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Do you think it's a blessing or a curse to be a wizard? Do you wish you could be "normal"? What has made you accept your fate?
>What has made you accept your fate?
Fate? We chose to be wizards by rejecting sex and relationships.
Fate? We chose to be wizards by rejecting sex and relationships.
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I like it but I have to admit it's a pain in the ass to have to come here and read the drivel you guys write day in, day out.
>>192988
Seems to me like a lot of posters here suffered abuse, being bullied severely in childhood, and other factors hindering their social development which lead them on a road to this site. Depending on what you want to believe you could interpret that as fate ultimately or your own choosing if you want to feel like you're in control.
Seems to me like a lot of posters here suffered abuse, being bullied severely in childhood, and other factors hindering their social development which lead them on a road to this site. Depending on what you want to believe you could interpret that as fate ultimately or your own choosing if you want to feel like you're in control.
Can be a blessing, the freedom that comes with being a wizard is a blessing, but the isolation and alienation are not, it depends on who is it, and how one's deal with all that package, some deals well enough, other not so much.
Not having kids or a wife makes life much easier, the primary argument against foregoing these things is that you can't be happy long term without it, but I'm doing just fine.
>>192987
It can be a blessing if you have rich parents or if you live in the first world and have access to neetbux, but it's definitely a curse if you're poor and you live in a shithole country.
It can be a blessing if you have rich parents or if you live in the first world and have access to neetbux, but it's definitely a curse if you're poor and you live in a shithole country.
For me its genetics because my brother is also like me. I cannot become a normal its just not possible for my biology and character. I would say its curse because I’m unable to work and cannot do basic things normals do.
If you fully commit to being wiz, it's much better than being "normal". No responsibilities, no social drama, you just live in your own world. But if you're stuck in-between worlds like me, not fully committing to either side, a wiz having to deal with normalfags on a daily basis in order to earn his bread, then you'll wish you were normal simply so you could feel some peace of mind. This world wasn't made for us but we are forced to live in it like stressed out rats.
>>193000
true, i have to fake it being around dumb normalfags all day even though i'm nothing like them. they really are pathetic people.
true, i have to fake it being around dumb normalfags all day even though i'm nothing like them. they really are pathetic people.
apparently you are a crab or failed normalfag if you ever desired social acceptance for even a single moment in your childhood. i figured out that i was never meant to have such a thing given whatever the fuck is "wrong" with me, be it leaning toward inborn mental illness or poor parenting, but this place oftentimes feels like a competition on who can be the biggest gayest psychopathic loser (dahmer wannabes) and that is likely due in part to trying to whittle down the original definition of wizard.
being a wizard is what it is. it is clearly failing some biological/normalfag imperative, but the last pining i did for a normal life was over half my lifetime ago. i wouldnt trade all the time i spent alone with my thoughts for a wife and kids because i know i lack the necessary temperament to be a father/husband and being those things would have just consumed all the time i spent on the introspection which has brought a good deal of peace to my mind. plus, i realized the feeling of hatred between normalfags and myself was mutual after gaining a modicum of self-awareness.
if i had to be pigeonholed one way or the other, i guess i would say it is a blessing. there are guys older than me deep into that manosphere shit and it just looks like they are torturing themselves over their lack of sex relative to their desire for it, and maybe some crabs would always stumble down the same path as them but i see those guys as absolutely horrible role models for many young men that probably arent far off from me mentally. maybe a few of those kids come out the other side with the normal life they desired, but i still wouldnt attribute that to the "advice" of bitter childless middle-aged betas (which i only refer to as such because that is the role they themselves chose to play in life).
being a wizard is what it is. it is clearly failing some biological/normalfag imperative, but the last pining i did for a normal life was over half my lifetime ago. i wouldnt trade all the time i spent alone with my thoughts for a wife and kids because i know i lack the necessary temperament to be a father/husband and being those things would have just consumed all the time i spent on the introspection which has brought a good deal of peace to my mind. plus, i realized the feeling of hatred between normalfags and myself was mutual after gaining a modicum of self-awareness.
if i had to be pigeonholed one way or the other, i guess i would say it is a blessing. there are guys older than me deep into that manosphere shit and it just looks like they are torturing themselves over their lack of sex relative to their desire for it, and maybe some crabs would always stumble down the same path as them but i see those guys as absolutely horrible role models for many young men that probably arent far off from me mentally. maybe a few of those kids come out the other side with the normal life they desired, but i still wouldnt attribute that to the "advice" of bitter childless middle-aged betas (which i only refer to as such because that is the role they themselves chose to play in life).
>>192987
Neither. It's a cope for losers who can't fully commit to being a neet or hikkimori and are stuck in their life between normalfags and crabs.(user was warned for this post)
Neither. It's a cope for losers who can't fully commit to being a neet or hikkimori and are stuck in their life between normalfags and crabs.(user was warned for this post)
>>192988
no one can help their upbringing being subject to neglect and outcast just changes you plain and simple. ill accept that is the reality of my life
no one can help their upbringing being subject to neglect and outcast just changes you plain and simple. ill accept that is the reality of my life
>>192987
>Do you wish you could be "normal"?
I do not wish to be animal or fanatic.
Thats not my thing.
>Do you wish you could be "normal"?
I do not wish to be animal or fanatic.
Thats not my thing.
>>193009
nope, in any case saying "we" as if all wizards collectivly agree and feel the same is laughable
most users here never set out to be wizards, it just happened, and like (almost) everything else in life all you can do is suck it up and get on with it
nope, in any case saying "we" as if all wizards collectivly agree and feel the same is laughable
most users here never set out to be wizards, it just happened, and like (almost) everything else in life all you can do is suck it up and get on with it
There are pros and cons.
I feel like wizardry and the like is akin to taking an extra small bite from the tree of knowledge. You'll get an intimate view of how everything works but then you start to realize why we were forbidden from eating from that tree in the first place. I believe this fundamentally changes you and other people (normalfags) from then on can sense there is something "wrong" with you, permanently branding you as an outcast.
If you can find a way to happily pursue your passions all day long you'll probably be fine but if you're forced into wageslaving side by side with normals that you have nothing in common with and that dislike you deeply then life begins to seem more like Hell.
>>192988
I mean I actively chose to ignore succubi and not pursue sex but I cannot say with confidence that it was me that decided that vs some sort of mental issues I was born with or developed.
Biologically speaking we are organisms and we are supposed to mate. An organism that has no desire/ability to mate is considered defective.
I feel like wizardry and the like is akin to taking an extra small bite from the tree of knowledge. You'll get an intimate view of how everything works but then you start to realize why we were forbidden from eating from that tree in the first place. I believe this fundamentally changes you and other people (normalfags) from then on can sense there is something "wrong" with you, permanently branding you as an outcast.
If you can find a way to happily pursue your passions all day long you'll probably be fine but if you're forced into wageslaving side by side with normals that you have nothing in common with and that dislike you deeply then life begins to seem more like Hell.
>>192988
I mean I actively chose to ignore succubi and not pursue sex but I cannot say with confidence that it was me that decided that vs some sort of mental issues I was born with or developed.
Biologically speaking we are organisms and we are supposed to mate. An organism that has no desire/ability to mate is considered defective.
Some of you guys are going to have to "cope" with some bans if you keep denying that celibacy, and to that extent Wizardry, can be entirely by choice without some outside influences forcing any man in to a position of abstinence.
If you want to have some general discussion about "no true volcels" or "crabs can't exist", you can make a thread for that, but please stop entering every /wiz/ thread to explain how you were blackpilled in to believing that no celibate man is actually happy with his life as virgin, or is only rolling with the punches thrown by life and would probably have sex if some things went better.
If you want to have some general discussion about "no true volcels" or "crabs can't exist", you can make a thread for that, but please stop entering every /wiz/ thread to explain how you were blackpilled in to believing that no celibate man is actually happy with his life as virgin, or is only rolling with the punches thrown by life and would probably have sex if some things went better.
>>193034
You could have reminded people to obey rule 4 without appealing to some arguable free will nonsense
You could have reminded people to obey rule 4 without appealing to some arguable free will nonsense
>>193034
you realize the flip side is that guys who admit there might be something wrong with them to force them into wizardry are often called crabs here, right? there are never bans and warnings doled out for that. besides that i dont want to hear tfw no gf shit, it is largely a pointless distinction.
you realize the flip side is that guys who admit there might be something wrong with them to force them into wizardry are often called crabs here, right? there are never bans and warnings doled out for that. besides that i dont want to hear tfw no gf shit, it is largely a pointless distinction.
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It is neither. I live the life of a wizard because that is who I am. It is pointless to dwell on other realities.
>>193046
You might need to reconsider such a fragile world view if it can be torn down by a single word or a frog picture you crabfaggot.
You might need to reconsider such a fragile world view if it can be torn down by a single word or a frog picture you crabfaggot.
>>193034
Wizardry is obviously not a choice, otherwise any crab would be able to claim he is a wizard. Stop protecting crabs with rule 4 and ban the anti-coping posers here who got into a meltdown from their worldview being shattered.
Wizardry is obviously not a choice, otherwise any crab would be able to claim he is a wizard. Stop protecting crabs with rule 4 and ban the anti-coping posers here who got into a meltdown from their worldview being shattered.
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This thread sucks
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>>193050
Its definitely a choice, but some people cannot imagine why a man would choose this life over the typical chad playboy or traditional family life, but this completely ignores the reality of how difficult and unlikely it is to pull off the ideal relationship/marriage experience and the various downsides that come with it. Basically you have a black and white view of A.Perfect traditional family life vs B.Virgin in his moms basement, choosing B over A seems insane therefore it must be a cope, but that would only be the case if it were really that simple. The reality is that its very difficult, unlikely and risky trying to achieve A, therefore B becomes the better choice.
Its no different than why some people choose not to buy lottery tickets, the chances of winning are so low that its not even worth wasting the time and money. But if you simplify it to A.Win lottery and B.Don't play don't win, while ignoring the cost, option B then becomes a "cope", but that simplification of the situation is not reality. Choosing to be a wizard actually makes sense when you factor in the full range of the good and bad that comes with dating, sex and relationships.
Its definitely a choice, but some people cannot imagine why a man would choose this life over the typical chad playboy or traditional family life, but this completely ignores the reality of how difficult and unlikely it is to pull off the ideal relationship/marriage experience and the various downsides that come with it. Basically you have a black and white view of A.Perfect traditional family life vs B.Virgin in his moms basement, choosing B over A seems insane therefore it must be a cope, but that would only be the case if it were really that simple. The reality is that its very difficult, unlikely and risky trying to achieve A, therefore B becomes the better choice.
Its no different than why some people choose not to buy lottery tickets, the chances of winning are so low that its not even worth wasting the time and money. But if you simplify it to A.Win lottery and B.Don't play don't win, while ignoring the cost, option B then becomes a "cope", but that simplification of the situation is not reality. Choosing to be a wizard actually makes sense when you factor in the full range of the good and bad that comes with dating, sex and relationships.
>>193054
>Its definitely a choice
you are either born a wizard or not, you definitely don't choice it since it implies free will exists
>Its definitely a choice
you are either born a wizard or not, you definitely don't choice it since it implies free will exists
I lay in bed at night thinking about how if some things had gone down differently, I would have ended up as a normie who would have taken the death shot labelled as a vaccine.
I believe it is God's will that I became a wizard. He was the one who came to me and told me not to take the vaccine.
I believe it is God's will that I became a wizard. He was the one who came to me and told me not to take the vaccine.
>>193055
Nonsense, thats like saying you don't have a choice in brushing your teeth or not in the morning. The line between wizard and failed normie is extremely thin, it doesn't take much will to cross it. You will be welcomed with open arms if you are a man willing to copulate with obese trash succubi and create more cogs for the machine while slaving to take care of them. Countless men choose that life, we didn't.
Nonsense, thats like saying you don't have a choice in brushing your teeth or not in the morning. The line between wizard and failed normie is extremely thin, it doesn't take much will to cross it. You will be welcomed with open arms if you are a man willing to copulate with obese trash succubi and create more cogs for the machine while slaving to take care of them. Countless men choose that life, we didn't.
>>193062
>Nonsense, thats like saying you don't have a choice in brushing your teeth or not in the morning.
I don't. Brushing habits are proven to depend on culture, if parents taught good dental care habits, mental health, etc.
>Nonsense, thats like saying you don't have a choice in brushing your teeth or not in the morning.
I don't. Brushing habits are proven to depend on culture, if parents taught good dental care habits, mental health, etc.
>>193062
My gripe with modern day wizardry is that everyone wants to live a normalfag lifestyle while still wearing the title of wizard. These "wizards" constantly want to improve their life and become happy by either getting a job, working out, or focusing on outdoors or creative hobbies. These are all posers. Where are the wizards whos life is basically fucked up beyond any repair that not even getting a job or being on meds would fix them? Why do I feel not at home with those supposed to be like me? I am mentally ill with bux stuck living with my parents for life, I never had a "choice" like the normalfags here playing pretend while under the guise of a wizard hat.
My gripe with modern day wizardry is that everyone wants to live a normalfag lifestyle while still wearing the title of wizard. These "wizards" constantly want to improve their life and become happy by either getting a job, working out, or focusing on outdoors or creative hobbies. These are all posers. Where are the wizards whos life is basically fucked up beyond any repair that not even getting a job or being on meds would fix them? Why do I feel not at home with those supposed to be like me? I am mentally ill with bux stuck living with my parents for life, I never had a "choice" like the normalfags here playing pretend while under the guise of a wizard hat.
>>193068
A wizard is defined as a virgin over 30. Not everyone is a miserable crab. Not having sex doesnt mean you cant be happy. if you think otherwise then this site isnt for you, and please stay in /dep/ at least. Nobody has a "choice" about who they are and that has nothing to do with it. I'd say you're easily breaking rule 4 by implying that being a wizard means you are "broken" and cant be "fixed". You show all signs of being a self-hating crab. People arent supposed to be like you.
A wizard is defined as a virgin over 30. Not everyone is a miserable crab. Not having sex doesnt mean you cant be happy. if you think otherwise then this site isnt for you, and please stay in /dep/ at least. Nobody has a "choice" about who they are and that has nothing to do with it. I'd say you're easily breaking rule 4 by implying that being a wizard means you are "broken" and cant be "fixed". You show all signs of being a self-hating crab. People arent supposed to be like you.
>>193032
just stop hating normals and realize you are not one of them. i can still chameleon and fit in with them sometimes. theres no need to carry all that hatred.
just stop hating normals and realize you are not one of them. i can still chameleon and fit in with them sometimes. theres no need to carry all that hatred.
>>193068
and you type more coherently than dumb low tier normies working jobs, i think you could work a job if yo u really wanted to.
and you type more coherently than dumb low tier normies working jobs, i think you could work a job if yo u really wanted to.
>>193068
>>193074
>Wizard implies you should be "fucked up beyond any repair that not even getting a job or being on meds would fix them"
>implying that if you dont have sex then you are fucked up and could be "fixed"
>rule 4: Do not disparage the celibate
If you don't like the basic rules of the website, fuck off!
>>193074
>Wizard implies you should be "fucked up beyond any repair that not even getting a job or being on meds would fix them"
>implying that if you dont have sex then you are fucked up and could be "fixed"
>rule 4: Do not disparage the celibate
If you don't like the basic rules of the website, fuck off!
>>193068
That's something beyond wizard. True outcasts are real damn rare. I almost never see people who have given up to the extent I have.
That's something beyond wizard. True outcasts are real damn rare. I almost never see people who have given up to the extent I have.
>>193068
>not even getting a job or being on meds would fix them
i dont even know how to get a job. i dont see how getting a job would fix someone also, whot eh hell would want to work. i cant figure out the logistics for seeing a doctor, like how do i physically go to these places, how do i pay for the shit. how the fuck did you even get a diagnosis and bux?
>not even getting a job or being on meds would fix them
i dont even know how to get a job. i dont see how getting a job would fix someone also, whot eh hell would want to work. i cant figure out the logistics for seeing a doctor, like how do i physically go to these places, how do i pay for the shit. how the fuck did you even get a diagnosis and bux?
Like most things in life, there's is always the good and the bad side of things, being a wizard isn't different, so it comes with good side, like the peace of mind and quiet life, and the bad like being lonely and having the feeling of missing out some "key" milestone of life, in the end it comes down to the individual and how he deals with it.
>>193035
>arguable free will nonsense
It's nobody's responsibility to consider and abide by the delusional defeatist belief structures of every random person when making a post. Besides, you admit it's arguable so you must be somewhat open to the ideas of those opposing the idea.
>arguable free will nonsense
It's nobody's responsibility to consider and abide by the delusional defeatist belief structures of every random person when making a post. Besides, you admit it's arguable so you must be somewhat open to the ideas of those opposing the idea.
>>193062
Talk for yourself shit. I’m not a normal and biologically incapable of being one what you said is a lie.
>>193068
I’m a 29 yo neet who have never worked a single day in his life and unlike you I don’t even have a bux
>>193086
Free will is a lie, everything is genetically determined , if you have trash genetics like me , will not have achieve anything.
Talk for yourself shit. I’m not a normal and biologically incapable of being one what you said is a lie.
>>193068
I’m a 29 yo neet who have never worked a single day in his life and unlike you I don’t even have a bux
>>193086
Free will is a lie, everything is genetically determined , if you have trash genetics like me , will not have achieve anything.
>>193086
I said it's arguable because as you can see many posters will just be stuck on that and keep arguing about that, rendering his pathetic attempt at moderation a failure.
I said it's arguable because as you can see many posters will just be stuck on that and keep arguing about that, rendering his pathetic attempt at moderation a failure.
Existence is meaningless, being aware of the triviality of your own life seems like a curse to me.
>>193135
It is great, means there is no reason to stress because this is just as pointless as a game
It is great, means there is no reason to stress because this is just as pointless as a game
>>193155
Doesn't work that way. You know it's meaningless but you stress about it anyway. That's the real curse.
Doesn't work that way. You know it's meaningless but you stress about it anyway. That's the real curse.
The problem is with life being so hard and full of suffering, not with being a wizard. Honestly, life is shit for most people, including the majority of normals too. They just aren't as honest about it as we are. Most people live by "never complain, positive thoughts!" stuff and so they delude each other and themselves too that life isn't a horror movie. That or they run to self-mutilating ideologies like stoicism, eastern religions, christianity, etc. that help them endure this cruel existence and to achieve happiness through destruction or oppression of the ego. This latter type basically falls into a constant state of apathy because otherwise they would be too weak to face life and would fall apart.
So no, I don't hate being a wizard, in fact I like it quite much. To tell the truth, even though I hate certain parts of life and curse existence itself daily, I don't hate it that much that I would wish for death or non-existence. My life isn't that bad yet. There are still things I enjoy and want to do. But that doesn't mean I pretend everything is perfect and happy-go-lucky.
So no, I don't hate being a wizard, in fact I like it quite much. To tell the truth, even though I hate certain parts of life and curse existence itself daily, I don't hate it that much that I would wish for death or non-existence. My life isn't that bad yet. There are still things I enjoy and want to do. But that doesn't mean I pretend everything is perfect and happy-go-lucky.
>>193165
That's why I always take a symbolic approach to the ideologies I blend up, they're just fun copes to reinforce my main worldview of life being shit but spicing it up a bit with esoteric bullshit.
That's why I always take a symbolic approach to the ideologies I blend up, they're just fun copes to reinforce my main worldview of life being shit but spicing it up a bit with esoteric bullshit.
>>193154
>what is genetics, what is environment, what is parenting
Free will is cope for brainlets and midwits.
And if paranormal shit happens, than in that case its magical legal shit.
>what is genetics, what is environment, what is parenting
Free will is cope for brainlets and midwits.
And if paranormal shit happens, than in that case its magical legal shit.
>>192987
It's a blessing. I don't wish to be normal. The one thing I can do better than anyone I know is to endure boredom, the ability to do nothing and be content is a gift. All around me I see people creating difficulties for themselves (and others), desperate for novelty. Drugs, alcohol, making babies, fighting for political or religious ideals etc.
All I want is an easy life, that's all there is to hope for. Anything else seems to me worthless, an easy life is a life I can live, otherwise what's the point?
It's a blessing. I don't wish to be normal. The one thing I can do better than anyone I know is to endure boredom, the ability to do nothing and be content is a gift. All around me I see people creating difficulties for themselves (and others), desperate for novelty. Drugs, alcohol, making babies, fighting for political or religious ideals etc.
All I want is an easy life, that's all there is to hope for. Anything else seems to me worthless, an easy life is a life I can live, otherwise what's the point?
>>193231
Not him but for me the will is free enough it seems. I tried adopting a "no free will" attitude before but I can't honestly accept it. The pro-determinism people just want an excuse so that they don't have to take responsibility for anything. And it is actually more pessimistic, I mean the idea of free will. I could have done better if I acted differently and all that. True pessimism needs to approve of free will.
>>193210
>copes
Please don't use that word. It is so overused these days by everyone.
Not him but for me the will is free enough it seems. I tried adopting a "no free will" attitude before but I can't honestly accept it. The pro-determinism people just want an excuse so that they don't have to take responsibility for anything. And it is actually more pessimistic, I mean the idea of free will. I could have done better if I acted differently and all that. True pessimism needs to approve of free will.
>>193210
>copes
Please don't use that word. It is so overused these days by everyone.
>>193236
The only way you could claim there is no free will is if you're supposing a higher power imposing on you, that is animating you or selecting you. You'd need to believe in God (and most of the people who do this "hurr durr no free will" thing are actually Satanists of some stripe, which amounts to the same thing). Absent a God willing it, individually you're as free as you ever were to act, within the capabilities of your body at the present moment. Your will is the result of the sum total of your experiences thus far, most of which are happening within yourself or are processed by yourself, with yourself remaining intact. The implication of the no free will people is that there is some foreign will and thought regularly imposing itself on your mind and freeing you of responsibility or any knowledge of what is happening. Basically, it's about advancing the idea of universal slavery and subordinating the actual human beings of the world to something alien like the state. In every important way, humans are socialized as individuals who act in what they believe to be their self-interest. A wageslave is still motivated by self-interest, but is forced by many contrivances to seek his self-interest through controlled channels. Wageslavery implies that there is no alternative to submission to a boss, which means the bosses must collude and disallow any other arrangement - most especially the arrangement where the dispossessed pick up pitchforks or guns and take what they wanted in the first place from the rich. Every system of slavery that has existed relies on the presumption that there is some universal force compelling slavery in some way, because if the slave relation is laid bare as something that has to be constantly enforced by very specific environmental and social conditions, it's easy to see the arrangement's difficulties. More importantly, it would expose slavery as something dependent on many little lies told over and over, that tell us that we're supposed to obey people. If slave drivers had to use direct violent force to compel slaves to do the simplest things, slavery would be unsustainable. That's why all these visions of AI-driven computerized slavery are ridiculous and will never work - it would be far too expensive and missing the point of why you would do slavery in the first place.
The only way you could claim there is no free will is if you're supposing a higher power imposing on you, that is animating you or selecting you. You'd need to believe in God (and most of the people who do this "hurr durr no free will" thing are actually Satanists of some stripe, which amounts to the same thing). Absent a God willing it, individually you're as free as you ever were to act, within the capabilities of your body at the present moment. Your will is the result of the sum total of your experiences thus far, most of which are happening within yourself or are processed by yourself, with yourself remaining intact. The implication of the no free will people is that there is some foreign will and thought regularly imposing itself on your mind and freeing you of responsibility or any knowledge of what is happening. Basically, it's about advancing the idea of universal slavery and subordinating the actual human beings of the world to something alien like the state. In every important way, humans are socialized as individuals who act in what they believe to be their self-interest. A wageslave is still motivated by self-interest, but is forced by many contrivances to seek his self-interest through controlled channels. Wageslavery implies that there is no alternative to submission to a boss, which means the bosses must collude and disallow any other arrangement - most especially the arrangement where the dispossessed pick up pitchforks or guns and take what they wanted in the first place from the rich. Every system of slavery that has existed relies on the presumption that there is some universal force compelling slavery in some way, because if the slave relation is laid bare as something that has to be constantly enforced by very specific environmental and social conditions, it's easy to see the arrangement's difficulties. More importantly, it would expose slavery as something dependent on many little lies told over and over, that tell us that we're supposed to obey people. If slave drivers had to use direct violent force to compel slaves to do the simplest things, slavery would be unsustainable. That's why all these visions of AI-driven computerized slavery are ridiculous and will never work - it would be far too expensive and missing the point of why you would do slavery in the first place.
>>193396
This is such a bad comment. Nature language bot?
It is the exact opposite that only free will requires something supernatural. Without an individual magical soul, where is the extra input coming from in the physics equations? You can apply physical laws to every molecule in your body and environment you're intertwined with, but you absurdly claim that there's literal supernatural magic in those equations allowing you to freely control that cage of bone, muscle and blood. Free will requires a supernatural explanation of this which is entirely unsupported by evidence and science
This is such a bad comment. Nature language bot?
It is the exact opposite that only free will requires something supernatural. Without an individual magical soul, where is the extra input coming from in the physics equations? You can apply physical laws to every molecule in your body and environment you're intertwined with, but you absurdly claim that there's literal supernatural magic in those equations allowing you to freely control that cage of bone, muscle and blood. Free will requires a supernatural explanation of this which is entirely unsupported by evidence and science
>>193399
But why does cause and effect necessarily mean "no free will" to you people? To me it just means there is a reason for why we do everything, not that everything is predetermined. So you are hungry and you eat. You say there is no free will and you were predetermined to eat. I say you were hungry and so you chose to eat.
There is still a free will in you and you make decisions with it, based on previous experiences and current environmental factors.
>>193396
I think you are right. For a long time I thought that determinism means materialism and free will means idealism of some kind like the other poster said but that's just a narrow view of things. Things are more complicated than that.
But why does cause and effect necessarily mean "no free will" to you people? To me it just means there is a reason for why we do everything, not that everything is predetermined. So you are hungry and you eat. You say there is no free will and you were predetermined to eat. I say you were hungry and so you chose to eat.
There is still a free will in you and you make decisions with it, based on previous experiences and current environmental factors.
>>193396
I think you are right. For a long time I thought that determinism means materialism and free will means idealism of some kind like the other poster said but that's just a narrow view of things. Things are more complicated than that.
>>193412
There's no point arguing about free will if you cant even agree on the definition on the term. You're just making up language
There's no point arguing about free will if you cant even agree on the definition on the term. You're just making up language
>>193424
Fact remains that determinists just want a reason to shift the blame on outside influences and to justify why they don't do things differently. At least the determinists on this site think like this.
Fact remains that determinists just want a reason to shift the blame on outside influences and to justify why they don't do things differently. At least the determinists on this site think like this.
>>193427
If they are determinist, then they shouldn't care because there was nothing they could have done.
If they are determinist, then they shouldn't care because there was nothing they could have done.
>>193427
The same logic absolves other influences from blame too. I cant blame my mother because she also has no free will. You show that you still don't understand. There is no blame. This true realisation frees you from the harmful concept of blame.
The same logic absolves other influences from blame too. I cant blame my mother because she also has no free will. You show that you still don't understand. There is no blame. This true realisation frees you from the harmful concept of blame.
>>193427
Free will is equally protective in that it allows the dismissal of others suffering from conscious awareness. It's just if you're protecting your mental contentment or trying to regulate mental suffering.
Free will is equally protective in that it allows the dismissal of others suffering from conscious awareness. It's just if you're protecting your mental contentment or trying to regulate mental suffering.
>>193427
Free will is for religious cucks who cannot accept their god is not just and righteous so they could do blame losers for their own failure and miserable lives. You just didn’t try enough it isn’t the gods fault but your own laziness and failure.
Darwinist atheists on the contrary are genetic determinists. They believe everything is determined through effect of genes rather than external influence and nurturing. Thats why true darwinists support eugenics and believe inferior people are unsalvageable and they should just not allowed to reproduce or even their miserable lives must end painlessly
Free will is for religious cucks who cannot accept their god is not just and righteous so they could do blame losers for their own failure and miserable lives. You just didn’t try enough it isn’t the gods fault but your own laziness and failure.
Darwinist atheists on the contrary are genetic determinists. They believe everything is determined through effect of genes rather than external influence and nurturing. Thats why true darwinists support eugenics and believe inferior people are unsalvageable and they should just not allowed to reproduce or even their miserable lives must end painlessly
>>193429
So apathy is the natural result of determinism?
>>193442
This is an extremely dangerous line of thought, though. So you are saying people who torture animals for fun can't help it, they are just doing whatever is predetermined for them. Just one example. I don't agree with this. You can clearly choose what to do, you aren't a cat or fish or other low level animal that can only follow its basic urges, you have choices, you can control yourself.
>>193443
How so? Someone spends his time drinking and doing drugs all the time, of course his life will be shit, no wonder there and it's his fault. People can influence their own lives to a great degree. Determinists just want to excuse everyone and everything. You can feel pity for those who suffer even if you believe in free will, what you say makes no sense. Free will doesn't mean you can transcend reality magically. It just means you are free to choose your fate in this world.
>>193449
There are religions that believe in determinism too, like Calvinism for example. And no, you don't understand religions with free will either. If what you say is true about them then catholics for example wouldn't help unfortunate people at all because they would say they "deserved" everything.
>darwinist atheists
Yeah so you basically just want to be euthanized, is that it?
So apathy is the natural result of determinism?
>>193442
This is an extremely dangerous line of thought, though. So you are saying people who torture animals for fun can't help it, they are just doing whatever is predetermined for them. Just one example. I don't agree with this. You can clearly choose what to do, you aren't a cat or fish or other low level animal that can only follow its basic urges, you have choices, you can control yourself.
>>193443
How so? Someone spends his time drinking and doing drugs all the time, of course his life will be shit, no wonder there and it's his fault. People can influence their own lives to a great degree. Determinists just want to excuse everyone and everything. You can feel pity for those who suffer even if you believe in free will, what you say makes no sense. Free will doesn't mean you can transcend reality magically. It just means you are free to choose your fate in this world.
>>193449
There are religions that believe in determinism too, like Calvinism for example. And no, you don't understand religions with free will either. If what you say is true about them then catholics for example wouldn't help unfortunate people at all because they would say they "deserved" everything.
>darwinist atheists
Yeah so you basically just want to be euthanized, is that it?
>>193452
>You can clearly choose what to do
You provide literally no argument. "Clearly" my ass. All your comments are like this.
>You can clearly choose what to do
You provide literally no argument. "Clearly" my ass. All your comments are like this.
>>193165
good post. normals are living miserable lives as well but they just have families and act positive all the time.
good post. normals are living miserable lives as well but they just have families and act positive all the time.
>>193464
It leads to worse outcomes. If you adopt fatalism and just shrug if you are in a bad situation then you give up without a fight. Maybe if you tried to do something you could have made your situation a lot better. I know there were times in my life when I had to do something, otherwise my life would have turned out much worse.
>>193467
Denying free will is like denying that you are even alive. It is so ridiculous, really what can you say to things like this? It's not like you provided any decisive argument either. Can you choose to reply to my posts or not? If you say you can't you are lying to yourself and to me.
It leads to worse outcomes. If you adopt fatalism and just shrug if you are in a bad situation then you give up without a fight. Maybe if you tried to do something you could have made your situation a lot better. I know there were times in my life when I had to do something, otherwise my life would have turned out much worse.
>>193467
Denying free will is like denying that you are even alive. It is so ridiculous, really what can you say to things like this? It's not like you provided any decisive argument either. Can you choose to reply to my posts or not? If you say you can't you are lying to yourself and to me.
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