he was as withdrawn from politics as it Gets, with only 3 of his Books even mentioning Politics at all, and the rest of them Banking on Esotericism

>it is also hilarious that you talk about National Socialists reading about him because last time i checked most of the Modern "Right Wingers" haven't even Read the Mein Kampf and Vote for Trump, and even in the more Fringe stuff i seen people read on National Socialism has been the few madlads who actually Read Miguel Serrano and got into Esoteric Hitlerism, most of them don't even go beyond Materialism
Evola is a celebrity for /pol/tards.

 No.174563

File: 1606001276905.png (184.57 KB, 494x328, 247:164, Lateral Shuffle.PNG) ImgOps iqdb

>>174562
>It does not require any spark whatsoever, in fact according to Plotinus souls naturally tend to ascend towards the One, but are hindered by matter. This doesn't posit matter as evil, because Plotinus also stated that contemplation can be attained through some arts which produce unseen effects like music, thus the matter that makes the musical instrument can be employed to inch towards the Good. On top of that, there was no selection of or hierarchy of people unlike the Gnostics because every soul regardless of their will participates in the World Soul.
good, i do not reject Plotinius's Opinion, my point is that Views can be Reconciled, in fact the bit you said about Arts being Initatory is also something that can be Syncretized with other Doctrines like Orphism, where if i recall correctly some extracts of the Theogony where meant to be Chanted with music in the Background, the differences between these are merely Aesthetical, it comes down to one's Specific Nature than a Real difference of the Doctrine itself, that was my Point, the only thing you have done is to reiterate Plotinius's Doctrines without explaining to me how it is somehow Contradicting and Impossible of Reconciliation

>Evola is a celebrity for /pol/tards.

saying it louder does not make it any more true, you have yet to prove that this is true, wich you haven't, you have yet to prove anyone even Reads Evola anymore, and refute anything of what i've said, 2 Posts ago you were the Smuggest Nigger in the Swamp, what happened to that?

 No.174564

>>174563
>the aesthetic argument again
I don't know how you came up with this senseless argument, but the two can not possibly be reconciled because they have a completely different set of beliefs from the amount of emanations of God down to the way their communities were structured. I was parroting Plotinus' words because i don't want to twist his words to fit my narrative any more than Christians twist the words in the OT to prove the existence of the Trinity in the Genesis. The two philosophies were constantly at odds with each other, and Neoplatonism is more compatible with Christianity than Gnosticism has ever been with either.

 No.174588

>>174518
Saturn is fallen, malevolent entity.
There nothing devine in it, anymore or to begin with.
No need to whitewash it or its hideous creation.

 No.174593

>>174562
>/pol/tards
This is wizchan, not reddit or whatever.
>something+tard
And not 4ch.

 No.174596

>>174531
>angsty antinatalists
Nothing wrong with that.

 No.174598

>>174525
>wasting your time
This is normalfag boomer mindset
Life is pointless waste of time in general anyway.

 No.174603

J

 No.174604

>>174588
Saturn is the god of wisdom and will purify your sorry ass so tou'll make it to Heaven. Give the old man some respect

 No.174613

>>174604
Saturn is satan, deity of kikes, niggers and such.
I will not give respect to this abomination.
And there no wisdom in him, only cunning and malevolence, just like in other archons.

 No.174614

>>174604
>saturn is the god of wisdom
Not sure where you got that, he is god of such things as money, degradation, restrictions, limitations, dark occult knowledge, power, authority, perversions, child sacrifices
>sorry ass
Must be reddit.

 No.174622

>>174613
He can be both benevolent and malevolent. Lrn2occult

>>174614
Also the God of Time, what better asset do we have as NEETs than time? Learn from him then ascend towards the Light. Kinda his whole ethos…

Also, I've never been on reddit in my life get the fuck outta here

 No.174623

Saturn does have some dark occult meaning but most importantly he will test you, let you eternal return your life until you get it right. Whats to be afraid of? Just get it right, try to better yourself at least once in your life fuck.

 No.174624

>>174622
There nothing benevolent about him and his knowledge will only help you to descend towards darkness.
And you demonstrated that by your prideful, cringeworthy behavior.

 No.174625

>>174622
>i've never been to reddit
And this is why you are acting like redditor, you are lying or simply belong to this site but to some mistake you decided to stick to chans instead.

 No.174626

>>174623
You are mistaking some evil and malevolence for test, you are suffering stockholm syndrome, or you are just satanist defending his vile master.



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