No.228719
I want to talk to you about fate: does it exist or not? Honestly, I don't know. I won't claim to believe in it unconditionally, but I looked at my natal chart (Shoutout to my astrologer friend from the other thread! I know you're reading this). During this time, I've talked to magicians, psychologists, internet freaks, and even talked to AI. And, of course, I've tried to start my life from scratch many times. I've tried to find a job many times, but I've lost it. And now I'm 28 years old, guys. I just want to throw everything away. I'll be 30 in two years. I have no education, I've never really learned anything in my entire life, and I've spent half of it living off my parents. I'm literally a loser, a nobody. The older you get, the more clearly you realize: trying to start over doesn't work when you're in poor health. Let's be honest, many of us have lousy health; many of us rarely even go outside. Besides, there's no money for education, not to mention the strict regulations, the need to pass exams, and other difficulties. And I ask myself: did I even have a choice in how to live? Or was my life built from the very beginning according to some divine plan, a supercomputer, or something similar? After all, if you think about it, all my decisions have always turned out to be wrong. I constantly did the wrong thing, made mistakes out of stupidity or naivety. So, is everything predetermined? I'm still tormented by this question. If I were to get up tomorrow and say, "That's it, I'm leaving this life and I'm no longer a burden," I still wouldn't be able to change much. I won't become a doctor or a scientist at 30. External factors influence us too much. Does that mean that even my decision to change something tomorrow was already made not by me, but by someone else? And I just play out this scenario over and over again, and there was no real freedom of choice. But you know what's the scariest thing? It turns out that no matter what we do, we can't jump above our heads. As the saying goes: "Play stupid games, get stupid prizes" or "You can't teach an old dog new tricks." Actually, I want to ask you: do you believe in fate? Are we really destined to suffer our entire lives? I looked at myself: I'm 28, I haven't learned anything, and I just wasted this life. I wish I'd never been born.
No.228720
Yes, fate is the magical word for predeterminism. You have whatever genes you have and those you cannot change, you also cannot change whatever experiences you had in the past that shaped you as a person and will influence your actions throughout the rest of your life. Even what surrounds you is predetermined since it's controlled by the genetics of other beings and the laws of physics. You could try to turn your life around by using motivation, sure, but even motivation is mostly genetic and what isn't genetic is still out of your control. If after reading this "you" "decide" to take some action or not will still be predetermined.
But if you mean fate in the sense of "a higher invisible power has planned things in this or that way" then no, fate doesn't exist and even if a god did exist I doubt he would care much about humans just because our state of consciousness is higher than other animals, we'd still be ants to him. If you lived the same life you do now but in the middle ages you'd think it was god's fate to make you more privileged than 99.999% of humans who lived among poverty, war, plagues and famine, but since you live in the modern day you compare yourself with others who might live a better life than yours and you think it was god's fate to punish you.
No.228721
>>228719>fatedoesn't exist
No.228722
Of course it exists, even if reality was not completely predetermined physically (like it is), there would be a whole bunch of stuff that determines who you are and what you will do. First of all you have a body determined by genetics, second you have an environment that shapes you in a certain way, third you have a family that educates you in a peculiar way, and so forth…there is really little that we can do and it is mainly a moral standing like choosing not to kill, rape and steal. But even then you may experience a situation that makes you lose control over your own body and mind and you go straight to jail.
No.228723
>>228719Predetermined fate may exist but it's stupid to assume you already know what the rest of your life may be. For all you know you could turn everything around tomorrow and even if you know that you have a 99.99% chance of failing what are you going to do? Unless you are going to kill yourself immediately the only way is to crawl forward. I agree with determinism but determinist posters here like to bundle it together with pessimism or fatalism which you don't have to. Defying fate is a theme as old as mankind found in stories such as the Iliad or Epic of Gilgamesh. The heroes still failed despite all their gifts but the struggle is still preferrable to accepting decay.
No.228724
I the same that you. I'm almost the same age as you. I also don't learn a shit. I want to kill myself im very scared man
No.228725
Man, I was crying in a thread about almost the same thing that this and it was deleted wtf
No.228726
>>228724Thread author here I understand you wizard I understand you very well
No.228727
>>228720>You have whatever genes you have>Even what surrounds you is predetermined since it's controlled by the genetics of other beingsThe consequences of these factors isn't predetermism. Conscious humans decided to come together, through an act of free will, to mix their genes and procreate. This free decision resulted in the genetic makeup of you and others. You being unable to go back in time to make your parents unfuck doesn't validate the concept of predeterminism. It defines history. Calling history and your genetic makeup "predetermined" is no different than if some dude walked up to you and grabbed your balls, then you blaming predeterminism because at some point that man was groomed in to being a homosexual by two people (acting on free will) and that mental warping gave him the inspiration to fondle your sack. If you think free will doesn't exist you are probably a bag bouncer yourself.
No.228728
>>228726What are you doing right now? Are you studying or something?
No.228729
>>228728No, I recently lost my job again. I worked for 4 months.
No.228736
>>228729>>228729> I recently lost my job againwhy?
No.228738
im a 35 year old neet wizard, i have never had a job, cant drive a car, and of course am a virgin.
I realized when i turned 30 it was over, i was in for the long haul. And i was blessed enough to have perants who dont care if im a loser and let me live with them
Is it fate? maybe a little, but at the same time i realize its also due to lack of action being taken by your own self. you realize no one is going to come and save you, your choices are take action or rot.
in my 20s i used to relate to the character renton from trainspotting, the ending made me hype, like thats me, im going to do it too, im going to break out of this, but i never did.
So i have embraced being a neet, its not too bad, whats the point of life anyways? to work yourself to death so you have 20 years of retirement when you get old?
I have all the time in the world, to get in shape, to read books, to learn things, to make things. Im big into poetry and painting.
No.228739
>>228736There's a long story there (and some personal information there) but in short, my boss was a psychopath and he tried to manipulate me into sending me to a very bad place. As a result, I quit in a scandal.
>>228738I can drive and have worked in many places, but I have noticed a pattern: I always make the same mistakes, always stupid and childish. I have always envied those who have built a good career or received a higher education. Honestly, I don’t want to lie; I would be happy to live the life of ordinary people with all their flaws and difficulties (yes, what’s wrong with having problems, for example, that your wife cheated on you and decided to leave, or that you are the boss of a company and the mafia came to you, or you are a policeman or a soldier who has worn out his legs and after a serious episode becomes a man, and you know that this is life, than sitting at home at 28. And guys, no offense, guys, I love you all, but let's be honest, we would all prefer to drink beer and have sex with succubi at 20 than sit on this forum). I don’t envy my life even to my worst enemy; I even thought about suicide. But I'm glad if you're 35 and your parents can support you instead of tormenting you; it's truly a better path than working as a cleaner or a loader for pennies. You know, if you realized this at 30, I realized it now, at 28. At my last job, where I saw my ordinary colleagues (my age or younger) achieve something in life, it really hits your ego, but most of all, it hits you in the face when your life is wasted. I saw people find their place in life and achieve success very quickly. I saw how easily ordinary people get hired for ordinary jobs in their early twenties, and how others didn't even want to hire me at 20, even to wash floors in a store. I just realized that with all this nonsense, you either rot at home or remain a loser for pennies (and envy ordinary people for how good their lives are). Better to rot at home or in a mental hospital.
No.228740
>>228719I agree with these two here
>>228720>>228722Outside of your genetic/environmental mix there isn't a whole lot of breathing room for something like free will or agency I think. I am also 28, living in my mothers' basement, starting a menial (though hopefully easygoing) job soon. I have failed at higher education. I don't have much money despite having worked part time gigs for over a decade, being too stupid or unable to properly consider my future and rather spending it on whatever pleasures I wanted in the moment. And I knew even a decade ago that I would turn out this way. Now some might call this a self fulfilling prophecy or whatever but it's not like I haven't made attempts to change, same as you. Falling for various schemes or philosophies in order to escape my current self. Thinking at times that rigorous exercise or ridding myself of superfluous material possessions or whatever it might have been at the time would absolve me of feeling doomed.
Of course though, nothing changed. If anything, I have only become more misanthropic, reclusive and apathetic towards people and life in general. But when I look back in my past and look for some fork in the road, some choice I could've made that might have led me down a different path, I can't see one. I made the best choices that were available to me at the moment. The only way I could've made different choices would be if I'd already been a different person back then capable of choosing and acting so, or having different circumstances. In other words, my life unfolded the only possible way it could have.
Whether you call this fate or not is up to you. Is a tree fated to grow tall, shed its leaves each fall and so on? Or is it just the way it is. That's what I think anyways.
No.228742
I think fate is something kind of like momentum. There's a natural result given the current state of things, but it can be changed if someone uses their free will to do so.
However, the closer you get to an event or a condition the harder it is to do this. Sometimes you are too close and it becomes impossible to modify, but I think the general case is more that you can steer it a bit.
No.228743
>>228739>There's a long story there (and some personal information there) but in short, my boss was a psychopath and he tried to manipulate me into sending me to a very bad place. As a result, I quit in a scandal.>>228738> i was blessed enough to have perants who dont care if im a loser and let me live with themIt isn't a blessing, dude
No.228744
>>228743>It isn't a blessing, dudebetter than living on the streets
No.228746
>>228744>better than living on the streetsthat would make u move your ass
No.228747
Thinking mistakes lead people to believe in fate.
They use a very limited way of thinking and when several consequences come together they don't even try to understand it except "fate did it".
No.228752
no, fate only exists in CIS, i'm sorry it had to you
No.228753
>>228752had to be. agrrhhhh my eyes fail me
No.228773
>>228747All low IQ societies handwave things away with "fate". Here in Morocco fate belief is extreme. No matter how badly YOU fucked up or how many mistakes you made, people blame fate.
If governing authorities are incompetent they are not challenged, it's just something God willed. If you refuse to go to the doctor and die, it was "fate", not you being a retard.
I still don't understand why I had to be born into this poor hellhole. I'm also the only person with a uni degree within a roughly 50km2 radius. No economic or political connections = no job except maybe food delivery.
No.228774
>>228773Self-criticism is not an option for low IQ people as individuals but especially as aggregates.
No.228776
>>228773>I still don't understand why I had to be born into this poor hellholeFate?
No.228781
>>228773>I still don't understand why I had to be born into this poor hellhole.
you were born into such a place to save it! It is your fate
No.228804
>>228719loooool. thanks for the laugh makes me feel better about myself.
No.228825
>>228804huuuh but why are you here mister lainon?
No.228854
>>228773Moroccans in my country are infamous for dealing drugs and other criminal activity. It doesn't surprise me their country is a shithole.
No.228860
>>228854Low IQ coupled with aggression always leads to violent crime or drug dealing.
You look at immigrants like the Chinese, they work 16 hours a day in their own business, they put their second gen children into elite schools, they sacrifice their own life for their kids and grandkids to climb the social ladder.
It all comes down to predisposition and genetics. Some people are dumber and more violent than others genetically.
No.228863
>>228860That's why they're far more insidious. If all you had to deal with was low IQ, aggressive niggers, you'd still be in fine shape.
No.228868
>>228860It doesn't really matter, high civ people like asians and whites just move once these people start dominating the neighbourhood