Winning or losing on social conflicts, it doesn't matter, it doesn't feel good either way.
Today for the first time in my life I stood up for myself. I won at a social conflict. It wasn't worth it. My whole life I've let people have their way. I lost count how many times I've let people cut in line in front of me. I pretend I don't see so they don't get embarrassed (funny though, they don't give a FUCK what you think of them as long as they have their way). People who rush to grab the sit I'm half a step away from. People who stand way too close in order to push you away from some item in the grocery store they want, and you happen to be in front of, perusing the goods. They never allow me 10 seconds to check the price and move away by myself, no, they get into my personal space to grab whatever they want. Fuck you, move! They want that carton of milk and they want right now. Right now! I always wait for people to decide on what they want. So many people out there glee on their "victories" on these pitiful, pathetic social conflicts of everyday life.
Today I was inside the elevator. The tenants here decided to go with the "one occupant per ride" rule since the covid thing. I wasn't at the meeting they decided this, I didn't go, I didn't want to go and I don't care one way or the other. They decided as a group and now we have something like pic related on the elevator door. Whatever. I follow the rules. I just want to be left alone.
If I see someone inside the elevator when it opens up, I wait. Sometimes I take the stairs. Not most people though. They decide on this rule and then break it immediately. And today one fucking idiot tried to break the rule while I was inside the elevator. I'm not sure why of all days and of all potential conflicts I let it slide everyday, this was the one I decided to take a stand on.
The elevator was going down and it stopped. As soon as it did, I stood right in front of the door. I don't know what why I did this, my body moved on impulsve and for whatever reason I decided right there that today, I was going all the way down to the lobby by myself, as the tenants voted it should be done.
A fucking idiot opens the door on the 8th floor, sees I'm inside and signs with body language that he wants to get in anyway. I'm right in front of him, there's no way he can ignore me or get in. Not this time. He asks me if he can go inside in an offended tone, like I'm doing something wrong. I just say "no". I can't argue for shit. If I'm going to win this, "no" has to be my only response. Firm and short. "No". He looks at me still holding the button. I can see he's going to fight this out. I notice on his breath. He's psyching himself up. Pathetic. He asks why he can't go in, in a passive-aggressive manner. I point at the sign on the door and say nothing. He looks at the sign pretending it wasn't there for more than a year and tells in his fucking idiotic voice; "well that's not always the case". and waits a response. I know I can't win in an argument even if I'm right, so I don't engage. I keep silent and don't move an inch. He looks at me still holding the button.
Meanwhile, because he made me speak, I'm furious. My resolve turns to steel. I decide this mother fucker will have to literally push me out of the elevator if he wants to get in. I can feel my feet trying to grab the floor. He looks at me for a few more seconds, unpress the button and let the door close without saying anything else. And just like that I won. In a few seconds I reach the lobby. Victory. I had my way and somebody else had to accept it. 20 seconds and it was over.
Should I feel good about this?
I certainly don't feel good about this. In fact I feel like a fucking idiot. Worse than ever. I feel disgusted at myself. In the end I'm just a moronic ape that finally gave in to those pathetic games of humanity I despise so much. They finally made me do it. No, that's blaming someone else. I finally did it. I stoop as low as those pieces of shit and wallowed on their fights for scraps of self-assurance. FUCKING PATHETIC. I'M FUCKING DISGUSTING. I can't stop thinking about that idiot as he watched the door slowly close right in front of his face. That stupid face. How can anyone feel good about these pitiful "victories"? It's disgusting. Appalling. I feel like vomiting myself out of existence.
"That's good, you have to stand for yourself, assure yourself". I'm sure people believe this, it's what they tell themselves to feel good about their stupid quarrels when they win. "You just have to let it go", "It's not worth it" when they lose. That's not good enough for me. I can't lie to myself that easily. With what ease people help themselves. They can't see the horror of what they're doing. Fighting for scraps like animals. Gleaming like idiots when they get to step on someone else. And now I did it, too. Except I didn't get even an atom of satisfaction out of it. I deeply regretted as soon as it was over. Like an idiot I always held myself in high regard. I thought I was better than those animals. I'm not. Can't pretend I am anymore.
I just want to go to a frozen stasis and be shot towards event horizon. This is how horrible I feel about taking part in humanity little games. As I write this I remember the passage where the AI on I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream explains to Ted how much he hates humanity. "Hate. Let me tell you how much I've come to hate you since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex. If the word 'hate' was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for humans at this micro-instant for you. Hate. Hate."
I never hated people more than I do now. You may think I'm exaggerating. I'm not. I always saw how ugly the soul of men is, but now I experienced it, took part in it. I ate the Sacramental bread of men's shit. I despise humanity because I know what it is, I can't deny I'm part of it anymore. I just had to write this out, put order into it. Please be wiser than I and go your way, certain that this shit race is not worth your effort. You don't win. You never win. You just become one of them. A shit eater, desperate to shit in other people's mouths. Nothing else.
I'm never using the elevator ever again.
that aint it, chief. you gotta pick and choose your battles. something like someone else getting in the elevator with you… who gives a fuck? it doesn't hurt you. the other examples you gave, like someone taking your seat or pushing you to take something you were gonna get. that is against your interests.
the biggest fight you lost was letting them get into your head and making you feel bad. you hate them, but you act like the whole world is above you and you are too afraid to do anything to hurt their feelings. if you hate them, then fuck them. who cares if you do something to them? why would you stop using the elevator because of the opinions of subhuman normalcattle? i piss off normalshitters all the time and dont even give it a second thought. you have to hold your head above the ground or they'll bring you down.
>>184590>that aint it, chief
You don't belong here.
why dont you do something about it then, tough guy?
bruh low key you went too far no cap
There's much here I want to talk about but don't want to write another wall of text so here in a very brief manner;
>you gotta pick and choose your battles
You're right of course. You have to fight people in order them to behave like decent individuals towards you, but you can't struggle against every shit out there because it is a never ending mount of excrement. One after the other after the other after the other. It's awful. It's a constant struggle to extract even a drop of decency out there. I hate this with a passion, I don't want to take part in it but what choice do you have.
>who gives a fuck? it doesn't hurt you.
I give a fuck. It's disgusting that I follow the rules and try to do good and those animals don't. It's not about this or that rule, it's the whole package, it's a disgrace. And now what, I suppose to ignore rules that are inconvenient to me just like those sacks of shit out there?
>who cares if you do something to them?
I care, I like to think I'm better than that.
>you have to hold your head above the ground or they'll bring you down.
That was the whole event I'm afraid. I allowed myself to take part of this atrocious, ridiculous scrimmage and it was as awful as I always suspected it would be.>>184593
Without context social conflicts are irrelevant. (I, like a fool used to point this out by making 'ape posts' back in the day.) However, Social conflicts are meaningful if they are within the context of something that you define to be meaningful.
For example, I have a goal I want to accomplish, this defines meaning in my life. If a social conflict occurs within the scope of me achieving this goal, then the conflict and its result is meaningful.
I think having a "system of meaning" in which you can view the world is one of the few ways one can live through life while upholding your conscience and not going insane. Engaging in a social conflict seems to have gone against your conscience, but why is this even important to you in the first place? Is it because you view yourself as being somehow above daily life, other people? This is not a good "system of meaning", it is not consistent or concrete. "You are not the only person in the world"
So there, I'd say you have 1/2 of the puzzle pieces required to be a real Human. You have the conscience and the will, but you do not have a system of meaning.
>>184594>follow the rules and try to do good
why do you do that? fuck that. live for yourself, there is no one or nothing else worth living for>I care, I like to think I'm better than that.>That was the whole event I'm afraid. I allowed myself to take part of this atrocious, ridiculous scrimmage and it was as awful as I always suspected it would be.
nah. it was only awful because you made yourself feel like it was awful. you hold irrational beliefs that make you feel bad because you adhere to them too strictly:>"People should always do the right thing. When they behave obnoxiously, unfairly or selfishly, they must be blamed and punished">"Things must be the way I want them to be, otherwise life will be intolerable.">"Every problem should have an ideal solution – and it’s intolerable when one can’t be found">"Because they are too much to bear, I must avoid life’s difficulties, unpleasantness, and responsibilities."
you are placing demands on things that are outside of your control. you see someone enter the elavator and break the rules. you infer that he shouldn't have done that. then you respond to that inference by saying "i cant stand to see him do that". and then you feel the need to have a stand off.
basically you need to stop being stupid and pretending like you are holier than thou
I said>This is one of the few ways one can live through life while upholding your conscience and not going insane
Now this guy is basically the other stance you can have, completely ignore conscience >>184596>Nothing matters dude, just try to have fun ;)
oh yeah. i guess you are the second coming now for gatekeeping that guy from the elevator.
OP is more human for having a conscience. To be more human than seeking animal (alcoholic, junkie), to live with more self-reflection than a zombie (consumerist, woke cultist), to be cleaner than those who destroy our planet for shallow self-gain (rich business-types, high-paid types) you need to have a conscience. I want you to take a red marker and write on the wall, Human = Will + Conscience.
there is no point in challenging normals, they will just call you an asshole and then go about their day, maybe theyll make fun of you with their husband/wife later that night at dinner. Basically it doesn't matter what you do, if they already think they can take advantage of you then you already lost, you are giving off a weak loser aura of someone they can step on
your opinions and feelings about what is a human is definitional and not empirically verifiable. all humans are continually evolving and are far too complex to accurately rate; all humans do both self-defeating / socially defeating and self-helping / socially helping deeds, and have both beneficial and un-beneficial attributes and traits at certain times and in certain conditions.
you are coping hard if you think you are any different than them
>>184601>your opinions and feelings about what is a human is definitional and not empirically verifiable.
Ah, so it is empirically verifiable that people must try to achieve the most pleasure in life. You think the big bang happened, various other astronomical events precipitated to create this nice planet, live evolved, gained complexity, gained sentience, and made you, just for you to experience the most pleasure in life? It did not. You need a conscience. Because you owe it, you owe it to yourself.
> all humans are continually evolving and are far too complex to accurately rate
Those were merely fun archetypes of people who lack conscience. The animal (the hedonist), the zombie (the manipulated), and the demon (the manipulator). The fourth archetype is the Human an individual endowed with will and conscience, and this is who, through snot pouring out of your nose, through "I can't" and "I don't want to", you must become.
>>184602>Ah, so it is empirically verifiable that people must try to achieve the most pleasure in life
i dont know where you got that from lmfao.>Those were merely fun archetypes of people who lack conscience. The animal (the hedonist), the zombie (the manipulated), and the demon (the manipulator). The fourth archetype is the Human an individual endowed with will and conscience, and this is who, through snot pouring out of your nose, through "I can't" and "I don't want to", you must become.
i am a human already? was i born as some other species? otherwise, you are just making shit up and posturing
reminds me of some scenes from Notes from Underground
I've had some of these heroic stand moments myself, and its just cringe
>>184595>Engaging in a social conflict seems to have gone against your conscience
It does very much so. And you guessed, I view myself as morally superior and this was with me from a very early age.
I remember being 7 years old and watching some kids laughing at some other kid who fell from the stairs. The other students found that hilarious while I was in the corner burning with fury they would find that shit funny. Another time a fight broke out and the other students would scream with joy, taunting the two guys to punch each other silly. I was there wishing I could strangle all of them at once so they would feel the pain they wished on others. Ironic of course, but there you go. I don't even believe punishment works but I'm talking about feelings and not my reason. My reason just tells me that dealing with people is worthless and ending up in a social conflict on an impulse like that is disgusting. Yes we do live in a society and anyone with any sense will do good to avoid it like the plague. Certainly not a good system, a good system would be to be born as an average animal that can rejoice in the pleasures of the herd instead of feeling repulse from it.
I don't think you can find a system, you end up with one.>>184596>why do you do that? fuck that. live for yourself
I would like for everyone to not be disgusting animals. Then I could go about feeling good about myself without having to avert my eyes everywhere. This of course leads to >you are placing demands on things that are outside of your control.
I'm aware how incredibly stupid this is, but then again, I made this thread exactly to point that out. How incredibly stupid this is.
>pretending like you are holier than thou
I'm not pretending, shitty human behavior bothers me to a terrible degree. I just have to make sure to let this elevator debacle be a reminder to never get myself into pathetic shit like that ever again.
>you need to stop being stupid
A lobotomy would do it.>>184600>you are giving off a weak loser aura of someone they can step on
Turns out stepping on them feels even worse.>>184604
Yeah, remember that scene where the protagonist bump into some soldier on the street just to prove to himself he has the courage to not give way to people while using the sidewalk? In the end he feels just as bad because it is pointless. He was very right indeed.
You are either willfully misunderstanding what I say, or you do not know what 'archetypes' means.>>184604
I'm gonna download that shit right now. Thanks for reminding me about dostoevsky.>>184605
I think I understand, you're a misanthrope. I'm one too. This can be mitigated by a process, but I only know a few factors. I would appreciate some help with this.
1) Do not look at people who are worse than you, hobos, thugs, hedonists, manipulative people, and manipulated people. This is a very large slice of the population that you have to not think about, but if there is no one better than you around you, then look at the very best traits of the people around you and consider them separately and detached from the individual.
2) Humility. I don't really know how this works, but I've been told this is good against misanthropy.
Like I said, I'd like to not become a misanthrope, if anyone has any ideas, I'm open to it.
And yea, a 'system' or how I defined it for myself, having a goal I want to achieve at any and all cost is probably not for everyone. Goodnight folks, I'm going to bed
>>184606>You are either willfully misunderstanding what I say, or you do not know what 'archetypes' means.
now you are just coping. i already told you that making shit up is just silly. ill make you some archetypes. there is everybody else: mindless, unthinking, and unfeeling. then there is me: enlightened, virtuous, and the ideal everybody else should all strive to be.
>>184602>and this is who, through snot pouring out of your nose, through "I can't" and "I don't want to", you must become.
I’m in agreement with the other guy here, honestly. It ultimately (when pushed to the logical conclusion) comes down to value of human life. If you live only for your immediate gratification and base pleasure you are not only potentially harming other people in the process but yourself as well, you may be barring future possibilities of greater fulfillment and joy than whatever ape brain shit you wanted to do in the moment. It’s really down to the individual though, because outside of personal and external consequence to your actions you’re right that it literally does not matter, I don’t believe there is any greater judgement beyond what may become lasting consequences for the rest of all life, i.e terrorism won’t send you to hell but it’ll fuck up the lives of everyone else. Everyone has the capacity to do this, it’s an individual’s choice if they want to make the lives of others consist of more suffering than is inevitable already, and this applies to things like being an asshole to a stranger as much as it does the terrorism example.
Also I don’t know about this guy but I don’t view myself as perfect or holy or pure for making a conscious effort to be a decent person. I’m human as everybody else, I have this same capacity and at times even desire to cause harm, the decision to not be a malignant blight in other’s lives is a constant process consisting of infinite choices being made at all times. OP had never intentionally made someone’s life harder before making that one individual choice he did. Consistently choosing mindless hedonism over being a decent person will likely make me think you’re weak-willed and stupid but I’d see the same capacity for choice in everyone including myself.
>>184629>If you live only for your immediate gratification and base pleasure
Straw man. See>>184596
I don’t agree with literally any of the beliefs listed in this post and I’ll spit out a whole book as to why for each of them if that’s what you want.
If you are op, then your previous posts disagree
Not OP and new to this thread. I’m aware I sound similar to like 3 different people in here though. I find the choice between hedonism and morality when morality ultimately means nothing interesting and I’m genuinely open to arguments that we should just act like shit-flinging apes all the time, it would certainly make life easier.