Wizardly Optimism, positive thinking, good vibes, etc all that here. What gives you strength wizards? What helps you through the dark times? How did you overcome your most horrible despairs? Share all that positive energy with fellow wizards.
For myself, I became an optimist after I realized that my life is basically the best way I could live. What normals have is worthless to me completely. I only felt bad because society told me I should feel ashamed for being a wizard-hermit. How wrong they are. Now that I'm at peace with myself life is awesome. How did you reach ataraxia, wizards?
>>187464 >What gives you strength wizards? Sometimes I feel better after physically exhausting myself, won't call it sports, because there is no athletic ideal in it. >What helps you through the dark times? My time isn't dark and worthless… is what I try to tell myself. But every now and then I literally feel like I'm being crushed by my thoughts. No matter where I go, there I am. However I know these times pass and I've held up many times. >How did you overcome your most horrible despairs? Seems I have to wait them out. I'm in uni, worrying I will drop out due to lack of actually studying and I should be able to cope with my emotions better by this age but I guess I'm kinda damned as a result of how I developed for the time being. Distracting myself from uncomfortable feelings with the internet is costing me everything. Sometimes I almost believe I could enjoy life, but other times I get an unshakable feeling I'll never be able to get to grips with my life. It feels like I'm destined to kill myself sooner or later, sorry if it's /dep/ but I'm trying to break out. >Share all that positive energy with fellow wizards. I guess my printer was set up without issue today, I'm thankful of that. Also sorry if I'm encroaching. I don't think I can really call myself a true apprentice, but I don't mesh that well with life and the way others live it either. >How did you reach ataraxia, wizards? I didn't. It must be an incredible boon to be mentally stable. In times when I feel better it's amazing to wake up and think: "Hey, there's a lot of things I can and would like to do" but then It'll come crashing down just days later because I can't (yet?) get my life under control. What made you reach inner peace? How do you know when you're there?
Sleeping pills - helps me get plenty of refreshing sleep. Anti-depressants - keeps my mood happy all the time. Mood stabilizers - stops me from getting manic or too happy. Beta blockers - stops me from having panic attacks.
Doctor wants to add in stimulants soon. I'm excited to try them because my meds have made me put on a lot of weight and stimulants are known to supress appetite. While on stimulants it will give me more energy and focus which sounds like an amazing thing to me.
So yeah wizzies, I am very pro-medicine having been unmedicated throughout my 20s and struggled more than I'd ever want my worse enemies to struggle. The value of having access to modern medicine and good doctors cannot be over-stated if you have illness like myself.
>>187468 >>187469 Yeah, I take meds for my severe mental illness. No, it doesn't make me less of a man. Fuck off with that toxic retard level of masculinity, normalfag. If you want to be a dumb ass and refuse medication because you think it makes you weak then go ahead and don't take any antibiotics next time you get an ear infection.
>>187471 No one said anything about masculinity. I think you might have a complex and overly sensitive about your own feelings.
Personally I am critical because it's dancing on a razor's edge. The slightest miscalculation heavy psych drugs can fuck you up super duper bad. I have seen it kill so many people both directly and indirectly. Only thing more dangerous is becoming reliant on alcohol.
>>187472 My post was cross-posted to feels and then paraphrased as 'the last man' to mock me. The above post has the same wording. The implication is that modern men who are treated with medication for depression are less manly because they didn't just 'suck it up' and move on without treatment which is honestly something a misinformed boomer would say about mental illness.
For some reason it's become very popular for uninformed young men who suffer from mental illness to refuse treatment for ideological reasons because they think 'that's just the way the world is', believe conspiracies about pills, or feel less independent about having to rely on medication. Many people are also misinformed about side effects and expect that they'll get every side effect listed for a medication.
It's not a smart decision to ignore doctors advice and not take medication, and from what I've seen very few people have good reasons to do this.
>>187473 >Bringing up off site drama to justify irrational emotional reaction to something no one here said
If you are going to behave like this you really need to leave because clearly you are only going to cause trouble for anyone who attempts to communicate since you are reaction to things that aren't there. I have no tolerance for that kind of disruption and disrespect.
>>187464 What gives me strength is that I am at peace with the fact that I am just naturally a loner and realized the freedom that comes with that. As for dark times, they do still happen, sometimes I get caught up in my own head and the sort of nihilistic thought spiral many here are familiar with. But I guess I have gotten better at riding it out, being more compassionate with myself and moving on. Overcoming the worst things in my life are similar, being more compassionate with yourself, accepting what you have done and who you are and moving on to live your life is the best thing you can do in my experience. What also helped me greatly is focusing on the immediate things I can improve like making sure I get enough (and regular) sleep, eat decent food and do some light exercise and stretching. Today I managed to get up at the time I set for myself and was able to make some progress on my programming book. I also stretched and cleaned. I am grateful that I had the energy to do that, even if now I have just been idling at my computer for the entire afternoon but that's alright. Step by step.
>>187471 >>187473 The quote is from Thus Spoke Zarathustra. I just found it humorous how you need to guzzle several types of pharmacological drugs in order to function on a daily basis, yet you post it with such glee and optimism, looking forward to another addition that will polish you around the edges. I happen to know you take 20 dietary supplements on top of that, and I'm sure afterwards you might be looking for something to relax you after "focusing" and being "productive" all day and the entire set will be complete…
Indeed, you have invented happiness. Before the doctor's developed these drugs, life was completely unlivable. Without mood stabilizers, how did anyone survive a rainy day? Good thing you are taking a hefty dose of anti-depressants or this exchange might have left you bedridden for days.
>>187490 Not him, I get where you're coming from but at this point I just constantly fail to get to grips with my shit. I don't know, maybe there is a magic pill? Will be getting yet another med, after spending 2 more years without meds and miserable. But who am I kidding, it probably won't change with meds either. I don't know man, should I just kill myself already? It's been going downhill for over 5 years now and only getting more numb, but not changing.
>>187464 When I laid at the bottom of the pit of despair I asked Why am I alive? and the response: I was still convulsed by life. It would have been dishonest to deny this, and this is my optimism.
When you say your optimism is peace and freedom this is the optimism of the artist who beautifies the world, but there's also the optimism of the priest in your ascetic denial of life and values. The ascetic denies this life and postulates other worlds, so the end of his despair swings with the force of several universes: this force is the degree to which he desires another way of living, so it is a revolutionary optimism.
Personally I don't trust meds or psychiatry-psychology to be of any help. I tried some drug they gave me but after a short while I got used to it and instead of peace or happiness I only felt a gaping emptiness within me. Plus, even if they worked I would hate going to sessions with my therapist every few months and talking about my personal life or even to just beg for more pills. I like to rely on myself rather, even if it is harder this way.
>>187495 Is your post inspired by Nietzsche's The Birth of Tragedy? Anyway, I kind of accepted that I am in no way a tragic hero or artist in the way Nietzsche praises these things. The rationality of the stoics and eastern religions are better for a person like me. Honestly, there is no value in getting wrapped up in your negativity, unless you are actually a strong or influential person in the world. Negative feelings are there for you to motivate you to change the world and your environment but if you are weak like me then it is better to just strive for ataraxia or nirvana or whatever along these lines. I hated the stoics for a long time because thought they were full of shit but now they make sense to me. If you can't change the world then why be upset about it? Sorry in advance if I misunderstood your post and wrote irrelevant things.
>>187490 You make it sound like I'm taking pharmaceuticals to treat garden variety emotions. That's not what mental illness is. We've debated your views in the past and you don't know what you're talking about.
>>187501 Well, that would mean I should be a martial artist or a fighter because I liked playing Tekken as a kid. In a broader sense, I was playing the bad guy a lot by myself. Literally my first memory is playing a bandit and shouting at my mom with a toy gun in my hand "Money or life!" lol
>>187467 I don't think I have a "mental illness" per se, although when I was younger I probably thought I had some kind of anxiety disorder.
I realize now that my reaction is perfectly natural and that modern society subjects us to particular circumstances that are at odds with our natural inclinations.
The stress, discomfort, anxiety I feel is not stemming from some strange and obscure dysfunction of the mind, moreso it is the fact that I am put in circumstances that my ancestors likely would have reacted to differently, but due to being socialized I am forced to endure it, so to speak.
I do believe mentall illness can exist, but I view the idea of categorizing mental states and emotional responses in that way to be somewhat limiting, even if it is useful or convenient at times.
What is the solution? Well you either escape the matrix somehow, or else you have to find a way to cope, or simply endure the suffering.
I personally remember as young as 15yr old I discovered the appeal of mind-altering substances. For example I would drink alcohol before class because I found school to be alienating and generally intolerable.
It really was so fascinating to me how effective drugs were as a solution. The right pill or powder, the right dosage, and the subjective experience changes so dramatically. Instead of feeling miserable or being scared, I could float through life in a blissful, euphoric, drug-induced trance.
I certainly see the appeal to being medicated. However experience has led me to realize that most substances are ultimately only a faustian deal: the more effective they are, the greater the long term consequences are, such as rebound anxiety, inability to experience pleasure, withdrawals, or dependence issues. I also see why someone will see using drugs or being medicated as weakness. I think that myself, in a way using those drugs is giving up, its submitting.
>>187496 I have a similar aversion to the idea of talking to a therapist or relying on a prescription to get pills. I hate the very idea. However I instead manage to obtain various substances, some that are legal and can be ordered online. And others that aren't, but can still be obtained with some extra precautions.
>>187504 >I think that myself, in a way using those drugs is giving up, its submitting.
Why though? If you had a bladder infection would you be 'submitting' taking anti-biotics? The tendency to personalize emotions, perceptions, and behaviours is a faulty one. Everything ultimately arises from the brain and people with mental illness have abnormalities in the brain.
If you refuse to accept help for a medical illness you're not proving that you're 'strong' or can deal with things yourself. You are just showing a stubborn and ignorant willingness to make life harder for yourself ultimately for no reward at all.
>>187505 >You are just showing a stubborn and ignorant willingness to make life harder for yourself ultimately for no reward at all. I'm curious what the empirical basis for punishment and reward are, and what you exactly mean by life being harder or easier. As you said, we shouldn't personalize what is ultimately neurochemistry and social conditioning. We should apply the same scientific methodology to these evidential normatives as we do to the brain. Any unwillingness to investigate this would be simple stubbornness and ignorance in our sober pursuit of the truth.
>>187505 >Why though? If you had a bladder infection would you be 'submitting' taking anti-biotics? No, but in my opinion this is not a legitimate comparison. As I said, I believe mental illness likely does exist, but I also realize how subjective diagnoses can be when we discuss mental illnesses. I believe it is weakness in my case because as I said, I don't believe I suffer from any mental dysfunction, but merely use drugs because the benefit it gives me (less anxiety, less stress, more motivated,etc). I think it is weakness because it avoids confronting the actual root cause of these symptoms. Anxious because I am subconsciously fully aware how vulnerable I actually am, how little control I have. Stress for similar reason. No motivation also stems from something deeper, an awareness that leads to things feeling futile and unrewarding. I don't think this is from a disorder, rather I think it is from my mind being acutely aware of certain truths. So drugs are sort of a way to dope without actually directly facing the problem, hence weakness.
This is hardly a novel or esoteric idea at this point, but it is worth repeating and emphasizing how the current system works to change people's minds rather than change the source of those issues. Yes, some people actually do have something wired wrong in their mind, some small quirk of the nervous system or a chemical reaction in their mind that leads to mental illness. However I think in many cases there's nothing "ill" about a person's mental state, so much as their personality is classified as a such because of its incompatibility with modern ideals/social expectations.
The evidence of this can be seen by the sheer volume of such diagnoses being handed out. If you take 10 people and 3 to 5 kf them end up being diagnosed with some disorder and subsequently medicated, perhaps you need to observe things from a different perspective. A rough metaphor, but imagine a person drops something heavy on their foot and becomes injured. Is their mind at fault for them being in pain? In a technical, very literal sense - yes - but there is a reason their mind is making them feel pain, because something is injured.
In many ways I think the pharmaceutical industry is guilty of this on a large scale: convincing people that they need painkillers, rather than realizing the reason their feet hurt is because heavy weights have been dropped on them.
You seem to be aware of the aversion and distrust many people (especially young men) have towards the mental illness diagnoses but I believe you have misattributed exactly where those impressions stem from. >>187507 What is this?
>>187509 >I think it is weakness because it avoids confronting the actual root cause of these symptoms. Anxious because I am subconsciously fully aware how vulnerable I actually am, how little control I have. Stress for similar reason. No motivation also stems from something deeper, an awareness that leads to things feeling futile and unrewarding. The separation from your own humanity you experience, and the precarity of your situation, presumably serves the interests of the market where your own psyche is sold back to you. Perhaps your quality of life even improves after undergoing this process, but at no point have your been treated as a real person, and the cause of your dispossession remains unaddressed. Note how the prevalence of suicide in unproductive demographics is accepted as a given, and 600,000 people dying from oxycontin barely registers as an event. You already know this.
>>187473 I have watched someone have a massive seizure in front of their small child screaming for help because they were on a drug cocktail similar to you and had half a coup of fruit punch that had grapefruit in it.
I have seen several people carted out of their homes dead after psyc drug interactions killed them. Drugs as prescribed by their doctor. I know even more who killed themselves when the drugs fucked with their head. People who weren't even suicidal or depressed before taking the medication. Shit almost killed my aunt because of a interaction with psy meds and cheese.
Don't fool yourself. There is a significant danger to altering your brain chemistry with a host of chemicals. That danger stacks with each substance you add to the mix. One slip up by you or your doctor, one miscalculation, one random food item or over the counter drug and you can be dead or close to it. This is what is meant by the comment "dancing on a razor's edge".
It's not a smart decision to stack risk factors of adverse effects, especially in the long term.
After being tortured by various nonsense and bullshit outside of my control and then mercifully being freed for a time, I'm grateful for my simple, peaceful life of hedonistic NEETdom. I know more horrible bullshit is inevitably on the way, but right now things are good. I'm enjoying my games and anime and that's all a wiz could ask for.
>>187511 There's also a risk factor for people with mental illness who don't take their medication. E.g. suicide risk for bipolar and schizophrenics. The rare chance of a drug interaction is well worth it compared to crippling illness.
What you describe is an oddity and isn't typical for people who take these meds.
>>187519 >What you describe is an oddity They are all well know, well documented, not uncommon effects of those drugs when taken in combination or on the mid to high end of therapeutic does. It's not typical to take several of these drugs together. That is why usually the side effects are manageable. What is untypical is taking large combination of powerful psychoactive drugs, which has the effect of massively increasing the odds of a extreme adverse reaction or life threatening side effect.
I am sure if your doctor isn't being negligent they probably explained that too you and you just blew it off or ignored them. If they didn't then you need to speak with a doctor that is actually going to be honest with you.
Each drug you add to the stack increases your risk significantly of life treating negative outcomes.
>>187505 >If you had a bladder infection would you be 'submitting' taking anti-biotics?
If only psychiatric drugs worked as advertised, but due to the nature of the "disease" itself, people can get temporarily better simply by believing it and it's extremely difficult to design a study that can properly account for that placebo effect. >Everything ultimately arises from the brain and people with mental illness have abnormalities in the brain.
And this is so obvious and demonstrable on a case by case basis that you were asked to go in for a head scan before being considered for your legal amphetamines? Wait, no, they just checked off a bunch of vague symptoms of a list? Yeah, sounds about right.
>>187522 >Each drug you add to the stack increases your risk significantly of life treating negative outcomes.
This is bullshit. Doctors are well trained in how drugs interact as part of their schooling. Drug interactions are also commonly published. You're appealing to some mystical, unscientific sense of uncertainty which I'm not buying since I know the basics of how the drugs I'm taking actually work.
That's why for example: when I switched from taking lexapro to venlafaxine, my doctor didn't simply tell me to take the medication straight away. He knew that mixing two SSRIs was dangerous and instead allowed for a 'wash-out period' for the lexapro.
>>187523 >extremely difficult to design a study that can properly account for that placebo effect.
Complete bullshit and shows you're talking out your ass here because double-blind controlled studies are literally for comparing drugs to the placebo effect. Statisticians and drug trials are designed to account for the placebo effect. Generally speaking, a company wants to make sure that the drugs they are going to bring to market WORK before doing so. Because it costs money to market drugs and if studies are later going to show it doesn't work doctors won't prescribe them. >And this is so obvious and demonstrable on a case by case basis that you were asked to go in for a head scan before being considered for your legal amphetamines?
You're literally trying to derail the thread and troll me by implying that all mental illness isn't real. You're a troll and your views are based on misinformation or intentional misrepresentations of the facts. You seriously need to fuck off and find something to do rather than trolling people with medical problems online. You're a fucking loser.
>>187524 >This is bullshit. Doctors are well trained in how drugs interact as part of their schooling. Real doctors are horrified, how big pharma derails healthcare. You are a shill >You're literally trying to derail the thread and troll me by implying that all mental illness isn't real. mental illness is real, "magical pill" isn't.
>>187524 >Doctors are well trained in how drugs interact as part of their schooling. Anon this may seem like BS but you would be surprised if you knew how incompetent some doctors are. They are only humans, after all. A lot of deaths can be directly attributed to malpractice.
If you think you can trust anything just because a doctor told you its ok, you might eventually be in for a rude awakening.
A very easy example demonstrating this: consider the case when doctors once handed out powerful benzodiazepines like candy, mostly to middle aged mothers etc for anxiety. Afaik, they told them it's ok to take them every day or as needed. However the problem is that benzodiazepines will be severely dangerous withdrawals after using long term, in fact the withdrawals from those drugs like xanax or klonopin can be fatal.
It's important to do your own research, it is unwise to assume everything your doctor tells you is perfect truth and gospel.
>>187524 >Generally speaking, a company wants to make sure that the drugs they are going to bring to market WORK Well yeah. Of course amphetamines are going to WORK, they're fucking amphetamines. So person A got placebo and person B got pharma grade amphetamine, yes person B can confirm the pill WORKS. That doesn't at all prove the existence of ADD or ADHD as anything more than an arbitrary classification of traits. Like he said, why do they simply check off boxes instead of doing a brain scan?
>>187537 I agree with everything you said but > It's important to do your own research, This is nonsense. Research how? Cause if you use scholarly articles those are published by the same doctors who you are warning against trusting wholesale. And all the other medical research on the planet is everything from magic beans to chakras. It’s less important to do your own research than it is to find a physician you trust. I’m not against doing your own research as education is always a benefit, but saying this like someone will comb through pages of journals and actually come out the other side more informed is bunk. The articles are written for their peers, and everything else is watered down and thus has lost all nuance for the sake of clarity and expedience.
Supposing a doctor prescribed you adderall, I imagine you could learn much more about the mechanism and neurochemical effects of that by reading some of these links. It isn't all just magical knowledge that can only be known if you are a Doctor. Why do you elevate them so highly above other mortals?
>>187543 Trust is not built on certifications. You should talk to your doctor and analyze how they conduct their practice. See how eager or hesitant they are to prescribe you antibiotics for a small illness, see how throughly they explain the risk factors of treatments and medications, pay attention to how they form their own opinions when confronted with new research. If they prove to be level headed and somewhat cautious, but willing to change when the evidence is stacked, they are someone I would trust.
>>187524 >You're literally trying to derail the thread That's rich coming from the person who derailed a thread about happyness to one being exclusively about themselves and their extremely extensive list of mental health problems.
All right guys, cool it. This isn't about meds or anything, if you want to argue about them make another thread.
>>187550 I don't know, why shouldn't a wiz be optimist? If you realize that every bad thing in your life happened for a reason then there isn't anything you should be afraid of. I've come to believe in God and I know even the sufferings he gives me from time to time are of use to me. I agree with Leibniz, we live in the best of all possible worlds. That only reason you are depressed or a pessimist is because you refuse to assign any meaning to suffering. Once you go beyond it, you will be free finally. Everything is just perfect the way it is, people just refuse to see it. Read religious writings and the stoics and understand, friend, that there is no reason to get upset about life at all. Complaining and negativity won't lead to anything good at all, out of shit only comes forth more shit in the end.
>>187556 Listen I have nothing against optimism. What I don’t like is the “suffering is actually good because Gawd wants you to suffer”. So no, I don’t think all suffering has purpose, and I am not a religious person in any capacity. Also I saw you get into a huge argument in the other thread and I just do not care enough to debate you.
>>187557 I know how you feel because I also thought like you for a long, long time. You probably think I am only trolling or I am a contrarian who wants to debate people here. No. I talk honestly and I'm not making any of this shit up, people much smarter and wiser than me said it in the past numerous times, religious leaders and philosophers of all kinds. The root of your suffering is the fact that you refuse to accept suffering. You cling to your desires and fears, you want to evade suffering because you see it as something harmful to you. Rest and find peace in the will of God, let go of your ties that bind you to this false world. If you can't believe in God then get into stoicism or buddhism. The major teachings across the world agree on that you need to give up your ego in order to find peace of any kind. I know how you think. 'I'm smarter than anyone, God is an idiot for making a world like this' - but wiz, it is only in your perception that suffering is wrong. You can't understand all of God's works and plans, you are only a piece of sand in the desert of the universe, our Creator knows best what is good for us. Just go with the flow and give up your anxieties and desires. Let God fill you in, lift you up, and give you strength. Ironically, this "suffering is evil" mentality only leads to more suffering on your part. You can't change the world or make it a better place, yet you are disturbed by it. This is the worst. You are wrapped up in your own negativity. It doesn't help anyone. The best you can do is accept God's will and surrender yourself to him. He knows how life should be and you can't change anything either way.
>>187554 >>187561 What about the endless purely meaningless suffering in this world? People and animals being tortured to death, etc. Reincarnation? I believe in God but this clearly isn't one of his better worlds. Almost seems like something so horrible couldn't have been created by the all-powerful God…
>>187562 I don't think it is meaningless at all. It seems meaningless to our pov because we can barely see beyond this world. God has a better view of things and he is the only one who can understand how the universe really works. For example, someone who was born blind maybe was born this way because otherwise he would have led an extremely evil life. Makes sense to me.
Who am I to argue with God, at the end of the day? I'm just a human, if God himself went through suffering and was crucified for the greater good then the message is that you shouldn't be afraid of suffering. Suffering will always find you in this world but you can change how you perceive it. You can fear it like an animal or try to fight against it (in vain) and cause yourself more suffering in turn…or you can just accept that the world is perfect this way and suffering has a purpose and is useful to us. Even buddhism has reasons for why we suffer, namely to pay for our past mistakes and wrong-doings if I understand it correctly.
No matter if you are a theist or not, trying to flee from suffering will only cause you more suffering, that is the moral of the story.
>>187563 Who are you to discard what little faculty of reason God has gifted you and simply assume that the purpose is incomprehensible? Didn't you come to your own retarded conclusion by human reasoning? What God would put you in this world without giving you the tools to understand it even a little? Do you not know evil when you see it? Because there is plenty of evil built into nature itself. Leibniz was a grade-A midwit retard who got completely BTFO by everyone who responded to him. It's the quintessential head in the sand cope philosophy that there ever was. Any cursory glance at the horrors of history and nature refutes it. What's the point of horrible natural disasters, torture, animals dying by being eaten alive, botflies and jiggers, harlequin syndrome, bubonic plague and leprosy? Reincarnation is the only thing that could excuse this world, but you don't seem to believe in it.
>>187564 Let's not forget how only the most sociopathic scum fuck lizards rise to the top in this world. Virtue isn't rewarded but punished here, and people's lives depend almost entirely on the circumstances they were born and raised into. Perfect world my ass. A wizard should know better.
>>187550 Every time I am positive on this site I am shit on for it. I know better despite my life being generally great and me being generally happy. If I were to talk about it crabs would come out to try and drag me down.
>>187570 No, “crabs” come out to shit on you because you tell people that they have nothing to be sad about. I post about things that make me happy or feeling happy all the time and no one has given me grief for it. People just hate being proselytized to.
>>187571 So just making shit up are you? Putting words in my mouth and accusing me of things I didn't do? Yeah, that's the kind of shit the crabs do whenever they see someone who isn't suffering as bad as they are. In otherwords you are doing exactly what they do which makes me suspect you are one.
This thread really went to shit. You know with 4chan it's filled with retarded faggots but at least you know such people are doing it for the lulz. But here it's just like you have no idea if people are actually trolling or are genuinely ignorant and/or stupid. Every time someone argues against common sense I have no clue what the fuck is going on. Is it an elaborate form of gas lighting, are people just fucking with you, are they just mistaken? Wtf. All I know is its fucking frustrating and I wish people would stop doing it.
>>187564 >>187566 No, I came to my conclusion through the grace of God. Human reasoning is worth shit, anyone who is honest with themselves can tell you this. First, we don't even know for sure we live in reality at all, what is there to stop us from assuming what we experience as reality is only just a dream? Everything is based on faith in life. Your post smells of insecurity, hatred, fear and anxiety. You let your personal thoughts and emotions cloud your mind. You view this world as bad simply because you assume for some reason that suffering is inherently evil. If you accept the good parts of life from God then why do you refuse the "bad"?
Gnosticism and similar thought systems are the result of materialistic thinking, they can't go beyond the "suffering is evil" meme. People don't realize that you can't both live well in this world and receive the kingdom of God at the same time. It is either one or the other, you either suffer in this world by living virtously or you enjoy this world - that is all. Gnosticism and similar philosophies can't see this. What you list as evil is only evil to you, suffering has a purpose and we live in this kind of world because God wants to test us.
What's the difference between you people and me? Here: I will get sick and you will get sick too, I will be visited by poverty and you will too, I will suffer and you will suffer too. However, I always wake up with strength and courage because I have faith and therefore I can always do my best, even in the worst situations. I don't have to be tortured by my inner demons too on top of everything. While you, rejecting suffering and seeing it as pointless, don't have anything to cling to. You wake up with despair and lay yourself down to sleep in despair, on top of all the shit you encounter in life you have to wage battle with yourself too day by day. It is irrational, childish, female-like to be consumed by your emotions and anxieties. You won't get anything for being a pessimist. This is the secret of the cross - if you embrace suffering you will triumph in the end ultimately, while if you are too cowardly to let go of everything and give up your life then you will suffer more.
No matter what you say, you are better off as an optimist in every single way. >>187565 lol I don't collapse, I've heard these childish arguments against God, suffering and meaning several times in my life. They are still weak and forced. It is the token pessimist speaking. By the way, even Schope said that killing yourself isn't the solution, because you still act out of desire and selfishness. Suicide isn't a solution, letting go of desire and attachment is. Think about it.
>>187607 Even if there is no God and afterlife, what do you gain by rebelling against fate, though? Nothing. You only shake yourself up and make yourself suffer emotionally too. Just accept your fate and endure it. It is for your own benefit, why rage about something you can't change? Why fight against God when you won't win?
Destroy your ego and find true peace. Let go of your desires and emotions and embrace manly rationality.
>>187606 What I don't understand about these Christ fags is if you're going to believe in a god why not construct a world-view that is actually possible with modern science? For example, godliness in the sense of advanced technology or the simulation argument. Not retarded archaic notions that are repeatedly disproved by anyone (like creationism.)
>>187606 If you don't think suffering is bad, how can you be against dwelling on it for the reason of that creating more suffering? Don't you see how this is self-defeating? If suffering isn't bad then how can Jesus' sacrifice mean anything? This world IS evil, and the point is to reject and escape it through meditation/prayer and good works. That was Christ's message.
>>187609 But what do you gain by complaining, whining and negativity? Negative emotions are there for you to torture you, to motivate you into action to change your environment. However, if you are an insignificant and weak person like most people here, then there is no point in mentally torturting yourself.
>>187614 Why is creationism something unimaginable to you? Do you think matter just suddenly appeared out of thin air? As far as logic goes, a creator god is still the best answer out there. Besides, this is all a matter of faith. You can't prove to me for 100% what I experience right now isn't just a dream. Everything in life is based on faith.
>>187615 Because if you dwell on suffering itself you are ruled by this world already. It means you are attached to life if you are sad, that is why many eastern religions consider lethargy or sadness as something to be avoided, an error. There is a difference between mental suffering and physical pain. You can't really defend against all kinds of physical pain, you can try but you will still get cancer or a bus will hit you accidentally, etc. However, you can rule your thoughts and emotions and therefore you can achieve complete inner peace and freedom, a state of unity with God. If you let the world shake you up, to influence your inner world then you are still the slave of the world and you don't know the freedom of God. >If suffering isn't bad then how can Jesus' sacrifice mean anything? You don't understand the myth. It is all about how suffering should be accepted and treated as a natural part of life. If you give up your life you will live, but if you try to save your life (or escape from suffering) you will end up throwing yourself into the arms of suffering more and more. >This world IS evil, and the point is to reject and escape it through meditation/prayer and good works No, the point is God made life sacred by living among us. He chose to be born here in poverty and live like a wanderer. The point is that try to do what you can to live a good-virtous life but don't get attached to wordly things because they are only temporary. Find peace in God and rest in the fact that everything happens according to his will.
Contentment and nirvana are abusive myths in life. No one has the key to happiness. Motion and alteration are inevitable. Your image of ataraxia, frozen in false eternality via your post is a cruel lie to all of us. You will be unhappy again, your current answer having proven fragile. Later still you will fall again into a sclerotic happiness, which itself will shatter once more into shards of misery. This is life's rhythm, whereby we are stretched and bent into old wrinkled geezers.
Continually fighting against pain is a strategy of disappointment. Best to yearn for suffering and accept its omnipresence, to seek out pain and to mock God by bathing in unease to the point where unease begins to lose its bite. That is the tactic I utilize, for the time being, until it too becomes unworkable. However, so far this attitude proves resilient.
>>187624 Probably my fault too that we misunderstand each other so now I try to be clear as much as I can. I believe the material world is only temporary and pretty much like an illusion, it is imperfect in this sense. Yet it is the best world of all possbile worlds in the sense that it fulfills its purpose at being mediocre and false perfectly. Without this world there would be no need to pursue God and enlightenment. It is exactly because we live in a world like this that we yearn after the perfection of God. So the material world is both full of faults yet still perfect because it completes its purpose given to it by God. Everything that exists fulfills its purpose ultimately so nothing is bad in this sense. I hope I cleared up some things a little.
>>187625 I don't know, I believed too that contentment is a myth only. Now I tasted what it is like, it seems like it is so easy to achieve and maintain. Nowadays I find it hard to be touched by this world, whether joy or sadness, I only feel peace, an eternal peace, like I was asleep. Being asleep in world of delusions is actually then like being awake? Questions, questions.
>>187662 >you can't reason yourself into contentment Actually, you can…Many religions and philosophies concentrate on this matter and it's not even a new thing…With self-control and strength you can do it too.
>>187606 6/10, but I mostly agree with you. There's no fundamental reason to think we can't bring a kind of paradise to Earth and guide people to live predominantly virtuous. Everything that isn't God will pass, especially evil rulers in the world, but virtue is an essence of divinity, and it is by virtues that mankind survives, instead of reaching species-wide suicide.
There was a period in history where almost no one believed in monotheism, now monotheism is the majority. Even with Christianity at its weakest in centuries, why shouldn't it eventually return to being on the rise, and why shouldn't it be possible for it to eventually become the belief of at least 99% of people, who almost perfectly follow its moral doctrines?
>>187665 I understand that your life (and the lives of other wizards in this thread) is going well enough that you can afford to believe you have agency when it comes to your happiness and fulfillment, but please understand that your experiences are subjective.
>>187684 >Does not exist Bold claim. Guess all of science and empiricism is wrong just because you say so. >Anon is not talking about control >I understand that your life (and the lives of other wizards in this thread) is going well enough that you can afford to believe you have agency when it comes to your happiness and fulfillment, but please understand that your experiences are subjective. >agency >Anon is not talking about control >agency Dude, I think you need to work on your volcab and reading comprehension.
>>187670 >6/10 I'm not trolling. As for what you wrote, I'm not so sure. I'm not an optimist in that sense, regarding humanity overall. If anything, I see that even when religions were at their strongest in a certain culture, even then the majority couldn't or didn't want to understand the core teachings of God. My optimism is more about along the lines of "God will always send some chosen few who will represent his message among the sinful masses". So I don't think it would be quite right to expect God to turn this world into a paradise, because that would defeat its purpose. This world is imperfect on purpose (therefore perfect too, a paradox of God), to test us who are loyal to God. Of course, who knows what God plans for us humans? Maybe we will yet see a return to spiritualism and to the virtous life en masse, however we should do our best regardless of how others behave. We should fulfill our duty and leave the rest to God, He will take care of everything as He sees fit.
>>187678 >>187684 Happiness and contentment is only possible through self-control (which is a gift of God). You could have the biggest wealth in the world and you would still be miserable if you couldn't get hold of yourself. The wisdom of the right way to live is to conquer your emotions and thoughts. Without order, everything falls apart and only chaos awaits…it is true for people too, if they can't organize themselves they will be absorbed by the void. Cut the ties that bind you to the world and taste true bliss.
>>187701 Yes, I think regardless of the utopia question, we can both agree humanity's presence in history must not be made independent of Christ and providence, through whose divine decree will be the only means for any real change.
>>187464 >Optimism, positive thinking, Normgroid shit, you don't need to be gloomy or depressed, you can and should be neutral, but positivist shit is pure normalfaggotry. >vibes. Back to reddit you go. >What gives you strength wizards? Not being normalfag like you.
>>187736 The truwiz police arrived. You claim you have a positive world-view? Then you don't belong here! Everyone knows that only miserable persons can be wizards, right?
No, seriously, why people like you can't consider for only a second that maybe everything happens for the best in this world? Do you hate being a wizard so much that you can't have a positive attitude regarding life?
>>187764 >>187785 >you don't think like me therefore you aren't a wizard!44 >if you don't hate your life and yourself then you are a normalfag All right.
>>187767 Yes, I know. But some people here want to make a new definition, so that only pessimists and depressed people can be considered wizards. I oppose this, because I like being a wizard. There is nothing for me to be a pessimist about.
>>187788 If you like being a wizard then why would it matter to you what some fags on an anonymous imageboard call you? It’s not like they can force your life to change or force you to call yourself something else.
>>187789 Maybe you are right but I would like if this site had more wizards who loved their life and shared my wizardly optimism. Because I feel like all these ultra-pessimist guys are just failed normals under their wiz robes. So I made it my mission to make others understand, both normals and wizards, that the wiz life can be fun.
>>187792 He's not going to understand this point no matter how many times you reiterate it. Somehow, the notion that external forces beyond one's control can relentlessly poke and prod and drive a person into misery have not yet occurred to him.
>>187792 >>187793 External forces only have as much power over you as you allow them to have. The mind is an amazing thing. Buddhist monks can set themselves on fire or starve themselves to death, for example. It is about how willing you are to fight for your peace of mind.
>>187793 >>187794 I’m not talking about external forces or anything. I’m talking about your perception of life. Think about how incredibly unique your conscious experience is. No one else has lived your life, seen what you’ve seen, and processed it in the same way. Every minutiae that have shaped you to this point cannot be replicated in someone else.
>>187794 >The mind is an amazing thing. Buddhist monks can set themselves on fire or starve themselves to death, for example. It is about how willing you are to fight for your peace of mind. Literally just be urself tier. Do you think this is fucking easy?
>>187761 >second that maybe everything happens for the best in this world? So you are saying, that all that countless meaningless horrors, suffering, miseries, is for the best? >Do you hate being a wizard so much that you can't have a positive attitude regarding life? I don't hate being wizard, but why should i be posive about what is practically more or less, a hell itself?
>>187798 >Literally just be urself tier Sounds like the complete oposite to me. It is talking about the changing one's self and radical self control. Not being one's self at all. Being one's self is insisting that you are who you are and their is no changing it. What that post was saying is that humans have the capacity to dramatically change and control their mind even in the most extreme of situations. >Do you think this is fucking easy? Nothing worth doing is easy.
>>187795 >>187799 I don't think so. We humans aren't that interesting. I don't believe in individualism anymore. The ego can be molded and shaped like a work of art can. There is no "You", at the end of the day. You only think there is a "you" and by clinging to this false concept you are stuck in the cycle of suffering and being dominated by the world.
>>187798 Never said it was easy, but possible nevertheless. Do you want to achieve peace or do you like suffering? Choose.
>>187800 >So you are saying, that all that countless meaningless horrors, suffering, miseries, is for the best? It's not meaningless. Everything has a meaning that happens. Yes, everything is for the best. If it happened, it happened because it had to, it was God's will and ultimately for the greater good. Everything goes according to plan, whether you like it or not. >I don't hate being wizard, but why should i be posive about what is practically more or less, a hell itself? Hell according to your subjective, incorrect perspective which is full of faults. Only a being that is higher than us can judge life accordingly, we are stuck in this dimension and because of this we can't form objective, true assumptions about life. God made this world and continues to sustain it, therefore it is good and perfect. Take a leap of faith and trust in God. If something that seems bad to you happened, then it was for your own good ultimately.
>>187802 I don’t see how being interesting changes anything. And humans indeed are malleable, it’s how we are made entirely unique. For example each snowflake is completely unique, but they all fall into the same categories and are all obviously made of ice. If there isn’t a “you” what is there? Inb4 we are all just gawd experiencing himself
>>187803 You are just a member of humanity. Another one of the hive. Beneath your ego lies your true nature, being a part of the big collective. God made us so we would help each other and serve him. Everything that is "unique" is only temporary, an illusion, a dream. God is the only permanent thing. You were created to find enlightenment, to become one with God.
>>187804 >God made us so we could help each other We clearly aren't doing a good job of that. >and serve him Ah, I see. You're one of those poor saps who buys into delusions of serving an invisible Slovenly Sky Nigger.
>>187806 >We clearly aren't doing a good job of that. That is because most people have trouble letting go of things, they want to cling to this world so much, but it is only a temporary world. >Ah, I see. You're one of those poor saps who buys into delusions of serving an invisible Slovenly Sky Nigger. lol Made ma laugh. The existence of God is painfully clear to me. Think about it. There is this little planet called Earth and nowhere near us (or further away) is there any sign of civilized life or of just life generally. But here, on this little planet, everything is given. Air, food, water, sun, etc…How crazy is that? But I will go on: okay, so life evolved here…and after millions of years it is still here! What the fuck? Even a little mud rock crashing into our planet could destroy it, and there are billions of these flying around in the galaxy around us. What are the damn chances? How can you not believe that someone is organizing everything behind the scenes? Life is a movie and the director is God. Everything goes according to his wisdom.
>>187816 I've made the exact same point (and not too long ago, coincidentally), and some christtard brushed it off. The kind of doublethink you need to engage in to account for all the horrors of the world while somehow believing in an all-powerful, all-knowing and benevolent Super Slovenly Sky Nigger is gnarly.
I used to be a crabcel warlock. I wanted to have sex and romance but couldn’t. I realized though that I was just torturing myself by thinking about it and getting sad about it. Yeah my life is objectively worse than other people’s but I just have to do the best I can with it. So I avoid anything that has to do with sex havers and succubi but also stopped going on crabs.is so that I am never reminded about my sexual and romantic desires. I’ve essentially just cauterized that part of my mind. And it’s done wonders for my mental health. I have the motivation to go to work and my copes are enjoyable again. It’s somewhat enjoyable to be alive again.
>>187827 I agree that you ought to strive for things you want, but disagree on the wants discussed. Furthermore, I believe you can change your wants with enough wisdom. In addition, everyone has different wants, whose to say what is or isn't pathetic? That's condescending and rude and simpleminded. How silly would it sound to you where some corporate shmuck said "you're pathetic for not valuing the sweat of your brow" - for being a wagie? You'd certainly laugh at him, why don't you laugh at yourself too then?
The divine isn't found in the superficial state that is the cancerous modern relationship, literally cancerous – I'm eliciting the full use of the word cancer here, cancer, something that grows and feeds itself on you until you are a dead worthless fleshbag
I would genuinely rather die alone than to deal with the frivolous thoughts most people have with their inane, cancerous relationships, literally soulsuckers, all of them, bile in your head So many bileheads in this fucking world They feed on your blood, warp your head and thoughts. These people that have morphed the very concept of a relationship; or maybe it spans back centuries, relationship is such a foreign concept at this point, propagation complex of manure
WEAK MINDED. WEAK. So sick of it. Cancerous.
Maybe this is the voices in my head telling me to leave this forsaken place
>>187830 >The divine isn't found in the superficial state that is the cancerous modern relationship You're scared and demented. Who is looking for the divine in relationships or people? Conceptualizing human relationships and humans in general as having to be divine is irrational. Nothing has to be perfect for you to take part in it. > I believe you can change your wants with enough wisdom. Men don't have to abstain from things they can easily take. I will say it again, if someone here wants sex or a girlfriend, he should go and do it. It's your life and you're free to do with it as you please.
>>187813 Your post doesn't answer anything I mentioned.
>>187816 >>187817 >>187818 >It comes across as nothing but narcissism to put the origin of the universe behind a mirror of yourslef. What is true arrogance? Isn't it the rejection of God because the world doesn't work like you would want it to work? You can't help but dismiss any idea of a system, order or plan or God because your tiny brain can't comprehend that God isn't like you at all and doesn't think like humans at all. His values and your values don't match so better get rid of the idea of a Creator altogether! Wonderful! What pride, what hubris! And yes, everything is just a coincidence, nothing more, tell yourself that before you go to sleep…because if God actually existed then you would have to change how you thought and lived and that would be sooo troublesome, better stick to that mainstream agnosticism or atheism, boys.
>>187841 You quote me yet you replied to the other guy. I'm at peace, I'm one with God.
>>187842 God and the devil are one and the same. Fuck him. Am I supposed to pardon the alligator while it chews my legs off just because I can't imagine its point of view? I'm not an atheist. I beg God not to blithely inflict novel hells upon me. It's like dealing with a giant capricious child. He's less than us. He creates sensitive creatures just to watch them tear each other apart in his personal gladiatorial universe. I indict him for his flawed creations but commiserate with him because neither of us asked to be born. I chastise God and his revenge is to preserve me.
>>187842 >he and yet again he defends in passive agressive tone, all thoose countless and meaningless horrors, suffering, miseries as something good and right You are rotten to the core. Your god is not father of christ, but saturn, the god of such things like decay both physical and spiritual, limitations of all kinds and evil in general.
>>187844 The 'devil' in the sense that you mean Satan by him, is just another one of God's children. His role is to test people. So if you want to imagine they are the same, you might as well go ahead. Nothing happens in this universe without the approval of God.
I just sigh at these continous childish outbursts and tantrums. You really can't understand how a flawed world where suffering is present can serve the greater good ultimately? If we lived in Paradise then we wouldn't be tested nor would we seek out the path of wisdom and faith. This universe is indeed about fighting, you are right but you falsely assume that the goal is survival or the lessening of pain. No, the goal is to struggle among the evils and tragedies, to overcome the world and all its sufferings and ascend to God's level. To find the path of light and to walk on it, even if it isn't easy. I hear many times people whining about how life is miserable yet they don't have any answers when I ask them how would they envision a perfect life or world. It is easy to point fingers, complain and rebel, in fact this is the easiest way. Grow up. You can only complain because you even exist in the first place, thanks to God. If you hate your creator you hate yourself, essentially.
>>187845 I'd like to clear something up, if you misunderstood. I'm not religious, I practice spiritualism. Religions of various kinds can contain the truth in them, it doesn't matter if you worship the Father or Shiva, as long as you understand correctly. My goal is to eliminate this retarded dualistic mindset which people like you preach. There is one god and everything goes according to his will. The Creator needs to be worshipped and praised.
Dualism is nothing but humans projecting their subjective experiences onto cosmological and theological matters - 'suffering is wrong therefore the creator must be wrong too' something like that. False dualism needs to be eradicated and The One God embraced. Everything you think is negative in this world serves a purpose, a greater good.
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. - Matthew 10:29
>>187860 >You really can't understand how a flawed world where suffering is present can serve the greater good ultimately? If we lived in Paradise then we wouldn't be tested nor would we seek out the path of wisdom and faith. This universe is indeed about fighting, you are right but you falsely assume that the goal is survival or the lessening of pain. No, the goal is to struggle among the evils and tragedies, to overcome the world and all its sufferings and ascend to God's level. My understanding was death was only brought into the world by Adam's disobedience. We did live in Paradise, and that was the intended state of the world as it was made perfect. There can be no struggle that can overcome original sin, it can only be achieved through salvation. You're supposedly against dualism but accept the duality of life and death. Struggle and death are unnatural in Christian thinking, the natural state is eternal life. Whatever you're describing doesn't align with Christian doctrine. This is all drivel, of course.
>>187847 >>187860 Evil worshipper. You have fallen completely under the trap of the demiurgos.
Everything in this world is carefully planned and designed with aim and purpose, you'd have to be an idiot not to see it, and you'd have to be an even bigger idiot to see it upside down. Evil isn't a problem to the existence of the Artisan, but the key hint to His existence. All happiness, pleasure, love, etc., exist purely to intensify and produce greater levels of suffering than would otherwise be possible ("greater good", more like greater evil). The concept of hell that many demiurge fanatics believe misses the point because we're already there.
It's like in Madoka Magica (once you reach this insight you can find it everywhere, anime, video games, books, normalfags' gossip) where the Incubators give underage succubi hope so that later they can reap much greater despair.
The greater a being's complexity the greater its capacity for suffering. The world is specifically designed to continually produce ever more complex suffering creatures through the process of natural selection, which is fueled by torture and horror, all the way until the emergence of the human beings, the animals with the greatest capacity to suffer and torture. We have created a hellish, nightmarish world for billions of animals (factory farming) that nothing in natural selection could ever compare to.
In a way, even all happiness and pleasure is illusory and only suffering exists (like an inverse form of St. Augustine's argument). Pleasure is result of the movement from a higher level of desire to a lower one. Complete satisfaction doesn't feel like anything because it is only the absence of desire, while desire, which is the form of all suffering, alone exists.
The meaning and purpose one gives to suffering doesn't even really matter, since suffering always reduces itself to desire for X, Y, Z, etc. The particular details and context are irrelevant (like the stories that math problems for kids usually have, "if three people get on a bus and one leaves…").
The best solution I can think of is To Disappear Completely from the material plane of existence by denying your lower animal drives for something truly great and wonderful that transcends the material plane and could never actualize in it. I myself am working on this. My plan is to create a sort of astral palace where I may go to be with my waifu (pic related) after my material body vanishes and my soul is no longer tied down to this plane. (not a shitpost.) >If you hate your creator you hate yourself, essentially. First of all, my essence, soul, mind, consciousness (whatever term you prefer) has no creator because it is timeless, has always existed and will always exist. It cannot be created or destroyed because it is not a thing, but the field in which the creation of destruction of things happen (paraphrasing Bernardo Kastrup). I wasn't created but incarcerated.
Everything within my consciousness is temporary and in permanent flux (thoughts, feelings, people, places, things, etc.), but my mind alone remains permanently present, unchanging. Souls/minds are not things inside a larger world or plane, but more like screens within which the content of different channels (planes) play. I've seen people use the metaphor of a radio that receives different waves depending on the frequency it tunes to. You may also think of it as a video game, where your human body and identity is your player character and you're stuck playing the same horrible game no matter how much you try playing another. The material plane is a sort of frequency you are tuned to. No matter how many other places you visit in your dreams or astral projections you are always being pulled back.
That's what I hate, the creator of this material plane in which I'm trapped against my will. Leaving it to finally be with my waifu is my only goal that matters, everything else is a distraction to keep me here (sex, food, money, acceptance in the herd).
>>187863 You you replied to two different people. And i don't worship saturn. As for actual god, he is just more or less neutral, indifferent cunt or not enough powerful to or stop or prevent this mess.
>>187862 I'm not a christian, certainly not a "mainstream" christian. My interpretation of the whole thing is that Paradise wasn't the goal at all, after all God planned everything. He arranged things so that human nature would be corrupted and therefore we would have to struggle in order to be good and pious. What is the point of being virtous when you can only live virtously? To be virtous in the true sense we need sin, evil, corruption and enemies in the world too. This imperfect world is a perfect battleground for the saints of God, it is where we can prove our worth. >accept the duality of life and death What do you mean? Eternal life we all have, based on how we act in this life. God already has it all taken care of, whether we reincarnate in some other form or ascend to a higher level of existence.
>>187863 >the evil creator Hehe, you people never change. Still have problems with coming to the stage when you can observe the world with a cool head and detached soul. This is what I'm talking about, people like you getting emotional and letting yourself go off-track.
It isn't even about hope, or pleasure or happiness, it is about reaching the perfect state of ataraxia, when you simply won't be affected by this world at all. You pretty much follow logic until you come to this point, then instead of calmly embracing this world and living undisturbed by it in God's peace you choose to get all worked up about a world that is only temporary. You come with this shitty and pretentious hypocrisy, that "wahh I sooo don't want to liveee" yet you are here arguing with me. Please, just do what your conclusion is already, and kill yourself if you find this existence to be so unbearable or horrible. O wait, you don't, because this is all just a farce and theatrical hysteria, common among succubi and children.
Your pessimism is empty and foolish, just like the optimism of normalfags, you are only on the other end of the spectrum. You only hate this world so much exactly because you still let it throw you around and influence you, you aren't doing a good work at all, you still cling to this world, just in a negative way.
Your waifu is shit. All waifuism is shit. God told me to give this message to you.
>>187898 Your god does not seem very different from a waifu. I guess if it gives you comfort in this world then I won't argue against you, just like I won't tell another that their waifu doesn't exist. That's such a terrible thing to do.
>>187860 I don't care about God's greater good. All I can truly know is my own experience and it tells me that all of this is waste. There is no respite. You claw out an islet of contentment amidst an ocean of evil, but it immediately begins to erode. God is torturing us or made some huge mistake constructing this universe. I want nothing to do with it. I didn't ask for this and did nothing to deserve it.
Testing? Testing the structure of our brains for adherence to an evolutional programme that selects for brutality, selfishness, slime-molds? That's what evolution points to. Look who has worldly power. Testing, what a tiresome requirement! Testing for parole out of Earth? What crime did I commit to be incarcerated here in the first place?
As for hating myself. Yes I do, because I am complicit in evil to sustain myself, because "me" is a part of this world that gets in the way. My body and mind are constructed from the tainted bars of this prison just like everyone else. I increase suffering without even noticing it. I make foolish mistakes, as do we all. We are flawed beings, tied to this entropic realm. Ideas of "ascension" and "nirvana" are the cash-cows of charlatans and the baubles of fools. The best we can hope to do here and now, is lessen our own suffering and that of those around us until finally we die and our perception is severed from this phantasmagoria. Truly there is nothing worth doing here besides reducing suffering, which is to go against the natural inclination of this realm.
The attitude of piety is that of an inmate surrounded by the multitudes who also didn't ask for this. You have your guard up, but you commiserate. You want me to have the attitude of, "oh I just love the warden so much he gave me two portions of slop today!" Fuck the warden fuck the guards, this is no pentitentiary, it is a cosmic gulag.
>>187842 >What is true arrogance? Isn't it the rejection of God because the world doesn't work like you would want it to work? It would be if we went by your convenient logic leap here which places your God as a pre-supposed reality. But it isn't, it's some completely random idea held by you and you alone. Discarding the views of random posters on wizchan does not make me arrogant, because I still understand why you have them. They're convenient. They form a solid handful of pillars within the gaudy structure that is the world-view you're imposing on others here in this thread. The same structure you use to understand things and reconcile the inherent contradictions in yourself. So again, good for you, you don't understand complex systems. This is how they work, they generate ideas like yours by the millions. Endless variations on creators, no creators, multiple creators, every possible motivation examined, every reason, every response to how we should proceed after knowledge of one of these versions were to come to us. It all plays off of each other. But none of it amounts to anything the way that simply saying what you actually understand does. And I understand the complex system. And I see the static of an old TV and I do not see patterns in it and I do not pretend I do, nor do I have an emotional need to. I don't give it a name, I don't give it a plan or a reason. Because nothing in this world communicates plans or reasons. It communicates reaction. Like this entire thought was prompted ONLY in reaction to yours. If God actually existed, nothing would change for me, because I will never be given knowledge of his existence in any way that actually requires me to change how I act. Because there may as well be a God and it may as well be one of the thousands of versions of it ever conceived by our tiny imaginations, and it may as well desire things of me. And none of this can change reality, none of this carries weight, none of this will be communicated. I am going to sleep and I sleep sound, but only because I'm tired. I didn't hang the dirty laundry of my ego up in the cosmos, I keep it with me. Yours is in plain view and it's sad.
I analyze the situation, I realize that it is terrible, then I think of ways in which I can improve. Because regardless of how everything is, you can always improve and get ahead, of course it will not be easy, and there will be many setbacks along the way, but at some point you will be able to do it. Coldness, humor, and absolute sincerity help a lot.
everything i like is fiction or in my head. when people are optimistic for the outcome of humanity, i genuinely have no idea how, it's like we're living in different planes of reality. i don't know what else to say. it's over and it's been over for a long time and the only reason to stay alive is to consume fiction and use your brain. once that stops giving you pleasure it's time to die.
>>187909 The difference is God is the ultimate reason that everything even exists in the first place, while a waifu is just a childish fantasy of some failed normal who refuses to come to terms with reality.
>>187924 Then stick to your subjective perspective and suffer even more? If you want it to be that way, what can God do, seriously? >testing Yes, testing whether you deserve to live your next life in a higher plane of existence or not. If you can't defeat this world you don't deserve God's reward. Evolution is the goal for normals who live in ignorance, same for wordly comforts like wealth, etc. >What crime did I commit to be incarcerated here in the first place? Maybe you've ascended to a higher plane of existence, haven't you thought about it? In your previous life maybe you lived way worse than now and this life is the result of your good deeds. However, you can even ascend further than this world. >reducing suffering Isn't always a good thing. Some people deserve to suffer. Suffering has its uses too. Your mindset is a degenerate and corrupt way to think. Without suffering our world wouldn't exist, suffering is the pillar our universe is built upon. Think, how life begins with suffering, as the mother gives birth among terrible pains. Some versions of suffering and pain are very beneficial to us, the rest can be defeated via self-control. The only kind of suffering you should run from is the unnecessary kind, which you cause yourself, by adopting defeatist mindsets.
>>187929 >convenient Oh, so what about you in this case? Isn't it convenient to believe there is no God or plan at all? The idea of cosmic chaos suits your nihilistic thinking so you stick to it. You go on about "complex systems", if there is a system then there must be something that organizes it. Without order and cosmic law everything would fall apart. You can't debate this, there are rules and laws in nature. Everyone can come to the realization God exists if they are honest with themselves and observe the world with logic and rationality. Your forced subjective and relativist dogma backfires you, like I said. You don't see clearly the static of the TV, you just delude yourself there is no pattern because it suits your lifestyle. There is one God, regardless of the many imagined by humanity. One who controls and manages reality, time and space. "My" God is the true god, he is the god of everything that happens, happened or will happen. In short, you don't come up with any original or convincing argument at all for why we should accept that there is no plan or reason to anything. If anything, it was the common belief through history that there is a plan or reason or meaning, so you have to explain things more, not me. I'm not saying majority thinking is always true but it's like when two people argue about what color is the sky. The guy who says it's green should explain more and better than the guy who says it's blue.
>>187932 It's a matter of tuning your mind to God's frequency. It is difficult but possible. Once you leave behind your earthly thoughts and emotions you will see everything clearly and as it is.
>>187933 Positive thinking is responsible for everything nice and good even in this realm of existence too. Nobody did anything or achieved anything with a pessimistic mindset, because then there is simply no reason to bother with anything. You don't fight me by sticking to your negative thoughts, you are fighting yourself and chaining yourself down. Amusing and pathetic.
>>187935 >Some people deserve to suffer. Suffering has its uses too. Your mindset is a degenerate and corrupt way to think. Without suffering our world wouldn't exist, suffering is the pillar our universe is built upon. Think, how life begins with suffering, as the mother gives birth among terrible pains. Some versions of suffering and pain are very beneficial to us, the rest can be defeated via self-control. The only kind of suffering you should run from is the unnecessary kind, which you cause yourself, by adopting defeatist mindsets. Do you really not have the modicum of self-awareness to realize how evil you sound here? I'm sure it makes the demiurge laugh malevolently.
>>187936 The desire to lessen suffering at all cost is sign of a society in decay which can't find any higher values anymore in life. Because this they turn against life itself by fighting the condition of life itself, suffering and want to eradicate it completely. God made this universe the way it is for a reason. Suffering is a part of it and makes it complete.
for me it's the roman catholic variant of the christian religion namely being in sanctifying grace, at least an hour of daily prayer in various forms, and reading mostly the bible, aquinas and thomas a kempis if i go to hell in the end, at least everyone i don't like will be in lower circles than me that and larping as a monk is cool, celibate clergymen are very close to wizardry, if you discard the social aspect
>>187983 If you're a believer what's stopping you from becoming a monk? If I had faith the first thing I would do is becoming a novice and enter monastic life asap. You're very lucky indeed to have this option available to you. John 6:65 And He said, 'Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.' Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God”
>>187983 >for me it's the roman catholic variant of the christian religion So not christianity, but saturn worship. >i don't like will be in lower circles than me Dante inferno is literally fanfiction, holier than thou faggot. And cults of saturn are unwizardly and anathema. They represent distilled essense for what normalfags stand for.
My latest cope is delusions of somehow making shitloads of money even though I have no skills, zero work ethic and riddled with fear and anxiety. I fantasise constantly of making 5 figures a month from crypto or affiliate sites or some shit. No idea where to start but I just wish I had money so bad it would make life so much more bearable
>>187958 This society is total garbage and I dream of its collapse. Pain is evil, creator of pain is evil. Evil imposition in this life and unthinking creatures eating each other and shitting each other out. Retarded swollen heads gazing at their navels hallucinating the heavenly Jerusalem while jackals eat their kidneys. Retarded evil universe. Rejecting it and all materiality is the true good. All of it is shit. Shit universe. You are constructed from atoms that were shat out of 10000 anuses.
>>188051 Wizkid, you need to understand that without suffering there is no reality, no world, no life, no You. Do you hate yourself this much?
Without the creator we wouldn't even have this discussion in the first place, because, you know…we wouldn't exist? I'm not saying life is easy, but that it is worth living despite all the shit you have to endure. There is always some joy you can derive from existence, no matter how small at the moment. If you were dead, you wouldn't even have that. >Rejecting it and all materiality is the true good Says wiz, then goes to eat some cheese burgers and to masturbate to hentai while lying in his comfy bed. Yeah, sure. Vehement anti-materialism is nothing but hypocrisy and stupidity.
>>188083 >it is worth living despite all the shit you have to endure. You only say this–nay, you only assert that suffering is necessary–because you have not experienced real suffering. From here on you can continue with your flawed arguments; I don't care.