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As a kid my family NEVER allowed me to go outside besides school which I used a school bus to go to. my dad thought if I go outside and hang out in the streets I would deal with and befriend kids who are into drugs and smoking. so he thought me staying inside in front of the TV would be far better for me. my life was basically going from the bus to school to home in front of the screen basically all the time. but even though this. I was happy staying at home and I never felt lonely or upset about it. the other kids at school found it strange and they questioned me about it sometimes. now many years after primary school I become a long-term 10 years old NEET and hikikomori. I feel that my dad's choice has affected my personality introvertness and passion for staying indoors. as I said I absolutely don't hate my father for it I am only grateful for him as he protected me from bullying and a lot of other unnecessary outdoor stuff I did not need. and I was able to stay comfy indoors. I even find it odd how my family finds it abnormal that I hate going outside now despite them being them who made me like this.
OP I am very similar. I was unable to go outside when younger in my formative years or physically isolated outside of school and spent a lot of time alone. I do not feel that lonliness people complain about so my question to you is the following: Would you have it any other way? Would you rather have been socialized and not become someone who is introverted and presumably has no interest in normalfaggotry?
Yes, I had a fucked up family. I was raised in a specific way that was designed to keep me dependent and isolated. I spent all my life on playstation, no other stimulation, actievly discouraged from going out, was driven to and from school even when I was 18 years old.
>>180576
It is child abuse to not raise your children to be independent and try to help them be capable of a wide range of skills.
>>180576
It is child abuse to not raise your children to be independent and try to help them be capable of a wide range of skills.
>>180579
Same here I feel grateful for being isolated when younger learning to enjoy my own company if you can call it that. Look at /r9k/ if you want to see what being a NEET or Hikki who cannot handle being alone is like.
Same here I feel grateful for being isolated when younger learning to enjoy my own company if you can call it that. Look at /r9k/ if you want to see what being a NEET or Hikki who cannot handle being alone is like.
Constant moving was a hallmark of my youth. So I can say I experience a traumatic, detached form of hikkimorism. I couldn't adjust to new places after a few times and a certain age. I developed acne and anti-social traits. My normie parents didn't know any better. Now I live in my car and experience a detachment you would never understand. I am someone who doesn't fit in anywhere whatsoever. I have no constance to my personality, so I can't regularly say things like, "huh, watched anime all day and cried myself to sleep :/" you are extremely fortunate to have a niche in the social hierarchy.
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And this is what the Genie concept represents.
>>180581
Moving a lot or people who I came to know like kids in the area moving (lived in desolate trailer ground so people were absent half the year and scarce after anyway) meant that I possibly grew not to attach myself to anyone. How long have you been living in your car?
Moving a lot or people who I came to know like kids in the area moving (lived in desolate trailer ground so people were absent half the year and scarce after anyway) meant that I possibly grew not to attach myself to anyone. How long have you been living in your car?
>>180583
A few weeks. I am running from the unfit and pathetic man. I am running from children and liars.
A few weeks. I am running from the unfit and pathetic man. I am running from children and liars.
i dont want to blame anyone for my personality. the fact of the matter is that i really dont like interacting with people, interpersonal experiences are always viewed extremely negatively to me, nothing will change this and i dont even want to change
but if i have to point to a single thing and identify a catalyst for whatever i've become, my parents are a safe bet. i attended over 20 different schools throughout my chilhood, and moved between 12 or so states. interesting to know there are others here in a similar situation. at a certain point you just give up trying to interact with people, as a kid it was like hey i made a friend… well this sucks now im moving away. enough of that and there is no motivation, you begin to isolate and find ways to entertain yourself
but if i have to point to a single thing and identify a catalyst for whatever i've become, my parents are a safe bet. i attended over 20 different schools throughout my chilhood, and moved between 12 or so states. interesting to know there are others here in a similar situation. at a certain point you just give up trying to interact with people, as a kid it was like hey i made a friend… well this sucks now im moving away. enough of that and there is no motivation, you begin to isolate and find ways to entertain yourself
>>180587
>numerous schools
>situation that means any kid you meet will vanish from your life over and over
>isolation and introspection
Yes it does seem to prime you for being alone and strip you from that need to socialize. I do have a question though and that is, Do you think that just because there is a lack of desire we miss out on the negative effects associated with isolation and being friendless which are documented?
>INB4 hi wizchan i'm a biologist
No studies that I know of have been done on hermits that show there is "damage" due to a lack of social connections.
>numerous schools
>situation that means any kid you meet will vanish from your life over and over
>isolation and introspection
Yes it does seem to prime you for being alone and strip you from that need to socialize. I do have a question though and that is, Do you think that just because there is a lack of desire we miss out on the negative effects associated with isolation and being friendless which are documented?
>INB4 hi wizchan i'm a biologist
No studies that I know of have been done on hermits that show there is "damage" due to a lack of social connections.
>>180590
Because it's not "damage" it's an entirely different structure of the brain that sets in and hardens.
Something you can't change without first destroying it and reassembling it mechanically.
reference: Genie
Because it's not "damage" it's an entirely different structure of the brain that sets in and hardens.
Something you can't change without first destroying it and reassembling it mechanically.
reference: Genie
>>180590
>Do you think that just because there is a lack of desire we miss out on the negative effects associated with isolation and being friendless which are documented?
i think most of the 'negative effects' are only negative when viewed from the lens of society. sure we eventually become socially retarded. is that truly negative though? as long as our brains are active and stimulated in other ways, and we can entertain ourselves, i dont think it's negative for the individual. it's just different
>Do you think that just because there is a lack of desire we miss out on the negative effects associated with isolation and being friendless which are documented?
i think most of the 'negative effects' are only negative when viewed from the lens of society. sure we eventually become socially retarded. is that truly negative though? as long as our brains are active and stimulated in other ways, and we can entertain ourselves, i dont think it's negative for the individual. it's just different
>>180600
Hence I quoted the word but to reiterate we do not know if the people who are genuinly fine being on their own suffer from the effects associated with being alone and isolated.
>>180601
I do not think we eventually become socially retarded we drift from conventional that is certain and are unable to be aware of the trends in all their forms. I have gone many years without socializing only to get forced into a situation where it was needed and was surprised with how well I could socialize.
Hence I quoted the word but to reiterate we do not know if the people who are genuinly fine being on their own suffer from the effects associated with being alone and isolated.
>>180601
I do not think we eventually become socially retarded we drift from conventional that is certain and are unable to be aware of the trends in all their forms. I have gone many years without socializing only to get forced into a situation where it was needed and was surprised with how well I could socialize.
>>180576
It's not the lack of socialization that bothers me but I do wish my parents had taught me some useful skills like learning a music instrument or carpentry or something, they were just lazy boomers who sat in front of the TV all day
It's not the lack of socialization that bothers me but I do wish my parents had taught me some useful skills like learning a music instrument or carpentry or something, they were just lazy boomers who sat in front of the TV all day
>>180603
A master gets in scene solely when the pupil is ready. And you have not looked for any YT tutorial of any of those things, did you?
The brain of a wizard is usually fogged, teach him whatever, he will always feel lazy about it while feeling he still lacks something: the torture of wanting without wanting.
It's all in the brain.
A master gets in scene solely when the pupil is ready. And you have not looked for any YT tutorial of any of those things, did you?
The brain of a wizard is usually fogged, teach him whatever, he will always feel lazy about it while feeling he still lacks something: the torture of wanting without wanting.
It's all in the brain.
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>>180607
The solution is really simple.
You can't force yourself to enjoy doing something if there are no pathways in the brain for that activity.
Yet they can be mechanically created with proper tools.
The solution is really simple.
You can't force yourself to enjoy doing something if there are no pathways in the brain for that activity.
Yet they can be mechanically created with proper tools.
I don't blame them for my avoidant introvert personality. I've come to realise that I was born that way, and nothing could have really been done to change it. I do blame them, however, for not only failing to prepare me for life, but for actively crushing any chance I may have had of making something of myself. They took me out of school very early and stopped teaching me anything past 13, which has left me so deficient in skills and knowledge that entering the job market now is just unthinkable.
>>180619
I graduated from high school and I might as well have dropped out of school at thirteen. Wouldn't make a damn difference, public education is useless.
I graduated from high school and I might as well have dropped out of school at thirteen. Wouldn't make a damn difference, public education is useless.
My parents were super strict catholics and my dad ran and runs a business throughout my whole life. all he ever cared about was if i was working for his company. Never told me to go to school or helped with anything.
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I honestly don't believe that you weren't allowed to go outside, otherwise that would be abuse on paar with Fritzl or something. With me it was the opposite, my stepmom always wanted me to go outside,and to "move around" while being in her sight, because being outside meant being healthy for her or something. I still became a neet despite my supervisors? I LIKE to believe I would have become a different person if I grew up different.. but honestly I don't think so, as I had relatives that lived away from me at my same age and had relatively relax parents, and they became more fucked up than I am, even though they had the freedom to do what they wanted.
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>>180614
When it comes to enjoying things, it's all about the subconscious expectation of a reward which ultimately requires a memory of a real experience of a reward. Your enjoyment of wizchan and the urge to check on it every 5 minutes exists because you have at some point found something interesting or funny or "rewarding" and now this memory manifests itself as motivation. You don't know what exactly you're looking for, you just /feel/ that there is something worthwhile to be had by checking this website.
One cannot learn to enjoy something simply by forcing oneself to do it. This repetition can only reliably produce memories of the act itself i.e. muscle memory, which is useful for developing skills but not necessarily enjoyment. Enjoyment, or rather more precisely, an experience of positive valence when one perceives the activity, what people would call "internal motivation", a feeling or compulsion to engage in the act itself, is learned only through the experience of a tangible reward from doing the activity itself i.e. playing an impressive violin song made your parents say they're proud of you and that experience teaches you that social validation, positive regard, self-esteem can be earned by being a good musician – after that, even the mere identity of musician produces positive valence and anything associated with the activity becomes attractive.
However, this anticipation of a reward is completely different from the rational, conscious deliberation of the possibility of a reward. One is real, tangible, experiential, instinctual, a manifestation of real memories of real experiences, and the other is merely abstract, theoretical, an unconfirmed theory, a useless daydream. The mind requires a demonstration through experience that the activity leads to a tangible reward in order to learn (or "create pathways"), people telling you that working out leads to x y z does nothing until you experience gains and compliments after a several weeks of exercise, then it becomes real, then it becomes something you anticipate and what creates that positive valence which makes you "motivated" to engage in the activity.
Now, when it comes to learning to enjoy socializing, this requires an experience or several of them, where a tangible reward was derived through the act of "socializing". An inability to develop a taste for socializing is usually due to lack of social skills and other problems which make socializing punishing and therefore teach your mind the opposite, that people, conversations, being seen and experienced as a social being will inevitably lead to something horrible – this is what results in anxiety and aversion to the social world.
OP blaming his parents is not completely unfounded, as by having limited exposure to socializing itself, he was denied the possibility of developing a taste for it. However, in adulthood, what creates the barrier is probably the lack of social skills and the memories of the few social experiences that were negative. One can overcome that, but it requires more elegance than simply throwing yourself into a social situation, as further negative experiences only reinforce the person's current learning.
When it comes to enjoying things, it's all about the subconscious expectation of a reward which ultimately requires a memory of a real experience of a reward. Your enjoyment of wizchan and the urge to check on it every 5 minutes exists because you have at some point found something interesting or funny or "rewarding" and now this memory manifests itself as motivation. You don't know what exactly you're looking for, you just /feel/ that there is something worthwhile to be had by checking this website.
One cannot learn to enjoy something simply by forcing oneself to do it. This repetition can only reliably produce memories of the act itself i.e. muscle memory, which is useful for developing skills but not necessarily enjoyment. Enjoyment, or rather more precisely, an experience of positive valence when one perceives the activity, what people would call "internal motivation", a feeling or compulsion to engage in the act itself, is learned only through the experience of a tangible reward from doing the activity itself i.e. playing an impressive violin song made your parents say they're proud of you and that experience teaches you that social validation, positive regard, self-esteem can be earned by being a good musician – after that, even the mere identity of musician produces positive valence and anything associated with the activity becomes attractive.
However, this anticipation of a reward is completely different from the rational, conscious deliberation of the possibility of a reward. One is real, tangible, experiential, instinctual, a manifestation of real memories of real experiences, and the other is merely abstract, theoretical, an unconfirmed theory, a useless daydream. The mind requires a demonstration through experience that the activity leads to a tangible reward in order to learn (or "create pathways"), people telling you that working out leads to x y z does nothing until you experience gains and compliments after a several weeks of exercise, then it becomes real, then it becomes something you anticipate and what creates that positive valence which makes you "motivated" to engage in the activity.
Now, when it comes to learning to enjoy socializing, this requires an experience or several of them, where a tangible reward was derived through the act of "socializing". An inability to develop a taste for socializing is usually due to lack of social skills and other problems which make socializing punishing and therefore teach your mind the opposite, that people, conversations, being seen and experienced as a social being will inevitably lead to something horrible – this is what results in anxiety and aversion to the social world.
OP blaming his parents is not completely unfounded, as by having limited exposure to socializing itself, he was denied the possibility of developing a taste for it. However, in adulthood, what creates the barrier is probably the lack of social skills and the memories of the few social experiences that were negative. One can overcome that, but it requires more elegance than simply throwing yourself into a social situation, as further negative experiences only reinforce the person's current learning.
>>180631
The underlying premise is very simple, it's something most people know intuitively and can understand from "folk wisdom", but a precise articulation like this is much more interesting and useful (in my opinion). "Motivation", "laziness", "lack of drive" and so on are all inane concepts at this point, that are used to describe our general tendencies, but do not offer any immediate way to think or act about them.
How do you make yourself motivated? The question is ill-formed and therefore, useless. But breaking down the subjective experience of "motivation" to its components, then finding ways of explaining them through probable theories leads to a mechanical understanding of your own experience that can be reverse-engineered. The understanding that memories of positive experiences are what produce motivation makes it immediately obvious what exactly one needs to aim for in order to gain more motivation, or the opposite. Experimentation also becomes viable, as mechanical theories can be tested.
Anyway, I guess I just like these "convoluted walls-of-text", but I can understand that it's not particularly attractive to people that don't read psychological literature much.
The underlying premise is very simple, it's something most people know intuitively and can understand from "folk wisdom", but a precise articulation like this is much more interesting and useful (in my opinion). "Motivation", "laziness", "lack of drive" and so on are all inane concepts at this point, that are used to describe our general tendencies, but do not offer any immediate way to think or act about them.
How do you make yourself motivated? The question is ill-formed and therefore, useless. But breaking down the subjective experience of "motivation" to its components, then finding ways of explaining them through probable theories leads to a mechanical understanding of your own experience that can be reverse-engineered. The understanding that memories of positive experiences are what produce motivation makes it immediately obvious what exactly one needs to aim for in order to gain more motivation, or the opposite. Experimentation also becomes viable, as mechanical theories can be tested.
Anyway, I guess I just like these "convoluted walls-of-text", but I can understand that it's not particularly attractive to people that don't read psychological literature much.
>>180632
You apply very dense rhetoric to very basic psychological concepts. I get it, I like sounding smart too, but just some constructive advice, honestly.
You apply very dense rhetoric to very basic psychological concepts. I get it, I like sounding smart too, but just some constructive advice, honestly.
>>180633
Like I said, I like precise language. It's not immediately obvious what people mean by various so-called "basic" psychological concepts. If this wasn't helpful or interesting to you, then move on. No need to show off how easy going and cool you are because you want to talk about complex subjects but somehow avoid "rhetorically dense" technical language. I happen to think that if people want to discuss a complex subject that they should learn the words and define what they mean, not lower the quality of the discussion to an "explain like I'm five" subreddit post.
Like I said, I like precise language. It's not immediately obvious what people mean by various so-called "basic" psychological concepts. If this wasn't helpful or interesting to you, then move on. No need to show off how easy going and cool you are because you want to talk about complex subjects but somehow avoid "rhetorically dense" technical language. I happen to think that if people want to discuss a complex subject that they should learn the words and define what they mean, not lower the quality of the discussion to an "explain like I'm five" subreddit post.
>>180634
But that's the irony of regurgitating widely known and incredibly simple concepts. Every layman is aware of classical conditioning, reward = good, so do hard work to get good. The fact that I called you out on masturbating doesn't doesn't mean I want TIL-tier reddit posts.
But that's the irony of regurgitating widely known and incredibly simple concepts. Every layman is aware of classical conditioning, reward = good, so do hard work to get good. The fact that I called you out on masturbating doesn't doesn't mean I want TIL-tier reddit posts.
>>180635
You're the reason every discussion of quantum mechanics is reduced to shitty analogies about cats and boxes. Why yes, the cat is both dead and alive, everybody knows that! Yet the finer nuance of theory is lost on anyone that doesn't actually delve into the mathematics of it, simply because no one wants to be "that guy" and start talking about wave functions and be outed as a, golly gosh smarty pants!
"Reward = good" is precisely the kind of bullshit that people learn using wikipedia articles or r/eli5 posts, yet they've never read Skinner or understand behaviorism as an approach. My post was about examining the phenomenology of motivation, the actual features of internal experience that are immediately obvious to anyone i.e. the anticipatory feeling, and trying to directly provide a mechanical explanation of its origin i.e. memories. Your mind immediately jumped to some surface level understanding of classical conditioning because of the word "reward" and gave you the perfect excuse to dismiss a wall of text because it was probably much better summarized in whatever short snippet you read on the internet. The precise problem people like you have is understanding nuance because everything you know is just summaries of summaries of summaries, "regurgitated" when needed to excuse any requirement of effort on your part to understand what is actually being discussed.
Even if everything I've talked about is completely obvious to you, it's simply good practice to be precise when talking about a complex subject, especially something like psychology which seems obvious on the surface because many of the words have gone into common parlance, yet nobody really defines what they mean by "motivation". "Dude, it's just what makes you wanna do things and stuff! Also, pathways in the brain or something."
You're the reason every discussion of quantum mechanics is reduced to shitty analogies about cats and boxes. Why yes, the cat is both dead and alive, everybody knows that! Yet the finer nuance of theory is lost on anyone that doesn't actually delve into the mathematics of it, simply because no one wants to be "that guy" and start talking about wave functions and be outed as a, golly gosh smarty pants!
"Reward = good" is precisely the kind of bullshit that people learn using wikipedia articles or r/eli5 posts, yet they've never read Skinner or understand behaviorism as an approach. My post was about examining the phenomenology of motivation, the actual features of internal experience that are immediately obvious to anyone i.e. the anticipatory feeling, and trying to directly provide a mechanical explanation of its origin i.e. memories. Your mind immediately jumped to some surface level understanding of classical conditioning because of the word "reward" and gave you the perfect excuse to dismiss a wall of text because it was probably much better summarized in whatever short snippet you read on the internet. The precise problem people like you have is understanding nuance because everything you know is just summaries of summaries of summaries, "regurgitated" when needed to excuse any requirement of effort on your part to understand what is actually being discussed.
Even if everything I've talked about is completely obvious to you, it's simply good practice to be precise when talking about a complex subject, especially something like psychology which seems obvious on the surface because many of the words have gone into common parlance, yet nobody really defines what they mean by "motivation". "Dude, it's just what makes you wanna do things and stuff! Also, pathways in the brain or something."
>>180636
Don't start crying on me, please. It took you 30 minutes to not bring up any good points. I'm not convinced that complex language leads to a beter understanding. Have you ever read the majority of philosophy? It's so convoluted it feels empty. It also applies to this site's musical taste, have you heard the music they post? I might have found a few actual good songs, but they're mostly tarded noise trash. Anyways, I understand what you're trying to say, but even college professors would prefer a simple explanation that doesn't require an hour to interpret like a Nietzsche paper.
Don't start crying on me, please. It took you 30 minutes to not bring up any good points. I'm not convinced that complex language leads to a beter understanding. Have you ever read the majority of philosophy? It's so convoluted it feels empty. It also applies to this site's musical taste, have you heard the music they post? I might have found a few actual good songs, but they're mostly tarded noise trash. Anyways, I understand what you're trying to say, but even college professors would prefer a simple explanation that doesn't require an hour to interpret like a Nietzsche paper.
>>180636
And poetry? Beautiful words? That, my philosopher friend, is something entirely different. Looking at your walls-of-text doesn't elicit a catharsis from me, nay, what I see is Nietzsche rubbing his cock in my face.
And poetry? Beautiful words? That, my philosopher friend, is something entirely different. Looking at your walls-of-text doesn't elicit a catharsis from me, nay, what I see is Nietzsche rubbing his cock in my face.
>>180637
>an hour to interpret like a Nietzsche paper
I should really stop writing in elaborate allegories when trying to explain simple concepts, my bad. I am but a pseud and you're such an everyday normal guy that ain't afraid to say it like it really is! Them professors and phee-luh-see-phors are ruining America I tell ya!
>an hour to interpret like a Nietzsche paper
I should really stop writing in elaborate allegories when trying to explain simple concepts, my bad. I am but a pseud and you're such an everyday normal guy that ain't afraid to say it like it really is! Them professors and phee-luh-see-phors are ruining America I tell ya!
>>180639
Um, thanks for the aspergers, but I'm good man. Anyways, I hope you've learned your lesson.
Um, thanks for the aspergers, but I'm good man. Anyways, I hope you've learned your lesson.
>>180640
So, uh, when does your tranny posting shift start again? It's good to see you're doing something productive like reading philosophy when you're not hunting down imaginary transvestites on the more fun boards.
So, uh, when does your tranny posting shift start again? It's good to see you're doing something productive like reading philosophy when you're not hunting down imaginary transvestites on the more fun boards.
>>180642
Oh no, well I guess there's at least two disagreeable assholes that starts fights about inane shit like this and happen to have a very surface level understanding of philosophy or really any other subject.
>>180643
Who the fuck tries to be witty when discussing complex topics seriously? Keep your platitudes to yourself, retard.
Oh no, well I guess there's at least two disagreeable assholes that starts fights about inane shit like this and happen to have a very surface level understanding of philosophy or really any other subject.
>>180643
Who the fuck tries to be witty when discussing complex topics seriously? Keep your platitudes to yourself, retard.
>>180644
Inability to interpret the word "wit" outside of conventional definition. Wit can be charming or interesting too.
Inability to interpret the word "wit" outside of conventional definition. Wit can be charming or interesting too.
>>180630
Hmmm that's interesting, I'm completely new to these stuff, what would you recommend for someone like me to read to understand the basics and later more advanced concepts.
I always wanted to create music but I never had the skills to materialize what was in my mind and I never had any positive memories from creating music or playing an instrument yet there are some times that I get weirdly motivated and confidant that all I do is playing and learning music but this never amounted to anything cause it only lasts for 2-3 weeks so I never got anywhere cause I've never been consistent enough.
On the other hand I've had tons of positive memories of people telling me how talented I was for programming but I was never interested in it and even when I had to do something for a project or whatever I just couldn't bring myself to do anything.
how does that work?
Hmmm that's interesting, I'm completely new to these stuff, what would you recommend for someone like me to read to understand the basics and later more advanced concepts.
I always wanted to create music but I never had the skills to materialize what was in my mind and I never had any positive memories from creating music or playing an instrument yet there are some times that I get weirdly motivated and confidant that all I do is playing and learning music but this never amounted to anything cause it only lasts for 2-3 weeks so I never got anywhere cause I've never been consistent enough.
On the other hand I've had tons of positive memories of people telling me how talented I was for programming but I was never interested in it and even when I had to do something for a project or whatever I just couldn't bring myself to do anything.
how does that work?
>>180637
Is very simple, if you dislike effortposting so much, you're free to leave from here to a normalgroid website that is more to your liking.
Is very simple, if you dislike effortposting so much, you're free to leave from here to a normalgroid website that is more to your liking.
>>180649
Nah, I already took an intro to psychology class, sorry I don't appreciate it as much as you do.
Nah, I already took an intro to psychology class, sorry I don't appreciate it as much as you do.
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>>180646
It's hard to speculate on why you feel the way you feel because the mind is a dynamic system that reacts to an everchanging environment. Also, rarely do specific, episodic memories come up attached to feelings. At best, people can only rationalize their feelings using cues from the environment, a certain understanding of how the world works or some completely private magical thinking. It seems to me that the verbal, conscious part of the mind is somewhat disconnected from the more instinctual, older system that communicates using feelings, urges, hunches and so on.
The anticipatory feeling of reward or punishment is not conscious or controllable, it's the result of automatic, unconscious processes that eventually manifest salience and valence in your perception attached to certain objects based on a shitload of memories. For example, it quickly communicates that this particular dog is dangerous by making it stand out to you and giving you an anticipation that something terrible will happen, alongside your conscious, rational cognitive abilities you can deduce what the threat is and react to it by following up with a plan to escape or fight it.
Not everything is as dramatic as that, however. Everyday objects in your perception still have a bias in the form of salience and valence, and will influence what you notice and care about. You can make a conscious effort to pay attention to your perception and make note of its biases and this will train your meta-cognitive abilities and give you an intuitive understanding of how to change your own experience.
When it comes to motivation, certain activities will seem more salient and attractive, but rarely do people have extremely compulsive activities. Motivation is connected to basic needs and if one activity satisfies a particular itch, then similar activities might be less interesting to you until you exhaust the initial one. You mentioned being praised for programming, yet finding very little motivation to do it, perhaps because you have satisfied your social needs in other ways. Sometimes, extreme compulsion can be a manifestation of an inability to satisfy a need in any other way. Some people are driven towards success in music, programming, science and so on, because this is the only way for them to feel some amount of self-esteem and belonging in the world.
Anyway, I'm rambling too much and I don't think I can bring this to a satisfactory conclusion. Your experience in any given moment is dynamic and is rarely the result of a single memory or two, unless they're extremely emotionally charged i.e. traumatic memories that might result in vivid flashbacks and severely biased perception. If your goal is to change motivation, then aiming for positive experiences that satisfy basic needs through the activity generally work, even with a very brute-force "conditioning" approach that just repeats the activity until it "sticks".
Also, I don't have any specific recommendations on this stuff since it's a combination of many theories and my own thoughts. I have this chart I made for psychotherapy, which is what initially got me interested into psychology, with various approaches and perspectives on the mind, none of them complete on their own, but you can take away something from each of them.
It's hard to speculate on why you feel the way you feel because the mind is a dynamic system that reacts to an everchanging environment. Also, rarely do specific, episodic memories come up attached to feelings. At best, people can only rationalize their feelings using cues from the environment, a certain understanding of how the world works or some completely private magical thinking. It seems to me that the verbal, conscious part of the mind is somewhat disconnected from the more instinctual, older system that communicates using feelings, urges, hunches and so on.
The anticipatory feeling of reward or punishment is not conscious or controllable, it's the result of automatic, unconscious processes that eventually manifest salience and valence in your perception attached to certain objects based on a shitload of memories. For example, it quickly communicates that this particular dog is dangerous by making it stand out to you and giving you an anticipation that something terrible will happen, alongside your conscious, rational cognitive abilities you can deduce what the threat is and react to it by following up with a plan to escape or fight it.
Not everything is as dramatic as that, however. Everyday objects in your perception still have a bias in the form of salience and valence, and will influence what you notice and care about. You can make a conscious effort to pay attention to your perception and make note of its biases and this will train your meta-cognitive abilities and give you an intuitive understanding of how to change your own experience.
When it comes to motivation, certain activities will seem more salient and attractive, but rarely do people have extremely compulsive activities. Motivation is connected to basic needs and if one activity satisfies a particular itch, then similar activities might be less interesting to you until you exhaust the initial one. You mentioned being praised for programming, yet finding very little motivation to do it, perhaps because you have satisfied your social needs in other ways. Sometimes, extreme compulsion can be a manifestation of an inability to satisfy a need in any other way. Some people are driven towards success in music, programming, science and so on, because this is the only way for them to feel some amount of self-esteem and belonging in the world.
Anyway, I'm rambling too much and I don't think I can bring this to a satisfactory conclusion. Your experience in any given moment is dynamic and is rarely the result of a single memory or two, unless they're extremely emotionally charged i.e. traumatic memories that might result in vivid flashbacks and severely biased perception. If your goal is to change motivation, then aiming for positive experiences that satisfy basic needs through the activity generally work, even with a very brute-force "conditioning" approach that just repeats the activity until it "sticks".
Also, I don't have any specific recommendations on this stuff since it's a combination of many theories and my own thoughts. I have this chart I made for psychotherapy, which is what initially got me interested into psychology, with various approaches and perspectives on the mind, none of them complete on their own, but you can take away something from each of them.
>>180607
That's true as an adult but not so much when I was a child, I absorbed new things a lot easier back then.
That's true as an adult but not so much when I was a child, I absorbed new things a lot easier back then.
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>>180574
Same it was just my mother though. She was super overprotective. Been a hikki for 8 going on 9 years now. People(my family and people online) always ask arent you lonely dont you want a gf? My honest answer is no I dont desire human contact at all really. I also hate it when people touch me I avoid it if I can. Also does anyone else talk to them self a lot? Like not out loud but in your head? I have full on arguments with myself in my head.
Same it was just my mother though. She was super overprotective. Been a hikki for 8 going on 9 years now. People(my family and people online) always ask arent you lonely dont you want a gf? My honest answer is no I dont desire human contact at all really. I also hate it when people touch me I avoid it if I can. Also does anyone else talk to them self a lot? Like not out loud but in your head? I have full on arguments with myself in my head.
>>180791
I also talk with myself a lot but its mostly silent when there are people around also its really impressive you’re NEET hikikimori for straight 8 years I’m NEET hikikimori for just a year but I already want to kill myself
I also talk with myself a lot but its mostly silent when there are people around also its really impressive you’re NEET hikikimori for straight 8 years I’m NEET hikikimori for just a year but I already want to kill myself
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>>180823
Its nice to know other people also talk to themselves I thought I was going crazy or something(I may still be who knows). How? being a neet hikki is easy how do you want to die already? I just spend all day posting various places, watchin shit and playing games. Its what I've done all those years.
Its nice to know other people also talk to themselves I thought I was going crazy or something(I may still be who knows). How? being a neet hikki is easy how do you want to die already? I just spend all day posting various places, watchin shit and playing games. Its what I've done all those years.
>>180824
Nothing gives me enjoyement anymore, games , videos or streams I always think about my future my parents are getting old and they have chronic health stuff and I really don’t know what will happen to me after them I never worked and have an useless degree.When I did reach 28 all I care now is these things I wanna kill myself because of that.
Nothing gives me enjoyement anymore, games , videos or streams I always think about my future my parents are getting old and they have chronic health stuff and I really don’t know what will happen to me after them I never worked and have an useless degree.When I did reach 28 all I care now is these things I wanna kill myself because of that.
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>>180825
Yea I kinda feel that too. I also argue with myself in my head so I wont be lost when I have to argue with other posters.
>>180826
I dont really get that for some reason. If I get bored of my game I will play another one. If I get bored of watching something I will just watch something else. Yea I know what you mean there so I just avoid thinking about the future. Sure its a bad idea but I dont care for some reason.
Yea I kinda feel that too. I also argue with myself in my head so I wont be lost when I have to argue with other posters.
>>180826
I dont really get that for some reason. If I get bored of my game I will play another one. If I get bored of watching something I will just watch something else. Yea I know what you mean there so I just avoid thinking about the future. Sure its a bad idea but I dont care for some reason.
>>180574
>I even find it odd how my family finds it abnormal that I hate going outside now despite them being them who made me like this.
sounds like typical retard parents. fucking your kid over in one way then being surprised when that effects them for the rest of their life instead of just magically breaking out of it at a certain age.
>I even find it odd how my family finds it abnormal that I hate going outside now despite them being them who made me like this.
sounds like typical retard parents. fucking your kid over in one way then being surprised when that effects them for the rest of their life instead of just magically breaking out of it at a certain age.
>>180574
How did your dad's decision protect you from bullying if you still had contact with contaminants[/s]other children at school?
How did your dad's decision protect you from bullying if you still had contact with contaminants[/s]other children at school?
>>180574
yeah it was similar with my family. my parents were terrible and dumped me off on my grandma, who basically never let me go outside because she couldn't be fucked to go outside and supervise me (in fairness she was pretty frail and the climate is brutal here) and because i had health problems (but they weren't that bad so i think that was just an excuse). she also never let me have any kids from school over or visit their houses. so, naturally i just turned into being a fat introvert that found it more comfortable at home and found my entertainment in video games/the internet. now my family ENDLESSLY gives me shit for "playin' those damn video games all night" (i don't even enjoy or play video games anymore). i mean what the fuck did they expect to happen? i WANTED to go outside as a kid but wasn't fucking allowed, so fuck off and leave me alone
yeah it was similar with my family. my parents were terrible and dumped me off on my grandma, who basically never let me go outside because she couldn't be fucked to go outside and supervise me (in fairness she was pretty frail and the climate is brutal here) and because i had health problems (but they weren't that bad so i think that was just an excuse). she also never let me have any kids from school over or visit their houses. so, naturally i just turned into being a fat introvert that found it more comfortable at home and found my entertainment in video games/the internet. now my family ENDLESSLY gives me shit for "playin' those damn video games all night" (i don't even enjoy or play video games anymore). i mean what the fuck did they expect to happen? i WANTED to go outside as a kid but wasn't fucking allowed, so fuck off and leave me alone
>>182118
>my parents were terrible and dumped me off on my grandma, who basically never let me go outside because she couldn't be fucked to go outside and supervise me
seeing the same thing going on with my parents and their grandchildren. they just can't be arsed to go outside or let them do things on their own. their parents also are the overprotective and somewhat lazy and spineless
i get that raising children is hard, but come on
>my parents were terrible and dumped me off on my grandma, who basically never let me go outside because she couldn't be fucked to go outside and supervise me
seeing the same thing going on with my parents and their grandchildren. they just can't be arsed to go outside or let them do things on their own. their parents also are the overprotective and somewhat lazy and spineless
i get that raising children is hard, but come on
My parents thought I was a delinquent for some reason, they didn't notice or they didn't want to notice that I was extremely shy and scared of things, so they would often beat me for "disobeying" them when I was too scared to do something. As you can imagine beating a kid that's already extremely sensitive and shy doesn't help at all. My parents also have a thing where they always tell me I can't do anything right, even now they won't even let me do simple chores because I won't do it "right", that doesn't really help with self-esteem.
>>180574
I grew up in a pretty upper-class neighborhood where there were hardly any kids my age and nobody ever really played outside. I don't even have a preference for staying indoors, I just never really got invited to hang out with people outside of school. Now that I'm 27 I have hardly any real conversational skills. Like even if someone invited me out somewhere, I have no idea what I'd even talk about because nothing interesting ever happens to me.
I grew up in a pretty upper-class neighborhood where there were hardly any kids my age and nobody ever really played outside. I don't even have a preference for staying indoors, I just never really got invited to hang out with people outside of school. Now that I'm 27 I have hardly any real conversational skills. Like even if someone invited me out somewhere, I have no idea what I'd even talk about because nothing interesting ever happens to me.
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>>180574
Absolutely. I feel sad every time i watch\read any media dealing with childhood because it always portrays kids and teens going outside without any supervision and getting into adventures, which just reminds me of how much of a sheltered loser i was. My youth was slideshow but a mesh of internet simulacra and fiction.
>I even find it odd how my family finds it abnormal that I hate going outside now despite them being them who made me like this.
When i confronted mine some months ago about it they were like "but we were actually fine with you going outside, you should've just disobeyed us :^)"
Fuck them.
Absolutely. I feel sad every time i watch\read any media dealing with childhood because it always portrays kids and teens going outside without any supervision and getting into adventures, which just reminds me of how much of a sheltered loser i was. My youth was slideshow but a mesh of internet simulacra and fiction.
>I even find it odd how my family finds it abnormal that I hate going outside now despite them being them who made me like this.
When i confronted mine some months ago about it they were like "but we were actually fine with you going outside, you should've just disobeyed us :^)"
Fuck them.
>>182607
Same for me. But mine would say even now that it was too dangerous and people are crazy for letting their kids outside. They see kids having fun outside riding bicycle with their friends and comment that those kids must have horrible parents.
Same for me. But mine would say even now that it was too dangerous and people are crazy for letting their kids outside. They see kids having fun outside riding bicycle with their friends and comment that those kids must have horrible parents.
my parents are strange, I remember my mom following me around in her car if I went outside by myself, and they still tell me that people online are pedophiles trying to have sex with me
I never liked going outside with the neighbor kids so I never did, I'm not sure if my parents caused that or not
I never liked going outside with the neighbor kids so I never did, I'm not sure if my parents caused that or not
>>182622
>I never liked going outside with the neighbor kids so I never did, I'm not sure if my parents caused that or not
It is likely that they did cause it. For me I remember them being extremely critical and saying bad things about everyone else, so I became the same way and internalised that dislike toward others. I only realised this in my late 20s: that kids hear everything parents say and internalise those beliefs. As a child, if your parent thiks it's bad for you to go outside, it is easy that you start to feel the same way. Children are extremely malleable.
>I never liked going outside with the neighbor kids so I never did, I'm not sure if my parents caused that or not
It is likely that they did cause it. For me I remember them being extremely critical and saying bad things about everyone else, so I became the same way and internalised that dislike toward others. I only realised this in my late 20s: that kids hear everything parents say and internalise those beliefs. As a child, if your parent thiks it's bad for you to go outside, it is easy that you start to feel the same way. Children are extremely malleable.
>>182607
>you should've just disobeyed us :^)
Holy shit, this logic drives me up the fucking wall. I've heard mroe and more boomers falling back on it too, fuck.
>you should've just disobeyed us :^)
Holy shit, this logic drives me up the fucking wall. I've heard mroe and more boomers falling back on it too, fuck.
>>182634
Oh yeah that makes sense, when I was a kid I had sort of strange interests for a boy and I remember overhearing my parents poking fun at things I was interested in so I never pursued those things, it’s quite sad now that I think about it, because now I realize my parents aren’t right about most things
Oh yeah that makes sense, when I was a kid I had sort of strange interests for a boy and I remember overhearing my parents poking fun at things I was interested in so I never pursued those things, it’s quite sad now that I think about it, because now I realize my parents aren’t right about most things
>>182642
This. I think its hilarious too, that my parents used to always say "you'll find out we were right when you grow up!". But instead, the older I get, the more I realize just how wrong they really were. I also find it kind of disturbing how people in their 60s can still maintain their ridiculous, naive, child-like view of the world, and never stop to question themselves. Its crazy to see boomers live their whole lives and never even learn anything.
This. I think its hilarious too, that my parents used to always say "you'll find out we were right when you grow up!". But instead, the older I get, the more I realize just how wrong they really were. I also find it kind of disturbing how people in their 60s can still maintain their ridiculous, naive, child-like view of the world, and never stop to question themselves. Its crazy to see boomers live their whole lives and never even learn anything.
>>182649
one of the things that made me really insecure was my dad mentioning that wearing any underwear except boxers was gay, it wasn't until I was 19 I finally got real underwear and couldn't believe I wore that uncomfortable crap so long just because my dad is an idiot
one of the things that made me really insecure was my dad mentioning that wearing any underwear except boxers was gay, it wasn't until I was 19 I finally got real underwear and couldn't believe I wore that uncomfortable crap so long just because my dad is an idiot
>>182652
It's hard to understand this stuff as a child because as a child you think adults are always right.
I mean, I'm a 90 iq retard, but my father is like 75. An actual mouthbreather.
The only reason he ever procreated is because literally anybody with a pulse could get a mining job in his youth and succubi needed money from men.
The world would be better off if I wasn't born at all.
Also, your example is precisely the kind of "advice" he gave me. He's just a real life version of a braindead facebook troll.
(He still refuses to learn how to use the internet because it's "pointless" and "owned by Russia", the latter doesn't even make any logical sense)
It's hard to understand this stuff as a child because as a child you think adults are always right.
I mean, I'm a 90 iq retard, but my father is like 75. An actual mouthbreather.
The only reason he ever procreated is because literally anybody with a pulse could get a mining job in his youth and succubi needed money from men.
The world would be better off if I wasn't born at all.
Also, your example is precisely the kind of "advice" he gave me. He's just a real life version of a braindead facebook troll.
(He still refuses to learn how to use the internet because it's "pointless" and "owned by Russia", the latter doesn't even make any logical sense)
>>182654
This is largely how I feel about it as well. My parents only reproduced because they were basically told to do so. It was the cultural norm and what the previous generation pushed boomers to do.
My parents had me in their mid-late 30s. A big mistake in terms of reproduction. Hell, my mom even had a miscarriage before she had me. If that's not nature telling you "its too late, stop while you're ahead", I don't know what is. Of course if you ever try and bring any of this up to them, they will write it off and come up with any excuse they can to deflect the blame.
This is largely how I feel about it as well. My parents only reproduced because they were basically told to do so. It was the cultural norm and what the previous generation pushed boomers to do.
My parents had me in their mid-late 30s. A big mistake in terms of reproduction. Hell, my mom even had a miscarriage before she had me. If that's not nature telling you "its too late, stop while you're ahead", I don't know what is. Of course if you ever try and bring any of this up to them, they will write it off and come up with any excuse they can to deflect the blame.
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>>180574
>>182656
I'm a 34 year old hapa, half Japanese, half white. My mother made her first child, my older sister at age 32, and me at age 34. Not a smart idea, she most likely just married my father because she was already too old to marry by Japanese standards and she wanted that green card.
I was socially outcasted in childhood, largely because I was poor and I was surrounded by whites and Mexicans. And I'm still outcasted by those groups, it just gets worse the older you get, most people would rather just hang out with their own race than a random hapa.
I mostly just went to school, then came straight home and sat in front of the screen. I did have a few good memories with others like going to the comic store to play Yu-Gi-Oh cards in my late high-school years.
This really is the fate of a lot of hapas in the US. An Asian tiger mother who just wants their kids to stay inside and study all the time. And a useless beta male father who refuses to teach his children anything. That's what my father was, unemployed for 39 years. Despite having nothing but free time, he hardly spent any of it with his children, and still doesn't.
I really missed out on so much in life, largely because I'm a hapa. Right now, all I want to do is move to Hawaii to get to enjoy life for once, see what life is like NOT being a minority.
>>182656
I'm a 34 year old hapa, half Japanese, half white. My mother made her first child, my older sister at age 32, and me at age 34. Not a smart idea, she most likely just married my father because she was already too old to marry by Japanese standards and she wanted that green card.
I was socially outcasted in childhood, largely because I was poor and I was surrounded by whites and Mexicans. And I'm still outcasted by those groups, it just gets worse the older you get, most people would rather just hang out with their own race than a random hapa.
I mostly just went to school, then came straight home and sat in front of the screen. I did have a few good memories with others like going to the comic store to play Yu-Gi-Oh cards in my late high-school years.
This really is the fate of a lot of hapas in the US. An Asian tiger mother who just wants their kids to stay inside and study all the time. And a useless beta male father who refuses to teach his children anything. That's what my father was, unemployed for 39 years. Despite having nothing but free time, he hardly spent any of it with his children, and still doesn't.
I really missed out on so much in life, largely because I'm a hapa. Right now, all I want to do is move to Hawaii to get to enjoy life for once, see what life is like NOT being a minority.
>>182657
I had the same experience except I'm nordic/euromutt mix in a part of the US that is predominantly spanish and black, also had smothering mom from another country and beta american dad that didn't do much for me, he didnt even teach me how to shave, my mom did, I don't know if it is a hapa thing or a thing where mom wants a green card and marries some loser
I had the same experience except I'm nordic/euromutt mix in a part of the US that is predominantly spanish and black, also had smothering mom from another country and beta american dad that didn't do much for me, he didnt even teach me how to shave, my mom did, I don't know if it is a hapa thing or a thing where mom wants a green card and marries some loser
I hate my parents and almost all of my family, but the older I get the harder I find it to actually blame them for anything. Despite being walking trash, it's not like they were or are malicious or anything. Just grossly incompetent and outrageously low IQ. I don't blame them for anything, but good lord I am looking forward to being alone.
Freud is one of the worst things to happen to the west. you hear a little of him and now people have a whole explanation as to why they are losers or displeased with themselves. the paradox OP is how could you know all this shit and still be the way you are? You are not enlightened.
All these people complaining about being sheltered in your youth…
You know I personally was a very 'free range' child and spent a ton of time outside the home growing up. My father was very abusive and cruel to me, so from a young age I would spend as much time away from home as possible and usually only went home to sleep (sometimes). My parents hated me and did not give a shit about me.
During my youth (a fairly long time ago now), I had tons and tons of social experience. I got into all kinds of trouble. Drifted around different cities, off and on homeless, living in my car, you get the idea…
The point is, my developmental years were far more social and adventurous than the average person.
But guess what? I'm still a wiz and I'm still here. Being an asocial recluse is in my nature. I was destined to be this way.
One of the main things I learned from my social experiences in my youth is that I don't derive pleasure from human relationships and socialization, and that involving people in your life is nearly always a net negative.
Somebody who is naturally inclined to socialization will pursue that regardless of their childhood, and the opposite is true for wizards.
I can certainly understand blaming your parents for other things, but being asocial seems like a character trait that you are born with. I find it very strange that someone would attribute that aspect of themselves to the way they were raised.
You know I personally was a very 'free range' child and spent a ton of time outside the home growing up. My father was very abusive and cruel to me, so from a young age I would spend as much time away from home as possible and usually only went home to sleep (sometimes). My parents hated me and did not give a shit about me.
During my youth (a fairly long time ago now), I had tons and tons of social experience. I got into all kinds of trouble. Drifted around different cities, off and on homeless, living in my car, you get the idea…
The point is, my developmental years were far more social and adventurous than the average person.
But guess what? I'm still a wiz and I'm still here. Being an asocial recluse is in my nature. I was destined to be this way.
One of the main things I learned from my social experiences in my youth is that I don't derive pleasure from human relationships and socialization, and that involving people in your life is nearly always a net negative.
Somebody who is naturally inclined to socialization will pursue that regardless of their childhood, and the opposite is true for wizards.
I can certainly understand blaming your parents for other things, but being asocial seems like a character trait that you are born with. I find it very strange that someone would attribute that aspect of themselves to the way they were raised.
>>183133
>>183133
>But guess what? I'm still a wiz and I'm still here. Being an asocial recluse is in my nature. I was destined to be this way.
>One of the main things I learned from my social experiences in my youth is that I don't derive pleasure from human relationships and socialization, and that involving people in your life is nearly always a net negative.
You are just fucked up in a different way. You just said yourself that frmo your experiences you learned that people in your life is a net negative, which follows from how you said your parents were abusive and hated you. There is not a single human that is not largely the result of their upbringing. There is no way to deny this if you look at research or spend any time with kids (or kittens for that matter). Genetics can certainly make a huge impact too, not denying that.
>>183133
>But guess what? I'm still a wiz and I'm still here. Being an asocial recluse is in my nature. I was destined to be this way.
>One of the main things I learned from my social experiences in my youth is that I don't derive pleasure from human relationships and socialization, and that involving people in your life is nearly always a net negative.
You are just fucked up in a different way. You just said yourself that frmo your experiences you learned that people in your life is a net negative, which follows from how you said your parents were abusive and hated you. There is not a single human that is not largely the result of their upbringing. There is no way to deny this if you look at research or spend any time with kids (or kittens for that matter). Genetics can certainly make a huge impact too, not denying that.
>>183139
>You are just fucked up in a different way.
Fair, you're definitely not wrong about that.
I just think that people who crave social contact would disobey their parents' wishes if it was something they truly desired.
It seems like some people ITT are trying to blame others for their own intrinsic character traits that they dislike for some reason.
>You are just fucked up in a different way.
Fair, you're definitely not wrong about that.
I just think that people who crave social contact would disobey their parents' wishes if it was something they truly desired.
It seems like some people ITT are trying to blame others for their own intrinsic character traits that they dislike for some reason.
>>183141
Your genetics come from your parents too. At best you can say it was a random mutation.
And your parents can blame their parents, and so on
There is no point where you are at fault for who you are. Despite this, society plays sick mind games with emotions like shame and guilt, so it helps to realise that those games are fake. Some people can find a sense of peace this way and be freed from some suffering
Your genetics come from your parents too. At best you can say it was a random mutation.
And your parents can blame their parents, and so on
There is no point where you are at fault for who you are. Despite this, society plays sick mind games with emotions like shame and guilt, so it helps to realise that those games are fake. Some people can find a sense of peace this way and be freed from some suffering
>>182607
Same. Because of this i've decided to take the Blindpill and started consuming as little media as possible. Sold my TV, no more videogames, don't use any site other than Wizchan, etc.
It's time to stop reading about life and to start actually living it. You must learn to break the rules.
Same. Because of this i've decided to take the Blindpill and started consuming as little media as possible. Sold my TV, no more videogames, don't use any site other than Wizchan, etc.
It's time to stop reading about life and to start actually living it. You must learn to break the rules.
>>183141
>>183133
>It seems like some people ITT are trying to blame others for their own intrinsic character traits that they dislike for some reason.
You're just projecting your rare personal experience as universal fact.
>Somebody who is naturally inclined to socialization will pursue that regardless of their childhood, and the opposite is true for wizards.
I'm not the sort of person who thinks people are all blank slates built by their environments with no preferences or natural inclinations. But have you ever honestly heard of just one example of someone with extremely controlling parents being a Chad anyway? A case like yours is more like a voluntary preference, while with extremely overprotected wizards the control and influence of their parents is rather visible.
>>183133
>It seems like some people ITT are trying to blame others for their own intrinsic character traits that they dislike for some reason.
You're just projecting your rare personal experience as universal fact.
>Somebody who is naturally inclined to socialization will pursue that regardless of their childhood, and the opposite is true for wizards.
I'm not the sort of person who thinks people are all blank slates built by their environments with no preferences or natural inclinations. But have you ever honestly heard of just one example of someone with extremely controlling parents being a Chad anyway? A case like yours is more like a voluntary preference, while with extremely overprotected wizards the control and influence of their parents is rather visible.
>>183336
Are you retarded? The overbearing parent of a sports star is a classic stereotype for a reason. From ugly mothers prostituting their children on the pageant scene to football obsessed dads bullying their kids into playing sportsball.
The Breakfast club has a scene about the chad jock being pressured by his Dad into being chad.
Are you retarded? The overbearing parent of a sports star is a classic stereotype for a reason. From ugly mothers prostituting their children on the pageant scene to football obsessed dads bullying their kids into playing sportsball.
The Breakfast club has a scene about the chad jock being pressured by his Dad into being chad.
>>183347
Not that type of control, faggot. As in paranoid, overprotecting parents who make kids afraid of the outside world.
Not that type of control, faggot. As in paranoid, overprotecting parents who make kids afraid of the outside world.
My parents never controlled me. Dad just said I shouldnt drink before 18. My parents never drank
I had absolutely zero interest in anything considered "cool" Like cars, smoking, drinking, and kids get mopeds in finland at 15.
I was very content with just going to school, playing and talking about video games before 18. I drank for the first time at my 18th birthday playing lol with my friend
I had absolutely zero interest in anything considered "cool" Like cars, smoking, drinking, and kids get mopeds in finland at 15.
I was very content with just going to school, playing and talking about video games before 18. I drank for the first time at my 18th birthday playing lol with my friend
>>183133
I remember reading in some book that there's a known phenomenon in various psychology trials that involve kids wherein a number of them will persevere and grow up to be relatively healthy regardless of how bad their environment is, whether that be parents or other factors. They might be raised by heroin addicts yet become productive members of society, or they may grow up with overprotective parents but somehow have the drive to rebel and establish a group of friends at school. In many trials something to the tune of 10-20% of the children were like this, succeeding in spite of the odds with no clear explanation for why. I imagine these are the people who grow up to tell others who are struggling to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps". However, those others are quite likely to be part of the majority of children who are indeed heavily influenced by their environment and upbringing, succumbing to the patterns instilled in their childhood. So I think there's some truth to what you're saying, temperament or some other genetic factors do determine things to an extent, but it's not clear how much influence they have. I'd theorize that some people are inherently more malleable and that might be why they're more susceptible to adopting their parents' ways, whether wrong or right, while others are naturally more independent. This may interplay with various other temperamental factors, such as how social one naturally is, e.g. a malleable child who is prone to avoid socializing but was properly encouraged (not forced) to do it in childhood might never be as social as the stereotypical extrovert, but they may still develop enough social skills to enjoy a healthy social life. The same child might become a recluse without sufficient encouragement or due to parental neglect, however. On the other hand, a more independent child would either seek or avoid (whatever their preference is) social experiences on their own even if it's discouraged/encouraged by the parents, so their influence would be less noticeable.
I remember reading in some book that there's a known phenomenon in various psychology trials that involve kids wherein a number of them will persevere and grow up to be relatively healthy regardless of how bad their environment is, whether that be parents or other factors. They might be raised by heroin addicts yet become productive members of society, or they may grow up with overprotective parents but somehow have the drive to rebel and establish a group of friends at school. In many trials something to the tune of 10-20% of the children were like this, succeeding in spite of the odds with no clear explanation for why. I imagine these are the people who grow up to tell others who are struggling to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps". However, those others are quite likely to be part of the majority of children who are indeed heavily influenced by their environment and upbringing, succumbing to the patterns instilled in their childhood. So I think there's some truth to what you're saying, temperament or some other genetic factors do determine things to an extent, but it's not clear how much influence they have. I'd theorize that some people are inherently more malleable and that might be why they're more susceptible to adopting their parents' ways, whether wrong or right, while others are naturally more independent. This may interplay with various other temperamental factors, such as how social one naturally is, e.g. a malleable child who is prone to avoid socializing but was properly encouraged (not forced) to do it in childhood might never be as social as the stereotypical extrovert, but they may still develop enough social skills to enjoy a healthy social life. The same child might become a recluse without sufficient encouragement or due to parental neglect, however. On the other hand, a more independent child would either seek or avoid (whatever their preference is) social experiences on their own even if it's discouraged/encouraged by the parents, so their influence would be less noticeable.
>>183372
how do you know thats him? i know its him cuz i browse NEET subreddit and he posts there
how do you know thats him? i know its him cuz i browse NEET subreddit and he posts there
>>183495
cause he always have to bring up that hes a hapa and how superior japan/asia is even though hes half white too.
cause he always have to bring up that hes a hapa and how superior japan/asia is even though hes half white too.
>>183495
because he always have to bring up his hapa ness and always talks about how superior japan/asian culture is despite being also half white
because he always have to bring up his hapa ness and always talks about how superior japan/asian culture is despite being also half white
my parents are absolute hermits or were, funny seeing someone being shut in, only going to work suddenly become an social butterfly at the old age,
parents were happy about me being on pc so much, so they didnt have to worry about me going outside
parents were happy about me being on pc so much, so they didnt have to worry about me going outside
>>180574
>I even find it odd how my family finds it abnormal that I hate going outside now despite them being them who made me like this.
as a anon raised for the majority of my childhood by a single working mother in a small house next to a busy road i can relate to it completely.
i essentially was forced to spend all my free time indoors, both because i had to look after things in the house while my mom worked and second because i literally just lived next to a highway ni other kids lived along, there was nothing to do, no parks, trees or kids to play with.
my mom would drive me to school and then I'd walk back an hour on my own and spend until 8pm playing video games or watching tv.
cut to my college graduation day where i left genuinely not knowing anyone on my degree and then my mom expresses concern i may be "to comfortable being alone".
people don't get it, they never will, unlike you i guess i do regret wasting all that time, but it's to late to change that and i don't expect my lifestyle to ever change.
>I even find it odd how my family finds it abnormal that I hate going outside now despite them being them who made me like this.
as a anon raised for the majority of my childhood by a single working mother in a small house next to a busy road i can relate to it completely.
i essentially was forced to spend all my free time indoors, both because i had to look after things in the house while my mom worked and second because i literally just lived next to a highway ni other kids lived along, there was nothing to do, no parks, trees or kids to play with.
my mom would drive me to school and then I'd walk back an hour on my own and spend until 8pm playing video games or watching tv.
cut to my college graduation day where i left genuinely not knowing anyone on my degree and then my mom expresses concern i may be "to comfortable being alone".
people don't get it, they never will, unlike you i guess i do regret wasting all that time, but it's to late to change that and i don't expect my lifestyle to ever change.
A hoarder's kid. Couldn't have anyone over. Had to keep people from seeing the hoard. My room was the only clean one and had my computer, so it was like the only place I could breathe and feel human. My mom was convinced I would get snatched off the street if I walked to the park at the end of the road. When I was little it was agony not being allowed to go to the swings and shit, then I just accepted maybe some people don't get to be people.
I actually used to be really outgoing and extroverted as a young lad. All the authority figures in my life, the teachers, my parents, leaders in extracurriculars, all would punish me and make me feel like I was wrong for not just sitting there and shutting up and just doing the state mandated curriculum designed to turn me into a good little worker bee. Furthermore, all my attempts to reach out and be sociable were spurned and every time I felt I was chasing something that was withheld from me just out of reach, and I watched with envy and self consciousness as my peers were able to attain status and relationships effortlessly. At some point during high school I turned inward and stopped talking to people and it’s been that way ever since.
I don’t know how I should reflect on this. On the one hand, I am furious at my parents for not taking my side and building up my confidence as a parent should with their child. I am furious that they would side with societal institutions in corrupting my innate goodness just because they listen to authority figures on how I should be the goodest goy I can be. On the other hand, I think my experience with rejection and humiliation helped me dodge a bullet by keeping me out of the rat race and saved me from being taken advantage of and becoming a slave like the normalcattle lemmings. Although this effect was unintended.
I don’t know how I should reflect on this. On the one hand, I am furious at my parents for not taking my side and building up my confidence as a parent should with their child. I am furious that they would side with societal institutions in corrupting my innate goodness just because they listen to authority figures on how I should be the goodest goy I can be. On the other hand, I think my experience with rejection and humiliation helped me dodge a bullet by keeping me out of the rat race and saved me from being taken advantage of and becoming a slave like the normalcattle lemmings. Although this effect was unintended.
>>185021
Do you really believe yourself to be more free than the others just because you failed to socialize, or are you coping?
Do you really believe yourself to be more free than the others just because you failed to socialize, or are you coping?
>>185022
It is more than that, but yes I believe dropping out of the rat race means I am more free, because being successful in our culture means investing in the interest of other people. If you are financially successful, you either take orders from your boss and work according to the companies rules and give them your profits, or you start a business and meet the demands of the market to survive. If you are successful socially, you conform to conventional morality and what is normal and provide pleasure for other people. I am more free than any of these people because I define my own reality and am not someone else’s bitch
It is more than that, but yes I believe dropping out of the rat race means I am more free, because being successful in our culture means investing in the interest of other people. If you are financially successful, you either take orders from your boss and work according to the companies rules and give them your profits, or you start a business and meet the demands of the market to survive. If you are successful socially, you conform to conventional morality and what is normal and provide pleasure for other people. I am more free than any of these people because I define my own reality and am not someone else’s bitch
>>185024
I never thought of participating in society as "being someone else's bitch", rather I see it as a deal—I do something for someone and get something in return, even if the conditions of this deal are not favorable you can always quit and go living in the mountains or something if you want.
I never thought of participating in society as "being someone else's bitch", rather I see it as a deal—I do something for someone and get something in return, even if the conditions of this deal are not favorable you can always quit and go living in the mountains or something if you want.
>>185031
the artifice of the social contract is the means of which we are given over to each other, but it is not an equivalent exchange. it is the advantage of some at the expense of others. it is infuriating to watch as people effortlessly obtain what i have to struggle for every day just to survive. but even if all inequalities were mended, all wrongs are made right, it still would fundamentally be slavery, because our society makes men bad. it corrupts our innate goodness we had in a natural state with its envy and self consciousness. i think about the story of adam and eve. in a state of nature, they were happy and basked in the glory of their creator. but when they ate the forbidden fruit, they became insecure and hid in the bushes when they used to walk with God. the story is a parable of man's discovery of agriculture.
furthermore, it molds human behavior and forces us to skate down rails others have laid for us. for example, it forces us to be social when we were not naturally so, and it forces us to live under the management of human reason even though it makes us unhappy.
>even if the conditions of this deal are not favorable you can always quit and go living in the mountains or something if you want.
you wouldn't really escape even if you did. ted kaczynski tried that but got infuriated when they built a highway through his forest and put tracking tags on the animals he hunted.
the artifice of the social contract is the means of which we are given over to each other, but it is not an equivalent exchange. it is the advantage of some at the expense of others. it is infuriating to watch as people effortlessly obtain what i have to struggle for every day just to survive. but even if all inequalities were mended, all wrongs are made right, it still would fundamentally be slavery, because our society makes men bad. it corrupts our innate goodness we had in a natural state with its envy and self consciousness. i think about the story of adam and eve. in a state of nature, they were happy and basked in the glory of their creator. but when they ate the forbidden fruit, they became insecure and hid in the bushes when they used to walk with God. the story is a parable of man's discovery of agriculture.
furthermore, it molds human behavior and forces us to skate down rails others have laid for us. for example, it forces us to be social when we were not naturally so, and it forces us to live under the management of human reason even though it makes us unhappy.
>even if the conditions of this deal are not favorable you can always quit and go living in the mountains or something if you want.
you wouldn't really escape even if you did. ted kaczynski tried that but got infuriated when they built a highway through his forest and put tracking tags on the animals he hunted.
Although my parents have flaws, just like everyone else, they were always extremely caring towards me and I love them wholeheartedly. I'm just a mentally ill fuckup and my isolation is no one's fault buy mine
I would tell my dad I want to be dropped off at some afterschool classes or maybe a frens house. Nope. Can I get money to join this program? Nah. Boyscout? no lol. This was in elementary. Fast forward 2 years later I am sitting all alone during lunch break in the school cafeteria. I wasnt able to keep a friend. During HS I wanted a job but dad didnt want to help for shit. Typical useless b*omer. Is more interested in watching sports faggots play with balls. Fast forward to today, 6 years a NEET looking at 7. I cant even drive. No one invested in me. My dad had the fuckin nerve to compare me to my cousin. He told me my cousin had a car at age 16. He then looked up as if to ponder then said "he found work with his dad's place". Eventually my mom asked him when will he do the same. Took them until I was like 24 to realize how useless dad is and how very few connections/friends we have. Why have kids if you have 0 plans for them? seriously? I am miserable
>>185179
i'm a mentally ill fuck up as well and my parents are generally normal. I still hate all parents in general for having kids since theres no point.
i'm a mentally ill fuck up as well and my parents are generally normal. I still hate all parents in general for having kids since theres no point.
>>185179
Your delusion of free will is only hurting you.
Who you become depends on your genetics, your experiences (largely determined by your parents), chaotic randomness. There is no way for you to be able to rationally blame yourself
Your delusion of free will is only hurting you.
Who you become depends on your genetics, your experiences (largely determined by your parents), chaotic randomness. There is no way for you to be able to rationally blame yourself
>>180636
>You're the reason every discussion of quantum mechanics is reduced to shitty analogies about cats and boxes.
i stopped reading here, and here i will call you out
he is not the reason quantum mechanics or any other subject is written about the way it is written or explained, it is the people themselves behind the study of a given field who doesn't actually care about the definition of words to explain something, "hard science" types really think it is irrelevant, that instead you should look at what is happening and then grasp the concept intuitively; only humanities gives importance to the definition of words and it has to be non-marxist, otherwise you will find those types anyway, it seems to be a common thing for materialists
those are your actual enemies, not a nobody on a memeposting forum for virgins
>You're the reason every discussion of quantum mechanics is reduced to shitty analogies about cats and boxes.
i stopped reading here, and here i will call you out
he is not the reason quantum mechanics or any other subject is written about the way it is written or explained, it is the people themselves behind the study of a given field who doesn't actually care about the definition of words to explain something, "hard science" types really think it is irrelevant, that instead you should look at what is happening and then grasp the concept intuitively; only humanities gives importance to the definition of words and it has to be non-marxist, otherwise you will find those types anyway, it seems to be a common thing for materialists
those are your actual enemies, not a nobody on a memeposting forum for virgins
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