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For discussing software and hardware minimalism.
>What is computing minimalism?
http://www.linfo.org/unix_philosophy.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalism_(computing)
>Why software minimalism?
- Fewer bugs
- Better performance
- Lower memory footprint
- Better maintainability
- Higher scalability
- Longer software lifetime
- Smaller attack surface
>List of minimal OSes and distros
>Obscure minimal
Plan 9, FreeDOS, Minix3, Genode
>Meme minimal
Crux, Void, GuixSD, FreeBSD, SourceMage
>Autistic minimal
Gentoo, Alpine, OpenBSD, LFS
>Most sane minimal
Arch Linux, Debian (netinst)
>Useful links
Suckless: https://suckless.org/rocks
Cat-v.org: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/
Window Managers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_window_managers
Without Systemd: http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd
Alternatives to Bloatware: https://github.com/mayfrost/guides/blob/master/ALTERNATIVES.md
>Website development
http://werc.cat-v.org/
https://learnbchs.org/
http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tefielQeHZY
Minimalism is not a lack of something. It's simply the perfect amount of something.
>What is computing minimalism?
http://www.linfo.org/unix_philosophy.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalism_(computing)
>Why software minimalism?
- Fewer bugs
- Better performance
- Lower memory footprint
- Better maintainability
- Higher scalability
- Longer software lifetime
- Smaller attack surface
>List of minimal OSes and distros
>Obscure minimal
Plan 9, FreeDOS, Minix3, Genode
>Meme minimal
Crux, Void, GuixSD, FreeBSD, SourceMage
>Autistic minimal
Gentoo, Alpine, OpenBSD, LFS
>Most sane minimal
Arch Linux, Debian (netinst)
>Useful links
Suckless: https://suckless.org/rocks
Cat-v.org: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/
Window Managers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_window_managers
Without Systemd: http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd
Alternatives to Bloatware: https://github.com/mayfrost/guides/blob/master/ALTERNATIVES.md
>Website development
http://werc.cat-v.org/
https://learnbchs.org/
http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tefielQeHZY
Minimalism is not a lack of something. It's simply the perfect amount of something.
>Minimalism General
>About a extremely specific topic (computing)
I don't think you know how generals work.
>About a extremely specific topic (computing)
I don't think you know how generals work.
i've been using Guix for some time and went back to Debian. there are binary packages in GuixSD but i had to add a dependency on a package and had to compile lots of things and it all was built already in Debian.
so minimal does not always mean less bugs. as in my case when i had to rebuild the system with something that was not tested. although you can rollback the whole system in GuixSD.
i use stumpwm. it is tiled wm, too. you can interface with it using a simple language - lisp. it is easier compared to a language like C where you have to compile-restart. for example, you can make weather reporting or a dropdown menu. sadly it does not support utf (freetype) out of the box, so i see rectangles in the window-list instead of non-latin.
it has emacs-like keybindings by default.
not sure, may be it is the lisp implementation i'm using, but sometimes, when IO is loaded it will not respond to actions and an error shows up.
i do not like debian package management.
the packages are split into bin/lib, dev. when you install a package it will install dependencies. after years of use, you lost in what packages you've installed and what packages are dependencies and what you no longer use.
in guix you can list the packages you installed without their dependencies.
so minimal does not always mean less bugs. as in my case when i had to rebuild the system with something that was not tested. although you can rollback the whole system in GuixSD.
i use stumpwm. it is tiled wm, too. you can interface with it using a simple language - lisp. it is easier compared to a language like C where you have to compile-restart. for example, you can make weather reporting or a dropdown menu. sadly it does not support utf (freetype) out of the box, so i see rectangles in the window-list instead of non-latin.
it has emacs-like keybindings by default.
not sure, may be it is the lisp implementation i'm using, but sometimes, when IO is loaded it will not respond to actions and an error shows up.
i do not like debian package management.
the packages are split into bin/lib, dev. when you install a package it will install dependencies. after years of use, you lost in what packages you've installed and what packages are dependencies and what you no longer use.
in guix you can list the packages you installed without their dependencies.
>Firefox
>Minimal
You could've at least included Stali Linux from the Suckless folks.
>Minimalism is not a lack of something. It's simply the perfect amount of something.
[citation needed]
Anyways this would be fine as a general on a tech-oriented board, but that's not the case here so you just killed a thread on /hob/ which is a slow board and replaced it with a soon to be dead one that would've better served as a topic to reignite the Linux thread already linked.
>Minimal
You could've at least included Stali Linux from the Suckless folks.
>Minimalism is not a lack of something. It's simply the perfect amount of something.
[citation needed]
Anyways this would be fine as a general on a tech-oriented board, but that's not the case here so you just killed a thread on /hob/ which is a slow board and replaced it with a soon to be dead one that would've better served as a topic to reignite the Linux thread already linked.
>>43316
i was wrong about Debian installed packages list.
the list of manually installed packages can be generated with:
apt-mark showmanual
i was wrong about Debian installed packages list.
the list of manually installed packages can be generated with:
apt-mark showmanual
>>43307
since when has the unix philosophy ever equated to minimalism? in fact i would say it means the exact opposite, as it is far more complex to create a working environment. and that said i do agree most things in your image are minimal, but thats not really what the unix philosophy is about. in fact i think there is an unhealthy fixation on minimalism from the *nix fanbase, where all features are considered bloat before considering how those same features can improve your experience. firstly simple != minimal, nano is simple and minimal, vim is neither (it is bigger than even mousepad). but where did that mindset come from? features certainly fall under "do one thing and do it well". for example, why recommend dwm or i3 over xfce4? it has more features, sure, but it follows the unix philosophy by being very modular AND feature rich.
since when has the unix philosophy ever equated to minimalism? in fact i would say it means the exact opposite, as it is far more complex to create a working environment. and that said i do agree most things in your image are minimal, but thats not really what the unix philosophy is about. in fact i think there is an unhealthy fixation on minimalism from the *nix fanbase, where all features are considered bloat before considering how those same features can improve your experience. firstly simple != minimal, nano is simple and minimal, vim is neither (it is bigger than even mousepad). but where did that mindset come from? features certainly fall under "do one thing and do it well". for example, why recommend dwm or i3 over xfce4? it has more features, sure, but it follows the unix philosophy by being very modular AND feature rich.
>>46117
You forget to take dependencies into account. Vim is smaller than any editor built with Gtk/Qt and when you use it over network it takes less traffic and provides faster feedback than graphic updates. That said, vim is big and nano isn't that minimal either, vi is minimal, the busybox version.
You forget to take dependencies into account. Vim is smaller than any editor built with Gtk/Qt and when you use it over network it takes less traffic and provides faster feedback than graphic updates. That said, vim is big and nano isn't that minimal either, vi is minimal, the busybox version.
there is literally no reason not to use bash
if you are using a different shell you are a hipster
if you are using a different shell you are a hipster
What's the name of the browser with the "L" logo? I don't actually know shit about coding, I've just been looking for a good browser.
Vim is a beautiful software. Most of the text is white on a black background (cusomizable) unless it's something like a directory, which can be green, blue, or maybe some color I've not seen. I've little experience with it, but I do recommend using it. It's super comfy and reminds me of Linux classes, which I took in the night.
Super comfy. I recommend both if you can interact somewhat with people for help.
Super comfy. I recommend both if you can interact somewhat with people for help.
>>46137
Pathogen and vim-sleuth. YouCompleteMe maybe, and something for support of an obscure programming or config language you need. Extra functionality besides that doesn't really help and makes everything slow.
Pathogen and vim-sleuth. YouCompleteMe maybe, and something for support of an obscure programming or config language you need. Extra functionality besides that doesn't really help and makes everything slow.
>>46128
It's a text-based browser called lynx. If you want to find programs based on icons, you could crop the image and use an image search tool, or you could crawl the links in the op looking for alternative program lists.
It's a text-based browser called lynx. If you want to find programs based on icons, you could crop the image and use an image search tool, or you could crawl the links in the op looking for alternative program lists.
i wholeheartedly recommend autojump
it lets you jump to directories you've visited before (with the normal cd) by typing 'j [substring of directory name]'
it lets you jump to directories you've visited before (with the normal cd) by typing 'j [substring of directory name]'
What's the point of minimizing hardware space or ram usage? They are no longer expensive to take into account when you choose your desktop environment. How about minimizing the time it takes you to do something on the computer?
>>46178
>How about minimizing the time it takes you to do something on the computer?
Woah, are you one of those hyper-productive normies with a job?
We have all the time in the world to tinker and customize everything just for fun.
Also, minimalism is still useful for older machines, especially laptops that you can't upgrade.
>How about minimizing the time it takes you to do something on the computer?
Woah, are you one of those hyper-productive normies with a job?
We have all the time in the world to tinker and customize everything just for fun.
Also, minimalism is still useful for older machines, especially laptops that you can't upgrade.
>>46180
no i dont have a job and i doubt that most people who are into minimalism have such ancient machines that they have to use text browsers.
no i dont have a job and i doubt that most people who are into minimalism have such ancient machines that they have to use text browsers.
>>43307
actually not having your programs in the ram cache puts more work on your hard drive, because every time you open a program it loads it from the hard drive. thus, shortening the life of your harddrive
actually not having your programs in the ram cache puts more work on your hard drive, because every time you open a program it loads it from the hard drive. thus, shortening the life of your harddrive
is anyone else using xfce and i3 as window manager? i stopped caring as much about minimalism and configuring all the stuff that already exists by default on common desktop enviroments, like notifications, panel widgets etc, but i got addicted to tiling and assigning programs to workspaces.
>>46223
Mind giving alternatives? I've tried a bunch but always come back to firefox for whatever reason. Last one I tried is Dillo and had a couple of problems with it.
Mind giving alternatives? I've tried a bunch but always come back to firefox for whatever reason. Last one I tried is Dillo and had a couple of problems with it.
>>46224
If you like Firefox that's fine, but calling it minimal is objectively incorrect. It's got millions of lines of code and uses up a fuckton of CPU and RAM. It's not really a problem with modern hardware, but almost every browser that's not Chrome or IE is smaller.
If you're looking for a genuinely minimal browser, try Lynx, Links, GLinks, W3M, or Mothra. If you're looking for a browser that's mostly minimal but makes a few compromises to support modern features, try Midori or Qupzilla. If you really like Firefox but you want something that's at least smaller than Firefox, try Palemoon or Seamonkey.
If you like Firefox that's fine, but calling it minimal is objectively incorrect. It's got millions of lines of code and uses up a fuckton of CPU and RAM. It's not really a problem with modern hardware, but almost every browser that's not Chrome or IE is smaller.
If you're looking for a genuinely minimal browser, try Lynx, Links, GLinks, W3M, or Mothra. If you're looking for a browser that's mostly minimal but makes a few compromises to support modern features, try Midori or Qupzilla. If you really like Firefox but you want something that's at least smaller than Firefox, try Palemoon or Seamonkey.
>>46228
In Chrome and Firefox, their engines are heavy, not the interface. So Midori and Palemoon or SeaMonkey aren't really lighter o an extent that would make a difference, using same engines or forks that receive less maintenance.
>>46224
Keep Firefox but try a distro that compiles everything with a small C library and/or aggressively disables features at compile time and/or links statically. TinyCore or a custom Gentoo config will do. I was surprised to find out Firefox can actually be fast.
In Chrome and Firefox, their engines are heavy, not the interface. So Midori and Palemoon or SeaMonkey aren't really lighter o an extent that would make a difference, using same engines or forks that receive less maintenance.
>>46224
Keep Firefox but try a distro that compiles everything with a small C library and/or aggressively disables features at compile time and/or links statically. TinyCore or a custom Gentoo config will do. I was surprised to find out Firefox can actually be fast.
>>46187
i dont think thats entirely true. what happens when you open a program? it is then moved into ram. how is that any different from a program being cached into ram? and what happens then if a program you didnt want to open was cached into ram? i would see your logic if you were the kind of person that closes everything as soon as you are done but people like me manually cache things in ram that we actually use
i dont think thats entirely true. what happens when you open a program? it is then moved into ram. how is that any different from a program being cached into ram? and what happens then if a program you didnt want to open was cached into ram? i would see your logic if you were the kind of person that closes everything as soon as you are done but people like me manually cache things in ram that we actually use
I'm using lubuntu version 18.04 and on my older computer I was using puppy linux, a slackware puppy linux version I think. Had a bunch of problems on puppy because I had trouble installing the correct files so I could load videos in greater than 300 pixels resolution, and installing visual studio code. The terminal was different from any I've seen before, usually use LXTerminal, and it came with vim which I had trouble using. It was the fastest computer I ever owned though and I was only using it because the computer it was on was old and older os's were making it slow. I tried out a few other 'minimal' operating systems besides puppy linux on that computer, including lubuntu which I'm using on the compuer I'm using now, but all of them were very slow and puppy was the most minimal of them all, it was lightning fast too. The computer I'm using now is a newer model and using lubuntu, but compared to puppy linux it's still slower, puppy was extremely fast and I'd still use it now if I had IT computer skills.
>>46228
I have midori installed and for some reason its extremely slow. It was fast when I first installed it on this computer, but I never used it since I prefer firefox. I opened it up 3 days ago and the loading of it was slow, then tried to do a websearch and that was slow, opening a few more tabs nearly crashed my computer and I had to force close it down. Google chrome and firefox work very well for me though. Opera is good too.
>>46232
Why didn't you pick Xbuntu? I read it's more stable but I don't know exactly why people say that usually.
Why didn't you pick Xbuntu? I read it's more stable but I don't know exactly why people say that usually.
>>46233
I don't remember, but from a quick google images search of it I don't like the design of it compared to lubuntu which looks much more minimal. I've also never had any problems with using lubuntu. I don't know what you mean by 'stable', but I don't do anything but web searching and coding websites or web applications.
I don't remember, but from a quick google images search of it I don't like the design of it compared to lubuntu which looks much more minimal. I've also never had any problems with using lubuntu. I don't know what you mean by 'stable', but I don't do anything but web searching and coding websites or web applications.
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>>43307
You call that minimalism?
You call that minimalism?
>>46241
Not minimal enough, framebuffer and ALSA are part of the kernel that weighs like the entirety of Win3.1
Not minimal enough, framebuffer and ALSA are part of the kernel that weighs like the entirety of Win3.1
>>46232
I had that Slacko Puppy build too and it was amazingly quick for real. Unfortunately they stopped development. See what I wrote earlier about C library and TinyCore if you want to see that kind of performance with newer app versions.
I had that Slacko Puppy build too and it was amazingly quick for real. Unfortunately they stopped development. See what I wrote earlier about C library and TinyCore if you want to see that kind of performance with newer app versions.
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>>46181
Generally this kind of software is much more time efficient because you spend an initial time learning and configuring it. Everything comes second to ease of use in most modern software, but for those who don't mind a bit of a learning curve, using something like Vim or a command line to perform a task often makes it much faster. No normie is ever going to learn to use a tiling window manager even though it's easy as fuck, even though it's saved me countless hours of fucking around with floating windows and having one fucking workspace.
Generally this kind of software is much more time efficient because you spend an initial time learning and configuring it. Everything comes second to ease of use in most modern software, but for those who don't mind a bit of a learning curve, using something like Vim or a command line to perform a task often makes it much faster. No normie is ever going to learn to use a tiling window manager even though it's easy as fuck, even though it's saved me countless hours of fucking around with floating windows and having one fucking workspace.
Hello, I am new to this (wiz chan and minimalist software) I have installed arch on my thinkpadx201 and I am using the LARBS config by luke smith. Where do I go from here? Can you please give me some recommendations to continue to learn more about minimalist software as well as linux stuff?
Minimalist free software is the way to go. Only normies use bloated botnet that ends up being useless or changing again and again. Stay minimalist.
voidtool's "everything". faster file searches and indexing. because windows file search still sucks. https://www.voidtools.com/downloads/
>>43307
OS: emacs
wm: EXWM
web browser: eww
file manager: dired
video/music player: N/A
image viewer: image-mode
text editor: evil
shell: eshell
terminal: ansi-term
OS: emacs
wm: EXWM
web browser: eww
file manager: dired
video/music player: N/A
image viewer: image-mode
text editor: evil
shell: eshell
terminal: ansi-term
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>>58312
>video/music player: N/A
>video/music player: N/A
(defun mpv ()
(interactive)
(cl-flet ((play (this)
(message (format "mpv %s" this))
(start-process-shell-command "mpv" nil (format "mpv %s" this))))
(let ((url (thing-at-point 'url))
(file (thing-at-point 'filename)))
(cond (url (play url))
((file-exists-p file) (play file))))))Fedora Workstation user here, does anyone know a dnf command to remove packages that aren't dependencies of protected packages? My goal is to get to the bare minimum for the Distribution's standards and leave only the essentials for it to work, everything else will be flatpaks.
Currently I have tried this:
Did any wizard ever bother writing a spell for this kind of situation?
Currently I have tried this:
sudo dnf remove $(dnf list --installed | sed 1d | cut -d'.' -f1but dnf complains about dnf, gnome-shell, grub2-efi-ia32, grub2-efi-x64, grub2-pc, grub2-tools-minimal, kernel-core, shim-ia32, shim-x64, sudo, systemd, systemd-udev which are protected packages, being removed, I don't want to have them (and its dependencies) removed.
Did any wizard ever bother writing a spell for this kind of situation?
My current setup is relatively/partly minimalist.
I use Openbox on Debian with configured tiling window manager hot keys. Having used Windows for most of my life and never having used pure tiling window managers it feels like I have the best of both worlds with it. I use LXQt as desktop environment, and the bundled programs for most other things (archiver, image viewer, screensaver, etc.), Firefox as browser, MPV for audio/video, Emacs as text editor because I want to learn to use it, even if it is probably the opposite of minimalist.
Readers. I considered using Zathura for everything, but found out that it doesn't support EPUBs on Debian (the plugin for that is not available in the repositories). It has a plugin for .cb(z) files (for e.g. manga) but it doesn't work that well and lacks functionality compared to MComix that I currently use. Today I installed FBReader initially for fb2 files, but I found out it supports other formats like EPUB, for which I previously used Okular (a pretty large program compared to other readers, >100MB with its dependencies) that I could then delete. And now I have three readers:
Zathura: PDFs
FBReader: FB2, EPUB
MComix: cbz
This setup is what I kinda arrived at naturally after I started using Linux, and got used to. I don't think it's particularly good or bad, but it's what I have now.
I use Openbox on Debian with configured tiling window manager hot keys. Having used Windows for most of my life and never having used pure tiling window managers it feels like I have the best of both worlds with it. I use LXQt as desktop environment, and the bundled programs for most other things (archiver, image viewer, screensaver, etc.), Firefox as browser, MPV for audio/video, Emacs as text editor because I want to learn to use it, even if it is probably the opposite of minimalist.
Readers. I considered using Zathura for everything, but found out that it doesn't support EPUBs on Debian (the plugin for that is not available in the repositories). It has a plugin for .cb(z) files (for e.g. manga) but it doesn't work that well and lacks functionality compared to MComix that I currently use. Today I installed FBReader initially for fb2 files, but I found out it supports other formats like EPUB, for which I previously used Okular (a pretty large program compared to other readers, >100MB with its dependencies) that I could then delete. And now I have three readers:
Zathura: PDFs
FBReader: FB2, EPUB
MComix: cbz
This setup is what I kinda arrived at naturally after I started using Linux, and got used to. I don't think it's particularly good or bad, but it's what I have now.
>>43307
is there a small OS that implements a GUI of its own? im thinking of a haiku without the compatibility bloat, using only its own things
is there a small OS that implements a GUI of its own? im thinking of a haiku without the compatibility bloat, using only its own things
I thought the thread was about real life minimalism and started writing about how I own very little and simplify different areas of my life