No.38278
Want to start learning Japanese?
Here's some useful links to help you out.
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http://realkana.com/ (tool to learn the kana)
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http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar (Tae Kim's grammar guide)
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http://pastebin.com/kXqhRbWi (setting up Anki)
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http://jisho.org/ (Japanese-English dictionary)
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http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/ - (Actual Japanese dictionary for rare words and alternate definitions)
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https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/yomichan/ (Popup dictionary definitions when you hover over a word, Chrome version is called yomichan)
みんなさん、がんばって！
Last threads:
>>28755https://wizchan.org/jp/archive/res/25255.htmlhttps://wizchan.org/jp/archive/res/19661.html No.38289
how long would you need to study japanese to reasonably navigate around tokyo or other big cities in japan on your own? I want to go but I'm no good beyond basic communication skills and I'm not really comfortable being illiterate and lost
No.38290
>>38289The big cities are actually quite english friendly and at any train station or hotel you could find an attendant who speaks english. Signs and announcements as well usually alternate between a japanese and english version.
To actually answer how much you should know, I would recommend focusing on vocabulary and kanji and stick to basic grammar. I found it was more important to know what words people were saying rather than the relation between them. And kanji is very necessary because most signs are written in kanji, and unless you are reading something written for kids it will not have the furigana above it. Also many names, especially that of places, are kanji and many are just expected to be known by even little kids just because they are ubiquitous (words like come and go).
No.38291
>>38290how often do people use non-jouyou kanji in real life or on signs/shops?
No.38328
https://easyjapanese.net/I found this website, it has a lot of features to help you read simple news I think a bit better than NHKeasy, I'm at 4 months studying and slowly getting through these articles. I don't ever really read news so everything is pretty new to me. I find it easier to just read the sentences and not try to interpret them to english, rather it's easier to just accept that the point was gotten to me and I don't need to know what it would be in english
No.38440
>>38337これはすごく便利なリンクだよ。シェアしてありがとう。アニメじゃない映画とドラマとかを見たいけど、どこで見るか分からなかった。でも、アノんのおかげで、今いいリンクを見つけた。
No.38491
>Moe cancer threads thriving
>Actual Japanese learning thread is dead
Adds up for this crowd
No.38492
>>38491>this crowdWhat do you mean?
No.38493
>>38491Yes, we are all normalfag ironic weebs here. Leave.
No.38494
>>38440ありがとうございます。日本語を何時から勉強した。僕はあの文らが中々難しくないんです。
No.38495
>>38491>Moe cancerWhatever do you mean?
No.38496
PC is fucking dead, is there any way I can learn on my android phone for the next few days? I'm a beginner so I can't read most stuff without yomichan, since I don't know the kanji
No.38499
>>38494>日本語を何時から勉強した2年間勉強していると思う。大学で勉強してる。一人で日本語を学べないんだw。
>僕はあの文らが中々難しくないんですいいぞ！勉強しつづけて、アノン！
No.38821
>>38820im mentally handicapped too, im slowly learning though
No.38822
hello how are every one today ?
No.38977
anyone interested in learning still? I'm growing slowly, don't mind explaining some grammar even though I'm still kinda low
No.39085
I feel like I'll never learn japanese fluently, I've been studying for 9 months and I'm at like a baby level, I could probably ask for directions or ask for food/water and tell people if I understand them or not, and maybe ask for stuff at the grocery
No.39125
>>390859 months is not a very long time in the context of language learning, especially if your native language is linguistically distant (e.g.: English-Japanese). So keep it up!
No.39175
>>39174
>>39174
why so mean
No.39176
>>39174
why post that in this of all threads, it's one of the few where people are actually doing something constructive
No.39178
>>39176It's two years old and nobody has anything to show for it. The entire board is doomed crabs who failed to learn Japanese and obliterate their dopamine wiring from watching little anime succubi. It's quite possibly the most unproductive thread on the internet.
No.39179
>>39178nah I've learn tons of japanese since the original thread
No.39180
>>39179Since 2016? Big whoop. It doesn't show and a few outliers doesn't make up for the overall inefficiencies compared to pro classes. This is one of the biggest chans so there's no real excuse.
No.39182
>>39180maybe people just don't post about it
No.39184
>>39182Why are you even replying? What's the purpose of his posts in the first place? Just let him crawl back to whatever hole he came out of.
No.39237
Just finished reading Utawarerumono. I remember being a lot more into Touka in the anime. I wonder if she stepped up her VA game in between them. Now I've got like 5 days to make it though part 2 before the anime for 3 starts…
No.39240
>>39239Yeah. I was actually expecting a little more to be honest, I quite liked the anime, and adaptations are usually so-so, I find. Guess they did a really good job with it, managed to fit most of it in there, too. I don't mean it as a complaint, I had a good time with it, don't think I ever felt disappointed, it just made me respect the work they put into the anime that much more.
The gameplay was actually fun, basic as it was. Had a bit of a giggle seeing them talk up Genjimaru that much while Oboro (made him my striker since he was so fast, literally every point in damage/tech) was just tearing through like half the field on his own without giving enough time for the rest of the gang to get into a proper formation. Pretty nice mix of units in the game, too.
>It's nice to finally see at least one cultured anon still hanging around here though, even made me respond.I'm not much for these kinds of general hangout threads, but I do lurk.
And thanks. I'm really looking forward to it. Always liked the characters there a lot better. Actually found Hakuoro to be outright annoying at times in the anime what with all the angst and moping and the VA literally moaning all the time. Haku always felt like a pretty direct response and foil to Hakuoro to me, and I like that. He's just a good time.
Sounds interesting, doing a deep delve like that. It's always fun when you find a new genre or something and go to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes. I'm in the exact opposite phase here, just skimming the surface of the medium, seeing what I like. Think I broke my streak of never having read anything but works that already have translations like two months ago.
>There's a sort of creative chaos in free Japanese VNs that I really enjoy.I can't really speak for VNs, obviously, but I've found the same with anime/manga and a few other things. The less people involved in making something, the more… pure, for lack of a better word, an experience it tends to be. Weirder, more unique, raw… I like that. My favourites are rarely what I would call the best made, or most polished. It's that weird, unique stuff. The things you don't find anywhere else. It really can't be overstated how blessed they are with their doujin culture.
No.39241
>>39240>The less people involved in making something, the more… pure, for lack of a better word, an experience it tends to be. Weirder, more unique, raw… I like that.Not that anon, but I relate to this heavily. One of my favourite VNs - see pic - is pretty much this, you can tell the writer just basically did whatever they wanted, unrestricted, and considered how long-winded it got at parts, probably minimally edited. Made for a brilliant and hugely immersive experience with very unique and deep worldbuilding.
I wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone who is at a bit more advanced stage of learning Japanese.
No.39415
I tried taking the JLPT for the very first time this July, and managed to pass N1.
Just did it for fun, since it's very cheap to do so in my country, don't actually need it for anything. Wasn't as hard as I expected honestly, though listening felt especially tough at the time.
No.39457
>>39415Do you mind going more into detail? What was it like? I'm planning to enter into the next JLPT and try N1, I probably don't have to worry about failing since there's still a long time until then, but this'll be my first time taking JLPT so I might just be getting cocky.
No.39464
>>39457The only actual practice I did was the question sampler on
https://www.jlpt.jp/You just need good time management really since it's kinda tight, 110 minutes for vocab, grammar, and reading, no breaks, so if you're stuck on a question you have to move on.
Listening I probably should have practised as I had no idea what structure the exercises would follow, and in N1 they only play the audio once it is not easy. I was not prepared at all for some of the problems having no text at all on the page and the question and answer list is audio only, played once. Thankfully I still got 40/60 pts in the listening section somehow.
No.39479
>>39464I see. I'm glad there's no autistic training regimen needed to pass it. Reading sounds like a bitch and listening too, especially with how you can only listen once. I guess I should be glad that I've recently set my focus on listening practice and already have some decent results. I should probably get to dealing with my
2000 dues though, there were a few words I didn't know in the N1 sampler.
No.39639
ENGLISH IS ALL WHAT YOU NEED
No.39644
>>39639It’s not about need.
No.39645
>>39639You sound like you need more English tomodachi.
No.39647
>>39639If I start cussing in English in real life, a decent chunk of people will understand and be displeased with me. If I start cussing in Japanese in real life, nobody will understand and thus will not be displeased with me even though I'm cussing as hard as possible. That alone is reason enough to suppose that Japanese is superior and that I should learn it.
No.39963
http://www.kanjidamage.com/Found this the other day, feels like I'm actually making progress.
No.40057
>>39950Read a book on Japanese history, all in Japanese. Shouldn't be that far away for me.
>>39963Why not anki instead?
No.40058
I am sort of stuck at a certain stage in learning japanese, I can get an idea of what a japanese person is talking about with a little context if I don't know the words exactly, I can get through say a japanese food review or something similarly casual in japanese and not have too much of an issue. I think my biggest problem is lack of vocabulary
No.40426
>>40425>what are the mistakes to dodge?Don't take days off, study Japanese as frequently as possible.
No.40427
>>40425It's generally accepted that the best approach to learning japanese (and any any other language) is through an immersion approach and lots of comprehensible input i.e. reading/listening to stuff that's close to your current level.
>learn the writing system (hiragana, katakana)>memorize most common 1000-5000 words with anki>read a basic overview of the grammar>jump into reading/listening with books/manga/anime/shows that's at your level>mine new words that you encounter into ankiEventually you build up a high vocabulary and intuitive understanding of how the language should flow and you can start outputting i.e. writing/speaking.
Only thing that's debatable is how to learn kanji. There's a couple approaches, some of which focus on memorizing them individually or their radicals, or you could just learn them in the context of actual words. Either way, it's going to be a pain in the ass.
Here's some popular guides
https://tatsumoto-ren.github.io/blog/tag_faq.htmlhttps://learnjapanese.moe/https://refold.la/roadmap/ - general immersion approach, not JP specific
I'd say it takes 2 years minimum to get at a decent or high-level and that's if you do it every day and take it seriously.
No.40541
I started learning 日本語 several months ago because I wanted to read manga and consume other content in the original language. I kinda underestimated the difficulty and time and effort required to get to the level where I'm able to read stuff with a dictionary. I'm currently a NEET, so I have a lot of free time, but I don't want learning Japanese to occupy all of it.
My current routine is
1. learning kanji on WaniKani (it's convenient because I don't have to think about the pace or order - I'm not sure if there is anything like that avaiable for free?); I complete the reviews and lessons about as soon as they are available.
2. Duolingo: I try to complete my daily quests, which is about five lessons a day. Whenever I encounter new words I add them to Anki with mnemonics from WaniKani. When I reach those items in WaniKani I delete them from Anki.
3. Sometimes I add things I encounter elsewhere to Anki too. I've configured Anki to work similarly to WaniKani so I can type in the answers.
One 弱点 of my routine is that both Anki and WaniKani introduce new items all at once interspersed with reviews, so ~two days a week I have to spend a lot more time on Japanese than on the other days:
On normal days (WaniKani, Duolingo, Anki reviews): ~20 minutes, ~20 minutes, ~20 minutes
On intense days: ~3 hours, ~1-2 hours, ~20minutes
Now that I've reached level 10 on WaniKani, I first plan to start start focussing on grammar (Tae Kim, playlists on youtube, maybe Genki), and then to start consuming content only in Japanese to learn by immersion and in a more fun way. I mainly want to be able to understand Japanese; being able to communicate in Japanese is of a lower priority to me.
No.40542
>>40541I wish you luck, I want to start but don't how to start so maaybe I'll 'ever start learning it , how old are you? is it to late when your 26?
No.40544
>>40542Thanks!
I'm 31. I also can't really think of a reason why you'd be too old to learn a language. Why do you think it might be too late?
No.40545
>>40542it's not about age but general intelligence, that wiz is clearly smarter than me, it took me an entire year to get level 6 in wanikani and he's already level 10 in a few months
No.40546
>>40544because the younger, the better you learn, should have begin during my adolesceent years, now Im sad
No.40547
>>40546take lionsmane, you'll get more neurons.
No.40548
>>40545Could it be that you're holding yourself back because of your beliefs (expectations) about how fast you should go through new items? When new items get unlocked I go through them in one sitting (sometimes with breaks in between) reading the mnemonics and Patterns of Use (but I skip the Context Sentences because they take too much time, I only ever read them if I need more context, which is almost never). I get to go faster through some items because I already encountered them in Duolingo previously. I don't worry about memorizing each item perfectly, because if I get them wrong on the first SRS cycle I can remember them in subsequent cycles. Sometimes WaniKani mnemonics suck so I make my own.
No.40549
>>40546The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The second best time is now.
In short; fuck you faggot you don't have an excuse I don't care if it's much harder now
No.40550
>>40548I think its just the way wanikani works, the more times you get things wrong the longer it takes to level up, I'm just retarded and have a bad memory
No.40559
>>40550You might know this already, but you have level up just the kanji and the radicals to advance. So, I pay extra attention when memorizing those. Also, it's best to do your reviews as soon as they are available, at least for the first few iterations, because the SRS algorithm schedules the reviews for right when you are about to forget the items. The iterations are 4 hours 8 hours 12 hours 24 hours 48 hours, if I remember correctly.
No.40570
>>40541>I'm currently a NEETBrother.
I drilled some vocab and then started reading. When you start reading, I think the most important thing is how much you can minimize the pain in the arse of looking shit up. I don't think there's any better way than texthooking a visual novel and using yomichan. That's what I used. I'd recommend you get reading ASAP. That's when I really started making progress, got motivated, and when I started to dump more time into it, because I wanted to know what happened next in the stories I was reading.
No.40607
I am too lazy to mine decks and learn grammar. I just consoom.
No.40609
>>40607Not worth it in the end anyway. Japslop gets tiring eventually and you are stuck cringe at yourself for learning an asian dialect
No.40620
>>40570I haven't gotten into visual novels and don't know any; I'm more into manga and JRPGs at the moment.
I'm going to look into setting that up on Linux. I think you can text hook manga and games as well, right? Currently I've installed "manga OCR" that scans screen captures and outputs the text to the terminal. It takes more steps than reading with yomichan where you can look up words and add them to Anki as you read.
I've stopped using Duolingo, BTW, because there is some wrong grammar being taught and due to some other flaws.
>>40609Even if Japanese media will ever get tiring I hope Japanese has more to offer than that and there are other reasons why I wanted to learn it.
No.40624
I just spent some time trying to understand this part of a larger sentence:
あまりにも事実を報道しなさすぎる
Breakdown:
事実を報道する=reporting of facts
with verbs and adjectives, when you want to express an excessive degree, you simply attach 「すぎる（過ぎる)」 to the stem of the word. し is the stem of する. 事実を報道しすぎる = too much reporting of facts
あまりにも has the same function and can be used together with すぎる, も adds emphasis
あまりにも事実を報道しすぎる = too much reporting of facts
Negative なさ: あまりにも事実を報道しなさすぎる = too little reporting of facts
No.40714
>>39950>Interested in a Japanese minor?Yes, I am quite fond of them.
No.40771
Just finished learning hiragana a few nights ago, and it feels pretty darn good. I'd never, in a million years, thought I'd (successfully) learn a lick of Japanese; but one night about three weeks back, I decided to take learning hiragana seriously, and my brain actually didn't betray me for once. Every character I learned, I actually remembered. I started by limiting myself to 5 new characters a day, but that quickly fell through, since I'm too adhd ridden and depressed to do anything beneficial/productive consistently. But whenever I was in a good mood, I picked up where I left off and a few nights ago I figured I should just finish learning the rest of it while I was still in a decent mood, and I did. It honestly feels good, now I can read 1/3 of Japanese text I see in anime openings and various corners of the web. I've already made myself aware of a few particles, like how は is pronounced "wa" in most cases and つ is put inbetween characters to take some time before you pronounce the next character.
No.41525
>>38820how can i watch anime with both english and japanese subs?
No.41526
>>41525A lot of players allow for two subtitles at once. He is using mpv, but it requires some technical knowledge to implement any feature. I know Daum Potplayer does it without the need to do anything besides checking the option in the menu.
No.41528
>>41525https://www.languagereactor.com/video-fileYou give it a local video file and Japanese subs and it will machine translate each line and you can hover over words to see meaning.
No.41602
Nihongo wa totemo ozukshii (no Genki to Genki janai desu)
Ima mate kudasai! ;_;
No.42416
>>40541duolingo doesnt always use words in the right context, or misses the nuance of asian languages. it also doesnt really make transitive vs intransitive verb usage and their accompanying particles very clear, which is an important thing in a lot of other languages, but not that important in english. i would say maybe use it as an aide to a textbook, but not as the main tool.
明かりを消す - (somebody) turns off a light
明かりが消げる - a light turns off
おもちゃを壊す - (somebody) breaks a toy
おもちゃが壊れる - a toy breaks
there is a different verb and particle to use if the verb is transitive vs intransitive. duolingo hardly teaches that matter other than just throwing a bunch of verbs at you and hoping you notice the difference.
No.42516
>>42515I know about it, I like I find it cool like in the exemple yu-3 (3=san) and 'yume 2kki' (2=ni)
great exemple is pagers