No.68295[Last 50 Posts]
Book discussion. Tell us what you're reading.
Previous threads:
>>64932>>60032>>54504 No.68296
I finished reading Writings from Ancient Egypt, a broad-gauged collection of letters, songs, teachings, inscriptions, tales, religious and legal texts from the very early literate days of Egypt during the Second Dynasty in 28th century BC, all the way to the coming of Alexander the Great and the establishment of the Ptolemaic Kingdom in the fourth century BC. At just over 300 pages, I feel that might be the only problem with this beautiful book. There's just not enough of it. It's an editorial tragedy we don't have, say, 1000 pages worth of this fascinating period of literature, perhaps in 3 volumes. And the reason we don't have it is at least partially elucidated in the introduction by Toby Wilkinson, the translator and editor of this volume: The apparent impenetrability of the script –the Hieroglyphs– but also the lack of an authorial tradition. While we can think of many famous Roman and Greek writers, most old Egyptian writings are anonymous. But in short, it seems the problem is most people are just not interested. Their loss.
Regardless, once you pick this volume and start reading the thoughts, trials and tribulations of people from all walks of life of a civilization from 4 thousand years ago, you immediately realize you're there. Whenever humanity is, you're not alone among them and you're no stranger to its manifestations. You read to know you're not alone, but it's more than that. When you read this book, you realize what you are now, was already present then, thousands of years ago. Indeed there is nothing new under the sun. Your thoughts, fears, desires, it's all inherited from such a long ago. I don't think it's possible to have a single truly new thought. Indeed if it was requested of me to give a title to humanity it would be "Variations of a Single Tune". Forever dancing on the surface of this planet around the sun until it's all over.
Anyway, I marked about 40 passages from this volume but I'm not going through all of them here. Instead, I'll make some very informal remarks about a more or less random selection of them. As you might guess by now, I wholeheartedly recommend this book.
First one I would like to mention here is a paragraph from the autobiographical inscription of a man called Harkhuf. He was in charge of an expedition deep into the Upper Nile, into the lands of Nubia, for the young king Neferkara Pepi II. During his travels, he came across a dancing dwarf. Back in those days, Egyptians attributed to people with dwarfism a special connection to the divine, and once Pepi II found out Harkhuf was bringing a dwarf from the land of Yam back to his court, he was ecstatic. Keep in mind this king was about 10 years old. Here's a small passage:
Come downstream to the Residence at once! Hurry and bring with you this dwarf that you have brought from the land of the horizon-dwellers, alive, prosperous and healthy, for the god’s dances, to amuse and to delight the heart of the Dual King Neferkara, who lives for ever. When he goes down with you into the boat, have excellent people around him on deck lest he fall in the water. When he lies down at night, have excellent people lie down around him in his hammock. Inspect ten times a night! My Majesty wishes to see this particular dwarf more than the produce of Sinai and Punt!
Harkhuf was successful in bringing the dwarf back to court, as he had the king's letter written verbatim in the inner wall of his tomb. He probably considered receiving a letter from the king himself the most important moment of his life. That dwarf probably danced many evenings in the court of king Neferkara to everybody's amusement.
Here's something a lot more grim. The tally of booty brought back by king Thutmose III from the battle of Megiddo, an ancient city now in northern Israel:
living captives – 340
(severed) hands – 83
horses – 2,041
foals – 191
stallions – 6
chariots from his wretched army – 892
leather mail-shirts from his wretched army – 20
bows – 502
cattle – 1,929
goats – 2,000
sheep – 20,500
male and female slaves and their children – 1,796
the pardoned who deserted that enemy out of hunger – 103 men
Among other things. It's an extensive list.
Next passage is a lamentation of a man to his own heart. I'm sure this could've been written today with no alterations whatsoever.
The mind does not accept the Truth.
There is no patience with the reply to an opinion:
all a man loves is his own words.
Everyone is crooked to the core;
honest speech has been forsaken.
I speak to you, my heart, so that you shall answer me.
And here's one talking about death and us, those who, at the time of the writing, were not born yet:
All our kin rest there (the land of the dead) since the dawn of creation;
Those yet to be born, to millions upon millions,
Shall come to it, without exception –
For none may linger in the Homeland –
And there is none who will fail to reach it.
As for the span of one’s deeds upon earth,
It is a dream.
One says, ‘Welcome, safe and sound!’
To him who reaches the Beyond.
One of the most interesting parts of this book is talks about some of the spells Egyptians inscribed in their tombs in order to help them get around in the Afterlife. Seems like it was a very strange place, and counter-intuitive. For example, you need a spell so you don't walk upside down:
Spell 224: Spell for not walking upside down in the land of the dead. Spoken by N: I will not walk upside down for you. Indeed, I walk on my feet. I will not walk upside down for you. I walk like Horus, striding like Atum. My tomb is like a transfigured spirit’s. I walk like one who is among the transfigured spirits who open up the gods’ mounds.
And here are some maxims that could be easily applied today in your own life:
If you are with other people, gain for yourself supporters by being trustworthy. The trustworthy man who does not give free rein to his baser thoughts will himself become a leader.
If you wish a friendship to last, when you enter a house as master, brother or friend, whatever place you enter, beware of approaching the succubi! It is not a happy place where that is done. Revealing it is (equally) unwelcome. Men are easily diverted13 from what is good for them – a brief moment, like a dream – then the realization is fatal!
if you want your conduct to be good, rescued from all evil, guard against the vice of greed: it is a grave and incurable disease; there are no treatments for it. It afflicts fathers and mothers and uncles. It drives apart the wife and husband. It is a mix of everything evil, a combination of everything hateful.
Do not repeat slander nor listen to it, for it is the outbursts of a hot temper. Report (only) a matter you have seen, not (merely) heard. If it is by the by, do not mention it, for your interlocutor recognizes virtue. If a theft is ordered and carried out, hatred will attach to the thief, according to the law. Mortal slander is a nightmare against which one covers one’s face.
This is just an appetizer of the contents, but it's enough to give you a fair idea of the stuff you'll find in there. This book offered me a deep connection to humanity and reminds me it's impossible to deny I'm part of this world. It offers a familiar picture in a different, ancient light, making mankind look quite pitiful with its same, incessant tragedies, dreams and uncertainties, but fascinating at the same time.
No.68298
>>68296>(severed) hands – 83what for?
No.68299
>>68297If that's what you like, and those books bring you something positive, it's great.
>>68298It doesn't mention why but if I had to guess I would say they brought it back to burn in a pyre as an offering to the gods.
No.68300
I'm making my way sporadically through House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski
It's a good read so far
No.68303
I pretend to read all of those books from the list:
https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/blogs/news/4000-10-books-every-student-should-readThe first one "imagined communities" is already very fascinating reading, almost finishing reading.
No.68311
>>68300I really enjoyed reading this, the way the text is utilised to tell a visual story was very interesting and unique.
No.68320
Over the years, I must have read Gilgamesh about half a dozen times, through several different translations. Archaeologists are always finding new tablet fragments, and the completion of the text is an ongoing process. The last version I read was from the 1980s, I believe, and this time I picked up Andrew George's 2019 translation for Penguin Classics. Gilgamesh is essentially a story about a king in denial about his mortality, and his saga is one of coming to terms with the human condition. It's a simple, poignant tale, and the first ever committed to the written word. The Epic of Gilgamesh stands as the oldest recorded story we have from history.
If you read it, you'll probably be surprised by how relatable it is. You know the phrase, "Nothing new under the sun," and it's not far from the truth. The Sumerians, Akkadians, and Babylonians were highly advanced civilizations of urban dwellers, so it shouldn't be too surprising that their sensibilities are not so far from our own, even if 5,000 years separate us in time. There's a lot of talk nowadays about must-reads, but in this case, I believe it applies. We're talking about the most ancient of tales here, essentially the text that sets the precedent for literature itself; in fact, it invents it. The main theme, of course, is death. Death, the bane of mankind, that which is fixed when when your navel-cord was cut, the flood-wave that cannot be breasted, the battle that cannot be fled, the combat that cannot be matched, the fight that shows no pity, the Great City; those who enter don't come back, as a passage says.
Gilgamesh, the son of a mortal man and a goddess, probably has more cause to resent death than most. He's a demi-god, a nearly perfect man, a king—unmatched in strength, beauty, courage, and wealth. And yet, in death, he finds his match. The fate he cannot escape, something that will defeat him. His journey is one of tragic realization. He often refuses to listen to reason until he's cornered at the edge of the world, in a garden of gems, where he has no choice but to grow wise or go mad, and you're not sure until the end which way he'll go.
Accompanying him in this momentous saga is Enkidu, a man from the wild, whose own tale reflects the changes of mankind itself, for he too went from being a wild man to a city dweller. He has to learn how to drink ale, eat bread, and cover his body in clothing. His domestication comes at a price, and it's hard for to decide if it was worth it or not. At times, it feels like he regrets it; at other times, it seems he would sacrifice everything to keep his friendship with Gilgamesh, even if his connection with nature is severed forever. His tale is also one of tragic realization.
Gods, ogres, harlots, and wise men, strange entities and demons populate the world of this epic. There are all sorts of intriguing, colorful characters. The cities, forests, rivers, and oceans teem with strange beings: life from time immemorial, places abandoned by the gods, monsters, and roads that deities used long before they tried to destroy humanity. We visit it all, following Gilgamesh in his sad, doomed quest.
Andrew George's edition is by far the most complete I've ever read. Not only does he present the Akkadian "official version," but he also translates a good number of fragments, alternate versions, the Sumerian stories, and other tales involving Gilgamesh that don't belong to the epic itself. There's a lengthy introduction that is quite helpful and filled with interesting insights, not only about history but also about the discovery of the tablets and how everything is pieced together from an archaeological perspective. Definitely a book I appreciate to have and I definitely recommend it.
No.68321
>>68320there's some sayings about we lost 97% of human history
No.68330
>>68320Fascinating, anon, very interesting, I will read Gilgamesh someday.
No.68417
I'm finishing read the OG Thrawn trilogy from Star Wars, very well made and fun adventure, highly recommend for people that like Star Wars books.
No.68426
>>68295Mostly Murakami Novals.
No.68478
>>>/hob/68244have you read the magic mountain, by thomas mann?
No.68545
a good book, the alchemist from paulo cohelo
No.68547
>>68545It certainly paints a vivid mind picture and was filled with meaning.
That said I felt some parts were a little slow, but then again I normally prefer more plot focused stories.
Still, it is indeed a very good book.
No.68548
>>68547spoilers
the part where he left spain for northen africa is slow paced indeed and wonder when will he travel to egypt No.68853
Arthur C. Clarke is my favorite science fiction writer and one of my favorite writers in any genre. I decided somewhat recently that I wanted to read all of his books. Last year, I went through his entire collection of short stories, spanning over 60 years of a long career. I'll eventually go back to it and write my thoughts on it, but for now, I want to talk about The City and the Stars, a novel from 1953.
I decided to start with The City and the Stars because I had read the novella a short time ago, and this novel is an expansion of it. I wanted to approach it while the novella was still fresh in my memory. This is one of his earlier novels, but in it, there are already many of the aspects that make me like this writer so much. His heartfelt enthusiasm for the expansion of the human mind, both through technical and scientific progress as well as the push to make man a truly intelligent entity in this universe, meaning, an ethical being with respect for life, an unending, almost childish curiosity about the cosmos, and the vigor to improve his knowledge of all things. The motto of this novel, "No true intelligence can be hostile," presents a very sunny, optimistic view of life, and it's not a completely ridiculous position if you understand what he means by intelligence. Like always, it depends on the definition, and in his own terms, I agree with him. His faith in humanity is contagious, and I very much enjoy how this novel and his other works make me feel. I mostly come from the other end of the spectrum, being a shy pessimist about things, so reading Clarke is like opening a door to beautiful, reassuring world that I usually don't tap into by myself.
The City and the Stars is basically a coming-of-age tale. You have a boy named Alvin, who is the personification of youthful rebellion against the decadence and stale traditions that hamper humanity from achieving its true potential. Here, as in many of his novels, this potential is expressed mostly as the courage and power to expand the horizon beyond the stars. Space exploration and the necessary knowledge to do so. This is all told almost like a fable. This novel is not at all like the technical, hard science fiction he would write later on. The story is straightforward, and the characters are simple but effective. Each city represents a facet of human behavior or potential, and the characters are very much one-note, being the expression of single aspects of the emotional spectrum, like fear, courage, doubt, etc. It works very well for a fable like this, taking place a billion years from now.
I really enjoy the plot twist towards the end, where we get an info dump through one of the characters. The pacing is not exactly smooth, and a lot of the dialogue feels like straight-out explanations, but I don't mind that at all. I don't particularly care for the characters here, but the enthusiasm that bursts through many scenes and the lighthearted atmosphere of it all create a very utopian, reassuring world.
No.68856
Prelude to Space is very different and closer to his more mature work. It's about the first landing on the moon, conceived before any actual moon landing ever happened. Written almost 20 years before Apollo 11, this book reads like an extremely educated guess on how the first mission to the moon would likely unfold. He got some things right and others not so much, but it really doesn't matter. Again, the strength of this novel lies in his unabashed faith in humanity and its ability to overcome challenges and travel beyond our cradle, Earth. He delineates a clear plan for human excellence in this novel, shaped by space flight and a love for knowledge and exploration.
All the characters are either engineers, scholars, or scientists. The story primarily focuses on a small group of scientists overcoming the various difficulties of spaceflight. It is very clear in this novel what his favorite type of character is. If you go to Goodreads or elsewhere and read the reviews of Clarke's work, you'll see that a lot of criticism and complaints center around Clarke's supposed inability to create compelling characters, that his characters are uninteresting, etc. I disagree with this assessment. It's not that he can't write characterization, it's more like that his heroes are expressions of the type of people he admires the most: cerebral, logical, but not without warmth. They're the best of what humanity can offer, not the worst or even the average. This optimism is at the core of most of his characters, beneath their technical, seemingly cold exterior. In fact, his characters are civilized men and succubi, civilized in the best sense, and this gives them a type of maturity that is pretty much final. By that, I mean there is really no character progression. They're never idiots, bellyachers, or foolish. It's usually a team of characters who are professionals and fit for the task at hand. It's akin to the team on the ISS. You don't have morons up there, it's a team of incredibly competent cosmonauts, the elite of technical people, and that's where Clarke's characters usually stand.
As such, and this is very important, there's no human drama stemming from personality flaws. The drama arises from technical problems and the consequences of failing to identify and fix such issues. The characters themselves function like a well-oiled machine, as a team of engineers and scientists should when facing huge problems that require complete cooperation. There's no space for love affairs, betrayals motivated by petty emotions, or other such things that people often like to read about. In brief, there's not much room for human folly in his novels, no space for monkeys who have yet to achieve civility. He's simply not interested in the type of character you would see in soap operas. There's a high standard among his cast, which, of course, contributes to the power of the story and the optimism expressed within it. Additionally, there's a harsh reality to the technical problems facing the characters; most of the time, had they spent time squabbling like children, they would simply die incinerated by comets, radiation, machine malfunctions, and the like. The message is clear: grow up and join the adults carrying on with human progress, or stay back home.
I enjoy how cerebral this novel is and, at the same time, how poetically he paints space exploration, linking it with a sort of human destiny and appealing to the characteristics he admires most in humanity: curiosity, intelligence, compassion, and courage. He has staunch faith in humanity and sees it as having almost unlimited potential.
No.68865
The Sands of Mars is about the first human colony on the fourth terrestrial planet. There are plenty of interesting assumptions about Mars in this book, which was published in 1951 and written even earlier. For example, it was generally assumed that there was vegetation on Mars and that there were no mountains. Despite the name of the book, we don't get to Mars until halfway through, with the first part dedicated to the complicated business of spaceflight, taking people and supplies into space and to the other planets. The protagonist is a science fiction writer, Martin Gibson, and much of this character is clearly based on the author himself. There is an entire chapter dedicated to the role of science fiction in actual scientific pursuit, something I know was Clarke's concern. I think at times he yearned to have a more active role in the scientific community, doing research as a scientist himself instead of being 'on the sidelines,' as it were, an admirer and writer of fiction about the subject. In his first novel, Prelude to Space, the protagonist is a historian documenting the lunar landing rather than taking an active role in it. It would be some time before he let go of the role of outsider in his novels.
The book depicts a well-organized, fully functional Martian colony. Like in his last book, it's all about a group of highly capable people carrying out research and developing tools to overcome a problem. The problem here is, of course, Mars itself, a planet with virtually no air and no atmosphere. I wish he would elaborate a little more on the production of oxygen and especially water, which is produced in a power plant rather than harvested. However, the main concern of the novel is with the more imaginary Martian flora and how to use it to develop a breathable atmosphere. Terraforming is the main subject in this book and all of the important characters are involved with it in some way or another.
The 'gentleman's world' feel this novel has is amusing. The notion that society is already neatly organized and that the only problems left are of a technical nature, rather than social, is very strong here, and is partially why I enjoyed reading it. We never descend into squabbles, and, as I mentioned in my last post, humanity is held to very high standards, giving a sense of a utopia, or an intelligent man's paradise. Yes, the colony has to go to great lengths for the bare minimum of air and water, but those problems are of a hard nature, with mathematical solutions. The Sands of Mars gets quite pulpy towards the end, and I think it's almost inevitable for writers from the golden age of science fiction to include those elements when discussing Mars—a planet that has captivated writers for a very long time.
No.68907
Childhood's End is one of the best novels I've ever read, pound for pound. It's a fairly short novel, but it packs quite a punch, especially with the two main ideas explored within the book: first contact with an alien race and humanity's ultimate destiny. The middle part slows down, setting things up and fleshing out the world and the impact of the Overlords on society, but it pays off in the end. The conclusion itself is the best part, presenting a very ominous, sinister sort of optimism that I honestly have never encountered in any other science fiction story. I really enjoyed reading the negative reviews for this book on Goodreads because you can tell that people were genuinely scared by this ending. I appreciated its tone and how it undermines the typical happy ending. This is one bizarre "happy ending."
Compared to Prelude to Space and The Sands of Mars, it's almost fantasy, at least towards the end. In that sense, this novel is closer to The City and the Stars than to Rendezvous with Rama and his other technically focused novels. It's all about subverting expectations and grappling with big unknowns. It reminds me of a sentence this author was fond of: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." While it never goes as far as sounding like magic, it does become quite abstract and loose regarding the technical aspects of what is happening. The fact that the ending deals with things outside human control and understanding ultimately makes the prose very effective and, at times, ghastly, which I found to be incredibly entertaining.
The Overlords were easily the best characters—in fact, pretty much the only characters in the novel. Since the story covers a very long period of time, human characters simply come and go with the passage of the centuries, while the main Overlords linger, taking care of humanity's problems and waiting for something of utter importance. I'm familiar with this writer, so I guessed almost right away what it was, but I think it's an effective mystery nonetheless. Clarke himself was very fond of this novel, mentioning somewhere that it was one of his best. I agree; in many ways, this is even better than Rendezvous with Rama.
No.68973
Any recommendations for non-bullshit books that will help me to be less neurotic and anxious and stuck in my head? Just want to enjoy life’s simple pleasures and not give a fuck. I’ve been reading up on Epicureanism lately and it’s pretty wizardly.
No.68974
>>68973if your into philosophy maybe read the meditations by marcus aurelius
No.68975
>>68973I think Walden might help, though I haven't fully read it myself yet. 4000 weeks was also a good read, though a bit repetitive at times. Makes you face your limited time and the fact that we simply cannot do all the things we want to, and that that's okay. Murakami's Pinball, 1983 was also really comfy. Just some story about the character's daily life.
Currently reading succubus in the Dunes. It's definitely pretty weird so far and I get confused a lot. Not sure if it's due to the translation or because I just don't really understand all the erotic references. But I don't really dislike it. It's interesting.
No.68991
>>68990do you have other books?
No.68993
>>68991Yeah theyre all over the place in my closet, mainly more james bond novels, a couple Richard Marcinko (because hes fucking hilarious) and a couple old scifi stuff
No.68999
>>68975Update on Succubus in the Dunes. Little over half way the main characters had sex and it made me so uncomfortable I stopped reading and I have no intention of continuing it. Probably gonna end up selling it so I don't have to look at it in my shelf.
No.69024
Any /lit/fag alive?
No.69027
>>69024There's only 2 or 3 people in these threads for months at a time and most of it is just me.
>>68295 >>68296 >>68320 >>68853 >>68856 >>68865 >>68907 are just one person.
No.69040
>>69024What happen to /lit/?
No.69041
>>69040Steven King did a public AMA on /lit/ and the entire board couldn't handle that amount of fail so they all left.
No.69050
>>69027I was an usual poster:
>>65236 but my country got range banned for 1 year because some dude broke the rules while arguing about what is a true wiz in /lounge/ (I suspect of the rangeban because I got this as the reason of my ban but I never posted that)
I lost the will to keep effort posting reviews after that
No.69054
>>69052I read long time ago, remember the writing be somewhat cool
No.69078
>>69077That's so cool. I've been wanting to read Schopenhauer for a while now! Aside from it being "hilarious" what are your thoughts on it?
>>68295I am currently reading Chekhov's three sisters. I've read 2 of his pieces before(and those 2 were my 1st exposures to playright).
No.69079
>>69078my thoughts on him are very personal and are unlikely to be of any use to anyone. we share a core metaphysical intuition, because of that it's very interesting for me to see where he goes with it, even if i often think he's mistaken or half-mistaken. and somewhat rarely he writes something that seems to me to be so utterly incompatible with the rest of his thought, or at least a key aspect of it, that i wonder what was going on inside his head to think that.
so you should just read him yourself and see what you get from it.
No.69080
>>69079You don't need to respond to someone who feels it appropriate to attach an orgasming gay male transvestite picture to his post.
No.69081
>>69079Thanks for answering. I might read it someday. I've been interested in pessimistic philosophy for some time but never actually read it, aside from aphorisms and youtube videos about their philosophies (Schopenhauer's, Cioran's and others)
>>69080Why? I didn't mean anything by that picture, I just felt like posting it. It wasn't related to my post.
No.69082
>>69081>Why? I didn't mean anything by that picture, I just felt like posting it. It wasn't related to my post.Having such a homosexual image on your computer is indicative that you're a homosexual. Sharing that image in a thread about reading books on a celibate mens' forum is indicative that you want absolutely everyone everywhere to know that you're a fag. If you weren't invested in finding a relevant picture to post, then why settle for something so sickening? We don't need or want to know that you enjoy erotic art of crossdressing "mystery gender" visual novel characters. I'm sorry 4chan's LBGTQ board is no longer accessible for you, but that doesn't give you the right to ruin other imageboards with your faggotry.
^_^ I'm sure Schopenhauer is right up your alley! UwU No.69083
>>69082Sorry, I didn't mean to upset you. I won't post Astolfo anymore
No.69084
lol
No.69085
>>69083trick them with more obscure traps next
No.69086
>>69085Reverse search is pretty great these days.
Now fuck off, homosexual, and return to sucking cocks at your cabaret.
No.69146
God fucking damn it, I tried to read the infamous Second Apocalypse series by Bakker, I've dropped at the first book, too unrelenting dark and bleak to the point of being stupid, no one is good, everyone is shit, the entire world is so fucking shit and bleaks that you wonder what the point in reading that shit afterall, in the end you hope the world comes to a end for how so shitty and bleak it is.
No.69147
>>69087I-is that a m-male?
No.69168
I'm reading David Copperfield.
No.69169
>>69168The magician?
Didn't know he was a writer.
No.69181
>>69178Damn, I don't know if it is a femboy or a tomboy there, genuinely confused.
No.69183
>>68295I am currently reading the man without qualities by Robert Musil.
Since i have been pretty busy for the last months, i am only halfway through the first volume of the edition in picrel (on a sidenote, this is by far the best choice for a cover i have ever seen. It encapsulates the tone of the book and the main character perfectly. The portraits by Egon Schiele used in the later editions are still pretty fitting, but the fact they stopped using the original illustration bothers me nontheless).
As for the novel itself, it is probably the best book i ever tried to approach. The author takes all the best aspects of european modernity and realaborates them in a work that manages to be a psychological novel, a series of philosophical essays and considerations and a satire of european politics and culture during the belle epoque.
The story is set in early 20th cenury Vienna, and the protagonist is a man named Ulrich. He is a decently wealthy man who possesses all the qualities a man of his time can have: he's physically fit, beautiful, sensitive, decisive and an intellectual, but despite all of this, he doesnt feel like he belongs to any place the world can offer him, and as such all of his qualities stop becoming "his", since none of them is really part of said place in the world. Because of this, Ulrich is very often alienated and unfeeling from the reality he is living in, even as he is being beaten senseless by a gang of muggers or as his lover is crying due to his attitude towards her.
After a 60 page introduction in which Ulrich's life and outlook on the world he lives in, his sister Agathe recieves an invite to a group of intellectuals and activists formed to celebrate the 70th year of emperor Franz Joseph's reign (1918). Since the same year is also the 30th year of kaiser Wilhelm II's reign, this becomes an occasion for the association to show the spiritual superiority of Austria over Germany, despite the obvious disparity in their political influence.
All other characters in the book are examples of the models of life that are arising in the 20th century, and each one of them is trying, in their own way, to reject the spirit of the time they live in.
Most of the book (up until the point i have read it) is made out of descriptions of debates and considerations (made by both the characters and the narrator) and the characters' feelings and relationships with other people.
Aside from this, nothing really happens. The lives of the characters mostly remain the same and no one is ever able to make any difference in the reality he lives in, despite the long and convoluted pages spent depicting his considerations.
No.69209
Tress of the emerald sea by brando sando. great read. fun short book that doesn't take itself seriously.
No.69307
Do you people sometimes have difficult comprehend some paragraph in books you read? I'm finding myself sometimes not fully getting certain paragraphs.
No.69308
>>69307what are you reading? if you are reading philosphy or a technical subject like math, then yeah, it would be the shock to be able to understand everything rightaway.
No.69328
>>69308God Emperor of Dune and some book about behavioral genetics.
No.69333
>>69208>not buttering your biscuit ngmi
No.69334
>>69052Remember that hh is writing to the jury.
And skip the part where they were traveling in car, you can come back to it later if you want.
No.69348
Just finished reading Les Miserables by Victor Hugo. Currently reading Havoc by Tom Kristensen. Afterwards I'll begin on Moby Dick by Herman Melville.
No.69380
>>69307I have this with dense history books, sure i can pick a pop-history book but those are not comprehensive and detailed, not much different than a long youtube video
No.69395
have you read a book about alchemy before?
No.69402
I read the first book back in high school, but it took the first of the newer movie adaptations for me to go back and read the rest of the series (Frank's books).
I don't think I've ever read something that's stayed glued to my brain as much as Dune has. Especially the last three books. I understand why the earlier ones are more popular, but the last three are just filled with so many layers in depth of understanding, I come away from each re-read feeling like I've attained a deep understanding of some new universal truth.
I'm not well read compared to a /lit/ type, but I've read my fair share of scifi novels, and I've always been one to reread every book I read at least once. But I just keep finding myself coming back to dune.
I've even started remembering full quotes from the books even though I've never had the memory for others.
I think Chapterhouse has been my favorite. Odrade is a wonderful character and the perfect primary perspective for the book. Watching her pick apart the issues with the Bene Gesserit, seeing their need for an injection of humanity, her own training and mission constantly clashing with the little succubus still inside that misses the succubus who raised her, and it's never ham-fisted. Her approach is subtle, elegant, and just done so amazingly well that her getting Bellonda to take a fucking shower somehow feels like she's moved a mountain.
Emotions so taboo that being friendly to some initiate in the hallway is enough to rouse suspicion about her ability to lead properly. All with this constant contrast between the "Sexual Agility" the bene gesserit posses and this cold sterile loveless setting. Odrade understanding their perspective puts them outside of humanity, and beginning the steps to force them towards a more human future. It just touched a part of my brain I can't get rid of, it was honestly beautiful.
No.69410
>>69402Man, Dune after Messiah is dogshit, a read until God Emperor, and the quality just keep droping, Dune should have ended at Messiah.
No.69411
>>69402>>69410I was told to stop reading at god empror
No.69421
>>69411Things get even worse after God Emperor, Frank just jumped the sharks, read until God and stop, just read for yourself and see if you like God or not, for me was really shitty and convoluted
No.69466
>>69027I don’t contribute to these threads because I find it very difficult to write about the books I’ve read, but I enjoy reading your book “reviews” very much.
No.69482
Did anyone here tried to read philosophy, specially the primary sources like Kant?
No.69484
>>69482I've read some of the early shit. Like pre-Socratics, Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. I've also read a LOT of christian theology. Some Descartes, but other than him, I didn't get that close to the present other than theology.
No.69489
>>69482Honestly not since college. My tolerance for convoluted word games and spending whole books on something that can easily be explained with a well written paragraph to page of text at most.
There is just so much horribly written intellectual wankery to make arguments for ideas that are fundamentally not functional in objective reality. Far too many just make shit up and then play word games and faulty premises to construct false logic to support their make up nonsense. Results don't matter, the real world doesn't matter, reason doesn't matter, it's all just mental masterbation and intentional overcomplication because if they just came out and said their point even a small child could point out how fucking stupid all of their premises and conclusions are.
God damn did I waste too much time on that bullshit in my late teens and early 20s.
No.69517
decided to read the bible cover to cover
just finished genesis
it's actually a lot more entartaining than i thought it would be
there's some really crazy shit in it
No.69519
>>69518
nova vulgata
but i occasionally check out other translations to compare such as the niv and nrsvue
No.69520
I can't read fiction for the life of me, I can only read nonfiction. I try reading fiction and I immediately lose interest.
Which puts me in a difficult position because I've been learning russian in order to read Dostoievsky and Tolstoi in the original language.
No.69526
>>69520You have the curse of being a productivefag, only read stuff if "productive" or "have value", I bet you are one of those simple minded people that doesn't like animation because "its for kids".
No.69528
>>69526While you're not entirely wrong, animation is my favorite form of cinema.
No.69538
>>69526This comes hand in hand with anhedonia. If you can't enjoy things anyway, the thought process is that you may as well do things that are productive.
No.69539
>>69410>>69411>>69421I honestly think you both should give dune another chance. It's one of those book series that get better on a reread.
It's easy to tear a story down saying it's convoluted or that frank jumps the shark, but what are your actual issues? It feels like you don't understand it and you're lashing out because it's 2deep4u
Don't read Brians books though.
No.69545
>>69539What's deep about a fucking man-worm moaning about not being human anymore and everything being boring because he knows all the psychological variation of mankind?
No.69550
>>68412I know this post is several months old, but i bought an edition of "the ballad of the salty sea around a month ago.
I started reading today, and while the art isn't that great (especially when compared to other 70s comics), i found it to be pretty enjoyable overall.
My dad is a really big fan
No.69556
..I mean, just because it's called "The unbearable likeness of being"…
No.69593
I'm reading a book about FDR called Traitor to His Class by H. W. Brands. It's one hell of a doorstopper and I'm not sure if I can finish it even though the book is well written.
I enjoy reading biographies like that, they mix historical facts and anecdotes and it makes you know the man rather than a historical figure and learn more about the historical period, both the facts and how people lived.
I have some more presidential biographies in my backlog. I'm not even American, but I likr US history and I'm slowly learning about the presidents.
Anyway, the book is great, but I came to hate FDR the man. His presidency was complex, but I mean him as a person. I can't put my finger on it, but something makes me disgusted with him. He wasn't a very intelligent man, sort of a nepobaby, a shallow normalfag and an incestous lecherous fuckward who fucked up everything he did, from business to law practice. Or maybe it's how I see him… I think he was a bad man, as a person, idk.
No.69597
>>69593I met H.W. Brands and he signed my copy of his biography of U.S. Grant which I never finished
No.69670
Need easy reading recommendations for when I am too weak and brainfogged to read real books but it can't require too much or attention so I don't get intimidated back into doomscrolling again. Doesn't even have to be books. It can be websites or anything one rung higher intellectually than reading about controversies on 4chan.
No.69671
>>69670Manga/doujin/comics?
No.69684
>>69670I like audiobooks for this. You can get public domain ones at
https://librivox.org/ (although whether the reader is pleasant or unlistenable is always a dice roll) or torrent proffessional ones at
https://audiobookbay.lu, or myanonymouse if you can deal with private tracker stuff.
No.69688
>>69681Man, stoicism really became a grift this days
No.69689
>>69681>Immediately prescribe some character and form of conduce to yourself, which you may keep both alone and in companyHow? i dont get it.
>We cannot control the external events around us; we can control ourselves. It is not things that trouble us, but our judgments about things.Sound Buddhist and Taoist to me.
I remember reading something about the buddhist and chinese philosophers of how they see the relationship we have with things, rather than the things themselves. You don't hate people, but rather the relationship you have with those people or things. The problem is that we don't see it and we are being deceived.
>Never call yourself a philosopher, nor talk a great deal among the unlearned about theorems, but act conformably to them.Yep, never call you a
awaken up buddha or something. live based on your own actions, because titles are useless and do not count as merit.
No.69722
This blog is awesome for book recommendations:
www.cadaverminimal.blogspot.com
No.69783
Reading Borges. Where's my reading bros at?
No.69788
https://thegreatestbooks.org/What's the books wiz think about this site? It's a cool place to get know books.
No.69790
>>69788thanks for posting there's a lot of books I want to read after reading the summary of the books
No.69796
>>69788>Ulysses at #1holy based. Didn't expect that.
As a litfag, I'd say it's a pretty good list. Some proper classics mixed in with shit you should've really read in high school mostly. Essentially babby's first literature but by far not a terrible place to start.
If you read the top 25 you'll have some great books and experiences under your belt and you'll also be better read than 99.9% of the population. Do take it with a small grain of salt though. Some books, especially Ulysses, shouldn't be read without reading the author's other works. Also no Pynchon in the top 50 is concerning. On the other hand, no magical realism shit other than Marquez, and no "le starkly profound look at america" slice of life shit like Franzen or Delillo either, so it all balances out.
>Pride and prejudice at 12succubi must have found the list
>lolita at 13yuck. Hate nabokov. Such a try hard. Maybe that was the point- didn't like it either way.
No.69799
What's the quintessential wizNEET book?
No.69802
>>69799Notes from underground.
No.69805
>>69802the underground man had a job, he was just bitter, narcissit, and probably mentally ill, he was not a wizNEET.
>>69800What about confedenracy of dunce?
No.69808
>>69806Seems wiz-adjacent, not fully wiz, but close.
No.69815
Truth is: I hate reading classic book, it's all about "muh human condition", "muh suffering and le feelings", it's very boring after reading couple of classic book, all the same shit, the real stuff is reading sci fi or fantasy, get lost in a new world is cool as fuck, reality is already depressing, and ain't wasting time reading depressing books, waste of time.
No.69890
Is Wheel of Time worth the read? Or should I go and read the Malazan series?
No.69913
>>69815>the underground man had a jobhe quit it and isolated as soon as he received a little inheritance
No.69914
The Underground Man is forty years old remembering stuff from his early 20s.
No.69919
>>68295Somehow finished The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath despite taking months of breaks between sessions. It has a interesting ending but i wish i were fully awake to and not pissed of while reading it.
Any recommendations that are similar to that book and the first chapters of the king in yellow? Really liked first chapter/story in particular of that book.
No.69922
> In many English classrooms across America, assignments to read full-length novels are becoming less common. Some teachers focus instead on selected passages — a concession to perceptions of shorter attention spans, pressure to prepare for standardized tests and a sense that short-form content will prepare students for the modern, digital world.https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/spotlights/2024/not-so-great-expectations-students-are-reading-fewer-books-in-english-class/I think this is a good thing, and I would have enjoyed English class more if it was about reading short things with a critical intensity. rather than reading long things as an endurance test. its just a timewaster. I'm a fan of Leo Straussian slow reading.
Don't get me wrong, I'm actually against abridging. Since I think authors going off topic is part of the beauty of language. So of the excerpt, you should read the full text.
But I think a slow, close, critical reading of a short text or excerpt or even a quote is better than long lazy distracted tired reading.
No.69936
>>69922I think is important to have a endurance to read full book instead of just taking part of it, if you raise people just reading on key passages instead of a full book you're bound to make people stupid
No.69937
>>69914>>69914Wasn't clear that he's not a mentally healthy person? He's very bitter, neurotic, narcissistic from the impression I had reading the book.
No.69940
>>69815>"muh human condition", "muh suffering and le feelings"Fantasy and SciFi don't have this?
The most famous fantasy book and the most famous scifi series are a both about this. In fact you'll be hard pressed to find a novel that doesn't revolve around these elements.
No.69941
>>69940It think the coat of paint of a fantasy world and such can make this idea more palatable for people, instead of creating a story about your typical XXI century human drama, it's more fun to read when it against a backdrop of like a galactic empire or a fantasy realm.
No.69942
Does anyone has a good reading guide on how to get into continental philosophy?
No.69968
>>69942>Does anyone has aNo.
No.70108
>>68295I'm currently reading Unmasking Anne Frank by Ikuo Suzuki, just started today after I got the book delivered. The first few pages have been quite satisfying, so I will continue. I intend to read Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins afterwards, then the Culture of Critique trilogy by Kevin MacDonald. I still can't believe I found these books at a woke ass, liberal leftist ass bookstore. The types who stand against antisemitism. These fucks are so stupid and I'm perpetually reminded that the elites don't have full control over every aspect of society yet, the evil nature of normies keep everything naturally in alignment to their agendas on the surface.
After this, I'm thinking I'll really start reading some good programming books, not that I need them for studying, just to feed my brain. I have a list of more cryptocracy books which I intend to read one by one, they weren't written for nothing after all.
No.70158
I've finished reading matasaburo the wind, and alice in wonderland and looking through the glass And what she found there. it was good, Im reading night train in the milky way and its good
No.70159
finished reading train in the milkyway
No.70190
>>70140>>70141nice, I'm looking for more anti-feminist literature, and of course, you can't even Google that nowadays, it's all pro-feminism, and I don't know where to ask
No.70199
>>70198I can read along but I'm shy and retarded so I wouldn't have anything good to say.
No.70200
>>70199Thank you for the prompt response wizzy. Don't worry about having something 'good' to say, you can say whatever you want or nothing at all, though posting something, anything, makes the experience more fun I think.
Do you have a preference for any of the books I posted? Here's a quick sumary of each one:
Alas, Babylon
After a sudden global catastrophe, a small Florida town is cut off from the rest of the world and forced to survive on its own. The story follows ordinary people adapting to scarcity, responsibility, and the rebuilding of a fragile society.
Earth Abides
A devastating pandemic reshapes human civilization, leaving a lone survivor to wander a transformed America. The novel explores humanity’s place in nature and how cultures rise, change, and fade over time.
On the Beach
In the aftermath of a worldwide disaster, the last pockets of humanity wait out their final days in Australia. The novel focuses on dignity, routine, and human connection in the face of inevitable decline.
No.70201
>>70200I don't know about any of them. They all seem to be about the same subject anyway so whichever is fine. But just from your short description, Earth Abides sounds like it has a loner and thus more relatable protagonist.
No.70202
Allow me a course correction on the book selection, wiz. I read the first 30 or so pages of the three books I mentioned, and they all struck me as rather mediocre. Fine enough for casual reading, but if we’re going to read something together, I’d rather pick a very good book instead of an average one. A Canticle for Leibowitz happens to be the most highly regarded in the genre.
If you have no objections, I’d like to go with it. It’s also slightly shorter, with shorter chapters that you can read in a single sitting, which makes it perfect for what we’re doing here. I’d like to start on Monday the 22nd, giving the weekend for more people to see this post and possibly join in.
Every day I’ll write a short post about the chapter we’re meant to read that day, and you’re welcome to post your impressions as well. Maybe some discussion will come out of it. It should take us approximately a month to get through the book. The chapters average about 11 pages, which you can probably read in 15 to 25 minutes.
For wizzas who complain about brain fog or lack of concentration, I think this would be a good exercise, so don’t miss the opportunity to join us. You can probably reallocate 20 minutes of doomscrolling to this instead.
As for getting the book itself, I’ll be using the digital library system at archive.org. You need a free account. Registration only requires an email, username, and password. You are free to use whatever method you prefer. As long as you have access to the book, that’s all that matters.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2upPic related, our schedule.
No.70207
Chapter 1
"Stay back there now!" he croaked. "Just keep your distance, sport. I've got nothing you're after—unless it's the cheese, and you can have that. If it's meat you want, I'm nothing but gristle, but I'll fight to keep it. Back now! Back!"Well, I liked it a lot. The broad strokes used to describe this world at the beginning are very effective, giving enough detail while still leaving plenty to the imagination. It implies the horrors of the “post-Deluge” nicely, too, just by the characters' behavior. I’m very fond of deserts, and we’re certainly not lacking them here. The ending of the chapter was pretty good as well. Punchy. Let’s see what chapter 2 brings us tomorrow.
The first chapter is the second longest in the book. If you manage to get through this one, the rest will be a breeze. It'll only get easier to read a chapter a day for those struggling with focus.There’s only one chapter longer than this in the entire book, and it comes near the end.
Of course, anyone is welcome to join and post your impressions, it'll be fun.
>>70199Are you still there wiz?
No.70209
>>70207Yeah still here. Just finished reading the first chapter. Not much is revealed in the first chapter but we saw bits of worldbuilding here and there and it looks promising. Francis' religion sounded like a perversion of Christianity where the religion has been adopted to revolve around one Beatus Leibowitz who suffered from a nuclear fallout 600 years ago but he also got "exorcized" from it? For some reason, that reminded me of Do Android Dream of Electric Sheep where there is also a strange sci-fi religion revolving around a martyr figure whom struggles you can witness through a video-like thing? I forgot. Spoiler for that book, the martyr figure turns out to be a fraud who filmed his martyrdom in a studio but that doesn't matter because what matters is believing in the idea and the faith in him alone can gives hope to millions of people in a dystopian future. What did Leibowitz do to be able to replace Jesus Christ's position and what idea does he represents? Let's hope we can keep this book club going long enough to find out.
No.70210
i recently picked Machiavelli's The Prince recently after 3 years of starting the first chapter but i will be finishing it soon
No.70211
I also just finished reading chapter 1. Enjoyable writing style. Not much to say. More question than answers in this chapter.
I find it odd that Brother Francis found the pilgrim's statement of "Adonai Elohim, King of All, who maketh bread to spring forth from the earth" a strange pretension claiming to not know of a monarch of such a name. Adonai Elohim is apparently hebrew for Lord God. The symbols on the rock look like hebrew to me as well. What does this say about our pilgrim?
No.70212
>>70211It's probably lost knowledge. Literacy is considered a rarity. When Francis writes, he can only wrote single, disjointed religious terms instead of full sentences. He thought fallout is the name of a demon and that rebar in concrete is mysterious materials that you harvest. Within the 600 years after everything on earth gets wiped off in a nuclear war not all knowledge is preserved. It's likely not Christianity that they're following too but new religion that adopt its practices. I think they're larpers of Christian monkhood like how in the game Fallout:New Vegas, Caesar's legion larps as Romans from Caesar's own limited understanding of Rome in the surviving history book he had access to.
No.70214
>>70212I guess I got the sense that he was relatively learned, considering he could read the latin script, something not common in the pre-duluge Utah of all places, in the Libellus Leibowitz as well as the anceint english script on the fallout shelter sign. There's so much odd stuff in this chapter to me. Why is the Libellus Leibowitz written in latin? It's implied Leibowtiz may not have written the little book, but, still, why latin? A corrupted Catholicism? Still, someone would have to intentionally write that book in latin. Why does Francis understand the pilgrim's reference to scripture when he says, "I've not offered to turn these stones into bread for you yet, have I?" A reference to Satan's temptation of Christ. Does Francis know Christ? He mentions visualizing the Holy Trinity earlier where he refers to Leibowitz as the blessed martyr and can't help but confuse the face of God with the Lord Abbot. I think
>>70209 is right that Leibowitz replaces Christ in this religion, but… why? Francis suggests a Prior Cheroki might be able to translate the symbols…we'll see if he can or not.
Anyway, see where I'm getting at? Francis seems to know quite a bit, but hebrew is completely unknown to him? I wonder if the Lord Abbot, the founder, or whoever is the govering body of this faith variant is intentionally concealing the truth from practitioners. Too early to guess.
No.70215
>>70210I bought it but never read it, maybe one day haha
No.70216
2"The gold-capped tooth kept winking and glittering at the corner of his eye while Brother Francis heaved and strained at the desk drawers. The drawers refused to budge. He gave the desk a final kick and turned to glare impatiently at the skull: Why don't you grin at something else for a change?"The Western imagination has a deep sense for the idea of unearthing lost civilizations, and sometimes civilizations more advanced than the ones making the discovery. This is probably due to the Early Renaissance and men like Petrarch, Biondo, and Bracciolini, who founded archaeology by unearthing Latin texts, Roman artifacts and buildings during the 13th century. That stuff made its way to popular imagination big time and perhaps the fascination with decadence and fall of civilizations also come from that, who knows. In this chapter, we get those same sentiments of discovery and wonder, but in this case we’re the lost civilization the character is unearthing. This switch in perspective makes the whole thing very interesting.
>>70209Yeah I quite like the idea of Christianity changing so much over the centuries to the point this stuff happens. I think this is something that kinda happened to Buddhism to a degree, where Gautama became a minor figure in his own religion with the Pure Land and stuff like that once Buddhism spread towards the East and the centuries went on. We'll see how it goes.
>>70211Christianity changed so much apparently that such things now happen. He's training to be a monk or is a monk already, one would think if that knowledge was still part of the religion he would at least heard about it. He seems like a very religious guy.
No.70217
>>70216Chapter 2 comments
Alright so I was wrong. It looked like Leibowitz was a mere Saint/Beatus, the Catholic church survived in the form of New Rome. Holy Virgin and Blessed Mother were mentioned which implies the existence of Christ. Now I am confused as to what this weird form of Catholicism is supposed to be.
The order preoccupation with collecting pre-apocalypse books and papers immediately reminds me of the Brotherhood of Steel from the Fallout series while their treatment of technology and knowledge as holy reminds me the Adeptus Mechanicus from Warhammer 40,000. Probably an inspiration for both series.
Gotta read on to know more. There is a lot more reference to Christianity and use of latin than I expected. I am going to miss a lot of allusions since I am uneducated when it comes to Christianity and latin. There was a whole paragraph near the chapter end about people in the Vatican arguing theology that I just ignored.
No.70218
3"Fingo was undoubtedly the ugliest man alive, and when he laughed, the vast display of pink gums and huge teeth of assorted colors added little in his charm; he was a sport, but the sport could scarcely be called monstrous; it was a rather common hereditary pattern in the Minnesota country from whence he came; it produced baldness and a very uneven distribution of melanin, so that the gangling monk's hide was a patchwork of beef-liver and chocolate splashes on an albino background."Confession time and misunderstandings galore for Francis and Father Cheroki. I quite enjoyed Fingo. The fact that he manages to be accepted by the community through sheer merriment despite his ugliness is very amusing to me. I was also amused by his physical description. Welp, now people in the upper echelons of the Church are becoming aware of Francis’s discovery, we will see where it goes.
>>70217I came into this book pretty much blind. I picked it because it is considered a science fiction classic, so I knew I would not be wasting people’s time with it. I also knew it has been a considerable influence on Fallout and other video games, so I figured the chances of people being interested in reading it with me would be higher. lol Gaming is popular, after all!
No.70220
>>70218Short chapter this time. Nothing to say although the Catholic terms about Host and whatnot still confuse me.
No.70221
>>70220For sure! I'm not too concerned about it though because I think it's weird on purpose.
No.70222
4
"In his own mind, there was no neat straight line separating the Natural from the Supernatural order, but rather, an intermediate twilight zone. There were things that were clearly natural, and there were Things that were clearly supernatural, but between these extremes was a region of confusion (his own)—the preternatural—where things made of mere earth, air, fire, or water tended to behave disturbingly like Things. For Brother Francis, this region included whatever he could see but not understand."
I enjoyed this chapter quite a lot. Abbot Arko’s interrogation is both hilarious and profound. The idea of a twilight zone between the natural and the supernatural, and how this zone plays on one’s own ignorance, creating a gap where strange things happen that you can’t fully analyze or grasp, is really interesting. I think this is how religion works, to a certain degree.
No.70223
>>70222I like the twilight zone idea too. Must be how all pre-modern people see the world. It sounds like it can enrich and deepen someone's experience of life as long as it doesn't go too far into the realm of delusions or psychosis. I enjoy the character interactions too. Arkos' authoritative political maneuvering and Francis sincere simpleness make a good dynamic. It's almost like a comedic skit.
No.70226
5"The continent was lightly settled. He thought of the wall-map in the abbey's library, and of the sparse distribution of the crosshatched areas, which were regions—if not of civilization—then of civil order, where some form of lawful sovereignty, transcending the tribal, held sway. The rest of the continent was populated, very thinly, by the people of the forest and the plain, who were, for the most part, not savages, but simple clanfolk loosely organized into small communities here and there, who lived by hunting, gathering, and primitive agriculture, whose birth rate was barely high enough (discounting monster-births and sports) to sustain the population."This chapter was mostly world-building, specifically some Church traditions in this post-deluge age. That wiz that was glancing over the more Churchy bits is probably not going to enjoy this chapter very much. But we get to know more about this world as well, and what's going on in the continent.
>>70223I think that if you replace supernatural with unknown, that’s generally how we still function as secular individuals. Maybe the supernatural is out of vogue in post-modern, industrialized societies, but the fringes of knowledge and the familiar are still where all the cool stuff happens.
No.70229
>>70226I like this one actually because I like the world building. I did find the Lent celebration confusing but I get the gist from googling the terms. The ornithologist cat metaphor was interesting too and applicable to a lot of chan users.
Most relatable to me personally is Francis talking about not being able to return to an illiterate shepherd life after learning scholarly knowledge in the abbey that has no demand outside of it. If after spending the early age of my life studying intellectual subjects like literature, mathematics, science, history and such, and then leaving the ivory tower my only choice of work is to mindlessly slave at an assembly line or sell real estate to people I'd rather die fighting nomads in the Northwest too.
No.70234
6In all parts of the world men fled from one place to other places, and there was a confusion of tongues. Much wrath was kindled against the princes and the servants of the princes and against the magi who had devised the weapons. Years passed, and yet the Earth was not cleansed. So it was clearly recorded in the Memorabilia.In the previous chapter, we had a description of the world as it is; in this one, we get the history of how it came to be that way. Not much actual history, but rather a kind of myth, a simplification of the facts, pun intended. It reminds me of that Lord of the Rings quote: 'History became legend. Legend became myth.' It echoes many things in real history, but the parallel that came to mind immediately was the Chinese Cultural Revolution, when many members of the nation’s intelligentsia were killed. Also, the idea of booklegging is lovely.
>>70229I was wondering if you were going to like it, good to know you did. Francis is becoming a punching bag in this story, we'll where it goes.
No.70236
>>70234Scary how ignorant and anti-intellectual the average person can be. Also Francis could have avoided all his problems if he had just lie but considering the theme of the chapter, the author likely considered sabotaging your well-being to tell the truth a virtue. Maybe it's worth it if the truth is really important to you but Francis isn't even sure himself if the old man was the saint or not.
No.70240
7"Well keep at it, Brother! How clever they must have been, those ancients—to know how to untwist nothing. Keep at it, and you may learn how. Then we'd have the "electron" in our midst, wouldn't we? Whatever would we do with it? Put it on the altar in the chapel?"This is my favorite chapter so far. Francis is finally promoted, the nice lad, and the idea of modern culture and science becoming forgotten knowledge and incomprehensible relics is fully expressed. In a way it's like a medieval man traveled to the future and we get his understanding of the times, pretty good. Abbot Arkos's sagacity is also on full display, all very interesting and fascinating.
>>70236You were right about Arkos political maneuvering, in this chapter we get to see more of it. Yeah Francis had it hard but it looks like his life is improving now.
No.70241
>>70240The question about the blueprints piqued my curiosity so I looked it up at learn about cyanotype. Interesting. Copy illumination is also another interesting topic. It sounds bewildering to us modern men with plenty of entertainment why someone would give themselves more work but when you have nothing to do but copy manuscript all day you might as well inject some amount of human spirit into your art by drawing beautiful things. Electrons being a "Negative Twist of Nothingness" is incomprehensible to me. There is a Physics Stack Exchange thread on it and they also think it doesn't reflect any understanding in modern physics and is only tangentially related to some obsolete interpretation. Untwisted nothingness is a funny phrase to thing about.
Also we still have 23 chapters to go. If each chapters produce two comments that's 46 more posts on the general reading thread. Would you like to make a separate thread? I mean it could make the reading thread unwelcome to other wizards who want to talk about other books.
No.70247
8"Francis felt fright when he first tapped at Aguerra's door, but he saw quickly that the fright was unfounded. The prothonotary was a suave and diplomatic elder who seemed keenly interested in the small monk's life."The Dominicans have finally arrived to check the vault. Life goes on as usual in the monastery. Here we have several little scenes stitched together depicting domestic life in the monastery. Very nice and soothing.
>>70241I don't want to kill a hob thread just for this, it'll just be dead weight when we're done with it in a few weeks. Besides, most of the reviews you see in this thread are mine, there's like 2 or 3 other dudes in here, I don't think we're hurting the pacing of the thread. That's my opinion, anyway. I like to have the reading thread trending at /all/, maybe more people will feel like talking about the books they're reading (they won't).
No.70248
>>70247All right then. Btw I am the only person who have been replying to your daily reports. There is at least one other wiz who joined discussion in the first day but every posts after that has only been us from two. Maybe they're lurking but even if they missed a few days I highly welcome anybody to rejoin or join our book club in the middle. The chapters are short and there hasn't been much to discuss anyway.
No.70253
9"Brother Jeris developed ambitions of building a printing press, but Arkos quashed the plan when he heard of it. There was neither sufficient paper nor proper ink available, nor any demand for inexpensive books in a world smug in its illiteracy. The copyroom continued with pot and quill."And so the process is concluded and Leibowitz is canonized at last. Seems like we'll be visiting New Rome soon.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70248I really appreciate you sticking around, wiz. Wizchan is dead, imageboards are mostly dead and the internet I hear is dying, so it's significant we're keeping this small thing here going for the duration of the book. I suppose I should be posting the link to the book, too, so I'll do that from now on.
No.70254
>>70253Guess we'll get to see more of the world outside of the abbey, which means good old worldbuilding. I wonder if the decision to not develop a printing press is wise. Maybe there isn't enough pulp to make paper since it was mentioned that wood is scarce and ink expensive. If someone wants to develop this world, the first order of action would probably be to conquer whole swathe of lands first and ensure safety and stability of trade and travel so talent and resource can be gathered in one place.
No.70257
10"The trip to New Rome would require at least three months, perhaps longer, the time depending to some extent on the distance which Francis could cover before the inevitable band of robbers relieved him of his ass. He would be traveling alone and unarmed, carrying only his bindlestiff and begging bowl in addition to the relic and its illuminated replica."Alright, that’s completely idiotic. You know for a fact you’ll get robbed, and still you send one flimsy guy with not just a piece of art worthy of being a gift to the Pope, but also the irreplaceable, original relic that inspired it?! Ridiculous! I would even call this a plot hole. I can’t conceive of the monks being this stupid. What do you think, wiz? I have no explanation for this behavior.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70254Well, apparently the monks are too dense to think about such things. After what they pulled in this chapter, I can't speak for their intelligence.
No.70258
>>70257Yeah that was a weird thing to do. I can't predict how safe travelling would evolve in a lawless world but certainly nobody would entrust something so important to a lone unarmed guy. They could have travel in large groups with weapons or hitch a ride with a caravan travelling the same direction. Hell Francis mentioned in earlier chapters that he is good with a bow and it's common for the Christians of that world to assemble in armies.
No.70262
11The Pontiff moved on, speaking to each pilgrim in the line, and when it was over: the solemn benediction. The audience had ended.And so it ends the first part of the novel. Gotta tell you, as soon as Francis got the money, I knew what was coming to him. I enjoyed the bulk of the chapter that narrates the ecclesiastical procedures and everything that Francis saw, but didn't enjoy the ending for our hero. It felt like the monks got dumbed down a lot in the last two chapters.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70258They never heard of convoys, caravans, nothing. If they were an isolated monastery without any awareness of the outside, then I would kind of get it, but they get visitors and pilgrims with some regularity, it seems, so there's really no excuse I can think of.
No.70264
>>70262The monks were so dumb I had to look up the author to see what's up with him. According to wikipedia:
>During World War II, he served in the Army Air Forces as a radioman and tail gunner, flying more than fifty bombing missions over Italy. He took part in the bombing of the Benedictine Abbey at Monte Cassino, which proved a traumatic experience for him.[1] Joe Haldeman reported that Miller "had post-traumatic stress disorder for 30 years before it had a name", and that Miller displayed a photograph he had taken of Ron Kovic (some kind of anti-war activist I think) prominently in his living room.[2]
>After the war, Miller converted to Catholicism.Apparently after the success of A canticle for Leibowitz he became a depressed recluse and didn't publish anything until his death when a manuscript for the sequel was found. So it seems that he hated war and is mentally tortured by his experiences. Maybe the monks is stand in for the naive love-conquers pacifists of his time. Perhaps Francis death serves as a criticism or a catharsis for the author by depicting viewpoints he hated gets proven wrong. I don't know. I can only speculate. Oh well, at least Francis is done with. Maybe the next character will be less frustrating.
No.70268
12Marcus Apollo became certain of war's imminence the moment he overheard Hannegan's third wife tell a serving maid that her favorite courtier had returned with his skin intact from a mission to the tents of Mad Bear's clan.This chapter makes me think that maybe the end of the last chapter was to emphasize how dangerous the tribes roaming this world are? Somebody has to die to show they mean business. Let's see how this war goes.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70264That's interesting. I didn't check his wiki or the book's, I was afraid there might be spoilers in there somewhere.
No.70269
>>70268Leaving the abbey was a nice change of pace. Finally we have the perspectives of people who seem to be intelligent. I am ready for some post-apocalyptic Texan warring states period or at least our characters' subplot before the war.
No.70271
13"It's true! The old wretch nearly cleaned me out, and then refused to allow me credit. I had to stake my glass eye against the goat. But I won everything back."By far my favorite part of this chapter is the poet character. His conversation with Dom Paulo is quite amusing and like Dom Paulo suspects of Marcus Apollo's letter, I suspect there's something between the lines with this poet guy, living in what appears luxurious conditions (several rooms to himself, apparently he doesn't work, steals wines and nobody cares, etc.) Well, he'll be moving from the guest house now, we'll see how the next chapter goes.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70269I get a feeling we'll be seeing the war as background to the events in the monastery rather than the frontlines, but that's fine.
No.70272
>>70271"If he's lonely, why does he insist on living like a hermit?""To escape loneliness– in a young world."The young priest laughed. "That perhaps makes his kind of
sense, Domne, but I don't quite see it.""You will, when you're my age, or his." Poet, hermit, electrical guy. After the total bore of part one's characters we finally see colorful sorts. We'll see how Kornhoer generate electricity next. Probably going to be a hand powered generator but would be funny if it's some kind of cartoon stationary bike.
No.70274
14Now a Dark Age seemed to be passing. For twelve centuries, a small flame of knowledge had been kept smoldering in the monasteries; only now were their minds ready to be kindled.This was a pretty good chapter, lots of things going on here. There's hope for humanity and sure enough, the lamp is re-invented, an object that has been the representation of human thought and genius since its inception. Fingo's statue finally finds its audience, a religious symbol is removed from the library, which I'm sure is a nod to the Renaissance, and an old man is now carrying the cross.
>>70272No more candles for those guys, the lamp is here.
No.70275
>>70274Does the chalice have to be now right this very minute Lord or can I wait awhile? But crucifixion is always now. Now ever since before Abraham even is always now. Before Pfardentrott even, now. Always for everybody anyhow is to get nailed on it and then to hang on it and if you drop off they beat you to death with a shovel so do it with dignity old man. If you can belch with dignity you may get to Heaven if you're sorry enough about messing up the rugPoor Dom Paulo. Understandably stressful that your little desert abbey which was frozen in time and had continued the same routine for 40 generations suddenly discover electricity and is about to be visited by a cousin of the emperor. I still wonder how they're going to power the electricity though. Is there strong enough river for hydropower? Do they know about coal? Maybe warlords will just make slaves push on a giant mill out of Conan the Barbarian.
No.70278
15"Water! Ye gods, why can't we drink water, Thon Taddeo? There's such a thing as too much conformity!" He spat dryly. "Blood! Blah! It sticks in the throat. Why can't we have one little sip of—"In this short chapter we get to see some of barbarians. They felt rather generic to me but I liked the parts with Taddeo. And just like that we're halfway through the book.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70275It would be funny to generate electricity by wheel of pain. You would need an electric dynamo to convert mechanical energy to electrical. If the monks could come up with that, then they certainly could think of water wheels or perhaps wind turbines.
No.70280
>>70278Interesting. The pastoralists vs farmers conflict for water and land is also happening in Africa right now. I wonder if it was a historically common relation around the world. The only drinking blood thing sounds ridiculous. No way they can have enough blood for everyone. Maybe it's just a rule that high-ranking warriors follow and even then blood clot, rot and cannot be stored but it was an opportunity for Thon Taddeo to show the reader his rationality and open mindedness. Hongan Os is as generic as a savage as he can be.
No.70281
Just read "My Twisted World". It was an interesting read although Rodger's attitude throughout the book is quite repulsive. He really is the quintessential failed normalfag. I honestly think he could have gotten what he wanted if he had actually tried approaching succubi rather than expecting succubi to ask him out. Also, I feel grateful that I was never really bothered by my lack of a sex life. He really seems to have had a torturous existence leading up to his "Day of Retribution".
No.70282
16"Godspeed, old man. After Brother Kornhoer reinvents the flying machine, I'll send up some novices to drop rocks on you."We finally get a closer look at the mysterious hermit. Some religious banter between Christianity and Judaism ensues.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70280I'm sure it is. Limited resources and all that.
No.70284
>>70282Love my religious references. I was never raised in an Abrahamic household, so like the Japanese animators, I find abrahamic religions exotic and interesting. Benjamin's story is sad. It's one thing to be lonely because you can't fit in with your tribe and another because you are the last of your tribe and there is nobody else in the world who knows your languages, your beliefs, your memories of communal ceremonies or whatever. It's like if you tell someone of the same culture your stories of celebrating a cultural holiday, you may not know each other but just by saying things like christmas tree or ramadhan dinner, people living across the world will be able to recall their own memories of experiencing those things along with their emotions associated with it. Being the last of your tribe means there is nobody else in the world who can understand. Explaining to other people is like if an African bushmen tries to explain to us that they have to hunt lions as a coming of age ritual. We can logically understand and imagine how it works but as there is no lived experience, it means nothing to us. We might as well be listening to something a schizo hallucinated.
No.70287
i waiting for my book to arrive
No.70292
17"Man the walls! Close the gates! Let down the shield! Break out the—"
"Wait, they're not all nomads, Domne."
"Oh?" Dom Paulo turned to peer again.Alright so this chapter gives us some clues about this war and its geographical location. We have Laredo, Mad Bear's nomads, the State of Chihuahua, and Hannegan's Texarkana. It seems we're in the US–Mexico border region. There were clues before but this chapter settles it, I believe.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70284It's true, the idea of lost culture permeates the whole book, hell, I think it's the main theme!
No.70293
>>70292I haven't been reading this book but i imagined this i don't know why
No.70295
>>70292We grand strategy gaming now. Dom Paulo is scared of his order's mission taken over by secular scholars and becoming useless. I say there is no glory in copying and memorizing books anyway. Pass it over to the seculars and let the monk be free.
>>70293Warring empires in post apocalyptic great plains region? Just typical boy's imagination.
No.70298
18The vigil on the stairs descended to take their posts. Four monks manned the treadmill. The fifth monk hovered over the dynamo. The sixth monk climbed the shelf-ladder and took his seat on the top rung, his head bumping the top of the archway. He pulled a mask of smoke-blackened oily parchment over his face to protect his eyes, then felt for the lamp fixture and its thumbscrew, while Brother Kornhoer watched him nervously from below.We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70293A lot of this book has been incorporate in video games, movies and TV series, so if you've played/watched post-apoc stuff, chances are you're familiar with some of the ideas in there, even if you didn't read it.
>>70295Well look at that, it wasn't Conan's wheel of pain, but the treadmill of pain.
No.70302
>>70298oh, I see, i didn't think of that.
how many guys are reading this book in this thread? any idea?
No.70304
19"It's Kornhoer himself I don't understand. That gadget—" he waggled a forefinger at the dynamo "—is a standing broad-jump across about twenty years of preliminary experimentation, starting with an understanding of the principles. Kornhoer just dispensed with the preliminaries. You believe in miraculous interventions? I don't, but there you have a real case of it. Wagon wheels!" He laughed. "What could he do if he had a machine shop? I can't understand what a man like that is doing cooped up in a monastery."Secular and technical knowledge slowly gains importance. Something that began with the removal of the cross in the library, now we have this idea floating around that technical skill surpasses a life dedicated to God.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70299Looks cool!
No.70306
>>70304That's some grim foreshadowing. After they keep mentioning it I don't think the abbey will escape a war between Hannegan and Denver now. At least it looks like they are about to finish their mission of preserving old world knowledge until it can be used again. Thon Thaddeo will carry the torch now so it won't really be a burning of Alexandria.
No.70308
20"It may take generations to evaluate and understand some of these things. It is unfortunate that they must remain here in this inaccessible place, for it will take a concentrated effort by numerous scholars to make meaning of them. I am sure you realize that your present facilities are inadequate—not to mention 'inaccessible' to the rest of the world."This chapter plays like a miniature of the Renaissance, at least as far as its main theme. Science must rise, based on the old world, organized theology did its part keeping ancient knowledge safe to cross safely the gab of the dark ages and now it must be 'returned' to the world.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70306This chapter definitely plays on the things you're talking about.
No.70309
>>70308Alright this is the part where I think the symbolism went over my head. What's up with Benjamin and the Thon? I think Benjamin was waiting for a Messiah of sort. Idk what the messiah is supposed to save him from in this case, his loneliness? His burden? He came to verify if Thon Thaddeo, which I assume represents science and progress, is the messiah for him and determine that he was not. So science and learning is not the savior he is looking for but again savior from what? War as an extension of the original sin? Thon Thaddeo make a speech about how the path to ignorance being replaced by truth is going to be bloody and violent but the world is already violent as it is. Is the author's message here that humans are doomed to their original sin, that is to always wage war, regardless if they live in primitive ignorance or high tech enlightenment and that science will not be the one to save them from their sin? For Benjamin, to save himself from his burden of carrying the history of his people, which Dom Paulo equated to the original sin of humans? That is my best interpretation of the event so far. There is definitely something meaningful in the interaction between characters. The poet probably represent something too I am not sure. Sounds like he is just pointing out the absurdity of everybody.
No.70313
21"No, no—Twelve centuries ago, not even the survivors profited. Must we start down that road again?"The cycle of humanity goes through is fully exposed in this chapter. Rebirth and destruction, or, to quote a video game that appropriated a lot from this book; War. War never changes.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70309This one has a lot of narrative about Poet again. If you're looking for an auxiliary reading, check out this site;
https://www.coursehero.com/lit/A-Canticle-for-Leibowitz/. It gives you a summary of each chapter with an analysis to go along with it, pretty interesting stuff. I'm using it myself.
No.70315
>>70313I get the feeling the author hates the fact that scientists are not political enough. He's sounding like one of those "We can all solve this problem, if only YOU care!" activists.
No.70321
22Whereas a certain foreign prince, one Benedict XXII, Bishop of New Rome, presuming to assert an authority which is not rightly his over the clergy of this nation, has dared to attempt, first, to place the Texarkanan Church under a sentence of interdict, and, later, to suspend this sentence, thereby creating great confusion and spiritual neglect among all the faithful, We, the only legitimate ruler over the Church in this realm, acting in concord with a council of bishops and clergy, hereby declare to Our loyal people that the aforesaid prince and bishop, Benedict XXII, is a heretic, simoniac, murderer, sodomite, and atheist, unworthy of any recognition by Holy Church in lands of Our kingdom, empire, or protectorate. Who serves him serves not Us.Religious and secular powers clash for dominance. There's a direct reference here to Henry VIII and the Church of England. There are lots of little things going on in this chapter, and I quite like it, especially the vultures part.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70315I have scientists in my immediate family and I don't think people fully grasp how being a scientist really is just another crummy desk job. Fiction have completely distorted the picture.
No.70322
>>70321>I don't think people fully grasp how being a scientist really is just another crummy desk jobMake sense. This chapter like the science vs religion debate commonly seen in like early 2010s internet. In this case the debate are between advocate or activists. Priests on the side of religion and science champions on the side on science. In reality most scientists are probably closer to the rank-and-file monks that just do their jobs and obligations in the abbey. They are probably biased towards their side but not as invested as the abbot or Thon Thaddeo or the science vs religions debaters.
No.70325
23Then, after the generations of the darkness came the generations of the light. And they called it the Year of Our Lord 3781—a year of His peace, they prayed.And that's it. Corpses in the fields, time goes on.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70322We're on the last stretch now!
No.70327
>>70325Another part ending with death and buzzards. Onto the next.
No.70328
24The world's been in a habitual state of crisis for fifty years. Fifty?" What am I saying? It's been in a habitual state of crisis since the beginning—but for half a century now, almost unbearable. And why, for the love of God? What is the fundamental irritant, the essence of the tension? Political philosophies? Economics? Population pressure? Disparity of culture and creed? Ask a dozen experts, get a dozen answers. Now Lucifer again. Is the species congenitally insane, Brother? If we're born mad, where's the hope of Heaven?Well the world in on crisis again, bombs falling and all that. I didn't much care for this chapter, we've seen this cycle in the previous parts of the novel. Let's hope there's something new here, other than dressing it in sci-fi.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up No.70329
>>70328It's a complete sudden jump from an interesting post apocalyptic world into just our current world but slightly different tech. But the writer does not seem to care for genre fictions nor worldbuilding and only see the setting as a vehicle to deliver his message.
No.70330
25Centuries old, but recently widened, the highway was the same road used by pagan armies, pilgrims, peasants, donkey carts, nomads, wild horsemen out of the East, artillery, tanks, and ten-ton trucks. Its traffic had gushed or trickled or dripped, according to the age and season. Once before, long ago, there had been six lanes and robot traffic. Then the traffic had stopped, the paving had cracked, and sparse grass grew in the cracks after an occasional rain. Dust had covered it. Desert dwellers had dug up its broken concrete for the building of hovels and barricades. Erosion made it a desert trail, crossing wilderness. But now there were six lanes and robot traffic, as before.Space Jesus, Christians mutants, nuclear bombs and the cycle of civilization. It's hard to imagine Christianity having any real foothold in the world stage in a highly advanced, technocratic civilization. We're barely out of the woods now in 2025, Christianity is rapidly fading and the Pope doesn't really have any political power anymore.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70329I feel like this part of the book were written to make it into a full novel.
No.70331
>>70330Lucifer has fallen. Billions must die.
Let's see if this message gets through. My cousin's ISP is range banned by wizchan apparently so I am using mobile data. I have to attend some family gatherings for a few days so I might get tired these next few days. Hopefully I still can keep up with the daily reading.
No.70332
26Look, you'll have to decide. You have less experience with star ships than any of the others. None of the others is ordained. Someone has to be partially released from technical duties for pastoral and administrative duties.There's an interesting mishmash of imagery here, of ancient sounding churchy stuff and high tech talk.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70331Good luck with the family stuff, hopefully you can stick around, we're almost done with this one.
No.70335
27 "Look at them. They're sick, hurt, fractured, frightened. The children too. Tired, lame, and miserable. You'd let them be herded off down the highway to sit in the dust and the sun and—"Humanity never learns. state-sponsored suicide, Poet became a saint and the devil is always running loose.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
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https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up No.70338
28'If you love your child, spare her the agony. Go to sleep mercifully as quick as you can.'A discussion about euthanasia. It feels played out, didn't care one bit for it. It's weird bringing this up when it's so close to the end, I feel like these last chapters should be used to wrap things up.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up No.70339
>>70338Finally got enough time to myself to catch up with the chapters. Huh, I remember that whole text about Zeke the cat posted in an old wizchan thread about interesting quotes. Man that is so long ago. Reading it back now, I can only think about how this wouldn't be a problem if Zerchi just killed his cat competently. Very anti euthanasia chapter with Zerchi unable to set aside his faith for an emergency.
No.70340
29More than five tons back there. Eighteen centuries back there. The blast had broken open the crypts, for he noticed a few bones caught between the rocks. He groped with his free hand, encountered something smooth, and finally worked it free.The living meet the dead in the cycle of life. I think this novel is a long way of saying there's nothing new under the sun. It's the pessimistic side of Christianity I suppose.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70339Good to see you're back. Just in time for the shortest final chapter I've ever seen in a novel.
No.70341
>>70340War. War never changes.
It's the same theme of Fallout games though this book has a strong Christian message in it too. Rachel is supposed to be Jesus I think and is supposed to give a vindication to the abbot for staying true to God even with so much suffering in the world. He believes that God doesn't give a burden that they cannot bear and if you just remain steadfast there'll be a reward. The euthanasia in the last chapter seems to represent the opposite view of giving in to suffering and nihilism, the ethics of killing part is less important.
No.70342
>>70340Are you going to be doing another wizchan reading? I would like to try and join in next time. I missed the canticle of leibowitz one
No.70343
30The last monk, upon entering, paused in the lock. He stood in the open hatchway and took off his sandals. "Sic transit mundus," he murmured, looking back at the glow. He slapped the soles of his sandals together, beating the dirt out of them The glow was engulfing a third of the heavens. He scratched his beard, took one last look at the ocean, then stepped back and closed the hatch.That's a suitable ending for a novel expressing cycle. Good point to wrap things up. Overall I enjoyed it. It didn't wowed me to be honest. The central idea, rise and fall of civilizations, is common currency in fiction. The first part is where it shines in my opinion, and then it was a slow descent towards the end. Still, pretty good, and it's a classic science fiction novel, definitely a must-read if you want to be well read in the genre.
>>70341How did you like the novel?
>>70342I wasn't planning to start another one right now, wiz. Maybe soon.
No.70344
>>70343>How did you like the novel?It's the first novel I've read in a long time. There is more symbolism than I am used to but I seem to understand most of it. I think it may be a bit heavy handed with the moralizing but maybe back in 50s it was pushing new ideas. WW2 was still fresh in memory after all so people could appreciate anti war messaging more. This kind of non-partisan government-critical pacifism probably contributed to the hippie movement later. In any case, I think it was interesting.