/dep/ - Depression

Do you live in an area with high concentrations of ethnically Jewish, Anglo-Saxon or Slavic people? These sorts of "people" are soulless and bug-like in both appearance and disposition, so don't feel bad that you can't get along with them.

Humans are pretty terrible. It bothers me as well more than I should let it. This is boring advice, but stoicism works. Just focus on the things you can actually effect. Everything else, you really can't practically justify giving your attention.

>>257683
It's practical advice. Thanks.
>>257684
Yeah, I am.

>>257683
What specifically about stoicism works? I’d appreciate if you could boil it down for me.

>>257693
Not giving a wizard beard dandruff about anything and applying a logical & rational approach, to thinking & acting in matters of everything.
Basically is functioning in a higher level of consciousness, away from the animal impulses*.
Is considering everything around you & inside of you and taking the best approach possible in every situation.
.
*not separating from them, just leaving it in the pockets of your robe for use when the time comes.

This renders you impenetrable and ready to take whatever comes from the outside, with minimal to no impact to yourself, and with experience to take & react the next similar situation in a better fashion according to your objectives.
.
My interpretation.

Yes, this is true. Most people are rude, cruel, petty, spiteful, all that. Actually, makes you think: is it really us who are the asocial or antisocial ones? I feel like normals are way more hostile than people like us can ever be. I am quite talkative and friendly to tell the truth, I don't mind talking with strangers and such but normals are so rude, they either don't give back any kindness or they just ignore you. It's really fucked up, how you are viewed as strange if you just want to be courteous.

>>257768
Nobody is owed kindness or attention. You are NOT special, nor I, or anyone else here. Give up on trying to be special.

>>257769
Nobody is special but common, if i see someone giving me kindness i gave them some kindness back. Ok they might be backstabbers so i give them appreciation with caution.

>>257769
If someone gives you kindness then yes, you owe that person some kindness too. At least that is how non-assholes think.

I am special for numerous reasons, one of them being that I am more polite and kinder than most people. That's not a big feat nowadays when 99% of people are sociopaths.

>>257769
Nobody here is trying to be special. We already know deep down that most people aren't special to begin with. Showing others kindness isn't difficult though, and it's especially easy for normies to do it, so why can't they? You people are always trying to drag everybody else down in your black hole of misery.

>>257769
Why not? Why can't everyone be nice to each other? Why the need for anger and hatred?

>>257797
People like the comfort in having somebody below them in the hierarchy to mock and belittle so they can feel safe in their own position.

>>257673
People are selfish. In their bs normie lives they barely care about their "loved ones", what makes you think they'll give a shit about a random stranger?
Normies enjoy seeing other people suffering because it makes them feel better about their shit meaningless lives. The only thing you can really change is yourself and the perspective in how you see the world around you.

>>257803
What about you? How do you perceive the world around yourself?

>>257797
Because society told us that we can't do that. Because, err, communism is evil and such,y'know! Better to enforce social darwinism and similar narratives onto people, after all why would we need weak and nice people? We need strong soldiers to protect our wom-en and children, and strong working people who can produce and consume like crazy!

Society is interested in raising more and more psychopaths, not civilized or kind people. Why do you think football or sports culture generally is so pushed by mainstream society? Because it is all about fighting and that is what normals love, fight and competition, to prove how alpha they are compared to the betas and losers.

>>257841
…Are Communists civilized and kind people? Lmao.

>>257797

Everyone can't be nice to each other because it's within the genetic code of humanity to be vile pieces of human trash.

I couldn't even be vile or evil if I tried because it's in my genetic code to be nice and caring. It makes me feel good inside when I'm nice to everyone, even if it is to people that exploit others.

I find it hard to judge people, even criminals. I could never be a police officer because I wouldn't want to arrest anyone, put them in jail and label them permanently as defective.

Of course I can trace my genetic lineage back to the countries with the most humane prison system. It's literally within my soul to want to help people no matter what.

>>257843
No, in most of the cases they aren't. But the ideology itself is good. People can rarely live up to great ideals. As far as I'm concerned, it is communism which wants everyone to have the same rights and possibilities, so it is the good system. There is nothing the opposite side can offer to me.

>>257844
Not the genes argument again…You can't fault genes for everything. Some people are assholes because they want to be assholes, that is the story. If it's within the genetic code of humanity to be vile then how come you aren't a cruel person? That would mean everyone would predetermined to be some psychopath. While psychos are the majority there are exceptions.

No, people are shit because the system is shit. It teaches them that it is cool be to be some aggressive moron who crushes everyone weaker in his way. Our culture is shit, period.

>>257841
>after all why would we need weak and nice people
If the 'muh guberrment/corporations!!!' had this belief they would make poison like sn and pentobarbital so easy to get to make the mentally weak and lazy, like me, die easily.

>>257846
Ah so current communists aren't a reflection of "real communism" again.
>it is communism which wants everyone to have the same rights and possibilities
Not true in the slightest. The surface level reading of communism like the Red Books suggest that Communism is a solution to inequality and unfairness, but going deeper you'll find that this is flat out a deception tactic to get emotionally charged naive people on board with surrenduring their rights. Communism demands everyone be brought down to the same level as the lowest performer of the group, by force of disarmament, reeducation, and seizure of property. Not so that it can all be divided equally, but so every commoner has an equal amount of "nothing", while the ruling class claims dominion over the seized property indefinitely.

Even if there was a movement and action was taken to give everyone the same rights and equalize how they're perceived by others in the group, it wouldn't work because people aren't built equal. The failure of demanding the same from everyone has been catastrophic every time it's been put to play. All "equality" does is make everyone equally miserable with no possibility of putting in the brains and brawn to climb out of despair.

>There is nothing the opposite side can offer to me.
A promise that you won't end up in a gulag for falling short on your taxes or being outspoken against something that needs improving in your neighborhood perhaps. Capitalism, globalism, national socialism… None are perfect but if you're a quiet NEET without a Calvinist work ethic, then Communism should be the least of your desires. It is its own religion of deception and you'd be best to see beyond its facade of a work-free utopia.

>>257848
Nice, weak people need to be kept around so the strong can seem even stronger in comparison.

>>257848
Why would they do that? You will die off eventually because you can't sustain yourself in this man eats man world anyway. Killing yourself with poison or dying via homelessness, it doesn't matter to them.

>>257850
When did I talk about current communists? I said they don't live up to the ideology in most cases which is true.

>communism as a deception
That is how it was used in all cases yes, but that doesn't reflect on the ideology itself. Bad people using good ideologies like communism to get rich and oppress others isn't communism. Communism wants to build a world without classes or states, where everyone is equal and free.

Why are you crying so hard about an equal world? Are you rich or something? Because otherwise you are nothing but a cuck, defending a system that doesn't give anything to you or even sucks the blood out of you. You are talking about "surrendering rights" and I have no idea what you are talking about, you mean the right to own multiple islands and luxury items like sport cars and planes or what? I don't get to live with my right anyway in this system either and I'm not interested in that much luxury either. So what? People like me don't have anything to lose, communism exactly targets me.

>it wouldn't work
Yeah yeah. We keep hearing about this in relation to everything good. People were talking about welfare, health care, free education and less working hours tanking the economy hundreds of years before you and guess what? They work just fine. The "wouldn't work :(" argument is generated by the ruling classes, because they want to keep us from seizing power. Though something certainly doesn't work if you never even try or give up easily.

>capitalism, globalism, nat soc
Capitalism doesn't send you anywhere, but it doesn't do anything either to save you if you don't want to be exploited. Want to live a free NEET life? Go die as a beggar, that is the capitalist motto. The welfare state and social security and all that are socialist inventions, by the way. The elite doesn't give these to the people because they want to, they are just afraid of a revolution. Your dear capitalists had no problem with working people 12 hours a day for shit pay in some dark mine and then sending them home to their dumps where they lived. And they would do it nowadays too if they could get away with it.

I don't know what you mean by globalism so I assume you mean neo-liberal capitalism, in which case I can say the same to you.

Nat.soc is anti-NEET, are you unfamiliar with the ideology perhaps? People who didn't want to work were put into concentration camps for being "asocial" in nazi Germany.

I'm not debating that communism was anti-NEET too but the ideology underwent many changes since then and it has many variations and forms. So which one of us is the deluded here, really? You hate on communism because you read in some american textbook as a child that you should do so.

>Calvinist work ethic
Extremely funny, considering it was communism and socialism which eased the burden on the shoulders of workers. Less working hours and more good stuff for the average guy, this line of thought is always the child of communism, no matter where you live.

>>257916
>Your dear capitalists had no problem with working people 12 hours a day for shit pay in some dark mine
you mean offering people a job in a dark mine in exchange for money. if i told you that you could clean sewers and i would pay you 10 cents an hour would you start freaking out about how im exploiting you?

>Communism wants to build a world without classes or states, where everyone is equal and free.
which is great, except you cannot make everyone equal without violence and coercion, which is why communists always end up supporting totalitarian states that massacre everyone. it is impossible to have a world where everyone is equal without violently making it so, never mind the fact that its impossible period. thats really the only issue with communism, that one little blight of equality runs contrary to the otherwise great ideology of freedom. thats why communists will continue to repeat this cycle of death and enslavement at the hands of totalitarian governments.

regardless of whether or not communism has ever been tried, communists have no idea how to build a free stateless society, nevermind the equality part. if they did understand how to do this, it would be immediately obvious to every communist that they in fact DO endorse slavery and violence

>>257916
>Why would they do that? You will die off eventually because you can't sustain yourself in this man eats man world anyway. Killing yourself with poison or dying via homelessness, it doesn't matter to them.
I understand why they dont directly give you poison, it's a waste of money and you will die via homelessness. But why the fuck do the higher ups make stuff like Nembutal, Sodium Nitrite illegal?
If they don't care about the weak and want to see them dead in anyway why do they spend time, money and effort enforcing laws against these poisons, do they want people to die painfully and from outside forces or something?

>>257951
no they dont want anyone to suicide. they want you to work instead. so they will make suicide harder to do.

>>257959
You nailed it. Each suicide is 200k-1m $ lost in tax revenue.

If people, especially those who have any capacity work, suicided in masses, it would devastate elites who need drones to slave away in their companies.

It is also a major net loss to politicians. Imagine how many hundreds of thousands of milk cartons or gallons of gasoline you need to tax just to make up for one work-capable person suiciding.

>>257917
>you mean offering people a job in a dark mine in exchange for money. if i told you that you could clean sewers and i would pay you 10 cents an hour would you start freaking out about how im exploiting you?

Oh, thanks for proving you don't know what is basic empathy, justice or humanity. I guess you wouldn't need to know empathy since you live your little privileged, spoiled life.

Yes, how good these capitalists were! They gave money to their workers, wow. What's more, they gave them enough money…to survive! Oh, wow, that ranks real high on the fair treatment spectrum, these good ol' capitalists with their hearts of gold.
I'm not sure whether you are serious or joking. If you can't see what's wrong with giving people just barely enough to survive and live under utter shit conditions in exchange for dangerous, hard, long working hours then something is wrong with you. You are either delusional or some psychopath.

>violence and slavery
Nice double standard there. So it's not violence when the police locks you up for stealing from rich people in order to feed yourself? Or it's not slavery when you are expected to sell your soul, body and free time to some greedy faggot just because you don't want to die starving on the streets? Your dear system is built around violence and slavery, it is so funny and yet you accuse us of these things when we want to liberate people from these horrible things!

>its impossible period
Classic, better not debate or else you might get proven wrong, right? Again, which one of us is the retarded brainwashed slave who falls for every meme and dogma society tells him?

The only reason anyone should be against revolution is if they are part of the ruling class. I guess you aren't, yet you are defending a system that exploits you. What a cuck.

>>257951
This is for appearances only. To make the cattle believe the rulers are lookin' out for them and want to protect them. If they really cared about weak people then they would support them financially, give them free housing and basic comforts instead of spending tons of money on sending weapons to Ukraine or on building opera houses, luxury hotels or on useless space projects.

>>257959
Yes, that is their main goal, to brainwash you into being another worker drone.

>>257964
>>257959
But what if I dont work and pay very little in taxes?
They are wasting money keeping me alive, if they allow me to purchase 'stuff' legally and cheaply then they would save more money. Without restrictions Nembutal only costs 50 dollars/euros/pounds, with restrictions it costs 1500-3000.
>>257966
>This is for appearances only
This is the most likely explanation, that or they truly want to see people not die via their own hands but by other external factors which would make them suffer since those in powers are utter psycopaths

>>257975
by with restrictions, I mean when it's illegal and you want to buy via the black market/drug markets/etc.

>>257966
>If you can't see what's wrong with giving people just barely enough to survive and live under utter shit conditions in exchange for dangerous, hard, long working hours then something is wrong with you
i see its a shitty deal, however there is nothing MORALLY wrong with it. i dont have to sell or buy anything from anyone, because i am free (didnt you claim to want freedom?). no one is entitled to my property so i do not have to sell it to them at any price. if a homeless man wanted to buy my house and i told him i would only sell it for 1 billion dollars no exploitation has taken place because the homeless man has no claim to my property and i owe nothing to him. you may be tempted to think exploitation has taken place because you think youre entitled to other peoples property, but youre not.

>Nice double standard there
>So it's not violence when the police locks you up for stealing from rich people in order to feed yourself?
yes, believe it or not there IS a double standard when it comes to violence. initiating violence to harm or deprive people of their possessions is immoral, while using violence to defend yourself or others is a right. i actually cant tell if youre joking or trying to troll me with this one. stealing from people is wrong, you arent entitled to other peoples property. if you think you can create a free world where everyone condones theft, good luck.

>Or it's not slavery when you are expected to sell your soul, body and free time to some greedy faggot just because you don't want to die starving on the streets?
no, its not, because slavery is forced, no one is forcing you to get a job. just because you will starve without one does not mean that a person is enslaving you, its the nature of reality that without food you starve, so if you want you could say youre being enslaved by the world, but no employer does you any wrong by offering you a job.

>Classic, better not debate or else you might get proven wrong, right?
ok, lets work through it. you believe people are not equal therefore we need communism to make people equal. this means equality does not exist in the natural world, now lets take a look at communism. during the process of reproduction, people become slightly different from their parents by way of genetic mutation. this means that there exists a difference between people, and therefore people are not equal, necessitated by human life itself. now if you wanted to stop this natural process you would have to infringe on the rights of every living person on the planet, but im sure that means very little to you based on what youve said. unless by "equality" you mean something very specific, in which case this paragraph is useless.

>The only reason anyone should be against revolution is if they are part of the ruling class
im not against revolution im against having another retarded communist revolution. communist revolutions have literally always created murderous totalitarian governments, and from what youre telling me youre just anxious to have another one of those. you have literally NO IDEA why this pattern keeps happening over and over again, but its very simple. you do not know the difference between right action and wrong action, you have shown this clearly. without this critical knowledge you are incapable of generating the free society you say you want (at least i hope you want).

to have a free society then everyone must be free to do what is right, that is what freedom means. if wrongdoing impedes me from doing right then that would make me less free. if the majority of a society does not understand right and wrong, then it is inevitable that wrongdoing will be done against a lot of people, making society less free. if everyone only ever did right then society would be completely free. now we can note a law in place here, the more that a society understands right and wrong, the more free a society is, the less a society understands right and wrong, the more enslaved it becomes.

stealing from and harming other people is wrong, it amounts to the claim that you are the one entitled to do what you want with someone elses body and possessions. being entitled to another persons body or another persons possessions/the fruits of their labor is whats called slavery. slavery is the exact opposite of freedom and that is what wrongdoing manifests. if you want to have a free society you must understand that taking what is not yours is wrong, and that you do not own other people. also know that it is always right to defend yourself against wrongdoing since it does not violate the rights of others. if someone doesnt have the right to attack you, then it is right to repel an attacker.

>>257978
Holy cow, there are people left on the internet who argue against communism? I thought you guys disappeared in the 2010s. Nice to see you back.

But this should probably be in the politics thread by now.

>>257978
Oh hi there, thought you were familiar somehow, we had similar discussions in one of the /pol/ threads on lounge, you are the guy who tries to justify this meatgrinder society and capitalism with morality. You come off as ridiculous now, just like you were ridiculous back then. Because you try to whiteknight for psychopaths and the society run by them. You can't morally justify the shit capitalist society does.

1.) Work isn't slavery
Yes, it is. Even slaves got food, clothing and a place to stay, this isn't different from what wild capitalists dream about, owning their workers like dogs. Your argument is a pile of shit yet again, the system does force us to get jobs and work, you must be deluded if you believe otherwise. It's not direct pressure in capitalism but indirect, so on paper you are free to do nothing but nobody will give you anything then so enjoy starving to death. Capitalism is the most disgusting ideology there is, because it tries to sell itself like some freedom-loving system and what not while enslaving the majority of people. So what is the difference, you aren't sent to gas chambers but instead you will starve to death on the streets, wow how kind capitalism is. Employers exploit workers to increase their own profit and capital, this is how capitalism is run, it is a pyramid scheme.

2.) "Muh freedumbs"
Libertarians and liberals can't comprehend what is freedom and what is just being a plain old asshole. The right to pile up wealth/capital, the right to exploit others, the right to be selfish, these aren't rights, these are immoral things and you people support these things. Freedom is when you are allowed to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt others. True freedom is possible through a totalitarian state first, because that can get rid of destructive forces in a society the most effectively. Once you remove greedy psychos then you can start building a true utopia. What you want isn't freedom, it is exactly to preserve this dog-eat-dog world where the weak are oppressed and taken advantage of.

3.) The sacred cow of private property
Private property is theft, that is all that needs to be said. Under the banner of private property greedy shits pile up most of the world's wealth into their own hands. Did you ever think about it? If George Soros, Donald Trump, Elon Musk and the like had their wealth confiscated and redistributed to the people then millions could NEET for years, millions of starving people could eat for years, millions of homeless people could live in their own houses, etc. Stealing is morally wrong? Tell that to the starving man who steals from a rich guy who doesn't give any money to him. Not stealing in that case would be retarded, stealing from bad people is all right. Stealing from greedy bastards who could help you out but choose not to is your moral duty. Hanging these "people" is our moral duty to humanity.

4.) Equality
People are different yes, obviously? But that doesn't mean necessarily that we should live in hierarchies. You can be different from someone and be equal with them. Nature doesn't have a say in anything we do, humans are above nature and we can do things other animals aren't capable of. If anything, we should build a more anti-nature, artificial society.

5.) Morals
You don't have any right to talk about morals when you only use them to justify why exploiting, enslaving others is good. You are siding with murderers, slavers, oppressors, blood-suckers against the suffering, weak, exploted people. You are so good. Pat yourself on the back. I'm seriously having doubts whether you are even a wizard or not, this kind of bootlicker mentality you display is the most prevalent among normalfags with Stockholm-syndrome and hatred for anyone who is weaker than them.

Short version: stop accusing us of being the aggressors when it is clearly your side which is buttfucking everyone except for the rich.

>>257981
There are plenty of tards like him, where do you live? Capitalism is the default, mainstream normalfag ideology.

>>258025
>we had similar discussions in one of the /pol/ threads on lounge, you are the guy who tries to justify this meatgrinder society and capitalism with morality
i dont think so

>the system does force us to get jobs and work
>It's not direct pressure in capitalism but indirect, so on paper you are free to do nothing but nobody will give you anything then so enjoy starving to death
there is no "system" and there is no "capitalism", what youre referring to are natural laws in place necessitated by this universe itself. capitalism is a description of how people interact economically when they are free to do what they want, the "system" that determines how people act is called the real world, what you hate is the real world and freedom.

the "system" did not force you to get a job. you got hungry and your stomach was hurting so much you decided to go get a job to be able to buy food. not a single human being on the planet coerced you into doing this, and there is no artificial "system" in place to make this so. you, by your own volition, seek out an employer and get a job, slavery is human ownership, your employer does not own you and does not force you to work. you can say youre "forced" to work by the laws of the universe (if youre a retard who cant control your own actions), but that still wouldnt make you a slave because slavery involves OWNERSHIP. in order for something to be owned there needs to be a owner.

>Freedom is when you are allowed to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt others
yes, and when you are starving and someone wont give you food, there is not a single human being on the planet that is hurting you. there are people who could help you stop that pain, but no one has CAUSED you pain.

>True freedom is possible through a totalitarian state
and the true commie finally shines through, what happened to a "free stateless society" lmao? in case you really dont see the psychosis in this statement lets work through it. you believe that in order to end slavery people should be forced under the threat of death/imprisonment to obey the orders of a totalitarian government. so if i own something, i alone can decide how that thing is used, if someone wants to use my shoes they have to ask me first because the shoes are mine. now if i own myself, i alone decide how my body is used, i think how i want to, and i work if i want to, no one else can tell me how to use my body because i own myself. if someone else can tell me how to use my body, then that is a claim of ownership, aka human slavery.

so if you believe a government should be able to force anyone to do anything, you believe in human slavery, you believe that people are not the sole proprietors of themselves. now the hilarity in your statement comes when you say you want a totalitarian government (slavery) in order to end slavery, it looks utterly insane to a regular person.

>Private property is theft, that is all that needs to be said
no, theft is only possible due to the existence of private property, as is all morality. morality is solely based on the ownership of private property; people own their bodies so you arent allowed to damage them, people own property so you arent allowed to take it.

the statement "private property is theft" makes no sense at all because in order for a theft to occur, something needs to rightfully belong to someone. for example, you think rich peoples money rightfully belongs to you, so you think a theft has occured. in this case the "rightful property" of yours is being used without your consent, therefore there has been a theft. if you didnt think that the money belonged to anyone, then you wouldnt think it belonged to yourself and should be rightfully controlled by you.

>that doesn't mean necessarily that we should live in hierarchies
i agree, if hierarchy means "holy/sacred rulership" then it shouldnt exist at all. all rulership is slavery because it is the claim that people can own other people. now if you dont want hierarchies surely you shouldnt want a world where a totalitarian government is allowed to dictate the actions of the peasants (i.e. own them), but i digress.

>You can be different from someone and be equal with them
wrong, if there is a difference, then you are not equal. like in math, in order to find the difference between two numbers you use subtraction, if the numbers arent the same there will be a difference between them as represented by a number that isnt 0. people still have the same rights, but they are not equal (meaning different).

>your entire shitstain of a last paragraph
have i ever endorsed any kind of authority or human ownership? and i dont believe i even talked about murder or blood-sucking.

>>258032
You are not allowed to just pick a place of land and grow your own food. You are in a system. That system violently takes away your ability to sustain yourself alone. You must pay taxes, obey their rules, play their games, pay them - or they imprison you. We are forced to live an unnatural life within this social construction, there is no way to opt out. It is slavery - on any place on the earth ,you literally must have owners that demand payment when you do *almost anything* and won't let you leave or live outside their control

>>258034
yes that is a system that does exist and should be done away with, sorry if i made it seem like i was denying that the majority of humanity lives in a state of slavery. there definitely are systems in place that force people into slavery, although its a bit misleading to characterize them as systems, what were really talking about is how people generally interact with each other. if you dont force me to do anything and i dont force you to do anything then were on our way to a free society, no need to topple some grand system.

>>258032
>there is no "system" and there is no "capitalism", what youre referring to are natural laws in place necessitated by this universe itself.
if capitalism is a state of nature, what competitive market are a herd of bison engaged in? it seems like they are born into a non-economic tribe of other bison

>the "system" did not force you to get a job. you got hungry and your stomach was hurting so much you decided to go get a job to be able to buy food. not a single human being on the planet coerced you into doing this, and there is no artificial "system" in place to make this so.
this is quite unnatural. in nature if you're hungry you go hunt and hit things with big rock

>>258041
>>258041
> what competitive market are a herd of bison engaged in?
food, living space, reproduction

>>258025
If you think capitalism shouldn't exist and hate it so much then just go out there and abolish it already, you faggot, instead of wasting so much time online arguing with other NEETs on what is fair and what isn't, what is natural and not, etc. God, leftfags really are completely harmless to the system.

>>258025
None of the wealth would exist if you redistributed it as the basis for production would be destroyed.

>>258032
>capitalism exists because Muh natural laws Muh universe
lmao what a brainlet, not even /pol/ is this dumb.

>>257846
>But the ideology itself is good. People can rarely live up to great ideals.
So the ideology itself is good even though you recognize it directly conflicts with human nature and is thus unattainable and inevitably leads to immense bloodshed (as efforts to ignore nature always do).

>There is nothing the opposite side can offer to me.
It can offer you reality. This is what humans are like, always have been and always will be. An economic system didn't make humans this way. Since man's fall, his proper position in the universe has been one of misery.

>Marx may win battles, but Malthus will win the war.

>>258032
1.) "No system/no capitalism"
God, you are really trying hard now. If there is no system and no capitalism then what are you even defending now? Capitalism isn't nature you moron, capitalism is money-ism or wealth(of any kind)-ism, nothing more, nothing less. And again, even if it was natural, who said nature is a good thing? You are right that capitalists are animals though, they don't have any empathy or humanity, they only care about themselves. You show yet again you can only think in terms of a dog-eat-dog world. You deny even the possibility of a nicer society than the one we are used to. It's the typical "I don't like communism so it can't be true/can't exist".

If people are left to do what they want then they would most likely rape, murder and destroy everyone/everything. Therefore laws are necessary. Why can't you accept this when it comes to economy? If people are left to do what they want they will exploit each other and eat each other alive so to speak, but to boost this, we have the system even encouraging this kind of behavior.

And yes, the system forces us to get jobs. Again, are you retarded? They could spend money on giving out bux to those who need it, instead they don't. Just because something isn't called slavery it is. Your boss tells you what to do and you will do it if you want to get his money. Otherwise he will fire you. It is slavery, your employer owns you for the time you work there and lots of cases even after work is done, there is usually always some extra work needed because these greedy fucks can't get enough. There is no "law of the universe" you moron, work is the product of a corrupt and inhumane society. And let's see, what about those people born into rich families? They don't have to work all their lives because they inherited nice sums of money, o the "law of the universe" doesn't apply to them it seems, curious…

2.) "yes, and when you are starving and someone wont give you food, there is not a single human being on the planet that is hurting you. there are people who could help you stop that pain, but no one has CAUSED you pain."

When you are burned alive there is nobody who hurts you, it is the fire only which hurts you mate…God, you are really trolling by now. It's not like rich people couldn't help others or the system couldn't help others, they just choose not to do it, which is an objectively immoral and shitty thing to do. Letting someone die of poverty and hunger is real nice according to capitalitst, after all rich people need all that capital to buy more night clubs and luxury trips for themselves. Feeding those who can't eat? Naaah, why would they do that?

3.) Free stateless society
Thanks for proving you don't know the ideology you are arguing against. Communism says that first a state socialism is a must in order to get rid of destructive capitalists, otherwise they would fuck up any kind of communist society. The first phase is state socialism, then the goal is a free and equal society. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire, you have to shoot back or otherwise they will shoot you, a totalitarian state is necessary first to get rid of everyone dangerous to the utopia we are creating.

4.) Private property
It is theft. Via private property the wealth and resources that belong to everyone collectively pile up in the hands of the few. This isn't so hard to grasp, come on.

5.) Equality
People aren't numbers, you fuckface. This is the kind of psychopath capitalist crap that shows you people don't value humans at all. You only see numbers and profit and value everywhere. Get back to the earth. You can be different from someone and yet be equal, it is only in the jungle or in capitalism where everything is about competition and who is better than who. We are all members of the human species and those who don't want to hurt others or exploit others deserve equal shares of possessions and resources.

6.) Authority/human ownership
Yes, you did encourage these things by defending the system. So you are a libertarian I take it, yes? Your world would mean a world where people can enslave others with the help of capitalism, a dog-eat-dog world again. You are playing with words, but slavery is slavery, exploitation is exploitation regardless of what you call it.

7.) Morality based on ownership of private property
How can a moral system be okay when it is built on theft and inequality? It can't and again, please go see a professional doctor because capitalism isn't the law of the universe or God or whatever, only in your demented mind.

>>258043
That isn't market you faggot, stop projecting your half-assed capitalist fantasies onto nature and everything. I could say nature is communist in nature because revolution is a constant thing in it, the animals with nothing given to them take away what they should be given by the herd with force.

>>258051
And get myself locked up, yeah bet you would enjoy that? You are so butthurt about anyone who disagrees with you, capitalists are retarded brainwashed drones.

>>258052
Money should be abolished, we need to redistribute resources eventually among the collective.

>>258063
What is human nature, mr know it all? Because every ideology projects what it wants onto it usually. Capitacucks in this cases project their avarice, greed, selfishness onto human nature and make it the default state. Picking out the bad things and making them universal, nice.
>ignore nature
Not necessarily, some people are suited for a free and equal utopia while most people aren't. So get rid of those who aren't and we have the utopia, simple.

>since man's fall
>This is what humans are like, always have been and always will be.
If you don't agree with it then it can't be, right? Pathetic. Humans are different, some people to help others and share their things, others don't. Not everyone is an asshole like capitalism or even your Bourgeoisie pessimism suggets you. "Everyone is this way, nothing can be changed, life will always suck woo woo" Typical pessimist crybaby.

>>258107
Whatever crab

>>258108
I literally typed in the search engine communist anime succubus and got the first pic. But thanks for proving you don't have any actual arguments.

>>258109
Way to prove that you're an outsider

>Hmm I need something to garnish this textwall I copy+pasted from my text file of pro-communism faggotry, what do virgins like.. Hmm anime succubus (you type "girl"), yes this first result of this character and series I have no idea about looks good.

The green letters means that's (((you))) speaking

>>258043
>food, living space, reproduction
surely baby bison are slow and useless to the herd, so have little market value. if you view the calves as a forward investment, then you may struggle to define what it's an investment towards in economic terms; unless you also quantify the economic value of the continued existence of the herd as simply the space it occupies and food it consumes, which starts to sound like it reduces to absurdity

>>258107
OK but will communism let me sit on my ass and do nothing all day? This is all i care about :DDDDDD

>>258116
Those blinds reminded me of

>>258108
wow, way to make my job of writing walls of text redundant

>>258107
>Capitalism isn't nature you moron, capitalism is money-ism or wealth(of any kind)-ism, nothing more, nothing less
when i say capitalism, im talking about a free market economy, nothing more nothing less. if were not talking about free economic exchange were not talking about capitalism, and if were not talking about economics we certainly cannot be talking about capitalism. when i say there is "no capitalism" i mean that it is not an artificially erected system, people did not sit down and decide the rules of capitalism. people recognize that property exists and there are rightful owners of property, therefore they act in certain ways which we have come to call capitalistic.

"capitalism" is natural because morality is natural. capitalism, meaning free economic exchange, is based on freedom, being free to do what is right. what is right and wrong has never changed throughout the course of history and cannot be altered by any man, it applies to everyone and cannot be escaped, it is a law in the same way gravity is. slavery has never been okay, it has never been okay for certain people to enslave others and no one can ever circumvent the fact that slavery is immoral.

>If people are left to do what they want then they would most likely rape, murder and destroy everyone/everything
yes, im sure you would go around murdering and stealing from everyone but most people are motivated by doing whats right, and most people do not see murder and theft as right. if you were shipwrecked on a deserted island with a hundred other people do you think everyone would start cannibalizing each other or start cooperating with each other? even when law enforcement agents have no way of getting to you people still "refrain" from committing crimes because they want to live in peace. but even in circumstances where people want violence "laws" and law enforcement agents do not need to be present to deter crime, the la riots are a perfect example. when the police were nowhere to be found the koreans took to the rooftops with their guns and just like magic people didnt rob their stores. people live in peace because thats what they want, and they dont want the consequences they would face from violating the peace, this has nothing to do with any "law" a politician writes down halfway across the country.

>Why can't you accept this when it comes to economy?
laws arent useful or necessary when applied outside the economy, and even more retarded when applied to the economy. its easiest to see the flaws in economic government intervention when people are only part way enslaved by the government so it doesnt make sense to go into too much detail here when i know you already all the way endorse forcing other people to do things (human slavery). for example, having a minimum wage causes less poor people to be hired because companies cant afford to hire those people, the poor people stay poor and the companies dont get any labour, everyone is worse off. since you want the companies to just be forced to hire those people i would need to explain that companies dont have infinite amounts of money to hire people and you cant just print more money.

>And yes, the system forces us to get jobs
if you really did not want a job would you be tracked down like a runaway slave and brought back to your workplace? you know, like how actual slavery worked?

>When you are burned alive there is nobody who hurts you, it is the fire only which hurts you mate…God, you are really trolling by now
do you find it amusing to post this kind of retardation on the internet, is it funny to you? you know this kind of reminds me of crab ideology, "not having a gf is pain therefore succubi owe me their affection".

>Communism says that first a state socialism is a must in order to get rid of destructive capitalists
yeah, im aware, however YOU said that you wanted a free stateless society and i believed you, i consider people as individuals and not drones who are programmed to repeat cookie cutter political ideologies.

>It is theft. Via private property the wealth and resources that belong to everyone collectively pile up in the hands of the few.
ok, sure. im not going to treat you like a child and try to pin you down on every single logical statement i made. i dont have the patience to go back and forth with you trying to force you into reading a simple fucking paragraph, not to mention it wouldnt be fair to the other users of this site as it would create spam and wouldnt get us anywhere. grow the fuck up and start pursuing the truth on your own.

>You can be different from someone and yet be equal
equal in what way? i specifically stated people have equal rights and that it is impossible for people themselves to be equal. in what way do you think people are equal (which is synonymous with "same" by the way).

>your last two shitstain points
and thats where i believe this discussion ends, you refuse to understand what private property is and thus cannot understand morality or freedom or slavery or anything else im trying to talk about. it really was refreshing to get the full brunt of the hardcore delusion that is communism.

>>258041
bison cant understand morality and thus cant understand freedom or form a free market (i.e. capitalist society).

>>258123
>what is right and wrong has never changed throughout the course of history and cannot be altered by any man

>it applies to everyone and cannot be escaped, it is a law in the same way gravity is

>no one can ever circumvent the fact that slavery is immoral.

Am I on wizchan?

>>258111
I didn't copy paste what I wrote, how could I when I replied to the other poster? I don't always research what anime some 2D succ is from, most of the time I save the pictures I like simply.

As if that's relevant to what I wrote in any way.

>>258116
Is this supposed to be ironic? In case you don't know you are on wizchan, a place where long-time NEETs are common and wagewizzies too usually want to NEET in the future. If you are serious, then yes, the purpose is to achieve the NEET Utopia where wageslavery doesn't exist.

>>258123
>capitalism is natural and so is morality
Because something is natural that doesn't necessarily mean it is good too. Diseases are natural too yet we make medicine to cure them. There is no reason to worship nature or natural things. That is, IF capitalism is even natural, which could beget more debates…
Morality is exactly anti-nature and ascetic in essence. You confuse legal laws and morality. I don't know what you mean by morality never changed when it clearly underwent big changes with every new era. The morals of a modern man aren't the same as of those who lived in medieval christianity for example or even before in greek and roman world. "slavery has never been okay" Okay, I died of laughter at this one. You don't know your history. Aside from capitalism itself, which enslaves people too, there were other kinds of slavery too, the slavery of blacks, the slavery in roman and greek world, etc. Don't make stuff up on your own when you don't know what you are talking about, kid.

>most people are motivated by doing whats right, and most people do not see murder and theft as right
You must be at least 18 to use this place. In what dimension do you live, my dear friend? Don't answer, probably the one where capitalism is the law of the universe and where God is a capitalist too and even animals live according to capitalism…In our world, the real world most people aren't motivated by doing what is right in any way, they look out for themselves only and for their immediate friends and family at most. You confuse people obeying legal laws with them being moral, the two have no relations to each other usually. People don't kill, don't rape, don't "steal", don't destroy because they are afraid of the police coming after them. They don't do these things because they fear punishment. They choose the safest way because it benefits them, not because they have some sense of moral duty. How deluded you are? People don't want to live in peace, they want to live with the most pleasure they can get their hands on. If the average asshole could get away with it, he would torture others, kill others, rape others for fun. You have an extremely childish view of humanity.
Your example about the ship wreck, the answer is it would depend on the people and the circumstances. Most people would have no problem "throwing others under the bus" as long as it would mean more pleasure for him and he could get away with the act. Most people are assholes, sorry to tell you this. Maybe they wouldn't eat each other but they would certainly exploit each other and wouldn't go out of their way to help each other. But again, it depends on the people and the environment. If that 100 people were all virtous persons with strong morals and empathy then they would help each other. But good people are an extreme minority.
What you say about the riots, it wasn't people's desire to live in peace that prevented a conflict, it was again the fear of someone punishing them, in this case not the police but other people. Violence was prevented by violence, usually that is how the story goes.

>laws arent useful or necessary when applied outside the economy, and even more retarded when applied to the economy
Never go full retard, you are embarassing yourself at this pont. Laws outside of economy can be extremely useful, the police can prevent lots of conflicts and can deal with horrible, sadistic persons the most effectively. (That's another problem entirely that in capitalism cops are used as the thugs of the elite too, to prevent any revolution and similar things) As a libtard I guess your solution would be to arm everyone with head to toe with guns and more guns and eeehh…somehow things would work out, I am sure…No, they wouldn't. This stupid mentality of yours would AGAIN result in the destruction or exploitation of weak people, yes this includes us friendless male virgins too. Do you think in a "free" world like that we wouldn't be the first ones society would get rid of? We are seen as the weird guys, of course they would murder us as soon as they could. Laws are important as long as even one bad person exists in the world.
About economy, yes laws are required there too, because we saw what capitalism is capable of when it is unleashed, see a couple of hundreds of years back in human history. You could enjoy wageslaving for pathetic amounts of money while your boss would hoard up incredible amounts of wealth. But I guess in your deluded dreamworld you would be the one doing the exploitation and not the other way around, right? You are either a psycho or honestly dumb. Minimum wage is one of the best things created ever, it is the only thing preventing employers from working you for shit pay. People aren't kind usually, especially rich people or employers, this is not Wonderland, get back to reality. They would suck the living life out of you (if you were working for them) if they could get away with it.

>if you really did not want a job would you be tracked down like a runaway slave and brought back to your workplace? you know, like how actual slavery worked?
No, I wouldn't. But that doesn't mean it isn't slavery? The system would make sure I would have no means to live the comfy life, it would make sure I would die on the streets. They don't have to track us down and bring us back, because there are numerous people looking for a chance to wageslave…because, well you know, there aren't other options at all. It is all a trap.

>do you find it amusing to post this kind of retardation on the internet, is it funny to you? you know this kind of reminds me of crab ideology, "not having a gf is pain therefore succubi owe me their affection".
Not an argument, I illustrated the point that your argument was shit and then you accuse of me being a crab. Nice.

>yeah, im aware, however YOU said that you wanted a free stateless society and i believed you, i consider people as individuals and not drones who are programmed to repeat cookie cutter political ideologies.
A free stateless society is the end goal, didn't you read what I wrote? There are different levels in achieving communism. Funny you would say that you value individualism yet you are the one shilling for wageslavery and a world where only a few people could be happy. True individualism is only possible through collectivism, otherwise weak individuals will be oppressed by the strong.

>grow the fuck up and start pursuing the truth on your own
That is what I am doing, when will you start? Repeating cliché anti-communist mainstream arguments isn't exactly pursuing the truth on your own.

>equal
Equal, because we are all humans. We are members of the same species, nobody should be treated specially or be allowed to treat others like shit.

>you refuse to understand what private property is and thus cannot understand morality or freedom or slavery or anything else im trying to talk about
You are the one who can't comprehend that private property and anything defending it can't be valid morally. You try to build your worldview on the pillars of freedom and morality yet you are fighting for/defending a world that is immoral and have nothing to do with actual freedom, only the right to be some jerk.

Yeah, bye, go back to /pol/ and ancap sites and continue to masturbate to Ayn Rand.

>>258134
No, you are in the mind of some schizophrenic anarcho-capitalist/libertarian psychopath. Welcome to the mind of the average american I guess, who can only think in terms of might makes right, wageslavery, GUNS and the freedom to exploit others.

>>258144
>You confuse legal laws and morality. I don't know what you mean by morality never changed when it clearly underwent big changes with every new era.
im done, im SO done. ill have to find a communist who is this retarded irl, i cannot believe you are being sincere right now. even after a whole fucking paragraph of an explanation on why laws are unnecessary you somehow have come to the conclusion that i care in the slightest about legality. either youre trolling me and are being completely insincere or youre so mentally disabled all attempts at discussion with you are futile, good day.

>>258158
That is the only way to state that morality never changed through history. You said people always lived by these morals and I pointed out morality isn't a set-in-stone, constant thing but something that changed with cultures and eras. Otherwise it can't be understood what you mean by saying that humanity always lived according to "morals".

Your whole worldview is a mess, boy. I suggest you ditch the whole morality part because it isn't compatible with anarcho-capitalism at all. Good day to you, now that you ran out of "arguments" this is the part where I win. Sayonara.

>>257673
consolation prize: they're all unwittingly just there to help each other

>>258228
Not much of a prize

>>257673

>>257673
>I was thinking maybe the reason why I feel so miserable all the time is actually because everybody else seems so cold, detached, unfeeling. Automatons. Sometimes even passive-aggressive, or antagonistic.

So nobody thinks of you as a 10 year old kid and lets behave like a manchild?

>Maybe I just never grew up, and I could never deal with the fact that "life is unfair" and other people are naturally not going to care about you anymore.

Good analysis, so you know you're an liability

>I can always change myself (little by little I'm trying) but I can never change other people or the world around me. Am I just delusional? Is it all in my head? I can't find any peace.

Other people are changing, you're just last in the line. You'll get the hang of it

>>258730
I think you're reading into things that aren't there.