/dep/ - Depression

>Maybe things would’ve turned out differently.
You would be forced to take pills that make your brain and testicles shrink.

spoiler: it wouldn't. you'd just have a permanent record that you're crazy and forced to take dangerous drugs that give you brain damage.

yeah i'd rather live and suffer natural brain damage, than live and suffer jewish pill brain damage

they will just abuse and exploit you, so many interactions with the mental health system have negative value, i'm surprised they are still afloat
must be government handouts and monopolisation

>>309770
but what if you genuinely need help? if the one system intended to stop your mental suffering actually makes it worse, who can help?

>>309790
I came to the conclusion that the main flaw of the mental health system is its tendency to suck you in and once you are affiliated with it it's very hard to become independent of it be it medically or in a symbolic/ linguistic way as their methods of producing acceptable self narratives are probably much stronger than most advertisement measures. Like, you are in a bad condition mentally and you don't know what to do and you feel like you can't overcome this condition yourself and you also don't know much about this stuff (maybe some theory but the personal experience is unknown to you) and you don't seem to find much help online and they recommend if you are seriously feeling bad then go meet a professional - that's when they have you. And then the whole mental health journey begins. And it seems really convincing at first, someone is there for you to listen, someone you ascribed competence and the ability to cure your condition. But after some time you'll realise that's not how it works, because change only can come from within and by changing your life conditions, but not by the mental health system at all, at best they might with a low probability help to give some input which might put you on the right track but it's actually dependent on a myriad factors from social life to upbringing family nation income etc etc and it's actually a miracle if mental health system works it almost exclusively implies that your surrounding environment is already very stable. But then you are already sucked in and you adopt the mind set that you can't do anything by yourself without external help, and further more you kind of forget what actually caused your condition and your in for decades of wondering what's wrong with you accepting the illness mind set. While in fact maybe you were just missing a car or 100 000 dollars which would cure you immediately, but mental health system would never give you 100 000 dollars not even a dime but they earn 100000 with you the longer you keep coming back to them the better.

>>309790
>but what if you genuinely need help?
>who can help?
You are your only help. The entire idea of "I need someone's help to not feel sad" is a carryover from when you were a small child. As an adult man you're the only one who can make yourself feel better. No psychiatrists, therapists, or rent-a-mommy can do you any good. Only finding out why you're feeling so low and working towards rectifying it is going to help.

>the one system intended to stop your mental suffering
It's not. These systems are intended to keep you pacified so you don't go out and kill other people as a coping mechanism for feeling bad. Drugs and psuedo-psychotherapy fulfill that duty, so there's no need or want for the workers in this system to put in any care towards your mental state beyond just giving you those bare minimums.

>>309747
I was in an psychatric hospital for four weeks. nothing changed in my life

Success in some thing is how you cure /dep/

>>309798
What do you mean the entire idea of relying on others for mental help is a carryover from when you were a kid? Is your mind not part of your body? Is absolutely any kind of emotional pain and suffering something trivial that you can fix yourself? If you break your leg or hurt yourself badly otherwise, do you also refuse medical attention because you can fix it yourself? Do not disregard the entire concept of mental assistance in itself like it's something made up and no kind of issue of this sort warrants help. Unless, of course, I got what you said wrong
>These systems are intended to keep you pacified so you don't go out and kill other people as a coping mechanism for feeling bad. Drugs and psuedo-psychotherapy fulfill that duty, so there's no need or want for the workers in this system to put i
This might be true, I'm not refuting this in it's entirety. But see, you admit that there's also real, helpful psychotherapy out there if you call the bad kind pseudo-therapy. If there's the pseudo kind, there must be the helpful type too

>>309820
>What do you mean the entire idea of relying on others for mental help is a carryover from when you were a kid?
Because it's what babies and distressed children do as a result of them not having the cognitive abilities to rationalize why they're feeling bad, then form solutions to the problems or conclude that such sadness is inappropriate to feel at the given situation.
>Is absolutely any kind of emotional pain and suffering something trivial that you can fix yourself?
Yep! How, pray tell, can you even conceive of a way in which anyone [b[BESIDES[/b] yourself can possibly heal your own mental anguish? Nobody has access to your inner thoughts, nor a way to measure the the scope and unique attributes of what you're feeling beyond what you can only vaguely explain through simple language. Your mental state is a machine that nobody - not even you - has the blueprints to, but you alone at least have the ability to look under the hood and try to deduce though reasoning what might be wrong with it.
>If you break your leg or hurt yourself badly otherwise, do you also refuse medical attention because you can fix it yourself?
Bad comparison; everybodies' bones get damaged and heal the exact same way. Their state and progression is physically observable. I don't go to the doctor and describe with words the exact intricacies of the pain and suffering I'm feeling at the break, and then have him try to figure out a catered healing procedure for my particular unique variety of bonehurt. I get the same bandage as everyone else and it works.
>But see, you admit that there's also real, helpful psychotherapy out there if you call the bad kind pseudo-therapy
The "real" psychotherapy I'm referring to is the kind I described: that which comes from within. External psychoptherapy is pseudo-psychotherapy because it can only do one good thing, and that is to convince a man to use his own brain to sort his own issues out. Commercial psychotherapy can only work to defeat its own necessity. It can also fail to do this, and lead men in to believing that they aren't curable without them even being given the idea to introspect. So it either "works" by proxy or fails in a catastrophic way that incurs hopelessness on the man who becomes ever worse off mentally as a result. The latter, of course, is the most common outcome because every patient is a customer. The man is led astray, is convinced he is hopeless, diagnosed as incurable, the prescribed perpetual treatment in the form of drugs and routine psychological talk sessions with some doctor who has no incentive to get to the root of anyone's problems.

I again ask, what exactly can a psychotherapist even say or do to make a clinically depressed man feel better? Because I honestly can't even imagine. If the psychotherapist says stuff like "Don't worry, always remember happy day", and that cures the man, then that just reinforces my suggestion that the depressed guy was emotionally a small child because he could have thought up those words on his own, but he lacked the cognition to do so and needed someone else (an adult) to do the basic thinking for him. To be so reliant on external validations, affirmations, and instruction is literally what sorts the boys from the men.

>>309829
this is a massive cope but i commend you resolve

>Because it's what babies and distressed children do as a result of them not having the cognitive abilities to rationalize why they're feeling bad
So if someone gets an infection and goes to the doctor to have their disease cured, they're a distressed child?
>Yep! How, pray tell, can you even conceive of a way in which anyone [b[BESIDES[/b] yourself can possibly heal your own mental anguish?
Uhh, by sharing it?
>Bad comparison; everybodies' bones get damaged and heal the exact same way.
Nah, it's not a bad comparison at all. And no, bones do not get shattered and require the exact same steps to heal, there are dozens of factors to consider. The same goes for any disease
>that which comes from within. External psychoptherapy is pseudo-psychotherapy
If all the answers to everything you've ever imagined always came from within, people wouldn't ever feel the need to share knowledge, share thoughts and emotions and help each other. You can't do everything on your own. Historically, if everyone did nothing but trust their inner monologue for everything, there would be no progress or civilization in any form, everyone would just be a total mute for 80 years, record no knowledge, achieve nothing groundbreaking and then die for nothing
>If the psychotherapist says stuff like "Don't worry, always remember happy day", and that cures the man
That's not what happens in psychotherapy. You can't even use that example for the purpose of a simplified comparison because it's not even remotely what happens during psychotherapy

>>309792
Maybe, just maybe

>>309834
>So if someone gets an infection and goes to the doctor to have their disease cured, they're a distressed child?
What level of mental retardation are you operating on? Do you not understand basic English? You've missed the point so entirely that you've strawmanned the argument in to one you're actually able to refute. The entire point of that segment of the discussion is to differentiate "sad feels in my brain" from "actual physical damage to the body", and how the treatment protocols for each aren't simply interchangeable. If you believe those to be the same thing fundamentally and therefore that they can be treated the exact same way - with casts and pills - then you may as well double your dose of whatever SSRIs and other feel-good drugs you're taking so that people on the internet don't need to have their time wasted by your inability to think in simple abstracts.
>Uhh, by sharing it?
That's not what was asked. I asked for treatment. Treatment beyond the therapist saying some basic reassuring shit. You again also missed the point that words can only go so far, and the ears of the listener can only take in so much. Unless the psychotherapist has felt the exact same depression that her client is feeling at the time, and the client manages to express his anguish with total eloquence and completeness, there will always be massive gaps between how the man feels and what the doctor knows. But again, regardless of how well an understanding forms, it still begs the question of exactly what the fuck can psychotherapists do to cure depression?
>bones do not get shattered and require the exact same steps to heal, there are dozens of factors to consider.
Actual bathtub shitter autism on display. A REAL DOCTOR HAS XRAYS, MRIs, BLOOD TESTS, AND YEARS OF HEALING THE SAME BONE all to give him the answer as to what needs to be done. A "mental health doctor" has the current facial expression and selection of sad words to work with when determining the severity and reasoning behind her client's depression. The real doctor can fulfill his duty to heal the bone consistently. The psychotherapist's chance of success is in the hands of the patient, and his ability to compose his feelings and expose his inner traumas or whatever.

>If all the answers to everything you've ever imagined always came from within, people wouldn't ever feel the need to share knowledge, share thoughts and emotions and help each other.
You did it again. You took the claim that "Only a man can know how he's truly feeling" and interpreted it as me saying "Men don't need to discuss their feelings and ideas ever". You are fucking stupid beyond reason.

>>309858
So confirmed you really are a complete and total retard and a shit for brains nigger with nothing to back your claims? That seems to be the only veritable conclusion here, seeing that you're an ESL thirdie and even this guy right here >>309833 recognized just how fucking retarded and genuinely stupid you are, lol

>>309864
>nothing to back your claims?
I've done nothing but ask for anyone to explain how psychotherapy actually works, and what psychotherapists actually do. I've only made the claims that much of young mens' emotional turmoil can be rectified through introspection without any sort of outside help, and that the healing process for emotional and mental issues aren't as straightforwrd as healing physical ailments.

You crabs in a bucket wear your supposed depression on your shoulder as if it's your entire personality. Even your attempt at offending me was just you pathetically turning what I said about that guy back on me (NO U). You end with "lol" but your ass is cherry red because I dared to question the holy pill gods and the psycho-rapists who prescribe human sacrifices to them.

not part of the above exchange, but i just want to point out that there are over 100 different types of therapies:
https://www.goodtherapy.org/learn-about-therapy/types

so what a psychotherapist does in the session can wildly differ, not only based on methodology but also skill-level, experience and qualifications. the way they conceptualize your problems and approach them can be differ in complex ways. for example, in CBT you're trained to deal with things "rationally" by treating the symptom like a result of bad, illogical thinking. in EMDR, the symptom is caused by some unprocessed trauma and you need to move your eyes a certain way for it to trigger the "processing". in Gestalt therapy, you might imagine a problematic parental figure and confront them about their abuse using the Two chairs technique. in Focusing-based therapy, you would use a special technique to get a grasp on your "felt sense", this implicit sense of the problem in your body, give it words so that it can "move forward" and experience a "felt shift", that fundamentally changes the shape of the problem and how its expressed.

so asking "does psychotherapy work" makes no sense, it's better to think of it as a collection of tools that can work with the mind in order to bring about psychological change/transformation. and like every tool, you have to use the right one with the right problem, and also be skilled enough to apply it, or notice when it's not helping and just making something worse. most psychotherapists aren't the best at this, they might know one or two tools and apply it to everything, force it when it clearly doesn't work and generally just aren't very good at their job. i think it's much better to become your own psychotherapist and master as many tools as possible and learn to apply them on yourself.

>>309866
Observe the brownoid having an all-out melty right here lol. What's the matter? You mad people here put you in your place when you tried to deliberately harm others by spouting all that nonsense about psychotherapy? I swear these retarded teens just keep swarming the place with their /pol/ tier dogshit takes without even knowing what they're talking about. Thankfully now anyone who visits this thread will know better than to be discouraged from trying to get the mental help they need, so your shitty sabotage attempt has failed.

>>309890
>He needs to imagine that the person he's arguing with is a screaming, angry, shitskin from 4cuckshitchannel /politics/ who's totally not having a normal one
>This is his defense mechanism against the reality that opinions contrary to his own worldview are quite common and normal
>He lives in fantasy world where he's the smart one and everyone else are blubbering non-Whites

Now I understand. The psychotherapist who the government pays for you to talk to is your only friend in the world, and I've offended her honor.

>>309899
why do you think it's a succubus by the way

my mom made me go to a psych ward some years ago, ever since then i have been forced to be on an anti psychotic injection, i do get free retard money in the form of ssi though.

To tell you the truth i think my psychotic episode was a one time transient thing, but you try explaining you are sane to people.

oh, and some months ago a nurse got concerned about my blood pressure being high and now i have to go to a GP for blood pressure pills.

My cozy neet life is interrupted by this shit twice a month

>>309790
>intended to stop your mental suffering
these things have their origins in the old insane asylums, which were mostly to keep the insane outside of society, some people suffering from insanity also voluntarily went into there
doctors also marketed and sold all kind of bullshit to the insane, lobotomies, tranquilisers, insulin therapy, electroconvulsive therapy, it's a business to make money
psychiatry has also infamously been used as a political tool to destroy political enemies
this shit isn't intended to stop suffering

>>309913
Yeah you're right. I get it, it's scary. Hell, I'd even say it's terrifying. But hey, look, if we do end up making an argument such as that one, wouldn't it also mean that regular doctors that treat diseases of your body aren't to be trusted either? Like, if you claim that modern psychiatry or psychotherapy is detrimental because just 80 years ago they would lobotomize people which is practically torture, doesn't that also mean you shouldn't trust regular doctors because there was a time when doctors would use bloodletting or mercury or radium to treat diseases? And again, don't take this the wrong way, I do realize what you're saying is practically true, but I need to know who out there can help you if you're depressed or have serious emotional pain in your life if this industry is not to be trusted. Are you then simply supposed to heal by finding like-minded people that get you and enjoy spending time with you or is the answer different

>>309912
how come you weren't able to refuse that treatment? how severe was your "outburst"?

>>309792
>I came to the conclusion that the main flaw of the mental health system is its tendency to suck you in

anyone who doubts this is possible: watch the interview tucker carlsson did with the 'professional patient', author Laura Delano:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PdWKkyooCk

The only benefit is how it makes it easier to get neetbux. Every other aspect is a nightmare

but maybe you can talk to a psychotherapist and he'll give you decent life advice or explain what exactly it is you're experiencing and going through and help you deal with it. especially if he's older than you or generally professional