/wiz/ - Wizardry

this is crap
it presents an image of how a human being should develop and claims this is actually how it does
for example people in the 19th century developed maturity very quickly and could be seen as psychologicaly adults in their teens
there's also too many personalities and quirks for this to be accurate

>>229046

Consider however that the 19th century had:

Strict and largely inescapable career paths - if you even got into one.

Limited education, but with largely uniform (two tier) content optimised for market value OR strategic thinking

Large and active family groups with further social development expected when it wasn't explicitly required by the local culture (e.g. freemasons lodges, workplace unions, church socials, pubs etc.)

true for most ages of humanity, with the 19th century also having:

Consistent and dramatic expansion of resources under management

New industries invented in the space of a year with immense economic consequence

all of those combined did the work in the image as second and third order effects. In the modern age where the majority of families end in divorce, where the average period of continuous employment is 4-5 years, where entire industries shut down overnight, where communities are actively balkanised and managed as a resource to be exploited and where labour unions are painted as a hostile foreign force - all of those steps have to be taken intentionally.

>>229046
Stunted adults maybe

How many people do you think actually get a chance to fully develop?

The vast majority of people do not have emotional intelligence

>>229038
Hilarious to be in the second "bad" part of each of these.

I hit 30 not too long ago, been trying to see if there is anything at all that I could reasonably do to change.
Feel like for the most part I'm already set in stone. Every "improvement" feels fake and deep down I know I'd just be pretending.

I hate these things because to me it looks like more analysis, more observation, reaching the same conclusions that I am fundamentally broken in ways I can't undo.

Maybe I'm too feeble minded to properly use these things, but I don't believe mental work can undo what real physical things did to you. idk if that makes any sense.
Searching for solutions inside your head when it's your head that is an accumulation of all kinds of problems.
Can't think myself into becoming unstunted.

Since you say therapy helped, would you be willing to expand on how and why? You mention the realization, so? What was the actual solution to that?
Reading through your link to me it looks like just another way one can look at cause and effect. As with most psych shit I never see the fix.

fascinating, i wanna read that when i'm sober but the picture has been thought-provoking already in a unsober state!

>>229049
most of humanity was hanging on by their fingernails and scraping by and procreating before their brains even fully develop that ability for that level of EQ…
and by the time they reach that point, stress from raising a family under the conditions usually defers that emotional work for the next generation, and so the cycle of samsara continues

>>229047
Erikson presents the human experience as following a strict pattern of 8 conflicts. Yet there are too many personal decisions and personalities present for this to be accurate.
What if you prefer neeting and reading in your twenties instead of developing social relationships and working and are satisfied by it?
You can also develop a sense of mistrust/trust, identity or despair at any age for any reason.
It's just another 'human being as replacable widget' theory these psychologists tend to produce.

>>229063
Conceded; it's a Procrustean solution.

That said, there is utility in having *some* standard or metric to assess development against, however crude or overfit, so as to spend less time re-inventing the categories from first principles and more on useful interventions.

In that NEET case it's more a question of compounding value over time. Perhaps best use of the eight steps there suggest one optimal use of time and context, and the primary concern likely to face the average person at that stage. With outliers supported by modern technology and institutions as, well, outliers.

>>229064
okay

i don't care. there might be truth to it. i don't believe it though.

>>229055
Most prehistoric people who managed to procreate, were grandparents by age 40.

In this sick age we live in, these people are still "pondering" whether they should have their first kid and are genuinely surprised when they have no viable eggs left.

>>229070
Can't eggs be frozen now?

Many truwiz weren't born until their mother was basically 40.

>>229073
Only by wealthy people and there is no guarantee the pregnancy will succeed.

Age of the father matters as well. 45+ = high autism and non-NT risk and also down syndrome risk.

>>229049
In the 19th century teenagers married, started families, became medical doctors and naval officers, cooperated in various scientific and technological breakthroughs, worked alone in factories or as servants, practiced religion.
Compare this to the current average confused twenty-something and you see this isn't really true

>>229090
>Compare this to the current average confused twenty-something and you see this isn't really true
You are really overestimating the confidence of the average 19th century young adult. People were not confident, they were forced. Even Nietzsche was lamenting how german education forced young people to choose one career for life too early in life when they are still clueless (he was talking about early 20 somethings!). In that respect we haven't changed the least. We just have more room to wiggle in since college is easier to get into and is now adult daycare.

>cooperated in various scientific and technological breakthroughs
You're probably thinking about post-war US. The 19th century name-of-the-game was humanist academia (history, philosophy, philology..).

>>229090
You could also make a good case that the majority of people were confronted with non-artificial necessity at a much earlier age.

>>229091
I dont think you really have an argument, 19th century people definitely lived their lives quickly and efficiently, lots of people don't even live this trajectory in the 21st century but live this extended childhood (compared to back then)
>>229092
homeownership, quality of food and immaterial things like sense of community were better back then, all we have is tech and less rigid morals/ less strict social hierarchy

because in 19th century there were things to be done, in 21th century all western manufacturing is done by jeets and chinamen, so westerners just turned into a civilization of manbabies.

>>229038
Development is like water, its take little to make it flow, but also little squander it around.