/dep/ - Depression

What kind of philosophy are you teaching him? What books?

>>237101
Not teaching so much any one philosophy but the skills to question things and deduce what appears to be true and I stress appears. Also general social commentary pointing out agenda in media plus going into depth about the human condition itself.
I am pessimistic antinatalist yet do not push him into that line of thought it is less me telling him what to think and asking him to think for himself.

He has had some existential crisis and was feeling suicidal or something so I am blamed because I have influenced him to think beyond the usual zoomer social media stuff.

Mother is extremely anti intellectual and has no logic it is amazing but to chastise me for teaching him to think while she complains he does not go to school is amazing but of course school does not teach you to think only what to think.

Ignorance is bliss, so you could argue that, yes, it is harmful. On the other hand, mentorship is invaluable. I was lucky enough to have someone like this in my life as a younger person. They definitely helped lessen the pain and confusion I felt about the world and my place in it. It didn't "save me", unlock normie life or anything like that, but it did give me the tools to cope better with the life I have. I still feel myself a broken person, but I am suffering less than I could be.

>Do normalfags truly hate thinking?
Yes, the vast majority don't like to think too deeply about things. Knowledge can be quite harmful to them. Because of this, you shouldn't force red/black pills down their throats. The results could be disastrous.

>>237103
As a loser can we mentor in anything useful beyond how to see the world which creates dissatisfaction though?
I worry I'm a bad influence despite ecouraging him a lot for example he used to want to own sports cars and be like those youtube normalfag larpers but now sees we each have our own path and money itself wont make you happy.
I tell him not to consoom 3D porn as it is vile.

As a broken person I truly do feel I can pass on how to cope with life by accepting yourself and letting go of as many attachments as you can but the thing is this.
Mom says she does not want him talking or thinking about "deep" things like a weird person and is convinced anyone who is not a shallow normalfag has extensive mental health issues she says she would rather him talk to his friends about video games and chasing succubi.

She is convinced that by learning and thinking to the point you deconstruct things you will become severely mentally ill like myself and I said to mom.
>if you dislike him thinking the way he does use reason to show why your way of thinking is correct by breaking it down and he will simply adopt your views as he is a thinking person now
but her reply is
>no I should not have to I have told him why he should not think this way and you need to stop talking to him about anything beyond the weather and netflix
To paint a picture of my mom she actually tells me to only talk to her about the weather and not anything else she actually does not care about the truth and has such an ego she only cares about her own ideas being safe despite being wrong.

>>237104
I no longer feed redpils/blackpills that is something as a teen I would do I feel all of us felt that way when younger and it is true it can be depressing to people when you shatter their fragile optimism and reveal the bare basic trths about the world as they appear.

>>237098
There's something to be said for knowledge getting in the way of knowledge, as knowledge in-itself is more akin to a clarity of perception than the accumulation of facts or arguments. Buddha makes the distinction between ordinary knowledge and absolute knowledge, with the absolute having the quality of emptiness.

Well I'll tell you the one truth, you should kys, are you gonna act on that or just ignore it?

>>237112
I concur absolutely and it brings up another thing of interest that relates to what you said the very definition of what intelligence is or at least what it ought to be.

Too many people think that being intelligent is knowing a lot of things and this is plainly false for if it were true a smart phone would be more intelligent than anyone.

Do you have any reading material I ought to delve into to try attain some true wisdom? I realize even saying that is erroneous

The only knowledge that matters in life is street knowledge. This is an extroverts world

>>237119
That is simply social skills but truly all we need to know as humans is where to sleep what to eat and who to fuck.
Please note I am talking about humans as a whole not wizards.

Saint Augustine's mother was butthurt at his decision to focus on theology instead of getting a comfy job at the roman government. Mother's don't like philosophy for their kids because it stunts their economic potential and they subconsciously want a rich kid for many grandkids.

>>237125
Nice analysis I can confirm this is indeed one of the reasons they seem opposed to wibro learning to think for example the way mom reacts when the topic of the hedonic treadmill is brought up is very telling and I have also noticed mom will tell wizbro that if he does not get a good job he wont get a good succubus but I dare not bring up the very obvious truth that if a succubus is only after someone because they have money they were never good to begin with.

Someone wizmom is convinced anyone who is not a jeresy shore normalfag has serious mental health issues including anyone with brains.

Never in my life had I seen such anti intellectualism being promoted in a positive light.

>>237106
In a prior post, you made it sound like he's already exhibiting existential dissatisfaction. It seems like the genie's already out of the bottle, he's starting to wade out into "deeper" waters, to use multiple analogies here. I was never "sat down" and explained everything, but when I asked, I got an answer. As though my mentor wanted me to come to conclusions on my own and put forth my own questions, if that makes sense.

I have no idea what kind of person he is, so he could already be on the path to lead a "normal" life. My opinion is that there's no reason to disrupt that, but I also think equipping someone with truths and critical thinking doesn't necessarily disrupt anything to begin with. I would also say confusing someone with too much at once might induce neurosis, depending on how young this person is.

>>237098
>Is it better to be a normalfag? a non thinking drone content with the simple pleasures
If it is better truly depends on the invidividual person. To be one is essentially the same as not being truly alive; dying. So if you’re still not in favor of ending your life the answer is no. Only for the truly suicidal wizards would existing in the state of a normal person be an acceptable alternative as it would effectively be the same as the suicide they’ve been considering.
It comes down to antinatalism. By pulling one out of blissful ignorance and none-thinking you’re birthing a more advanced sentience. If you’re antinatalist this is thusly immoral.
And yes, they do hate thinking. Casual alcoholism and drowning themselves in meaningless sex and materialism is one way they go about it. Anything not to confront the sadder facts of life like the true meaning of death. I find it hard to put into words and I might come across as a know-it-all jackass because I’m quite bad at putting down my thoughts and this could be interpreted as a “no one is sentient but me”-kind of post which I want to clearify it is not.

>>237127
In my own case I was led to being sceptical of everything around me and had to try carve out my own understanding I do remmeber when I was around 17-18 I had to quit reading and thinking about things as it was actually driving myself mad.

I feel that we all have existential crisis if we are the type to think.
This person was quite normal aside from lacking motivation but now does not seem normal and that is neither good nor bad just a different path.

>>237129
Good comparison to antinatalism.
What prompted yourself to become a thinking part was it from always being weird already and naturally questioning all forms of authority?

i agree that ignorance and false truths is not a comfortable life. but for many it is. just do the best for your younger brother man, if the guy is not cool about having his belief set crumble thats understandable uknow- but if hes into it then carry on. its his ting at the end of the day

>>237102
Maybe you should also tell him that questioning the world will lead to nothing because eventually we know nothing and it only makes sense when he enjoys this endeavor.

>>237136
I have stressed that essentially it is useless because we cannot ever see the world as it really is in absolute terms.

Philosophy really is just a distraction for people who enjoy it and has little value beyond that.

>>237137
Yes, normalfags hate useless things that on top are not materially hedonistic by nature.

>>237098
Think about this from her perspective, wiz.
If this is what knowledge did to you, then her worries are pretty reasonable.

>>237181
If I was to use her flawed logic it is reasonable but the cause of my man mental illnesses are not from thinking more than a normalfag.
I do understand why she think the way she does but she is a succubus and they are overgrown children never learning how to be rational.

>>237131
>What prompted yourself to become a thinking part was it from always being weird already and naturally questioning all forms of authority?
I have always been someone who has questioned everything. At a young age I frequently got into trouble asking why repeatedly completely unironically. The preschool teachers thought I were making fun of them but I were simply trying to understand the underlying motivations and reasons for seemingly simple things like why people want to do something. Being totally and utterly exluded during those formative years and left completely to my own thoughts I think has made me think more about things both inside and outside of myself, though I am not smarter or superior by any means.
My entire life has been similar to what some people call a mild out of body experience. Just having brief-long lasting moments of clarity absolutely examining every last part around me and not taking it for granted. Like just now the absolutely faschinating machanical things going on inside the computer I'm writing this on or the advanced chain of events and logistics that went into making the cheap glass cup I'm drinking out of. The advanced system that is my body, the alveoli taking in the oxygen and neurons firing off in my brain as I think and perceive my surrounding trough the spongy blobs that are my eyes.
It is strange to think a lot of people are not curious, or have lost that trait completely upon reaching adulthood. People own cars, computers and phones completely without questioning the things that go on inside of them. What makes the engine function, how does a computer and phone they type on all day work e.t.c.
To those people, the vast majority it seems, it just might as well be magic and it wouldnt make the slightest difference to them. I remember reading about atoms, cells multiplying, ionic bonds e.t.c. in school and all those ridiculusly complex things are going on all around and inside of me as I write this post. This last part is hard to put into words, but do you feel a bit similarly?

>>237184
huge fuckin cope. everyones happier "bluepilled" for a reason

>>237211
>I were simply trying to understand the underlying motivations and reasons
I identify with this for example if asked a question or something of the sort I do not answer unless I can understand the underlying reasons the motivation of the person or system demanding I act and what they have to gain. I notice that normalfags may have an inkling perhaps subconsciously of the hidden agenda of others but do not actively start thinking down the chain.

>This last part is hard to put into words, but do you feel a bit similarly?
I do understand what you mean I used to immerse myself in subjects that attempted to explain the world around me in physical terms when younger and it did actually lead me to losing my mind for a while resulting in years of forcing myself not to try think too deeply about things because the enormous stress it caused myself.

My thoughts now are less aimed towards the physical and more metaphysical whatever is unobservable.
Thinking back now as a wizkid I was plunged into seeing the world differently through family having controversial and strange views abut the world but also I rebelled and lashed out intellectually at all authority.

A good portion of my time was spent alone this could be why we both have a rich internal world it is odd to consider that a lot of people lack an internal inquisitive world.

>>237223
>it is odd to consider that a lot of people lack an internal inquisitive world
Absolutely, along with curiosity self awareness too is a huge part of consciousness . I've been thinking about consciousness for years; what makes someone conscious, what is consciousness, e.t.c.
A lot of great philosophers have made good works on this but in my own opinion it boils down to a mix of things like self awareness, curiosity, how one thinks (inner monologue and stuff like that) and the ability to think past your physical body and try to look at things objectivly.
I can realize that what I might see as an objective truth right now could be entirely wrong, maybe all the opinions I spout here come from a worldview that's been tainted by a lifetime of subjective experiences. Being able to consider all these possibilities seriously I think is a relativly big part of consciousness.
Years ago I were somewhat into politics, something which I now have realized is a waste of time for most people but thats another discussion, and the sheer ignorance from all sides stunned me. I were by no means a centrist but people just were not able to communicate their ideas objectivly. Everyone starts insulting each other, bringing up arguments completely based on emotion, trying to pander to the emotions of the crowd. What I came to realize is the same conclusion that Socrates made. That most people are not interested in the truth at all, they will simply persue and listen to what makes them happy. (See the sweets shop owner analogy of elections) What one must realize is that this does not only apply to elections and politics but society as a whole. Just recently a female I went to high school with commited suicide after the renewed lockdown rules. She had insulted me back then after I were discussing potential hazards to society like bioweapons with a group of aquaintances. I can vividly remember her calling me paranoid and that I should stop worrying about such things as they could surely never happen. I have no illusion that she remembered me, she probably forgot me as soon as we graduated but I would like to think that I at least crossed her mind. My point is that as long as they are not forced to do something or consider something difficult or sad they will like most people simply live their lives on simple autopilot and see nothing wrong with it. Sure, they might be quietly dissatisfied deep down which you're seeing the cracks of with depression becoming normalized amongst them with their lives but they will drown it with an extra glass of wine and netflix and not think more of it. They will live their entire lives slaves to what their impulses tell them to do, with mindless sex, buying things they dont need and casual alcoholism and never truly ponder why it is they do it.

>>237251
You mentioned that people involved in politics do not appeal to reason and we can fault them for not seeking truth and pandering to the folly of the majority but when it comes to a democratic system it is the best way to argue since the majority is stupid I also used to be invested somewhat into politics and came to see it was just a way to distract myself but useless however observing the going ons relating to politics in all its forms doe illuminate one to what it means to be a human and what appeals to the collective.

Have you noticed that normalfags can compartmentalize when to use their intellect and when not to for their own benefit? I have a family member that can show exemplary use of reason but it is entirely confined to their work allowing them to excel yet they somehow cannot use their reasoning skills and apply them to anything else in life.
A lot of normies are just ignorant but there also exists a lot of wilful ignorance which eventhey are unaware of and they do their best to shy away from seeing what is right in front of them to their own benefit.
It seems like it has some evolutionary purpose yet I do hate to reduce everything down into darwinistic terms.

I get an impression perhaps wrong though that in times past the public had high level critical discourse from the greeks gathering to share ideas to later periods in coffee houses but then again it is evident the majority of people were the same then as they are now just consider for a moment how having access to the vast amounts of information in the cyber age has not actually resulted in the average person being more informed.

Any system that involves humans is flawed and prone to error by nature.

>>237252
Absolutely I agree that wilful ignorance has it's benefits. After all, I would not say I am happier or more successful than them, instead I am a lonely man who's been alienated from the society I spent so much time thinking about. In the end all the thinking ammounted to was an elevated appreciation of emotions and sensations and when you're all alone that's not such a good thing.
>Any system that involves humans is flawed and prone to error by nature.
That is why I beleive that if we as a species surive for a few more centuries things like emotions and all the things I brought up that make us sentient will have been carved away slowly but surely until we exist merely to work and die and we will be happy. The seeds for this are already being planted. I don't want to get too political right now but if you look at things like the great reset it looks like the start of it. To quote the World Economic Forum;
>You will own nothing and you will be happy

>>237254
This is it we cannot think ourselves better because what does it even matter if we are right when miserable I do not wish I was a normalfag in the sense of doing what they do but how can one not envy being happy or able to enjoy things I cannot even enjoy nearly any western media like movies because the agenda hidden within it jumps out at me and no I am not a polfag it is jut a little obvious when nearly every show has a faggot couple or several portrayed in some stereotypical way to promote a narrative for one example.

We cannot even enjoy the news because we are hyper aware of all the bias and try to think too much about everything.
>things like emotions and all the things I brought up that make us sentient will have been carved away slowly
aka psychiatry treating us for being rats in a cage and not enjoying iit.

How old is your bother? If he's young let him be happy and dumb. One day he will grow up as well and he will be forced to face this shit world. For now let him be

If I could somehow make myself really dumb and happy I would, but nothing, not even retardation will get rid of my chronic loneliness

>>237269
mid to late teens.
Somehow broke down and ended up in a mental hospital but I suspect mom took him after he said he thinks about dying I do not talk to my brother since I made this thread.

>>237269
Well, my sister is dumb and happy. And i have had depressions since age of 13. The worst thing is that i was born because "normal families have kids". Hate my parents though.

>>237271
Being dumb can help you be happy but can also result in being so dumb you worry about dumb shit so there must be some perfect level of being a retard.

I read that very low IQ people do not even kill themselves because t is far too abstract for them to figure out suicide may help and also very high IQ people may kill themselves less I like to think this is due to uncertainty of what lies after death preventing them.

A lot of really intellectual people that are happy have no reason to show off their intellect so nobody really comments on it. My electrical tutor was most definitely in the top 1% of intelligence considering his wide knowledge, good humor and perceptive insight into many subjects, but if you were just talking to him on a surface level he'd just talk about something like the new Tool album.

>>237278
I do not understand why people try to show off they are smart you talk about common interests with people conversations are not about tooting your own horn.
People who try to look smart are most definitely not and people who say they are smart are one of the two following things.

They are either actually really stupid or they are someone with an awful personality who is smart either way I always avoid those people.

>>237279
Growing up there was a succubus in my class that was always desperate to prove how intelligent she was, and put all her effort into learning at school and getting good grades, and used to always just read 19th century romance novels. She was indeed a cerebral narcissist, but it was driven by living in a white trash family around dumb, slobby trashy people that did drugs, and she wanted more for her life. I can understand and sympathize with that sort of "Iamverysmart" done out of desperation.

(I do wonder if I'm pushing it with this post, mentioning a real succubi, sorry mods)

>>237281
A child that grows up hearing how smart they are has the potential of coveting their perceived status leading to inhibiting their further development as they avoid looking "dumb" resulting in them actually fall behind or not grow to their potential.
To the average person being smart means being knowledgeable they are certain that reading other peoples thoughts in books and storing the text to quote when in the company of others means they are intelligent when true intelligence comes down to how you see the world around you.

I am not saying that reading is useless but unless you can understand something or use what you read to alter your own perspective it is really quite useless and that is fine there is nothing wrong with reading for pleasure.
You can read anything and gain from it if you think about it in the right way and this is true for shitposts within reason also.

>(I do wonder if I'm pushing it with this post, mentioning a real succubi, sorry mods

You are fine just be careful of mentioning offline activities I hope you stick around newwiz because this imageboard is quite nice maybe make a thread about a topic and share some insight into what you have observed in life or ask a question that will inspire discussion.

>>237284
I was reading Schopenhauer the other day and he said straight up that reading too much hurts you, and that the academics that do nothing but read and store information without taking the time to make inferences is like the person that carries the ladder instead of using it to climb. I really understand Socrates' hatred of the written word as all cerebral narcissist seems to center on how many books you can pile through, and schools tend to encourage this type of thinking too to make people think that forcereading 30 books through the school holidays will turn you into Mr Einstein.

Reading up on the daily activities of the great men, they really aren't pushing themselves in a way that's special. Schopenhauer himself did three hours of reading a day, Darwin did likewise about 3 hours of work. There are exceptions like Karl Marx who were total workhorses, but he was scatterbrained and writing about whatever shit he felt like all over the place and having petty arguments with the other Hegelians.

Chess is another thing these types ruin because of the GENOIS stigma attached to it. Chess at the top level just tests your working memory, they have done IQ tests on grandmaster chess players and a lot just have average IQs. Rote memorization takes the temperance for it, nothing special.

But yeah, Stirner said it best, you're going to be basically what you're going to be, you are what you are. A poet that's poor will make ballards and shanties on the job, and spend his time making clever rhymes with the other labourers. A guy with a natural talent for music will be playing his guitar at parties and people will enjoy it, you can't force these things, they're innate. And we as humans shouldn't have to spend our time "becoming" anything, we are what we are.

>>237287
Sorry, final thought. I also don't like how kids books themselves stroke the ego of the readers. The antagonists in kids series are almost always the quiet reader that's smarter than the dumb bully who can't read. IDK, kids books and dumb romances never used to do that back in the past.

>>237287
Schopenhauer is on the ball when it comes to education as well.
Schools do not teach children how to think at all it is very clear to anyone looking at the world and the average person regardless of their level of education that most just do not actually think for themselves.

Intelligence is very hard to quantify and it more than just pattern recognition and realistically you do not need to be intelligent that survive in the modern world as long as you know how to shop for yourself and work in a factory it is "good enough".
Bobby Fischer himself mentioned how Chess as the higher levels is just all memorization of strategies.

Schools are now just indoctrination camps priming people to follow authority and be good wage slaves.

Regarding what you said about books it is just what people want look at anime and how the MC is always what the average weeb wishes they were.

>>237098
Your mom is honestly a smart succubus and I don’t say that a lot. She was probably a Stacy and can sense that you’re an isolated, asocial loser low on the social totem pole, and she doesn’t want that for her other son. Learning about philosophy and the world inevitably makes you depressed and just conceited, arrogant, and quick to dismissive 90% of people.

If you’re dumb and thoughtless, it’s easier to integrate and pressure you into being part of the social hive, which I inevitably think is the better alternative. This makes socializing easier, which I think is critical to ones positive well-being and sense of worth. I’ve been a chronically isolated loser for almost 5 years now, and it’s completely hollowed me out, made me depressed, made me unenthusiastic about life. During that time, I read extensive philosophy like Schopenhauer, Evola, Huxley, all kinds of Greek stuff, and I’m no better for that knowledge. It just makes me depressed about the state of the world, depressed and resentful of how stupid people are, and makes me hate that functional society is composed of these thoughtless people who are entertained by social media apps and other surface level garbage.

If I had retained friendships and been distracted by the pursuit of social recognition, I would probably be much happier and have less mental space for pessimism and negative contemplation.

>>237291
I do not disagree with mom when it comes to being too aware of the worlds making you depressed but to be so anti intellectual and blame me for my brother expressing suicidal thoughts is folly. I have been isolated for nearly a decade from interaction including family but personally never found isolation bad after all I am meant to be "schizoid".
Isolation is bad regardless though I am convinced that even if you do not enjoy interacting with people in the world you still develop some problems from prolonged isolation but just as you develop problems you develop yourself in a unique way seeing the world as an outsider that is well aquainted with the customs.

>
If I had retained friendships and been distracted by the pursuit of social recognition, I would probably be much happier and have less mental space for pessimism and negative contemplation.
You do not know this for sure you may even come to make friends in the future and realize that you prefer being by yourself.

I hope saying this does not go against the rules but if you want some friends go out and try to make them I wish I had something I thought could make me enjoy life.

>>237098
the way i see it, youre just going to drop your worldview onto your brother and give him no critical thinking skills. currently, he cant defend himself intellectually at all so you could just lay into him and leave him in a bad place for a long time. i also doubt that you really think differently than most people, all youve done is break a spell of ignorance to reach the conclusions of beliefs everyone holds. i didnt catch any of your actual beliefs but for an example lets take evolution. mostly everyone believes in evolution, but you may recognize the conclusion of that belief being eugenics and racism, whereas the normalfags would cover their ears.

>>237277
the midwits curse. too smart to be blissfully dumb yet too dumb enjoy the fruits of intelligence.

sometimes it's just better to be on the extremes sadly.

>>237342
Sadly I, the one who's been writing above, am not very smart. I am definitivly less intelligent than your average normal person (I did rather poorly in school and had a really hard time with math in particular) yet I think and feel this way. And no, this is not low self esteem or me somehow trying to scapegoat my failiures in life on being born less intelligent; I am very confident in both my abilities and limitations. I am defintivly not disabled however and I function just fine in society, the only reason I got good grades is because I am quite good at bluffing and getting on good terms with people above me. Would call in sick almost all the tests, engage a lot during lectures and ask questions and such I did not care the answer for and it worked out fine. Sympathy from the teachers might also have played a part.
I am good at very few things, but the things I am good at I am autistically passionate about. Sadly none of them are productive or impressive and the few times I open up about them I've gotten ridiculed. Things like papercraft and miniature machinery are not exactly getting anyone riled up

I know this thread is dead since a long time ago, but thank you to the anons here. This was one of the greatest reads ever.

>>238553
yeah, great thread for real

OP here talked to my brother once since making this thread.
Mom doubled down on being anti intellectual declaring everything I think or read as "woo hoo" and dangerous.
I do not bother to try encourage my brother to read and think maybe I tried to encourage him to think in the first place so I could have some stimulating conversations off the internet as I only talk to my mother when needed and mentioning anything at all that goes against the norm AKA the latest trends of thought broadcast to her through the TV or social media is met with hostility.

>>237098
Correlation does not imply causation. For the people question everything, a lot of them probably do it BECAUSE their lives suck. For high IQ people who live miserable lives and distrust others, eventually at some point they will ask themselves "Why does my life suck so much?". When people question the status quo or are drawn to things like conspiracy theories, it's often because they feel like there's something profoundly wrong with their lives and want to confront it. Happy people have no incentive to question anything, because from their perspective, their lives are good as is. Personally, I have hated almost every moment of my entire life, even as a young child.

>>237098
Knowledge is actively harmful, but like a druggie you will still seek it out anyways. Your mother is right and clearly cares for her child. I once spoke to my normalfag brother about philosophy and he only replied "yea, but are any of these people happy at all?". He is of course correct, philosophy leads only to pain.

All conversation is manipulation, all motivations selfish, all interactions meaningless, free will doesn't exist, the mind exists only to torture itself, "hard work" is just genetics, being born with genetics is the same as being born with money, ultimately you know nothing and merely assume things are real or truthful. I could go on, but you can understand already I hope.


There are three kinds of people
1) Idiots too stupid to recognize anything
2) Delusional copers that create spectacular mental gymnastics in order to survive
3) Those who see reality for what it is, will experience suffering, pain, and possibly suicide eventually.

>>237098
Personally I found knowledge to be harmful.

You cannot change the nature of humans, nor can you wrestle down the powers that are.

The small benefit is that you avoid common traps and misplaced trust- but at what cost? Knowledge is despair.

>>237112
I love this post so much. Here's some thoughts I've gathered after thinking about it a lot. I'm not smart, I don't have a very "clear perception of reality" and I want you to know that right away.
This could all be obvious to you, I feel like an absolute idiot in this thread and I'm sure I am. Here goes:

If intelligence is more akin to a clarity of perception rather than the gathering of arguments and facts, does that not inherently mean that you cannot become smarter. It is not possible. Anything you learn is simply you adding stuff to your "backpack", that is, adding arguments and facts to your pool of resources whilst clarity of perception is something that you're born with.
And that could be for any reason, genetics, diet, upbringing who the fuck knows? I don't, that's for sure. Would that mean a person who studies very hard and diligently is still below a person who has a clearer perception of reality?
Then what does it matter? Say one person has to study very hard to understand a math problem, whilst the other understands it with ease because *it just makes sense*. From their perspective, with a higher clarity of perception it is simply obvious what the answer is. That's my original thoughts I wanted to get out there, but as I wrote this I thought of more to add.

If "learning" is simply adding to your pool of resources, and not increasing your ability to think, or see things differently, as someone who has a clearer perception of reality does. How can knowledge be harmful? You could read all the philosophy you want, you'd still not see it in the same eyes as someone who's truly intelligent, if we go off of this "clarity of perception" thing as a basis of intelligence. In that case it would simply mean you know more facts, or more quotes about philosophical things, rather than actually living those words of wisdom or actually applying them to your life.
I don't know where I'm going with this anymore, I hope someone sees some value in this post. I'm not smart. Sorry.

>>238765
Not that guy but you are confusing potential with actuality or something realized. Think in terms of sport, obviously there are those whom are genetically gifted and will be able to understand the sports game much more clearly and with less effort as you say. Yet as you hear from others time and time again, "talent" or rather genetic superiority still needs at least some time in practice to reach what "hard work" can reach. In the same way your "clarity of perceptions" is "talent" or "genetic superioity", and you use "knowledge" as "pool of resources" or rather just simply "effort/hard work". Perhaps it makes the most sense to think of what you call "intelligence", is to simply be the speed of which a loading bar takes to load an image.

You can continue to argue about what exactly "knowledge", "intelligence", etc are, which is a one way street to Socrates and Plato. Instead I would suggest you read Wittgenstein and/or Nietzsche and realize that the search for ultimate "absolute truth" is the greatest meme of all time.

>>237098
>What is to be gained from being able to deconstruct reality and point out the "facts" as they appear to be
Supreme bliss is acquired by dividing the real from the unreal and then pursuing the real. 99.9% of the population pursue temporary conditions, and they gain the resulting happiness and suffering from pursuing the ephemeral. However ultimately to taste one is to taste both, as they're two sides of the same coin. Tall and short complete one another, as do right and left

To gain the ultimate peace beyond both happiness and suffering one has to let go of both of them

man what is with all the essays man dont waste my time is it really hard to put your word in a single sentence? jesus christ normiecentral

>>238836
Haul your ass to 9gag or a meme site comment section if you only want oneliners and "le funny jokes" instead of actual discussion.

>>238917
He's calling for terse and direct speech. Is that really so hard for you, to not bloviate for once so that your ideas can be accessible to actually depressed wizards?

I read the whole thread actually, which is quite rare for me.

I'm disappointed by you people who say the mother is right. If you are pained because you aren't a normal then fuck off. Go and follow some social media faggot that tells you how to live your life and what things to like in order to be cool. Some people can sink so low. What worth is there to that kind of happiness? I'd rather be a depressive NEET than a happy norm.
But point is, I hate how this thread is built around two extremes: you are either enlightened and a bitter, melancholic wiz or a happy ignorant normalfag. Knowledge doesn't bring with itself suffering. Knowledge is just knowledge. What you do with it is up to you. This whole implying that to be intellectual means you have to be depressed and bitter is just wrong. Many intellectuals lived rather comfy, peaceful or even happy lives. This "suffering intellectual" meme became way too prevalent post-Nietzsche and Schopenhauer, if you ask me. In most cases it is nothing more than a pretentious act, not different from the byronic act that was the trend in its time. I'm not saying the opposite, that wise people are always happy and content or should strive to be because that would be a lie just like the suffering intellectual. But there is more to knowledge than just suffering. You can view things from a slightly different angle and tragedy will appear as comedy to you. Most "troubled" intellectuals have the problem of having too much empathy or they harbor serious anxieties concerning the future. They aren't exactly trobuled because of knowledge itself.
About intellectualism: I'm pretty positive 90% of philosophy is just useless wordplays and the equivalent of what they had before imageboards were a thing, people rambling about nothing. The 10% we are left with contains actual knowledge and wisdom concerning life and us personally. I encourage everyone to learn to read philosophy selectively. Skipping the parts that are worthless and focusing on those that have actual value. Even better yet, we are better off reading classics like Homer and poems and other pieces of art like tragedies and comedies instead of philosophy. Philosophy rarely answers any questions, it usually generates more of them. Art on the other hand is pure and finite, it has a tale or feeling it wants to communicate to us that is concrete and actual and which has actual ties to life. We can derive pure, unpolluted wisdom from art. Whether it is anime or a trash movie or a Bergman movie or some theatre play or music it carries within it some kind of message. And I also don't like how people ITT made a clear distinction between intellectual and unintellectual things. Because most of the time things aren't so clear. I watched the anime Psycho-Pass recently, it played with some serious and deep themes yet it was entertaining too in a simple way. So is it common stuff or intellectual stuff? Probably could qualify as both. The border shouldn't be so clear, the best is a combination of common entertainment and intellectualism. Actually, in persons too I like this the best: the dilettante is the Übermensch of tomorrow in my opinion. Someone who is free from the snobism and exclusivism and pretentiousness of the intellectual elite yet he has various interests in many fields and knows lot of things your average person doesn't.

In short: don't create more non-thinking retards, wizards. We have enough of them. Spread the seeds of knowledge, do god's work. Educate the masses and make them love studying.

>>239038
Wish there was more of this.

>>239038
>This "suffering intellectual" meme became way too prevalent post-Nietzsche and Schopenhauer
There is a reason for that, think about Nietzsche's most notable statement "god is dead".
>homer
Stuck in religious worldviews, or if you hate the word "religious" then spiritual worldview.

As for notes on art being a learning tool, it is at the end of the day a poor mans philosophy. All of the "deep" anime like psychopass steal every idea, meaning, and theme they have from western books. If philosophy is "just useless wordplay", which funnily enough is a concept made famous by a philosopher Wittgenstein, then what does it make art that bases itself on those very same ideas? Even worse is when you call art "pure", yet what is fiction and image making if not a literal lie? Perhaps you mean "pure" to mean pure dishonesty, then yes that does seem correct. The reality is that you are just another anime poster spewing nonsense because you watch anime instead of thinking about if your ideas are even coherent.

>>237098
We live in a prison world which the inmates of are voluntary to stay locked up. Achievements that do not add any value to one's life are imposed as utmost goals from top down (from ruling elite to thinktanks to politicians to academia and business to schools and media to society to the individual) to occupy people with tiny boosts of dopamine so they get addicted to their rat race labyrinth cage. Ignorance is not bliss, you just don't know the cause of pain. I think knowing truth, sovereignty of your actions/decisions and authentic compassion are the only objectives worth striving towards. But the prison mind control which your mother is a victim of deceives people to the opposite.

>>239038
A few thoughts came to mind when reading your post.
1.You mentioned the intellectual climate of Schopenhauer and those who came after him and do not entertain the idea that perhaps it is the loss of spirituality which may have resulted in the dread that knowledge can bring. I do not think Schopenhauers metaphysics count the same just to be clear as a theistic view on the unknown as they are not comparable in the sense that one may grant some salvation to the psyches realization that life is indeed prolonged suffering.
I am not a theist myself but it does seem clear to me that embracing the irrationality of religion like Christianity for example (not an existence of a god being/force) is almost needed for a thinking being that strives to understand to be stable psychologically.
For example consider the case of Mitchell Heisman who wrote the suicide note book. The knowledge he settled on a appearing to be true forming his perception of the world led him to see no point in living with his depression now consider if he was instead a follower of Judaism it is possible he would remain miserable but the "fact" god existed and all the suffering made sense according to his religion could may well have alleviated some of the burden.

2.I will agree with you that philosophy is largely entertainment a way to distract yourself from the world and it is doubtful that anything meaningful will come from metaphysics as has been the case for so ever long but art serves the same purpose both in admiration sweeping you away from the moment or the act of creation.
The piety of art you speak of is nothing more than the ability to enjoy and distract yourself from your existence with minimal cost psychologically and the philosophy within the art is just more palatable, easier to digest.
Speculation of a philosophical question and an attempt to answer it within the medium of art does not give said exploration any special qualities beyond being easier to digest. Consider your own post made into a manga it does not validate what your argument was anymore than plain text at all.

I do agree though that knowledge itself does not exactly equal existential dread and depression but it depends on what perspective someone holds not the knowledge itself.
>>238836
>man what is with all the essays man dont waste my time is it really hard to put your word in a single sentence? jesus christ normiecentral
I get that it is hard to express your thoughts clearly I struggle myself and the fog brain does not help but this is part of the appeal of this imagebaord people will put in time to express themselves because they know their post won't be 404 because 100 crabs posted TFW no GF pushing it off the board.

Welcoem to Wizardchan enjoy your stay andi f you do not have anything to add it may be best not to say anything.

>>239042
Not him, anyhow
>Stuck in religious worldviews, or if you hate the word "religious" then spiritual worldview.
Philosophy and spirituality are inherently bonded and are often one and the same. If you think ancient philoshopers were not spiritual is because you haven't read them. Even modern philosophers like Hegel, Nietzche or Schopenhahuer are heavy on that aspect.
>the end of the day a poor mans philosophy
Again, both ancient and modern philosophers recognize art universally like one of the most important things for the soul. In our age this is speacilly truth, and in the years to come art will be even more prominent.

In other words, anime and games are based.

>>239116
>philosophy and spirituality are inherently bonded
They absolutely aren't, even dating back to greek times you had people like Democritus and Epicurus. Hegel I haven't read because he is a pseudo-intellectual who can't write a coherent paragraph, but Nietzsche and Schopenhauer use "spirituality" merely as ways to convey what they mean. Especially Nietzsche it should be obvious to anyone with 50iq or above, his closest "spiritual" idea is the eternal recurrence which is just a thought experiment to explain amor fati.
>Again, both ancient and modern philosophers recognize art universally like one of the most important things for the soul.
>universally
Delusional at this point.

Stop watching anime or playing video games, and instead actually think before hitting post.

>>239123
Ah, I get it now. You don't know neither ancient philosophers nor Nietzche, Hegel or Schopenhahuer. You're only pretending while having only read some quotes by some atheist "memes". Good to know.

>>239042
>There is a reason for that, think about Nietzsche's most notable statement "god is dead".
No, that is no reason to play the role of the struggling, suffering intellectual/artist. Atheism doesn't make you depressed, just like knowledge doesn't make you depressed either. There were many thinkers through history who were atheists yet they maintened their vitality and didn't fall into the error of playing pretentious roles. I would argue for the opposite even, the belief that an invisible, superior being watches your every move here on Earth and will judge you according to how he pleases after you die would just bring down the vitality of most persons. Belief in god is actually quite hurtful to the mental well-being of people. At least for me, I can say with confidence that since I lost my faith I became happier and been enjoying life much more. Epicurus is truly right in this matter, fairy tales and delusions just serve to worry people unnecessarily.
>Stuck in religious worldviews, or if you hate the word "religious" then spiritual worldview.
That could be debated but this is besides the point. His works still laid the ground for most epics of the West, you can't argue against that. But I brought him up only as example. There are many great artists out there who left us with many wonderful and thought-provoking pieces.

>it is at the end of the day a poor mans philosophy
You got that really backwards, wiz apprentice. Philosophy is a great-grandson of art. The cavemen didn't engage in discussion with each other about the bigger truths of the world except for "storm god angry, we got no food". Of course you could consider it philosophy still but then everything we say is philosophy which would bring us to our "only wordplay" thought. On the other hand, cavemen were busy painting stories on the walls about their lives and how they perceived the world as. Art is way more ancient and belong much more to us than philosophy, which only originated from commentaries to said pieces of art. If you actually read philosophy then you know that philosophers constantly refer to art to explain their ideas or even because they got their ideas from said art. Just some example among the many: Plato/Socrates quotes Homer numerous times and turns to what he wrote for guidance or the idea of the Overman Nietzsche came up with is nothing really new, Shakespeare already wrote about them in his plays, grand individuals who follow their passions and don't care about morality.
As for shitting on anime or art for "stealing ideas": it is actually the opposite like I said, it is mostly philosophers who refer to art. And do you think philosophers themselves didn't steal ideas from each other? You should know if you read philosophy that philosophy is essentially about some guys who replied to each other's works over the centuries. Also, I never read Wittgenstein so what? Are you claiming people have monopolies over ideas and thoughts? Just because Wittgenstein made popular a certain thought that doesn't mean there weren't already hundreds or thousands of people who came up with it even before him.
Philosophers are usually either artists on the side or failed artists. It isn't some independent, superior study of wisdom like you are led to believe. From the way you write you sound like a young person who discovered philosophy for the first time so your short-sightedness will be excused.
Art is pure in the sense that it deals with actual stories, meanings, concepts, life situations. Philosophy on the other hand is usually too busy sucking its own dick and fingering its own anus to come to actual, concrete conlcusions about anything.

>>239106
1. Read what I wrote in this same post to the other guy. I don't think spirituality or gods have anything to do with the image of the suffering intellectual. What I suspect the reason is for it is that philosophers and thinkers in general since Schope and Nietzsche slowly began to realize deep down how futile philosophy is in general and how it is basically no different from what the sophists practiced in the age of Socrates. The emphasis on writing more and more confusing sentences and nonsense and disguising it as the truth and trying to sell it to people as knowledge is just the last tremors of the dying body that is philosophy.

2. I don't consider it a bad thing that art is easier to digest. I value plain speaking over endless ramblings. Watching a movie or reading some fiction can give you the same feeling much more powerfully that some philosopher needs 7000 pages to convey in overly-pretentious and condescending style. If my post was made into a manga like you said it would be much more powerful and easier to relate to than the ideas I tried to express. Art is the perfect way of expressing ourselves, it is pure in this way. Most philosophers were very egocentric and vain persons who wanted their work getting praises from some snob elite or simply just artists who lacked the necessary talent to create something new. Nietzsche for example was obviously a failed poet, read Thus Spoke Zarathustra, the work he was most proud of.

>>239040
Thanks for the positive feedback.

>>239128
Based animeposter. Thanks for your wisdom once again.

>>239126
Worthless post, apply yourself next time.

>>239128
>Belief in god is actually quite hurtful to the mental well-being of people.
Completely off mark, there are countless studies showing belief in a religion and god to be correlated with happiness. Here is just one: https://www.pewforum.org/2019/01/31/religions-relationship-to-happiness-civic-engagement-and-health-around-the-world/. The rational argument if you want that instead of empirical is that the destruction of the "objective" or a "truth" is detrimental to mental health and is why humans for thousands of years were religious or spiritual.

>The cavemen didn't engage in discussion with each other about the bigger truths of the world except for "storm god angry, we got no food".
Yes, which turned into religion as an explanation for why things happen, and in turn philosophy as the continued search for "truth". Do yourself a favour and read the pre-Socratic fragments. You don't seem to actually understand what philosophy is, or why philosophers tended to study all things which we think of as science now. Philosophy for much of known history was science or rather more accurately science was philosophy.

>Art is pure in the sense that it deals with actual stories, meanings, concepts, life situations.
What you mean to say is that art is imitation, reimagining, copy making, and lies. What is a story if not "not real" or "imaginary". What is a painting if not a merely an image of something that is real. You have art completely backwards, and if you had even bothered to read the things you pretend you have you would have understood what my point was in the first post I made. Which means you haven't even read the most well known philosophy to exist nor his most famous book.

Stop watching anime and pretending you have read philosophy, go read instead of lying on the internet.

Some knowledge is lethal. Every blackpill pushes me closer to the brink. Merely existing and observing my own behavior is a blackpill. I see why people turn to substances to shut off their awareness.

>>239145
>there are countless studies
Fuck off with these meme-statistics. Is this your first day on the internet? I'm sure if I took the effort and typed in any search engine something along the lines of "study proving connection between atheism and happiness" I would get multiple results. These studies are always done with an agenda behind them, they contain fake info or half-truths.
And no, I can disprove you by my own experience and the experience of many people I observed. Belief in god doesn't make you happy, it just explains why things are the way they are. Most religious people, even the most genuine zealots are usually extremely low-vitality people while non-religious people tend to enjoy life much more. Religion gives you answers yet it places many restrictions on individuals. It requires you to cut your ties or minimalize them to this world and to focus on the afterlife. Religion is essentially nothing more than preparing people for death. Plus social control device.

Also, you don't seem to understand why religion came into being. It wasn't because people desired to know difficult metaphysical answers, it originates from art. People didn't have comics, anime or movies back then, they had religion instead and its tales, myths and folklore. That and the ruling classes needed something to pacify the ordinary people and to justify why their families rule. Hence why many kings and leaders traced back their lineage to gods and supernatural beings. Religions started diving into metaphysics and philosophy at later stages only. Philosophy as we understand it is an extremely new and recent field compared to religion and art.
>science was philosophy
All right so you just shitposting, no problem.

Art contains truth because it is about life, unlike philosophy. Which philosophical problem ever had any connection to actual life? Philosophy may seem like it is about life but it isn't. It is about abstract concepts and problems. The only field within it that relates to us on any level is ethics and morals because it is strongly related to politics. But whether free will exists or not or what exactly knowledge is doesn't bear any effect on our lives. Whether man is made in God's image or evolved from monkey doesn't matter. You will live your life the same way in either case. These things never really mattered nor they matter now or will matter any time in the future.
Do you really not find it strange that philosophy is the only field where there is absolute disagreement on almost everything even amongst the most learned "practicers" of it? Do you not find it odd that philosophy has yet to show what it managed to accomplish during all these centuries? Even what should be considered as philosophy isn't concrete or set in stone, so to speak. What is knowledge or wisdom? Even basic concepts like these aren't clear. What is reality? What is self? Philosophy never managed to disprove with satisfaction what Gorgias stated. Why do you think most Socratic dialogues end with "well, we don't know anything, we should talk about this more hehe"? Because philosophy is fake, meme study. Just like theology or psychology, it is nothing but sophists pretending they know things when they don't.

When you will get older you will feel so sorry for yourself for wasting your time on these things. Instead of reading Kant you would have been better off watching anime.
Art is life, art is truth, art has actual thoughts and feelings you can conclude from it. Philosophy on the contrary, is death, lies and pretentiousness.

>>239217
>Fuck off with these meme-statistics
Not an argument, neither is "its all an conspiracy bro", and certainly "my experience" is not an argument. You clearly have no proper reasoning for your belief, neither empirical nor rational.

>Also, you don't seem to understand why religion came into being.
Actually I do, and I posted it right before and actually so did you when you posted "storm god angry, we got no food". I assume you are back peddling since I agreed with you, and because it rightly answers why religion or "spirituality" began. Your point about "difficult metaphysical questions" is entirely irrelevant since the questions didn't need to be difficult or metaphysical at the start, instead it was just a question such as "why is there no rain" with the answer being a "rain god" deciding when it rained.

>All right so you just shitposting
Not an argument, why even bother with such worthless replies? Ironic that you can only shitpost a worthless reply like this while accusing me of what you did yourself. I should have known that replying to anime posters is a waste of my time.

>Art contains truth because it is about life, unlike philosophy.
Again you are proving to me that you can't think with any real depth, and have twice now not understand what I wrote (showing you haven't even read a single philosophy book or you would would be able to grasp it). Not only that, but this entire section of what you have written completely ignored what I wrote, and instead you proceeded to ramble on about your own views. If you are not addressing what I write, then I cannot even refer to this as human conversation, let along a "debate" or argument. You end up speaking as if to reaffirm your own beliefs with yourself, I must assume you unconsciously must not actually be very confident in these or yourself as a whole.

Do yourself a favor and just read some philosophy, anything at all would work. Youtube videos don't count, and neither does stanford summaries. Stop watching cartoons made for children/teenagers, and just read for once. Thats really all I can say at this point since you can neither form a single argument, and also can't even seem to communicate on a basic human level judging by your last paragraph. This uh "conversation" seems to myself to be a rather fruitless effort, so I think I'll be leaving this "conversation" now.

>>239128
>The cavemen didn't engage in discussion with each other about the bigger truths of the world except for "storm god angry, we got no food"

They had narratives and philosophy does just that except better. Art is not better than philosophy.

>>239227
Thanks for doing God's work, I'm way too jaded to still engage in such discussions.

>>239227
An argument is anything that supports a premise, be it by evidence, conclusion, deductions, or application of logic. The argument of that anon is clear: You came with one of these so called studies that supports your premise, he says that these studies proves nothing because he can look for one that claims exactly the opposite in any moment. A compelling deduction. You could have made a smart reply explaining why that study is different from others or why it's conclusion is above the conclusion of others, but you couldn't, so you came with memephrase. You may has well posted grunts and moans, because the value of your argumentation would be exactly the same.

You think you're too inteligent for Art and that's why you're only into Philosophy, which was already noted by your deeply flawed understanding of what both of them are, but in reality your replies had shown you're not on the level for neither.

>>239252
That was his premise, you conveniently didn't quote his argument supporting it, which was that he could go out and find a similar study in less than 2 minutes on the Internet supporting the opposite. You keep resorting to "oh, I'm so inteligent, not an argument, animeposter are so dumb" and so on while you have not only failed to recognize the same argument, but to address it, twice.

>the rest of my points
I didn't agree with most of what the other poster said after that. As simply as that.
And yes, you're definitly not name-calling people here and having an actitude of "better than you" despite your inabilities. Is all our imagination.

The problem with attaching anime pics to posts is that it devaluates everything said in the post. I think wizchan in general should be text only. At least /dep/ should be. Pics are too disturbing for the worried mind.

>>239259
The motivations for engaging in that practice in threads such as this one should be suspect as well.

>>239259
>The problem with attaching anime pics to posts is that it devaluates everything said in the post.
If you think this you just do not know how to argue and are not rational.
Why does an anime image affect whatever point is being presented by someone?

>>239150
Addictions are how we lobotomize ourselves, delaying the pain. A weird debt. You'll pay it back, either in regret or listlessness when something snaps in the delicate flow of flushing and rehashing and forgetting.
Since you can't avoid knowledge.

Knowledge is the essence of experience, our building blocks. It'll stub your toe when you don't look and then you remember it's the stairs you're walking on, the walkways that lead to cities with the satellites beaming in some more through the cybernetic freight cataclysm we share.

To no longer build from the bricks that fall in front of you - I ought to wonder, what else will you do with the time? Boredom is the awareness of time passing.
Will you sink further into despair? Who knows, I'm waiting for you to act

It seems the choice defers to unconscious forces until you may bother to confront it. Don't know if it's breakable. Either you build with your bricks or become the collector, or try to smash as many as you can while you froth some bourbon.

As for me, I try to keep some brick castles knee high that remind me of the mystery of it all, whether you want it or not.
>>239259
It's awkward to choose an image, too.
>>239270
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_medium_is_the_message
If you've felt the effects of enough mediums, you'll see how it bends the content until it is the form that is the content and not what's originally conveyed. I.E. how many messages you send for IM, how perfectly hypnotic the show is for TV, how controversial you can be for imagebaords.

In my own words, the medium encourages games for our own ends. Sidelines and then you forget again what you're even trying to do. Did you have anything to do anymway? Another way to lose yourself, as with most mediums. So here we can morph the discussion and now we bother with whoever can wrangle emotions the most, lobotomize me more!
Ironic conversation :~) we yield to the power of images again

>>239128
also really liked your posts and screencapped them, had similar thoughts but couldn't put them into words.

>>239270
It's not entirely irrational. Using anime pictures often means the person is an extreme autist with flawed reasoning.

Would Barack Obama use anime pictures next to a message? Or Alexander the Great? Or the emperor of Japan?

The message matters the most, but using an anime picture next to it is like having a pile of shit at the entrance to a Hilton Hotel. Why would you sabotage your own creation like that?

You are devaluing yourself and your ideas by these stupid anime associations.
Anime is immature, lowbrow and low value. A good accompanying image provides some context to the post.

>>239270
The anime picture is like a protective shield for the personal and intelligible mind behind the post. It functions as an admittance of strong affiliation towards the whole anime culture. If you want to argue with the poster you also argue with an anime fan. It's likely that a an autistic nerd is behind the post and many can relate to that on image boards. Thus a bias is created as other anime fans directly understand something about the poster before even reading the post. The anime pic beforehand, before reading the content of the post, gives away something about the intentions of the post. As the pic refers to a culture makes anything that the poster says more agreeable if you as well affiliate to that culture, as in it appeals to all the anime fans out there. It reveals a certain type of personal interest and cultural preference of the poster that is hard to argue against because it's a successful media and when you want to critizise the content of the post you indirectly critizise the anime culture. No matter the content of the post, the fact that it's backed up with anime draws it at a common cultural context that makes it more agreeable for many even when they think differently.

That said, I don't dislike anime per se. I like watching it from time to time. But it's like with all fan communities really - when arguing about something unrelated they really should not be brought up to topic.

>>239377
you can say the exact same thing about every type of image that doesn't provide context like using memes, celebrities or art/photography in general, providing a different but similar agreeable culture. If the anime-image gives away something about the post as you say then it has context, and if not then why would you find it hard to argue with the written statement? If someone shits on my floor I won't like them just because they are an anime-fan.

>>239377
>>239328
This is why I don't put anime pics in my posts though I like watching anime. It's not relevant to a discussion unless we're literally discussing anime.

>>239328
> Using anime pictures often means the person is an extreme autist with flawed reasoning.

Judging the merit of the text inside a book based on the cover is flawed as well and when it concerns a short post on an imageboard where is your excuse?
The flawed reasoning is thinking that an image someone posts alongside with what they say affects the argument the person is presenting when this is simply not the case
If the anime poster decided to use Schopenhauer or a image of a wizard as the image instead of an anime succubus does it actually change the argument? no.

You have all shown that you lack the basic skills required to logically examine and argue against the argument someone is making and I am surprised to see not one of you but 3 of you defend the idea that the image posted next to the text affects the validity of said text.

Does attaching an anime picture to something actually lower the validity of whatever statement is made or is it really just that you do not know how to think beyond a child or a normalfag would?

>>239379
>you can say the exact same thing about every type of image that doesn't provide context

Yes and it would be true for most images. Images generate attention and add to the meaning of a post even if it's only indirect. We have to assume that the poster is a self conscious being implying that it's a deliberate decision to add the picture to their post. The intentions of the picture often might not be clear to the poster themselves but surely there have to be some.
Therefore it would be wrong to simply hide the picture with the image board settings. The pic changes the post. If it's a female for example we have to assume that the poster doesn't think whatever he writes is important enough to stand for its own. If it's a pic of nature, which is probably as neutral as it gets, it still conveys a certain subcontext to the post. Sometimes pics can improve a post but in the case of anime the intention to create an 'agreeable culture' is very clear imho.

>If the anime-image gives away something about the post as you say then it has context
The problem with anime, just like celebs and most pictures refering to spefic cultural context, is that the context is not known to everyone. If the pic for example refers to a certain anime show or character and the content of the post is in some symbolic way connected to that show, than the 'knowing' persons will interpret the post differently than persons who don't know that show. And the ones who know that show will be more likely to understand and agree with the content of the post because theres a mutual, cultural connection beyond the analytical substance of the text.

>>239227
Parroting "not an argument" over and over whenever you can't reply to an argument isn't an argument, certainly. I won't bother to repeat myself why I don't consider meme-graphs and charts as actual arguments. Anyone who used imageboards for longer than a few days probably understands what I mean.
>religion
If you consider such primitivity as the rain-god example as philosophy then you can consider everything as philosophy. I just took a shit, wow, deep I can philosophize too. Which actually kind of proves my previous points, that philosophy is just wordplays.
>ramble on about your own views
That is what we are supposed to do, mate. Though I wouldn't call more than 2-sentence paragraphs rambling, thanks for proving you are just another gen-z kid who grew up on twitter.
You are falsely assuming I read summaries or watch videos about philosophy. You couldn't be more wrong. If I read philosophy then I always read the source material instead of what scholars think of it. I probably read more philosophy than you ever bothered with, at least I came to this realization based on your posts.
>Stop watching cartoons made for children/teenagers
Ah and now he goes and runs to his last stand, the majority opinion. You are behaving exactly like a normalfag. "Have fun" reading philosophy because it is the mature thing to read, according to society anyways. Maybe once you reach 20 you won't place so much emphasis on the opinion of others.

I also really like how you conveniently ignored all the problems of philosophy I mentioned. Great going, man. Run back to your little ivory tower of intellectualism and read some Ortega or Nietzsche to calm down your raging nerves. (Probably you never read anything other than Nietzsche and some greeks but let's pretend you did.)

>>239248
Art IS better at everything than philosophy. This is simply proven by the fact that art can still be enjoyable even if you disagree with the idea the artists tries to convey to you. I can enjoy religious movies even though I'm not religious, for example.
In the case of philosophy you either agree with the author in which case you probably keep reading or you don't agree with him and you throw it aside as trash.

>>239323
Thanks. I am just sick of the (pseudo)intellectuals thinking they are so smart and wise when they only read some useless and empty texts written by some guys who are considered by society to be wise. True wisdom is what makes us better as persons, not abstract theories that have nothing to do with life. Good is what improves us and gets us ahead of ourselves, not empty rhetorics and good sounding but shallow sentences.

>>239400
>thanks for proving you are just another gen-z kid
Don't group us all together animeanon. I'm from the gen-z and I agree with you here (and also here >>239134 but senpai didn't notice me)

>>239403
Why ever bother to label yourself by your birthdate?

>>239404
In this case I was just responding to that anon post. So he might not think everyone from gen-z is a brainlet.

>>239411
>>239400
>I don't consider meme-graphs and charts as actual arguments
Its not either of those things, not an argument. Also yes, I say "not an argument" alot because you don't write any arguments. If you could mange to write an argument, I would address it, until then I will continue to repeat myself if you continue to not present any actual arguments.
>That is what we are supposed to do, mate.
Talking to yourself is not human communication.
>Ah and now he goes and runs to his last stand
Meanwhile you ignored the vast majority of my post just to focus on this since it's the only thing your anime rotted brain can handle. Even then you failed because your own criticism is that that the majority of people hold that opinion, I suppose you also think that the eating is not necessary to survive since the majority holds that view too.
>conveniently ignored all the problems of philosophy
Just like you "conveniently" forget to write arguments and skip over the vast majority of my post? I didn't address your monologue-like paragraph where you spoke to yourself since you had not even understood what I wrote in previous posts, yet were delving into another layer of trash for me to go over. That same layer of trash wasn't regarding the previous points, because I assume you didn't want to actually have to defend them or your views, instead you just want to reaffirm your own thoughts that you lack confidence in by speaking to yourself over and over again.

Even pretending like I had only read Nietzsche and some Greeks, that would have been more than you, who hasn't eve bothered to read the most famous book by the most famous philosopher of all time. Otherwise as I've said, you would have grasped what I said about Art many posts ago. Stop lying on the internet, go read instead of watching anime.

>>239400
You actually got filtered by philosophy and praise art as a cope. That's downright pathetic.

>>239403
>>239400
Anime posters holding hands like a loving pair. It's like clockwork. You two just proved what was said earlier in the thread. Keep hiding behind your anime fantasies and tell yourself you know something about the world. It's better that way.

>>239409
You're not helping with that.

Funny that the anime haters have shown they are unable to separate unrelated stimuli from the ideas yet still attack the anime posters.

>>239419
Your posts should stand on their own merit without quirky anime pictures attached. We need to hold ourselves to a higher standard of quality posting. This isn't 4chan

>>239419
I'm perfectly capable of doing that. I don't even care if they post a teletubby next to some quantum physics. The content matters.

It's just unnecessary, unfunny and as someone said above low value.

>>239403
No problems here. There are always exceptions. I simply don't like how most kids or teens nowadays can't read a paragraph longer than a few sentences without bitching, just like my "debate-partner" doesn't seem to have the necessary attention span to read posts that are more than a few words. Makes you wonder then how he is able to read philosophy at all.

>>239412
Ah, go on and on. No argument, yep. Anything that doesn't fit into your narrative is no argument. You say that talking to myself is no communication yet I'm making a reply to you even at this moment. Either answer already or just admit that you don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation.
Exactly which points are you talking about that I ignored? I already explained how art and religion came first before philosophy was ever a thing. And no, religion isn't philosophy like you and others try to imply. Read Schopenhauer and Nietzsche properly, they were the most vehement supporters of separating the two completely and they were right in this. Art and religion deal with unknown instincts, feelings and passions themselves mainly. They are elementary, basic, more powerful than philosophy ever was. Philosophy came from additional commentaries that were made for religious works and/or art pieces. Philosophy has more in common with rhetorics than anything. Any other questions, wizbrat?
Your example about eating and the majority is retarded beyond imagination. It is objectively true that you will suffer and then die if you don't eat. It isn't objectively true that anime can be enjoyed by only children and philosophy by mature persons. Grow up. You desparately try to paint yourself in the image of an intellectual person, at least according to how the majority and society imagines an intellectual person to be. This is related to another fault of the culture that has been built around philosophy too: nonsensical elitism. If you want to be a popular philosopher you shouldn't be original or anything like that, no heaven forbid, you should refer to and mention as many previous philosophers (in other words, persons who are thought to be wise by tradition and the majority) as you possibly can. As if Socrates, Rousseau, Kant or Nietzsche embody wisdom itself! Absolutely ridiculous, this idol-worship is. It is no different from the ordinary people looking up to celebreties and looking always out on Instagram what they will post next. You don't develop original or critical thinking by parroting what others said before you and running always to quote "authority" figures. Seriously, philosophy created more brain-dead retards than mainstream culture ever did.
You say I'm givin monologues. What can I do if my debate-partner doesn't intend to defend his own opinions and doesn't want to engage in the discussion? Fuck off. Again, answer my questions, if you can.
>layer of trash
Hypocrisy. If you read in the news that unknown Nietzsche or Schopenhauer writings were discovered and you read my posts under their names you would be sucking my dick for how intelligent I am. You don't care about wisdom or truth, you care about catering to the majority opinion.
>stop lying go read
Yeah, saying the same thing all over again. We heard you the first time properly, no need to write down the same thing the nth time. Shithead.

>>239416
Or I filtered philosophy. But like the other poster you can't come up with any actual counter-argument to the problems of philosophy I mentioned. The mask has slipped and now people can see that it was all fools pretending to be sages all this time. The masquarade is coming to an end, slowly. You can't delude me and others for eternity with empty wordplays.
>art as a cope
Great reference to Schope, man, you an intellectual? Nah, seriously, art as coping is a cliche-argument I disagree with. Art is actual life. How can it be escapism to escape to life from life?

>>239427
As it stands my posts hold the most value in this thread and they mostly come with anime pictures. You should keep to your own words and write quality posts instead of "stop posting pictures - on an im.board - from a kind of media I dislike". This anti-anime sentiment is just trying to find fault with something you can't form an argument against. What will be the next? "Write in italics or fuck off!" Great debate culture you people trying to form here.

>>239433
>I filtered philosophy

You do realize that your post is philosophical by nature? You reflect on certain statements and try to argue your opinions. Hell, you even try to sound as intellectual as possible. You make discursive references that only a person knows who engaged in the intellectual circle jerk for some time. Ironically you philosophize more than some of the posters that you reply to. Yet you downgrade and dismiss what you are doing yourself in desperate blindness to your own behavior. Philosophy is just working with thought and that's exactly what you are doing. You're only too insecure to admit that you still have a need to defend your ideas.

Art without philosophy is like sauce without grounding. It's a child's endeavor. Good art always plays with philosophical ideas. You simply have a very wrong idea of what philosophy is about, probably because you are not able to understand that you don't know everything and have a wrong concept of many things.

>>239433
Another garbage post, I'll have to do a lot of green text to go over the seemingly ever increase desperate accusations you come up with.

>narrative
You mean you not having an argument or answer to what I provided?
>religion isn't philosophy like you and others try to imply.
Not what I implied, you are delusional. Read my post >>239145 again, do it slowly this time.
>Exactly which points are you talking about that I ignored? I
When you dismissed half my post claim it was a shitpost, the irony of that being lost on you of course. And again skipping over the discussion of what art is, since you have no answer for what I've stated art is. Neither have you comprehended it still, despite how many hints I drop you since you haven't even bothered to read any philosophy books at all. That or you skipped the foundation of what is thought of as philosophy itself.
> It isn't objectively true that anime can be enjoyed
It is objectively true that the vast majority of anime is made for children, which is what I said.
>nonsensical elitism
Stop crying, this has nothing to do with what we are talking about, you are either desperate to change topics but I'm not interested, or you are just using this as an elongated insult.
>You don't develop original or critical thinking by parroting what other
If you had read philosophy instead of lying on the internet then my referring to authors and their ideas is a quick way to exchange complex philosophical ideas. Unfortunately you haven't done so, so for you it just seems I am using it to gain some higher ground.
>What can I do if my debate-partner doesn't intend to defend his own opinions
I have, you don't offer any real argumentation and at this point have devolved into pointless accusations/insults out of rage since you don't like having to actually think or put in effort to provide real rebuttals.
>ou would be sucking my dick
see above
>saying the same thing all over again
the truth is rather static I suppose.


Its clear you have given up at this point, so honestly this is probably my last post to you. Have a good day delusional anime poster, please read philosophy, specifically you need to start at the basics. At least read Plato, then you can discuss what art is with me since you can't figure out what I'm talking about on your own.

>>239480
He's a stubborn sophist. He will never get the jist of philosophy and certainly not of Plato. Pointless to even try reading it for him.

>>239490
What I find hilarious is that he could have just googled "art is a lie" and it would have brought him to a Stanford summary of the republic, which would have been enough to at least continue pretending he has read anything at all, and maybe even have a conversation. Hell I even hinted that I wanted him to go do that by telling him "most famous philosophy and his most famous book" multiple times. I suppose if he was willing to search that, then he would have been willing to engage in proper arguments in general, instead of making grandiose monologues or desperate accusations. Anime posters are just low effort, low quality, and low thought posters in general. Truly makes me regret making the mistake of replying to them each time I do it honestly.

>>239433
>Makes you wonder then how he is able to read philosophy at all.
They are pretending to be hardcore in philosophy but all this "not an argument" thing makes the other posters look very childish and further reinforces the point that you need a certain inteligence to appreciate things like anime (which these posters ironically call immature).

>>239521
>don't write a proper argument
>get upset when people people say you haven't written an argument
>accuse them of being childish for not playing pretend argumentation with you
lol anime posters.

>>239521
I noticed this especially with moe that people need to be able to let go of their ego and enjoy something cute for the sake of enjoying it and not to appear intelligent at all which is hilarious as anime is not really the medium you would consume if you wanted to appear intelligent anyway.

You can tell they are stupid because they actually think by posting a cute image it affects the points you are making so they are unable to even argue to begin with at all so no point trying.

>>239435
Philosophy is like a poison you can only fight with poison. The best way to decontrsuct philosophy is by way of philosophy. The intellectual man lives entirely in another world so I need to use the language of philosophy to get to him.
I never argued against "philosophical art", I argue against pure philosophy. I liked the Stranger by Camus for example. I'm not against philosophy in art, I'm against the field of study that is philosophy. It is kind of hard to express well, but the movie Taxidriver expresses the nihilism of modern age much better than any philosophical work ever did. Art can simply deliver more powerfully and effectively the same thing philosophy tries to deliver but fails most of the time.

>>239480
>>239518
Learn to articulate your thoughts properly instead of green-texting like some low-attention-span teenager. Replying sentence to sentence just shows you can't formulate your thoughts into a coherent narrative.
Now, you still fail to deliver any actual counter-arguments. You cry "b-but Plato said…!" like it has any effect on the truth of the matter. This dogmatic, "theological" thinking is what ruins philosophy always. You lack any argument of your own and hide behind Plato. Plato was a human being, just like you and me. If you ask me, he is one of the most overrated philosophers who lived by the way. He doesn't come up with anything concrete and really isn't different at all from the sophists he was so envious of. Oh, and he also encourages that adult men should court teenage boys, do you think we should follow him in this too? He wrote lots of stupid shit but academia and the elite always considered him as "classic" so no one is allowed to touch the holy cow. His definition of art is wrong too, like I stated earlier. Art, even the most abstract kind is about life. Even the weirdest fantasy is based on real life on some level or what, do you think art suddenly just pops into people's head from another dimension? If anything is a lie then it is philosophy and I also explained this earlier.
Anime isn't made for children, the otaku audience in Japan is mostly made up of men in their 20s.

Stop hiding behind names of "authority" and offer your own thoughts or don't bother replying. If I wanted to read Plato I would read "Complete Plato", and not engage in discussions with trolls like you on anonymous imageboards.

>>239490
Don't use words you don't understand. Philosophers and philosofags like you are the true descendants of sophists. Since philosophy never really managed to evolve into a proper study, it is still just wordplays and playing around, playing the role of some "enlightened" sage. Yeah, fuck off.

>>239521
>>239528
They are teenagers probably so they can be excused. I was very enthusiastic and passionate too when I first discovered philosophy and I played the smug intellectual too until I realized that philosophy is just a meme-study. It was always a joke to begin with. Nowadays I can sit back and relax, enjoying "trash" media way better than I ever enjoyed philosophy at all.

>>237098
My mother is also shockingly anti-intellectual, despite having multiple university degrees.

She is deeply repulsed by anyone with 'intellectual' interests and hobbies. Doubly so if it's a technical subject like math or physics. It is truly surreal. And I do mean sincere disgust.

For example, she talks about people like engineers or software developers like they are lepers. Because computers and math are icky or something. So I guess she thinks anyone related to that is icky too?

Of course she behaves like this while driving a luxury SUV and always having the latest iPhone, and in general benefitting immeasurably from modern technology.

Worst myth that has existed on this board for ages. Normalfags for the most part know a hell of a lot more about many things than any wizard. Mostly through life experiences and actually being able to make living 'alive' by having relationships, friends and a purpose.

So yes, being a normalfag is better. You can argue that normalfags are ignorant "sheep" who will never understand a wizards plight in this world, bit it is the opposite. They know, and they don't care. They understand wizards are losers, and that is where it ends. They can't change that and don't want to, why lower yourself to deal with a wizard. It is unfair, its horrid and its fucking shit. That's how it is.

bump

>>239749
Most succubi don't like the kind of person who created or programmed their iPhone or luxury SUV.

They only like the type of man who markets, drives or uses them.

Nerds and geeks are just an annoying autistic inconvenience for most succubi. One of the reasons this world is so fucked up.

>>239812
Fuck off back to 4chan normie, and don't let the door hit you on the way out. This place handed your ass to you and now you're salty about it.

I love reading your 80 IQ "normies are so much better" rants which you vomit out each week.

>>243323
What did he wrote that was wrong? How can you wizards be so depressed and self loathing and then think that you're somehow better then normies? The levels of delusion and cope in these boards is mind boggling.
I want to kill myself, but more then that I would have loved to just start over as a normie.

>>243333
I would rather be dead than be a normie.

Who started all the wars, genocides, who supports extreme inequality? Normies.

Who created art, computers, interesting entertainment, imageboards and everything worthwhile in the world? Non-neurotypicals

>>243335
I dunno man, a lot of those things you mentioned were pioneered or improved upon by mostly neurotypical people.

>>237098
"The moment a man questions the meaning and value of life, he is sick, since objectively neither has any existence; by asking this question one is merely admitting to a store of unsatisfied libido to which something else must have happened, a kind of fermentation leading to sadness and depression." -Sigmund Freud

>>243778
Reminder that this idiot had a very big impact on the normals of the previous century. I can pull stuff out of my ass too, please call me Doctor Wiz and do everything I say…because I have doctor in my name!

>>243336
Not true. Even most great artists to ever live were severely mentally ill. A normie could never, ever create anything Vincent van Gogh did.

>>243781
Depends what you call normie. Van Gogh was definitely normie by wizchan standards since he went to brothels A LOT.

>>243781
I'm suggesting that, on average, there is a greater representation of neurodiverse people on the frontiers of things like the arts and sciences–but they are by no means the majority. Most of the people picking up the slack, most painters of Van Gogh's time, were likely neurotypical.

>>243786
>Most of the people picking up the slack, most painters of Van Gogh's time, were likely neurotypical.
Yet you people are talking about the crazy person still even nowadays while all those normalfag painters of the past are obscured by the fame of the insane and strange genius.

What about DaVinci? I heard he never married. Coincidence? I think not.

>>243787
He never married because he was probably busy fucking his students in the ass.

>>243787
He was married to his passion. Look, I like Van Gogh as much as you do, but something smacks suspicious about this genius worship. You're romanticizing mental illness and contributing to the fairy tale narrative that all who suffer from it are somehow "special" or "gifted". Sometimes you're just fucked in the head and that's that.

>>243788
This is the modern interpretation of any wizardly character in history. Thank you Freud, I guess. "If he didn't have sex with succubi, well he must have been gay!" Yes, yes. We get it, everything is about sex in the eyes of people like that.

>>243789
Mental illness is a meme, most of the time anyone called crazy nowadays is actually just thinking differently or sees the world in a different light than the majority.
Why do you stand in the way of wizards who want to have a realistic amount of self-love and self-confidence? If you are good at something then you are good at it, regardless of your social position or you being an adult male virgin. There is no connection between being a loser and being a wizard, only if you are a normalfag. If anything, living the solitary life - whether it is voluntary or not - and not engaging in sex and relationship - again, whether it is forced on you or not - helps someone to develop genius-like abilities, to pile up wisdom and knowledge, to get good at something, to have an eye for art and beauty, etc. Stop eating what the normals feed you and think for yourself.

>>243791
>most of the time anyone called crazy nowadays is actually just thinking differently or sees the world in a different light than the majority.
>Why do you stand in the way of wizards who want to have a realistic amount of self-love and self-confidence? If you are good at something then you are good at it, regardless of your social position.

Because he is of mediocre intellectual capacity, he is also American which means he is so indoctrinated into believing your worth as a human is directly tied to how many people you sleep with he is a hopeless lost cause.

You can't argue with people like that because he is at the mental level of an animal rather than a fully developed conscious human.
He literally thinks a human being who sticks their urinal stick into another persons orifice is somehow automatically 'better'.

As said; You cannot reason with these people. There is no point attempting to, any more than there is attempting to convert a flat-earther.

>>243794
At what point did I ever even begin to suggest that a person's sexual worth is in any way a relevant metric for determining overall worth? These are nice accusations you're throwing around, but you forgot to inject a bit of rationality into your drivel.

>>243795
Not the person you're responding to, but isn't that the base premise of every single tourist who comes here?
They genuinely think they are better than everyone else because they copulated with another talking ape.

>>243796
>isn't that the base premise of every single tourist who comes here?
Yes, that's right. Most tourists hold these frivolous ideas. I'm not a tourist, though. Can you tell me how that applies to my conversation with that wiz on neurotypicals? I'd like to receive a thoughtful answer with no enmity, but considering how combative and downright dogmatic this >>243794 poster is being, I don't have high hopes…