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 No.189868[Last 50 Posts]

After hanging out around here for probably too long, and continuing to watch anime, etc., there are a number of pieces of cultural media, fora, and movements that appear to be coalescing together into the same idea that I wanted to point out. In particular, I've been looking at:

- This forum
- "Herbivore men" in Japan
- "Aroace" in certain Western circles
- The fo xi or Tang ping or "Lying Flat" movement in China
- The "Sampo Generation" in South Korea
- Freeters
- Kobayashi's Dragon Maid
- Isekai genre -> Iyashikei genre

I'm going to start with the latter items first, because there's an interesting aspect of the Isekai genre that I don't think is noted upon, and is easier for me to note when I point out the Kobayashi franchise. Kobayashi _could_ exercise extreme amounts of power, and accumulate a lot more than she has. E.g., at any point she could've asked Tohru for a shitton of gold or to start conquering shit for her. However, she recognizes the problems in doing so, and she doesn't want to. And this also seems to be a theme in a lot of the isekai genre. E.g., that "I maxed out my level" show. She _could_ conquer the world if she wanted to, but if anything she wants the exact opposite of that. A lot of the time, Isekai characters tend to be OP Mary Sues that don't end up being Mary Sues because they refuse to use the full extent of their abilities. They're characters that want to be left alone, and just want to be able to enjoy life, ffs. In this way, a lot of the Isekai genre appear to be Iyashikei in disguise. YKK is a classic Iyashikei anime where although the mc might not be all-powerful, she shares a lot of the same goals and aspirations, and she definitely has the ability to be a lot wealthier; but her desires are much less than this. All she wants is an idyllic life.

A lot of the generational movements I've listed above have the same themes. Yeah, you _could_ work a lot more, climb corporate ladders, conquer, etc.. But why would you do that when you realize that what you want is so much less than what those lifestyles offer? Marriage and kids? For what? Should one be a STEM meme degree holder earning $100k/y in a city with $90k costs and a debt of hundreds of thousands, or a wagie getting $20k/y in Bumfuck, Iowa with $10k costs and no debt (please understand I'm exaggerating the memes a bit for humor's sake)? They all point out the trappings of life with no benefit. It appears to be pointing out a contradiction in goals versus actions of the previous generations.

I know one conclusion is the 'antiwork' movement. However, this seems different than the antiwork culture, because it's more generally pointing out erroneous goals. I can see a lot of "Buddhist" themes as well, but I don't think that's it either. Buddhism is about throwing away Earthly desires, this seems to be more pointing out "Why would you even desire those things in the first place?" Put together, it seems to me like this confluence of cultural artifacts seem to be coalescing around an idea of anti-ambitionism. About how being "ambitious" as it's currently culturally defined, doesn't really seem to give one anything one would really want, anyways.


I’m not “anti-ambitious” like you said with that movements, I’m a genuine loser with no skill,intelligence, talent or strength.I just have nothing worthy in me.


You don't have to be useful, no virtue is required. You didn't choose to be born and this world has nothing to do with you. You deserve to live and be comfy, like all people.

Life is chaotic, unfair, ripe with unnecessary suffering. There simply is no need anymore for mindless labor no one really cares about, we are transitioning; technology and culture changes too fast for legislature and social structure.


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Is interesting how all of this is happening nowadays, has this always been like this or is a new thing?.
Is nice that this approach is taken by a large number of people, but these times are wild and i wonder if the people opting to give up in numerous contries will be a recipe for disaster.
With elites importing inmigrants into first world countries while making life even harder for everyone in all senses, with the potential reactionaries just living on the hidin' then i believe that countries will start to fall apart.
Those new anti-ambitionism movements seem to be a move staged by elites, to be honest.


>Those new anti-ambitionism movements seem to be a move staged by elites, to be honest.
I entertained this for a few minutes, but I can't see it. The elites modus operandi is typically to push everything at practically the same time. E.g., Gamergate. Furthermore, this appears homebrew just because a lot of these movements are:
1 - Spread out from each other.
2 - Are viciously attacked by the elites (e.g., check out what MSM in South Korea or Japan or China say about their respective movements).


We can't really get into a definitive synthesis because those people are just taking it easy.
We should wait to see what happens.


Coincidentally been watching Yokohama again the last couple days. Sorry I have nothing else to add to your thread right now.


Those attacks agaisnt the movement may be artificial opposition


should i jack off right now?


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There's a lot of competence these days (rat race), and people just want a normal life, with normal jobs and normal people, without worries.
We have the technology or the capability of developing that technology, say, automated towns, why one has to worry about things like wagecucking. We should be focusing instead in surrogate, intelectual activities.
We will retreat to our towers to learn and improve knowledge about magic!
Such things as automatization will surely make life easier, for the win!, i hope.


Wow, fantastic post wizzie. It really does seem like a lot of people are realising all these desires and struggles are futile. A generation of people slowing down and taking it easy.


Interesting, I found this related article about recent trends of people quitting their jobs in the West.



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Finally the NEET revolution has begun.


Normals would never dare to recognise what im going to say, but its true.

After certain level of philosophical introspection, education and culture, a person becomes inherently antinatalist.

This is the reason why developed nations do not have children. Its not the economical factor, its that people deep inside know that it is not worth it. Of course most people are hypocrites, so they always will try to ignore this feeling.


What are the core values and tenets of this global slacker/NEET/anti-ambition movement?


It's not global, just an US thing.
Neets in japan has been a thing since the late 80s tho, for obvious reasons


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"The Great Resignation" is one of those things I want to believe in, but when you look at the data, it just doesn't make sense. I mean, just look at some of the graphs on that Wikipedia article you linked. It doesn't even seem noticeable except on very small margins. E.g., picrel shows that it may be a local maxima, but it certainly doesn't seem like a global maximum even. It almost seems more like major corporations are so desperate for cheap labor (because of an increase in openings, not a decrease in personnel) that they pushed their MSM partners to push this story to rob potential staff from small businesses.


Here in south Italy the idea of the "menefreghista" is very culturally engrained and describes bascially the same human character you point to: a guy that doesen't care (se ne frega in local tongue hence the name) about ambition, expectations, or even what lies beyond his little town and constantly tries to cut corners. They are also famous for avoiding taxes and getting away with it, or escaping to South America where (supposedly!) less people bother them. During these last few years a lot more people like this have been cropping up, mainly due to how the south was ravaged by our globalist economy. It's not even close to being a movement, but I bring it up because it's an useful adjective.

At any rate menefreghista-like figures are popping up everywhere, even here many young people are NEETs and there is even a small Hikikomori epidemic. I think it's a symptom of the coming collapse of the West. Why care and go the extra mile when a spit on the face and a kick in the balls is all you'll get out of it? Besides, more money and big city make a man free to do… what? Consume more is about the only answer I have.

Since the ground is giving way, why should a menefreghista derive pleasure from consumption? He has his own ways of wasting time. I don't know what the future holds for these movevements, but they are interesting for sure. Much of it is contingent on what happens to the elite after they die out or are replaced somehow. Tech also ties into it - uncle Ted and all that. I do believe a sense of finality hangs thick in the air, but if it's the end of a cycle of the end times I am not sure. Whatever the case I hope we make it.




When it comes to ambition, I think I actually possess much more than the average normalfag if anything. It's the normals who don't want much from life, they are okay wageslaving all their life. They are okay with having a family. They are okay with the "normal scenario".

Me? The will to power is too strong in me. I don't care about shitty family life or working some stupid job. I feel like I'm too big and society wants to shove me into some little box because most people are small, so to speak.

Working is a drug of its own kind, it is the true opium of the masses. People praise work because it dumbs you, numbs you, takes away your soul, energy, vitality, ambitions, dreams and gives you some kind of nirvana. It pacifies people, makes sure they are tired and occupied constantly so they won't cause any trouble to the system. If you don't work, then on my god, maybe…you will actually..*gasp*live? We can't have that, you can't think for yourself, you can't be different, you can't contemplate the nature of existence, you better get back to that warehouse job and make sure you breed when you don't work, 'kay? Family and work, the two biggest distractions and copes in life.

"The eulogists of work. Behind the glorification of 'work' and the tireless talk of the 'blessings of work' I find the same thought as behind the praise of impersonal activity for the public benefit: the fear of everything individual. At bottom, one now feels when confronted with work—and what is invariably meant is relentless industry from early till late—that such work is the best police, that it keeps everybody in harness and powerfully obstructs the development of reason, of covetousness, of the desire for independence. For it uses up a tremendous amount of nervous energy and takes it away from reflection, brooding, dreaming, worry, love, and hatred; it always sets a small goal before one's eyes and permits easy and regular satisfactions. In that way a society in which the members continually work hard will have more security: and security is now adored as the supreme goddess" - Nietzsche


>Besides, more money and big city make a man free to do… what?
I'm surprised more people haven't come to this realization.
I'm surprised there isn't a bunch of news articles and Wikipedia pages on this. Nice post.
I don't think these movements even have to go so far as antiwork or talking about wageslaving. For example, the derision that freeters get, or that rural workers get. They're working. They're fine with working. They're not antiwork, but they see a different aspect of life that's completely wack.


>>In our time it is fashionable to exalt work of whatever sort and no matter how it is accomplished, as if it had some superlative value in itself independently of any consideration of another order. This has been the subject of innumerable pronouncements as empty as they are pompous, not only in the profane world but, what is more serious, even in the initiatic organizations remaining in the West. It is easy to understand that this way of envisaging things is directly linked to the exaggerated need for action that characterizes modern Westerners; work, at least when so considered, is obviously nothing but a form of action, and a form to which the 'moralist' prejudice is bound to attribute more importance than to any other because it more easily lends itself to being presented as a 'duty' for man and as ensuring his 'dignity'. Added to this there is usually a clearly anti-traditional motive, namely the depreciation of contemplation, which is assimilated to idleness, whereas on the contrary it is really the highest activity conceivable, and whereas further, action separated from contemplation can only be blind and disordered. All of this only too easily accounts for those who declare, no doubt sincerely, that 'their happiness lies in action' itself; we would rather say in 'agitation', for once action is thus taken for an end in itself, whatever the 'moralist' pretexts invoked to justify it, it is truly nothing more than that.
>Contrary to what the moderns think, any work that is done indiscriminately by anyone solely for the pleasure of acting or because of the need to 'earn one's living' hardly merits being exalted, and indeed it can only be regarded as something abnormal, opposed to the order that ought to regulate human institutions, to such a point that, in the conditions of our age, it only too often acquires a character that without any exaggeration qualifies as 'infra-human'.

This is a little citation from René Guenón, might be interesting for some wizzies here.


Great thread, But what're we expecting from Society/Government? Are we expecting support from them? Why should they help us out when we are not contributing anything of value to them?. It's easy for people who got lucked out and inherited some money, Which I have not and will have to work to eat and stay indoors. I'm miserable most times of the day
I would love to be a NEET but I don't have a choice. Throw some wizdom my way brothers!!!


>But what're we expecting from Society/Government? Are we expecting support from them? Why should they help us out when we are not contributing anything of value to them?
this rests on the idea of there being a mutual contract, but you could easily imagine a paternal or theocratic alternative that makes no such demands of its people


>But what're we expecting from Society/Government? Are we expecting support from them? Why should they help us out when we are not contributing anything of value to them?

Because we are all brothers and part of the human species? From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Some people can't contribute visibly to society. Some like us are better left to ourserlves, pondering things. Also it's not us individuals who owe society, it is society and our rulers that owe us things. After all why do we have a society or government if they don't help us out? It is literally the job of the state to take care of people.


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(Speaking about the general "eh whatever I'll just enjoy life day to day" culture not just a few neets) The benefits do not outweigh the work anymore. Older people still believe the system works like it did back in the day, so they push for study and work hard, and refuse to listen to the younger generations about how it HAS changed. They also did not have their souls and will broken with media. They were raised in a healthy environment (physically mentally and spiritually). I believe these differences are what created these pockets of lying flat. Younger people have realized that they are not only feeding the system with their sweat, but with their suffering too. It is better to live a short life at peace with your family, sometimes starving, than suffer a long life with nothing to gain. The only way to win a rigged game is not to play at all. This makes the tops and it's minions seethe, so they market it like a great failing/catastrophy.

It's not about money anymore, people want privacy and peace. Technology and industrial systems have become extremely hostile to people. Look at the sudden homesteading movement.


>Technology and industrial systems have become extremely hostile to people.
This reminded me of Ted books "The Industrial Revolution and its consequences "


we downlying, my wizza.


Men can tolerate absurd, abusive wageslavery as long as they have a family to support. Normalfaggots will put up with literal 19th century sweatshop conditions if it meant putting food on the table for their kids. Even if they have to drink to cope, come back yelling at their wife and start accumulating injuries, they'll stick at it if it means their wife, kids or parents can be looked after. But without that foundational reason, they'll start burning out and quitting. And on the other side of this, even many normalfaggots with a high paying job that's stress free, without a family to support or a reason to go on outside of work, will find all that privilege and status to be superfluous. Because they lost the reason men work, it's not just to support ourselves, it's to support other people.

Happiness is best shared with other people. Yes, all things held equal, being depressed and rich is better than being depressed and poor, but being isolated and rich is worse than having a reason for wageslavery and being poor. Frankly technology is the only reason we still have wageslavery in the first world, take away the netflix and the internet after work and the cold reality of an empty apartment will be too much for most normies and a good 33% will start dropping out of the workforce. Religion is said to be the opiate of the masses, but technology is the lubricant that keeps people functioning despite their social isolation.

Somewhere along the way we lost the reason for work. It became a place to find meaning instead of being grueling shit we do to provide for a wife and kids. The fact is no matter your job, if you go, they will replace you, someone else will be there, and you will be forgotten about. People can't say the same about your loved ones, if someone you care about dies you might never get past the trauma and there will always be that hole.


>my wizza.


Are you that glowie a few years back that ruined the thread a few wizards were trying to make a ren'py visual novel by continually trying to make it about a violent wizard uprising until you made everyone in the thread uninterested and killed the entire project single-handedly?


The only great VN novel produced by anons was Katawa Shoujo and that was a fluke. It's silly to expect people as idiosyncratic and individualistic as wizards to cooperate very well.


Yeah, I get it, but at the same time, this guy was over the fucking top. I just remember that guy pushing for some sort of violence at every conceivable step. It was really off-putting.


>visual novel novel
I'm really losing it.
I'd like to search the archives for this thread. Do you remember the specific board/time range?


>Technology and industrial systems have become extremely hostile to people
Technology will be the savior of our species. With robots and machines doing all kind of work humans can sit back and enjoy life actually.

Sex, succubi, the desire to fit in, children, competing with other males…these are all carrots on the stick before you. To trick you into wageslavery.


>Technology will be the savior of our species. With robots and machines doing all kind of work humans can sit back and enjoy life actually.
That's how it seemed 20 years, and it could be possible with a diferent political world culture, but I don't know how you could still see it as a possibility in 2022. We are set solidly and irreversibly on a path to a dystopia where most people are in poverty instead.


All I see is living conditions improving everywhere, literally. Well except for North Korea. Compared to even 100 years ago we came a long way, in a good sense. I have optimism about the future, if we will have problems they won't be related to technology, just like it was never about tech. Technology is neutral, it is a tool, people use it however they want to use it.


Only the individual can take technology by himself to save his future. Don't trust the industries, neither the gov, nor the world.
Actually, only those who possess patents can use technology while all else is an ignorant, powerless ignorant about technology.

>you have no savior then

>save yourself
>handle it by yourself
>or else

Wake tf up


it's truly incredible there are people who still believe this


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Does the picture rant deserve to get reposted?


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I won't post all of it, but enough to give some of the flavor.


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Kinda schizo, but I think he made his point.


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In this case, there's a lot of data to make the case for the other side.


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The guy's pictures I'm reposting was making an antinatalism statement, but I think the same graphs work well for this case.


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This kind of depressed me when I first saw these. They still do.


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I'm almost done, so I might as well finish out the set.


and yet quality of life and technology have improved tons since 1940, so maybe it wasn't a bad thing

we would rather have all the stuff we have today, than see a movie for a nickel with Grandpa Simpson


I can't even afford to move out and rent a shitty apartment while working just above minimum wage. You'd need to shack up with a friend or "partner" in order to split rent. Yet I still get blasted by NEETs living in NEET-friendly countries for having a job just to barely survive while they can afford to rent a place on NEETbux and never work a day in their life. What a joke this world has become.


What is funny is that all these graphs about price inflation coincides with Nixon decision in 1971 to stop the dollar gold exchange. Then in 1976, the dollar was officially no longer priced by gold.

That's what you get with paper money that can printed with no compensation.


This. All these graphs and statistics don't matter ultimately. The fact is we live in a much better era than people lived during any time prevously in history. Onward to the future.


Your second and third sentences contradict each other. Our parent's generation was wealthier than ours. THAT is the fact.


No graphs and statistics matter because life is always suffering, regardless of whether data says it's getting better or getting worse.


Most people used to be able to own a family farm. Just a few decades ago people could buy a home and land in a few years of work. Now you have a tiny rented apartment with a landlord and soul-destroying slavery 5+ days a week to an boss. How the fuck are you saying this is increased quality of life? Dignity is completely gone, free time is completely gone. Neets can sometimes hack the system, but for most people things have got much worse. Even health is getting worse - though i should point out that extending life through horrible elderly years is not that much of a great thing


>Just a few decades ago people could buy a home and land in a few years of work.
sounds like something very specific to north america and within a very narrow time frame. an exception more than a rule.


no, I am not american and it is mostly universal among the globalised 'developed countries'


yes in the post war era up to the seventies maybe. so mostly a boomer thing.


Who cares if they had slightly more money when they didn't have internet and computers? Thanks to my laptop and the internet infinite entertainment lies before me.

Okay, then you wouldn't mind living in medieval times I guess? Enjoy dying a painful death from some simple illness or working for your lord all day, then going to church because you wouldn't have any other entertainment.

How retarded. We are progressing, it is objective truth. Life is becoming easier and easier as we move forward, you can't debate this.

Nice romantic feelings for the past you got there. Working conditions improved everywhere in the civilized world, workers have more rights now than ever before. I don't care about family farms, I care about technology that provides me with infinite entertainment though and tech that makes life easier for me.



Things Are now Better than before. Humans Will always see The downsides. In middle ages there was nothing to Do except work, eat, sleep and fuck. Now you Have endless entertainment.


You are not a wageslave, i take it? Most people are. Who cares about infinite entertainment when you have no time to consume it? You're probably very young and havent realised the how empty and fleeting the satisfaction is from consuming mindless shit created by others, living like a slave in a cage



You have 6-7 hours of free time if you wage slave. More than enough

Im not a wageslave atm but I have been one


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>You have 6-7 hours of free time if you wage slave. More than enough


>infinite entertainment
Entertainment of all kinds stops being interesting and a factor in your life after 30. It's just background noise that underscores the emptiness of life and everything previously stated in this thread. Whatever you enjoyed previously, be it anime or vidya or music or literature will just be a chore at best, you will simply stop watching, listening, or reading, and you will no longer see or understand why any of that mattered to you at all. Because it doesn't matter to adults. It cannot matter. It's empty and hollow. Meaning can only be found it other people, and that's where true horror lies, because you will come to realize there is nobody to connect with. There never was. You will then most likely "find Christ" or escape to some other panacea that does nothing, but you will wear a fake smile while desperately trying to ignore the emptiness. There is no difference between a Disney adult and a Christian, or the "old rocker" who still wears his grey hair in a ponytail.

You're just too young to understand. But you will, and then you'll theoretically be the one writing something like this to some deluded teenager in the future. Technology doesn't matter, entertainment doesn't matter, and "progress" is a lie. There is a fundamental emptiness in Man that can never be satiated and filled up, and your suggestion that this is the "best time" is laughable, since everything serves only to amplify this emptiness and inadequacy and make it all-pervasive. The modern world is a hell. It is a sterile, safe, bodily comfortable hell where nothing of significance can or does occur, since it disrupts the system and reminds us of our humanity. Ergo your "endless entertainment."

We can't go back. The past is in the past and it carries its own problems. It is undesirable to go back, but going forward is impossible and undesirable as well. Whatever solution exists - if it exists - can only be found through the passage of death.


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eloquent and redpilled, my friend. pessimism is one of the few remaining pleasures in my life. nothing really is fun.


I'm not a wageslave but you implying working is a new thing society only invented recently? People always had to wageslave, in the past under much harsher conditions than nowadays. Can't you really see how for the average guy living conditions improved drastically?

I'm in my mid20s and enjoying stuff like movies and anime, they didn't lose any of their touch for me, in fact I like reading and watching stuff even more. What do you even want in life that would be better than having access to infinite entertainment? I think the problem is with you if you can't occupy yourself or can't find anything you like in this day&age.

Sorry but can't relate to anything you wrote. You have to stop assuming that every people is the same as you.

Entertainment is the salt of life, it is life itself. I was never interested in other humans so I can't understand what you mean by things like
>Meaning can only be found it other people, and that's where true horror lies, because you will come to realize there is nobody to connect with.
Really? This reads like something a depressed failed normal would feel. Maybe stop defining yourself by herd values and mentality? Meaning can be found in whatever you like.
For me it is the exact opposite, I take delight and joy from the fact that connecting with others is useless. I like myself and like being alone, so again why should I feel bitter? Plus I enjoy my hobbies greatly.

Maybe you are older than me but I feel like you are a teenager in soul. Because that is when people go for the pessimist pill and take this no-fun, anti-life attitude. At least I was like that when I was young but nowadays I know pessimism in that form is bullshit. To be honest, I love life and am grateful for it. I love studying, learning, thinking about things. I love watching anime, movies, TV shows and reading manga, comics, books of all kinds. These are my main joys in life and for me they are great.

I don't know how anyone can debate that progress is a thing? I mean, really, would you enjoy living in ancient Egypt as a slave? Or would you prefer living in christian europe and getting burned alive by others simply because your branch of religion slightly differed from theirs? Or even 100-200 years ago, when workers and common folk barely had any rights at all? If you say it doesn't matter because life always sucked then you know that it isn't true and you are lying to yourself. You are depressed, most likely have anhedonia and you can't perceive the world around you accuretely or take every luxury of the modern times for granted. You need to appreciate things a little more.

>your suggestion that this is the "best time" is laughable, since everything serves only to amplify this emptiness and inadequacy and make it all-pervasive

But what is the problem with this? I'm happy we live in a society where people are alienated from each other. I don't like others and they don't like me so what is the problem? Why should we spend time together with others if we can't relate to them or even hate them? Again, I think you should just find something you could occupy yourself with during your free time instead of craving the company of retarded normalfags.
>The modern world is a hell. It is a sterile, safe, bodily comfortable hell where nothing of significance can or does occur, since it disrupts the system and reminds us of our humanity. Ergo your "endless entertainment."
So you want a dangerous and well, more active or stimulating environment? Why don't you go to Ukraine and participate in the war then? Or I can tell you something even easier, you can go live the homeless life or the criminal life if you want action…but of course you won't do any of these because you are just a romantic, an idealist who can only whine about how "safe" the society we live in is but you won't do anything that would actually cause you to be in danger of some sort. Typical hypocrite teenager mentality.

All you did manage to do is whining. So what is your problem with modern society? That it protects your weak ass or that it gives you rights? Or that it offers you comfort and entertainment people before you in history couldn't even dream about?

Be grateful, faggot.


Marie Antoinette(*) : "Let them eat cake" :: >>190323 : "Who cares if they had slightly more money when they didn't have internet and computers? Thanks to my laptop and the internet infinite entertainment lies before me."



Ironic how you continue to make reproving walls of text directed at anyone who displays the barest hint of apathy or pessimism, yet have the gall to chastise him for "assuming that every one is the same as you". And you're very easy to spot, you know.


And now comes the "romantic commando", as I like to call it, people who think everyone should do something special or be übermensch of some kind instead of just enjoying life.

There is nothing wrong with living for bread and circus. Implying there are higher meanings in life is a very childish, naive and idealist opinion. Like I said already, you can break your back trying to achieve fame and greatness, while I derive more fun from my anime and movies than you ever will from living your life.

Apathy isn't an enlightened state of mind, it is a sickness. Pessimism is some phony romantic movement that has its origins in Schopenhauer, someone who never had any actual troubles in life and who live an extremely privileged life.

Pessimism is for children, you know.


>And now comes the "romantic commando", as I like to call it, people who think everyone should do something special or be übermensch of some kind instead of just enjoying life.
I was saying the EXACT opposite. You're saying that a person can "just" get internet, a laptop, a place to live, enough to eat, etc. is like Marie Antoinette saying "Let them eat cake" when people are struggling to eat bread.
I get what you're saying, but this isn't the board to use 'textwalls' as a criticism.


>this isn't the board to use 'textwalls' as a criticism.
my advice is that if you're going to masturbate, you should at least make it exciting. but really you're just trying to get yourself off.


You can go to the fap thread if you want to masturbate.


But who is struggling nowadays in Western countries? All I see is people living in incredible luxury everywhere around me and I'm from a post-commie 2nd world country. Getting a laptop, internet, a place to live and enough to eat can't be too hard, especially if you have a supportive family.


>Entertainment is the salt of life, it is life itself. I was never interested in other humans
As I stated previously, you will come to realize how wrong you were once you get older. I have nothing more to add to the discussion since I already said what I wanted to say. Your attempt at debating my claims is meaningless because I cannot transfer my consciousness and experience to you, though I was once like you. We all were. That opening sentence is exactly how I felt when I was a kid, a teen, and all the way up to circa 25, after which these things slowly start to lose their meaning and by the time you hit 30 they will barely factor in to your life. You will retroactively see them for what they are - youthful folly.

I am 36 for reference. Even simply typing this out is a chore and I derive no satisfaction or meaning from it. You will gradually come into my position as well with the passage of time. And then it will hit you that your "happy memories" of consuming media offer absolutely no solace or comfort, and that tiny insignificant interactions with people are the only things keeping you afloat. You will then hopefully realize you were always starved for meaningful companionship but were terrified of admitting it to yourself, and will do your goddamn best to forge new connections with people, no matter how flawed they are, because the alternative is pure horror.

You will know, you will accept this. It is the inevitable conclusion of anyone who was or is in these circles. Life will teach this lesson to you.


>>Entertainment is the salt of life, it is life itself.

There is really no use engaging with this clown, if entertainment truly is the salt of his life he is in for a rude awakening.


>You will then hopefully realize you were always starved for meaningful companionship but were terrified of admitting it to yourself, and will do your goddamn best to forge new connections with people, no matter how flawed they are, because the alternative is pure horror.
yeah yeah humans are social creatures and all that, but what can you do when you're so hopelessly asocial that contact even with your closest relatives is a chore. at this point most of us have fatalistically realised we're screwed over the long run anyhow
damned if i do, damned if i dont.


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Reading the Wikipedia article on Karoshi is an interesting side-reading to this thread.


So the country most associated with the phenomenon isn't even that bad compared to others. I also would've expected Mexico to be much worse given the crazy high amount of hours worked on average. That's a very interesting image.


You are a failed normalgroid, and your brain is rotting from age. I do get lonely sometimes but I'm not going to pretend I'm going to be happier seeking companionship with other people. While I do think you should branch out into other hobbies besides just watching anime and games like the guy you replied to thinks (so the inside of your head doesn't become mush when you get older), solitary activities aren't inherently less meaningful than being with other people.
Your pessimism doesn't mean you have become more wise, your mind is deteriorating. Should have played more sudoku I guess.


You are not allowed to feel unhappy with your life on wizchan.


Pessimism =/= unhappiness. It's really unhappiness + projection. I wouldn't have a problem if he/you just shared personal experiences that contradicted what the first person said, but no, you WILL feel how I feel about the "horrors" of being alone and the supposed meaningfulness of dealing with normals.


I really have to wonder how it's defined. Most of the Karoshi cases in Japan have the following story:
>Perfectly healthy not overweight 20-30 yo
>Dies of a heart attack
>Authorities' eyes perk up, "Wtf, that's not supposed to happen."
>Find out the dude has been getting <6 hours of sleep a night because they have a shit workplace.
>Mark it as a karoshi death and make the workplace pay.
If I were conspiratorial, I'd say the main reason for pushing corn syrup based diets is so that karoshi can be hidden.
It's a similar deal with overwork. Japan is famous for overwork, and yet it's Mexico and South Korea whose work hours are absolutely fucking insane.


You got to love how the two countries with the "lazy" stereotype are on the top of the list for hardest working.


I think working hours isn't a very telling metric since some people bust their ass every second while others do a couple hours of work and spend the rest of the day messing around. All it really tells is how much someone's willing to sell their time rather than the actual work they're wiling to do.


So you regret not being a normal with wife and children thats what you’re implying there…


Give me a break, Sensei, I heard from older people all the time their "wisdom"
Like: "when you will reach X age you will be want a gf too, trust me" Or "Nah, after you grow up you will want to work too and you will want a family and kids" or "Yeah, better be prepared boy, because X thing is really scary or hard to do or to endure, trust me I know it from experience" And I could go on, I learned a long time ago not to trust my elders at all, no matter whether they are only a couple of years or 50 years older than me. Or whether they are normalfags or failed norms like you or wizards.

You embody everything that is wrong with wizardly "culture" nowadays. Sour grapes, bitter, envious, full of resentment and hatred for everyone who even remotely enjoys his life, especially if they are fellow wizards. Truly, with "friends" like you who needs enemies?
What is even more astonishing is that you couldn't even give me a good enough reason why you hate life. All you managed to parrot was some cliché anti-tech, anti-modernist narrative about muh evil modern society which alienates people from each other and makes life "sooo boring"(read, we live in safe environment). You clearly don't have real problems in your life, you are just a typical bored, spoiled, privileged 1st worlder misanthrope who can't appreciate anything good in life or in his life.

Your little failed normalfag blues&jazz about being empty inside and wanting to connect with others - this is the part where it becomes clear that you don't even understand people like me. You project your little failed norm self onto everyone.

Like I said, I love myself, I love my life, I love my hobbies - and that is all that counts. Instead of wasting your time posting here about how "shit" life is, you should follow through with your life-view and kill yourself, I don't say this out of hostility, but because there is no point in what you do at all. Either appreciate life or gtfo. But ofc we know you won't do it ever, because you don't have any serious problems in your life besides >tfwnofriends.

>rude awakening

They just want to drag everyone down into their little mud pond of misery and bitterness. That is all pessimism is about in its core. "Everyone should be a nofun, depressed whiny succubus like me(even though I don't even know why I'm miserable!)"


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>But who is struggling nowadays in Western countries? All I see is people living in incredible luxury everywhere around me and I'm from a post-commie 2nd world country.
>Okay, then you wouldn't mind living in medieval times I guess? Enjoy dying a painful death from some simple illness or working for your lord all day, then going to church because you wouldn't have any other entertainment.
>How retarded. We are progressing, it is objective truth. Life is becoming easier and easier as we move forward, you can't debate this.
what's missing from your analysis is your luxury lifestyle is built on overseas slave labor, so the relative standard of living between feudal aristocrats->serfs and modern first->third-world workers differs only in degree. the disparity may be even greater than during the medieval era tbh


If you're miserable with your life then you simply haven't thought about why life is a wonderful thing. I would implore everyone to take a few hours and think very hard about why life is amazing. If you are miserable with life then you probably just like to whine.


What happened in 1971/72 which caused this?


The US pulled out of Vietnam and suddenly hundreds of thousands of young men who survived the slaughter were looking for a place to live. The US government partially subsidized their housing costs, so realtors decided to just charge double the normal price. The trend has yet to end.


The end of the gold standard (another poster already noted this:
>>190213 ). A lot of these charts came from wtfhappenedin1971.com


How do I profit from Abdul working long hours for shit wages? I don't, his exploiters profit from it. The Trumps, the Musks, the Gates, the such who hold most of the world's wealth in their safes. What I owe is absolutely laughable when compared to their wealth.


>How do I profit from Abdul working long hours for shit wages?
you benefit from low labor costs as it reduces the market price of commodities, increasing your purchasing power. strange how the guy who's been vociferously defending this system is suddenly pretending to be unaware how it operates


Like I said, the average westerner benefits insignificantly from 3rd worlders. The ones who take money from them are those who have companies there and force them to work for shit. I'm not one of the global elite and I don't care about purchasing things that much as I live a frugal life.


I've been reading a lot of your posts in this thread, and it's interesting, because I'm actually ideologically on your side, and you're laying down facts and logic. You have marshaled logos to your side to an extremely competent degree, BUT at the cost of pathos and ethos against your side to such an extent that the other side in this debate is winning me over. It's like looking at a war where country A wins every engagement, but country B is clearly winning the war.


So you just don't like my style basically?

As for ideologies, I consider myself anti-romantic, pro-progress, pro-technology, pro-futurism.


Style, charisma, yes.


I'm glad this thread was made. I was just seeing elsewhere an argument by some devoted NEETs and wagecucks.
I think ot's fucking simple. Actually the movements in China and Korea pretty much sum this up: the job market is so competitive, overworking yourself into disease is so emphasized (in murrica they call it "the grindset", some sales pitch for suckers of big corporate cock), and all of that for what? Pretty much just to live. It's not even about ambition anymore. The wheel is going ever faster and just to keep up with basic expenses requires enslaving yourself.
So I guess these movements are just people that don't think one ought to work themselves to death just to live. I don[t think that's natural, or necessary.


> Freeters

What does this term mean again?


I think it's a type of ship


The truth is that the old social contracts are dead and the expectations that we will fulfill our "roles" in society without that role existing, is partially why hikkomoris and neets are so popular now.

On the flip side, these movements are about social control. It's ideally about making you a good slave who goes to work and then goes home and consumes, alone, in his box, in a large city, where his taxes pay for people who hate and will never embrace him.


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I think it's a type of chip


>a "free" worker that worked less hours, earned pay hourly instead of a monthly paycheck like regular full time workers, and received none of the benefits of a regular full time worker
>Freeters may also be described as underemployed.


Why can't somebody feel unhappy with their life?


>life is wonderful thing
Only if you are mindless animal slaved to its self preservation instinct or some kind of rabid, fundamentalistic fanatic.


Not him. I think being unhappy with life is all right and natural BUT to roleplay as some pessimist faggot who can only whine and whine without appreciating anything good in life is just stupid. What I mean is that of course there are times when people are unhappy, you can't be always happy. However, if you adopt this feeling as an attitude to things and life in general then you are just a fag.

Oh so now only animals are allowed to care about self-preservation? Hahahaha. You sure set the bar high, man. Putting aside the whole humans are animals too thing, what is your problem with the self-preservation instinct? I take it you rose above us ordinary mortals, O mighty Buddha. So can I go where you live and take all your stuff? After all you don't care about this life clearly. And surely you won't mind if someone tortures you to death either, after all you don't care about self-preservation…Faggot.



Yeah I agree with that. I don't think there are a lot of people here who actually hate life, I think most people are just misanthropic which is far more understandable.


there is no great resignation. people are just choosing to exchange jobs at a greater rate


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Found this chart on the NEET wikipedia article. Don't know how much it's changed since then. Japan is at the bottom.


I’m from T*rkey and neet so yes its accurate and I hate this shithole


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I don't wanna be the "you'll see when you grow up" 30yo boomer, but please take it as a genuine warning - I'm not sure how inevitable the passive media burnout is.
I've watched close to a thousand full anime series/movies, dozens of 3d shows, regular movies in the high hundreds. I'm pretty sure everyone has a point at which the limits of human creativity become painfully obvious and you cannot help but see how formulaic 90+% of stuff that you consume is.
For me, the enjoyment received from most media was steadily very high ever since I was young till about 28yo, in the span of less than a year suddenly dropped off a cliff. It feels like I'm a junkie who went from using pure cocaine to having to sniff on average 9 lines of wheat flour till I get to the powder that works. The spark of curiosity and adventure that was present before hardly ever appears anymore.
I don't know how to avoid this, but if I had to guess, I would suggest not putting all your eggs into one basket. Find a creative / physical / skillful hobby that you enjoy before it's too late. Woodcarving, lifting, running, FPV drones, anything that's not just passive entertainment. If you have any friends that you care about try to do at least the bare minimum to keep in touch. Once the process of rotting from the inside starts, it'll be too late.


Good post. Ten years ago on wizchan we never had the older wizzies to serve as a harbinger. I think even a lot of normalfaggots fall into the NEET trap because they're just projecting their experience playing Final Fantasy, watching anime and enjoying every new video game release for their entire life. And it works well from 18-24, you're genuinely still happy being a bit of a manchild, but slowly it sinks in and the magic starts fading away. How one would feel at eighteen watching the Teletubbies, that's how it feels being 28 and trying to play Grand Theft Auto and watching the newest shonen anime release.

I can enjoy reading into the production of the stuff I used to like. Like watching videos and reading about how Gran Trismo was made in the nineties. But I can no longer play any of that stuff for more than an hour or two. It's like trying to watch a movie for the fifth time in a month, that's what it feels like, you just feel impatient and just wait for it to end. And you get frustrated, and sometimes even feel sad, because the times you used to have playing Halo as a teenager socially are never coming back.

It might not necessarily happen to every wizzie. But someone at thirty still genuinely consooming teenage entertainment is literally as rare as a teenager still watching Blues Clues and Teletubbies every morning before school. It's both rare and a sign of stunted mental development.


name of anime on op?


Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou


Mid 30s anon here. I think there is a cycle. For sure by late 20s/early 30s it feels like you're fooling yourself, but lately I have been finding the interest come back. It is not as strong as it used to be, but still worthwhile enough to pursue and peacefully pass the time. I don't know, maybe the dip is .ore permanent with others. Any 40+ anon that can tell us?


I remember having these exact conversations over a decade ago with some 30 year old neet steam friend. He told me all of these things and I didn't believe it. I was a dumb 17 year old and responded the same way that other anon did.

Over the past few years it's slowly been becoming true and I think about those conversations a lot. I just can't find the fun in things anymore. I'll start up a game and 20 minutes later I'm wondering what the point is. Sometimes I'll get into moods and play 3-4 games over a couple weeks, or I'll play something so novel or good that I'll actually finish it but both of those are rare occurrences that are becoming more and more infrequent.

There are things I want to do, I see the value in creative hobbies. I just feel like too much of a mental midget to do anything. I'm bored all of the time and don't see any end to it.


>I think even a lot of normalfaggots fall into the NEET trap
rule 4. go away.


yeah this fucking sucks. i am interested in a ton of things. but putting forth the effort to do the things is becoming harder and harder


I'm too lazy to re-read my previous posts here so maybe I will end up repeating myself. What you talk about, I already went through that phase. I had it from 15 until 20 roughly. That was when I never managed to finish consuming anything I started because everything seemed cliché and I couldn't relate to how normal oriented entertainment was in general. I spent my free time sleeping (even when I wasn't tired), masturbating, browsing stupid image boards, listening to music, fantasizing about suicide/death or being angry/frustrated. Then around when I was 21 or 22 I changed and from then on it has been a constant ride to more and more fun for me. I lowered my colossal and retarded standards and realized that I belong to a rare type of men and so it would stupid of me to expect that media and stuff would be made to please me and my fringe taste exactly. Take it or leave it. I chose to take it, even if "it" isn't to my liking all the time. I also developed an ascetic spirit. What I mean by this is that I watch or read anything to the end even if I hate it. Anything is better than staring at the wall or thinking about suicide all the time so I don't complain anymore how bad every kind of entertainment is like most people do. I know I am privileged to live in this era where every sort of media is available to me instantly and for free on the internet. Most people who lived before us in history didn't have anything to occupy themselves with except for having friends or having a family. Well, maybe reading books or going to the theater but even that was a privilege of some sort.

I never cared about those epic meme hobbies you people list like doing sports or whatever creative hobbies you mentioned. I always liked getting absorbed into other people's worlds and fantasies. It is kind of like getting to know people in an honest way. If you want to know someone then read his books or watch his movies/anime/etc and you will know what that person's inner world is really like. I'm 25 now and like I said, I don't even know what to watch or read lots of times, I have so many things I am interested in.

>How one would feel at eighteen watching the Teletubbies, that's how it feels being 28 and trying to play Grand Theft Auto and watching the newest shonen anime release.
Stupid comparison but I think you know it too deep down. Many adults, including normals, enjoy what you would consider "teenager" entertainment. Instead of caring about what you "should" enjoy just enjoy what you like, DUH? If you like Teletubbies then whatever, watch that. Or if you don't want entertainment that is made for young people there are plenty of things out there for you. You just have to search for it and put in some effort. No offense but you sound extremely lazy to me. You are the type of person who wants to watch the same 5 movies and wants to enjoy the same genre all the time, right? And then you act surprised when you don't enjoy it anymore and dismiss all entertainment with a wave of your hand. Try out new things once in a while, step out of your comfort zone and experiment with other genres.


So you didn't even fall into the pit yourself not even close to old enough to comprehend. Yet here you are preaching to the 30+ posters. You got so close to hitting the mark btw except you wrote them off as "lazy". What a dog shit vanilla ass canned take. Why even post here.



Imagine wanting to fit in this much, trying to please "wiz elders" so desperately. lol Wizkid, don't try too hard.

>So you didn't even fall into the pit yourself

I won't repeat myself. If 5 years of anhedonia and burnout are nothing to you then that's your problem.
>not even close to old enough to comprehend
Indeed, I don't understand "true suffering" these 30+ true, certified wizzos go through. Which btw sounds like pointless whining to me.

Being miserable and bitter isn't a virtue, no matter what you read on /dep/. Grow up, dude.


What's your problem? Like no, actually, what's so bad about an older wizzie warning you that -potentially- a shut in lifestyle defined by media entertainment will no longer be satisfying as you age?

>Try out new things once in a while, step out of your comfort zone and experiment with other genres.

Have you been around older people and seen the media they consoom? 90% just want something to unwind to after work to slow them down to sleep, or they're in nostalgia mode one weekend and are watching Blade Runner or Lawrence of Arabia for the 100th time. They are like that because the magical feeling doesn't come back for them, they are the ones going to the new Terminator and Rocky films and shit -only- because it reminds them of being a teenager in the 80s watching the first Terminator and Rocky. My dad has probably watched more movies than most people, it was his way of unwinding after work each night. But on the days he didn't come home from work tired, he never bothered. He always told me "I might have one movie I enjoy every two weeks or so, and once a year I'll have a good one that I really enjoy watching". And on the weekends when he wants to watch something seriously, he'll put on Bullit, Dirty Harry or some motorcycle film from the 70s.

That's the human experience. For most people, no amount of genre hopping can sate the feeling. 90% of entertainment is marketed to people under 25 for that reason, and the sweet spot for media consooming is your teenage years. It's why Marvel and Shonen shit get the biggest budgets and enjoy the largest market share. Boomers outnumber Zoomers, so why aren't there comparable blockbuster films marketed towards Boomers outside of nostalgia bait?


Isn’t this new top gun movie made for boomers? I think hollywood makes a lot of nostalgia movies for boomers also


>What's your problem? Like no, actually, what's so bad about an older wizzie warning you that -potentially- a shut in lifestyle defined by media entertainment will no longer be satisfying as you age?

The problem is that it is just pure envy and malice that makes these "kind" elder wizzies write their "warnings" to me. They envy me because I can still enjoy my hobbies, things they can't anymore (which is entirely their fault, I might add). I really dislike this patronizing tone. Age doesn't make you smarter or wiser in the majority of cases, it only makes you dumber or more bitter. They try to project their misery onto me and to convince me to be afraid of the future because they don't like how their lives turned out. Truly, who needs enemies when you have such "good" comrades as these wizards who want to drag everyone down into their filth and misery? Misery loves company.

You are extremely wrong about many things. One thing is that 90% of entertainment is made for people under 25. What the hell again, you think after 25 people don't enjoy movies and such? Just because you and others here don't enjoy it anymore. Nice projection. There are many people who do enjoy it, guess again. The problem is with you.
You are aware that middle aged people like these things too, right? Just to make sure.
Another thing you are wrong about is the nostalgia and re-watching stuff. That is the best way to burn yourself out, I guessed right, you really are the type who watches the same 10 or so movies for all his life and acts surprised when he doesn't derive any joy from consuming media anymore. As I said, step out of your comfort zone, would you? You won't regret it. You are shutting out vast amount of entertainment because you are too narrow minded. Nobody watches the same movie 100 times, unless they are autists or spergs of some kind. Move on and discover new things.


The only thing more annoying than someone constantly psychoanalyzing people, is someone failing miserably at it. I said my piece much earlier in the thread and see no point in elaborating. You get it or you don't, and you don't. Maybe you'll feel it one day, maybe you won't. It's something worth putting out there because it's inevitable for most and good to be aware of. I think the "you'll understand when you're older" undertones of these warnings can be a bit patronizing, but that really is all there is to say. If you were immortal, and had consumed every existing piece of media, do you think new media would still interest you? If so, you're special, congratulations. If not then you understand there is some point where you've seen enough, even your suggestion of seeking out new genres acknowledges this concept. The people discussing this aren't unadventurous, watching the same things over and over, it's the opposite. They've seen so much that anything "new" feels that way.


>negative feelings bad
No, the problem is people like you.
Just why do you have such need to invade spaces where you don't belong and preach your positivist shit there?
Absolutely disgusting.


Sure, you aren't being arrogant at all or cocky when you think at 30 something in life you've seen EVERYTHING. Hahaha. Give me a break. Even a 1000 years wouldn't be enough to explore all of human entertainment and culture yet you have the pretentious attitude to dismiss the whole world and all entertainment as boring. Please. You haven't even dared to explore new genres, you got bored of the same movies and anime you've been always watching since you were 10 and think that is all to human entertainment. God…

Boy, I've been with wizchan and wizardchan way longer than you most likely.
You don't have to be a bitter miserable person if you are a wizard. Are you 18 and just recently found this place? I sincerely would like to know. The problem isn't with negative feelings either exactly, the problem is with being negative all the time and adopting this mindset generally.

Negative feelings when they are natural serve a purpose. When you constantly dwell in the mud then it becomes a pretentious teenager attitude, however. This site became a caricature of itself over the years, sadly. Now it is a value and virtue to be depressed and to be anhedonic on this site and the more miserable you are the more respect you get from your fellow wizzas. God damn LOL Retarded hivemind.


I'm not sure how you could call anyone arrogant while insisting you know something about someone they've already told you isn't true. I don't replay games(barring ones made to be played repeatedly) and I certainly don't rewatch anything. Genuinely braindead, I can see how you don't get bored.


I don't get bored because I had a drastic change of mind, I'd advise you to copy me too. You probably sit down before every media with the same "ohh let's get this over with pufff" mentality. Don't be shocked if you don't enjoy anything like that. Just sayin.


It amazes me that you decided to start with watching anime, which is not only a passive action, but isekai anime are full of ambitious main characters. It looks like a list of things you are interested and went straight to the one that requires 0 effort to do anything. This is no lack of ambition, btw.


There was another good one but whatever


>but whatever
What was the point of adding that? To say that you don't care, despite just before suggesting that you do care by mentioning there was another good VN?


You're not talking about snoot game are you?

Because he thinks discussion of it is wasted here and he's probably right.


>discussion of it is wasted here and he's probably right.
Then why bring it up at all? He should keep his >your opinions a shit, not gonna elaborate style posts on /v/.


I mean it's not really relevant to the thread is it?


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Eh I've been with you for a few points but now you're shitting on people who like to rewatch stuff for whatever reason, fuck you and the guy who tries to convince others about how shit everything will become, I am over thirty and still consume like 10 years ago, if anything visiting this site is probably the reason you people are so miserable


the only reason I'd want money is:
>house (paying property tax too)
But this is why I'm focusing to get rich in this life. I don't want to die poor because I couldn't afford some pills or something. Or because I couldn't afford good medical treatment. As for the rest? I don't give a fuck. I just read books and so on. I like having a computer though, yeah.

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