This stupid skit (embed related) still gets to me. That's me. I'm that loser, in-the-way, mediocre, never-going-to-invent-shit guy who's in front of you counting out change when you're getting your groceries. I'm that fucking idiot who awkwardly can't decide where he's going nearly causing an accident and holding up a bunch of people who've got shit to do. I'm the one draining my family's resources for a dead end. At some point I have to be asking myself, "Should I really bother being around?"
Against the topic of suicide, I keep hearing all the same arguments along the lines of:
>You're being selfish.
>You're taking the coward's way out.
>Think of how hard you're going to make things for your family.
Etc., as if it's the person committing suicide that's doing something morally wrong. But isn't it the other way around? In fact, isn't it even stronger than that? Isn't it morally impingent upon you TO commit suicide if you aren't contributing anything? At some point of being an absolute drain on society, doesn't it become morally righteous to commit suicide? And, with that said and with that context:
>Isn't committing suicide one of the least selfish things to do?
>Given how difficult it is to do, isn't it the path of the brave?
>In the long run, aren't you making things much easier for your family?
Especially in a world of so many people, and all the threads and comments recently about how much of a rat race/"rat utopia" the world has become, and how none of us are going to make it, and how even if we did anyone after us is only going to have it worse. With all of this, I have to ask, how can anyone have the gall to claim that suicide is bad. Aren't the people who commit suicide the modern day heroes of our society? Isn't suicide the right thing to do?
Against the topic of suicide, I keep hearing all the same arguments along the lines of:
>You're being selfish.
>You're taking the coward's way out.
>Think of how hard you're going to make things for your family.
Etc., as if it's the person committing suicide that's doing something morally wrong. But isn't it the other way around? In fact, isn't it even stronger than that? Isn't it morally impingent upon you TO commit suicide if you aren't contributing anything? At some point of being an absolute drain on society, doesn't it become morally righteous to commit suicide? And, with that said and with that context:
>Isn't committing suicide one of the least selfish things to do?
>Given how difficult it is to do, isn't it the path of the brave?
>In the long run, aren't you making things much easier for your family?
Especially in a world of so many people, and all the threads and comments recently about how much of a rat race/"rat utopia" the world has become, and how none of us are going to make it, and how even if we did anyone after us is only going to have it worse. With all of this, I have to ask, how can anyone have the gall to claim that suicide is bad. Aren't the people who commit suicide the modern day heroes of our society? Isn't suicide the right thing to do?
They are virtue-signalling wealthy normies.
If they had to endure even a week in the shoes of an Indian factory worker they would be contemplating suicide daily.
Their world view is very limited and born out of privilege and economic freedom.
If they had to endure even a week in the shoes of an Indian factory worker they would be contemplating suicide daily.
Their world view is very limited and born out of privilege and economic freedom.
Cope until the rope (suicide). Currently I don't want to kms so I don't really understand posts like this. I suppose when my mom dies or if I stop enjoying/having time to enjoy my copes then I will kms.
It's ignorance the usual platitudes normies give out when faced with a difficult question. Anyone who has experienced true suffering and despair doesn't look down on people who commit suicide.
Anti-suicide was always propaganda by natalist fucks and slave owners. You didn't have a say in being born, and they want to convince you you don't have a say in dying either.
>You're being selfish
Not as selfish as pair of two ugly fuckers bringing me here.
>You're taking the coward's way out.
Very cute. Take the hero's way out and tell me how different it is afterwards.
>Think of how hard you're going to make things for your family.
Fuck them. They didn't think how hard they've made things for me. I'm almost 30, I somehow managed to not breed like a pair of two rabbits, not so hard, is it?
I admire people that had the balls to kill himself, and I have no sympathy for their parents and family - they've made them that way.
>You're being selfish
Not as selfish as pair of two ugly fuckers bringing me here.
>You're taking the coward's way out.
Very cute. Take the hero's way out and tell me how different it is afterwards.
>Think of how hard you're going to make things for your family.
Fuck them. They didn't think how hard they've made things for me. I'm almost 30, I somehow managed to not breed like a pair of two rabbits, not so hard, is it?
I admire people that had the balls to kill himself, and I have no sympathy for their parents and family - they've made them that way.
>Think of how hard you're going to make things for your family
This type of comment is hilarious. It insinuates that everyone do give a fuck about family. Saying that here on wizchan is ironic since most of us were breed from alcoholics, abusive, sociopaths, control freaks, etc. Even normalfags had monstruous parents but the still insist you gotta care about your family, for fucks sake.
This type of comment is hilarious. It insinuates that everyone do give a fuck about family. Saying that here on wizchan is ironic since most of us were breed from alcoholics, abusive, sociopaths, control freaks, etc. Even normalfags had monstruous parents but the still insist you gotta care about your family, for fucks sake.
>>243741
He's not wrong. Most of us here would be way better off being born in a wealthy mentally stable family than in our currently one. Normalfags call a mentally ill promiscuous succubus breeding five kids in a fucking favela and beating the shit out of them everyday maternal love.
He's not wrong. Most of us here would be way better off being born in a wealthy mentally stable family than in our currently one. Normalfags call a mentally ill promiscuous succubus breeding five kids in a fucking favela and beating the shit out of them everyday maternal love.
>>243741
Fuck off, man. To drive a car, you need to pass an exam and there's certain rules you have to abide. Like not driving under influence. It gets even more fucky in other countries and with guns.
But anyone can have a child, hell you can even drink and give it FAS and nobody will bat an eye.
Fuck off, man. To drive a car, you need to pass an exam and there's certain rules you have to abide. Like not driving under influence. It gets even more fucky in other countries and with guns.
But anyone can have a child, hell you can even drink and give it FAS and nobody will bat an eye.
File: 1626112335616.jpg (7.82 MB, 3840x2664, 160:111, crazy-heights-anime-girl-4….jpg) ImgOps iqdb
Oh, give me a break op. If I ever kill myself I certainly won't do it because of some twisted morality and feeling morally superior to others while doing it. Can't we just leave the whole ethics and morals thing behind us entirely? People here should be more intelligent than this.
If anything, the fact that my existence hurst society because I am a leech only makes me want to live…If I kill myself I will do it because I want to and not because of some duty towards the collective.
Normalfags hate people who commit suicide because these things make them feel negative things and bad things, the curtain comes up at times like these and it is revealed to them that the world isn't some kind of Disneyland or non-stop orgies or just chillin and enjoying things. But it becomes clear to them that suffering, pain, despair are very much essential parts of life, no matter how hard they try to ignore them. Normalfags are ultra-hedonists who automatically shut out every fact that makes the world seem like a bad place or twist these facts until they find them acceptable.
They hate the topic of suicide, or people who killed themselves or want to because they want to feel happy-go-lucky all the time. It is this simple. Anti-suicide attitude is a form of self-defense mechanism.
If anything, the fact that my existence hurst society because I am a leech only makes me want to live…If I kill myself I will do it because I want to and not because of some duty towards the collective.
Normalfags hate people who commit suicide because these things make them feel negative things and bad things, the curtain comes up at times like these and it is revealed to them that the world isn't some kind of Disneyland or non-stop orgies or just chillin and enjoying things. But it becomes clear to them that suffering, pain, despair are very much essential parts of life, no matter how hard they try to ignore them. Normalfags are ultra-hedonists who automatically shut out every fact that makes the world seem like a bad place or twist these facts until they find them acceptable.
They hate the topic of suicide, or people who killed themselves or want to because they want to feel happy-go-lucky all the time. It is this simple. Anti-suicide attitude is a form of self-defense mechanism.
>>243783
When did this rose-tinted view of the world become the norm? I'm not sure myself, but I think mass media and entertainment may have had something to do with it.
When did this rose-tinted view of the world become the norm? I'm not sure myself, but I think mass media and entertainment may have had something to do with it.
>>243785
I'm not sure about the rose-tinted part but suicide used to be a natural thing in the ancient, pre-christian world. Many famous persons of the ancient world killed themselves if things got bad enough for them. Then came Christianity and suicide was considered one of the greatest sins. Why? Because theologians realized it was about giving the middle finger to God and your neighbors and we can't have that, the individual can't be free, not even to die, no-no. So you can thank Christianity for this vehement anti-suicide meme that is the trend among normals nowadays, this is the base everything else is built on. Later of course the West decided to go in the direction of materialism but judeo-christian morals remained in the shadows, directing most of law-making, customs and norms. Nowadays the West is in a strange mix of christian morality and neo-paganism, really bizarre and absurd when you think about it. It is materialistic when it encourages sex and hedonism yet it still appeals to christian morals as far as it demands contribution to the collective and wants to preserve the sick and weak at all cost (what for? if you go full materialism there is really no reason to struggle through life if you don't want to). Our culture lost sight of itself and what it even wants to do, doesn't know what it is about anymore. We have the narrative of hedonism, be free and do what you want but of course this means only do what you want as long as you want what we want. It is a chaos of values and we ended up with politicians and leaders who don't even know what they fight for or what they represent.
Anti-suicide mentality is the child of Christianity, which later developed into modern psychiatry - which is nothing other than normals pretending they figured everything out, just like a new religion. So now people don't think you are influenced by the devil and don't shut you up in prison or burn you if you want to die but instead shut you up in insane asylums? What a progress. The worst thing? They think seriously that they are helping you. Mentally castrating you with pills and brainwashing you to think like them is help in their eyes…So much for society.
As for your actual question, the rose-tinted view of the world - my guess is that it is the result of succubi and gays influencing our modern culture. You have to be always happy, otherwise something is wrong! - this is the line of thinking succubi live by and gays (succubi in the bodies of men) too. Being sad is a big no-no, thinking about the problems of the world and deep things? "Nah, go have sex you manchild, make friends and enjoy your life!:^)" Again, thank succubi, modernists, gays and christianity for ruining any chance we had for a decent culture.
I'm not sure about the rose-tinted part but suicide used to be a natural thing in the ancient, pre-christian world. Many famous persons of the ancient world killed themselves if things got bad enough for them. Then came Christianity and suicide was considered one of the greatest sins. Why? Because theologians realized it was about giving the middle finger to God and your neighbors and we can't have that, the individual can't be free, not even to die, no-no. So you can thank Christianity for this vehement anti-suicide meme that is the trend among normals nowadays, this is the base everything else is built on. Later of course the West decided to go in the direction of materialism but judeo-christian morals remained in the shadows, directing most of law-making, customs and norms. Nowadays the West is in a strange mix of christian morality and neo-paganism, really bizarre and absurd when you think about it. It is materialistic when it encourages sex and hedonism yet it still appeals to christian morals as far as it demands contribution to the collective and wants to preserve the sick and weak at all cost (what for? if you go full materialism there is really no reason to struggle through life if you don't want to). Our culture lost sight of itself and what it even wants to do, doesn't know what it is about anymore. We have the narrative of hedonism, be free and do what you want but of course this means only do what you want as long as you want what we want. It is a chaos of values and we ended up with politicians and leaders who don't even know what they fight for or what they represent.
Anti-suicide mentality is the child of Christianity, which later developed into modern psychiatry - which is nothing other than normals pretending they figured everything out, just like a new religion. So now people don't think you are influenced by the devil and don't shut you up in prison or burn you if you want to die but instead shut you up in insane asylums? What a progress. The worst thing? They think seriously that they are helping you. Mentally castrating you with pills and brainwashing you to think like them is help in their eyes…So much for society.
As for your actual question, the rose-tinted view of the world - my guess is that it is the result of succubi and gays influencing our modern culture. You have to be always happy, otherwise something is wrong! - this is the line of thinking succubi live by and gays (succubi in the bodies of men) too. Being sad is a big no-no, thinking about the problems of the world and deep things? "Nah, go have sex you manchild, make friends and enjoy your life!:^)" Again, thank succubi, modernists, gays and christianity for ruining any chance we had for a decent culture.
>>243790
>You have to be always happy, otherwise something is wrong!
This is known as the "cult of positivity" and has been a significant thorn on the sides of pessimists everywhere. Normalfags have literally formed a religion based on good feelings, and you have to abide by their rules otherwise they will make your life more difficult–which is why I tend to avoid them whenever possible.
>You have to be always happy, otherwise something is wrong!
This is known as the "cult of positivity" and has been a significant thorn on the sides of pessimists everywhere. Normalfags have literally formed a religion based on good feelings, and you have to abide by their rules otherwise they will make your life more difficult–which is why I tend to avoid them whenever possible.
>>243800
Not enough hardships like famines and wars these days. Covid is also not lethal enough.
Bring forth real plagues like mass warfare and 90% of those "influencers" will kill themselves when their positive bubble shatters.
Not enough hardships like famines and wars these days. Covid is also not lethal enough.
Bring forth real plagues like mass warfare and 90% of those "influencers" will kill themselves when their positive bubble shatters.
>>243740
You'd first have to get rid of social security otherwise the financial arithmetic wouldn't work out. Then you'd have to decide who gets to procreate and who doesn't.
Good luck with that.
At least OP isn't in the realm of political utopian fantasy.
You'd first have to get rid of social security otherwise the financial arithmetic wouldn't work out. Then you'd have to decide who gets to procreate and who doesn't.
Good luck with that.
At least OP isn't in the realm of political utopian fantasy.
>>243803
No, you don't have to get rid of social security to offer sterilization incentives to drug addicts, the botched and the bungled, chronically homeless etc. That's a decent start. OP's proposal is just extreme psychopathy - to suggest inferior, economically unproductive people (victims of bad genes/societal neglect) should go against their strongest instincts and self terminate. Survival instinct has been imprinted in all living things over millions upon millions of years of selection, asking those already disadvantaged by heredity to make such a sacrifice is perverse.
No, you don't have to get rid of social security to offer sterilization incentives to drug addicts, the botched and the bungled, chronically homeless etc. That's a decent start. OP's proposal is just extreme psychopathy - to suggest inferior, economically unproductive people (victims of bad genes/societal neglect) should go against their strongest instincts and self terminate. Survival instinct has been imprinted in all living things over millions upon millions of years of selection, asking those already disadvantaged by heredity to make such a sacrifice is perverse.
>>243730
>Isn't committing suicide one of the least selfish things to do?
>Given how difficult it is to do, isn't it the path of the brave?
>In the long run, aren't you making things much easier for your family?
Lack of long-term thinking is a sign of low IQ. Normies are incapable of thinking long term or seeing the big picture, which makes them incapable of figuring this out. All they're thinking about is "It will make your family sad NOW".
>Isn't committing suicide one of the least selfish things to do?
>Given how difficult it is to do, isn't it the path of the brave?
>In the long run, aren't you making things much easier for your family?
Lack of long-term thinking is a sign of low IQ. Normies are incapable of thinking long term or seeing the big picture, which makes them incapable of figuring this out. All they're thinking about is "It will make your family sad NOW".
>>243790
Interesting points. But you're forgotting that many people from the past ended their lives because they were driven for external pressure to do so. Christianity brings that suicide is bad in a way to stop that form of killing.
Interesting points. But you're forgotting that many people from the past ended their lives because they were driven for external pressure to do so. Christianity brings that suicide is bad in a way to stop that form of killing.
>>243790
Ajax the Greater was given a disgraceful burial for killing himself long before Christianity was ever conceived of. In the play "Ajax" by Sophocles it's for a different reason, but it IS a dramatic retelling.
Christianity didn't start an "anti-suicide sentiment", it was already there(eg the stoics). Christianity initially attacked "obligatory" suicide, such as when one has done something dishonorable and is now expected by society to die.
Ajax the Greater was given a disgraceful burial for killing himself long before Christianity was ever conceived of. In the play "Ajax" by Sophocles it's for a different reason, but it IS a dramatic retelling.
Christianity didn't start an "anti-suicide sentiment", it was already there(eg the stoics). Christianity initially attacked "obligatory" suicide, such as when one has done something dishonorable and is now expected by society to die.
>>243809
Can't think of a society that didn't practice dishonor suicides. Feudal Europe did, Rome did, feudal Japan is particularly famous for it, China did, the Zuruaha tribe in the Amazon does it.
Why is it so bad to fall on your sword? Well, it deprives the church of tax income and the crown of soldiery if too many people do it!
There you have it, sociopathic leaders are concerned about their resources diminishing, so they decree it's the worst thing you can do.
Can't think of a society that didn't practice dishonor suicides. Feudal Europe did, Rome did, feudal Japan is particularly famous for it, China did, the Zuruaha tribe in the Amazon does it.
Why is it so bad to fall on your sword? Well, it deprives the church of tax income and the crown of soldiery if too many people do it!
There you have it, sociopathic leaders are concerned about their resources diminishing, so they decree it's the worst thing you can do.
>>243804
>to suggest inferior, economically unproductive people (victims of bad genes/societal neglect) should go against their strongest instincts and self terminate.
Aren't you suggesting the same thing just with more steps inbetween?
Also, don't you have the same political problem here?
>don't have to get rid of social security
This is a completely different topic, but even if you kept the current rate of population growth we'd probably have to get rid of social security. $gabajillion trillions of unfunded liabilities, etc., etc..
>>243811
>There you have it, sociopathic leaders are concerned about their resources diminishing, so they decree it's the worst thing you can do.
Ding ding ding.
>to suggest inferior, economically unproductive people (victims of bad genes/societal neglect) should go against their strongest instincts and self terminate.
Aren't you suggesting the same thing just with more steps inbetween?
Also, don't you have the same political problem here?
>don't have to get rid of social security
This is a completely different topic, but even if you kept the current rate of population growth we'd probably have to get rid of social security. $gabajillion trillions of unfunded liabilities, etc., etc..
>>243811
>There you have it, sociopathic leaders are concerned about their resources diminishing, so they decree it's the worst thing you can do.
Ding ding ding.
>>243800
These people are usually obsessed with buddhism and eastern religions in general. I'm not that familiar with them but with I've read that many of them view negative feelings as a bad thing or something that hinders someone from enlightenment. I hate eastern religions and stoicism too for spreading this "it all depends on how you look at things" bullshit female narrative.
>>243806
Is there anyone who ends his life for other reasons than external pressure? If someone enjoys life then the idea of suicide naturally evades him. Getting cornered in a war and killing yourself because you don't want to be crucified or tortured to death by the enemy is external pressure. Killing yourself because you are poor is external pressure. Hanging yourself because you are sick in the body is external pressure. Everyone who kills himself acts under external pressure.
Christianity had theological reasons for condemning suicide, nothing to do with wanting to help the people.
>>243809
I'm not familiar with the story. What I know is that suicide used to be common in the ancient world among actual, existing people. The story of Ajax and his buddies is a myth so probably the creation of some poet ultimately. Many prominent characters of pre-christian Europe killed themselves and yet they were still held in great esteem. Don't pretend that suicide was looked at negatively because of one mythological example.
>Christianity didn't start an "anti-suicide sentiment", it was already there(eg the stoics)
Hah! You mean the same stoics who talked about "quitting the house when it is on fire"? The same stoics who actually committed suicide calmly? You don't know what you are talking about, clearly. Christianity DID start the whole anti-suicide mentality, stop defending this backwards and retarded religion (which was always aimed at equally retarded normals) on an imageboard for outcasts and outsiders. Christianity doesn't have a single positive thing about it.
>Christianity initially attacked "obligatory" suicide
It doesn't matter, because Christianity looks at all kind of suicide as a sin. They even refused to give proper burial for those who killed themselves, like they were some kind of freaks while they buried murderers, robbers and other criminals happily.
>>243811
Sociopathic leaders always existed and will always exist. Anti-suicide has to do with idealism, spiritualism and theology mostly. They didn't only condemn the suicide of the working persons who contributed but even the suicide of the outsiders and useless people. It is not about utility or some scheme in the background, people were genuinely this retarded, that they believed they would go to hell if they killed themselves because a jewish god wouldn't like it. Religion became a tool only after secularization happened, before that as absurd as it may seem people truly believed in it.
It is bad to kill yourself because Judas Iscariot killed himself, that is all.
These people are usually obsessed with buddhism and eastern religions in general. I'm not that familiar with them but with I've read that many of them view negative feelings as a bad thing or something that hinders someone from enlightenment. I hate eastern religions and stoicism too for spreading this "it all depends on how you look at things" bullshit female narrative.
>>243806
Is there anyone who ends his life for other reasons than external pressure? If someone enjoys life then the idea of suicide naturally evades him. Getting cornered in a war and killing yourself because you don't want to be crucified or tortured to death by the enemy is external pressure. Killing yourself because you are poor is external pressure. Hanging yourself because you are sick in the body is external pressure. Everyone who kills himself acts under external pressure.
Christianity had theological reasons for condemning suicide, nothing to do with wanting to help the people.
>>243809
I'm not familiar with the story. What I know is that suicide used to be common in the ancient world among actual, existing people. The story of Ajax and his buddies is a myth so probably the creation of some poet ultimately. Many prominent characters of pre-christian Europe killed themselves and yet they were still held in great esteem. Don't pretend that suicide was looked at negatively because of one mythological example.
>Christianity didn't start an "anti-suicide sentiment", it was already there(eg the stoics)
Hah! You mean the same stoics who talked about "quitting the house when it is on fire"? The same stoics who actually committed suicide calmly? You don't know what you are talking about, clearly. Christianity DID start the whole anti-suicide mentality, stop defending this backwards and retarded religion (which was always aimed at equally retarded normals) on an imageboard for outcasts and outsiders. Christianity doesn't have a single positive thing about it.
>Christianity initially attacked "obligatory" suicide
It doesn't matter, because Christianity looks at all kind of suicide as a sin. They even refused to give proper burial for those who killed themselves, like they were some kind of freaks while they buried murderers, robbers and other criminals happily.
>>243811
Sociopathic leaders always existed and will always exist. Anti-suicide has to do with idealism, spiritualism and theology mostly. They didn't only condemn the suicide of the working persons who contributed but even the suicide of the outsiders and useless people. It is not about utility or some scheme in the background, people were genuinely this retarded, that they believed they would go to hell if they killed themselves because a jewish god wouldn't like it. Religion became a tool only after secularization happened, before that as absurd as it may seem people truly believed in it.
It is bad to kill yourself because Judas Iscariot killed himself, that is all.
>>243801
This actually makes sense. Drop off any normalfag to the most dangerous ghetto in the world and they'll lose their positivity really fast.
This actually makes sense. Drop off any normalfag to the most dangerous ghetto in the world and they'll lose their positivity really fast.
>>243814
Yes, there are people who kill themselves out of pure nihilism and nothing more. And that is different from external pressure.
Yes, there are people who kill themselves out of pure nihilism and nothing more. And that is different from external pressure.
>>243815
That's not surprising. Positivity is a feedback loop that comes from prosperity.
It's just a meme that people are "poor but happy" in places like Latin America or the worst African nations.
Suicide rates are massive, depression is massive, people are enraged and hopeless. Violent crime, coups, murders are considered normal.
There is no happiness for those who can't even get on the first step of Maslow's pyramid. Just constant stress.
Take away a "positive social media influencers" money and put them into the worst favela in Brazil.
They will probably kill themselves after being robbed for what little pennies they managed to accumulate and raped for the 6th time.
Only money can create the foundations of happiness on Earth in a modern society.
Then as enough people near you also have access to enough money to live stress-free, you get to live in a safe society, and you can walk home at 11PM without worrying whether you'll be mugged and murdered or not.
That's not surprising. Positivity is a feedback loop that comes from prosperity.
It's just a meme that people are "poor but happy" in places like Latin America or the worst African nations.
Suicide rates are massive, depression is massive, people are enraged and hopeless. Violent crime, coups, murders are considered normal.
There is no happiness for those who can't even get on the first step of Maslow's pyramid. Just constant stress.
Take away a "positive social media influencers" money and put them into the worst favela in Brazil.
They will probably kill themselves after being robbed for what little pennies they managed to accumulate and raped for the 6th time.
Only money can create the foundations of happiness on Earth in a modern society.
Then as enough people near you also have access to enough money to live stress-free, you get to live in a safe society, and you can walk home at 11PM without worrying whether you'll be mugged and murdered or not.
>>243822
no need to even go to 3rd world countries, go to philly and see how happy the penniless are
they all cope with their penniless reality by huffing glue or any cheap drug they can get their hands on, if they cant they just lay on the pavement until they starve out
no need to even go to 3rd world countries, go to philly and see how happy the penniless are
they all cope with their penniless reality by huffing glue or any cheap drug they can get their hands on, if they cant they just lay on the pavement until they starve out
>>243823
I don't consider the US a first world country, it's a second or third world country with some first world areas, just like a place such as Uzbekistan or Belize.
People are so easily fooled by a few wealthy cities and skyscrapers.
A country where 25% of the population lives in severe poverty or needs food stamps to live is not a developed nation.
Your video only displays what happens in unchecked laissez-faire radical capitalism to those with limited money.
Not even a piece of shit fully communist land like North Korea has areas like that.
I don't consider the US a first world country, it's a second or third world country with some first world areas, just like a place such as Uzbekistan or Belize.
People are so easily fooled by a few wealthy cities and skyscrapers.
A country where 25% of the population lives in severe poverty or needs food stamps to live is not a developed nation.
Your video only displays what happens in unchecked laissez-faire radical capitalism to those with limited money.
Not even a piece of shit fully communist land like North Korea has areas like that.
>>243828
Delaware is somewhere inbetween, this is such a weird place to live in. I'd say second world.
Delaware is somewhere inbetween, this is such a weird place to live in. I'd say second world.
>>243814
>Hah! You mean the same stoics who talked about "quitting the house when it is on fire"? The same stoics who actually committed suicide calmly? You don't know what you are talking about, clearly. Christianity DID start the whole anti-suicide mentality, stop defending this backwards and retarded religion (which was always aimed at equally retarded normals) on an imageboard for outcasts and outsiders. Christianity doesn't have a single positive thing about it.
Stoicism preached not holding on too tightly to the material world. Committing suicide was usually because of some horrible anguish which meant that you (ironically) valued life too much.
If the house is on fire you may as well burn with it if it can't be helped. However, killing yourself because you really want a house was seen as an extremely pathetic and dishonourable act to stoics, and Ajax's suicide over being unable to have Achilles' weapons was a reflection of that.
Also, Stoicism is not what the average normgroid assumes it is from their pop-culture ""literature.""
>Hah! You mean the same stoics who talked about "quitting the house when it is on fire"? The same stoics who actually committed suicide calmly? You don't know what you are talking about, clearly. Christianity DID start the whole anti-suicide mentality, stop defending this backwards and retarded religion (which was always aimed at equally retarded normals) on an imageboard for outcasts and outsiders. Christianity doesn't have a single positive thing about it.
Stoicism preached not holding on too tightly to the material world. Committing suicide was usually because of some horrible anguish which meant that you (ironically) valued life too much.
If the house is on fire you may as well burn with it if it can't be helped. However, killing yourself because you really want a house was seen as an extremely pathetic and dishonourable act to stoics, and Ajax's suicide over being unable to have Achilles' weapons was a reflection of that.
Also, Stoicism is not what the average normgroid assumes it is from their pop-culture ""literature.""
>>243834
I agree with this wizard, stoics would not commit suicide, that would be a clear contradiction.
t. read Meditations
I agree with this wizard, stoics would not commit suicide, that would be a clear contradiction.
t. read Meditations
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>>243804
If you believe telling people to go against their instincts is perverse, telling suicidal people to go against their instincts and NOT kill themselves is also perverse. Some people have little to no survival instinct and have a strong, omnipresent urge to die.
If you believe telling people to go against their instincts is perverse, telling suicidal people to go against their instincts and NOT kill themselves is also perverse. Some people have little to no survival instinct and have a strong, omnipresent urge to die.
>>243847
I don't give a shit about those who genuinely want to die killing themselves (given they remove themselves from all social contact/relationships beforehand or are infirm/elderly) and in fact there isn't much standing in their way from doing it now. What I objected to was a norm of encouraging/pressuring the lower strata of society, the unproductive types who "take up space" and who are by no means necessarily suicidal - to kill themselves so as to control the population/reduce "rat race" style extreme competition.
Telling people NOT to commit suicide is a murky issue, given that most people are not fully isolated units whose important decisions regarding life and death are of no consequence to others. Telling a suicidal person to hang on until an ageing and ailing family member has passed on is very much not perverse - living for the sake of others' while you yourself are suffering is noble.
I don't give a shit about those who genuinely want to die killing themselves (given they remove themselves from all social contact/relationships beforehand or are infirm/elderly) and in fact there isn't much standing in their way from doing it now. What I objected to was a norm of encouraging/pressuring the lower strata of society, the unproductive types who "take up space" and who are by no means necessarily suicidal - to kill themselves so as to control the population/reduce "rat race" style extreme competition.
Telling people NOT to commit suicide is a murky issue, given that most people are not fully isolated units whose important decisions regarding life and death are of no consequence to others. Telling a suicidal person to hang on until an ageing and ailing family member has passed on is very much not perverse - living for the sake of others' while you yourself are suffering is noble.
>>243848
>living and suffering for the sake of others is noble
>dying for the sake of others is perverse
This seems like a double standard to me. Why do you consider the former noble, but the latter perverse?
>living and suffering for the sake of others is noble
>dying for the sake of others is perverse
This seems like a double standard to me. Why do you consider the former noble, but the latter perverse?
>>243816
Except you or anyone else doesn't exist in a bubble, completely separate from the rest of the world and existence. All form of suicide is external pressure. "Pure nihilism" is nothing else but the natural destination of an unhappy life with shattered dreams, hopes and unfulfilled desires. Ideology is only ever the means, not the goal itself. The goal is yourself.
>>243834
Suicide was approved by the stoics, no matter what is your own personal perspective on them. Seneca killed himself, Cato killed himself just for a few example. If you couldn't live the virtous life anymore then suicide was approved by the stoics. Stoic thought revolved around living virtously.
>If the house is on fire you may as well burn with it if it can't be helped.
It is your own personal interpretation of stoicism, not what stoic scholars preached.
>>243838
How is there a contradiction? You people grossly misunderstand cynic and stoic philosophy. It is the ultimate act of askesis to commit suicide. One could argue this is the logical conclusion of stoicism (and buddhism too for that matter). You guys are projecting christianity unto stoicism. The buddhist monk who sets himself on fire and the stoic philosopher who kills himself when "the house is burning" are both acting according to their principles to the end. The idea of stoicism was never to suffer meaninglessly like in christianity.
Except you or anyone else doesn't exist in a bubble, completely separate from the rest of the world and existence. All form of suicide is external pressure. "Pure nihilism" is nothing else but the natural destination of an unhappy life with shattered dreams, hopes and unfulfilled desires. Ideology is only ever the means, not the goal itself. The goal is yourself.
>>243834
Suicide was approved by the stoics, no matter what is your own personal perspective on them. Seneca killed himself, Cato killed himself just for a few example. If you couldn't live the virtous life anymore then suicide was approved by the stoics. Stoic thought revolved around living virtously.
>If the house is on fire you may as well burn with it if it can't be helped.
It is your own personal interpretation of stoicism, not what stoic scholars preached.
>>243838
How is there a contradiction? You people grossly misunderstand cynic and stoic philosophy. It is the ultimate act of askesis to commit suicide. One could argue this is the logical conclusion of stoicism (and buddhism too for that matter). You guys are projecting christianity unto stoicism. The buddhist monk who sets himself on fire and the stoic philosopher who kills himself when "the house is burning" are both acting according to their principles to the end. The idea of stoicism was never to suffer meaninglessly like in christianity.
>>243851
I read Meditations. Do you consider Meditations to be a stoic work? I have read a lot of passages, maybe 100 on the particular topic of ignoring pain. My paraphrasing (in "") is crude but I read a hundred things like
"Pain from external things cannot hurt if you do not allow it to hurt"
"Pain can be of two types, bearable and unbearable. Face the pain with dignity, for if you can bear it then it is irrelevant, if it is unbearable then you have done everything you could"
"If you ever encounter something in life that you cannot ignore, pour heaps of shame on your mind 'to be broken by something as base as this'"
I have read hundreds more on the topic that life is ephemeral, lasting contributions do not matter. (This is the part I remember the most) Quotes like
"Alexander, Ceasar, (some other conquerer), anxious little men in their stuffy courts and halls, to be more like diogenese the cynic"
"See how big the world around you is, and how bigger it must be beyond that, and look to how small you are"
There are however things that do matter, things that are great and good
"Lower beings exist in themselves, a rock, a stream. Higher beings exist for attunement to each other"
"If you ever encounter something in life which is greater and gives more fulfillment then a mind deftly in control of itself, then pursue it to the greatest extent, since it must be a great thing! Other than that a mind in control of itself is the greatest thing there is"
"The worker who does not work towards a genuine, higher goal, may work his whole life and not achieve anything"
So as far as I read it, to be broken by pains to the point where you commit suicide seems a not stoic mindset, since 1) it is shameful to be damaged by worldly pain, 2) life is short and is fleeting, 3) there is much good to try to achieve
Do you agree that this is a valid conclusion based on these (paraphrased) quotes? Have you read any stoic works?
I read Meditations. Do you consider Meditations to be a stoic work? I have read a lot of passages, maybe 100 on the particular topic of ignoring pain. My paraphrasing (in "") is crude but I read a hundred things like
"Pain from external things cannot hurt if you do not allow it to hurt"
"Pain can be of two types, bearable and unbearable. Face the pain with dignity, for if you can bear it then it is irrelevant, if it is unbearable then you have done everything you could"
"If you ever encounter something in life that you cannot ignore, pour heaps of shame on your mind 'to be broken by something as base as this'"
I have read hundreds more on the topic that life is ephemeral, lasting contributions do not matter. (This is the part I remember the most) Quotes like
"Alexander, Ceasar, (some other conquerer), anxious little men in their stuffy courts and halls, to be more like diogenese the cynic"
"See how big the world around you is, and how bigger it must be beyond that, and look to how small you are"
There are however things that do matter, things that are great and good
"Lower beings exist in themselves, a rock, a stream. Higher beings exist for attunement to each other"
"If you ever encounter something in life which is greater and gives more fulfillment then a mind deftly in control of itself, then pursue it to the greatest extent, since it must be a great thing! Other than that a mind in control of itself is the greatest thing there is"
"The worker who does not work towards a genuine, higher goal, may work his whole life and not achieve anything"
So as far as I read it, to be broken by pains to the point where you commit suicide seems a not stoic mindset, since 1) it is shameful to be damaged by worldly pain, 2) life is short and is fleeting, 3) there is much good to try to achieve
Do you agree that this is a valid conclusion based on these (paraphrased) quotes? Have you read any stoic works?
>>243873
btw Meditations are a collection of notes that Aurelius wrote to himself, the book takes the form of many hundreds of quotes conveyed much more deftly than my fumbling lexicon ever could.
btw Meditations are a collection of notes that Aurelius wrote to himself, the book takes the form of many hundreds of quotes conveyed much more deftly than my fumbling lexicon ever could.
>>243873
I read Meditations but don't remember seeing anything that would say suicide is bad.
You have a fundamental flaw in your idea of what stoicism is: you try to see it as a previous form of christianity while stoics and cynics were much more closer to buddhism, if anything. Stoicism is a materialistic thought system, it doesn't encourage living virtously for the sake of some divine after life but says that the reward of virtue is a virtous life here, now, in this world. So suffering is virtous, as long as you suffer for the sake of virtue. But let's say that there comes along a corrupt emperor or corrupt leaders who force you to live unjustly and all that. In this case, suicide is virtous because it helps you escape a life of vice.
Yes, the stoics taught detachment from life. But it wasn't about empty and meaningless suffering for the sake of suffering, the way Christianity teaches us. Stoicism is like a secular form of buddhism, without the reincarnation stuff, karma, and all that.
Comitting suicide in a state of calmness, stoically, without fear and hesitation, for the sake of the right cause is totally acceptable according to stoic thought.
If you want to find something similar to christianity in the ancient world then the closest thing would be platonism or neo-platonism, the stoics actually looked down on christians because christianity was seen as an ideology for the rabble, slaves and succubi while stoicism was popular among the aristocracy and educated persons.
I read Meditations but don't remember seeing anything that would say suicide is bad.
You have a fundamental flaw in your idea of what stoicism is: you try to see it as a previous form of christianity while stoics and cynics were much more closer to buddhism, if anything. Stoicism is a materialistic thought system, it doesn't encourage living virtously for the sake of some divine after life but says that the reward of virtue is a virtous life here, now, in this world. So suffering is virtous, as long as you suffer for the sake of virtue. But let's say that there comes along a corrupt emperor or corrupt leaders who force you to live unjustly and all that. In this case, suicide is virtous because it helps you escape a life of vice.
Yes, the stoics taught detachment from life. But it wasn't about empty and meaningless suffering for the sake of suffering, the way Christianity teaches us. Stoicism is like a secular form of buddhism, without the reincarnation stuff, karma, and all that.
Comitting suicide in a state of calmness, stoically, without fear and hesitation, for the sake of the right cause is totally acceptable according to stoic thought.
If you want to find something similar to christianity in the ancient world then the closest thing would be platonism or neo-platonism, the stoics actually looked down on christians because christianity was seen as an ideology for the rabble, slaves and succubi while stoicism was popular among the aristocracy and educated persons.
>>243879
My posts started here >>243838 I did not argue that stoicism is a kind of pre-christianity. I did not see any passages that mentioned suicide at all in Meditations, but I believe my synthesis still holds. Any kind of contrived circumstances that "force you to live a life of disvirtue" can be ignored. If ignoring this causes your death, then this is death, it is closer to martyrdom than suicide. Socrates died like this, I don't think his death was a suicide.
I remember that we are on /dep/. /dep/ has a big affinity for suicide, here there is a suicide general that max out at 300 posts every two months. By this logic, wizchan should be a meatgrinder where one despairing minds annihilates itself per day. That aint the case, they all merely crave attention, I think there have been only 2 or so suicides posted on this site in the 3 years I have been here. I think you should agree that suicides as defined by /dep/ are contradictory to a stoic mindset.
Stoicism is a decidedly defensive philosophy. It focuses on the negation of pleasure and pain. I've read and internalized the 'defenses against pain', but abjuration from pleasure is something I'm personally having trouble with. Is there any literature you can recommend that can help me break through this mindset?
My posts started here >>243838 I did not argue that stoicism is a kind of pre-christianity. I did not see any passages that mentioned suicide at all in Meditations, but I believe my synthesis still holds. Any kind of contrived circumstances that "force you to live a life of disvirtue" can be ignored. If ignoring this causes your death, then this is death, it is closer to martyrdom than suicide. Socrates died like this, I don't think his death was a suicide.
I remember that we are on /dep/. /dep/ has a big affinity for suicide, here there is a suicide general that max out at 300 posts every two months. By this logic, wizchan should be a meatgrinder where one despairing minds annihilates itself per day. That aint the case, they all merely crave attention, I think there have been only 2 or so suicides posted on this site in the 3 years I have been here. I think you should agree that suicides as defined by /dep/ are contradictory to a stoic mindset.
Stoicism is a decidedly defensive philosophy. It focuses on the negation of pleasure and pain. I've read and internalized the 'defenses against pain', but abjuration from pleasure is something I'm personally having trouble with. Is there any literature you can recommend that can help me break through this mindset?
>>243754
This is it right here. Privileged capable normies who have had opportunities thrown at them who can handle not just surviving but even thriving just cannot fathom how fucked some of us are. The concept of being unable to work most jobs no matter how hard you try is foreign to them. They are incredibly ignorant.
But you know what I get it if I was born into wealth I doubt suicide would ever cross my mind. If I won the lottery I would still remember how bad it all is but I guarantee I would rarely consider it anymore as an option.
This is it right here. Privileged capable normies who have had opportunities thrown at them who can handle not just surviving but even thriving just cannot fathom how fucked some of us are. The concept of being unable to work most jobs no matter how hard you try is foreign to them. They are incredibly ignorant.
But you know what I get it if I was born into wealth I doubt suicide would ever cross my mind. If I won the lottery I would still remember how bad it all is but I guarantee I would rarely consider it anymore as an option.
>>243879
It wasn't suffering for the point of suffering. Tragedies happen and a Stoic takes it all in stride, and when he must die, he dies.
>Comitting suicide in a state of calmness, stoically, without fear and hesitation, for the sake of the right cause is totally acceptable according to stoic thought.
I see your point. There are cases where a man's duty becomes one in which his death is unavoidable, and in that case a Stoic might become an hero. Of course, it would mostly take the form of a certain Senator willingly marching to his absolute and certain death because it is his duty to protect Rome with his life.
It wasn't suffering for the point of suffering. Tragedies happen and a Stoic takes it all in stride, and when he must die, he dies.
>Comitting suicide in a state of calmness, stoically, without fear and hesitation, for the sake of the right cause is totally acceptable according to stoic thought.
I see your point. There are cases where a man's duty becomes one in which his death is unavoidable, and in that case a Stoic might become an hero. Of course, it would mostly take the form of a certain Senator willingly marching to his absolute and certain death because it is his duty to protect Rome with his life.
>>243892
This. I was looking at salaries in India, and a biomedical engineer with a university degree and several years of experience earns 13,990 indian rupees a month (about 160 dollars). Deduct living expenses and you're left with maybe 30 dollars for a month.
There are neets in the west who get 8x that amount just for breathing. Yes expenses are higher in the west, but they can still save up hundreds of euros or dollars a month if they are frugal.
And that is a high end job in India! The vast majority of people don't have a degree and work for less than 10k rupees a month (120 dollars).
The world is such a joke and a birth lottery I no longer have words for it.
This. I was looking at salaries in India, and a biomedical engineer with a university degree and several years of experience earns 13,990 indian rupees a month (about 160 dollars). Deduct living expenses and you're left with maybe 30 dollars for a month.
There are neets in the west who get 8x that amount just for breathing. Yes expenses are higher in the west, but they can still save up hundreds of euros or dollars a month if they are frugal.
And that is a high end job in India! The vast majority of people don't have a degree and work for less than 10k rupees a month (120 dollars).
The world is such a joke and a birth lottery I no longer have words for it.
>>243730
The past two jobs I've had the previous person who was in my position committed suicide. The current job I have, my predecessor was still alive, might have came back, but instead commmitted suicide.
I sometimes wonder if he committed suicide to let me have a job.
The past two jobs I've had the previous person who was in my position committed suicide. The current job I have, my predecessor was still alive, might have came back, but instead commmitted suicide.
I sometimes wonder if he committed suicide to let me have a job.
the only ethically bad suicide I can think of is the suicide of a father
but it's not a big deal either
suicide is ethically good most of the times
but it's not a big deal either
suicide is ethically good most of the times
>>243730
The only ethically bad suicide is that of a parent (male or succubus). From the moment they forcefully spawned offspring into this realm, their lives are no longer their own - they belong to their spawn, as recompense for the crime of forcing them into this abhorrent realm. Suicide is therefore avoiding responsibility for their actions, unless they're so old now that they bring no benefit to their spawn, or worse require more than they can provide. At that point their life is their own once again, to do with as they please.
In all other circumstances the individual can do with his life as he pleases - and if any say otherwise, his only response need be laughter at their foolishness. That is all. No collectivist nonsense required, if you haven't bred then you have no obligations to endure if you do not wish to. Think for yourself and act as you see fit, or shut up and remain a slave.
The only ethically bad suicide is that of a parent (male or succubus). From the moment they forcefully spawned offspring into this realm, their lives are no longer their own - they belong to their spawn, as recompense for the crime of forcing them into this abhorrent realm. Suicide is therefore avoiding responsibility for their actions, unless they're so old now that they bring no benefit to their spawn, or worse require more than they can provide. At that point their life is their own once again, to do with as they please.
In all other circumstances the individual can do with his life as he pleases - and if any say otherwise, his only response need be laughter at their foolishness. That is all. No collectivist nonsense required, if you haven't bred then you have no obligations to endure if you do not wish to. Think for yourself and act as you see fit, or shut up and remain a slave.
>>243730
you're looking at life the wrong way. stop caring what people think. i'm a total outcast too but i step in peoples path, angrily honk at them, and don't put up with normie idiots shit. stop caring about anyone else xcept yourself.
you're looking at life the wrong way. stop caring what people think. i'm a total outcast too but i step in peoples path, angrily honk at them, and don't put up with normie idiots shit. stop caring about anyone else xcept yourself.
>>243768
Yea i've been saying for years family is just useless. they randomly bring you here, and expect you to do all this shit. I still talk with mine because theres no need to make bad blood, but its all pointless.
Yea i've been saying for years family is just useless. they randomly bring you here, and expect you to do all this shit. I still talk with mine because theres no need to make bad blood, but its all pointless.
suicide is blessing for me there is nothing worth it for live in this world humanity always will be garbage and everything is a scam copes are shit i think life is overrated if you are not happy i dont think death is that bad but normies wanted to stay for you to suffer more
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I want to suicide bomb a hospital, best method least pain, fast, 100% effective. I hate nurses and most doctors they exploit big pharma and don't care about suffering.