There is nothing wrong with depression or "mental illness". The most depressed wizard makes more realistic, coherent inferences than "regular people".
Why haven't you embraced philosophy yet? You'll get rid of your material chains, then there will be only senseless despair. Then you'll be more coherent and enlightened than ever.
Why haven't you embraced philosophy yet? You'll get rid of your material chains, then there will be only senseless despair. Then you'll be more coherent and enlightened than ever.
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You are incorrect. Negative frameworks result in negative experiences which result in unhappiness and suffering. Take control of your consciousness please.
>>231915
Have you been reading my posts here too often? I jest, but since we think the same I wonder how you came to your conclusion. If I can understand you it may help to understand myself. Where did your journey to this thought begin wiz?
Have you been reading my posts here too often? I jest, but since we think the same I wonder how you came to your conclusion. If I can understand you it may help to understand myself. Where did your journey to this thought begin wiz?
>>231916
The only valid, necessary and true knowledge that exists is the knowledge of how to be happy.
>>231918
Happiness is subjective and it differs from person to person. However, everyone desires happiness in his own way.
Also, "depressive realism" is an oxymoron. You can't be depressed and realistic at once. The term depression implies that you are sick in some way. That is why should leave behind normalfag words like "depression". Just say you are a hyper-realist instead.
The only valid, necessary and true knowledge that exists is the knowledge of how to be happy.
>>231918
Happiness is subjective and it differs from person to person. However, everyone desires happiness in his own way.
Also, "depressive realism" is an oxymoron. You can't be depressed and realistic at once. The term depression implies that you are sick in some way. That is why should leave behind normalfag words like "depression". Just say you are a hyper-realist instead.
>>231921
>Have you been reading my posts here too often?
No, we're all equally wizards.
>I wonder how you came to your conclusion
Having no freedom or relief in life or death. Facing homelesness, financial ruin and disease. Parents likely to get me some jail time. Being crazy in the third world. Lawyer telling me there is nothing I can do for childhood abuse, being hit senseless by parents since I was born until graduating high school. Never getting over trauma, let trauma turn into alcoholism and drug addiction. Surviving voluntary and involuntary overdoses. Being third wordler, work or starve to death and no one cares. The list goes on. Let this go for a decade or more.
Let despair go for a long time while being optimistic about life. You see things clearly as they are.
Got a question for you. To be or not to be? Which one and why?
>Have you been reading my posts here too often?
No, we're all equally wizards.
>I wonder how you came to your conclusion
Having no freedom or relief in life or death. Facing homelesness, financial ruin and disease. Parents likely to get me some jail time. Being crazy in the third world. Lawyer telling me there is nothing I can do for childhood abuse, being hit senseless by parents since I was born until graduating high school. Never getting over trauma, let trauma turn into alcoholism and drug addiction. Surviving voluntary and involuntary overdoses. Being third wordler, work or starve to death and no one cares. The list goes on. Let this go for a decade or more.
Let despair go for a long time while being optimistic about life. You see things clearly as they are.
Got a question for you. To be or not to be? Which one and why?
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>>231923
Happiness is not natural or permanent, despair is both. Why should a wizard live his life chasing a dream instead of embracing pain, death and despair?
To fit in with a society that abhors us? To escape unpleasant truths? What's the point of that.
Happiness is not natural or permanent, despair is both. Why should a wizard live his life chasing a dream instead of embracing pain, death and despair?
To fit in with a society that abhors us? To escape unpleasant truths? What's the point of that.
>>231925
To be of course, for why else would I currently be if I did not wish to be? As you said there is nothing wrong with depression, if I was not unhappy or happy I would only be left in a state of living death. Despair is meaning itself, and the lack-of is only nothingness. Apathy and death, what difference is there between the two? I reach for life, even if it is all suffering, and if it is all suffering then I shall grasp it with a loving embrace while never letting go.
To be of course, for why else would I currently be if I did not wish to be? As you said there is nothing wrong with depression, if I was not unhappy or happy I would only be left in a state of living death. Despair is meaning itself, and the lack-of is only nothingness. Apathy and death, what difference is there between the two? I reach for life, even if it is all suffering, and if it is all suffering then I shall grasp it with a loving embrace while never letting go.
>>231926
Who says that "natural" and "permanent" are necessarily good things?
>chasing a dream
Just because you don't know what makes you happy you shouldn't dismiss happiness entirely as an illusion.
>embracing pain/death/despair
Pain: you won't get anything out of it except being miserable.
Death: you can embrace death while striving for happiness at the same time.
Despair: same as with pain.
>To fit in with a society that abhors us?
Society has nothing to do with happiness.
>To escape unpleasant truths?
Dwelling on unpleasant truths won't get you anywhere.
In short, there is simply no reason to refuse happiness. Striving for individual happiness should be the meaning of everyone's life.
Who says that "natural" and "permanent" are necessarily good things?
>chasing a dream
Just because you don't know what makes you happy you shouldn't dismiss happiness entirely as an illusion.
>embracing pain/death/despair
Pain: you won't get anything out of it except being miserable.
Death: you can embrace death while striving for happiness at the same time.
Despair: same as with pain.
>To fit in with a society that abhors us?
Society has nothing to do with happiness.
>To escape unpleasant truths?
Dwelling on unpleasant truths won't get you anywhere.
In short, there is simply no reason to refuse happiness. Striving for individual happiness should be the meaning of everyone's life.
>>231929
Valid answer. There's no right answer. What matters is the way you explain your "why". I think me some years ago I would have answered the same. Camus said one should imagine Sisyphus happy and I blindly followed that. But it's not the same for a wizard to contemplate death vs. actually dying and that changed my mind with some things.
>>231927
What's "different" about despair? Look at the universe and what we perceive as life, it's constantly wiping itself.
If anything, despair is what's natural, not different.
Valid answer. There's no right answer. What matters is the way you explain your "why". I think me some years ago I would have answered the same. Camus said one should imagine Sisyphus happy and I blindly followed that. But it's not the same for a wizard to contemplate death vs. actually dying and that changed my mind with some things.
>>231927
What's "different" about despair? Look at the universe and what we perceive as life, it's constantly wiping itself.
If anything, despair is what's natural, not different.
>>231931
I'll entertain your idea. Fine I want to chase happiness. Liquors and drugs are the only thing that make me happy. I'm clean but feeling very bad. What should this wizard do?
I'll entertain your idea. Fine I want to chase happiness. Liquors and drugs are the only thing that make me happy. I'm clean but feeling very bad. What should this wizard do?
>>231932
I always thought people like Camus were completely wrong and I never once accepted optimistic-like thinking. One should look at Sisyphus and realize he is not happy. Delusional optimism is pathetic in my eyes, I accept that Sisyphus is deeply unhappy and I have no problem with that. Even If he is unhappy he still chooses to be rather than not be, so to I still choose to be rather than not to be.
In my eyes those closest to actually dying are closest to life, a poetic statement but I do think it is true. Personally I've had a few close encounters with death, and during those periods is when I felt most in tune with living.
I always thought people like Camus were completely wrong and I never once accepted optimistic-like thinking. One should look at Sisyphus and realize he is not happy. Delusional optimism is pathetic in my eyes, I accept that Sisyphus is deeply unhappy and I have no problem with that. Even If he is unhappy he still chooses to be rather than not be, so to I still choose to be rather than not to be.
In my eyes those closest to actually dying are closest to life, a poetic statement but I do think it is true. Personally I've had a few close encounters with death, and during those periods is when I felt most in tune with living.
>>231946
Sisyphus may well feel a drive to continue the senseless action but very much could consider it best to let the rock roll over the top of him.
Just because we have a rive to survive does not mean we are happy.
Sisyphus may well feel a drive to continue the senseless action but very much could consider it best to let the rock roll over the top of him.
Just because we have a rive to survive does not mean we are happy.
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If you could choose your life, both your immediate surroundings and your psychological state - there's a 100% chance you would chose being happy and fulfilled rather than your "depressive realism".
The only argument towards happiness is: I'm powerless to attain it, I do not understand life or the world enough to organize it to my will, therefore I will simply empty my mind of the idea of happiness so that it doesn't torment me as a possible reality.
The position of the "depressive realist" truly is pathetic and contradictory. He claims to understand everything, yet he cannot even figure a single possible path for his own personal happiness, justifying his own ignorance by claiming there is no such thing.
His idea of "correctness" is also pathetic. One could observe his current state in the most accurate manner and yet fail to see the potential in his own actions and the world around him. To say, "I am unintelligent" is to fail to see the potential of education, to say "I am weak" is to fail to see the potential of physical training. The "depressive realist" cannot see beyond the current immediate moment and despite his accurate measurement of his current situation, he is myopic to the bigger picture. He fails to see REALITY for what it truly is - POTENTIAL.
The only argument towards happiness is: I'm powerless to attain it, I do not understand life or the world enough to organize it to my will, therefore I will simply empty my mind of the idea of happiness so that it doesn't torment me as a possible reality.
The position of the "depressive realist" truly is pathetic and contradictory. He claims to understand everything, yet he cannot even figure a single possible path for his own personal happiness, justifying his own ignorance by claiming there is no such thing.
His idea of "correctness" is also pathetic. One could observe his current state in the most accurate manner and yet fail to see the potential in his own actions and the world around him. To say, "I am unintelligent" is to fail to see the potential of education, to say "I am weak" is to fail to see the potential of physical training. The "depressive realist" cannot see beyond the current immediate moment and despite his accurate measurement of his current situation, he is myopic to the bigger picture. He fails to see REALITY for what it truly is - POTENTIAL.
>>231948
Yet he did not let the rock do so. So what if he is unhappy with his endless actions, each time the rock falls down it bounces ever so differently, does one need to be happy in order to live? Is happiness your end goal or do you have something else in mind?
Yet he did not let the rock do so. So what if he is unhappy with his endless actions, each time the rock falls down it bounces ever so differently, does one need to be happy in order to live? Is happiness your end goal or do you have something else in mind?
The Sisyphus example has always been retarded. It implies that life is inherently nothing but a chore. A more fitting example would be Sisyphus getting tied up and banged in the ass by someone for eternity. This is a better example because some people would enjoy this and others would hate it. That is how life is. For some it is a pleasurable easy-ride while for yet others it is a torture.
>>231949
You may have a point about peoples perceptions being skewed by their mental state however I would like to see you argue against pessimism as it concerns the big picture.
You may have a point about peoples perceptions being skewed by their mental state however I would like to see you argue against pessimism as it concerns the big picture.
>>231949
>POTENTIAL BRO
Peak normalfaggotry, accept genetic reality. Some are born better or worse than others, any other answer is you coping with having to manage if free will exists or not. That or you believe in a fantasy magic immaterial world, in which case you do you brother.
>POTENTIAL BRO
Peak normalfaggotry, accept genetic reality. Some are born better or worse than others, any other answer is you coping with having to manage if free will exists or not. That or you believe in a fantasy magic immaterial world, in which case you do you brother.
>>231949
Potential for what? I can guarantee you I've entertained any idea I had. Music, lifting, writing, having a "nice job". I already accomplished all I wanted. Happiness is transitory and shouldn't be the "meaning" of life because there's simply no meaning to life.
>why not kill yourself yet
Have not written my philosophy of life in my native tongue and self publish it for giggles. Also I realized contemplating my death and actually experience my death are totlly different things and I yet can't rationalizr why I fear actually dying. This is coming from someone that has atempted suicide multiple times. Also accidentally overdosed many times and I can't explain why I always begged for life before passing out.
Potential for what? I can guarantee you I've entertained any idea I had. Music, lifting, writing, having a "nice job". I already accomplished all I wanted. Happiness is transitory and shouldn't be the "meaning" of life because there's simply no meaning to life.
>why not kill yourself yet
Have not written my philosophy of life in my native tongue and self publish it for giggles. Also I realized contemplating my death and actually experience my death are totlly different things and I yet can't rationalizr why I fear actually dying. This is coming from someone that has atempted suicide multiple times. Also accidentally overdosed many times and I can't explain why I always begged for life before passing out.
>>231962
Not him, but happiness is a choice. If you really wanted to be 100% happy always at ALL COSTS then you would have embraced stoicism long ago. The mind is what makes Heaven out of Hell.
Not him, but happiness is a choice. If you really wanted to be 100% happy always at ALL COSTS then you would have embraced stoicism long ago. The mind is what makes Heaven out of Hell.
>>231966
>100% happy
>embraced stoicism
Don't speak on things you don't understand, Stoicism is not Epicureanism nor Hedonism. It's goal is not happiness and requires you to do things that would make you "unhappy". Stoicism values virtue, not some pathetic never ending "100% happy".
>100% happy
>embraced stoicism
Don't speak on things you don't understand, Stoicism is not Epicureanism nor Hedonism. It's goal is not happiness and requires you to do things that would make you "unhappy". Stoicism values virtue, not some pathetic never ending "100% happy".
>>231966
Yes I'll think myself happy. I never thought of that.
Then I'll have a wizwife that cook tendies and wizkids of my own too :^)
Yes I'll think myself happy. I never thought of that.
Then I'll have a wizwife that cook tendies and wizkids of my own too :^)
>>231969
I can tell that you get your understanding of greek philosophy from Wikipedia articles. Hedonia is not happiness, eudaimonia is happiness.
I can tell that you get your understanding of greek philosophy from Wikipedia articles. Hedonia is not happiness, eudaimonia is happiness.
>>231969
No, you don't speak on things you don't understand. Stoicism advocates killing your self basically and adjusting to reality as it is. If you experience something as bad or painful then the matter is with you - say the stoics at least. Stoicism is basically about lobotomizing yourself. Kill your individuality and you will kill all sources of pain and suffering.
>values virtue
So do other philosophies, each philosophy has its own set of virtues. Stoicism values manly calmness, endurance and inner peace/strength most of all.
>>231970
No, you don't get it. The problem is that you want things. If you stop wanting things to be your way then you will always be happy. That is it.
No, you don't speak on things you don't understand. Stoicism advocates killing your self basically and adjusting to reality as it is. If you experience something as bad or painful then the matter is with you - say the stoics at least. Stoicism is basically about lobotomizing yourself. Kill your individuality and you will kill all sources of pain and suffering.
>values virtue
So do other philosophies, each philosophy has its own set of virtues. Stoicism values manly calmness, endurance and inner peace/strength most of all.
>>231970
No, you don't get it. The problem is that you want things. If you stop wanting things to be your way then you will always be happy. That is it.
>>231962
Typical of the "depressed realist" to claim that he has already calculated all the odds, already seen the future and what it holds, namely nothing. There is no potential, it is all a "fantasy magic immaterial world" unlike the future predicted entirely by my genetic makeup. He already knows the outcome of every single game before it plays out. Silly children, the score is 40-29 for the other team, you might as well go home now, I will save you from this uncertain future of yours. Don't you feel better now, having already seen the outcome thus having no need to play it out?
This is the "depressive realist" which sees life for what it truly is, a game that is already finished, predicted and avoided. By his calculations, there is nothing to be done, time is only a temptation created by the devil, letting us live hopefully in uncertain futures.
Typical of the "depressed realist" to claim that he has already calculated all the odds, already seen the future and what it holds, namely nothing. There is no potential, it is all a "fantasy magic immaterial world" unlike the future predicted entirely by my genetic makeup. He already knows the outcome of every single game before it plays out. Silly children, the score is 40-29 for the other team, you might as well go home now, I will save you from this uncertain future of yours. Don't you feel better now, having already seen the outcome thus having no need to play it out?
This is the "depressive realist" which sees life for what it truly is, a game that is already finished, predicted and avoided. By his calculations, there is nothing to be done, time is only a temptation created by the devil, letting us live hopefully in uncertain futures.
>>231971
Not him but I think that wiz clearly knows the difference between epicurean hedonism and the modern usage of the word "hedonism".
Also I've never read a single philosophical book and I'm being able to entertain my brain in this thread despite english being a tongue I rarely use in my daily life. Which furthers my belief that there's no point in parroting stuff.
Not him but I think that wiz clearly knows the difference between epicurean hedonism and the modern usage of the word "hedonism".
Also I've never read a single philosophical book and I'm being able to entertain my brain in this thread despite english being a tongue I rarely use in my daily life. Which furthers my belief that there's no point in parroting stuff.
>>231971
Nice adhom, too bad it's wrong. Stoic eudaimonia is not only completely different in nature to the hedonists and epicurean views, but also merely a consequence of virtue for stoics and not the end goal. You are a moronic baboon pretending to know more than he does.
>>231973
>you don't understand
>Stoicism advocates killing your self basically
Ok retard.
Nice adhom, too bad it's wrong. Stoic eudaimonia is not only completely different in nature to the hedonists and epicurean views, but also merely a consequence of virtue for stoics and not the end goal. You are a moronic baboon pretending to know more than he does.
>>231973
>you don't understand
>Stoicism advocates killing your self basically
Ok retard.
>>231973
But I don't want anything. I already accomplished things. I can say I am virtuous out of whim. What were we arguing about?
But I don't want anything. I already accomplished things. I can say I am virtuous out of whim. What were we arguing about?
>>231976
Explain how stoicism doesn't involve getting rid of your individuality instead of giving one word insults and then maybe we can have a decent conversation going, wizkid.
Explain how stoicism doesn't involve getting rid of your individuality instead of giving one word insults and then maybe we can have a decent conversation going, wizkid.
>>231978
Your mistake is thinking I plan to have a decent conversation with a you, I do get to choose who I will or will not converse with. This will be my last reply to you unless you later sneak into one of my other comments, later wiztard.
Your mistake is thinking I plan to have a decent conversation with a you, I do get to choose who I will or will not converse with. This will be my last reply to you unless you later sneak into one of my other comments, later wiztard.
>>231980
>being this pathetic
>can't stand losing this much
>in a discussion on an anonymous imageboard
Run away, wizteen.
>being this pathetic
>can't stand losing this much
>in a discussion on an anonymous imageboard
Run away, wizteen.
>>231978
I am not a stoic and I disagree with you both but I agree with you more.
I see stoicism in context. A time when it was unthinkable not to think about heavens, the gods or hells. Stoicism was the existential answer of its time. "This world sucks, what do the gods want from me and how should I achieve that?". That's how they thought, the wizards of their era.
I am not a stoic and I disagree with you both but I agree with you more.
I see stoicism in context. A time when it was unthinkable not to think about heavens, the gods or hells. Stoicism was the existential answer of its time. "This world sucks, what do the gods want from me and how should I achieve that?". That's how they thought, the wizards of their era.
>>231974
Listen my normalfag chad improvebrah, by 25~ you should know what you are and aren't capable of. If not then you are a manchild who is scared to reflect on himself and his own faculties. That or you have never attempted to do anything at all and thus left every "potential" as an abstract idea to be debated on. Face reality, you aren't special, you are 1 of 7 billion people (currently) on earth, and you are contained by your own physical matter.
Listen my normalfag chad improvebrah, by 25~ you should know what you are and aren't capable of. If not then you are a manchild who is scared to reflect on himself and his own faculties. That or you have never attempted to do anything at all and thus left every "potential" as an abstract idea to be debated on. Face reality, you aren't special, you are 1 of 7 billion people (currently) on earth, and you are contained by your own physical matter.
c-cant we all be wizfriends in a magical way? Even if we disagree on things we can give long, coherent explanations on why or why not, and retort back and forth.
Non-wizzies will never give us that pleasure.
Non-wizzies will never give us that pleasure.
>>231984
Aye, it is I who is scared to face reality and not the man that has already resigned himself at the ripe age of 25, seemingly incapable of any action, his brain already filled up to the limit, his muscles with no room to grow. Pessimism is a safe position from which nothing is required of you, if there is no potential, you are justified in standing still, relieved that you do not have face an uncertain future, potential loses, to go towards something without evidence that it will work out. Yes, it is the immature man that goes into the unknown, that dares to dream and hope. If he is successful then it was determined and self-evident already, there was no courage involved, just cold calculation. And if he has lost, then he didn't plug in the numbers correctly into the formula before he attempted something.
The reality of potential is truly unforgiving. It only takes a belief to destroy entire worlds of possibility, to "constrain" oneself to only the actuality of existence and then prove to oneself that this is all there is and ever will be. How sad it is to not understand that one's prediction of the future is one of the variables which determines it.
I'll leave you to your static existence where nothing truly moves, only singular moments that flash in a corresponding order and where each moment does not depend on the last. You got about 40-50 more years of this film super-imposed to your eyelids, so enjoy being "correct".
Aye, it is I who is scared to face reality and not the man that has already resigned himself at the ripe age of 25, seemingly incapable of any action, his brain already filled up to the limit, his muscles with no room to grow. Pessimism is a safe position from which nothing is required of you, if there is no potential, you are justified in standing still, relieved that you do not have face an uncertain future, potential loses, to go towards something without evidence that it will work out. Yes, it is the immature man that goes into the unknown, that dares to dream and hope. If he is successful then it was determined and self-evident already, there was no courage involved, just cold calculation. And if he has lost, then he didn't plug in the numbers correctly into the formula before he attempted something.
The reality of potential is truly unforgiving. It only takes a belief to destroy entire worlds of possibility, to "constrain" oneself to only the actuality of existence and then prove to oneself that this is all there is and ever will be. How sad it is to not understand that one's prediction of the future is one of the variables which determines it.
I'll leave you to your static existence where nothing truly moves, only singular moments that flash in a corresponding order and where each moment does not depend on the last. You got about 40-50 more years of this film super-imposed to your eyelids, so enjoy being "correct".
>>231988
Yes, yes, very poetic wizchad, yet what are you progressing and dreaming towards? What is the final goal? Well lets be honest, you never think of that (or think at all). You goal is itself, you improve to improve! What defines improving? Ignore that. What are you improving for? Ignore that. Are you simply ignoring reality and using improving the same way a video game player does to escape reality? Ignore that.
Wizchad here thinks as long as you dream of being the world's fastest man, that anyone can do it! No, sorry, he doesn't actually, what he will say is that if you don't dream then you will never be the fastest ever. A self fulfilling prophecy he will say. Yet what exactly does he mean? He deflects from answering if there are physical constraints, because that would require self reflection. You would have to accurately accept reality to make a proper judgement, rather than poetic nonsense of "dreams and hope". Wizchad is incapable of doing so because he basing his ego on if others are better or worse than himself. He believes that he "worked hard" to stand above others, rather than simply come out and say "I (or someone else) was born superior and really that is why I (or more likely someone else) am better than this other person".
He cannot question the immaterial magic concept of free will, such a thought is far too scary for himself. Better just keep "improving" instead. Escape reality wizchad, never look back on that scary monster! You are in control of your destiny, fire a real kamehameha, do a real flaming shorykun, make a theory of everything that revolutionizes the world, become the worlds most famous human ever, become God himself, hell do all of that all in one lifespan! Its easy, just dream and hope!!!!
Yes, yes, very poetic wizchad, yet what are you progressing and dreaming towards? What is the final goal? Well lets be honest, you never think of that (or think at all). You goal is itself, you improve to improve! What defines improving? Ignore that. What are you improving for? Ignore that. Are you simply ignoring reality and using improving the same way a video game player does to escape reality? Ignore that.
Wizchad here thinks as long as you dream of being the world's fastest man, that anyone can do it! No, sorry, he doesn't actually, what he will say is that if you don't dream then you will never be the fastest ever. A self fulfilling prophecy he will say. Yet what exactly does he mean? He deflects from answering if there are physical constraints, because that would require self reflection. You would have to accurately accept reality to make a proper judgement, rather than poetic nonsense of "dreams and hope". Wizchad is incapable of doing so because he basing his ego on if others are better or worse than himself. He believes that he "worked hard" to stand above others, rather than simply come out and say "I (or someone else) was born superior and really that is why I (or more likely someone else) am better than this other person".
He cannot question the immaterial magic concept of free will, such a thought is far too scary for himself. Better just keep "improving" instead. Escape reality wizchad, never look back on that scary monster! You are in control of your destiny, fire a real kamehameha, do a real flaming shorykun, make a theory of everything that revolutionizes the world, become the worlds most famous human ever, become God himself, hell do all of that all in one lifespan! Its easy, just dream and hope!!!!
>>231988
>Pessimism is a safe position from which nothing is required of you
Yes, you're correct, because we're irrelevant. If the universe is irrational and unforgiving, why keep trying?
And again, you're assuming the other wizard hasn't tried and achived things. I can deadlift thrice my bodyweight for more than 5 reps. I'm profficient in many instruments. I started writing poetry in my native tongue. Got the corporate job. List goes on.
Everything I accomplish or not is irrelevant. The spirit of pessimism still stands and holds truth. Granted, I could "improve" everything, but why? For what purpose if I don't mind anymore?
>Pessimism is a safe position from which nothing is required of you
Yes, you're correct, because we're irrelevant. If the universe is irrational and unforgiving, why keep trying?
And again, you're assuming the other wizard hasn't tried and achived things. I can deadlift thrice my bodyweight for more than 5 reps. I'm profficient in many instruments. I started writing poetry in my native tongue. Got the corporate job. List goes on.
Everything I accomplish or not is irrelevant. The spirit of pessimism still stands and holds truth. Granted, I could "improve" everything, but why? For what purpose if I don't mind anymore?
>>231991
Despite your insults, at the end of the day, you are the one that is unhappy and confused about life, the one with no purpose, that waits for others to spoon feed him on what he should do, to explain to him how to stop tying his own shoelaces together and tripping before the race even starts and predicting his own failure with glee.
I don't even need to waste time disproving your little philosophy when I already see the end result of living it out in your own example. If one follows your "mature" stance on life, one can only hope to resign the moment he reaches 25 and to spend the rest of his life justifying his failures with genetics and bad luck.
>>231993
The purpose of doing things is to align yourself and the world with your ideal reality. If those things never brought you any satisfaction, then they were never truly important to you, you just did them to pass the time or to fulfill some other person's ideal. Being happy is simply a side-effect of seeing things you care about going well, and the first step towards that is understanding what you care about.
Finding your purpose is very simple because it's deeply instinctual, you just have to let yourself consider honestly what an ideal reality would look like, something which would be worth any manner of suffering and effort required to achieve it. If you claim that you cannot bring such an image in your mind, you're either being dishonest or you're afraid of the implications of wanting it, all of the things that will be required of you on your path to bringing it to actuality.
Despite your insults, at the end of the day, you are the one that is unhappy and confused about life, the one with no purpose, that waits for others to spoon feed him on what he should do, to explain to him how to stop tying his own shoelaces together and tripping before the race even starts and predicting his own failure with glee.
I don't even need to waste time disproving your little philosophy when I already see the end result of living it out in your own example. If one follows your "mature" stance on life, one can only hope to resign the moment he reaches 25 and to spend the rest of his life justifying his failures with genetics and bad luck.
>>231993
The purpose of doing things is to align yourself and the world with your ideal reality. If those things never brought you any satisfaction, then they were never truly important to you, you just did them to pass the time or to fulfill some other person's ideal. Being happy is simply a side-effect of seeing things you care about going well, and the first step towards that is understanding what you care about.
Finding your purpose is very simple because it's deeply instinctual, you just have to let yourself consider honestly what an ideal reality would look like, something which would be worth any manner of suffering and effort required to achieve it. If you claim that you cannot bring such an image in your mind, you're either being dishonest or you're afraid of the implications of wanting it, all of the things that will be required of you on your path to bringing it to actuality.
>>231995
>I don't even need to waste time disproving your little philosophy
I accept your concession wizchad.
>I don't even need to waste time disproving your little philosophy
I accept your concession wizchad.
>>231997
Well despite all your poetics about hope, dreams, and progress you gave up the argument on our philosophies. I merely accepted your concession in light of that.
Well despite all your poetics about hope, dreams, and progress you gave up the argument on our philosophies. I merely accepted your concession in light of that.
>>231998
It seems you only read one sentence and didn't understand the actual argument behind my reply. I don't need to disprove your philosophy because you already provided an example of what awaits a man that follows it - unhappiness, stagnation and despair. Why should one follow this inane life philosophy if this is all there is to hope for? You simply made a virtue out of being aware of your own limits and only to provide an excuse to resign, even though the knowledge of one's limits can often help one transcend them. And you never really explained how one can predict the future so effortlessly (genetics has only mild predictive power at best).
It seems you only read one sentence and didn't understand the actual argument behind my reply. I don't need to disprove your philosophy because you already provided an example of what awaits a man that follows it - unhappiness, stagnation and despair. Why should one follow this inane life philosophy if this is all there is to hope for? You simply made a virtue out of being aware of your own limits and only to provide an excuse to resign, even though the knowledge of one's limits can often help one transcend them. And you never really explained how one can predict the future so effortlessly (genetics has only mild predictive power at best).
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>>231915
Why the fuck would I want to be "realistic" if my life is shit?
Why the fuck would I want to be "realistic" if my life is shit?
>>231999
>unhappiness, stagnation and despair.
All you have done is stated this happens, yet you fail to make any argument against this. In typical normalfag fashion you act as if this merely automatically means you win. This is because you have just repackaged basic normalfag hedonism and pretended otherwise. If someone were to be happy sitting in a room masturbating the entire day then you would have no argument against it. Sorry, you would have a problem with that, suddenly suffering would be an ok thing as long as you are "improving". As I said before, you are too scared to look at reality and why one should "improve" at all, what improving is, or if your improving is just a form of escapism.
>unhappiness, stagnation and despair.
All you have done is stated this happens, yet you fail to make any argument against this. In typical normalfag fashion you act as if this merely automatically means you win. This is because you have just repackaged basic normalfag hedonism and pretended otherwise. If someone were to be happy sitting in a room masturbating the entire day then you would have no argument against it. Sorry, you would have a problem with that, suddenly suffering would be an ok thing as long as you are "improving". As I said before, you are too scared to look at reality and why one should "improve" at all, what improving is, or if your improving is just a form of escapism.
>>232003
It's not about "improving" at all. I was pretty clear that doing things should be done in order to reach an ideal reality. With that in mind, one's purpose is self-evident, to bring about one's desired reality and happiness the the side-effect of perceiving that reality becoming actuality.
I don't really care about how people live their lives, but let me tell you why the person who jerks off all day in their room is unlikely to be actually happy. Because by definition, masturbation is a simulation of the real act. In his ideal reality, he would be the one fucking the porn star instead of collecting terabytes of footage in order to delude oneself for a moment.
It's not about "improving" at all. I was pretty clear that doing things should be done in order to reach an ideal reality. With that in mind, one's purpose is self-evident, to bring about one's desired reality and happiness the the side-effect of perceiving that reality becoming actuality.
I don't really care about how people live their lives, but let me tell you why the person who jerks off all day in their room is unlikely to be actually happy. Because by definition, masturbation is a simulation of the real act. In his ideal reality, he would be the one fucking the porn star instead of collecting terabytes of footage in order to delude oneself for a moment.
>>232004
Not him but I stoppes reading when you used the word "desire". Any wizard that desires is chained. Desire is poison. The wizard that desire nothing is enlightened, same as the wizard that achieves and renounces. The means by which the wizard reaches the conclusion are irrelevant.
I still respect your thoughts,assuming you're a wizard. Insults and "winning" must be irrelevant among us.
Not him but I stoppes reading when you used the word "desire". Any wizard that desires is chained. Desire is poison. The wizard that desire nothing is enlightened, same as the wizard that achieves and renounces. The means by which the wizard reaches the conclusion are irrelevant.
I still respect your thoughts,assuming you're a wizard. Insults and "winning" must be irrelevant among us.
>>232004
Ideal reality? So in other words you are admitting that you reject actual reality in favor of something that does not exist. Thus proving that this is merely escapism for you, that you and a video game player are no different.
Lets pretend I don't attack this "ideal reality" as a form of escapism. This still loops right back to what I previously stated where I attacked your idea of "dreams and hopes" with "as long as you dream of being the world's fastest man, that anyone can do it!…" AND the continuing lines after that. This "ideal reality" you use to justify your hopes and dreams is in-fact exactly that which you justify, in other words you have what is called circular reasoning. You hope and dream for the sake of your ideal reality, which is just your hopes and dreams again.
As a third front I can just say that the masturbation man's ideal reality is fapping, many men find pornography more satisfying than even their current sexual partners. Which means you have no argument against it, despite you so wanting to be against such a thing.
Finally you still haven't actually answer any of my questions before, you haven't said why someone should follow this "ideal reality", in other words why should someone "improve" at all. You cannot answer this because you follow normalfag hedonism, you simply haven't thought enough to realize that. Thinking yourself as revolutionary, you don't realize your thinking is the peakest of all peak normalfaggotry. You want to feel good, everything else is secondary; it is not the "side effect" you pretend it is, it is the final goal and result itself that you care about. You even show it off when you pretend that unhappiness is enough to prove someone wrong.
>>232008
>I'm a hedonist and I don't like people people saying my philosophy is for normalfags
Sorry sweetie, but it is.
Ideal reality? So in other words you are admitting that you reject actual reality in favor of something that does not exist. Thus proving that this is merely escapism for you, that you and a video game player are no different.
Lets pretend I don't attack this "ideal reality" as a form of escapism. This still loops right back to what I previously stated where I attacked your idea of "dreams and hopes" with "as long as you dream of being the world's fastest man, that anyone can do it!…" AND the continuing lines after that. This "ideal reality" you use to justify your hopes and dreams is in-fact exactly that which you justify, in other words you have what is called circular reasoning. You hope and dream for the sake of your ideal reality, which is just your hopes and dreams again.
As a third front I can just say that the masturbation man's ideal reality is fapping, many men find pornography more satisfying than even their current sexual partners. Which means you have no argument against it, despite you so wanting to be against such a thing.
Finally you still haven't actually answer any of my questions before, you haven't said why someone should follow this "ideal reality", in other words why should someone "improve" at all. You cannot answer this because you follow normalfag hedonism, you simply haven't thought enough to realize that. Thinking yourself as revolutionary, you don't realize your thinking is the peakest of all peak normalfaggotry. You want to feel good, everything else is secondary; it is not the "side effect" you pretend it is, it is the final goal and result itself that you care about. You even show it off when you pretend that unhappiness is enough to prove someone wrong.
>>232008
>I'm a hedonist and I don't like people people saying my philosophy is for normalfags
Sorry sweetie, but it is.
>>232010
>Ideal reality? So in other words you are admitting that you reject actual reality in favor of something that does not exist. Thus proving that this is merely escapism for you, that you and a video game player are no different.
I'm talking about a completely self-evident phenomenon, something as banal as drinking water when you are thirsty, "rejecting" the actuality of thirst for the potential reality of satiation through your own behavior. Before you engaged in the behavior of lifting the glass, you were self-aware enough to understand your actual needs so you didn't go eat sand or drink out of the toilet. Is drinking water escapism? Are you being immature for not accepting your thirst? What you are saying is non-sensical and completely misses the point.
>This "ideal reality" you use to justify your hopes and dreams is in-fact exactly that which you justify, in other words you have what is called circular reasoning.
Not sure I understand this, maybe you could further elaborate. The "ideal reality" is simply an expression of your needs, which you figure out by being self-observant and honest with yourself. If you dream about "being the fastest man in the world", behind this ideal reality is a need that is being fulfilled, probably the need to be respected, famous and so on, which can be achieved in any number of ways.
>As a third front I can just say that the masturbation man's ideal reality is fapping, many men find pornography more satisfying than even their current sexual partners. Which means you have no argument against it, despite you so wanting to be against such a thing.
You're working very hard to pin this whole "improvebrah" strawman on me, but I don't care about what people do with their lives. Someone can be dishonest and claim he is satisfied with masturbation only, but he is the one that has to deal with the consequences of this, his personal happiness is his own responsibility. Again, at the end of day, I gain nothing from people following my advice or not.
>Finally you still haven't actually answer any of my questions before, you haven't said why someone should follow this "ideal reality", in other words why should someone "improve" at all. You cannot answer this because you follow normalfag hedonism, you simply haven't thought enough to realize that. Thinking yourself as revolutionary, you don't realize your thinking is the peakest of all peak normalfaggotry. You want to feel good, everything else is secondary; it is not the "side effect" you pretend it is, it is the final goal and result itself that you care about. You even show it off when you pretend that unhappiness is enough to prove someone wrong.
First of all, "improving" is a tool, not the purpose itself. Secondly, why are you pretending like "feeling good" is simply a random state of mind with no connection to reality? Being human means being a biological machine that has evolved over millions of years and "feeling good" is an indication that our self and our surroundings are in an "ideal" state - we are fed, clothed, safe, loved, curious etc. If you're looking for a justification, it is found in the body you inhabit, which is why it's difficult to go against it. I'm sure the masturbator would want nothing more than to be satisfied with his current reality, but his body will not let him. Like Nietzsche said, "there is more wisdom in your body than in your deepest philosophy", you only need to listen to it.
To say that this is simply hedonism is also misleading, as one could shoot up heroin and trick oneself into believing all is right in the world (this is usually how addicts describe it), to seek pleasure primarily above all else. That's what an animal would do, like that dumb bear that ate all the cocaine until he overdosed. A wise person will understand that what the body truly seeks is order in the world and the pleasure is a convenient reward, a signal that things are going well. One can obviously abuse that by producing the signal through various substances, biological trickery that never ends well for the person.
>Ideal reality? So in other words you are admitting that you reject actual reality in favor of something that does not exist. Thus proving that this is merely escapism for you, that you and a video game player are no different.
I'm talking about a completely self-evident phenomenon, something as banal as drinking water when you are thirsty, "rejecting" the actuality of thirst for the potential reality of satiation through your own behavior. Before you engaged in the behavior of lifting the glass, you were self-aware enough to understand your actual needs so you didn't go eat sand or drink out of the toilet. Is drinking water escapism? Are you being immature for not accepting your thirst? What you are saying is non-sensical and completely misses the point.
>This "ideal reality" you use to justify your hopes and dreams is in-fact exactly that which you justify, in other words you have what is called circular reasoning.
Not sure I understand this, maybe you could further elaborate. The "ideal reality" is simply an expression of your needs, which you figure out by being self-observant and honest with yourself. If you dream about "being the fastest man in the world", behind this ideal reality is a need that is being fulfilled, probably the need to be respected, famous and so on, which can be achieved in any number of ways.
>As a third front I can just say that the masturbation man's ideal reality is fapping, many men find pornography more satisfying than even their current sexual partners. Which means you have no argument against it, despite you so wanting to be against such a thing.
You're working very hard to pin this whole "improvebrah" strawman on me, but I don't care about what people do with their lives. Someone can be dishonest and claim he is satisfied with masturbation only, but he is the one that has to deal with the consequences of this, his personal happiness is his own responsibility. Again, at the end of day, I gain nothing from people following my advice or not.
>Finally you still haven't actually answer any of my questions before, you haven't said why someone should follow this "ideal reality", in other words why should someone "improve" at all. You cannot answer this because you follow normalfag hedonism, you simply haven't thought enough to realize that. Thinking yourself as revolutionary, you don't realize your thinking is the peakest of all peak normalfaggotry. You want to feel good, everything else is secondary; it is not the "side effect" you pretend it is, it is the final goal and result itself that you care about. You even show it off when you pretend that unhappiness is enough to prove someone wrong.
First of all, "improving" is a tool, not the purpose itself. Secondly, why are you pretending like "feeling good" is simply a random state of mind with no connection to reality? Being human means being a biological machine that has evolved over millions of years and "feeling good" is an indication that our self and our surroundings are in an "ideal" state - we are fed, clothed, safe, loved, curious etc. If you're looking for a justification, it is found in the body you inhabit, which is why it's difficult to go against it. I'm sure the masturbator would want nothing more than to be satisfied with his current reality, but his body will not let him. Like Nietzsche said, "there is more wisdom in your body than in your deepest philosophy", you only need to listen to it.
To say that this is simply hedonism is also misleading, as one could shoot up heroin and trick oneself into believing all is right in the world (this is usually how addicts describe it), to seek pleasure primarily above all else. That's what an animal would do, like that dumb bear that ate all the cocaine until he overdosed. A wise person will understand that what the body truly seeks is order in the world and the pleasure is a convenient reward, a signal that things are going well. One can obviously abuse that by producing the signal through various substances, biological trickery that never ends well for the person.
>>232011
>self-evident phenomenon
Thats not an argument, you are just saying it is proven by itself because you say so. Your other points are completely unrelated to "ideal reality" and seem to be speaking of bodily signals of thirst, which is just reality. Which if that is the case then would be no need for an "ideal reality" terminology and essentially refutes yourself. Make a proper point to what I spoke of or I shall just assume you can't.
>The "ideal reality" is simply an expression of your needs, which you figure out by being self-observant and honest with yourself.
Which is the same as you saying it is self evident. Which means you have no proper argument, you justify" dreams and hopes" with an "ideal reality", and justify following these dreams and hopes with ideal reality with justifies itself again. Circular reasoning.
>I don't care about what people do with their lives.
>Again, at the end of day, I gain nothing from people following my advice or not.
You are ducking the topic besides you can't figure a way around it.
>it is found in the body you inhabit,
So again you come from a self evident state point which means you think it is proven because it is proven. In other words no argument. You also make an appeal to nature here when you speak of the body and its indications. If I ignore that this is an appeal to nature, you state feeling good is an indication of being "ideal", which is the same as stating that feeling good is the result you are looking for; which means you are a hedonist despite your protests. Also quoting Nietzsche does not make me think you are any smarter, are you capable of being your own man and making your own arguments, or will you hide behind the words of others pretending that appeals to authority are an argument?
Besides arguing that your philosophy is merely "self evident" 3 times in a row (which is not an argument at all) and ducking a topic, do you have anything else to add?
>self-evident phenomenon
Thats not an argument, you are just saying it is proven by itself because you say so. Your other points are completely unrelated to "ideal reality" and seem to be speaking of bodily signals of thirst, which is just reality. Which if that is the case then would be no need for an "ideal reality" terminology and essentially refutes yourself. Make a proper point to what I spoke of or I shall just assume you can't.
>The "ideal reality" is simply an expression of your needs, which you figure out by being self-observant and honest with yourself.
Which is the same as you saying it is self evident. Which means you have no proper argument, you justify" dreams and hopes" with an "ideal reality", and justify following these dreams and hopes with ideal reality with justifies itself again. Circular reasoning.
>I don't care about what people do with their lives.
>Again, at the end of day, I gain nothing from people following my advice or not.
You are ducking the topic besides you can't figure a way around it.
>it is found in the body you inhabit,
So again you come from a self evident state point which means you think it is proven because it is proven. In other words no argument. You also make an appeal to nature here when you speak of the body and its indications. If I ignore that this is an appeal to nature, you state feeling good is an indication of being "ideal", which is the same as stating that feeling good is the result you are looking for; which means you are a hedonist despite your protests. Also quoting Nietzsche does not make me think you are any smarter, are you capable of being your own man and making your own arguments, or will you hide behind the words of others pretending that appeals to authority are an argument?
Besides arguing that your philosophy is merely "self evident" 3 times in a row (which is not an argument at all) and ducking a topic, do you have anything else to add?
>>232012
Lol, I remember you and your tactics. Nah, I'm not falling for you weasel bad faith debating a second time, purposefully misrepresenting everything I say and conveniently never arguing for what you believe in. You win, bruv, I said all I wanted to say.
Lol, I remember you and your tactics. Nah, I'm not falling for you weasel bad faith debating a second time, purposefully misrepresenting everything I say and conveniently never arguing for what you believe in. You win, bruv, I said all I wanted to say.
>>232015
>you must be someone else, I better leave because you are this other person
Wizchad wasn't so chad afterall I suppose, your concession is accepted
>you must be someone else, I better leave because you are this other person
Wizchad wasn't so chad afterall I suppose, your concession is accepted
What are your thoughts on the concept of "free will"?
I ask you wizard, do you have free will?
I ask you wizard, do you have free will?
>>232039
>another debate about free will
Haahh…Well, to answer you yes, I do believe in free will. I don't need to argue against free will vehemently on imageboards in order to justify my mistakes and faults like some people on this site.
>another debate about free will
Haahh…Well, to answer you yes, I do believe in free will. I don't need to argue against free will vehemently on imageboards in order to justify my mistakes and faults like some people on this site.
>>232041
>improvebrah wizchad admits to believing in magical free will
Knew and called it since the second you posted here.
>improvebrah wizchad admits to believing in magical free will
Knew and called it since the second you posted here.