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subject says it all. i want to make money doing something i love instead of being a wagecuck (don't we all?), but i have no idea how to monetize my art or my skills. some people might say "don't do it for the money" but i'd really want to get paid to do something actually worthwhile.


OP, do you have any qualms about drawing porn? The traditional E-Z-Mode for an artist to make financially is to draw commissions online of the weirdest fetish porn thinkable. Typically a deviantart page + a link for a commission jar is all that's needed. From what I've seen, you don't even need to be a _good_ artist to do that.


To make it out there and not be some fat cat's wage drone, you have to be creative and do something that nobody else has thought of and, often times, something that no sane person would feel any passion doing. Here's an idea: put an ad in the newspaper that says you will put people's old VHS tapes on DVD if they mail their tapes to your address. There are probably loads of old people who would have no clue how to do such a thing themselves. Old people have lots of money and lack even a basic understanding of technology. Capitalize on it.


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as a matter of fact, i love hentai and i did try to make a business out of it, but no one seemed interested. i think it's because of my shitty art skills, but also because i don't know how to market myself. people like minus8 and spindle make the hentai business look so easy!
i drew this last year and i have been drawing every day… but getting great confidence is a bitch!

i think you're right. it seems to be a recurring theme that all successful businessmen, like elon musk or donald trump, are batshit crazy and don't listen to other people.


>i think it's because of my shitty art skills, but also because i don't know how to market myself. people like minus8 and spindle make the hentai business look so easy!
If you're lower on the art skill ladder, then you basically have to go to the batshit obscure fetishes. If you look at drawn bbw porn from 20 years ago, it was really shitty; but that was because only two or three people were doing it, and so anyone who wanted that stuff had a "beggars can't be choosers" mentality. I'm talking out of my ass here, because I don't know much about business, but even most business people make a big stink about finding a niche. Usually with porn, niches are born in areas that most people find so absolutely disgusting that no artist wants to set foot in that area.


the closest extreme fetish i would consider doing would be vore, but there is already too much bad vore art out there. maybe it's up to me to become a good vore artist hahahahhaa


I'm a paid DM on roll20. Playing 3-4 sessions every week can net you a 400-500$ income monthly.
I streamlined everything, I have premium/bought rulebooks/have custom scripts/readied encounters/have guides for new players-new groups etc.

However, I absolutely hate it. I despise d&d but it is the only system that people want to play, and the influx of masses who are too afraid to dm (which is something I never understand, we all learned by doing mistakes, making stuff up etc. this must be a zoomer thing) creates a market for paid DMs.
I see it as a job, 3-4 times a week I wake up, prepare for an adventure and a session for 4-6 hours and earn 50-100$ in a day.


Interesting. Tell us more.

What are some good and bad experiences you've had doing this? What kinds of players do you prefer to work with?


I'm the typical fa/tg/uy I guess. Been into hobby since late 90s. Played d&d quite a lot but jumped to other system around mid 2000s. Kickstarter and decline of d&d in 4th edition really created a mini renaissance and a surged interest. But 5th edition d&d blow off proportions, I blame criticalrole/strangerthings for this. But 5e dnd was truly the eternal september for the hobby. The gap between someone who started the hobby in 1986 vs 2006 is lower than someone who started the hobby at 2012 vs someone who started it in post 5e craze say 2016 and beyond.
5e really brought a lot of newbies who wanted to play the game but was quite afraid on trying. Previously you got into games often through other veterans, even in 2000s (d20 craze), where you could be introduced through video games or lotr movies, you would eventually had to interact with local gaming clubs, online rpg communities where veterans introduced newbies into hobby. I think this barried was lifted with 5e. You had too many newbies and not enough veterans. Plus podcasts, streaming, Critical Role etc crated very very high expectations, I think this is a recent, post social media age phenomenon but no one wants to be "embarrassed" or make mistakes or learn as they go, everyone wants to have the perfect experience.

This is what grognards like myself(yes I started to call myself one, get sick and tired of boomers who gatekeep, if you have 20+ years you are a grognard) did not understand. "Why would you pay for a dm, just have someone in the group dm for you lul". They fail to understand the new age where people are very very very afraid of trying/learning things as they go/making mistakes. They rather pay 10 to 30 dollars to have an experienced DM.
And this is the market I'm capitalizing on, insecure newbies who are willing to pay for DM's.
I noticed this market when I was trying to have games on roll20, my traveller/call of cthulhu/pendragon games were not getting any applications at all, even my wod games were getting 2-3 applications a week. But I noticed how fast even the shittiest d&d games were filled, often times with dozen or more application. What was far more interesting was that even paid games were getting tons of applications. So I bit the bullet, created a lost mines of phandelver game with 5$ paypal entry fee and I shit you not I got 17 applications in two days, had to refund a lot of people because I didn't calculate there would be this many people, already they were sending me the money lel. I made $30 bucks in 3 hours running the game for 6 people.
After the first game I started to take things seriously, I mean really seriously. I wanted to treat this as a proper business. Created a US based LLC, created a seperate paypal business account. Was mindful of taxes. Bought roll20 premium, bough the modules. Started to study them extensively, created a proper plan of running things smoothly (so I didn't had to prepare 3-4 hours every time some newb wanted to play a module) and it took off. Nowadays as I said I can make 400-500 usd easily post tax. And I think I can make more if I do full time but 500$ is more than enough for me. And I absolutely hate d&d so less is better.
>What are some good and bad experiences you've had doing this?
D&D in itself is a bad experience for me, But I bite my tongue and endure. I really despise the combat focused level based system but this is what market wants so I give them that. I was also a big TSR nerd back then so people get surprised when I talk about the nature of Planes or name the Dwarvish pantheon from memory.
>What kinds of players do you prefer to work with?
Anyone who want to play something other than d&d, hell I would dm for free but again no one is interested in them, so oh well.
I also get some assholes who say they want a refund but have the audacity to try to join into 2nd session, and they call me an asshole when I refuse to let them in, you want out? fine dont come back.


That's really cool. Maybe as you get more reputation you could charge higher rates. Having an experienced DM can really enhance the game, so I guess it isn't surprising people are willing to pay.

I was into tabletop roleplaying back in the 2000s but drifted away from the hobby over time. Like most things in life, it gets ruined when other humans are involved. I mainly played 3.5e D&D.

It must be nice to be able to claim your roleplaying-game expenses as tax deductions lol

>I really despise the combat focused level based system


Thanks for the detailed response


My pleasure. Yeah I increased my rate etc a bit. Nowadays you can charge 15-20-25$ and get away with it, gone are the days of $5 games with a free trial. I'm avoiding specific for doxing reasons, but you can find my fat arse on some roll20 profile pic.

I really see this as a job and not a hobby. I don't enjoy d&d one bit. With other systems I might have enjoyed it but even they might become joblike on the long run I guess. But I had no delusions of "making my hobby a job" with regards to d&d. I just found a niche market, thats it. Look into what your customers want rather than what you want and all that jazz.
Plus it is not enough money, for earn minimum wage you have to run games 24/7, and thats how you get gm's who fell asleep in mid game, because they have been running games for 10 hours in order to make above 2000$. I have other passive income (rental) so I manage with 500$ usd, But its definitely not a career change.

But anyone can do it, having started with 3e you can claim a 15 year experience minimum. 5e is not that difficult either. Believe me when I say there is a tremendous shortage of dm's out there. Tremendous.


> I think this is a recent, post social media age phenomenon but no one wants to be "embarrassed" or make mistakes or learn as they go, everyone wants to have the perfect experience.

Folks need to learn to appreciate the yellow dragon campaign. Though maybe the type of people you are dealing with are unable to.
http://suptg . thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/17120844/


This is one of the most interesting things that has been posted here in quite a time. Thanks for sharing it.
By the way, why do you think not much people have applied to your other sessions? Is because the games are not "updated"?


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I’m a furry with money, you got any examples of your art?


Got any opinions on gurps? I was interested in it due to Fallout. Not a big fan of the pen and paper games in general though.


You might hate DnD but you recognize it's a fad. Run it as much as you can now because when the fad ends you will lose all that income. You're better off doing it to make a good amount of savings than making just what you need to get by.

Is Roll20 as bad as they say? How many men do you get pretending to be succubi?

I'm an old /tg/ Grog too and I've been writing painting tutorials for magazines. It's not a main source of income (NEET bux) but it's a different kind of challenge once in a while.

>I was into tabletop roleplaying back in the 2000s but drifted away from the hobby over time. Like most things in life, it gets ruined when other humans are involved. I mainly played 3.5e D&D.
Are you retarded mate? Other people playing pretend with you is the role playing hobby. It was a normalfag hobby since the mid 80s, it went off the boil and as the kids who played DnD as a child and never got over it got access to TV production they used the experience to revive it. D&D is as normalfag as it gets.

You could easily offer a "premium experience" of $50s. Roleplaying isn't my area of expertise but I know there's markets for some specific adventures. Find the most popular ones or even running adventures in books on release day. You can pirate it in advance to get familiar with it and charge double for a day 1 experience. Twitterfags would eat it up. FOMO would double your profit there.


Oh man, suptg..Surprised that place still exists, brought me back a decade ago.
I'm glad you liked it.
>why do you think not much people have applied to your other sessions? Is because the games are not "updated"?
Because there is absolutely no interest. Peopel don't want to play rpgs they want to play d&d. They don't even want to try other games. RPG scene is dominated by d&d. Some don't even know other types of rpg's exist. I got "What do you mean you play arrrrpeeegeees? you mean d&d?" treatment more than once. For them dnd=rpg. And for those who know d&d is not the only thing in the market many do feel daunted/don't want/don't care aobut any other system. Sometimes it is funny. Like one group who wanted to play dnd in an arthurian setting where players are knights of the round table, but they absolutely rejected when I told them about Pendragon, a system that focuses on EXACTLY this type of game. And this is not the worst example, many see d&d as a cookiecutter system (rather than admitting its party based combat orientation) and try to mold many of their playstyles/settings etc into it.
But I started to cut them slack, it took me 5-6 years to get out of d&d. And many people who started play rpgs are only in it in the last 2-3 years.
Speaking of cookiecutters, GURPS is truly the cookie cutter system, it has many books so you pick and choose what you want. It really depends on what type of game you run there. Fallouts Special system is more or less an unofficial GURPS so I guess the connection is strong. I'm not that well versed in GURPS but GURPS Traveller books are quite well written lorewise.
Yep, I just realized there was a massive gap in player to dm ratio, and started to run games that people wanted rather than what I wanted. Magazines must still have a niche enoug haudience so you are good on that. I'm really curious what will happen to d&d after the fad phase is gone, we will see.
>Is Roll20 as bad as they say?
It is far worse.
The best type of customers are 3-4 friends who are afraid to run the game. The worst types are some individual snowflakes with 5000 word text about character with a comissioned art
>You could easily offer a "premium experience" of $50s.
Thanks, but I think unless you are matt mercer level, it is very difficult to charge over 30$ per player, you really need to be youtuber/twitch famous to charge that price. I also don't feel I can justify getting paid that much with my non voice acting fatso ass. I naturally increased prices and I think I'm at the sweetspot of having a good number of applications that I can eliminate "that guys" who have tons of disposable income (see Darven in Pathfinder Kingmaker, a that guy spent 1000$ on kickstarter to have his snowflake character as a quest in game). If you make your game $50 chances are very high you will get more that guy players.
Also there is the problem of refunds. One should always remember paypal is on the side of the customer always. So refund with no question asks policy is more or less a given.
I never thought of Looking into modules in advance, however. Thanks!


>I've been writing painting tutorials for magazines
Magazines still exist?! Are you from the 1970s?


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I make enough money off my hobby for coffee-money ie. enough to buy a coffee once in a while.


Thinking about drawing fetish porn. How can I make sure the autists paying me don't end up doxing me?


your hobby could be making coffee instead


Maybe get paid in Bitcoin


The problem is no one will be prepared to jump the hurdles to make a payment.


ask for payment up front


i will probably try to make some children's books

-low quality/simple art
-low quantity of art and text
-low effort in general
-easy money

-there are none


- nobody will buy them


well i already know people buy my dumb ebooks. im sure regular books arent much different. sales dont have to be high either to be considered successful by me

in a hypothetical scenario, say it somehow takes 1 entire week to produce a children's book, and say per month you only sell a single copy for $10, only $5 of which is profit. do this for a year and you will have $280 monthly income, $3400 passive annual income.

that kind of monthly return is what you can expect from a long term stock investment of $50k at a 7% return


The cons are it is a hyper competitive over-flooded market where it is nearly impossible to stand out and get noticed without major connections in the publishing industry as well as a understanding of the children's book market.

All I really have to say is good luck. You are going to need it.


>calls his customers autists behind their backs because their uncontrollable fetish is "weird"
Just an FYI, people can tell when you're hacking out fetish porn just for the money. If you overprice shit because you think weird people have lots of money, you're dead wrong. Part of the appeal of fetish art communities is the solace in knowing other people get off to the same stuff. If you can't even fit in, you won't be able to exploit the community


Like others wizards said; crypto is one way. You could use any of the many online wallets for taking money and then send money from there to your personal bank account.


How are you going to sell them? It's all marketing and very little writing. If you try to self-promote they'll call it "spam" unless you buy some big jew corporation to "advertise" for you (they just steal your money)



It was a way in the past. Now there's 100 coins that'll never go anywhere for every coin that will multiply by 10.


i just laid out a hypothetical scenario where im completely fine with every book selling only a single time each month. that is really bad and slow for the record, stuff sells itself at that low rate with no effort on your part


What platform do you use to sell your books? I'm beginning to think writing is the only way I'll earn a pittance without being miserable


If you need an obscure fetish that isn’t too obscene try “balloons”. Especially balloons and MLP together.
Like sentient balloons having weight loaded on them almost to the point of popping, such things.
Real fucking wierd offshoot on “fearplay” but I’ve seen dogshit artists get commissions on it.


>I wake up, prepare for an adventure and a session for 4-6 hours and earn 50-100$ in a day.

no offense, but you earn less than minimum wage if you add in the actual running of the games.


Even if you ignore the logistics of it and you actually pull it off, the problem is that monetizing your hobby will almost always slowly make you hate it as it turns into a job. Enjoy drawing? Well now you have to draw on demand what someone else wants, even when you don't feel like. Enjoy video games? How would it be to play the same level over and over and over, in order to test it or grind some particular item that is valuable and sellable on the market?

To get money, you have to be given money by other people by giving them of something of equal value in exchange. It always becomes a kind of slavery, no matter what.


I've made a little money selling my books, it is do-able but get in now. I feel like its on the way out


I've been drawing weird porn for a living for a few years now, both illustrations and comics. At first I started drawing this kind of content because the porn I found online didn't quite please me, but now it's practically my job. It gives me enough to feed my family and help my mother with her health problems. However, it consumes practically all of my time and I always end up feeling like a phony for making money despite not being that good of an artists. Plus, I hate everything about interacting with clients and setting prices. I'm starting to get sick of drawing other people's fantasies, to be honest.
I'd like to learn 3d modeling and animation someday, but I haven't made time for that yet.

Excuse me for the stupid question, but do you mean books written by you?


Yes, I wrote them


depends where you live. cost of living matters

plus consider he doesn't need a car, gas, car insurance. his employer isnt taxing him

very easily you could live off thst amount comfortably in many places


I'm thinking of becoming an educated dumpster diver. I don't think I will be very successful. There's a whole ecosystem of economic scavengers that drive around in their trucks 24/7 searching for anything remotely valuable to hoard so they can fuel their crack addiction.


What kind of books do you write for a living and where do you sell them? Any tips for another wiz wanting to do the same?


I have advertised here in the past they are comedy. Tips? Don't spend a lot of money on advertising and embrace a D.I.Y. ethic


My main hobby is collecting old audio gear, sometimes I just flip stuff if I find something easy to fix for cheap. Cassette walkmans are probably the best way to make some profit in this field, you buy bulk lots of broken ones and fix them up. Usually they just require a simple belt replacement and playback speed adjustment. The biggest profit I've made so far is with an old sharp boombox, bought it for 50$, all I needed to do is clean it up nicely and it sold for 200$ on ebay. I could make it a full time thing probably but I'd need to get better at soldering.


Any tips to started on this? Where does one advertising themselves and which communities would be best to sell the "wares"?


Did AI art affect your livelihood? It sure made me disheartened about my studies.

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