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 No.178442[Last 50 Posts]

What do you do when someone asks you (e.g., your mother), "When are you going to have children, anon?" Have you ever wanted to have kids? Why? Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids? About how fucked up your kids would be?


Antinatalism is probably one of the stupidest "philosophies" in existence. If you really think life isn't worth living then kill yourself
>b-but muh biological determinism
If you're unwilling to take responsibility for your own actions it's hypocritical to try and hold others accountable for theirs.


Great argument. It's up there with "If life is meaningless just kill yourself" and "If morality is relative, let me rape your ass".


The OP is barely even 5 sentences long and you were only able to read the subject line.


that's a low IQ normalnigger reasoning.


Just man up and override your deep seated biological instinct to live, bro!


wow you're right, I guess I'll just spend my time demanding that the entirety of human society override its deep seated biological instincts instead


i didn't ask to be born, did you?


not being born causes greater suffering than being born


Antinatalism works best when keep it secret and promote antinatalist policies with some other messaging that can more easily trick people. For example in the US alone there have been over 60 million babies aborted since Roe v. Wade, done in the name of nonsense like "female independence." This is a great victory for antinatalism.


>What do you do when someone asks you (e.g., your mother), "When are you going to have children, anon?"
say i wont. but she would never ask that to begin with, my family knows i have no interest in normalfag life events

>Have you ever wanted to have kids?



too much responsibility. i cant even drive a car or shower or wash my clothing are you fucking kidding me. i dont know anyone in the world exists that i would want to "partner with" and be in a relationship. my own life is enough

>Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids?

no? its not going to happen anyway

>About how fucked up your kids would be?


antinatalism is gay, but so is natalism. the entire thing is a nonissue for me i dont give a shit about other groids breeding

its just because having kids mskes zero sense to me that i might smell like an antinatalist


I look at antinatalism from a financial perspective. If you're rich then go ahead and reproduce to pass on your clearly superior genes. Normalfags, however, should be making enough income to support themselves as well as a child, typically this isn't what happens though. Single mothers in poverty are popping out kids at an alarming rate while they grow up with various mental disorders from having fucked up childhoods. I think most wizards are the product of broken homes. We were disadvantaged from the start.


>What do you do when someone asks you (e.g., your mother), "When are you going to have children, anon?"
I say nothing, or just try to brush it off
>Have you ever wanted to have kids?
Kind of, I guess.
Two reasons come to mind. 1. they seem emotionally fulfilling (though I know it's not) 2. I want to be able to raise them better than I was raised (and this is the sentiment that I think normalfags are motivated the most by)
>Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids? About how fucked up your kids would be?
No, the thought genuinely never occurs to me. I am too far removed from relationships that kids aren't even really in my mind. I'd have to adopt one, which would never happen.


My mother had a child in her 40's and it came out a little impaired.
It succesfully turned me away from the idea of parenthood despite my cathocuck conditioning.
We don't talk about it with my mother, she knows my stance and how I feel about how my childhood went because of her little stunt.


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If you're okay with murdering babies why not just go out and start murdering full-grown normalfag breeders instead?


>rich people have superior genes


>Single mothers in poverty are popping out kids at an alarming rate while they grow up with various mental disorders from having fucked up childhoods.
I wish it were more politically correct to mention this in modern society
I mean…
Anon, don't encourage the IQ statistics faggots.


> “Oh, my God! I can’t believe I used to stand outside Planned Parenthood and chant ‘They have fingernails,’ because those are not cute little baby fingernails. Those are claws or some shit. I should’ve shouted ‘Gross! Kill it! Kill it!’” said the former pro-lifer, admitting he had always pictured an innocent human child in the womb, but now believes no good Christian would be opposed to killing something so obviously evil. “This gross little alien tadpole already has a heartbeat? That’s freaking terrifying. Is—is that a tail?



Antinatalists being hypocrites doesn't mean they are wrong about life in general not being worth living.


There's only one good counterargument to being child-free and that is "Who's going to take care of you when you're too old?"
Now you could just say "Oh go to a elderly care" but those places are horrible, the carers are useless or assholes anyways, you'd probably be starved or beaten up. You cant say friends since they'll be just as old as you and thus have to take care of themselves. The only solution would to be dying before you reach 70 or something (Although that would just lead to a giant circlejerk among news journalists about ways to solve "muh depression crisis", and I dont want attention, ever)


First off that’s a shit argument because that’s one of the most selfish reasons to have children, and second off plenty of old people can care for themselves just fine so long as they aren’t doing anything too strenuous.


I never really understood this argument, because I don't know about you, but every younger person I know of "takes care of" their parents by throwing them into a home anyways. I don't know of any children that take care of their parents when they get older. Does that really happen where you live?


I know there's some cracks in this argument, but in terms of "reasons for having children" it's the least stupidest I guess. I know some old people can take care of themselves, but that doesnt account for everyone and also yes I know children do sometimes leave their parents behind but the chance of being taken care of by your own children is higher than an elderly home…
Tbh when I feel like im becoming too old, im just ending it, perhaps my death will be used as natalist propaganda or something but I dont care, I'll be dead


>Have you ever wanted to have kids?
Yes. And in an ideal world I would still want to have kids, it is perfectly natural to do so, but not anymore. Though I would not scorn normies if they do want to have kids, that's their choice.

>Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids? About how fucked up your kids would be?

Yes. This is exactly why I would not want to have kids, I fear for my own future, I can't bear to think of how bad it will be for any kids now.


>but in terms of "reasons for having children" it's the least stupidest I guess
I still disagree. Having kids just so you can be cared for when you're old does nothing but perpetuate the cycle, and puts a further burden on the child. I'm not a parent, but I think most would be able to tell you that when you have kids you do everything for their sake, not yours. Selfish parents are the kinds who beat their kids and force them to become doctors just for the money.


I still disagree. You just walked over >>178490 without responding to the points. I'm not responding to your points and saying I haven't changed my mind at all because I'm copying the exact same modus operandi you're using.


>Who's going to take care of you when you're too old?
Simple. Just blow your brains out when you get old.


I literally said that, but there's a problem, news outlets will be reported on your death 24/7 (thinking "depwesson" is the cause) and there might be new laws placed to make that harder for other people (which would mean more people will be too old and cant just chicken out like you and I)


>news outlets will be reported on your death 24/7
lol no, normalfags don't give a shit if a wizard kills himself


He is right though that normie politicians will use 'suicide statistics' to try to justify more bullshit controlling measures.


>news outlets will be reported on your death 24/7

>I’m a journalist, not in an English speaking country but the main principles are pretty much the same all over the world.
>There has to be a story behind it, otherwise we’ve nothing to report. And as others have already stated, we need to show respect to relatives and family. Suicides can be due to a lot of reasons, sometimes there’s clearly a story behind or details that are of news value (such as jumping off a high building etc, those are unusual details which are of news value) it and in such cases we do report it. If someone just committed suicide and the reasons are not known there is not much we can write about, and as already stated, we want to show respect to family.
>If the person committing suicide takes the life of others too, it is a crime and as journalists it’s part of our responsibility to report about crimes and illegal actions in society.

If you don't make a spectacle of your death or take others with you, you'll be fine. The police won't have a reason to notify the news if your death is evidently a suicide without question.


its called taking care of your health and not treating your body like shit so you can live comfortably on your own into your 70s and 80s.


O.K., you kicked the can down the road a decade. You still have the same problem.


some poeple just don't like children. Imagine someone who doesn't like video games and try to convince them they are fun.
Imagine certain foods some people love and others don't. Imagine certain morals and life-philosophies people live by for seemingly no reason.

To demand logical explanations is to have merely taken the first and most obvious step towards understanding. But eventually you'll realize that science, formula and argument does not penetrate anything besides simple natural phenomena.

Wanting children is as irrational as having fun while playing DOTA 2.


That comparison just does not work. A child is a living person, with their own thoughts and feelings. You cannot equate them with food or videogames.


why would you want to live that long?


Ah, well, that argument did it for me, guess I'll advocate for having kids now.


How about dogs? Some people want a pet, some not. Next you say "children are human beings, not pets", true, true. I am trying to compare things, so you can understand how it connects, since it cannot be explained with simple statements.

I don't like pets, but I wanted children. Not that this is something for wizards. But it is something I wanted more than anything else and I'd have gladly given up my video games for a family. Alas it only comes in a package with a succubus and I am not interested in that part of the deal, neither would a succubus be interested in me.

I think that the investigation as to why people want children or why some don't is completely fruitless, since it'll come down to "we're wired that way". Even in better times when society was not run by grifter globalist clans and succubists, there were men and succubi who didn't want children. So it's not purely learned either. Unless one could prove that all those had a difficult upbringing with bad family situations.


Better not. People who don't have that instinct should not be having kids. I think advocating for it is damaging. Let people who want children have children and those who don't want them not have them. Any sort of advocacy leads to problems -> see succubi in tech. Why push them into tech if they don't want to be in there? After their 3+ years degree they only stay in tech for 3 years and move onto another role, on average. What was the point?


antinatalism normalfags are really the new atheists, it doesn't stop groids from breeding, it just lets them have sex without any consequences

hilarious to see that "wizards" here advocating for their rights to have sex


>hilarious to see that "wizards" here advocating for their rights to have sex

it's hilarious to see a braindead feminist faggot that lacks reading comprehension like you still coming to Wizchan trying to bait people


I think this is the first time I've read someone calling another post to be bait actually helped me out and helped me not fall for it. Thanks anon.


people really believe this


Right now they might not report on it (although I kind of dont believe it, I always see stories of random college kids killing themselves a lot of times, maybe their parents gave them permission) but in the future they might report any death and show it in the face of everyone which would be used to prove someone's agenda (like what >>178527 said, you'll be part of the statistic)


Some healthy people get Alzheimers when they reach 80. Also I never said you have to have kids but out of all the arguments natalists say "YOU'LLL REGRET IT!!/YOU'RE GOING AGAINST GOD/EBOLUTION!!!/etc" it's the least stupidest since if you only care about yourself you might think about having kids so you dont get beaten at an elderly home (although you'll most likely still get beaten in an elderly home if you just have kids for that sole reason and not make sure you and your partner have good genetics and social upbringing)


I'm an ugly crab. So, nobody asks me about that. But I asked my mother why she gave birth to me and she didn't answer me.


not even bait, most antinatalists on youtube are females


Never hear anyone actually make such a argument so I don't think so.


They should practice abstinence if they cannot emotionally and economically provide for children, yes. The compulsion to have sex, if unrestrained, may likely result in unnecessary suffering. Normal people may deem suicide as selfish, but bringing a life into the world without the means to raise them as well as possible, simply because some people could not help their sexual urges, is magnitudes more selfish.


>means to raise them as well as possible
I can feel that slope getting slippery.


>muh antinatalism
grow up normalfags dont care you're just blowing your own dick


Yes, it's just a passing question for the pure sake of saying something rather than silence or "How are you?" "The weather is nice isn't it?". No one cares. Many here sure are autistic and try to answer those with length


>Many here sure are autistic and try to answer those with length
When did being autistic become frowned upon here? Am I missing something?


I mean he's just calling it as he sees it. Just saying why many here enjoy pointless philosophy.


As I grow older I also become more resentful towards normals and edgier. The momentum of this superficial world leaves little room for reflection - for fixing problems. They are just rats caught up in the races. There needs to be a major disaster to waken the rats. If it was within my power, I would cause widespread suffering to break people so that they really understand pain and despair.


>so that they really understand pain and despair
Normalfags committed suicide left and right because of this covid already, why are you still here?


I do not believe that the alleged pandemic is a threat. I am still here because my limit is not yet reached.


Furthermore, the "pandemic" is an inconvenience IMO. It needs to be even worse to satisfy my sadistic desires to see the status quo crumble. The normals' lives need to be obliterated altogether. Everything keeping them content needs to be put to an end. Food. Shelter. Family. Safety. Hope. Identity. Belonging. I want their reality deconstructed.


well then you haven't known true suffering then


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There is no pandemic. Covid is literally just the regular seasonal flu. If people allow the government to take away their rights in a pandemic, the government is going to create a "pandemic" to take away their rights


back to the loonie bin with you. dumbass


>tfw the wuflu has killed only 568k Americans


People will aggregate together any death in which COVID-19 was a contributing factor and just call it a COVID-19 death for convenience.



The statistics released by the CDC itself states that deaths in which only COVID-19 was written on the death certificate make up 5%-6% of all so-called COVID-19 deaths. How the total number is reported in the media and interpreted should be called into question.


They're sex havers ofc, but they don't want to breed because the hundreds of Chads they fucked have ruined the ability to pair bond and children cost time and money etc. Majority of feminists are not having and don't want children, wizzies that promote antinatalism are idiots, thats normalfag/feminist ideology, it's the mainstream, they actually think they are being edgy lol, wizzies are so out of touch with modern society.


This attitude of dismissing people is almost comical. It shows the lack of this elusive "empathy" normals are supposed to possess. I do hope you experience multiple bad events in your future that test your will to live and the feel the subsequent dejection of having nobody familiar to confide in.

Maybe these normals should get a better representative to spout their lofty ideals.

This is why I feel no hesitation to damn humanity if only for my personal gain. This is why people should exercise abstinence when they are in no sensible position to raise children. But I guess I should not demand so much of glorified insects. They are here to consume, grow, and have sex. Self-reflection is alien to them.


>"If morality is relative, let me rape your ass"
Yes, and?


You're fine with damning humanity for personal gain (which would entail causing others to end up in your position, ie more bad events befalling them through your callousness or active exploitation) because you were abused yourself? Great thinking chief. Way to go back to square one.


Why would I save my own tormentors? Just so I can be the "good guy"? I am not Jesus. I am not destined to die for your sins.


Ehhhhh, as much as I hate normals, I really dont care about them too much at times. In fact I dont like this lockdown, not because of myself (I dont have a problem with it) but because it made normal people more depressed and ruder, I like it when I'm "different" to them, I hate it when they play games or read books and comics, they are meant to play their stupid basketball or go to their sorority houses, not enjoy entertainment meant for losers.


Are people still quarantined? I am literally going to school/grocery shopping/restaurants and nothing is different.


it's lessening but it's still there (Lines during supermarkets, masks, gyms are still closed here, etc).


Should have been like every Boomer imo


I hate that phrase "have kids" because it makes it sound trivial and inconsequential. You have a sip of tea, or you have a shit, but you don't just "have" kids. It's an act that creates a new life who will have to live, work, and potentially suffer for 80 years: the decision to reproduce is the most important life decision a person can ever make, and it's a decision that should come with a likewise massive amount of thought and consideration put into it with a heavy bias to the side of 'no, we should not have kids'. Most people should absolutely not reproduce, and it is downright evil for them to do so: People who live in poverty-stricken nations where every day is a struggle, and who choose to create a new life who will likewise have to live their entire life in those terrible circumstances are evil people. People who were slaves, and who chose to reproduce knowing full well that their offspring will likewise spend their entire live in slavery were also evil. The people who /are/ justified in choosing to reproduce are few. Namely, those who have wealth and an excellent quality of family life, those who have a high-prestige family known for their contributions to culture (eg musical families like the Bachs and the Mozarts), and those who run projects that benefit the world (not necessarily human world) that take multiple lifetimes to accomplish.


No one in their right mind asks a lonely person when will they have kids. I never wanted kids but I always think about what kind of an upbringing would make a mentally healthy and happy person. There are plenty of reasons for not having a child. A child should be the biggest project and investment of a parent and if you don't have the personality, finance and the environment to provide all of your child's suffering will be your fault.


if a child is bad, and you are religious, then there is a potential for it to suffer literally forever in the afterlife.


Sage is not a downvote you dumb normalfags, go back.


>People who live in poverty-stricken nations where every day is a struggle, and who choose to create a new life who will likewise have to live their entire life in those terrible circumstances are evil people.
Should governments make explicit antinatalist policies like the Chinese did?


Antinatalism is not the same as promortalism. Antinatalism is the philosophical position that life is not worth STARTING. Promortalism is the philosophical position that dying as soon as possible is best.


Promortalism, I like that.


>What do you do when someone asks you…
No one has ever asked me this or been concerned about it; it’s immediately obvious from my appearance/mannerisms that I’m a dead end. Also I don’t go outside or talk to anyone anymore.
>Have you ever wanted to have kids? Why?
I used to as it was just part of life, and I thought I could somehow prove that my genetics were actually okay by raising them to be successful/happy.
>Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids?
Yes, sometimes. It would be okay if I had a partner with much better genetics than me, but then I’d just be poisoning her pool.
>About how fucked up your kids would be?
Extremely. There are so many personality disorders, neurological disorders, diseases and autoimmune conditions in my family that it’s a crime that they weren’t all sterilized 2+ generations ago.


>"When are you going to have children, anon?"
She thinks I'm gay, never received this question
>Have you ever wanted to have kids? Why?
Not really to be honest, most people only breed to have something to take praise on. Kids are no more than trophies for this parents.
>Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids?
I remember begging to have a dog as a kid, and utterly regreting because now I was responsible for something and couldn't just kill myself. Luckily my mom became its owner. If I had a kid I wouldn't dare to leave him/her alone so I'd be stuck to this world until they reach age of majority, that means more years alive which is really bad with my currently psychological state.
>About how fucked up your kids would be?
Unfortunately I have cursed genetics, so they'd have some kind of psycholoical disturb. Aside from that, I'm pretty sure they'd be raised well. I'd teach them how to survive in this world without being a doomer, play with them, guarantee a good childhood full of care and affection. Teach they can follow whatever path they choose, let it be normalgroid or wizardry, provided they're happy.

Basically I'd be the exact opposite of what my parents were. Bring a soul to this planet to make it as miserable as I am is just too much bestial for me.


I'll reply with blackpills about the kind of world future generations are going to face in my doomed country. Remind the asking boomer that his worldview is ignorance, based on the notion that everything is going to stay prosperous forever and keep growing forever. Their world is already falling apart and only going to get worse. I'll remind them that the selfish happiness they seek to draw from having a child will be at the child's expense.


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This might sound stupid, but is anyone here anti-natalist, but not for Efilist reasons? There's both a genetic and parental lottery for every single person born on earth. So many people are born into shitty households with narcissist parents and end up being fucked up people. I genuinely believe some people simply want to have kids out of some repressed sadistic desire for total control over someone weaker than themselves.


What are your opinions on how long a parents' obligation to their adult children lasts?

As much as I'm a suicidal anti-natalist myself, and in some philosophical sense the answer might be "forever"; we do live in a society, and so we're not totally immune to societal expectations. And I don't think its reasonable to expect room and board into your 50s as a given right. After all maybe your parents did make a mistake in creating you. But by your mid 20s you have your own free choices to make. You are in a condition to sustain your life if you enjoy life. And to leave life, if you hate it. I know "kill yourself" is usually used in a mocking and cruel way. But in this case it is the rational response to your beliefs. And by not killing yourself, you are showing an enjoyment of life, which you are obligated to work for.


If your parents are shitty you should want to cut yourself off from them as soon as possible. If they're good parents they should have given you the tools to live independently once you graduate high school.


>What are your opinions on how long a parents' obligation to their adult children lasts?
Relative to how much their parents actually contributed to their kids' independence.


the obligation should stop once the child starts acting like an adult, I don’t think drug addicts or people with social/sex lives deserve anything more because they’ve shown they are adult enough, but if you are an autistic retard then I think your parents owe it to take care of you


Plenty of wizards would do work, but normies don't give it to us.


Parents don't have any obligation to their children.


If you need room and board into your 50s then they failed as a parent and should keep paying for that by supporting you


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Why are normalfags such massive psychopaths


Ebonic parenting, truly brilliant.


Fuck off normie


I didn't mean it in that way. No one has any obligations, because obligations are mental constructs. There's nothing out there binding you to any course of action, it's just a thought in your mind.


Get this POMO relativist tranny shit out of here


I don't believe what I said is compatible with transgender ideology, as it would mean their idea of "gender" is a mental construct they voluntarily assent to and not something real that determines their identity.


Because most of breeders are psychopaths.
Why would person with empathy bring another poor soul in this literal or not hell?


>And by not killing yourself, you are showing an enjoyment of life
Wrong, i am showing that i don't have balls, to off myself, goddamned retard.
And no one guarantees that i am not gonna be forced into afterlife if i manage to kys.
>which you are obligated to work for.
No i don't, goody do shoes doormat.
By the way, were you molested?


their claim is that "gender identity" is socially constructed via oppressive norms which have no objective physical basis, but out of aretha franklin RESPECT you MUST follow their xir labels, as only they can decide which pronouns are appropriate - these being entirely based on the troon's arbitrary, subjective experience

it's pomo tranny shit


Even without arguing how exactly they define "gender," this part of it
>RESPECT you MUST follow their xir labels
is still contrary to what I said, because you cannot have any obligation to do such a thing. What I was saying comes from Max Stirner (d. 1856) and not anything postmodern.


(cont.) All modern "woke" people are moralfags anyway, just for an inverted set of morals. They may claim relativity but they don't actually believe any such thing. They are on a puritanical moral crusade to force everyone into obedience.


true. to call it puritanical is spot on and reminds me of this quote by chesterton
>The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad.


no one close (the three left) asks me about my relationships or friends and hasn’t since i was 20 a decade ago. i think they know im a virgin, depressed 30 y.o loser and arent sure what to do


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(Don't worry, I'll take my pills when I'm done here.)


no no, I like this. A little edgy for my taste but gets the point across.


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Thanks for dealing with my schizophrenia. Good night.


Same, I welcome it.


I think the easiest place to start with antinatalism is with history. 99.9% of human history is being a slave or serf on a farm. So if that life isn't worth living, you've already knocked off 99% of humans that already existed, before we start the debate on the present.


Modern humans have existed for about 100,000 years. Agriculture has only existed for ~10,000. You can do the math.


these numbers are fantasy


Your numbers are fantasy


I’ll wait for your evidence to the contrary.


Without looking up, i thought it was 60-45 000 and 6k


so nomadic lives are more worth living than farm lives?


It's a philosophy of straight hating liberal homosexuals, so ofc, a lot of "wizards" are into it.


Most antinatalists I've argued with are for homosexuality. You can't increase the birth rate if you're a homosexual.


you agree with him then


Have you ever wondered why homosexuals exist? I mean, there's sizable populations of homosexuals in every dimorphic sexual species. So it's not exactly a mutation, but something like a feature. Could this be nature's hedge move for population control? That settles it, anti-natalists are validated by nature.


Which poster are we talking about? >>184824 or >>178443 ? I was pointing out that >>184824 's argument didn't make sense. Being antinatalist AND hating fags seems a bit contradictory. Most antinatalists are fine with faggotry.

>Could this be nature's hedge move for population control?
O.K., can we have a side conversation about this idea? Because in all seriousness this HAS been an idea that's floated around in the back of my head. Is there any research that seems to indicate this at all?


>can we have a side conversation about this idea?
It all clicks and makes sense if you agree with Sasha-Baron Cochin on the in-utero high-testosterone environment causing autism, and also believe that in-utero high-estrogen environments cause the opposite of autism, I.e. psychopathy/BPD/sociopathy.
Basically humanity is in an eternal war between r-selected, high-e, psychopathic, high fertility, people with a side effect of creating a lot of gay men and MtFs, versus K-selected, high-T, autistic, low fertility, people with a side effect of creating a lot of lesbians and FtMs. These are each about 20% of the population and (I hope) in long-term equilibrium, while the other 60% of people are normal.


As for how this relates to population restriction, if humanity becomes solely autistic or solely psychopathic most institutions would collapse. So whenever it gets out of the 20/20/60 equilibrium and there are too many psychopaths, it’s offset by the increased homosexuality enough that it returns to equilibrium eventually.


so true high-t is more of an autistic nerd than a chad?


Prenatal high-T, not necessarily post-natal.


Multiple things to clarify in this post. First of all…
r-selected - Quantity over quality approach to offspring.
K-selected - Quality over quantity approach to offspring.
high-e - High levels of Estrogen
high-T - High levels of Testosterone
MtF/FtM - Transexuals, either biological males as females or biological females as males.
BPD - Bi Polar Disorder
Sasha-Baron Cochin - I don't know what author(s?) or paper(s?) this one is referring to. Google keeps autocorrecting my search results to Sacha Baron Cohen and giving me stuff about Borat.

>high-e…high fertility…gay men and MtFs

>high-T…low fertility…lesbians and FtMs
Wouldn't it be solely high-e biological succubi and high-T biological men who would have the high-fertility r-selection?

Where'd this ratio specifically come from?

What's the selection mechanism that makes this dependent on population growth/restriction?


File: 1635091009942.jpeg (52.37 KB, 664x559, 664:559, 8DC59A68-D5D6-4E37-B198-F….jpeg) ImgOps iqdb

Yeah it might have been a bit schizoposting.
I meant to type Simon Baron-Cohen, basically a researcher who publicized the idea of high-prenatal-T children being more likely to be autistic.
> Wouldn't it be solely high-e biological succubi and high-T biological men who would have the high-fertility r-selection?
By this worldview it would be high-E males and females that have more offspring (think criminals with five baby mommas).


File: 1635091814861.png (54.59 KB, 1200x600, 2:1, 6BF6F82A-B0BD-48CA-9F01-03….png) ImgOps iqdb

>Where'd this ratio specifically come from?
Kind of thin air, but given that (a) every person is somewhere on the autism-to-psychopathy spectrum, (b) people are in a normal distribution on this spectrum, and (c) the percentage of people with “true” autism and “true” psychopathy (to the point of being unable to function) is usually found to be around 2%, which would be the second standard deviation on either side, the first standard deviation is around 15-20% that are “more one than the other”.
>What's the selection mechanism that makes this dependent on population growth/restriction?
There would in general be a pressure in favor of psychopaths in times of high/easy resource availability, which would increase the population quickly in a wave of mostly psychopaths. In scarce times these excess psychopaths would die off, and in extremely hard times even people in the middle of the spectrum would die off.


>and also believe that in-utero high-estrogen environments cause the opposite of autism, I.e. psychopathy/BPD/sociopathy
High in-utero T correlate with psychopathy, not the opposite.
>opposite of autism
There's no such thing as "opposite of autism", it isn't part of a dichotomy. The closest thing we have is Autism vs. Schizophrenia but that hypothesis is fringe.


There kind of is though. The opposite of autism is neurotypicality, or hyper-neurotypicality.

For example autists often use imageboards or forums, or even more obscure stuff like Irc/discord.

Hyper neurotypicals only use the internet for tiktok, snapchat, whatsapp etc. because they are more interested in setting up meetings and exchanging greetings than discussing anything meaningful.



Reddit for example is a classically 'autistic' site used mostly by non-neurotypicals.
There are several peer reviewed studies looking at the general characteristics of the posters concluding most of them are likely on the autism spectrum.


Scary. No wonder anonymising tech like VPNs and such are being gradually banned here: they are researching the users, perhaps with university funding


Wouldn't be the first time. There have been masters thesises based on smaller imageboards.

Basically anything you write here could end up in someones dissertation or thesis.

Hell, they someone even made a masters thesis about /b/:


>anonymising tech like VPNs and such are being gradually banned here: they are researching the users
more and more places are banning that shit because retards spoil it by using it to spread spam and flood websites


File: 1636601992625.png (84.49 KB, 839x589, 839:589, l1.png) ImgOps iqdb

I presume you haven't read


This is scary and macabre


>Álvaro says his short stature — he is 5 feet 3 inches tall — has been a significant impediment to his finding a partner or even a temporary dalliance. “I am invisible to succubi,” he says. When he went back to college in 2014 to pursue a degree in translation, for example, he developed a crush on a classmate, but he says the young succubus told him there was no way she could be attracted to him because of his height.

>“I decided to end the friendship because it was doing me more harm than good,” he says.

Yet some fuckwads on Wizchan claim looks can't cause someone to become a wizard.

I mean he's in South America so at least the average height is a bit smaller than in the US, but he was still fucked the moment he was born in this world.
Not a single succubus in the world will ever glance at him twice unless he makes so many millions of dollars that golddiggers start seeing him as easy prey.


>Yet some fuckwads on Wizchan claim looks can't cause someone to become a wizard.
Wizard does not mean crab. your example tells all because this manelt was mad succubus wanted nothing to do with him.
A wizard just does not want to romantically be with succubus. You can be very charismatic and good looking whilst being a wizard.


>A wizard just does not want to romantically be with succubus
what about males? Does a wizard want to romantically be with males?


>The opposite of autism is neurotypicality
That's not what I meant by "opposite" and "dichotomy". Obviously not being on the spectrum is the opposite of Autism, but what the guy I replied to proposed is that there exists a super-spectrum with NTs in the middle and psychopaths on the other side (rather than NTs).




If I looked like him and also lived in a basement I would be antinatalist to. Most anti's are fuck ugly.


Most people around you are from broken fucjed uo homes. Where are these happy well adjusted people hiding at? Is it normal for the majority of the country to smoke and get piss drunk every weekend? Life is not fun it's bearable.


What do you think of the Hindu idea that we chose to be born as who we are? We are responsible for our births. We are not innocent of our births.


I think that it is an unfalsifiable premise and furthermore doesn’t matter as clearly no one remembers making said choice.


conveniant for the caste system isnt it. Eastern philosophy makes great observations about how reality appears to us humans and what being human means yet the metaphysics is conjecture with nothing reasonable to go on even whe nrelegated to purely theoretical ideas.

I would love to be a fly on the wall back then.


I can never relate to the wizards who claim "people tell me I'm good looking! I'm just autistic lol!" Sometimes I feel like I am the only person around here who is legitimately, unironically, objectively unattractive.
Not that I think anything is wrong with the good-looking-but-shy wizards. I am just frustrated that even among outsiders I feel like an outsider.


I'm not asked that, but I'm an autistic fuck who never used his intelligence to learn any skills so I'd have nothing of value to pass onto a child. The line should end with me.


Something being the "least stupid" argument still doesn't make it a good argument.
>Wanting children is as irrational as having fun while playing DOTA 2.
I feel like you didn't get any credit for this zinger.
He's right though. If anything in the past seven months, he's been vindicated.
…I feel like image rants should be more of a thing.

I sometimes imagine what would happen if just like people had strikes to get what they wanted from their workplaces, if entire populations just refused to have children all of a sudden and en masse. I know it's unreasonable, but it's a daydream scenario I think about quite often. Like, would the elites eventually start to really get desperate/worried about their future pleb workforce? This is why I pay attention to Japan quite a bit. I'm interested to see if economic conditions in their country for real people actually start to _improve_ once the population starts really_ dropping off of the cliff.



>implying conservatives are not faggots
>zeal of yours is wizardly
Reddit would be much more suitable place for you, than wizchan.


They just replace plebs with robots.


A literally cope and religious idiocy of shitskins.
Its really thats it.
If this spiritual shit is real than this world is prison for souls, loosh farm and maybe something even worse.


Don't pretend you and your excuse for life is much better.
Your are not even landlord, just some subhuman wageslave.


Not him but I'm sure that it's not hard to have a better life than Gary. The guy does nothing but complain about life and get mad at people who don't understand his philosophy


Just have to say that "How is babby formed" gets me every time. I Have loved it since I was 12 and never will stop loving it.


In response to your post. What scaresme about having kids, is socializing it. Showing it off to family wherever you go, speaking with other parents, ensuring your child is not isolated like you. That scares me. I also feel like I have no energy to even function, i'm always drained. I see people laughing and moving around and I can't recall when I last felt like that, i'm always just so tired. Having a baby that you have to take places it out of the question.


natalism outnumbers antinatalism by a massive degree, you're retarded


We just need to have kids and then school them in anti-natalist beliefs. That'll grow our numbers.


I am glad to see this point discussed. We are equally unaware of what it is like before living as we are of what happens afterwards.

There was a time where a certain quote was making its rounds around public discourse, something like "Theres no reason to fear the afterlife, because it will be just like before birth", and I always hated that. It seems smug and also entirely unjustified, there's no basis for us to assume the two states are equivalent.

Perhaps before birth and after death are not similar at all.

I used to feel that bringing life into the world is immoral, but then I have to wonder the possibility that maybe before birth, we exist in some torturous hellscape and being born is the only way out. In that case, this life is actually salvation.

I dont think it is something that can be known.


I believe in the Buddhist conception of Nirvana in that I think we just live "Life" over and over, a million times if we have to, until we can finally break thru and ascend past the illusion into a state of Nirvana. Whether that is an actual place like Heaven or not I do not have the wisdom to tell you.


lol fuck that my kid won't even know what socialization is. I will train him in the ways of the wizard from birth


i know this post is 5 months old, but i just wanted to say, your offhand remarks REALLY express how i feel about people who willingly breed in 2022

have fun watching your daughter sell her holes so she can buy fentanyl for her and her nigger boyfriend
have fun watching your son become a MtF transexual, and have to attend his gender reveal party, and have your face plastered in the transexual reddit community
have fun watching your daughter be a whore
have fun setting high expectations of your children, and watching them fail every single one of them
have fun realizing that you never loved your children, because your love is conditional, and they didnt meet the conditions

breeders are HONESTLY some of the most selfish egotistical apes in existence. their ego's are so fragile and infantile, that they feel the need to bring in sentient souls who suffer, just to make them happy. its like breeding black slaves into existence, so they can spend their entire life being exploited and beaten, so you can make a bit more money

i did not appreciate being forced into existence and i do not appreciate all the deep suffering i experienced in my life. its not even like we are breeding children into some utopia

BUT STILL. breeders are so proud and egotistical, that they ignore all evidence of the horrors of this world for children, and just satisfy their infantile ego, regardless of how much harm they are causing to children

THIS WILL BE YOUR CHILDREN. i wish i had a video of a proud and arrogant parent talking about how their kids is going to graduate harvard as a doctor, while their kids are having a seizure as a drugged out zombie



>le conservative fear mongering racist rant about niggers raping my non existent daughter and irrelevant transphobia
Go back to fucking /r9k/ groid. I forgot wizchan welcomed /pol/tards with open arms.


>unironic use of 'le x'
holy reddit, batman.


Using "le" ironically isn't any better, especially seeing what irony as a monolith has done to the internet. That said, "Holy X" also falls under shallow new-age template posting material. You can communicate without tired memes and post formats here.
He's a faggot for whining about "racism and transphobia" when the former is a fairly typical slur, and the latter is justified considering how freaky and generally off-putting trannies are; but you're delusional if you think your daughter becoming a druggie whore and your son becoming a tranny is the default. Both of these scenarios are uncommon, they do not happen with over half of the population.
Beyond all the usual wizardly reasons for not having children like purity, eschewing of 3D, and not fitting for reclusive lifestyles — another reason not to have children is the considerable legal, social, economic and financial time investment you need to put into them for at least around two decades. Expecting everyone to want to deal with that when it's often not worth the perceived "payoff" is absurd.


Weird flex from the both of you, but I can see the more general point here. Society is kind of fucked up (to put it lightly), and we have to wonder why the hell people are still having kids.


robots are more expensive to produce than humans, robots require metal which isnt in infinite supply unlike biological organisms


When we will get our Messiah Elliot Rodger the Sequel?


where is this from?


That sucks anon


File: 1656183895522.png (9.22 KB, 413x86, 413:86, theBenetarArgument.png) ImgOps iqdb

Posting and bumping this thread because it appears that anti-natalism posting is the cure to failed normie /r9k/-posters hanging around here.

I'll start off by posting that Benetar-argument-summary from the other thread.


And they are more than welcome, thank you.


The picture is retarded. How is ending your life bad if you measure everything on the pleasure-suffering axis? Yes, suicide usually comes with pain but it can be short and afterwards no suffering at all. It is the right thing to do if you want to lessen suffering in this world.

Not that you should, by the way. And antinatalism is a gay cope around here, by the way x 2. No one in this thread ever had a chance to reproduce. You just want to think you are morally superior for not even being able to "sin", so to speak.


It can cause emotional pain for others long after you've been gone.


>And antinatalism is a gay cope around here, by the way x 2. No one in this thread ever had a chance to reproduce. You just want to think you are morally superior for not even being able to "sin", so to speak.
I actually like anti-natalism just because it gets rid of all of the "muh gf left me"/"why can't I get a gf" /r9k/ threads. Thread quality goes up with anti-natalism. Simple as.


They will be dead in a couple of years too. What's the problem?

Nah, you don't have to be a wiz to be antinat. There are plenty of normals and succs who like antinatalism.

See https://www.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/


>Nah, you don't have to be a wiz to be antinat. There are plenty of normals and succs who like antinatalism.
I can accept this and the previous point without contradiction.


Is that the case for you, are you predicting apocalypse, etc? I'm not quite sure what you mean by a couple years.


How so? You supposedly think antinatalism is so wizardly that it scares off all the crabs. But you don't have any problem with actual succubi and normals being antinatalists. Hmm…

I mean that overall that 30 or 40 years are nothing. So you kill yourself and your parents are depressed. Big deal. They will die soon too. It won't matter. Or even better, maybe your suicide will blackpill them too and make them commit suicide too.

There really is no excuse to keep on living if you think life is inherently evil.


1-There exists wiz and nonwiz antinatalists.
2-Antinatalist imageboards have less "muh gf left me" discussions.
How are the two points contradictory?


You're a retard. I don't give a shit if you're personally le edgy pretentious, self-absorbed sociopath. The point is you were wrong about suicide not creating more suffering.


>But you don't have any problem with actual succubi and normals being antinatalists.
Say I was a black man who brought up abolition because I just wanted to talk to fellow black men, and white men proportionally tended to avoid conversation about abolition (this is not logically identical to "all white men are not abolitionists"). If there were white men who were abolitionists, why would that be a problem?


Because you imply that antinatalism is something wizardly, when it isn't any more than most other ideologies. As I proved to you with that link previously.

Ah but I'm not "le edgy pretentious, self-absorbed sociopath". I'm not wrong at all. Your parents would get over your death most likely in a few months, a year at most. Even if they don't, that is their problem. You got rid of your own suffering, that is what matters more, no? But I know you don't actually want to die. It's cool, you don't have to pretend.

He implied antinatalism scares off crabs, that it is wizardly in some way. But I proved him wrong. Now he denies the relation between the points he made. That is all. There is no relation between antinatalism and being a wizard.


You really like going off on this same tangent every thread you enter, don't you? Even when it makes zero fucking sense. Muh "hurr hurr ur still alive so you don't want to die actually." This isn't the conversation I am having with you right now, fucking ape with a receding frontal lobe. You can clack out all the little retarded jabs you want from your LGBTQP pride rainbow keyboard. The point stands that you made a dumbass statement. You are a sheltered faggot and know nothing of suicide. I've seen it destroy multiple households and I barely talk to anyone anymore. The surviving family weren't the same since then. Your parents raised such a miserable autistic one-track fuckup that I'd actually say you should kill yourself and they deserve to feel bad over it (if they even would).


leftists are so miserable they basically hallucinate theyre beat up and raped at school, theyre beat up and raped going to the movie theater, theyre beat up and raped by cops, theyre beat up and raped by coworkers, and Hitler 2, 3, and 4 are in the senate.
yet theyre still obsessed with having kids here to continue their suffering.

and right wing guys just sit on the computer all day talking about how everything is over and reading literature about how to hate everything even more, and their life has to be conducted in complete secret because you cant even have a convo about normal stuff like Christianity at work anymore because the censorship is so heavy and increasing every day. Everyone around us is demonstrably retarded and addicted to consuming the most horrid carcinogenic shit possible, and most rightists choose to live in isolation and organize exclusively through the computer rather than participate in IRL politics due to the physical distance of other awake human beings.
yet theyre still obsessed with having kids here to watch the niggers take over and get released from prison early with 5 felonies to beat their kids to death.

both just need to stop real bad lol i wish theyd just stop with the kids
the worldview of the leftist is one where white people have been raping and pillaging everything since the dawn of man, theyre even more hopeless than right wing guys.
they have even more reason to support antinatalism but they dont.
"its been fucked for centuries and its been fucked my whole life and im currently suicidal, but im sure my kids will be better off"
at least rightists can masturbate to the 1950's and have delusions that normalfags will somehow unlearn trannies exist and unlearn atheism and return to that.
antinatalism should be a way more mainstream opinion to hold but its not somehow and i dont understand especially at a place like wizchan


>He implied antinatalism scares off crabs, that it is wizardly in some way. But I proved him wrong. Now he denies the relation between the points he made. That is all. There is no relation between antinatalism and being a wizard.
…you proved him wrong?
…he denied the points you made?
…there's NO relation?
…and you didn't even reply to the point I made.
I don't think you're making your side of the argument look very good. I think at this point people are egging you on because you're ruining yourself.
>antinatalism should be a way more mainstream opinion to hold but its not somehow and i dont understand especially at a place like wizchan
I don't get it either. If you read a lot of the messed up childhoods of wizards here, you'd think they'd say, "That's it, this vicious cycle of poor parenting -> fucked up child -> fucked up adult -> poor parenting ->… ends here."


File: 1656384315623.jpeg (138.95 KB, 1200x2028, 100:169, deeplyheldbeliefs.jpeg) ImgOps iqdb

Forgot my image.


Anti-natalism reduces suffering and so its a good ideology in my book. Pro-natalists are also worst of the worst normal scum who support most anti wizard things they will even support things like bachelor tax just to make life of non married childless people to hell. Anyone who argues against ant-natalism is a secret normal and wish to be a normal with a wife and children


File: 1656427007813.png (188.09 KB, 800x579, 800:579, a.png) ImgOps iqdb

antinatalism and extinctionism is a species-preserving instinct as nobody arrives at those conclusions unless they first set out to prove to themselves that life was worth living. or that they suffered such that life was too painful to continue, but doesn't that presuppose that life ought to be less painful and more joyful? so what affect does such a drive have across the species? if despair and weariness were as maladaptive as we imagine (and we live our despair with great pathos) it would have been selected against millennia ago

someone like pentti linkola, who wouldn't hesitate to end of lives of billions, is among the greatest lovers of life as those lives are the price for his love of nature. where ideas like his have been implemented before even out of hatred for the world, e.g. by the gnostics, it had the effect of transmuting the life instinct of the species into something more cunning and subtle. maybe that's the process we're going through atm


Anti natalism does not reduce suffering. There was no suffering for it to reduce in the first place.


Antinatalism actually increases suffering since it doesn't actually work towards decreasing total birth rate. All it does is act as a cult of pity and victimhood to further exacerbate depressed peoples' mental illness.


Cute how much you can't stand people with different opinions. But I am right, you know. The family excuse is an ancient excuse around here and veteran wizchan users like me only laugh at this cope. Seriously, when will you get tired of this? After your parents/family is gone then you will come up with another pathetic excuse why you don't kill yourself despite claiming that you desire death. "Oh the weather is bad today! Oh I can't find a rope around my house! Oh I can't get guns where I live! Oh I'm afraid of hell and reincarnation!" Live according to your personal philosophy for once in your life and go through with suicide already instead of whining on obscure image boards about how you supposedly want to die.

It is clear to me that you don't want to die and have things you care about and that you are attached to this world. Don't play the tsundere.
>B-Baka Life-kun! A-as if anyone would like yo-you, hah!
>who e-enjoys living?! certainly not me!! stupid, stupid, stupid Life-kun, waaaah!!
This is you in case you have trouble understanding. Don't be such a sissy and just confess that you don't have any problem with living.

Yes, I proved him wrong. His point was that antinatalism is somehow wizardly. It isn't any more than other ideologies. I proved it. There are plenty of normals who are antinat. Being antinatalist isn't a wizard exclusive ideology. Deal with it. Also, implying you had a say in whether you ended up as a virgin or normal is just delusional level cope. It's not like you had to refuse several succubi who wanted to have children from you. Don't make laugh, please. If anything, I trust normal and succubi antinatalists way more than the so called antinat wizards here. You just want an excuse to turn your defect into a virtue/moral high ground. It's called resentment morality. Read up about it.

Why should our collective aim be to reduce suffering? Because you are tired of life and see it as nothing else but a chore or torture? That's your problem, not mine or other people's. Find a meaning for your life instead of being so bitter and full of malice that you want to prevent humanity from existing in the future. Just because your very own life isn't what you want it to be.


All you idiots want more people to born, experience pain and all the sad things like death of other people around them and finally succumb to death themselves. Anti-natalism will just reduce the number of people who experience those things, how it do not reduce the amount of suffering? More births is just more suffering thats how simple it is.


I don't want to reduce suffering, I said it already. The desire to reduce suffering at all cost for everyone betrays a weak and tired spirit who doesn't know how to enjoy life anymore. If you hate life so much you probably know what you need to do.

Waahh, all people experiencing pain and sad things is sooo bad! So then why are you still among us? Curious.


>So then why are you still among us?
wizzie sus


>Cute how much you can't stand people with different opinions.
No, you fucking legal retard. The problem is that you keep trying to shift the conversation into this random discussion about my personal feelings on suicide and life. The original conversation was predicated on >>192371:
>Yes, suicide usually comes with pain but it can be short and afterwards no suffering at all
I can't say I really give a single shit about whatever other retarded opinions of yours you're randomly trying to pull in. You're so very clearly naive if you haven't seen suicide cause a lot of emotional suffering for people adjacent to the ones who actually succeed at it. If you can't argue the original point, then I'll just have to take that as a concession from you because I'm not going to entertain whatever stupid fucking conversation you're trying to bring up.


>passive agressive tone
>me stronk ugaa booga
Huffing way too much copium is not same as being actually strong, normgroid.


All of your 'moral justifications' of whether it is cool to have or not to have kids are selfish in their core, for morality itself is no more than refined egoism.

The philosophical reasoning of both sides is boiled down to raw determinism and the existence of free will. Most people here would argue that they are exersicing free will having decided to have or not to have kids, but that their life itself is predetermined. They will proclaim afterwards, that their Kantian conscious, being free and unsullied by the impurity of nature, has arrived at what must be the ultimate truth - a wisdom to be repeated times and times again for the sake of enlightenment.

The comedy of the play here is fun, but the reality is plain and bland: no matter what you(or rather what you think to be you) think - all life clings to life. You will pass away and your words will fade into thin air, the air some other people will enjoy. Or hate.

Every action or inaction, including thoughts, is just a cope. This chan is the shinning example of this fact.


>”When are you going to have children, anon?"
No one asks me this. They get that something is wrong with me that precludes it.
>Have you ever wanted to have kids? Why?
I did in the same way that I used to think I would have a normal life. I don’t mind being around kids.
>Have you ever thought about how fucked up your life would be right now if you had kids?
They would probably have been taken by social services either because my house is filthy or some psycho family member making up things to ruin my life. If a child appeared in my house right now I would feel insanely guilty and put a lot of effort into cleaning and being more normal.
>About how fucked up your kids would be?
With how I’ve treated my body, they would probably have been born with that form of very low functioning autism that is basically Down’s syndrome.


I'm not against the idea of producing offspring
Can't say I've ever been opposed to the idea of having children
modern 21st century wizards


lol It is the curse of many wizards to torture themselves it seems to me at this point. They either want to be normals or to be dead yet they can't achieve either of these. Hilarious. Instead of accepting their lot in life and their place in the world.

Chill, wizkid. Just because we disagree you don't have to lose your mind and bark like some rabid doggie. I am trying to help you and many other lost doggie like you here, that's all, nothing more or less. Don't take it so personally. I'd never hurt the delicate souls of the people here, hehe. Just trying to lead you to confess the truth to yourself and to us. Because you live in serious coping.

Like I said, it is a tired cliché to throw around "ohh ahh Im just gonna wait until family dies xd then I will do it" No, you won't ever do it. You don't have to prove anything to us here. If you wanted to die you wouldn't be here to argue with me. Like many people you don't want death, you only hate the bad parts of life. Hey, come back to earth. Stop living in your delusions. The idea of suicide is a cope for you. And how is this random discussion? lol We are talking about existence, life, death, etc here. It isn't something off-topic.

>interpreting everything you disagree with as "passive aggressive" tone
>I'm gonna call you normgroid because I disagree with you
Yeah, another little delicate special snowflake wiz who can't endure anyone with different opinions.

>everything is just a cope
You browsed imageboards too much, son. Get a break.

My personal philosophy is that people are different. Normals should marry and have kids. Wizards should learn to live alone and to enjoy life this way. It is dangerous and stupid to force everyone under a single hat of morals and customs. I don't think I am better than normals, I am just different. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, everyone comes with different "skill sets".
I also think it is cool that humanity will exist in the future after I am gone. These anti-natalist kids here are just misanthropes pretending they care about morals and suffering lol They don't, they just want to have revenge on humanity by leading it to extinction. They don't enjoy life so nobody should, that is their reasoning.


so when was the last time you volunteered for special needs hospital or donated supplies to an orphanage? it's all lip service, you never cared and you never will


it's nice living in your head rent free lol


Entropy Will Win in the end


You don’t belong here and you’re probably not a wizard either , considering wizchan is losing population , we could assume some are already killing themselves and If I had some easy method like fentanyl I will also do it. You should just go back to 4chan


I doubt it. You underestimate human instincts. Most people still reproduce. People like us are a minority.

Why can't someone be a wizard and love humanity/life too at the same time? If anything you are the bitter failed normal.
>we could assume some are already killing themselves
Nah, they just normed it up probably or got sent to prison/the loony bin or became homeless.
>If I had some easy method like fentanyl I will also do it
Whatever helps you sleep peacefully at night.


File: 1656693495008.png (52.35 KB, 480x536, 60:67, 1652368129989.png) ImgOps iqdb

I'm carving out a hole in your house walls to steal all your cheese and food, get ready motherfucker.

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