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Video game related hobbies go on /games/
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File: 1725480090239.jpg (175.19 KB, 1280x779, 1280:779, ESO182005-5623.8.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

 No.68063[Reply]

I always played around with it in a very disengaged, uncommitted manner. Well, on September 2nd, just a few days ago, I decided to really learn Linux to the point I could truthfully add to my resume to help me find a position somewhere. For that reason, I picked Ubuntu, possibly the most popular, all-purpose Linux distribution out there. I began doing the edx's version of the Linux Foundation's Introduction to Linux course because of the bells and whistles they have there in terms of exercises and whatnot. Unfortunately, they peppered the whole course with unbelievably idiotic mini videos geared towards morons. Imagery of douchebags with designer haircuts typing away at a laptop with some coolcorp background and annoying music.

So I said fuck it, and instead I decided to read the Linux Bible. But then I found out there's an Ubuntu Linux Bible by the same author, and so that's what I'm reading now. Straight to the point, concise, has exercises, not as many as I would like, but I can come up with variations on my own. Today is the third day I'm following the book, and I intend to make a daily post, briefly talking about the stuff I've learned on that day.

The first day was pretty much just going through the fluff. What Linux is, history of Linux, Unix, GNU, what open source is, etc. That's the first 20 pages of the book's 718 pages.

The second day I read about the X Window System, desktop environments, GNOME desktop, Nautilus file manager, and ways to run Linux (live medium, permanent install, etc.). The exercises consist of messing around with the GUI pretty much, something you would naturally do in a fresh install of an OS. I also had to install Ubuntu because I was running Windows. I got lucky because Ubuntu 24.04.1 came with some broken packages for Nvidia drives, and that of course fucked my shit up, which was a very excellent opportunity to do some tinkering and learning. I got it to work, it only took me an hour or so. I read people saying this is the most broken Ubuntu update in years, which I take as a good sign for my timing. And then I broke Light Locker while changing to Xfce as my desktop environment.

Anyway, third day, today, I finally reach the meat of the book and begin messing around with the shell, trying different commands, pretty simple stuff, whoami, pwd, ls, cd, command syntax, hyphenated options for command's behavior, locating commands, and really, just getting comfortable to mess around in the termPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
2 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.68069

>>68068
I made a threa about OS on /lounge/. if somedsy you want to post there, you can, it will be appreciate grandly

 No.68070

File: 1725656870414.jpg (175.33 KB, 1280x1033, 1280:1033, LEDA42160.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

Today I began by reading about how to list files and directories, how to manipulate the way you list them, showing hidden files, how to identify directories, basically the several ways you can use ls. Next up was studying file permissions and ownership. I found this section particularly intriguing because it's always something that comes up on Linux. You try to modify a file or move a file to some folder and can't because you don't have the necessary permission to do so. It's quite brilliant how simple it is once you read exactly how it's all setup. Very simple and organized. You have 3 types of permissions: read/write/execute. Each is assigned a number, and the sum of those numbers determines what you can and can't do. Horizontally, you have the owner of the file, the group assigned to that particular file, and finally all other cases. So if you want to grant full permission, all you have to do is assign 7 to the 3 cases with 'chmod 777 file'. Elegant and effective.

You can also do the same using umark. I'm not sure if there is a difference, but there probably is. Next up was learning how to change file ownership, something you can do easily with chown. I finished the day with the bit about moving, copying, and removing files, also a pretty straightforward process by using mv, cp, rm, and rmdir. Pretty good day today.

Tomorrow I'll be addressing the creation and manipulation of text files.

>>68069
I don't have anything to add actually, I'm not an expert, just an enthusiast.

 No.68075

File: 1725732256848.jpg (153.8 KB, 1280x782, 640:391, NGC634.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

Today I'm stopping a little early today because I have this craving to play some Fallout New Vegas. Anyway, I began with chapter 5, working with text files. Basically, I spent most of the day messing around with Vi. It's a weird editor if you're used to Word or even Nano. Getting used to getting in and out of input mode is tricky, it's easy to make mistakes. That said, it's very simple, and there aren't that many commands to memorize. a, i, o, $, x, X, db, dd, cc, and yy are the ones I used the most. ZZ and :q! also.  I did my grocery list on there just to have something to type. Then there's ex mode, but I kind of skipped this part. I did read it but didn't actually play around with it much.

Next up was finding files, and this part is quite important, so I paid extra attention to it. Locate, find, grep, and the several ways you can manipulate and filter results are all extremely useful, I'm sure. Finding by permission, size, user, date, etc.

 No.68076

File: 1725822678453.jpg (304.54 KB, 1280x1171, 1280:1171, ESO576-69.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

Today I read about running processes and how go manipulate and visualize them in several ways. This is something you want to be good at in order to have a very good control of what your system is doing at all times. Listing processes with ps or top and the several ways to organize that information through -e, -o, uid, etc. The book also goes through renicing, killing and changing priorities for running processes.

I finished today with background and foreground processes and how to manage them, like using & for background and whatnot. Nothing complicated but it's something you want to have under your belt.

Next up is limiting processes with cgroups.

 No.68077

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Today I began with processes and cgroup. Now, there aren't any actual exercises about this part yet but the author thought it was worth mentioning in this chapter just so the reader is aware it exists. There's a lot of other stuff to go through before you start messing around with control groups. Still, very cool read. Then it was time for the exercises. I found it rather lenient, even if I did have to look up my history here and there to remember a couple of commands. Here's the first 3 exercises (out of 9) 1. List all processes running on your system, showing a full set of columns. Pipe that output to the less command so that you can page through the list of processes. 2. List all processes running on the system and sort those processes by the name of the user running each process. 3. List all processes running on the system and display the following columns of information: process ID, username, group name, virtual memory size, resident memory size, and the command.
As you can see it's just a way to see if you retained basic inputs. If you really want to dig in on the content, you'll need to be doing stuff on the side and googling the little details as you go, which is something I'm doing.

Chapter 7 is all about writing shell scripts, but first the author goes on about what is a shell script, why would you want one, executing and debugging shell scripts, shell variable and shell positional parameters. As you might expect, your first script is just echo sentences with parameters involved. There's also explanations about parameter expansion which is a fundamental step to have an useful script going. I stopped on programming constructs. We'll see how it goes from here, this was the most fun chapter so far.



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 No.60825[Reply]

Pipe tobacco is a hobby, right? There's the element of collecting pipes and trying various blends, which resembles wine tasting in how elaborately some people talk about them. Any wiz pipe smokers here? Any favourite blends you'd recommend? Show me your wizpipe(s) (no homo).

Here's my pipe and some tobacco I'm currently smoking. The one in the tin is Old Gowrie
28 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.67326

>>67324
youre discussing something different that im not. its ok. its not easy to always be understood. i didnt do what you said either, you would do well to learn the difference between implication and inference. its as though you are projecting a bunch of stuff onto me its strange kind of but that's ok too. most people here are going to be a little messed up at least.

 No.67957

>>67300
I somewhat agree and I don't recommend that hobby to anyone. That being said…
>Imagine wanting to ruin the precious lining of the lungs
You don't inhale while pipe smoking; the most you gonna ruin is the lining of your mouth.
>Say not to drug wizards.
I don't smoke my pipe at all during winter because going outside to do so sucks then. And even now, when weather is perfect for this activity, I don't smoke more often than once or twice a week. Does it sound like something a drug addict would say?


>>63263
>Please don't say aromatics, haha
Man, I wish they were still available in Poland :/ Damn EU enforcing their retarded rules

 No.68071

I smoke a pipe 3 time a week or so, i chief it hard, never understood the puffing thing

 No.68072

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>>60825
I myself am thinking of switching to a pipe
I smoke a half a pack a day and I don't go anywhere, other than to get food or cigs
I figure a pipe and a bag of tobacco would be more cost effective

 No.68073

>>68072
I inhale a couple times but its not like smoking cigs where you inhale all the time



 No.64758[Reply]

The only hobby I had for a long time was gaming. Recently I quit cold turkey and I need something else to fill the time. I've been reading instead and that's pretty fun but it isn't as comfy as gaming. I need to find something that makes me want to wake up in the morning but everything I try I get bored of. Sometimes it's a few months, sometimes a few years, sometimes a week, but I get bored. No hobbies really sound interesting to me, and even if they do there's always something shitty about them. Should I just go back to gaming?
19 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.68053

>>68052
And yet lots of people use their hobbies precisely to distract themselves from their depression. I don't think it's as simple as you say. No hobby is inherently enjoyable, it depends on what it does for you and what purpose it serves for you. For example, take the hobby of reading books and compare the experience of reading for the sake of reading (because you heard that it's good thing from somewhere) and reading because you care about a specific question or problem or conundrum and the book in your hands has the potential to answer it. Obviously you'd feel more compelled to do it in the second scenario - same activity, different context around it. By making progress through the book you are also making progress towards a valued state in which you remove the tension in your mind (curiosity) or remove the consequences of the problem you are trying to solve - this is a basic psychological reward mechanism. Now, imagine you're stuck in the wilderness and I throw you a "how to survive guide", the book would immediately be compelling and feel like a priority to you and you would savor every page of it, simply because of the context.

In cases of anhedonia, I don't believe there is anything wrong with your sense of pleasure, it is not some deadening of nerves or anything biological, but rather, the context surrounding various activities simply changes in a way that makes them uncompelling. Why read books when everyone thinks you're an idiot, why take a shower when your body is disgusting and unattractive, why brush your teeth when you'll likely commit suicide soon… Whether you find a particular action compelling and even rewarding, emerges entirely from the environment and its relation to the person.

So finding a hobby is about two things, in my opinion:
(1) waiting for a purpose to become salient in your environment then matching it with an activity that promises to fulfil it i.e. you start reading books because that's the best way to inform yourself and gain some specific knowledge to solve a specific problem you have or settle your burning curiosity.
(2) discovering a concrete path from A to B that "works" (demonstrably through lived experience, not mere hearsay) i.e. just because you anticipate that you can use a pen and paper to potentially draw anime tiddies (highly desirable valued state), doesn't mean that you know HOW to Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.68054

I don't think you will find a hobby as easily dopamine-inducing as gaming unless you find passion in it, gaming is design to give you easy dopamine hits, everything else requires more effort or is less rewarding (at least it is until your dopamine receptors return somewhat to normal levels again). Having said that, there are loads of hobbies out there, including cheap and easy ones, from cooking to model-building, gardening to world-building, you just need to explore until you find something that interests you.

 No.68065

>>64758
The problem with video games is that they are designed to give you quick dopamine hits and feeling of acomplishment, which makes it hard to switch to a hobby that makes you feel acomplished after a longer time.
As a hobby I would reccomend either learning a languege (for example japanese) or something creative, writing, drawing or making a video game for example.
You will need to force yourself to commit to this type of hobby for a few weeks to stop your brain from craving the instant dopamine of video games or anime and to start really enjoying the hobby.

 No.68066

>>68065
>I would reccomend either learning a languege (for example japanese)
>stop your brain from craving the instant dopamine of video games or anime
I learned Japanese through video games and anime though.

 No.68067

>>68065
I think what makes video games so easily rewarding is the fact that they teach the player how to accomplish the virtual task, or they make it very obvious in some way so that the player can get there quickly with trial-and-error. Real world activities on the other hand are not at all obvious and they could take much more than a few weeks to really zero in on what you're supposed to be doing. They only become rewarding when you anticipate success and before that you're just wandering around in a dark forest, completely lost, which doesn't feel rewarding - whether you're addicted to "quick dopamine hits" or not. Some people are lucky and manage to sit down with a pen and paper and just immediately figure out a simple feedback loop that works. You don't necessarily need to be a world class artist to feel enjoyment, but something that makes you think "oh this is working!"

So in my opinion, it's much more of a question of HOW rather than WHEN or undoing bad habits or "dopamine detox" crap. If grandma sits down to play Dark Souls, she's not going to have a good time because there's such a big gap between A to B and she will never find it. An experienced player can pick up the game and enjoy it relatively quickly.

To take the example of language learning, it's not really enjoyable until you figure out the activities that lead to progress and you notice your comprehension increasing. Until then, it's very boring and tedious and many people quit.



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 No.64932[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Book discussion. Tell us what you're reading.
Previous threads:
>>60032
>>54504
287 posts and 58 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.68048

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_on_the_Galactic_Railroad
I bought this book, it has inspired leiji matsumoto' ge 999 (my favorite anime). I hope I'll enjoy it

 No.68058

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Just read On Bullshit. I was expecting a fun and quirky take on an interesting subject. However, in spite of being very short, it was intensely boring and pointless. There is an amusing gag at the end, but it does not seem to be a conclusion of the preceding material, so I don't really see the point of any of this.

 No.68059

>>68058
>On Bullshit
A classic right up there with such barcade gender-neutral bathroom softcovers like "The Art Of Not Giving A Fuck", "Having A Normal One", and "What Your Zodiac Sign Says About Your Vibes"

 No.68060

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>>64932
A book I've been reading frequently over the past couple of years is Sargant W's Battle for the Mind. If you're interested in stuff like propaganda, influence operations, brainwashing, etc… this is a great book to understand the physiological basis of how these things work. It also has a whole chapter on how to prevent the effects of influence/brainwashing.

 No.68061

File: 1725432147820.jpg (42.81 KB, 289x475, 289:475, a.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

I got recommended "Legend" by David Gemmell.
Classic 80s fantasy.
I'm 2/3 in and it's not very good so far.

It's about several protagonists traveling to a fortress to defend it against an impossibly large horde of tribesmen inspired by the Mongols. The actual siege just started, so maybe it will get better from now on.


[Last 50 Posts]

 No.67098[Reply]

Post youtube channels that are clearly made by a wiz, NEET or hikkis, and made for the same demographics and not for normies.
13 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.68050

>>67134
Good autist channel. Some of his videos miss. But when they hit, they hit real good.

 No.68051

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>>68050
If this user doesn't have a post history (or he does and it's 100% faggotry), then he (HE) is probably Star / OsakaSyndrome HIMself self-promoting like HE does on Uboachan

 No.68055


 No.68056

>>68051
star is not a tranny

 No.68057

>>68056
He 100% was, with a video titled "STAR IS TRANS", then for the next 2 years he insisted people call him a she and a her. Pretty sure his parents forced him out of it. Previous claims about him being a two-faced creep in order to doxx his "friends" if they don't do his bidding still remain.

There was a guy who had a NEET youtube channel and he used to post here, let's call him Elliot. He was part of this "Star" man's Discord clique. Elliot mentioned in a short daily video about how he wasn't comfortable that this dude suddenly wanted to be regarded as a succubus, and that he won't be talking to Star anymore. Star went "smug coping gay retard tranny mode" and downloaded a bunch of Elliot's videos, doxxed his name and address through one of his eBay listings, and tried to make a thread on some Kiwifarms clone. Elliot had to vanish and still Star goes around soliciting old video of Elliot's for the cringe compilation archive channel.

>>68055
1. has multple dating site profiles
2. has had multiple jobs
3. hangs out with friends regularly
4. is a gay pedofile that makes videos brutally mocking real baby victims of sex torture
5. Facedoxxes regularly

I fucking hate that such vapid discussions about literal who internet tranny pedofile microcelebrities has to come up, but when it does it's any informed guy's responsibility to prevent the thread from being used by trannies and other nonwizards to



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 No.63372[Reply]

16 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.64711

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>>64710
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=onmqbI5XPH8

Follow this tutorial closely and it should all be ok. I had problems a couple of things, but I think that's because I dick about with my computer settings too much. If you follow this one, make sure to download 3.10.6 python, because it doesn't work on newer or older versions, surprisingly. And when installing python, make sure to check the box for adding a path variable. If you get stuck on a step make a post here and I or someone else might be able to help get it started. It isn't brilliant with human figures and faces, but for actual artwork I can see why all the web artists are frightened.

I can't stop making loosely inspired Gerhard Richter seascapes at the moment.It even gets the canvas effect right.

 No.64716

File: 1680550656504.png (Spoiler Image, 1.22 MB, 2000x286, 1000:143, ClipboardImage.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>64711
do not ever use software that
-is not a self-contained binary
-does not have a simple one click installer
-requires techbro youtuber faggots to explain how to install and use the thing


get a gui for stable diffusion. i personally use 'NMKD' because it takes care of installing stable diffusion and getting all the bullshit it needs, it does it all for you. but any gui or frontend for sd is better than nothing

when you eventually learn enough about how to run and generate images, next you will want to experiment with different models. go to https://civitai.com/ to find stuff


unrelated but here is an inpainting demonstration using nmkd. you select the area you want to replace, see what generates. when it doesn't look right you crank down the image influence and let it go wild and basically RNG something aesthetic. when you get something good, you can raise the influence just enough so the image remains visually constant but there is enough variation to allow you to see any possible improvements. when you find something good, you use that as your new starting image and adjust the mask to fix any areas that aren't good. you do this repeatedly until the whole is something you are ok with. this is my process at least

 No.64719

>>64716
Never use software that
-isn't FLOSS
-you don[t hage to compile for yourself
-requiresmyou to type ~/configure make make install
-has less than 15 dependencies
-doesn't require specific versions of some dependencies
-you can install without having to modify the makefile
-takes less than a day to compile with 4 processors
-doesn't throw warnings throughout compilation
-doesn't require rust
-doesn't require dbus
-doesn't require systemd
-comes with proper documentation

 No.64723

>>64719
FLOSS is cool but i like the unlicense better, all the rest of that is actual aids hell

 No.68041

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 No.67621[Reply]

are you into dolls? seems a comfy hobby. I have none but if there's some of you who have them, can you share with us?
4 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.67652

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>>67646
Is that a sex doll or just a big doll?
Anyway I thought about getting a dollfie-dream bjd for a very long time, collected pictures for months of parts, wigs, clothing and whatnot but in the end I just had to come to terms with the fact it's just too expensive for me. I thought about getting a cheaper brand like Parabox but it's not the same thing. My original idea was to make a Madotsuki out of dollfie-dream parts but that involves skills I don't have like sewing.

 No.67653

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>>67652
I think it's a sexdoll.also, sorry but I didn't get a word of what you said, I'm not an expert on dolls haha
>>67650
in the future, we'll have more realistic dolls

 No.67654

>>67621
>are you into dolls?

no, I have no interest in dolls and find this shit vaguely creepy.

 No.68039

>>67621
No is an expensive hobby. If I had the money I would buy a Suigintou doll tho

 No.68040

File: 1724354783557.jpg (838.5 KB, 2578x3867, 2:3, GVmEgNzXcAEYhsi.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

Cloth dolls of a non-embarrassing nature are popping up



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 No.63672[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

All you need to begin drawing is a pencil and some paper

Feel free to post any drawings of yours in this thread. Illustration, doodle, traditional, digital - anything goes. Discussion on skillbuilding techniques and fair critique of other wizards' work is welcome.

last thread
>>61410
264 posts and 133 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.68009

>>68008
why did you stop drawing?

 No.68010

>>68009
because I wanted to know how to draw well and quickly. but it takes time and therefore it discourages me.

 No.68028

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just some random stuff

 No.68037

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>>63672
Here is a quick sketch I made, kinda messed up with the head but rest of body still looks good.
Btw try to guess the anime succubi name and what anime she is from.

 No.68038

>>68037
Uh, robot succubus from Ghost in the shell, idk.
Cool detail, though.


[Last 50 Posts]

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 No.68029[Reply]

Do you have a driver's licence? If so, how did you managed to obtain it? In Eastern Europe, it's pretty hard to get one, a long and painful journey.

It took me almost 1.5 years (including the COVID shutdowns) to get one. I also had to wageslave to be able to pay for the training, it's not cheap around here.

My motivation was that I live in a remote, hilly part of a small town, right next to a forest and there is no public transportation here. I was hold hostage up here, totally isolated. Sound good, but I was totally dependant on my parents to get into the town. I couldn't just go to the groceries, that would be a 2+ hour journey.

It's my single greatest achievement and I'm pretty proud of it. Driving is very useful skill, and one that is realistic and obtainable for NEETs, wizards. A way to make yourself more independent from your parents, others.

What are your thoughts?


(Pic related is not my car)

 No.68030

I have a car, but I don't know how to drive it, I thought I would learn soon.

 No.68035

>>68029
>Do you have a driver's licence?
Yep.
>If so, how did you managed to obtain it?
My parents paid for two courses (I failed the exam after the first one). It was fairly difficult, but it's not rocket science either.
My first driving teacher was the cheapest one I could find and he was pretty shitty. Only after failing the exam I started to look for higher quality ones and that helped a lot. Who knew that not being screamed and shouted at helps with learning?
Anyway, unlike you OP, I was doing it in a big city and I think it helped me a lot; I wouldn't have an opportunity to learn in practice how to deal with huge, multi-lane roads or trams otherwise.
>In Eastern Europe, it's pretty hard to get one, a long and painful journey.
Yep, that's where I am from.
>My motivation was (…)
In my family I was the first person to learn how to drive. It helped us a lot, but at the same time my situation was an opposite to yours: my parents were depending on me to drive them around and that's really bothersome at times. Often there are situations when I'm waiting for hours for my mother because she had some shopping to do. Since she keeps promising me that she'll learn to drive herself but never actual does anything about it, it made me really resent her, from my POV she was blatantly lying and manipulating me for years. Rather than becoming more independent, I now am forced to stay closer to them, as they need my help.
>It's my single greatest achievement and I'm pretty proud of it.
Yeah, it's a good skill to have. Sometimes I regret getting it, but in the long it's a really good choice. Good for you, Anon. Have you went on any cool road trips lately?

 No.68036

>>68029
>Do you have a driver's licence?
Yes, for like 13 years or so.
>If so, how did you managed to obtain it?
I took the exam five times that year.
>In Eastern Europe, it's pretty hard to get one, a long and painful journey.
It is. All officers with whom I took the exams were arrested sometime later for bribery.
>I also had to wageslave to be able to pay for the training, it's not cheap around here.
The more you should be proud about it.
>My motivation was
I wasn't interested in driving in HS, but it is a skill that almost all employers demand. My parents offered to pay so I figured why not. Truth is I'm still shit even today, zero spatial awareness most of the time. I actually avoided to drive for a couple of years after I scratched the side mirror of the company car, never told them. Last year my mother got into car crash and had her licence suspended for six months. Then my father had his leg amputated so I was the only driver around. It was difficult.
>A way to make yourself more independent
This is what's all about. Freedom to go anywhere, anytime.
>(Pic related is not my car)
Nice. Suzukies are reliable.

>>68030
>I thought I would learn soon.
Do it! It is anxiety inducing at first, but when it clicks… purest feeling.

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 No.48726[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Recently I've been getting into photography. I've found that after doing so, I perceive moments in different ways. Things simultaneously seem more transient, yet more permanent. It's a sensation that's difficult to describe, except to say that I am more 'aware' of the moments around me. For obvious reasons I have avoided urban areas, but in terms of landscapes and natural shots, it is quite peaceful.

Any photography hobbyists here?
198 posts and 232 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.67453

>>61435
this is really pretty

 No.67870

I love photography as once in a while I riffle along the photos I take and remember the good and bad memories. Now I don't have to worry about forgetting, I just bring my camera everywhere

 No.67885

Is it possible for a quadriplegic to do photography as a hobby?

 No.68032

File: 1723763188239.jpg (Spoiler Image, 905.88 KB, 2688x2587, 2688:2587, 20240815_163001.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

Not sure about photography as a hobby, but I like taking a ton of pictures for research purposes. Sometimes I come across beautiful ones, sometimes I get ones like this

 No.68034

File: 1723889628465.jpg (607.44 KB, 3000x3000, 1:1, 0c8358f627a3b49f40241dadce….jpg) ImgOps iqdb

>>48726
>Any photography hobbyists here?
I suppose I'm a pro actually.
I went through a course, got certificate and I've went through a couple of months of practice in a studio. I did some photos during a wedding, a baptism or two, learned how to put them on mugs (like pic related), did some photo restorations, but mostly did boring photos of people for their documents like passports and driving licenses.

That being said, my photos are still fucking ugly and I don't have much to show. Somehow once taking photos became a job it also lost a lot of its appeal as a hobby and I haven't touched my SLR camera in years. Funny how that works.


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