/dep/ - Depression

You could also start with something small, like taking a bath, cleaning our room, cleaning the table where we eat, washing our clothes, going to buy bread every day, or things like that are a good start. You don't have to sign up for a sport when you can't even get out of bed.
Another issue is that if you already have a job, try to use some money on yourself, mainly in education, learn a useful trade, that can give you both material and personal satisfaction.
Then there is the question of antidepressants, which really can be crap with many side effects, or you get bad psychiatrists, but still and with everything they are a good alternative to get out of the well, but you need a purpose, something to live for and get up day after day, apart from surviving.

>>270607
I didn't know there were people from KC in this place. but the thread is mine

>>270607
Crossposting is based, I basically make all my threads in 2-3 places.

>>270608
Not him, but I've been on kasey for years.

>>270609
I like to create threads to help people, because I believe that the best way to help yourself is to help others. I applied some of the advice and it went well with them, especially with sports and work.

>>270605
Anyone that has had depression for years already know all of these tips.

Exercising, doing something to occupy yourself, have a basic schedule, trying to sleep better, etc.

All of that helps to make you feel a little better but it doesn't cure depression for most of people. You can feel better for a while and then you fall again to the deepest part.

If you can't achieve the basic things that everyone needs to have a normal life and feel good then all of those little things won't make a big difference.

Those basic things are: having a job, having friends, having a girlfriend/casual sex and having a good relationship with your family.

Its all vitamin deficiencies and Microbiome dysfunction. Traumatic/toxic life experiences and stress are inflammatory but generally transient. Additionally most of the site seems to have a secondary illness which complicated things. I'll get back to you

>>270611
One has to find a meaning in life, there are many people with depression in the world, but who have families, or people to support, and they keep going for them. I am not saying that you get married and have children, but you can help your family in some way, or people in need by giving them food, teaching them things, listening to them, that will give you something to live for, apart from increasing your ego by helping others . Apathy is one of the most destructive feelings that can exist, so it must be treated at all costs.

>>270612
I agree, a good diet can contribute a lot.

>The Ultramind solution:
http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=93248CCC7EEC6D04665EF8C2F952635F
this book is written in '08 but zeros in on most of the elements needed for optimal health. Heavy metals detoxing, gut disorders as the primary cause of most illnesses.

>Start out with a 3 day fast.
Drink green tea to reduce hunger and stop headaches. You can also take black coffee to induce autophagy (3 cups max) This will induce autophagy after the first 24 hours and lower inflammation
>Begin the modified GAPS diet for 3 days
Drink only bone broth or gelatin mixed with beef stock if you can't get that. This will strengthen your gut wall if you have leaky gut syndrome
>Try to cut out sugar alcohol drugs and minimize wheat and unfermented dairy product for the duration of your recovery.
>Eat fermented products. Probiotic pills are garbage but prebiotics aren't. Gut is a huge component of mental health

Easymodo depper protocol
St John's wort
450mg twice a day
>works as good as a SSRI
Cod Liver oil from a legit source
2200g or 5000iu a and 800 iu d. Do not take more as you can overdose on vit a
>helps corrects omega 3/6/9 imbalances which cause inflammation
L-tyrosine
1000mg 3x daily
>raises dopamine and elevates mood
Vit D
Take up to 4000iu if you're staying inside all the time or get little sunlight. Not the leddit 10k doses because it calcifies in the body
Ashwaghanda extract
600mg, possibly higher
>you won't have anxiety
Melatonin
3mg
>you need quality sleep
Take NAC at 1800mg dosage for about 20 days (two morning one at night) - powerful antioxidant that will stop OCD and treat most psychiatric disorders. Do not take NAC for longer than a month - potential carcinogen. Drink ample water, preferably filtered. If your dopamine feels weird lower the tyrosine/st John's wort dosages. Generally speaking you should be taking higher dosages of all supplements to see real as opposed to subtle results. If you're still struggling get 5htp

>>270616
a good vitamin B complex with folate-b6-b12 will increase brain myelination and in specialized diets has been found to reveerse MS

>>270616
esta bueno

(respondant is obviously put off by the price online. No, a multivitamin is probably not going to readjust your dopamine and serotonin)

For basic depression: Take St John's wort
For anxiety: Take Ashwagandha
For psychiatric disorders: Take NAC intermittently

death.

>>270629
I'm going to buy it, but I'm embarrassed to go to the grocery store and buy that for depression. What I can do

>>270633
Walk in. by it. Grocery store workers serve a thousand people a day buying everything from huge knives to a cart full of bleach. They're not going to ask, or even think, about you buying some of the many supplements they offer. If they even spare you in particular a grain of thought, it'll be relief that someone is buying small things that don't need to be manually weighed or rung up through the product number.

Furthermore, you shouldn't be embarrassed about being depressed, and you DEFINITELY shouldn't be embarrassed about doing anything that may help to cure or manage it. Walk in with pride that you're taking steps to help yourself out, because most people can't even get that far.

>>270633
It is usually cheaper to just order in online. Many people use bulksupplements. The typical cornerstore often doesn't even have NAC or their prices are jacked up. The best you are going to find is St John's Wort, 5-htp, and L-tyrosine in rare cases

>>270635
also if you are going to be doing this long term get a brand that has tested purity so you know you're getting the real stuff. Wallmart has sold fake supplements, the fish oils are occasionally rancid which is counterproductive, and basically the whole industry is unregulated until something like consumer reports tests it

>>270634
I'm going to try it, if not I'll give it to my father who also has depression. If you know of any herbs to calm my nerves and feel more relaxed, it would be appreciated, I no longer have impulsive reactions, but prevention is better than cure

>>270636
Here there are many pharmacists who work with herbs and natural medicines, there are also many shops selling herbs, teas, etc. I'm going to try, I lose nothing.

>>270637
The primary causes of depression
>gut dysfunction (this is why you have to do GAPS and eat prebiotics)
>food allergies
>poor diet - pro-inflammatory and nutrient deficient
>chronic stress

The Serotonin theory of depression is GARBAGE.You want to 1) raise antioxidant level 2) lower inflammatory diet/lifestyle 3) fix your gut 4) restart neurogenesis, which is deficient in the mentally ill and key to growth

that supplement combo will basically kickstart this process. I have never found meme lifestyle interventions to be as effective because a depper isn't going to want to do hardcore exercise immediately

Exercising improves blood circulation, blood sugar levels, sudden increases in blood sugar can cause depression because the body's response is to release a lot of insulin, depressing the brain, exercise increases the neurotrophic factor that helps against depression and schizophrenia In general, exercise is the greatest health improvement even if you are looking for a routine to do in your room, do not wait for the gym or have a gym at home.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_neurotr%C3%B3fico_derivado_del_cerebro

Fresh air and sunbathing, sunlight improves sleep schedules, generates relaxation, improves appetite and generates vitamin D.

A diet low in sugars or simple carbohydrates, apart from the increase in blood sugar, promotes the growth of candida in the intestine that generates depression or worsens the bacterial flora by feeding bad bacteria or fungi.
Diet with fiber or legumes rich in fiber, less Soy, improves the flora.
Improve sleep schedules, having bad sleep is very harmful mentally.
Create plans or schedules to follow, having a routine improves depression problems by having a purpose or something to focus your mind on.
Keep a diary or follow up weekly to have a better perspective on life.

Form human bonds or have people to talk to in person.

I think you need to begin with the question of why do people in general feel emotions to begin to answer why someone would fall into a perpetual negative emotional state. Emotions are clearly intrinsic instincts not learned although learned experiences can change what triggers the emotions to occur. These instincts evolved over time to prod people towards the actions that have proven to be evolutionarily successful over time. Because people are highly social animals and there is fierce competition between different social groups of people, many of the emotions we feel are actually designed to not simply benefit yourself and improve your own survival, but to benefit the survival of the entire social group. These instincts go hand in hand with developed cultural mores.

Take for example two tribes. One full of selfish brutes with no altruism or concept of self sacrifice, the other the opposite. In battle, the side willing to sacrifice for the greater good would win as the selfish ones scatter and try to save their own hides. Then the entire tribe gets slaughtered and their genes/culture doesn't get passed down. This is why concepts such as altruism and self sacrifice that aren't at first glance beneficial to the survival of the individual actually are because if he wants to reproduce and protect his progeny to adulthood he needs the society to come together as a whole and be able to repel the attacks of other hostile human societies.

The most effective strategy seems have been to have multiple types of people who perform different social roles which is why different people react differently to the same experiences. If you read about the incidents of children who were switched at birth in birth ward it's quite illuminating. The children often have markedly different interests and traits than the rest of their "family" despite being in the same environment which suggests a large genetic component to personality.

I mention this because I've heard a theory for depression that I find plausible that basically states that it's a state that is triggered when someone cannot contribute to society such as when they become injured. When they cannot contribute they will feel bad and just kind of lay around and do nothing until their injury heals, then they go back to work and start feeling good about contributing to the social group and the depression goes away. If their injury is so bad that they can't contribute permanently then they feel so bad that they kill themselves and stop dragging down the rest of the group. Studies show that suicide is more common among the wealthy and I think ironically it's because it's harder to feel as though you're actually contributing something meaningful when your needs are constantly met. It kind of slips you into this state where you're not doing anything because your natural impulses that would prod you towards doing things are not strong enough to get you to do them because they exist at a higher level of abstraction than more fundamental impulses like hunger or thirst or desire for shelter.

So basically I think a large part of triggering the positive emotions you feel as a human has to do with finding a social role that you are suited for and in which you feel you can meaningfully contribute to society. This is why if you ever go into any sort of therapy eventually they will start pushing you to get a job almost as if that is the point of the therapy, which basically, it is. They will try to find you a social role that you may be suited for.

The problem that many wizards face is that society has radically changed over the past few hundred years thanks to the changes brought about by capitalism, fractional reserve banking, and the advancement of technology and industrialization. In short, the social roles that are left out in the world are different from the ones we evolved with over millenia. Manufacturing used to be done at the family level with found or farmed resources. You would go out and shear the sheep and spin the yarn and all the other steps until you had woven a blanket which you would cherish the rest of your life. Now you just go to walmart and stock blankets on a shelf that come from some factory and you can buy a thousand blankets and each one will be shitty and meaningless.

The living of one's life used to actually be done by each individual, but now we are nothing but cogs in an economic machine owned by a small group of wealthy elites who don't work but who claim the lion's share of the productive capacity of society. Options are laid out by these behemoth corporations, we can be this sort of cog or that sort of cog. Each of the steps to become a thing is laid out clearly. At each juncture someone is holding a hoop that you have to jump through and when you land on the other side they hand you a carrot and if you fuck it up they take the carrot away or maybe give you a swat. There is no real danger, only social humiliation and shame to fear, only social feting to be gained.

As technology continues to change society, the number of social roles that can meaningfully stimulate our feel good juices has been shrinking and competition for those roles has been heating up. Hypernorms are obviously gonna win, so let's not even entertain any fantasies of wizards being able to compete. We are mostly stuck with the less satisfying roles living lives of mild suffering so we may choose to simply minimize the suffering by becoming neet, thus triggering a state of low activity which triggers depression. The fundamental problem we are facing is that structural societal changes outside of our control have left us with fewer satisfying social roles to occupy. The only fundamental treatment to that problem is to revolutionize society.

Failing that the best idea I can come up with is to basically try and trick yourself into thinking you're doing something by staying active. Go fishing, take up sports, etc. You need to have goals that you can achieve in a social context and get positive social feedback from. Sorry to say it but basically becoming a normalfag is the cure to depression. Isolation and inactivity are fundamentally not good for depression in my view. I say this as an isolated neet hypocrite of course.

Happiness is a fleeting feeling that comes and goes. It should never be a goal in life since it can never be permantly attained. Suffering is endless, i dont say that as some dramatic thing i say that as a truth. You get hungry, you eat something, later on you get hungry again, and again and again and again. then you die. It never ends.

I don't understand why my comment got deleted. What's the point of this thread? You people think taking multivitamins and ashwashanda cures depression. Go ahead but just for you to know you are not actually depressed. This is common sense that snake oil doesn't cure depression, even fuckin normies know this. Only the small subset of dim-witted wizards would fall for this sort of scam.
I feel this thread is an insult for people who are actually depressed and have real problems

>>270652
It is so. The problem is when you lose meaning in life, and you ask yourself questions like why eat, why get out of bed, why bathe.
Depression is linked to the feeling of apathy, a destructive feeling that prevents you from doing anything.

killing yourself is a cure.

>>270661
No it’s not.

>>270653
>[St. John's wort] known as an effective treatment for mild depression. A study published in The British Medical Journal this week is the first to suggest that it may also be an effective therapy for moderate to severe depression.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/psychiatry/depression/487
>[ashwagandha] WS root and leaf extracts exhibited noteworthy anti-stress and anti-anxiety activity in animal and human studies. WS also improved symptoms of depression and insomnia
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34254920/
>L-Tyrosine
actually I just looked into this one and a double-blind study found no effect on depression. So forget this
>[5-htp] available evidence suggests these substances were better than placebo at alleviating depression
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11869656/
>[omega 3]In the bipolar depression study, 8 of the 10 patients who completed at least 1 month of follow-up achieved a 50% or greater reduction in Hamilton depression (Ham-D) scores within 1 month. No significant side effects were reported in any of the studies.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19499625/
>[NAC] We found that chronic NAC treatment produces antidepressive and antianhedonic-like effects. NAC treatment also reversed CLI-induced anxiety.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31751620/
>[NAC for psychiatric disorders. It alters glutamate levels] Currently NAC has the most evidence of having a beneficial effect as an adjuvant agent in the negative symptoms of schizophrenia, severe autism, depression, and obsessive compulsive and related disorders.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9095537/
>[microbiome and mental health] Between the gut and the brain, there is a bidirectional communication system, termed the gut-brain-axis. Its main player is the vagal nerve, connecting the internal organs to the brain
https://pro.psycom.net/case-reports-expert-insights/major-depressive-disorder-and-the-microbiome
>[fasting] we found that fasting groups had lower anxiety (b = -0.508, p = 0.038), depression levels (b= -0.281, p = 0.012)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34836202/

>>270605
Good thread.
To all anons reading, I know it's the most difficult part of any journey, but it's important to take the first step. That goes for any endeavor you try to undertake. You would be surprised how easy some things become after you get through the beginning stage. Good luck to everyone.

>>270605
I’m sure all of the conventional things and alternative medicine has been or will be mentioned by someone, so I’ll just post little things that help in the immediate sense.
Unless it’s because I actually am getting back in contact with them (which so far has been never), I don’t look up people that I used to know or companies that I used to work at. It’s just hurting yourself. If they’re doing well you’ll compare yourself and feel bad, or worse if they wronged you. If they’re doing poorly or died you’ll still feel bad, even if they wronged you. That last part is the key. Schadenfreude is caustic.

I think it can get so bad that it can no long be cured. It's like digging a hole it starts out shallow and you can still lift your leg over and step out but if you can't stop incessantly digging soon before you realize you loose sight of the sky and your spade is worn out the body is exhausted it get's dark and the cold wet dirt begins to seem like a desirable place to take a eternal rest

>>270673 -> >>270616
The only people who need more than interventions as simple as this are the numerous anons with PD or the chronic pain guy

this crap is not going to cure your depression, depression is caused by a deep dissatisfaction with one's own life due to being stuck in an unfavorable, oppressive environment
at best you're going to "improve" your depression but an improved version of depression is still depression, what's the point in putting in all of this work if you're going to end up feeling terrible anyways? your efforts are effectively futile because when this realization hits you, you're going to give up
depression is like eating shit, if you want to get rid of depression, you want to stop eating shit, not what you're doing right now, which is sprinkling some sugar on top of it and forcing yourself into believing that it's delicious, dealing with the underlying cause is most effective instead of trying to alleviate the effects
from your posts in this thread i can deduce that you're an airheaded normalfaggot who does not consider a workplace for example, to be an unfavorable environment, therefore it is easier for you to eat the shit that's been served to you by this existence and be content with it, you should not be projecting your lack of standards onto the rest of us

>>270679
Fuck off, troll. Who are you trying to impress by telling young depressed men that there is no hope for feeling better?

Depression is as chemical as any other emotion. If a guy is sad to the point where he's incapable of tackling the root of his depression, then feeding his brain and body the chemicals it needs to feel happy at the good things in his life is a solid start.

>>270651
Started off good with trying to understand emotions, but then you got lost in the weeds. While it's true that our environment influences our emotion, we don't need to consider the entirety of society, only the person's immediate surroundings. I believe that emotions depend on one thing only - perception. There could be war and famine on the other side of the world, but if you're not aware of it and connect it to your own well-being, then you're unaffected by it. The modern world unfortunately has brought too much perception, we know what's going on everywhere and the media is incentivized to make you care about everything whether it really concerns you or not.

Supplements and other snake oil really do help with improving mood, not because the fish oil or vitamins directly affect your mood, but because your perception changes. If I take this, I will feel better. Even such magical thinking can help for a little white, because it's not important what's true or real, but how you perceive the world and how it works. It's quite tempting to think, if I only found the right magical substance, I will never feel bad again- a little bit of hope in a seemingly hopeless situation, you will grab at any thread that shows itself to you. The downside is spending 10 bucks, the upside is potentially everything.

Depression is a natural state. Your brain is not broken, it's functioning as it's supposed to. When the situation seems hopeless, you are demotivated, you retreat, heal your wounds, you shrink your area of possibility and potential. Nothing except feeding yourself and low effort activities until you figure what the fuck just happened and how to recover from it. It's simply a state of adaptive defeat.

Chronic depression is brought on by chronic defeat. No one is really in this state 24/7, but it's possible to create cycle(s) of defeat in your daily life that keep bringing you back into the same state. Many of us face difficulties in life and then we might just run out of ideas of how to tackle it and we try to ignore it but it keeps coming back, the same defeat in the same area, and there is nothing in our environment that could push us out of this hole, whether physically or perceptually. There could be things that make you perceive the situation differently, but without success you simply return back. There could be optimal solutions somewhere, but your immediate perception tells you there is nothing, you have nowhere to start, no path that wasn't already treaded and met with defeat. So you anguish and learn to live in such a state regularly, perhaps focus on other areas and try to overcompensate. One doesn't need to a complete failure to be depressed, such situations are rare, it's much more common for a person to have one or two areas in their life that they deem important that they simply cannot tackle and experience regular defeat. For us wizards, this is often social defeat which by itself spreads defeat in other areas. One can hardly tackle the difficulties of academic life if one is unable to take up the role of a student and assimilate themselves in such an environment on a social level.

The solution is simple, one needs to exit the cycle of defeat and find something that works move to one forward. Simple doesn't mean easy, of course. Depression is deeply personal as it concerns personal defeats or of one's family and identity. No one can tell you how to move out of your defeat cycle because they don't know anything about it. Supplements and stereotypical advice is enough to give you a different taste, but they are not solutions, merely hacks that only randomly and blindly shake you until you find yourself in a stable position out of the defeat cycle. Perhaps you take a magical vitamin X and suddenly you feel like you can tackle anything and you happen to succeed in some manner, through luck or faith and you succeed in moving forward. The initial improvement in mood was enough to help you take action, but the vitamin didn't directly cause it or help you succeed. And such strategies unfortunately become less useful once you become aware of the mechanism of how you psyche yourself up. Regardless, nothing except a permanent solution in moving yourself forward will help you get out of a defeat cycle. You can't trick yourself unfortunately. You should focus on the one or two chronic defeat cycles in your life that you KNOW exist and that you are ignoring. Your mood improves once those move forward, or rather you perceive those moving forward.

>>270680
some people on this site are irreconcilably toxic like the animefaggot. You're best just ignoring everything he says since all he does is try to derail things. If you're new to wizchan you probably would have no idea just how scummy the "community" here generally is. There's maybe 1-2 good people on the entire site.

Typical deppers just take the supplement regime here >>270616
will see results. Mood disorders are easily treatable without SSRI's

>>270682
I've been using Wizardchan for 9 years and I'm fully aware of how good and earnest the community is, especially my fellow "animefaggots". I understand there are some bad eggs though; tourists who use phrases like "depper"…

>If you see someone promoting despair, just ignore him. Just let him run around spreading hopelessness uncontested.

And that's how we know that YOU are one of the toxic faggots set on bringing young men down. Eat glass.

>>270680
you're trying to become comfortable with being a slave and may manage to do so but some of us here are incapable of doing so, you are assuming that we are cut from the same cloth while that's not the case, it's impossible for some of us here to work and not be depressed, and frankly, i wouldn't have it any other way, if i wasn't depressed as a wageslave then something would truly be terribly wrong with me
i never said that there is no hope, just that your dudebro science methods of curing depression are laughably moronic and will not be effective on anyone with half a brain, OP is a christard teenager tourist who is telling us that going to a priest out of all fucking people and being a wageslave are good things, he's preaching his bullshit to the wrong people and should should not be on this site

>>270684
Only anon in the entire thread that tells the truth , rest of the posters just tells moronic lies and seems to me they’re either outsiders or tourists.

>>270681
Interesting post wiz.
>You should focus on the one or two chronic defeat cycles in your life that you KNOW exist and that you are ignoring.
>it's much more common for a person to have one or two areas in their life that they deem important that they simply cannot tackle and experience regular defeat.

These two points are exactly what I struggle with. I am in my mid 20s and have been applying for my masters with no avail. With my current degree I don't have much prospects other than working at a call center or as a teacher for very low salary. (which are not terrible jobs but I think I'd do well with my masters).
What advice would you give me wiz. I'm stuck in a limbo where I'm literally crushed by the chronic defeat cycle, but other alterntives seem depressing as well.

>>270692
Hard to give you advice since I don't know your situation. Identifying a defeat cycle is good, but it won't tell you how to get out of it. There are alternatives and many paths you can take, but you're either not seeing them or you're discounting them from your current position as they seem implausible or difficult. If you're used to an academic environment, the thought of getting a job and all the novelty and various challenges that might arise immediately make you recoil and go back to doing more of the same. I suspect your master's degree is just another way to gain time and it's probably not the only path that you could take. All the things that seems impossible or too difficult right now, could change with the right kind of experience. A lot of people say "I never thought I'd be doing X a couple years ago…"

In terms of practical advice: A good way to salvage a non-marketable degree is to combine it with another skillset, so that you get something that's better than each on its own. Some people with a history degree might combine it with video editing and start making content on YouTube. Your degree in French might be combined with web design so that you can create a paid course online and advertise yourself as a tutor. Think about what skill you could combine with your current knowledge that would create opportunities for you.

In general, changing your environment and habits will help change how you perceive things. Your goal should be, how do I make things seem possible and plausible because this is what ultimately opens up paths for you before you even take action.

>>270611
Having a normal life is impossible now i have fallen so deep that i cant feel love or any feeling except pain amd suffering at this point only cure for my neverending depression is blowing my brains out.

>>270684
>you're trying to become comfortable with being a slave
I'm comfortable being a man who overcame crippling depression who can do what he wants without mental turmoil hindering me. I'm telling OP and everyone that they can do the same. Nothing in my post prompted anything about "slavery" so I shouldn't even entertain that part of your post. If wageslavery is the root of OP's depression, then he can tackle the problem head-on by either quitting his job or finding a new one. If he's too beaten down to find motivation to get his foot in the door towards a better life, then a basic health regime and over-the-counter suppplements and stimulants which encourage positive brain activity are a good start. That's what I, and many other guys, are suggesting based on experience and research.

Your only counter argument is something like
>Um no I'm depressed, always will be, so OP always will be too. Anyone suggesting OP can be happy again is a larper trollcuck spouting broscience
And it's doing a good job making this board a hostile place. Wizchan isn't an echo chamber; we don't all have to have the same emotions and feelings in order to talk. The whole point of the thread is to suggest potential ways out of a depressive spiral. Naturally those who overcame depression are going to explain how they did it. If you want the thread to be full of people saying "Yeah I'm just as depressed too, oh well" then go to a circlejerk site for that. What you're doing now is no different than trying to convince a happy person that he should actually be sad because misery loves company and it bothers you to lose a depressed brother-in-arms. Emotional terrorism. There's a special place in the airport waiting terminal for people like you.

>>270704
>The whole point of the thread is to suggest potential ways out of a depressive spiral.
We don't oppose this and in fact the other anon gave me pretty good insight, however you are peddling snake oil bullshit which is the last thing people who actually live torturous lives here want to hear. Expect more justly or unjustly hostile responses, just my 2 cents.

>>270705
Keeping a balanced nutrition, especially ensuring adequate vitamin supplies that the brain needs in order to function, is not "snake oil" for mental clarity. Denying so pushes in to some theistic believe territory of emotions being tied to an intangible soul instead of brain chemicals.

>>270711
You really think people get depressed because they didn't eat the right kind of fruit that month? Human race is pretty pathetic if that's the case.

>>270711
I posted my suggested plan on 4 a few times. One guy suggested I was "poisoning" people by telling them to take st john's wort/ashwagandha etc, wouldn't elaborate. Another guy (ray peat fan, lel) said I was gonna cause electrolyte imbalances for telling people to drink water. Pretty funny all around. I think there might be better plans if I spend some time googling bbut everything on there is within recommended dosages and used for this sort of thing

>>270712
>Inflammatory diet deficient in important nutrients
>sedentary lifestyle
>stress
>poor gut microbiome
Primes people for mood disorders. Diet and supplement interventions are cheap and effective. We aren't living in evolutionarily adapted environments anymore

>>270679
There are many reasons why one can be depressed, but one of the most important characteristics is apathy, and emptiness. You can have it all, a nice house, a good family, a good job, real reasons to live, and still be depressed, since everything generates dissatisfaction, that's why even though I don't like antidepressants very much for all intents and purposes side effects they may have can help a lot.
Then there is the question, as you say, of living in a shitty environment, but that does not necessarily have to cause depression, it can contribute, but it is not really something decisive, since even so you can have purposes in life, and want to to improve.

>>270605

>you first have to work your body, since a healthy body is a healthy mind

Im trying, but the doctors took my gallbladder 2 years ago, and now i have diahrrea attacks every week. This shit is killing me. Every time i have an attack it makes me physically week. I just cant do the rest of my rutine.

>>270724
that doesn't sound normal. Have you at least had a followup consultation?

>>270721
>Primes people for mood disorders.

Or is it the other way around? Depressed people are less likely to put in effort to exercise and prefer to eat low effort tasty food (so-called "junk" food). If you're constipated and have digestive issues, then yeah, diet is probably worth looking into, but if a lack of fish oil caused suicidal thoughts, I'm not sure how we even survived as a species. Every time it rained, one of our ancestors jumped off a cliff probably. So much for evolution!

>Diet and supplement interventions are cheap and effective.

It's just another market of suckers that are looking for a magic pill. Nutrition is barely a science and every 50 years they flip the food pyramid saying now you should eat less bread. Every year they flip flop on whether one egg a day causes cancer or cures dementia or makes you more likely to vote Republican.

>>270729

No. I still didnt go to the gi, because i dont have social secure in my country. I have to wait for public hospital to give me a turn.

>>270734
I'm sure that kind of sophistry is really compelling on reddit.

>>270745
Go shill HerbaLife somewhere else faggot.

>>270755
>this many mental gymnastics
Lol.

>>270755
Nihilistic thoughts can be destructive for anyone, although somehow you can take it for an optimistic side and think "I don't care if I fail and people see me as a failure, we are all going to die and nobody will remember anything"

>>270753
Even a cursory browse of pubmed on all the substances found they work >>270665. If I am curt on this subject it is because I have zero interest in the low-information bickering adlib that dominates most site discussions.

>It may be there are many “depressions,” not just one generic “depression.” These “depressions” may be the result of a multitude of causes: folate, B6, or B12 deficiency; low thyroid function; “brain allergies”* to foods; an autoimmune† response to gluten that inflames the brain; mercury poisoning; abnormal proteins called gluteo- or caseomorphins from poorly digested food that alter brain chemistry; brain inflammation from a hidden infection; blood-sugar imbalances; low testosterone or other sex hormones; a deficiency of omega-3 fats; or adrenal-gland dysfunction from excessive stress among many other possible causes.

Ultramind's take on it, one of the more comprehensive biological treatments of possible causes besides the meme hormones stuff. Seems pretty common sense that the predictive factor in modern meme rates of depression are lifestyle/diet dysfunction. I'm not saying this is the magic bullet for users with a PD/medical complication or troubled family life but it'll help.
…
Gut:
>Yet another was a succubus who found herself free of lifelong depression after a course of antibiotics (metronidazole) we used to clear out bad bacteria from her gut.
>bacterial mischief in the small intestine (from bacteria that migrate up from the large intestine into a normally sterile territory) triggers an immune and nervous system response that sends messages back to the brain, which lead to insomnia,5“sickness behavior,” anxiety, depression,6 and impaired cognitive function.7The gut immune system “speaks” to the brain, sending messages of inflammation, which increases levels of CRF (corticotropin releasing factor) in the hypothalamus (which, in turn, increases stress hormones like cortisol),8and changes neurotransmitter levels.9
>vagus nerve

>>270760
>okay, so there's this site where we don't discuss sexual history of relationships
>I'm better than you guys because I broke the code!
delete.

>>270763
you can't reason with normalfaggots sadly

>>270760
Over time I learned not to take problems too seriously, or rather I see them in a colder, more objective, and calculating way.

>>270671
God bless you brother

>>270763
Yeah, sexual history here is kept on the down low.

>>270808
sex is not necessary

>>270694
There's no alternatives I think, my degree is in the medical sphere and without masters(residency) it's as useless as a liberal arts degree. Luckily I'm not american so I'm not in debt.

>>270808
I can go to mainstream 4chan boards and get less mental illness and sex fixation than this site. Telling really

>>270816
That place sucks, you can never post anything because of the capchas it has

>>270814
you are doctor?

>>270818
I have an MD yes but can't get into residency. (I'm not that smart the requirements to be a doctor in my shithole isn't that high) yet i still can't do it

>>270614
Yeah I agree with all of that. I try to help my family and friends in everything I can. That's the minimum I should do to thank them. I'm also thinking about doing some volunteer activities to keep me occupied and to make me feel like I'm doing some work.

>>270699
I have lived many years thinking like that but then I changed my way of thinking. Who cares if I'm a loser and I don't get this or that?, just live your life enjoying the things you like and don't think in anything more. We aren't that important anyways. And for me killing myself is stupid because I'm going to die anyways so until that happens I will enjoy my time the most I can.

>>270855
Curiously, this thread attracted many people with friends, and with a partner, I really don't know what they are doing here.

Although many times depression is a lot about apathy, an empty feeling in which nothing or nobody matters to you, where what made you happy no longer has any importance, so there is a very high barrier to entry in saying " Why am I going to do a sport if I don't enjoy it and just end up getting married more than before?" or or things like that. The thread is fine and has good advice, but it remains to get out of that vegetative state where you don't want to do anything, but it only remains up to you to try to be strong and face reality by doing shit you don't like just so that you can solve that kind of problem.

Anon says this worked. He was taking two a day and worked up to 3
>https://www.pureformulas.com/happiness-450-mg-90-vegicaps-by-dr-morses-cellular-botanicals.html

>>270650
hahahaha

Before you cure "depression" you should probably define it. The way people talk about it in this thread, it seems like it's just tiredness and fatigue and getting bored with your hobbies. For all I know, the right kind of protein shake and good day at the gym might really cure your "depression".

>>271021
Depression is mainly a feeling of apathy, where you lose interest in the things you used to like to do, sometimes there is also a feeling of emptiness. Other times people with depression feel that they are useless, that they are a failure, or things like that. Then there are the physical factors, such as tiredness, fatigue, not being able to sleep well, etc.

>>271021
Regular workout (for more than a year) did fix my *physical* depression but not the mental aspect of it.

I no longer have brain fog, crying or constant feelings of hopelessness.

But I still have anhedonia and feel no joy about anything.
I still feel like life is meaningless and my hobbies, interests etc. all have become meaningless as well.

>>271029
I only have the physical part of the depression, I feel tired all the time, but the truth is that I think it's just because I don't do physical activity.

Apathy can be treated with drugs, or according to the anons of this thread with "herb a san juan".

>>271021
it's a box category for people who feel shitty enough to go to a doc who then pathologize symptoms.

>Depper syndrome:
>Isn't the product of runaway Inflammation
>Isn't a maladaptive hormonal feedback loop
>Isn't microbiome dysbiosis interfacing with the vagus nerve
>Isn't a product of vitamin/nutritional deficiencies
>isn't caused by subclinical toxin and heavy metal exposure
>can't easily be cured by cheap supplement/lifestyle interventions once toxic relationships are removed
>the deppers really believe this
laughingjokersmokingnicotine.png

My problem is that my depression makes it hard to implement any changes. 5 years ago I wanted to start supplementing vitamins and change my diet but I got a headache from trying to figure out what vitamins to supplement and in what dosages and form.

It's so exhausting to find the truth when everyone has a different opinion and there are conflict of interest everywhere and I don't have the scientific knowledge to interpret a research paper. And you can't just trust the supplement company to not try screw you over with low quality product.

The safest is to just make a wide variety of fresh meals with vegetables but I have only enough drive to heat up a premade meal nowadays.

How do I crawl out of this hole with no energy? I was hoping that antidepressants would give me this energy boost so I could start healthy habits but the entry-level ones I tried did nothing and I was too scared of the side-effects to try out more.

>>271054
just do >>270665 for a month. Has dosages. You don't have to change your diet even though you should cut out sugar. The moment you start to fast your mood/inflammation will go out the window. You're doing literally nothing different than before except choosing not to eat

>>271056
Ive tried all those supplements, are you financially benfitted selling these products?
>try my snake oil cure your depression

>>271058
how long and at what dosage and did you do it all at once
>st john's wort
>aswagandha
>Omega 3's
>NAC
>vit D
>max dosage
>start with a 3 day fast followed by 3 days bone broth
Yeah I don't think you did.

>>271060
My mom has always pushed neutraceuticals, believe what you want.

I didnt take a log of my supplements, but they are freely available to me and I have taken all listed aside from fasting. Frankly, most of those I dont need to take due to aa healthy diet. NAC, St Johns are exception to vitamin, but neither helped me.

Dont act like this is some hidden secret. Ive been trying to cure myself for likely longer than whatever stack you take, you dont have answers for me, if you even have answers for yourself.

Of what you suggest and otherwise the best mood lift for me personally is a B12 complex, a cycling 5HTP, caffiene, theanine, and or a racetam to replace caff/theanine.

>>271063
I have already posted links showing these supplements improve mood and lower depression. Most people in my experience take dosages of supps too low or for too short a period to see results. Most deppers don't eat a health diet and it's much easier to take the shortcut.

I am not going to pretend my short list is the definitive guide but you will see results following it and all you need to do is pay a small sum of money
>>271046

>>271054
Start with simple things, that will help a lot. Get up, make your bed, take a bath, clean your room, and so every day, create small habits, that can help a lot. You can also create the habit of reading things about something specific that you like and that you can then work on, such as carpentry, blacksmithing, mechanics, etc., it can help you a lot since it will keep your mind busy.

It is important that you create habits, and start from minor to major, but trying to be constant. Constancy is the key to everything. Finish what you start.

platitudes

>>271064
How about if I take a vitamin complex and take double the dose? Can that make up for not taking specific vitamins?

>>271067
I doubt you would get anything out of a MV. The dosages are low even if you triple them, and you are getting most nutrients at sufficient levels anyways. Most studies on MV's show they are useless.


For general health common deficiencies/problem areas I know of are:
>Vit D
>Iodine
>Iron
>Vit K2
For depression we are talking about runaway inflammation, microbiome issues, lack of neurogenesis, and possibly hormonal problems. So I suggest taking supps that reduce inflammation, working on your gut, and increasing dopamine and neurogenesis. Omega 3's, prebiotics and maybe probiotics if your gut lining is fixed, St John's wort for both dopamine and neurogenesis plus a few common vitamin deficiencies is alright. The bigger steps are cutting out sugar and reducing all grain product consumption- common sources of chronic inflammation and encourages bad gut microbiome.

If you want to round out your diet for most deficiencies eat organ meat and load up on eggs. Liver and beef heart are usually cheap and will have most of what you need. Eggs seem to have tons of good stuff. The health gurus love b-vitamins and suggest 3 cups of greens a day basically although a b-complex might help like the other guy is saying.

>>271069
oh and I forgot high antioxidant intake since this is essential for reversing the inflammatory and other issues that are driving the runaway train. NAC can stop that one cold

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_antidepressants

A list of medications that treats depression

>>271071
I take citalopran and oralzapine to have a combined effect. They helped me sleep, but oralzapine has a fairly prominent weight gain effect, and with citalopran I ejaculated much less.
Before I could get a little obsessed with some topics like business, or things like that, and I only talked about that, but since I took that I don't focus so much anymore. The truth is, I don't think I have depression, but according to my shrink, fatigue is a clear symptom.

>>271069
>>271070
So to summarize, would I have to buy vitamin b12, vitamin d, Iodine, and Iron?
I also usually have anger problems, and I take medication for that, I read this post and I really don't know, what do you think?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anger/comments/m67v0d/your_anger_may_be_caused_by_a_magnesium/

>>271071
also gives you erectile dysfunction long term and fucks up your microbiome along with many other dubious things. About as effective as St John's wort. Also nobody is exactly sure why these things work since it clearly has nothing to do with serotonin which is their main focus. Thanks so much Doctor NPCberg
>Antidepressants and therapy are for succubi who self-diagnose because the tv set gaslit them into believing they have it

>>271073
Those are just common vitamin deficiencies not necessarily for mood disorders. I supp vit D and Iodine. Everybody has omega 6 imbalances so Cod liver oil is a very solid recc if the sourcing is good. You can get b12 and iron from meat so I don't see the need. If you are going to take b-vitamins take a b-complex with b1 b9 b12 and folate since these all work together for to produce Myelin in the brain (see vid, this is the doc who cured her ms with b-vitamins).

Any depression treatment that is going to work should include Antioxidants and compounds that induce neurogenesis. If you're cheap drink green tea and take turmeric shots of about a tablespoon mixed with black pepper and olive oil (to maximize uptake and ensure your body is actually taking it through the fat). Obviously basic exercise is a cheap option as well (just do brisk nightwalks and squats/pushups near your keyboard)

Magnesium is one a lot of people recc and seems to be handy. try /r/nootropics, /r/biohackers, and /r/supplements if you're using reddit. I usually just google around on 4plebs.org/pol using keywords related to the topic until I find a dozen hits on people saying what worked for them.

My depression is too powerful normalfag medication is assimilated

>>271077
Thank you very much for the information anon, it is really appreciated, I hope these days I can buy them.

And do you happen to know if there is any kind of herb against impulsivity or herbs that help me sleep?

>>271077
Well, then listen to upbeat music, and watch upbeat and upbeat media.

>>271079
if you have impulse issues take NAC. 1200-1800mg's and leddit seems to cycle it on/off once a week every 1-2 weeks. Works for OCD and getting off substances as well apparently.

Sleeping take L-Tryptophan. I got proscribed this one time for insomnia and had the most vivid dreams I've ever had in my entire life. I'd wake up in the morning and be able to write down verbatmin the entire story with almost perfect clarity. Typical sedative addons for relaxation are lavender and valerian. Obviously you can take melatonin but rumor mill is you shouldn't go long term on it (unless you're old ofc, in which case take your fill)

>>271081
Thank you, pal, God bless you

fyi MDDfag you can buy transcranial direct current homemade kits off ebay for under 50 bux. One of the more promising options for treatment resistant depression although I'm not up to date on the latest
https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=transcranial+direct+current&_sacat=0

tried anti depressants and they made me a zombie and gave me ED (which still lasts to this day) so i stopped. fixed my diet and started exercising and i was still depressed. then i bought a bunch of supplements like ashwagandha and shit and i didn't feel a difference. if i could feel things i would be pissed that i wasted a bunch of money on supplements.

dont really know what to do now. any ideas? maybe i will get my test checked. maybe im low t.

>>271085
what exactly did you take and did you take high dosage?
A common one is the thyroid. Iodine etc

>>271085
There are many antidepressant drugs on the market, including some natural herbs. You could go to a pharmacist who sells natural remedies and tell him your problem, you could also change your psychiatrist. I changed psychiatrist 4 times until I found a good one, if you see that the drug doesn't work you have to change it.

>>271096
I don't think that some plants are going to work with people in this thread that are extremely depressed. Those plants are for normal people that feel a little bad for some weeks but not for extremely depressed people that struggle to get out of bed.

>>271185
There are very powerful drugs out there.

I'm treating my depression with sexual transmutation, easier if you're wizard already inclined to a hermit and loner life and not a crab who wants to have sex.
Sexual transmutation is the alchemical practice of channeling and directing your sexual energy into a 'higher' purpose. As one of the most powerful energies in existence, our sexual energy can be directed towards achieving goals, manifesting dreams, and experiencing deeper states of consciousness

>>271193
Capo

>>270607
>>270609
Shit, I posted this thread on literally 8 different image boards, and this was the last place I expected to get any positive responses. I guess I underestimated you wizards.

Thank you all for participating in my thread, and remember that no matter how dark everything seems to be, there will always be a light at the end of the tunnel. Never give up, never give up, if you fall get up, because you are a man who, although sometimes he may have moments of vulnerability like everyone else, deep down we both know that you are strong.

>>271185
Meet the poppy plant

>>270711
And yet people like you are no where to be found or make the constant excuse of "Not trying enough" when it doesn't work. Fuck you, and fuck
>>270616 Normie tiered advice only works for normies. Sorry but "Hurrrr just be yourself" isn't going to work. I don't wallow in self pity but the kind of pain many people feel here is esoteric. And thus that advice needs to be proportionate as such.

I stopped eating bread and it cured my depression.

>>271334
the bread tastes good

>>271334
>t. Perlmutter
He claims to have reversed dep in patients doing this. Argument is basically insulin resistance and most people being influenced by gluten despite not being celiac. Little skeptical as well but the general argument about sugar/grain products is legit

b

If depression comes along with constant fatigue and bad emotional memory and brainfog… It is a lympathic clog within the head. It is physical and not solved by meds nor therapy.

It is warp.