Antinatalism is probably one of the stupidest "philosophies" in existence. If you really think life isn't worth living then kill yourself
>b-but muh biological determinism
If you're unwilling to take responsibility for your own actions it's hypocritical to try and hold others accountable for theirs.
Great argument. It's up there with "If life is meaningless just kill yourself" and "If morality is relative, let me rape your ass".
The OP is barely even 5 sentences long and you were only able to read the subject line.
that's a low IQ normalnigger reasoning.
Just man up and override your deep seated biological instinct to live, bro!
wow you're right, I guess I'll just spend my time demanding that the entirety of human society override its deep seated biological instincts instead
i didn't ask to be born, did you?
not being born causes greater suffering than being born
Antinatalism works best when keep it secret and promote antinatalist policies with some other messaging that can more easily trick people. For example in the US alone there have been over 60 million babies aborted since Roe v. Wade, done in the name of nonsense like "female independence." This is a great victory for antinatalism.
>What do you do when someone asks you (e.g., your mother), "When are you going to have children, anon?"
say i wont. but she would never ask that to begin with, my family knows i have no interest in normalfag life events
>Have you ever wanted to have kids?
too much responsibility. i cant even drive a car or shower or wash my clothing are you fucking kidding me. i dont know anyone in the world exists that i would want to "partner with" and be in a relationship. my own life is enough
>Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids?
no? its not going to happen anyway
>About how fucked up your kids would be?
antinatalism is gay, but so is natalism. the entire thing is a nonissue for me i dont give a shit about other groids breeding
its just because having kids mskes zero sense to me that i might smell like an antinatalist
I look at antinatalism from a financial perspective. If you're rich then go ahead and reproduce to pass on your clearly superior genes. Normalfags, however, should be making enough income to support themselves as well as a child, typically this isn't what happens though. Single mothers in poverty are popping out kids at an alarming rate while they grow up with various mental disorders from having fucked up childhoods. I think most wizards are the product of broken homes. We were disadvantaged from the start.
>>178442>What do you do when someone asks you (e.g., your mother), "When are you going to have children, anon?"
I say nothing, or just try to brush it off>Have you ever wanted to have kids?
Kind of, I guess.>Why?
Two reasons come to mind. 1. they seem emotionally fulfilling (though I know it's not) 2. I want to be able to raise them better than I was raised (and this is the sentiment that I think normalfags are motivated the most by)>Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids? About how fucked up your kids would be?
No, the thought genuinely never occurs to me. I am too far removed from relationships that kids aren't even really in my mind. I'd have to adopt one, which would never happen.
My mother had a child in her 40's and it came out a little impaired.
It succesfully turned me away from the idea of parenthood despite my cathocuck conditioning.
We don't talk about it with my mother, she knows my stance and how I feel about how my childhood went because of her little stunt.
>>178465>rich people have superior genes
>>178465>Single mothers in poverty are popping out kids at an alarming rate while they grow up with various mental disorders from having fucked up childhoods.
I wish it were more politically correct to mention this in modern society>>178468
Anon, don't encourage the IQ statistics faggots.
There's only one good counterargument to being child-free and that is "Who's going to take care of you when you're too old?"
Now you could just say "Oh go to a elderly care" but those places are horrible, the carers are useless or assholes anyways, you'd probably be starved or beaten up. You cant say friends since they'll be just as old as you and thus have to take care of themselves. The only solution would to be dying before you reach 70 or something (Although that would just lead to a giant circlejerk among news journalists about ways to solve "muh depression crisis", and I dont want attention, ever)
First off that’s a shit argument because that’s one of the most selfish reasons to have children, and second off plenty of old people can care for themselves just fine so long as they aren’t doing anything too strenuous.
I never really understood this argument, because I don't know about you, but every younger person I know of "takes care of" their parents by throwing them into a home anyways. I don't know of any children that take care of their parents when they get older. Does that really happen where you live?
I know there's some cracks in this argument, but in terms of "reasons for having children" it's the least stupidest I guess. I know some old people can take care of themselves, but that doesnt account for everyone and also yes I know children do sometimes leave their parents behind but the chance of being taken care of by your own children is higher than an elderly home…
Tbh when I feel like im becoming too old, im just ending it, perhaps my death will be used as natalist propaganda or something but I dont care, I'll be dead
>>178442>Have you ever wanted to have kids?
Yes. And in an ideal world I would still want to have kids, it is perfectly natural to do so, but not anymore. Though I would not scorn normies if they do want to have kids, that's their choice.
>Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids? About how fucked up your kids would be?
Yes. This is exactly why I would not want to have kids, I fear for my own future, I can't bear to think of how bad it will be for any kids now.
>>178492>but in terms of "reasons for having children" it's the least stupidest I guess
I still disagree. Having kids just so you can be cared for when you're old does nothing but perpetuate the cycle, and puts a further burden on the child. I'm not a parent, but I think most would be able to tell you that when you have kids you do everything for their sake, not yours. Selfish parents are the kinds who beat their kids and force them to become doctors just for the money.
I still disagree. You just walked over >>178490
without responding to the points. I'm not responding to your points and saying I haven't changed my mind at all because I'm copying the exact same modus operandi you're using.
>>178488>Who's going to take care of you when you're too old?
Simple. Just blow your brains out when you get old.
I literally said that, but there's a problem, news outlets will be reported on your death 24/7 (thinking "depwesson" is the cause) and there might be new laws placed to make that harder for other people (which would mean more people will be too old and cant just chicken out like you and I)
>>178520>news outlets will be reported on your death 24/7
lol no, normalfags don't give a shit if a wizard kills himself
He is right though that normie politicians will use 'suicide statistics' to try to justify more bullshit controlling measures.
>>178520>news outlets will be reported on your death 24/7https://www.fluther.com/75014/why-are-suicides-not-reported-in-the-news-unless-someone-gets/>I’m a journalist, not in an English speaking country but the main principles are pretty much the same all over the world.>There has to be a story behind it, otherwise we’ve nothing to report. And as others have already stated, we need to show respect to relatives and family. Suicides can be due to a lot of reasons, sometimes there’s clearly a story behind or details that are of news value (such as jumping off a high building etc, those are unusual details which are of news value) it and in such cases we do report it. If someone just committed suicide and the reasons are not known there is not much we can write about, and as already stated, we want to show respect to family.>If the person committing suicide takes the life of others too, it is a crime and as journalists it’s part of our responsibility to report about crimes and illegal actions in society.
If you don't make a spectacle of your death or take others with you, you'll be fine. The police won't have a reason to notify the news if your death is evidently a suicide without question.
its called taking care of your health and not treating your body like shit so you can live comfortably on your own into your 70s and 80s.
O.K., you kicked the can down the road a decade. You still have the same problem.
some poeple just don't like children. Imagine someone who doesn't like video games and try to convince them they are fun.
Imagine certain foods some people love and others don't. Imagine certain morals and life-philosophies people live by for seemingly no reason.
To demand logical explanations is to have merely taken the first and most obvious step towards understanding. But eventually you'll realize that science, formula and argument does not penetrate anything besides simple natural phenomena.
Wanting children is as irrational as having fun while playing DOTA 2.
That comparison just does not work. A child is a living person, with their own thoughts and feelings. You cannot equate them with food or videogames.
why would you want to live that long?
Ah, well, that argument did it for me, guess I'll advocate for having kids now.
How about dogs? Some people want a pet, some not. Next you say "children are human beings, not pets", true, true. I am trying to compare things, so you can understand how it connects, since it cannot be explained with simple statements.
I don't like pets, but I wanted children. Not that this is something for wizards. But it is something I wanted more than anything else and I'd have gladly given up my video games for a family. Alas it only comes in a package with a succubus and I am not interested in that part of the deal, neither would a succubus be interested in me.
I think that the investigation as to why people want children or why some don't is completely fruitless, since it'll come down to "we're wired that way". Even in better times when society was not run by grifter globalist clans and succubists, there were men and succubi who didn't want children. So it's not purely learned either. Unless one could prove that all those had a difficult upbringing with bad family situations.
Better not. People who don't have that instinct should not be having kids. I think advocating for it is damaging. Let people who want children have children and those who don't want them not have them. Any sort of advocacy leads to problems -> see succubi in tech. Why push them into tech if they don't want to be in there? After their 3+ years degree they only stay in tech for 3 years and move onto another role, on average. What was the point?
antinatalism normalfags are really the new atheists, it doesn't stop groids from breeding, it just lets them have sex without any consequences
hilarious to see that "wizards" here advocating for their rights to have sex
>>178543>hilarious to see that "wizards" here advocating for their rights to have sex
it's hilarious to see a braindead feminist faggot that lacks reading comprehension like you still coming to Wizchan trying to bait people
I think this is the first time I've read someone calling another post to be bait actually helped me out and helped me not fall for it. Thanks anon.
people really believe this
Right now they might not report on it (although I kind of dont believe it, I always see stories of random college kids killing themselves a lot of times, maybe their parents gave them permission) but in the future they might report any death and show it in the face of everyone which would be used to prove someone's agenda (like what >>178527
said, you'll be part of the statistic)
Some healthy people get Alzheimers when they reach 80. Also I never said you have to have kids but out of all the arguments natalists say "YOU'LLL REGRET IT!!/YOU'RE GOING AGAINST GOD/EBOLUTION!!!/etc" it's the least stupidest since if you only care about yourself you might think about having kids so you dont get beaten at an elderly home (although you'll most likely still get beaten in an elderly home if you just have kids for that sole reason and not make sure you and your partner have good genetics and social upbringing)
I'm an ugly crab. So, nobody asks me about that. But I asked my mother why she gave birth to me and she didn't answer me.
Never hear anyone actually make such a argument so I don't think so.
They should practice abstinence if they cannot emotionally and economically provide for children, yes. The compulsion to have sex, if unrestrained, may likely result in unnecessary suffering. Normal people may deem suicide as selfish, but bringing a life into the world without the means to raise them as well as possible, simply because some people could not help their sexual urges, is magnitudes more selfish.
>>178584>means to raise them as well as possible
I can feel that slope getting slippery.
A tiny rule I imagined: never have children (if ever planned to) if can't get out of wagecucking.
and even so… who knows to heal the wizzies from their misery? who in the world?
grow up normalfags dont care you're just blowing your own dick
Yes, it's just a passing question for the pure sake of saying something rather than silence or "How are you?" "The weather is nice isn't it?". No one cares. Many here sure are autistic and try to answer those with length
>>178589>Many here sure are autistic and try to answer those with length
When did being autistic become frowned upon here? Am I missing something?
I mean he's just calling it as he sees it. Just saying why many here enjoy pointless philosophy.
As I grow older I also become more resentful towards normals and edgier. The momentum of this superficial world leaves little room for reflection - for fixing problems. They are just rats caught up in the races. There needs to be a major disaster to waken the rats. If it was within my power, I would cause widespread suffering to break people so that they really understand pain and despair.
>>178612>so that they really understand pain and despair
Normalfags committed suicide left and right because of this covid already, why are you still here?
I do not believe that the alleged pandemic is a threat. I am still here because my limit is not yet reached.
Furthermore, the "pandemic" is an inconvenience IMO. It needs to be even worse to satisfy my sadistic desires to see the status quo crumble. The normals' lives need to be obliterated altogether. Everything keeping them content needs to be put to an end. Food. Shelter. Family. Safety. Hope. Identity. Belonging. I want their reality deconstructed.
well then you haven't known true suffering then
back to the loonie bin with you. dumbass
People will aggregate together any death in which COVID-19 was a contributing factor and just call it a COVID-19 death for convenience. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htmhttps://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities
The statistics released by the CDC itself states that deaths in which only COVID-19 was written on the death certificate make up 5%-6% of all so-called COVID-19 deaths. How the total number is reported in the media and interpreted should be called into question.
They're sex havers ofc, but they don't want to breed because the hundreds of Chads they fucked have ruined the ability to pair bond and children cost time and money etc. Majority of feminists are not having and don't want children, wizzies that promote antinatalism are idiots, thats normalfag/feminist ideology, it's the mainstream, they actually think they are being edgy lol, wizzies are so out of touch with modern society.
This attitude of dismissing people is almost comical. It shows the lack of this elusive "empathy" normals are supposed to possess. I do hope you experience multiple bad events in your future that test your will to live and the feel the subsequent dejection of having nobody familiar to confide in.
Maybe these normals should get a better representative to spout their lofty ideals.
This is why I feel no hesitation to damn humanity if only for my personal gain. This is why people should exercise abstinence when they are in no sensible position to raise children. But I guess I should not demand so much of glorified insects. They are here to consume, grow, and have sex. Self-reflection is alien to them.
>>178444>"If morality is relative, let me rape your ass"
You're fine with damning humanity for personal gain (which would entail causing others to end up in your position, ie more bad events befalling them through your callousness or active exploitation) because you were abused yourself? Great thinking chief. Way to go back to square one.
Why would I save my own tormentors? Just so I can be the "good guy"? I am not Jesus. I am not destined to die for your sins.
Ehhhhh, as much as I hate normals, I really dont care about them too much at times. In fact I dont like this lockdown, not because of myself (I dont have a problem with it) but because it made normal people more depressed and ruder, I like it when I'm "different" to them, I hate it when they play games or read books and comics, they are meant to play their stupid basketball or go to their sorority houses, not enjoy entertainment meant for losers.
Are people still quarantined? I am literally going to school/grocery shopping/restaurants and nothing is different.
it's lessening but it's still there (Lines during supermarkets, masks, gyms are still closed here, etc).
Should have been like every Boomer imo
I hate that phrase "have kids" because it makes it sound trivial and inconsequential. You have a sip of tea, or you have a shit, but you don't just "have" kids. It's an act that creates a new life who will have to live, work, and potentially suffer for 80 years: the decision to reproduce is the most important life decision a person can ever make, and it's a decision that should come with a likewise massive amount of thought and consideration put into it with a heavy bias to the side of 'no, we should not have kids'. Most people should absolutely not reproduce, and it is downright evil for them to do so: People who live in poverty-stricken nations where every day is a struggle, and who choose to create a new life who will likewise have to live their entire life in those terrible circumstances are evil people. People who were slaves, and who chose to reproduce knowing full well that their offspring will likewise spend their entire live in slavery were also evil. The people who /are/ justified in choosing to reproduce are few. Namely, those who have wealth and an excellent quality of family life, those who have a high-prestige family known for their contributions to culture (eg musical families like the Bachs and the Mozarts), and those who run projects that benefit the world (not necessarily human world) that take multiple lifetimes to accomplish.
No one in their right mind asks a lonely person when will they have kids. I never wanted kids but I always think about what kind of an upbringing would make a mentally healthy and happy person. There are plenty of reasons for not having a child. A child should be the biggest project and investment of a parent and if you don't have the personality, finance and the environment to provide all of your child's suffering will be your fault.
if a child is bad, and you are religious, then there is a potential for it to suffer literally forever in the afterlife.
Sage is not a downvote you dumb normalfags, go back.
>>179684>People who live in poverty-stricken nations where every day is a struggle, and who choose to create a new life who will likewise have to live their entire life in those terrible circumstances are evil people.
Should governments make explicit antinatalist policies like the Chinese did?
Antinatalism is not the same as promortalism. Antinatalism is the philosophical position that life is not worth STARTING. Promortalism is the philosophical position that dying as soon as possible is best.
Promortalism, I like that.
>>178442>What do you do when someone asks you…
No one has ever asked me this or been concerned about it; it’s immediately obvious from my appearance/mannerisms that I’m a dead end. Also I don’t go outside or talk to anyone anymore.>Have you ever wanted to have kids? Why?
I used to as it was just part of life, and I thought I could somehow prove that my genetics were actually okay by raising them to be successful/happy.>Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids?
Yes, sometimes. It would be okay if I had a partner with much better genetics than me, but then I’d just be poisoning her pool.>About how fucked up your kids would be?
Extremely. There are so many personality disorders, neurological disorders, diseases and autoimmune conditions in my family that it’s a crime that they weren’t all sterilized 2+ generations ago.
>"When are you going to have children, anon?"
She thinks I'm gay, never received this question
>Have you ever wanted to have kids? Why?
Not really to be honest, most people only breed to have something to take praise on. Kids are no more than trophies for this parents.
>Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids?
I remember begging to have a dog as a kid, and utterly regreting because now I was responsible for something and couldn't just kill myself. Luckily my mom became its owner. If I had a kid I wouldn't dare to leave him/her alone so I'd be stuck to this world until they reach age of majority, that means more years alive which is really bad with my currently psychological state.
>About how fucked up your kids would be?
Unfortunately I have cursed genetics, so they'd have some kind of psycholoical disturb. Aside from that, I'm pretty sure they'd be raised well. I'd teach them how to survive in this world without being a doomer, play with them, guarantee a good childhood full of care and affection. Teach they can follow whatever path they choose, let it be normalgroid or wizardry, provided they're happy.
Basically I'd be the exact opposite of what my parents were. Bring a soul to this planet to make it as miserable as I am is just too much bestial for me.
I'll reply with blackpills about the kind of world future generations are going to face in my doomed country. Remind the asking boomer that his worldview is ignorance, based on the notion that everything is going to stay prosperous forever and keep growing forever. Their world is already falling apart and only going to get worse. I'll remind them that the selfish happiness they seek to draw from having a child will be at the child's expense.
Welcome to the Iron Age of hinduism, wiz
What are your opinions on how long a parents' obligation to their adult children lasts?
As much as I'm a suicidal anti-natalist myself, and in some philosophical sense the answer might be "forever"; we do live in a society, and so we're not totally immune to societal expectations. And I don't think its reasonable to expect room and board into your 50s as a given right. After all maybe your parents did make a mistake in creating you. But by your mid 20s you have your own free choices to make. You are in a condition to sustain your life if you enjoy life. And to leave life, if you hate it. I know "kill yourself" is usually used in a mocking and cruel way. But in this case it is the rational response to your beliefs. And by not killing yourself, you are showing an enjoyment of life, which you are obligated to work for.
If your parents are shitty you should want to cut yourself off from them as soon as possible. If they're good parents they should have given you the tools to live independently once you graduate high school.
>>184515>What are your opinions on how long a parents' obligation to their adult children lasts?
Relative to how much their parents actually contributed to their kids' independence.
the obligation should stop once the child starts acting like an adult, I don’t think drug addicts or people with social/sex lives deserve anything more because they’ve shown they are adult enough, but if you are an autistic retard then I think your parents owe it to take care of you
Plenty of wizards would do work, but normies don't give it to us.
Parents don't have any obligation to their children.
If you need room and board into your 50s then they failed as a parent and should keep paying for that by supporting you
Ebonic parenting, truly brilliant.
I didn't mean it in that way. No one has any obligations, because obligations are mental constructs. There's nothing out there binding you to any course of action, it's just a thought in your mind.
Get this POMO relativist tranny shit out of here
I don't believe what I said is compatible with transgender ideology, as it would mean their idea of "gender" is a mental construct they voluntarily assent to and not something real that determines their identity.
Because most of breeders are psychopaths.
Why would person with empathy bring another poor soul in this literal or not hell?
>>184515>And by not killing yourself, you are showing an enjoyment of life
Wrong, i am showing that i don't have balls, to off myself, goddamned retard.
And no one guarantees that i am not gonna be forced into afterlife if i manage to kys.>which you are obligated to work for.
No i don't, goody do shoes doormat.
By the way, were you molested?
their claim is that "gender identity" is socially constructed via oppressive norms which have no objective physical basis, but out of aretha franklin RESPECT you MUST follow their xir labels, as only they can decide which pronouns are appropriate - these being entirely based on the troon's arbitrary, subjective experience
it's pomo tranny shit
Even without arguing how exactly they define "gender," this part of it>RESPECT you MUST follow their xir labels
is still contrary to what I said, because you cannot have any obligation to do such a thing. What I was saying comes from Max Stirner (d. 1856) and not anything postmodern.
(cont.) All modern "woke" people are moralfags anyway, just for an inverted set of morals. They may claim relativity but they don't actually believe any such thing. They are on a puritanical moral crusade to force everyone into obedience.
true. to call it puritanical is spot on and reminds me of this quote by chesterton>The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad.https://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Gilbert_K_Chesterton/Orthodoxy/The_Suicide_of_Thought_p1.html
no one close (the three left) asks me about my relationships or friends and hasn’t since i was 20 a decade ago. i think they know im a virgin, depressed 30 y.o loser and arent sure what to do
Image rant 8/10.
(Don't worry, I'll take my pills when I'm done here.)
no no, I like this. A little edgy for my taste but gets the point across.
Image rant 10/10.
Thanks for dealing with my schizophrenia. Good night.
Same, I welcome it.
I think the easiest place to start with antinatalism is with history. 99.9% of human history is being a slave or serf on a farm. So if that life isn't worth living, you've already knocked off 99% of humans that already existed, before we start the debate on the present.
Modern humans have existed for about 100,000 years. Agriculture has only existed for ~10,000. You can do the math.
these numbers are fantasy
Your numbers are fantasy
[Last 50 Posts]
I’ll wait for your evidence to the contrary.