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File: 1610055595575.jpg (11.49 KB, 300x168, 25:14, life.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

 No.175634

Is everything predetermined in the life?
I am not talking about fate but more akin to being born with golden spoon dying with it and reverse.
I really stopped believing how people can turn their life around, the rags to riches story that are repeated to me like mantra, unless they are born incredibly smart/talented which to me is just another factor of predetermination.

What do ya think about this?

 No.175635

>>175634
Rags to riches used to be quite easy for the average man to achieve, but now you really need to be a genius unless you can benefit from racial quotas. Capitalism is like a game and every game has its end. The winners won before you or I were born and are working on turning their win into an eternal victory by choking out all competition, biologically and economically.

 No.175636

I think you probably didn't check the catalog or have been here for very long.
Since the other determinism thread is still up.

In general determinism is just a weak cope.

 No.175637

>>175634
Your genetics and your first experiences as a baby / young child as well as your environnement basically determines your entire life. There's few studies about how much impact anything you experience as a baby is wired to your brain. Add that the genetic of your ancestors, and your family/parents/environnement you grew up with and yes you end up with your life pretty much determined.
It's actually so obvious i don't even see why people are still discussing about whether life is determined or not.

 No.175638

File: 1610076579016.jpg (28.55 KB, 850x400, 17:8, 1608104785962.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>175634
That was true in middle ages before peasants were allowed to become priest, people are just way lazier or apathetic these days and don't appreciate the wast possibilities they have.

 No.175639

>>175634
>predetermined to write this post

 No.175640

>>175638
Actually you can make modifications to your desires if you're adept at meditation.

 No.175641

Though everything is predetermined people tend to use this as justification for failure - I was predetermined to fail. You can also be predetermined to succeed. In both cases though it comes off as negative. But why- Because you didn't earn your success? I think being predetermined to succeed and self improved could be used as motivation to better your life. You deciding what's predetermined should only be used a tool to forgive yourself in the past and not to justify future failures.

T. Suicidal wiz that's barely holding on

 No.175646

>>175634
I think that the answer to that question makes no difference. The question is dumb. Next.

 No.175647

>>175641

To be fair, if they know they'll fail despite effort, why bother?

If everything IS predetermined, then you basically dont have hope. That's like some 4'11 succubus trying to beat mike tyson, or some other famous fighter, in a fight, it will end in failure

 No.175648

>>175647
Change the task to one is which success is more likely. Don't try to beat Mike Tyson, maybe just try to lift weights. And maybe you'll learn you never were really trying to beat Mike Tyson, you were actually trying to beat someone much weaker. I mean I think it's fair to safe you'll never be president or beat one of the best fighters in the world. Was watching this guy's videos- I find them more motivational than most shit I've seen.
https://youtu.be/2tGZA-F1_n0?t=3326

 No.175650

>>175647
>If everything IS predetermined, then you basically dont have hope.

This makes no sense. The only reason not to have hope is if you know what's going to happen, not if things are predetermined or not. Things might be predetermined, but since you don't know the outcome of things yourself, it really makes no actual difference.

Take this post as an example. Am I going to make a typo before finishing it? It might be predetermined that I will, but that's no reason to not hope and try to write it correctly since I myself can't tell in advance if I'll make a typo or not.

Predetermination is of consequence only if you're aware of the outcome, which of course we're not. The best you can do is to weight an expected value.

 No.175651

>>175634
Intelligence is distributed across the general population in a Pareto ratio, and being exceptionally talented is actually an obstacle towards obtaining success.

 No.175654

>>175634
Yes, life is predetermined. The two most important things that your whole life depends on : first - your genes - the way you look, your body - size, structure and proportions and second the social class your parents belongs to, the wealth of your parents and their families, all of this you have no control of.
So your life is predetermined from the beginning.

Slay , bux or rot - it all has been predetermined by the big Marmot!

 No.175655

>>175650
"Hope is the worst evil, because it makes man to continue his agony!" - Arthur Schopenhauer

 No.175663

>>175655
But that's only part of the picture, to be alive means to hope, if Schopenhauer himself could stop hoping, he would have killed himself, but he didn't. Sure, all good things must eventually come to an end, but if one has already manifested in this plane of existence, one might as well make the best of it and that's what Schopenhauer did. Without hope there is no action, without action there is no result, without result there is no fulfillment, only premature nothingness that even the dead don't have to deal with. Schopenhauer was being uppity when he said that, but he still was doing his best his whole life, he earned his right to bitch, so its not distasteful, unlike when hypocrites do it.

 No.175664

>>175663
Only best of the best kill themselves. Most are too scared to do it, but they all have being thinking about it.

 No.175668

>>175634
I don't believe in predetermination. Genetics and environment are given but that does not mean that the future is predetermined. Some people start with an advantage and still lose, while others start with a disadvantage and still win. Bad genetics and bad environment are a severe handycap, but it does not automatically mean that you will only suffer and fail in life. I think everything is best understood mathematically. If you have a handycap your probabilities to win are smaller but are not zero.

Predetermination does not exist only probability exists

 No.175671

>>175668
Sure. There is no 100% predetermination rate only the higher and lower percentages as you say. But as said
>>175637
these things sway your life in big percentages.

 No.175673

I do not think everything, every action, is predetermined. But I do think that everyone has a place in life. I don't mean everyone is needed or are all part of some grand plan, nobody is essential. I mean I think life is predetermined in that are only allowed the *opportunity* to go so far in life and no further.

Some people have the opportunity for potential greatness. For example, I think many people have the potential to become Mozart or Bezos, they were born with all the right genes/characteristics, got the right education/upbringing, have the right networking/social connections, etc. But the x-factor is luck. That luck is partly what I believe to be part of the predetermined destiny, e.g. having the right idea at the right place and the right time with the right people in the right mood. And there are also many who have the opportunity, but do not make the most of it; they are content where they are in life and do not try further, or perhaps scared of losing what they have. For example, rich kids who just live and party off their parent's money, or poor people who work until they achieve a middle-class life, then stop taking risks and working as hard even if they have the potential to do more. Then there are others who just can't get ahead of life no matter how hard or how often they try. Every time they try to improve their life, something always comes up to kick them back down again; a war, an earthquake, an economic collapse, an asshole boss, a backstabbing coworker, a false accusation, a critical career mistake, a crippling accident, a school bully, a family crisis, an absent father, a ruinous divorce, an unexplained illness, etc. It's almost as if something is deliberately keeping them in that place in life, even if hardly any of it is deliberately targeting that individual personally, they are not given the opportunity to have better. Many things unrelated and outside their control, yet determines their life. And worse, even if they are given the rare opportunity to do better, they fail for whatever reason and are never given the opportunity again, forever branded a failure.

What makes me personally believe this is I felt I hit that invisible predetermined ceiling in my life years ago. This was after over 3 decades of constant fighting with life during and since high school to try and improve my situation, make myself happier and richer, but every time I did there was always something to kick me back down again. Cowardliness and mistakes I made that cost me dearly; deliberate actions and selfishness of others that let them profit at my expense; burnout, breakdowns and an illness that doctors still can't figure out, a massive recession that we still haven't fully climbed out of, betrayals, etc; all eventually made me give up trying. I stopped fighting, withdrew from a lot of society and work. And then it happened. My life became okay. Once I stayed in my place in life, things settled down, life became calmer and more stable. I am poor and a wizard, but not in constant distress all the time, I am not fighting against the grain all the time. Once I stopped trying to stand up past a certain step, people stopped trying to hammer me down. It's almost as if something is telling me to shut up and be happy with this station in life. And I believe it. Some idiot may quip some inspirational nonsense like "if at first you don't succeed…", but fuck you, I've already done all that for decades. Life is not some disney movie, trying your best does not make everything magically okay, outcomes are not equal and everyone will always put themselves before others. People who manage to beat the odds and overcome life are so rare they might as well have been playing the lottery. But then again, they had the predetermined opportunity to beat the odds. Life is not fair, people are not fair, I just have to put up with it and make do with it.

>>175655
I think it was Nietzsche who said that. Still true though.

 No.175674

>>175664
You got a point. Someone who is afraid of living will naturally also be afraid of dying, but i fail to see virtue in the act of suicide itself.

 No.175676

>>175634
For every action I take, I can come up with a big ass list why I chose that action but at the same time genetics influenced my choice of action.
I don't have an accurate mapping of how genetics influence my actions, which means there also might be an actual random variable/free will that affects my actions.
Thus, I can't accurately determine whether everything I do is predetermined.
So might as well go the utilitarian route and think about which belief will improve my life more.

 No.175677

I think that whether you are born with incredible talents and riches or destined to a life of hardship, suffering ks a constant in life, and the wealthiest person can be as miserable as the most wretched. The human condition make us dissatisfied even if we have everything, and we always crave what we don't possess. And when we get it, we want the next thing. Those who go "from rags to riches" are constantly chasing this.
I don't think our lot to be predetermined, either. There are many factors constantly shaping us and our circumstances from the day we are born. What I do believe is that luck plays a major role in the outcome. People can be talented and smart, they can be compassionate or cruel, they can bemgood at manipulating others, but luck will always determine how it goes for them. And luck is as blind a force as any other.

 No.175692

>>175654
the predetermination you are talking about is different from predetermination in relation to free will, ill call what im talking about predestination just for clarity. so in a scenario where a tsunami is headed for a city, the people in the city would be predetermined to die at this point, nothing can save them, but it has no effect on free will. predetermination has to do with what is observable and measurable. on the other hand you could say that those people were predestined to be in that city and their deaths were going to happen there from the moment that they were born.

so in one case we have a fact, that the laws of the universe work, the tsunami will destroy the city. in the other case we have a belief, that the people could not control whether or not they were in the city when the tsunami hit. this is a belief, because you cannot measure their brain synapses, you cannot say this person was going to be there and this person wasnt. it is because you do not know that predetermination does not apply, not necessarily meaning free will exists.

im using the tsunami to illustrate the difference but in the case of being born ugly, you cant do anything. that doesnt mean that every single action in the universe was set in stone from its creation, it just means some things are out of your control.

 No.175693

>>175655
I don't think this is a true quote. How I interpret his quote is like this:
>When I hope and things don't go the way I hope, that's pure agony
But at that moment you're not actually hoping. You're despairing. To hope is to live in the present. To despair is to live in the future or the past. Maybe you shouldn't set your goals so high so you despair constantly. You probably in your head are holding onto some image of yourself that's a lot better than it really is (I struggle with this.) Some untapped potential self that could have been great. But I think that's a lie- and if you constantly are in despair over your past hopes then you need to hope for smaller things.
>>175668
It's possible predetermination exists on a level we don't understand it, but I get that most (if not all) systems when you zoom far down enough have a chaotic element that makes it unpredictable and rely into probability. But I wouldn't call that chaos as some metaphysical thing for me to gain free will from. And even if it was, you can't control the level of chaos and it's at small levels. You can use your own mind to decide things but the decisions that your mind presents to you are not conscious. And the reason you make your choice is because you had to make that choice, whether chaos or predetermination is making you make that choice. You shouldn't use that as justification to not think about issues or get complacent and lazy for your holding responsibility over your actions.

You can believe in predetermination and still have responsibility for your actions and thoughts.

 No.175696

>>175674
The virtue is that you end your life at your own will. It is the greatest rebel against the order of this world one can ever do. Because this world is made with one point , one goal in mind - to perpetuate the endless suffering and pain. The basic law of this world that proves this is that one creature lives at the expense of another creature. It must kill , thus inflict harm, pain and suffering to another creature. From plants , insects microbes to the most complex organisms , mammals ana animals in general. Thus life itself is pain and suffering. I think the greatest scam ever made was that people think that whoever created this world is a good being. No it is an evil being.
Of course the fairy tale of creating everything from nothing just by its own without any goal and purpose, aka The big bang theory is far more easy to swallow. The most important thing is that it eliminates logic and reason out of the equation.

 No.175703

>>175696
You think your creator will be upset if you rebel against his order and kill yourself?

 No.175704

>>175703
It makes sense , do not you think?

 No.175705

>>175704
You wouldn't recognize sense even if it bit you in the butt.

 No.175713

File: 1610300493338.png (439.08 KB, 638x635, 638:635, perspective.PNG) ImgOps iqdb

One does not need to be born smart and talented to succeed, not being born a sorry mangina is sufficient.

 No.175719

>>175713
>being tryhard
Careful with that edge by the way

 No.175722

>>175713
>1000 years ago
>Beholden to some rich faggy lord
>Gets the brunt of every pestilence, lord gets to wall himself, his family and every other gentry courtier off from the rabble. Still has to farm while his lungs fill up with blood for these fags
>Has to sire a bunch of offspring so his lord's faggot kids will have retinues to raise against some cause he's totally alienated from
>If he manages to live long enough, his body is broken down at a young age from every petty squabble his lord engages in. "Glorious" medieval warfare is raising retinues, and mashing them into the other side's peasant wall in some miserable muddy field. Don't even get gear, lord tells you to bring your sharpest pitch fork and the clothes on your back. Lord also has to keep your lot constantly drunk during the war to lower your inhibition on how utterly tedious and miserable it is.
>Still have to come back and have more kids, endure more plagues and barbarian onslaughts, and feed these stupid fucks all because they tricked everyone a long time ago that their familial bloodline was holy or whatever.

Wow, so based.

 No.175723

Sorry fellow wizards, everything is predetermined.
There is nothing you could have done in the slightest different way you did it. But don't feel overwhelmed by this notion, try instead to accept that you both fully responsible and not responsible at all for your actions. Maybe, consider yourself as waking up from a dream in this exact moment; this is the life you're waking up to, and nothing could have ever been different. If you feel like it, you could make the best of it.

 No.175724

>Is everything predetermined in the life?
About 99% of it is, there is some wiggle room but the general course of your life is decided by your genes, upbringing and economic background. What's left is day-to-day chance and willpower.

 No.175726

What this thread might as well ask is do you personally feel like you have self efficacy or not.

 No.175727

In my opinion everything is predetermined. Every minuscule detail. I've always believed that if you give the same input into two identical brains they will give the same output. I've always felt like we are not that different from a computer program. To some that might seem depressive but not to me.

It goes a bit beyond the rags to riches thing but it should answer your question.

 No.175731

>>175722
not much different from today

 No.175735

>>175731
That was partly my point, but at least in most places you don't have to worry near as much about random violence or a lack of basic medicine.
Grass is always greener, etc.

 No.175737

Maybe it is, maybe it's not, there's no way to know what's going to happen anyway so who cares?

 No.175739

File: 1610377514120.jpg (36.21 KB, 640x427, 640:427, 757654.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>175719
>expecting success to just fall in your lap
>trying is edgy
With that attitude, you must realize that, if your current life doesn't satisfy you, you only have yourself to blame. How about taking responsibility over your actions? Don't be a nigger.

>>175722
In many aspects you probably live better than a king in middle ages did, if you feel content with your life then own it and stop compering yourself to people who actually invested sweat and tears to rise above you.

>>175731
Do you live in Somalia? You can't be serious.

 No.175741

>>175739
normie filth

 No.175743

File: 1610397679897.gif (339.08 KB, 213x199, 213:199, 5a3egr.gif) ImgOps iqdb

>>175741
Rude. I didn't made you lie to yourself to feel better, don't be upset with me just because i see through your bullshit.

 No.175744

File: 1610400576067.jpg (14.39 KB, 608x320, 19:10, leepicfaggot.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>175739
Bro I took a shower this morning, when do I start swimming in pussy and raking in the 7 figures?

 No.175754

>>175713
utterly retarded picture
fought three wars? he appears to be a peasant, what are the odds?

it's like boomers telling you how privileged you are because you've got smartphones and they didn't exist back then, or there are starving children in africa or what have you. also, what does succeed even mean? being a middle class drone?

 No.175765

File: 1610484519107.jpg (13.53 KB, 193x201, 193:201, epinfaggot.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>175744
>Improvebrah never responded

Guess I'll never know.

 No.175768

>>175765
I never said you're going to make it, just that it's your own fault.

 No.175812

yes attractive people are predetermined to live a betterlife than ugly or avarage people

 No.175833

>>175768
False.

 No.175848

>>175739
>How about taking responsibility over your actions?
Sure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)

 No.175850

>>175848
Females lack the sentience necessary to control their actions in the first place so your point is moot.
It's like pointing to an abused dog as evidence for determinism. Humans aren't dogs.

 No.175861

>>175723
This.

I think we could take this question of predetermined life a step beyond genetics, family/early life and so on. Think about this:
Literally every single atom in this entire universe's history has lead up to this singular, exact point in which you're reading this post. For untold aeons things have led to this exact circumstance; it couldn't have been any other way. Regardless of "choices," actions and so on, everything conspired to this absolute moment in time, and the rest of your life. and the rest of everything to follow. Regardless of what you may or may not do, all history is already going to play out in a singular way far beyond time and space. "You" could never have been anything else besides this strange, lost thing that has a basic grasp on the notion of infinity.

It's not so bad when you think about it that way, methinks.



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