/dep/ - Depression

Nothing is worth putting effort into it. I don't feel excitement or joy. I'm basically living off the fact that I overcame some sort of psychosis, derealization, dissociation and numbness states of mind and now I just exist without these which often is just enough, but there's no silver line, no net positive feeling, just the lack of extreme discomfort which keeps me going.

Psylocybin mushrooms helped me a lot. It felt like my mind was disassembled, analyzed, and unnecessary parts were discarded. Then rebuilt with a simpler, but more robust and coherent structure. I no longer hold false beliefs, don't take anything for granted, and avoid making assumptions. That allows me to appreciate life because I'm aware how much worse things could be.

Anhedonia is kind of a luxury state. It's like being blinded by all the things you think you're missing out on, that you don't realize the comfort of not lying in a ditch with your lower half blown off by a grenade.

I got a lot done today. A normal person would feel satisfied, maybe even proud of himself. But I just feel tired and I regret wasting time on these "achievements".

I did a three hour walk without a phone today and today I enjoyed youtube and whatever I'm doing every day like 15% more. Should I keep doing the walks?

>>297755
I would do shrooms but I'm afraid of long term trip induced psychosis as I believe I'm prone to it.
>>297797
Relatable. The satisfaction from these achievements used to last some days for me even in my early 20s, now it's at best an hour in my 30s.
>>297800
Yes, last time I did a 2.5 hours walk I could enjoy media for the rest of the day, else I don't enjoy it at all or maybe only a few minutes.

you need some kind of worthwhile goals to work towards. the pleasure you get from food and through your senses in general, is different from the pleasure you get from everyday goal-oriented activities. a lot of neets end up anhedonic because they just cut off all the possible natural sources of reward in their environment. if you don't go outside, work, have social relationships, you basically have nothing to derive pride, self-efficacy or a meaningful progression from. video games simulate it to some degree, but you spend enough time bing-bing wahooing and you realize there's nothing at the end but a digital trophy.

so yeah, you need worthwhile, meaningful goals that you can work towards every day and that bring you satisfaction. there's usually several psychological barriers that will make it difficult, but they can be overcome. the first step is to actually CARE about something, which can be a problem if you've learned that caring about things makes life more difficult for you, so you cope with nihilism. the second step is to actually believe you're competent and that you can achieve whatever worthwhile thing you care about. changing beliefs is not about repeating mantras or tricking yourself, it's about /evidence/. you need to demonstrate to yourself through experience that you are capable, which can be a problem if you're actually not that competent.

once you care about something and you believe you have the capability to get it, you start to receive pleasure from doing activities that visibly move you towards that goal. and that's all there is to it.

>>297806
>you need some kind of worthwhile goals to work towards.

I actually have some worthwhile goals but the problem is I only feel joy in spikes and need a strong impulse to feel anything at all. It sounds absurd but I want to start drawing for 10 years now. It's my dream to draw well. If I had a choice between 1 million and instant drawing mastery I would rather be able to draw. But I could never get started because it takes so LONG to get good and I feel 0 joy from the kind of progress you make day to day. And everything worthwhile is like this. So now I'm stuck being miserable not really enjoying consoming but also not being able to do anything meaningful.

>>297753
I have certain daydreams and storylines that I conjure up whenever I listen to specific songs. Sometimes I get really invested and it sparks some emotion within me. It makes me feel anger, loss, sadness and something else I cannot really word.
Certain amounts of discomfort help me too, I think. Or just getting away from my digital escapism for a while. Getting some novels on my ereader and not using the computer for a few days. My presence and awareness feels different then, less detached, more direct.

>>297806
What IS my goal? What do I believe in?

>>297806
You must be young? I'm old enough that i have set difficult long term goals for myself and achieved them, only to see starkly that it will never bring satisfaction. Goals are a form of delusion used to manipulate you into focusing on a scammy mirage in the future while suffering all along the path. Buddhism and trying to find peace with what you have now is all you can do. Trying to change the future with sheer painful effort is futile, it's not within your control.

>>297813
>What IS my goal?
some imagined future state of the universe that you consider desirable, valuable, preferable to other possible states. objectively it doesn't matter, since many people get hooked on video games that have completely arbitrary goals, this shows that the underlying neurochemistry doesn't care what you aim for, as long as it perceives movement in that direction.

>What do I believe in?
what you predict and expect will happen on a subconscious level (an internal predictive model of reality), built through years of lived experience (collected evidence), and expressed to yourself and others through the use of language.

a lot of people think you can change beliefs by changing your thoughts or what you say to yourself, but the basis of your beliefs is lived experience and language can rarely poke a hole in that. using language to change beliefs only results in cognitive dissonance, a brief uncomfortable moment where you can sense the conflict between what you know is true and what you are saying is true, a built-in bullshit alarm signal that many try to ignore and cannot outrun.

>>297819
enlightened monks like yourself need not apply, you can go meditate under the bodhi tree and feel eternal bliss. the rest of us need goals in order to keep our neurochemistry at bay, we need various activities to take up our time and let us make progress and move towards some perceived better future, otherwise we end up anhedonic. striving has it's own disadvantages, but it's the lesser evil compared to nihilism.

>>297809
if you're not getting any pleasure from doing the work, it all comes back to the psychological barriers i mentioned. you either don't care about the goal, or you don't believe that you can achieve it, or you are not making visible progress. there are many people that try to achieve the goals set out for them by their parents or society, so they go about it half-heartedly simply to appease that sense of doing what they're supposed to be doing. then there are those that truly care about the goal, but they try to do it and fail and they don't perceive themselves as being able to reach the goal. again, beliefs are not about what you say to yourself, but what you have evidence for. if you manage to draw something impressive by following some specific training, this is evidence that you are capable. i'm sure you've drawn your fair share of boxes and doddles, but that's not enough to convince yourself that you can be an artist.

also, the more far-fetched the goal, the better. achieving your goal in the end feels good, but you realize that you now need a new goal or you quickly return to emptiness. our psychology requires constant movement towards something. fortunately for you, the universe is endlessly complex and there is no shortage of worthwhile things to aim for.

i just want to enjoy videogames and tv shows im not even talking life in general

>>297823
it might not be obvious, but fiction also works in a goal-oriented way. a good story will start by presenting some characters and their problems, giving you a "promise" that things could be different, then gives you incremental "progress" in a satisfying way and then finishes it off with a "payoff" that can be what you expect or even a twist that plays with your expectations.

to enjoy a piece of fiction, you need to first care about the characters and their problems, then you have to continually see visible progression and then finally a satisfying resolution.

for video games, it's trickier because they're not always about narrative, but they do have to present a problem or goal, that, again, you have to CARE about, then they have to be designed in such a way that progression is satisfying so you don't lose interest. all kinds of variables will affect your enjoyment, mainly skill, since if you're a bad player or too good, the progression isn't satisfying.

>>297824
how can I make myself care?

the walls
such they be
are crawling with
G E O M E T R I C       H A L L U C I N A T I O N S

>>297827
you have to stop being a nihilist and learn that you won't get hurt if you become invested in things and people. get a plant or pet and take care of it and take responsibility for what happens to it. learn to love it despite how many times it shits itself on the carpet. think of how you could make it's life better and put effort into making it a reality.

art is one of the few things I kinda enjoy. But most things I don't care about. I stopped caring about football sóquer (which is very popular here in LatAm), and little by little stopped caring about my cycling hobbie. Recently I discovered I don't care about traveling and had an awful experience, besides feeling alienated even more from my siblings and family…

>>297829
IRL im not invested in anything thats true, but im trying to get invested in games, shows etc. Theres just no emotion involved. Im kinda curious about things intelectually, but im just not excited, not happy when happy things happen, not sad when sad things happen, empty

>>297831
My therapist told me that I had to step out of my comfort zone more often. In the beginning negative emotion (discomfort, awkwardness etc) are all you can hope for. If you're anything like me you likely have pulled back over the years and are doing less and less things that you find annoying or otherwise unpleasant. I often rationalize about why doing a certain thing isn't worthwhile or useful or that I can do it in a different, more efficient way but it's all avoidance. There is no positive emotion without negative. The brain is a seesaw.

>>297832
Yeah I stopped all formal education and not looked for jobs pretty much ever.

>>297834
I'm still officially in college but I never go to my classes, I've seen the campus a handful of times in the 5 years I've been enrolled. Just showing up is daunting to me at this point. Of course, without going through the discomfort of attending class I rob myself of whatever possible positive experience I might have. Dunno if I can change though. Godspeed wiz.

>>297801
>>297800
I already walk 60 minutes a day, would triplling it be that helpful? I can confirm walking for an hour a day surely does help my mental health and helps me to relieve the boredom of my daily empty NEET life.