/wiz/ - Wizardry

God doesn't exist, we don't know what created the universe, suffering is a living proof that there is no benevolent force, dysgenics proves that we are products of unintelligent evolution.

Nobody can truly prove it exists, so what's the point in believing in God? Moreover, how can you, in the time of science-based knowledge, believe in something that cannot be proven? And even if we assume God exists, does he really care about humans?

The archons are our believe systems, the demiurge is us. Those are right path are antinatalists. Doesn't matter what you, if you don't birth consciousness = redemption.

If God exists, he's not changing stuff based on what you say to him and anyone who thinks he is is fucking insane.

>>227828
Wonder if there's a large number of Angels nevertheless, even if our planet is one of the many.

A vast majority of religious people are LARPing. If they truly believed they were going to heaven when they died they wouldn’t give two shits about money or their health or most things in life. I’d take up free solo rock climbing to get around the no suicide rule.

I pray only to Celestia (and her sister)

>>227827
I don't really believe in God as in some being that consciously does things, much less something human-like. Seems to me that it's sort of arrogant to assume that the thing that made everything else is anything like us. Or perhaps just a result of humans general tendency to anthropomorphize. So for me God is something that exists but we can never grasp. It's more similar to the Dao for me. Like some kind of universal order or way in which all can be in perfect harmony fitting together like gears in some incomprehensible clockwork. This applies to matter as well as living things, I think. Every thing and being has a way of existing that is optimal for the greater whole. Religions to me are just the human attempts at setting up rules in an attempt to get closer to that state of harmony and balance, aka getting closer to God.
That way of thinking about it seems more reasonable to me.

>>227861
i did this once

I am of the opinion that that even if some "creative" (even this word comes charged with far too many human connotations) force exists in the universe that might resemble our notion of a God exists, it is not possible for us to have any meaningful understanding of it. Our situation as conscious entities in this existence is just so extraordinarily bizarre and nonsensical that it seems the height of hubris to suggest that you might possess unique knowledge regarding reality. To use a poor analogy, it would be like expecting a tiny screw or piece of metal within a computer to be able to understand its position and function within the broader whole of the computer. Relative to our perspective you can zoom in with a microscope and observe swarms of bacteria in everything, writhing around and reproducing, given the vastness of the universe from our vantage point it seems completely plausible that in a way we are no different from those bacteria. From the perspective of a large enough spectator there would not be any meaningful difference at all. Our planet may a singular molecule in a churning ocean of a larger plane of existence, which in turn may prove to but another molecule in the grander chain of reality. I understand this statement is somewhat ironic given I am here communicating my position on the world. Here I am positing my own absurd metaphysical propositions that are of course myopic and false. That's why I default back to "We don't know".

>>227880
Im sorry. Couldn't actually feel you…

>>227881
I'm not sure what you mean.

>>227827
i cant think about the god´s idea

>>227827
>What are your thoughts and views on God, if any?
Not very favorable in general due to how the world operates.
I still "pray" to God every now and then, mostly out of desperation, but my prayers are like that you'd have towards a wish fulfilling entity.
I could never quite understand Christian prayer, even as a kid.
It felt like you were talking to a tyrant acting like a good little serf so you can avoid wrath and get some scraps.
"Thy kingdom come and thy will be done." or something, not sure how it actually translates to the English variant.
I talked back to the priest holding bible class often enough to get banned.
(Mostly because I also attended a random Catholic bible study for a while in parallel, nobody checked if I belonged and I was too stupid to know the difference so I just went along with the other priest too lol.)
Never got confirmed either.

Generally speaking I prefer religions where there aren't any claims that are obviously false, tied to real mundane history etc.
So something like taoism I guess.
The more philosophical or fantastical and less human/mundane the better.

To some people Jesus being "some dude" while also somehow God s a point of connection, but to me it's a huge disconnect.
Why should I, person born 30 years ago be subject to tribal nonsense from a far-gone era of some carpenter that was then used as form of control, embraced by politicians at the time for such purposes.
Very weird to me.

Not to sound all fedora atheist here, I know it was in vogue back in the days online. I just dislike how so much of Christianity has been demystified and a lot of stuff has been traced back historically.
It's become too mundane.

I do enjoy spiritual topics, /x/ type stuff, gnosticism. Hell even stuff like astrology despite the stigma. Not too deep into anything myself.
It's sad how all of it is intertwined with Abrahamic religions though.
Unfortunate.

>>227863
I'm pretty sure even the jews think this. That God as manifest is just the greater whole coalescing into a temporary fragment for a purpose.
Maybe I'm just lacking in understanding or have false information. They got a ton of names for God too.

I do not believe that the worlds state is one of balance and harmony. If there are creative/progenitor forces they are chaos and not order.
The order we experience and crave is just a natural result, formed out of need for contrast.
So basically we, seekers of order in chaos are unintended, undesired even and the closer one goes towards order the further away they are from the progenitor.

I feel closer to gnosticism in the way the belief of god is almost an intrinsic fact that the old testament god is the representation of the evils of man, and the new testmanet god christ is the true image of what man should be, seeing that he came down. This is also something coming from someone who has only read some of Genesis and the passage of Exodus and the other prophets as a kid, but God seems not to be a god reacting to man's actions, but synchronization of man's nature, rather than a sole separate reaction to it. But then again, people think that God would act according to our beliefs and moral standards, which most would agree he doesn't, at least the traditional Christian beliefs. God, at least in the Christian terms, seems to be the only rational reaction, at least Christ's presence, at least only something that was interacting with humans would put himself as a peasant, like a carpenter, instead of the accolades other gods have, even if he developed a following and so on during his time here. But on the other hand, the Old Testament God seems so archaic or alien and complicated, a humanless voice commanding the prophets to act in his will as servants or slaves, even if it's out of love, at least the translations seem to present the language as such compared to Christ. I have no choice but to be here and to think that god would follow my individual request, or morals seem insane, maybe that's why it's hard to pray, for the world and He act in synchronized suffering or beauty without my interaction. Being an unheard peasant of spirit and body, or being a peasant picking himself to try even with no promised reward, inscribed in human material value, feels like the only two choices. All we can do is find out and see if we guessed right when it comes to more trivial or debatable values we have. I'm retarded anyway, so who knows

I got temporarily interested in Orthodox Christianity (Since a couple of years I have returning periods of interest in Christianity because it seems to be quite in line with my endless feeling of guilt/anxiety/longing and my moral disgust with the state of the world) but I couldn't handle endless sense of me not being capable of living up to God's expectations and the fact that other people, after all, seem to have to go to hell. I ended up thinking that God either will save everyone which makes serving him appear sort of pointless or that he will indeed curse vast majority of us, which made me feel hopeless about myself and about his "grace". This went along with having to reroute my entire life to basically killing myself in hope of seeing some higher world that can not be proved through anything now except by some sense of gut feeling that requires huge amount of coping to accept. I don't know how so many Orthodox can just go to the Church on Sundays or do some little Christian practice and sleep peacefully thinking of hell. It didn't help either that the tradition that the Orthodox like so much seems to be self contradictory at times (It denies universal salvation but has some saints who considered it, it says that you can't get saved without baptism and yet has histories of saints resurrecting people like Roman Emperors just to give them a quick baptism because they did one good deed after killing lots of Christians), it just feels like a cope.

I have a take I would never post openly.

I have a super hot take to share anonymously.

Christianity is not *just a book* written by people. It's a demagoguery handbook on fallacies, apparently. (Beats the internationally found stories on a big dude who throws lightnings though)

Exhibit one. Mark's, Mattew's and John's parts of Evangelion say the same story which are a bit too similar one to another. There are neither natural discrepancies in testimonies nor serious differences in style made by people of different backgrounds. Instead, we got several stories on how The Kingdom is like X/an Y/an A. This teaches us an *ad nauseam* trick when the same story is written by a several students of the same writing school.

Exhibit two. The part where 5k people were fed with 3 fishes sounds unreal until you learn 3 400kg bluefin tunas can feed a lot of people and the unedible waste can take up several baskets. Talk about abusing people's ability to imagine.

Exhibit three. Basucally, Jesus kept holding a presentation after presentation, making various local priests ultra-mad. Yet those were *presentations*. That's why the Roman authorities were reluctant to intervene at first. However, it's the defining oneself as the king of the land that justified the cricification. It was a lesson for future demagogues to avoid defining oneself and keep being wishy-washy.

Exhibit four. The story about a madman named "The Legion" is a metaphor for a warmonger who sent a legion to capture a region. 2000 "pigs" died but the madman has quit being bad is a metaphor. War metaphor.

Bottom line: reading The Book is the best cure for Christianity. (Attributed to Mark Twain)

Hell awaits us all, because non-existence is heaven.

>>229213
>reading The Book is the best cure for Christianity
I've seen retards who read bits and pieces of it and never figured it out. Mark Twain underestimated how stupid people are.

>>229220
Most christians don't even read it and the ones who do don't even know that only the NT is the one that they have to follow and not the OT, since they're not paying attention. A lot of christian movements nowadays are NOT opposed to divorce, homosexual or premarital relationships, being rich or hurting kids in any given way even if these are the very few explicit rules that christians are supposed to actually follow. I wish mudslimes and jews behaved in the same way with their shit antisocial religions, it would save the entire world a lot of trouble.

>>229224
The only religion throughout history where people have read their own holy scriptures is judaism (torah).

Christians and muslims have been majority mentally retarded and early buddhists/hindus had very little access to the texts.

I literally cannot do any religious activity now after hearing this disgusting voice for so long, I have a history with Christianity though.
>>228298
Last thing I did before I started hearing this voice is coming to the following conclusion:
What is Jesus (God) actually doing?
He is explaining what you have to do if you wish to receive divine love.

>dysgenics proves that we are products of unintelligent evolution.
peak pseudointellectualism

>why do you not believe in god?
>are you some kind of atheist/physicalist?
Ask them this, can human morality exist in a vacuum? Can it exist without the threat of punishment from god? Can it exist without reasoning or logic, assuming all reasoning and logical can be inherently moral?

>>229290
Nobody said anything about morality. This isn't the own you think it is.

>>229290
Human morality is easily tied to not messing up with the wrong people.


People who congregated for around God for centuries are a force to be reckoned with *per se*.

>>229226
Most orthodox Jews actually only read the first 5 books of the bible, they don’t read the whole bible (TaNaKh) and they know nothing about it.

>>229315
They do read it lol, they just pay special attention to the Torah since that's their sacred text.

>>227827
The picture related sums it up perfectly. Somehow all the pain and suffering we endure has to be explained. I also thought that the so called creator could be someone who simply laid down to rules and left it going. Like how some people put water in a glass jar, close it and let life flourish. But to think God is kind or positive, anything better than neutral is foolish. They often come from a place where they haven't seen any major problems and don't think much. Even if you haven't seen the worse side of humanity it is easy to think about how many animals and lives have to suffer for that one individual to have a good life. So it is really a choice between a non caring creator or a non existing one. If we are more positive, it is safe to go with a non existing one. Meaning no God is responsible for anything bad.

god is everything. everything alive has its own essence with his presence, every animal, person, and entities from other religions. all gods or godesses are originated from the same body, and every religion has the same purpose

God exists only as a concept in people's minds, but it does therefore exist and is a powerful force with large and profound societal effects.

Humans are products of natural selection and the process of evolution. Humans have instincts just like any other animals. If you look at animal behavior, it can often be quite complex behavior that is driven wholly by instinct, like the weaver bird making nests. Religion is just a very complex instinct. People have a predisposition to accept certain things as true based on not whether that thing is true or not, but whether accepting it as true provides benefit to the individual/population. This is because of the natural pressures of evolution which select for these things.

Belief in God has many powerful and positive effects on a society, particularly when it comes to competition between societies. In hunter gatherer societies what you normally see is there are many gods and they will be often associated with a foundational myth that explains some aspect of why they do things the way they do in their society. Their Gods are fashioned after aspects of nature, often anthropomorphized. They will say, this god came down and taught us to make bows like this so now we make our bows like this. It reinforces and culturally cements aspects of survival that are essential to the group.

In more advanced religions, belief in God typically comes along with a set of prescribed ways one should live their life to please God, and ways that you shouldn't live your life that will anger God and invoke retribution. This allows the society to set rules which govern it and facilitate prosocial interactions. It also invokes loyalty to the particular civilization in which the religion predominates. If people believe an omnipotent higher power is watching them and judging them they will go to great lengths to please him, lengths they wouldn't go to to please mere mortals. Therefore it's a lot stronger and more powerful and has much greater societal effects.

It helps greatly in peer competition between different civilizations as well. I mean just play a Civ game and you will realize that. Before war, talk of God is common because it hypes everyone up to act in ways that are insane and costly to the individual. They believe they will be rewarded by God, so they are willing to sacrifice. This has a huge positive effect on their ability to fight and dominate other civilizations.

I could go on but I hope the examples I've given illustrate my general point well enough.

>>229327
This religious mentality will probably make the entire world muslim in a century or two, just by looking at their birthrates and comparing it to any other religion or demographic only the african christian countries may remain free of it, and it doesn't matter since they're already hell on earth without islam. Well, there's a small nation that will certainly remain free of both muslims and christians, heh.

this thread is more of a /lounge/ thread but anyway

I'm glad I'm out, got into science and never looked back. Humans are very prone to suggestion, I also was into paranormal stuff when the ghost hunting stuff was big. Funny enough, I detect neither after moving on from those schools of thought.

>>229330
I'm hoping Islam gets watered down to the point that it's just a cultural holiday thing but I'm worried it won't.

>>229333
Islams birthrate plummets to native levels and below in the west after the second generation, because muslims are subject to the exact same economical pressures as everybody else. And currently being a 20-30 something in the west sucks ass if you're not from a wealthy family.

>>229340
They will just import more human talent from the shitholes where the birthrates stay high in a never-ending cycle. It's funny to think about a future Europe where arabs sign the Save Al-Andalus Act because the elites are replacing them with somalians or bengalis.

>>229342
There is indeed a very strong push by the high capital circles in Northern Europe to simply circumvent this through increased importation of said people.

If people really wanted to make a change through voting, they could both ban this practice & heavily invest into child benefits as Hungary did.

There is no other single target of public funds that yields a higher social and economic 50 year return than investing into future generations of kids of your own ethnic background.

>>229340
Interesting, I know for a fact that places like morocco are economical weaker yet in those places they have huge families, so it's something other than economic pressure that causes lower birthrates

It's probably a psychological thing

>>229344
Morocco doesn't qualify as a western country. It's a third world country and all of them have massive birth rates.

>>229340
>economic cause of fertility decline

Yes, as we all know, poorer populations have fewer children than the rich. Digging real deep into the issue here.

>>228298
Very much into Holy Orthodoxy myself. Only been to liturgy once, since there is less than 10 parish in my entire country, and I'm trying to pinpoint the hidden one in my city. Anyway these question of yours are all addressed by Saints. I strongly reccomend going through the Saints' writing (really liked this one, I listened while I drive on the job https://www.youtube.com/@OrthodoxWisdom/videos). In fact it is listening to these that gives me conviction to left protestanism (I start listening to the Saints after I realized they have more authority on the matter of faith than the rationalizing protestant theologians) and embrace Holy Orthodoxy.


Is it all cope? Its hard to explain, but Orthodox apologetics is very far from the rationalizing that protestants like me is used to. God is a mystery, if you grasp the concept of mathematical projections onto lesser dimension, I'm sure you get what I'm getting at.

>>229345
You're ruled by pill popping lesbians that's why you can't breed lmao

>>229344
Nah it's still economic pressure - but in shithole countries children represent a *completely* different value proposition than in the heirs of Christendom.

Just the ones I know:

From the age of 5:
Basic animal tending (chickens, goats etc)
Accomplices to theft
Begging in tourist places - going to shitholistan as a white guy (don't do it), you are swamped everywhere you go with tiny hands reaching out to you for money
Sex Market Value

and *then* there's the chance in, say 1000, that one of the kids will make it to Christendom and remit enough of their salary (say, $50/month) that will render everything invested in them (all, say, $500 over the course of their entire life) a winning gamble. Sure it's only a 1 in 1000 chance but that's what polygamy is for.

Now in Christendom?
Kid at 5 has already consumed some $30,000 in government subsidised childcare
Who knows how many hours of unpaid child care because you can't leave a kid alone in a modern house where they can blow up or burn down the house and themselves through ignorance - and thanks to importing the shitholistanians and not culling our own crop of viles, you can't leave them outside unsupervised to play either.

Pre-schooling costs
Transport costs
Competitive advantage costs - Clothes, shoes, phone, glasses, immunisation injections, sports clubs, etc.
And the best outcome? They get a scholarship and a good job that, after subtracting debts and the cost to access the success they qualify for, they present a return on investment to the parent in their 60s.

See what i'm getting at?

Kid Shithole costs maybe $500 total in developments costs and during that time it will already be generating value, and there's always the chance of getting a 1 in 1000 win. In Thailand a single sex worker can and does support an entire extended farmer family - because during covid when that *didn't* happen, entire villages starved because they over-extended on the hard work of their daughters getting plowed.

Kid Christendom is a personal, family and national liability essentially until they day they die unless they're 1 in 10,000.

This was not always the case. Even in my own life time (mid 80s) the value proposition of kids was if not attractive at least not immediately obvious as *insane*. A working father could support 2+ children *and* a stay at home wife *and* make mortgage payments.

>>229373
>christendom
You should spend more time thunking because you left out the east and china

>>229374
Intentional; China is a highly distorted system that is still undergoing restructure such that the axiom that applies to post christendom doesn't quite apply to China, and probably never will to the whole country. Post Chirstendom - post first world industrial revolution nations - were absorbing rural agricultural labour into their cities and mills for two hundred years and more with the modern 'knowledge economy' in large part replacing manufacturing as the axis of the whole system. Not that some provincial bumblefuck can walk into an office high rise and contribute, but the cleaners, the local burger flippers and so on are grinding through the human grist in similar fashion to the textile mills - servicing the service economy if you will. China - far as I am aware - doesn't have that existing cross border absorption even though the domestic situation is growing in that direction.

India likewise is not 100 years into its transition, the default structure and easy abundance isn't in place yet and i'm disinclined to think it ever will - especially since it's arguably the headline player of that one in one-thousand lottery I mentioned.

>>229288
The human body has so many defects and errors only an idiot would have made it

I tried hard at being a Christian last decade and it fell apart, because I could not force myself to believe all the crap that you must believe to call yourself a Christian. I am constitutionally incapable at such a self-delusion to believe in physical resurrections and the other miracles. Christianity is too literalist.

So, I drifted for years as a materialistic atheist until I reached a point of existential break where I felt entirely and eternally trapped in a cyclical meaningless meat grinder. This feeling was so psychically painful that I allowed my mind to open to the possibility of hope for knowledge of a superior transcendental reality, not belief, which appeared in my mind's eye as a cloudy white light.

I see the world as incomplete, but abide in hope for something better that does not entail incertitude. I do not believe, nor do I know that there is a benevolent God, or superior reality, but I patiently search for it and the searching itself entails a self-development.

>>229418
Such an absurd preference for that jewish by-product, thank Science we got rid of its influence. Ever since that we live in a fantastic world with much less degeneracy, people live such happy and fulfilling lives and the jews are seething so hard at us for being atheistic ethnic-loving LGTV+ consoomers without tradition or defined morals, they're trying really hard to convert us back to their slave christian morality but we are too smart for them.

>>229419
You said it xister, all the goyim know is to worship non kosher food instead of G*d, shalom

>>229420
You won't see any of this faggotry in Mea Shearim or orthodox jewish towns, Israel's birthrate is single-handedly being carried by haredi kikes having 8 goblins each, meanwhile christianity has been completely wiped out of western countries, no place to escape other than the middle of a forest or a desert, and the government will try to make your life impossible so that you go back to the city.

>>229421
There are still churches of all kinds operating, maybe you should go and hang out with your fellow homos some time

>>229422
Not really interested in befriending any jews, unlike your compatriots from the subcontinent.

>>229423
I thought you worshiped the jew, looks like youre going to hell now