I can’t imagine having sex with another person. I watch porn and masturbate, but I just can’t grasp how anyone could ever be willing to have sex with another person. And I hear about all this casual sex, only fans, tinder, etc. and just can’t comprehend it. I just can’t trust anyone enough to be naked around them, let alone let them touch the most sensitive parts of my body.
I am gay so I never could picture myself in any kind of normal life, definitely not being with a succubus. The only "normal" thing I could do out there would be sex, and I hate going outside or interacting with people. I would need to be a completely difference person from what I am to even want to be a normalfag. I just want to sit in my room and play video games and work on my hobbies, nothing else interests me, I haven't even watched porn in like 5 years.
No because I have always been treated differently. I have never been esteemed or loved my whole life in any interaction with someone, so by induction I can see its not happening. I have to make myself remember that we are all the same species because I am treated so differently you wouldn't even be able to tell. It's a different world that I live in. My experiences are unparalleled.
whenever i try, i remember i am unable to stand succubi, they are sweet on the surface kind of like this image attempts to convey, but then they open their mouth and the illusion is shattered
I’ve only ever met one (1, uno, 一) succubus who has been truly sweet and kind.
she will get old and lose it, being rounded by cats of varying colors in a messy home
Possibly. She’s older than me and doesn’t have any kids or a husband, so she could possibly turn into a cat lady.
I can't picture myself being naked with a succubus. The sheer embarrassment, combined with my social and physical awkwardness would make sex impossible. Even talking about it I don't think I could handle. And just the act of sex is revolting to me. It's slimy and gooey and vagis are horrific to look at.
I could never work for the sake of another human being, other than small odd jobs for my parents. I barely have enough energy to sustain myself, let alone more human beings. Not that I would want to even if I could, because I have never met a female who I felt compatible enough in any way to care about them, and I hate children.
I would be the most boring person to live with. Nowadays in my parents house, I go weeks without talking to them; only saying hello if I encounter them on the way down to the kitchen. I have lost the ability to casually talk to people. Whenever I'm forced to be around people I'm nothing more than a lingering presence, an elephant in the room. When I worked retail in a small shop with one colleague, we would go the full six hours not having a single conversation. He would say something and I would just got "heh", or "huh". Or say yes and no. You could tell he resented having to work with me because he would get vindictive over the smallest of shit. This is how most normans have reacted to me throughout my whole life. Confusion, then annoyance, then hatred.
>>186269>Can you imagine yourself having a girlfriend or even wife and kids?
not reall, I can imagine having a friend I love who is female and that is fine but not in a romantic sense unless they see it romantic to suicide together.
I see no appeal to be with a succubus romanrtically, succubus for all their good are a headache with rtheir bickering. seual stimulation is hardly worth the pain involved with them.
i don't want to be in a relationship
but for sake of contributing to this thread, i can imagine an alternate life where my life was "on rails" and i never became so averse to socializing and human interaction. e.g. live in a single home for my entire childhood without moving, grow up in some country where they do arranged marriages, somehow live next to the person they are marrying me to so i would've already known them my entire life, never experience any negative social events and be surrounded with positive and kind people, have good parents, etc
or maybe in the past, hundreds of years ago. i really wonder how i would occupy my time without computers or the internet, especially if i couldn't even read and if i was just some lowly rural villager
i can picture it under impossible circumstances where my life plays out under completely different scenarios. i cannot picture it for my current life however
No honestly I can’t imagine being normal.I’m true diagnosed schizoid and romantic relationship is repulsive and unnatural to me even imagining that gives me extreme cringe.My brain don’t works like those of normals I guess.
I'm fine with never having sex in my life. However it saddens me that I will never start a family. I havent interacted with succubi for half a decade, ever since I finished high school. I'm not interested in interacting with human succubi — I'm a furry, what I'm attracted to does not exist.
You as well ask me to be a completely different person.You think 3 decades of being like this will go away cause some random cunt and some kids?
People way more stable than me tried the family man thing and ended getting fucked.
Also, doesn't something horrible happens to the people on the OP?
IIRC the mom dies but that’s about it.
this is some age old cope, succubi have cats because they like them not because they cant get with a man (they could if they wanted, they prefer not to)
notice how i said nothing about whether she will be married or not, it is because it is irrelevant
why are you mad?
The Mom (Nagisa) dies but in usual Key retardation and cheapening of feels she later revives with the help of some stupid light orbs or something so all your tears were for nothing.
What does this mean?
I'm saying I feel the same way he does.
No. Even when I was a child and everyone else talked about the future in which they were married and had children I could not fathom a future like that for myself. Whenever I pictured the future it involved me mindlessly slaving in some office job or doing something related to trading cards and then going home to an empty house where I would keep exotic reptiles.
Even when I was highschool age and my family would pick on me about getting girlfriends and what not I would sort of play dumb because I couldn't see myself in a relationship and having to be that close to another person.
Not once did I ever picture that as a possibility. I was never interested in that sort of thing, no desire for relationship at all.
Of course when I was a kid I thought I wanted that, because I was told that I wanted it, but once I started thinking about it I realized I didn't care.
Older wiz here.I picture the ideal wife and kid scenario a lot, often thinking about it more than just sex and entertainment like groids do but actually passing down my genes, knowledge and lineage to an offspring. For the sake of wizchan this wife I picture of course is better off being a robot, cyborg, or humanoid android that could incubate an offspring that we can raise together. I think I'm at a point where nothing I gain or do would be beneficial to me anymore since I've experienced pretty much everything by now and so the only thing left would be to pass down my teachings and raise an ubermensch designed to take on this hellish world. I would blackpill the shit out of him and teach him survivalist shit so he has a leg to stand on, unlike the figure out yourself and left alone like my parents did.
>>186301>However it saddens me that I will never start a family
Then you are not wizard, but failed normalfag.
>>186352>>186352>pass down my teachings and raise an ubermensch designed to take on this hellish world. I would blackpill the shit out of him and teach him survivalist shit
and he will hate you for that
He won't because he will have a leg to stand on and also be immune to propaganda bullshit that's brainwashing youth.
He will think you are an asshole and then rebel after you get bored and realize your fantasy is not how reality works. You sound pretty stupid for an "older wiz", still living in make-believe fairy land where everything goes your way for no reason other than a fleeting whim.
you are straight up retarded if you think you can pass down your wisdom via teaching them. The only way to actually learn anything is from having experiences and leading yourself there.
why would you want to start a family? I want to be left the fuck alone.
>>186411>He will think you are an asshole and then rebel after you get bored and realize your fantasy is not how reality works
No he won't, and my fantasy is exactly how reality works because it's not going to be sugarcoated with bullshit.>You sound pretty stupid for an "older wiz", still living in make-believe fairy land where everything goes your way for no reason other than a fleeting whim
Nice projection there, you have nothing to offer besides crab bitterness though so fuck off.>>186412
Another retard projecting. Let me guess your parents never taught you anything?
>>186414>my fantasy is exactly how reality works>it's not going to be sugarcoated
You already sugarcoated it in your previous posts retard, not being bitter. You're just clearly naive to think you, a mentally ill fuckup retard like the rest of us, can successfully raise a kid. Maybe join the long line of normalfags who think they can raise the perfect kid too until it turns into a tranny or whatever's currently cool
Being sufficiently blackpilled about Jews, MSM, megacorps and Rothchilds, big pharma, Bavarian Grove world elite meetings, skull shapes and racism etc, the big psych-jew fraud will be enough to keep your kid level headed and not turn into a tranny. Survival skills will be there as a crutch in case it all goes nuclear. Normalfags make the mistake of thinking they need to let their kid learn by themselves through experience are delusional and coping with the just-world fallacy. It is the worst possible thing to let a kid decide who they want to be because they aren't sentient or self-aware until at least mid-late teens, which by then most kids are already brainwashed by public schools and MSM to be a soycuck beta nigger worshipper that turns into a tranny.
>>186416>all those empty meme buzzwords
Yeah, if you had a kid he would be a fuckup that hates you for sure
I mean, this is what I would expect from a wizard trying to parent lmao
I can't even imagine myself interacting with anime gurls, let alone having a "waifu". It's just so, so alien to me. If I think about what a plausible interaction with one of them would be like, I can only conclude these succubi would either avoid me out of disgust, ignore me out of disdain, or run away in fear (like real succubi do).
This has, of course, led to a general feeling of alienation towards otaku – not just animanga fans, but idol otaku as well. Lining up for a handshake from your oshi and sustaining onself off the perceived goodwill and purity of an idol is harmless fantasy, to be sure, but it is fantasy nonetheless. I'm starting to think I just have a really underdeveloped/starved imagination, or a nonexistent inner life. It is unfortunate that I cannot even submerge myself in fantasies, like the normalfags accuse all of us outcast-types of doing.
>>186416>It is the worst possible thing to let a kid decide who they want to be because they aren't sentient or self-aware
You have revealed yourself to be but another ideologue looking to fill these young, blank slates with your own ideas.
>which by then most kids are already brainwashed by public schools and MSM
And now you're just angry that they got to them first.
Hell NO! Sounds boring as fuck. I mean, really, what is there to enjoy about having a family? Even if we lived in an era where men were the bosses it wouldn't interest me, it is not a question of feminism or degeneracy, I simply don't want to live with others, I don't want to take responsibility and I certainly don't want to financially support parasites like kids and a wife. Having a family, marriage, having a gf, these are the biggest memes in the world. Normals are dumb and they follow the trend without questions. Pretty pathetic.
No. I'm built different, something went wrong during dna coding and I was born rather than a standard normalfag. Pretty sure that's the case for most of us here. Even wizards born and raised by a good wealthy and normal family ended up being here anyways, it's just not meant for us.
I could but they would have to understand what kind of person I am. I don't care about fitting in or socializing I just want somewhere to live in peace, and have marijuana.
I mean thats exactly it. Most succubi want a rich/sexy guy, once acquiring that, they will stay with them. The rest of the guys can only get faithful ugly succubi bcuz these succubi know they can't get a rich/handsome man.
It's very sad to me that the concept of love has been extinguished in the modern world.
How many marriages were "love marriages" in ancient times? If anything, it matters too much
I think it's varied through history. In pre-civilization times, I think most "unions" were out of love (though mind you, love in itself is a bit of a utilitarian emotion, as typically positive traits are attractive). Once agriculture allowed politics and family lines to be more rigid, assigned marriages happened frequently. But in the 50s, class barriers were the lowest I think they have ever been in civilization. It more or less stayed that way until the 90s, where it has gradually gotten increasingly cynical again and fewer people marry out of love.
If you >play games>watch television>listen to most music>eat processed foods>act as a rebel>browse imageboards, internet, connected 24/7>work in generalizations>have emotional swings>have any addictions
You are, in fact, the cattle you despise and those who aren't laugh with pity
Feel free to add to the list
>>186471>Most succubi want a rich/sexy guy, once acquiring that, they will stay with them
Until a better guy comes along, then they'll monkey-branch.
Oh, and>believe in spooky ideas like Romance, Love, Friendship, Camaraderie, Justice, Benevolent God, Scientism, selflessness>give any thoughts at all to the opposite sex>whine>stuck in negative loops>can't think for yourself
>>186476>listen to most music
Most? So what is your idea of ubermenschen music?
Why would you even engage a retard of such proportions?
if you're listening to music 24/7 without appreciating it is the better way to put it
The reason I said >listen to most music
at first post was because most music out there can put you in a sleeper state mode, detach you from reality if you let it wash over you. Music ought to compliment the inner realities you have, not substitute them>>186480
which part did you disagree with? :)
Gut feeling curiosity>>186481>Music ought to compliment the inner realities you have, not substitute them
So ambient and any easy listening music are shit in your book, that is still vague, give me the name of the genre(s) you consider good.
Not in the slightest, I've taken a young cousin under my wing and through that I've realized just how hard it is to really raise a child let alone a family or anything such as that. The cost, the time sink all that sort of stuff adds up and this is from a volunteer perspective.
Can confirm. I'm cattle.
The very idea makes me want to puke.
I imagine it, i have to not have defects that i have, but if you look,i have parents who consider themselves as normalfags and all they children are disabled. The world is too risky.
Not since I had a younger brother as a teenager.
1.) Shitty outsider meme.
2.) Your parents forced you to go to college? I’m curious as to how they did this.
3.) Said outsider meme is inaccurate. I’m autistic and I’m highly intelligent. My brain is also not one of those children’s slide toys, I don’t think.
1) I saw it while randomly browsing 4chan's /pol/ and thought this is a funny and somewhat accurate comparison (I'm officially diagnosed schizoid).
2) Constant nagging + financial pressure + I'm too lazy to leave them and start my own life so I complied + my country (Russia) has 1 year conscription for males between ages of 18-27 who aren't in college so it was either college or conscription for me (although Russia doesn't send conscripts to wars anymore but it is still unpleasant exoerience considering low discipline and fights between soldiers). Later I got a medical exemption after college at age 22 but I didn't know it when I just turned 18.
3) I don't think this meme was meant to insult, it's just semi-humorous. I think it means it points to autists' repetitive behaviour in such allegorical way (same with schizohrenics' distorted mind, schizoids' self-sufficiency and detachment from other humans, sociopaths and psychopaths' lack of empathy and viewing other people merely as tools to achieve their goals).
Also, I had no idea wojaks are forbidden here because it's not in the rules. OK, I'll know it now.
I have a friendly suggest of putting it in the rules then. Because both frogs and wojaks are fairly popular memes and new people have no idea they are not welcomed here because it's not in the rules.
*the memes, not the people
it is in the rules, read them better
Pretty sure I'm still an adult virgin. That's what "wizard" means, not an anime appreciator, not a recidivist of reclusion, and not a neurodivergent nerd
Normalfag no. Having a wife and children yeah. That doesnt Make you a normalfag though. Being a cattle who behaves in a certain way and believes everything MSM says makes you a normie
Wrong. Being able to mate and have children makes you a normalfag, because only people who fit in with mainstream society to some degree are capable of this. True outsiders can't get gfs or wives.
there is more to being a normalfag than simply being in a relationship or having kids. that sounds like crab talk
No, that is actually the definition of a normalfag. It's always been this way, if you are capable of getting a wo-man then you don't belong here. No matter how 'weird' someone is, if he can get a wife or gf then he is a normalfag of some kind.
what definition? on urbandictionary? wizchan's definition is different. popular usage meaning simply 'popular' or mainstream is also different. they all generally refer to the opposite or outsider/unpopular people
when i go outside and look at people, they are all normalfags to me. do i know they are in a relationship or have kids? no and most probably don't, yet from their lifestyle and behavior i have no problem thinking of them as normalfags
I can imagine it, and it's horrible. It's basically being a slave in service of social etiquette and succubi's expectations and desires, motivated by lust and a desperate need to not be lonely. I don't feel the lack that is necessary to motivate a normalfag into staying a normalfag, and I already feel burdened and bound up enough as it is by my basic needs and the necessity of money.
> Can you even picture yourself as a normalfag?
Tried but got bored and added super powers and terrorist enhanced with nano machines n shit.
>Can you imagine yourself having a girlfriend or even wife and kids?
Sort of but again I get bored and start adding fantasy shit and they just become plot devices.
Like that I was a former supersoldier and my wife was a retired assassin and some generic evil organization stole our kid due to having ultra killer genes or whatever. So we had to kill the shit out of them all before the finished brainwashing our kid into the ultimate killing machine.
Yeah I daydream in action movies. It's my mind, I do what I want.
Normal everyday relationshit stuff is beyond boring. If I am horny I can imagine I single handedly destroyed the demon lord's army and he starts throwing bitches at me to slow my progress and poison me or some shit when I let my guard down. Only it doesn't work because I bang them on the way and convert the to the side of good and justice through the holy light of organisms or some similar hentai shit.
Then kick the demon lord's ass personally in a fight that threatens to rip time and space due to how intense it is. Like blowing apart mountain with punches and shifting the sea with spells.
Again why would I imagine a boring normal life when I could imagine anything within my comprehension?
>Tried but got bored and added super powers and terrorist enhanced with nano machines n shit.
I fucking hope none of you /pol/tards ever have kids, the world is already fucked up as it it without people like you screeching about "DAA JOOOS" 24/7.
>>188545>I hope you (n)ever have kids
Well that just means he can probably stay on Wizchan for longer so you've just invited him to post more about the truth here.>Anyone parroting the mainstream narrative that Jews are fulfilling what's outlined in the Talmud by undermining goyim is from a single fringe board on a single anonymous fringe site
Cope in its purest form. Grandpas who never even used a computer are just as likely to be aware of the world's problems than someone familiar with /pol/. You couldn't even be mellow about it and just call him a retard or provide any counter-argument, instead you just angrily swore, wished him ill, and the wrote "the Jews" as "DA JOOOS". What an own!
I would have to be a very different person or live in a very different world for it to possible.
why is this garbage thread still up? at the very least move to /lounge/.
Are you a low iq deformed <5'4 truecel though? If you arent Then its possible For you to find a gf
These 2 basically I’m not born to be a normal and never will be a normal its against my character and my dna
Regarding any kind of definition. I honestly don't know what you try to accomplish by saying that having sex or having a wife doesn't make you a normal. When it is the requirement for being normal, along with having friends. Come on, go up to these so called weird people and tell them you are a male virgin with zero friends (assuming you really are one of us). They will laugh at you and mock you, even the weirdest people will find you strange. Why? Because wizards are 0.0001% or so of the population. No matter what strange or quirky subculture you turn to, be it nazis, or religious nuts, you will find normalfags (people who had sex and have friends) EVERYWHERE aside from here. That is why we have this whole fucking site in the first place, to shut out all the normalfag hordes, including the weird normals you would let post here freely about how they just had sex. Fuck off, you dense retard.
>do i know they are in a relationship or have kids? no and most probably don't
What? It's not about being in a relationship currently or having kids, if you had sex, if you could get someone to fuck you then you don't belong here. Simple as that. People who had sex and have friends are entirely different from us.>>188556
Yeah, I'm sure it is possible for everyone to find a fat, ugly succubus but what is the use in that? If you don't enjoy something then why do it? Normals only do it, I mean they only fuck ugly fat succubi and marry them because they are desperate to fit in.
Nope. I've tried to be a normal person, but in the end, i can't, i will never can, and that's fine, now i accept myself and i'm happy
good luck wizy
No I cannot.
Making friend is extremely hard for me, getting a gf is just an arcane knowledge at this point.
Some things just weren't meant for me.
I'm an apprentice wizard and I think there's just something fundamentally wrong with me. I am able to put on a convincing mask of being a sociable guy, even to the point where I can attract succubi sometimes. However I have no desire to have any relationship with any of them. The thought of having sex or a relationship, of letting someone that close to me is terrifying. I don't even pursue friendships. It's not as if I'm gay or asexual, I can recognize the sexyness of a succubus but there's a disconnect between noticing it, being aroused by it and having any desire to pursue it. I've barely left my house since covid started and I've been so much happier than trying to keep up the mask of caring about normies. I love just being alone. No amount of human contact is more fun or desirable than simply sitting in my room watching youtube or playing games. I'm in college taking online classes for a degree in accounting in my moms house and just want to get some easy government job where I get enough money to live alone and spend on games and shit without worrying about it. In short I tried being a normie but have literally no desire to and I would much prefer to live out my life in relative solitude.
i could but the succubus would have to understand that i have different values from "normal" people. i'm a sentamental person and if something doesn't have value to me i won't do it. don't care about fitting in either.
dude lol we are similar. i always knew i'd be alone too and at one point wanted a room full of reptiles. i don't anymore because i stopped caring. at this point i'd just grow weed.
you cant choose how your child will be. its totally random. they might hate you or love you. its a gamble.
yep, even normalfags have kids that are total fuck ups. its a big gamble.
lol exactly. all that getting married and having kids does is make the male a slave. slave to wife, job and kids. they are so dumb to not notice this.
I had this hammered home for me by having a mentally disabled sibling financially dependent on me for a while. You are willing to put up with so much more shit and tolerate the worst jobs when you’re not the one that will be suffering otherwise. That’s why companies favor employees with families. They know they’ll be total slaves. Even if I were socially capable of it it really soured me on the idea of a family.
normalfags only do that because they want to maintain a positive image of life. they know it sucks like we do but they won't admit it. truly people who live in denial.
Sometimes I think about it and then it occurs to me that I'd be around someone 24/7 and holy fuck that sounds exhausting.
I have a normie sister. She tells me that, if you like the person enough, it doesn't matter that you're around them all day everyday. I can only believe her having no experience.
normies don't mind having ppl in their lives but asocial wizards like us would find it intolerable
Living with a succubus who constantly judges you and shit test you must be hell. I live in an apartment complex and I can hear couples fighting all the time over the most insignificant shit like forgetting to wash the dishes or take out the trash. The only reason why men put up with all the bullshit succubi give them is because of their smelly vagina. That's why I remain a virgin to this day, even when I literally live in whore island and could go to the nearest whorehouse to fuck hookers for the price of a McDonalds meal. As soon as a man puts his penis inside a vagina he gets enthralled and for the rest of his life he will become a slave that will do anything for a succubus to get his next fix of pussy, sometimes even risking his own life.
In my experience, femoids have a natural tendency towards hypersocialization. Therefore, most females would have an opinion similar to that of your sister, whether or not they like the person they're with or not.
As can be readily observed, the modern female is typically so hungry for male validation that she will put up with a milquetoast or even abusive relationship if it results in social attention and/or financial benefit from her boyfriend/husband. This also explains the feminine tendency towards romantic and sexual infidelity.
>>186728>although Russia doesn't send conscripts to wars anymore
you jinxed it
I don't know if could I ever accept having kids. Otherwise it's ok.
I did not. Since the Second Chechen war, by law, Russia can only send volunteers to fight. No conscripts were sent to either Syria or Ukraine. Although I imagine that some conscripts MAY have been forced to sign military contract…
I don't support this war with Ukraine btw.
>>189331>what is corruption
Stop being so naive and retarded, its fucking russia.
>>189353>Average wizchan poster knows more about russia than an actual russian.
this place never dissapoints.
Not now. I guess this will put me on the failed normie spectrum but i was trying to fix my shit up and then covid leg swept the fuck out of me and brought me crashing back down to reality. I'm turing 31 this year, virgin, my hair is starting to fall out, i've been working the same dead end job for a decade, still living with parents, my body looks absolutely grotesque when nude, even at my fittest i was still skinny fat with gyno and a hannah gadsby-tier waist/ass. Not to mention how the poison from my psyche is now a permanent fixture of whats left of my personality. A passionless drone with no future or friends. I can't even adequately communicate with people anymore.
The worst part is that i never really wanted kids (a girlfriend maybe) but i'm now actually some kind of farther figure. My dogshit sister has had two kids to two seperate men that aren't around and i'm the "adult" male figure in their lives. I feel for the poor kids but I just want to be free from everyone but it looks like i'm going to be stuck in normie limbo and spend the rest of my life as the human equivalent of furniture until i snap and kill myself (if ever).
No, I'm a truecel-teir subhuman and I am literally too dysgenic to leave the house. I'm so ugly I live in fear of being falsely accused of being a paedophile due to my ghoulish appearance and lynched by normalfags. I'm looking into posions to exit with.
I know what corruption is, I have been living in Russia since birth (I'm in my early twenties). I said in the post that I agree that SOME of conscripts might have been forced to sign contract to be allowed to be legally sent to war.
Normalfags actually work all day and then after they're done working, they go do more shit instead of just laying there recuperating. I can't even imagine what it must be like to just do so much stuff. Like how do you do so much damn stuff and know so many people? It boggles my mind I can't even conceptualize what it would be like to be someone who is always "busy" like 90% of normalfags.
It’s exactly what you need, discipline.
Many, many normalfags blob out after work in front of the TV and just watch junk with their partner. If normalfags do have hobbies, it's typically a one or two days of the week thing. It's basically only sport as well, not many normalfags do shit like play an instrument.
yeah i think what >>191194
said is right. the hyper productive tweaked out normans who are constantly doing shit are probably just overrepresented because they obviously derive some sort of benefit from being so active and so they are more visible
this is just a gut feeling but it seems to me "love" was more of a duty in the past, just like "believing" in a aspecific god was, in general you had a duty to be what society expected from you both in body and mind. Now both are abandonded because people expect love and belief to come to them or be something they find rather than something they make and force upon themselves.
>>191201>>191201>it seems to me "love" was more of a duty in the past, just like "believing" in a aspecific god was, in general you had a duty to be what society expected from you both in body and mind
If that's all that love and belief are (I don't believe so but hypothetically speaking) then I think it's much better that one lives faithless and loveless.
Love in ancient times:
- for males: "I want attractive succubi"
- for females: "I want a strong man who can protect me and bring home lots of food and resources for me and my children"
- for males: "I want attractive succubi"
- for females: "I want a strong man who can protect me and bring home lots of money for me and my children"
Not much has changed.
According to reality it is love. Anime and literature are another thing.
I can't even imagine myself in a month
[Last 50 Posts]
Well now i have to read this.