/wiz/ - Wizardry

that is a very complicated and round-about way to simply describe learning or studying

>>228502
Then I have poorly communicated the idea; I'm trying to get a handle on the distinction.

Studying and learning as the rational and sequential collection of domain knowledge is fine, that's its own thing. You read a textbook on how to do something and as a consequence are now literate in the problem space. I'm trying to grasp a different concept.

I believe there is some higher order function that such a process of reading and understanding something either requires, or constructs. And that it is temporary or otherwise transient as the mind resets to a baseline. If so, learning is essentially an outcome of said structure's operation and I think that without the structure you only get rote knowledge.

If that's true, I think it would be possible to optimise for the structure, and potentially maintain it long enough to raise the baseline.

Surface level reading of Marshall McLuhan seems to be approaching the idea from the opposite end - specifically that "forms of mediation reorganize consciousness independently of explicit content." I think that content can reorganise consciousness directly, and if so there should be an optimisable strategy for it.

Per chatgpt, a potentially testable formal hypothesis is:

Repeated immersion in structured symbolic forms (textual, musical, visual, ritual, mathematical) induces characteristic modes of attention, affect, inference, and temporal organization that can persist beyond the exposure interval and unrelated to the subject matter.

So the experiment where listening to Mozart's music had a detectable influence on spatial and temporal reasoning: https://www.artsedsearch.org/study/listening-to-music-enhances-spatial-temporal-reasoning-evidence-for-the-mozart-effect/ suggests it's a verifiable phenomenon.

It may perhaps be testable in a negative form, that say listening to discordant punk rock would make you detectably worse at something unrelated to the subject matter. Or perhaps being bombarded with talk radio and pop music through inescapable workplace contamination would affect the mind far beyond the physical aggravation of the sounds.

again, chatgpt suggests Neitzsche as an early observer of this with the insight that cognition is a physiological process, and like most can be exercised and somehow "self-authored".

>>228518
>Then I have poorly communicated the idea
no, some people are just retarded and have shit reading comprehension

>>228518
looks like you are describing the learning of learning, or metalearning then
obviously everyone must have learned how to learn at some point in their life, probably childhood after the basic physical behaviors are mastered
I hope I'm understanding what you are refering to
maybe we can understand this better by looking at dumb people who cannot learn, and try to see what is not present there

Honestly I don't get the point of all this. Why not just learning some practical skills like metalworking or bush-crafting, or cooking, something that will get some concrete applications in your daily life, and not just be some aesthetics mental gymnastic that just wastes your energy.

I may be missing something tho

>>228532
Not quite but that's an interesting divergence. I'd go so far as to suggest based on a lot of the encounters with The Youths i've experienced that they never *have* learned how to learn effectively, perhaps a simplistic form of pattern recognition ground into them through repetition and never actually engaging.

>>228584
Because the approach can determine the quality of the outcome. If you can read quickly and surface absorb the tasks and definitions of metal working it'd take you what? 1000 hours?

How wonderful would it be if by adding 20 hours of pre-learning exercise or self configuration, you could achieve the same level of mastery in 800? 500?

>>228496
>Engagement with structurally advanced texts and excellent rhetoric trains and temporarily optimises the mind into recurring modes of organization, attention, abstraction, and inference; repeated exposure can temporarily or semi-durably bias cognition toward those modes independently of propositional content.
In a way this sound like Reality Tunnels and Cognitive shifts.
Read Prometheus Rising and all RAW books.
Old Magic turn into Psychological to Magick and Chaos Magick and Psychonautics is a interesting topic around playing with the mind .
Call it Bias or Hypnosis, or Psychonautics or wathever field of science.
>Also
The morning thing is a Hypnosis thing to me
https://wizchan.org/dep/res/307395.html
>Repeated immersion in structured symbolic forms (textual, musical, visual, ritual, mathematical) induces characteristic modes of attention, affect, inference, and temporal organization that can persist beyond the exposure interval and unrelated to the subject matter.
In Magick we use language aka symbols to call or evoke sensations or thing. We use some techniques like colors, symbols, smells and etc to call these ideas.
>Or in simpler terms, in the same way that algebra & calculus trains the mind towards logical and methodical thought in the long term, I believe it's possible for works of illustration, music and literature to do so in the short term. If this is true, then it's advantageous to catalogue such art-efacts and optimise exposure to them.
This is one of theories of language, general semantics, logic etc, in same way in Modern models of Magick the language (Symbols and belief) create the reality (or Reality tunnel)
NLP have some similar beliefs bacause of bandler magick influence and some korbinsky and RAW influence and more, CBT Clynical Hypnosis do the same with trying to identify negative patterns, belief and routines making new more healthy good ones.
>I'm talking about the temporary mental structure. Meditation or such like, if it works, seems to work by selecting for facts and details, voluntarily emphasising inputs to get desired outputs.
Check Hypnosis CBT clynical ideas
>It should notionally be possible then, to exercise the mind in such a way that one or more patterns of thought and emphasis can be either cold stored, or reliably reconstructed with inputs on demand. I think genius lies in being able to do this at will and not rely on outside props, but i'm not a genius.
Memory arts, Hypnosis anchoring and triggers, mind palaces, there'more modern books around this.
In Chaos Magick people tend to shift their belief and reality tunnels.
>The inspiration for this idea came from reading Robert Carlyle in the morning and consequently having a very organised and effective day at work, but I've noticed it much earlier in the second and third novel of Kai Lung. In the later case, the pleasant but none-the-less non-trivial effort of very complex English usually leaves me in a "well spoken" state for quite some time. I originally put this down to simple mimicry but perhaps there's more to it.
Cognitive shift and change of mindset, peak experiences, read and live like Buddhist for two weeks and do the same again two week but around Christianity and see how your perspective of reality change (Reality tunnel) (Prometheus Rising exercises)
Some people get intense cognitive shift after peak experiences like reading VALIS and turn full schizo or like reading conspiracy theories.
>If this is true, consider the darker side - that it's possible to artificially construct and reinforce dysfunctional frames of mind, not just overloading the memory and attention with noise and conflict, but actually implant a structure of thought - at scale. If this was so, how well does it explain modernity.
>It may perhaps be testable in a negative form, that say listening to discordant punk rock would make you detectably worse at something unrelated to the subject matter. Or perhaps being bombarded with talk radio and pop music through inescapable workplace contamination would affect the mind far beyond the physical aggravation of the sounds.
There're some studies around brainwashing and manipulation or negative reinforcement etc, like mkultra and etc that lead to ideas like this, end in nothing all of the subjects end in destructive or suicidal behaviour or destroy their personality or and have traumas or make a new personality to cope trauma and become helpless in some ways.
In same way in Prometheus rising are exercises around this.
>How to learn
Repetition until perfection, positive mindset, relaxation, fixation and focus, spaciation memory study, mind palaces, physical exercise and eating healthy food, mnotecnics, constant exposition to the topic from morning wake up to night at sleep, teaching others, listening others, meditation.

>>228585
>Not quite but that's an interesting divergence
I wonder what you are speaking about then, "optimises the mind into recurring modes of organization, attention, abstraction, and inference" sounds a lot like it. Would also be good if you have some evidence for this mysterious thing you describe.

This thread makes me think about how it's a shame we don't have any real science of psychology instead they study this pseudoscientific nonsense at universities.
Psychology never grew into this real science like physics or chemistry did.
I bet there's barely any serious research about these hidden mental operations we are talking about.

he's probably just a traumatized szpdwiz trying to madly rationalize something that's going on with his life. every szpdwiz has been there at some point of his life at least once.

>>228496
>Engagement with structurally advanced texts and excellent rhetoric trains and temporarily optimises the mind into recurring modes of organization, attention, abstraction, and inference;
>repeated exposure can temporarily or semi-durably bias cognition toward those modes independently of propositional content.
>I'm talking about the temporary mental structure. Meditation or such like, if it works, seems to work by selecting for facts and details, voluntarily emphasising inputs to get desired outputs.
>The inspiration for this idea came from reading Robert Carlyle in the morning and consequently having a very organised and effective day at work, but I've noticed it much earlier in the second and third novel of Kai Lung.
>In the later case, the pleasant but none-the-less non-trivial effort of very complex English usually leaves me in a "well spoken" state for quite some time. I originally put this down to simple mimicry but perhaps there's more to it.

Maybe sound like Transportation Theory
>people become immersed in a story when they experience focused attention, emotional engagement, mental imagery, and a detachment from reality while reading. In this state, individuals tend to remember the story content better, adopt beliefs and attitudes more aligned with the narrative, and engage less critically with its content.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_theory_(psychology)
Kinda similar to imitative behaviour and emotional contagion and other things.
yep, Prometheus Rising have some exercises around that >>228586

>>228600
>wonder what you are speaking about then, "optimises the mind into recurring modes of organization, attention, abstraction, and inference" sounds a lot like it. Would also be good if you have some evidence for this mysterious thing you describe.
I dont know if the OP just used IA or ChatGPT but in a way sound like a lot of Techno-Psycho-babble but maybe i get it, he's talking about one in a way absorbing or gaining a new behaviour, routines and perspective of life or things based in the books or things he read like a brainwash or something and that in a way he improves a little or changes something about his personality, behavior, or perception of things. very Psychonautics thing, method actors sometimes use these things. fake it until it works.

>This thread makes me think about how it's a shame we don't have any real science of psychology instead they study this pseudoscientific nonsense at universities.
In general deep psychology is a mesh to study, Freud, Jung, and company made a lot of hey what if and made up theories or lore like a religion thing with zero evidence and say it work but with zero scientific proofs that make a lot of modern scientific turn critics around these schools of psychology (and to me are valid arguments)
>Psychology never grew into this real science like physics or chemistry did.
>I bet there's barely any serious research about these hidden mental operations we are talking about.
there're studies around brain and etc.
Now are some interesting studies around hypnosis and suggestions and placebos, today therapies have a lot of problems and for some more scientific people all therapies are just placebos so maybe hypnosis is more direct to placebos, but well some therapies have more support for help for some specific things.

>>228586
The Prometheus Rising thing originally was a Psychology Thesis around how mind work. RAW tested a lot of things around hypnosis, meditation, visualizations, rituals and physical and mind exercises and psychonautics thing and drugs tests, all to shift beliefs and in a way to turn agnostic if you want.
The 8 circuit model theory was related to leary works with drugs and others things like asian mysticism, and some people say that these guys are involved in some MKultra thing or some psyop thing of the goverment to mindcontrol or who fuck knows, Leary? maybe? who knows? but RAW? i dont believe.

>>228603
>Maybe sound like Transportation Theory
>people become immersed in a story when they experience focused attention, emotional engagement, mental imagery, and a detachment from reality while reading. In this state, individuals tend to remember the story content better, adopt beliefs and attitudes more aligned with the narrative, and engage less critically with its content.
interestingly RAW and his daughter Luna used to say that when you read something whether it's an author or something about a religion, along with their behaviors and ideas, the author is reincarnated within you Maybe that's what they meant lol
Absorbtion or flow around book narratives and soft tribalism behaviour contagion lol?

Kinda off-topic but I remember a thread from like 4 years ago, that talked about how perception and self-image could be used to develop habits, etc. The OP was written in a very similar, overly technical way. OP, are you the same guy that made that thread by any chance?
People were throwing around some very interesting ideas beyond the usual self improvement gimmicks, I wish I had saved that thread, or took a couple of screenshots.

>>228496
Lots of heavy words. There is no fixing the mind with the mind, especially with this abstract nonsense.

>>228609
can you post some screenshots? maybe you're talking about me, i wrote a lot about perception about 6-7 years ago, worked out a whole theory of how it works with graphs and everything. they called me "perceptionwiz" cuz i was constantly posting about it. i still have some notes from that arc saved on my computer.

https://files.catbox.moe/lh3rbx.png

it still holds up remarkably well, but ultimately it never lead to anything. i failed to find this mythical way of deconstructing perception and controlling it. i got disillusioned with psychotherapy as a concept in general and over the years i just go more mentally ill lmao

i think this >>228611 is fundamentally true. you need the right kind of experience to change the mind and sometimes you can compensate for it and pull it out of your ass through creative imagination (my experiences with tulpas have definitely changed my psyche), but ultimately the fastest way is to just act in the world and have it act upon you. the problem is that most wizards are avoidant so we just make our existing experiential poverty even worse. also, after a certain point, the brain is just less susceptible to change due to neuroplasticity getting worse, so at some point the timer runs out and not even real experience does anything. your personality stabilizes in your 20s and that's who you are for the rest of your life.

glib wont make you smart

>>228612

What do you advise for avoidant wiz/shut-in to get some more positive experiences ? What have you personally tried as the creator of this theory?

And btw ty for your post it is very enlightening.

>>228609
>can you post some screenshots?
I wish. I really should have screenshotted those threads or even archived them. There was a lot of interesting discussion going on about self-improvement that wasn't the usual garbage. I remember people were discussing how self-image could be used as motivation in lieu of raw willpower, kind of like when you watch a movie and start acting like a character from that movie, etc. Things like that.
also
>about 6-7 years ago
Yeah, that's what I meant. This must have been around 2020 which in my head is still "4 years ago" I guess. Time flies.

>>228615
i don't know, it's difficult. if you're scared of people, you need experiences of safety. if you feel inferior, you need experiences of being enough. when you're stuck in a particular perceptual frame, you need knowledge of a different frame that serves as an antidote. if you just go outside and seek it out, you might never find it, because it has to be a very specific experience, the world is chaotic and unpredictable, and most likely you'll just collect more trauma. but also, conjuring it up from nothing through meditation is also difficult, because you don't know what you don't know, like imagining the taste of chocolate if you've never had chocolate. i did it somehow, before i messed around with tulpamancy, i didn't understand love on an experiential level, it was just missing from my perceptual field completely. now that i have knowledge of that particular frame and i can access it whenever i want and it seems to trigger real neurochemical processes i.e. i can trigger oxytocin purely by imagining cuddling with my tulpa.

>>228616
you could probably find it through the wayback machine archive. the whole thing is a blur to me, i remember writing about this perception stuff in a bunch of different threads. the thread you remember was probably years later, i vaguely remember some guy talking about how he pretends he's a warrior or something to get into the mindset to exercise.

>>228603
>sound like a lot of Techno-Psycho-babble
yeah it's not really clear to me what he precisely means, various activities improve your attention, mental organisation, and capability for abstraction. Drinking some strong coffee does this simply
>Freud, Jung, and company made a lot of hey what if and made up theories
To me these theories are just nonsense, speculation at best
>for some more scientific people all therapies are just placebos
If taking a sugar pill each day does the same thing might as well take the sugar pill instead of spend time and money on therapy

>>228617
>conjuring it up from nothing through meditation is also difficult, because you don't know what you don't know, like imagining the taste of chocolate if you've never had chocolate.
You're experimenting with something interesting here anon. Read around Psychonautics.

>before i messed around with tulpamancy, i didn't understand love on an experiential level, it was just missing from my perceptual field completely. now that i have knowledge of that particular frame and i can access it whenever i want and it seems to trigger real neurochemical processes i.e. i can trigger oxytocin purely by imagining cuddling with my tulpa.
Check Metaprograming circuit in Prometheus Rising and compare to Tulpamancy and forcing… hehe
You use a lot your brain around language or maths… these thing in a way start that circuit, you know the latter.
Each circuit is non-local, its not lineal.

>i vaguely remember some guy talking about how he pretends he's a warrior or something to get into the mindset to exercise.
Assuption of the godform or Power pose, visualization self-hypnosis or method acting alter ego… read the book the myth of charisma if you want.
>Also
Read Prometheus Rising and do exercises, if you dont get read Cosmic Trigger 1.

>>228617
>you could probably find it through the wayback machine archive
I tried looking for a bit but I couldn't find it, and I don't feel like trawling through all those half dead links, so whatever.
>vaguely remember some guy talking about how he pretends he's a warrior or something to get into the mindset to exercise.
I mean, that might have literally been me. I remember posting something about how pretending to be a ninja in training helped me do my calisthenic exercise like push ups and pull ups(and also how that same "pretending" did not extend into motivating me to for example lift weights in the gym, because that doesn't fit the conceptual framing).
Yeah, interesting threads for sure, but I never really ended up figuring out how to fully utilize it. The biggest issue I faced is the constant back sliding. It's like when you watch a movie and start acting like the main character; it usually lasts for a week or two, then you're back to your old self. When you use your imagination to conceptually reframe your self-image you end up with the same problem of short duration.