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Many of us here inspire to live the hermit life in nature. I thought I would make a thread to discuss this worthy cause. This is a thread not to discuss the mere desire to live alone in a cabin in the woods, but to seriously discuss the possibilities, logistics, pros and cons, and the reality that would be living as such.
There's two ways i've seen it done outside of having an inheritance & that's either going full unabomber where you work for X number of years so you can buy land/food/taxes/etc. Second is by setting up some kind of passive income stream which can either be through bux or entrepreneurship.
That's just allowing the door to be opened mind you, the logistics of bringing modern creature comforts into the middle of nowhere is quite the undertaking even if you consider yourself rather "spartan".
That's just allowing the door to be opened mind you, the logistics of bringing modern creature comforts into the middle of nowhere is quite the undertaking even if you consider yourself rather "spartan".
I wish I could just have some part-time programming job. But no I need to get a residence permit in a country with forests, and all entry-level jobs are full-time socially intense torture
>>170007
>That's just allowing the door to be opened mind you, the logistics of bringing modern creature comforts into the middle of nowhere is quite the undertaking even if you consider yourself rather "spartan".
Well if you're thinking of doing this seriously as most of us in this thread might be, you don't care about the modern comforts. And many modern comforts can be duplicated in the middle of nowhere.
>>170008
Suffer wageslavery for a few years to buy land and construction materials. Alternatively, build a cheap shack or camp out in the woods. Nobody will find you if you're isolated enough.
>That's just allowing the door to be opened mind you, the logistics of bringing modern creature comforts into the middle of nowhere is quite the undertaking even if you consider yourself rather "spartan".
Well if you're thinking of doing this seriously as most of us in this thread might be, you don't care about the modern comforts. And many modern comforts can be duplicated in the middle of nowhere.
>>170008
Suffer wageslavery for a few years to buy land and construction materials. Alternatively, build a cheap shack or camp out in the woods. Nobody will find you if you're isolated enough.
File: 1593207210227.pdf (3.06 MB, LaMar Alexander - Simple S….pdf)
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>>170007
i think ted's way is the best,work your ass off till you are in 30s then retire in the woods
i think ted's way is the best,work your ass off till you are in 30s then retire in the woods
I don't actually want to be a hermit. I want to live as part of a community of people who just live off the land and reject consumerism. I found some guy with land who is trying to get people to join him to start such a thing and I'm considering joining.
>>170006
There was a group of people who supposedly went to live on a deserted island in the Pacific 10 years ago. No idea how it turned out though.
http://www.roadjunky.com/2112/purposely-marooned-8-westerners-go-to-live-forever-on-a-desert-island/
There was a group of people who supposedly went to live on a deserted island in the Pacific 10 years ago. No idea how it turned out though.
http://www.roadjunky.com/2112/purposely-marooned-8-westerners-go-to-live-forever-on-a-desert-island/
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how viable is hunting for money? I know a decent amount about firearms but pic related is all I got for now
>>170017
It's going to depend but generally not really at all, limited by season and permit costs, sometimes quotas you aren't allowed to exceed, and what can you do but sell the meat and skins, which other people are also trying to do or just don't need to buy from you and people in a lot of places frown in pelts and furs and the sort these days. Hunting is more viable as a direct food source than it is a source of currency.
It's going to depend but generally not really at all, limited by season and permit costs, sometimes quotas you aren't allowed to exceed, and what can you do but sell the meat and skins, which other people are also trying to do or just don't need to buy from you and people in a lot of places frown in pelts and furs and the sort these days. Hunting is more viable as a direct food source than it is a source of currency.
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>>170006
I figured someone would meantion this book by now. I recommend reading it if you are intressting in just disapearing in the woods for 30 years, just as the guy did in the book and it's based on a real life story.
I figured someone would meantion this book by now. I recommend reading it if you are intressting in just disapearing in the woods for 30 years, just as the guy did in the book and it's based on a real life story.
>>170023
just think of that as part of your FIRE neetdom time, actually males have evolved to be most economically productive from ages 30-50 (hunter gather success peaks in this range, as does male attractiveness in modern civilization, as men's status increases due to higher earnings from productivity peaking during this period)
just think of that as part of your FIRE neetdom time, actually males have evolved to be most economically productive from ages 30-50 (hunter gather success peaks in this range, as does male attractiveness in modern civilization, as men's status increases due to higher earnings from productivity peaking during this period)
>>170017
As far as I know it's illegal to sell game meat since the government can't regulate how the animal was raised and fed, so you'll have to do it through the black market. Which would probably involve in-person networking.
As far as I know it's illegal to sell game meat since the government can't regulate how the animal was raised and fed, so you'll have to do it through the black market. Which would probably involve in-person networking.
1. Who is going to build it? You
2. How much will it cost?
3. How will you keep up maintenance?
4. What are you gonna do for food and electricity?
5. Where about will this cabin be?
6. What will you do if you're in an emergency?
2. How much will it cost?
3. How will you keep up maintenance?
4. What are you gonna do for food and electricity?
5. Where about will this cabin be?
6. What will you do if you're in an emergency?
>>170042
Every once and a while I think about working hard and saving a modest amount of money to try my hand at building a small home cheaply, perhaps near a decent water source for fishing, then buying some solar panels and I'll live very frugally, finally away from society. but then I watch a foundation laying video on youtube and get tired.
Every once and a while I think about working hard and saving a modest amount of money to try my hand at building a small home cheaply, perhaps near a decent water source for fishing, then buying some solar panels and I'll live very frugally, finally away from society. but then I watch a foundation laying video on youtube and get tired.
>>170042
Making money to buy food is the most difficult and unpredictable part. Small towns tend to have no jobs. The rest is easy.
Making money to buy food is the most difficult and unpredictable part. Small towns tend to have no jobs. The rest is easy.
>>170044
Property taxes are still going to be a thing unless you squat or private land or federal land.
Property taxes are still going to be a thing unless you squat or private land or federal land.
>>170065
Property taxes are morally illegitimate and city workers are too cowardly to enforce them if you make it clear that you are willing to use force to defend yourself.
Property taxes are morally illegitimate and city workers are too cowardly to enforce them if you make it clear that you are willing to use force to defend yourself.
https://youtu.be/8B6xR3T37gI
Building underground is 100% the way to go, which also keeps the costs down. It also keeps you out of sight if you're going to be squatting, which keeps the costs down even further.
Building underground is 100% the way to go, which also keeps the costs down. It also keeps you out of sight if you're going to be squatting, which keeps the costs down even further.
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I would want my cabin to be Jap style. The small house in the picture cannot be bigger than 20' x 10'. But the ones with the irori (sunken hearth) in the middle are comfier. I think I would want one of those.
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>>170090
Do you mean something like this? It reminds me of the house in the Yojimbo movie. Would you also keep the other rooms similarly traditional like with those rolled up mat beds? It seems like a cool idea to me, it would pretty unique compared to cabins we are used to.
Do you live in a cold weather climate? I am not too read up on the subject but if you do maybe look at the kind of traditional houses that are from Hokkaido to find one that is better suited for the cold.
Do you mean something like this? It reminds me of the house in the Yojimbo movie. Would you also keep the other rooms similarly traditional like with those rolled up mat beds? It seems like a cool idea to me, it would pretty unique compared to cabins we are used to.
Do you live in a cold weather climate? I am not too read up on the subject but if you do maybe look at the kind of traditional houses that are from Hokkaido to find one that is better suited for the cold.
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>>170091
Yes, just like that. I would keep everything traditional as much as possible.
My other idea is to build a chapel like pic related, and live as an anchorite. This is much harder though, especially since I have very little building experience. But I will probably end up going this route.
Yes, just like that. I would keep everything traditional as much as possible.
My other idea is to build a chapel like pic related, and live as an anchorite. This is much harder though, especially since I have very little building experience. But I will probably end up going this route.
Boy, wouldn't I love to. I don't know how many times I watched that Breaking Bad episode where Walt hides in a cabin in New Hampshire. Looked cold but comfy as hell. Honestly the only reason why I wouldn't do it is because I'm scared to get a heart attack and die. Or get seriously injured or sick like that Into The Wild guy. At least in the city I might be able to call an ambulance, in a cabin so far from civilization you're pretty fucked, especially if you live alone. Also as some have already pointed out, you still have to pay taxes on it. A middle-ground solution would be to live in a trailer or tiny house on tiny patch of cheap land, in some places trailers/RVs aren't considered homes but just vehicles.
>>170111
If I remember correctly, they let it rise to the roof which is made out of straw. This dries out the roof and kills any insects that might have sneaked in.
If I remember correctly, they let it rise to the roof which is made out of straw. This dries out the roof and kills any insects that might have sneaked in.
>>170091
cooking on an open fire is bad for your health. At least use a gasifier if you want to cook with wood.
cooking on an open fire is bad for your health. At least use a gasifier if you want to cook with wood.
>>170165
im sure being alone in the wilderness, far removed from cities and their bullshit both physically and mentally compensates for that
im sure being alone in the wilderness, far removed from cities and their bullshit both physically and mentally compensates for that
If I had 15-50 thousand dollars I could make a totally liveable "home" in the woods assuming I brought extra muscle.
Still need money for food/taxes.
There's a lot of youtube channels featuring people living "off the grid" while still connected to the grid via the internet.
The boomers build some pretty epic shit not gonna lie and I would try to copy it for 3 times less.
Still need money for food/taxes.
There's a lot of youtube channels featuring people living "off the grid" while still connected to the grid via the internet.
The boomers build some pretty epic shit not gonna lie and I would try to copy it for 3 times less.
>>170091
Can you build one of these in europe or are they only in japan?
Which type of cabin is superior?
Can you build one of these in europe or are they only in japan?
Which type of cabin is superior?
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>>170258
I really like the aesthetic and comfy feeling of it all. Even the idea is sort of wizardly in itself, just living in a little offgrid self sustaining cabin while the world has gone to shit. I am not sure having too many windows is a good idea though, it might be more difficult to heat during winter.
I really like the aesthetic and comfy feeling of it all. Even the idea is sort of wizardly in itself, just living in a little offgrid self sustaining cabin while the world has gone to shit. I am not sure having too many windows is a good idea though, it might be more difficult to heat during winter.
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>>170273
is the camera shaky the entire length of the film? that sort of hurts my eyes for some reason
is the camera shaky the entire length of the film? that sort of hurts my eyes for some reason
>>170253
>Children of Men
I never understood the premise of that movie. The whole world just breaks apart into chaos because people don't have kids anymore?
>Children of Men
I never understood the premise of that movie. The whole world just breaks apart into chaos because people don't have kids anymore?
>>170278
It's interesting to compare it to YKK, which is a post-apocalyptic film where all the humans seem pretty happy not having kids anymore.
It's interesting to compare it to YKK, which is a post-apocalyptic film where all the humans seem pretty happy not having kids anymore.
>>170278
Well yeah, when faced with the eventual extinction of the human race, society breaks down.
Well yeah, when faced with the eventual extinction of the human race, society breaks down.
>>170283
Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me. Just because you can't have kids, things break down?
Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me. Just because you can't have kids, things break down?
>>170284
All it takes is enough depressed normalfags worldwide in our population of billions to think "fuck this the whole species is doomed anyway, so why the hell not just (x)?" and a chain reaction of chaos and breakdown begins. Imagine also if just a few crazy and powerful leaders think this way.
All it takes is enough depressed normalfags worldwide in our population of billions to think "fuck this the whole species is doomed anyway, so why the hell not just (x)?" and a chain reaction of chaos and breakdown begins. Imagine also if just a few crazy and powerful leaders think this way.
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>>170286
Then why don't people now think, "The heat death of the universe is coming/the Sun is going to destroy everything, so in the end, it's all hopeless anyways?" I understand one is on a much longer timescale, but it's still the same idea. Or if you want something on a smaller timescale, nukes, or global warming, or hell just take your pick. There's a lot of things that could start the nihilism train. Or how the hell do you explain the abject happiness of folks in the childfree groups? Or why doesn't society completely break apart now in places with subreplacement fertility rates?
The only nihilists I've ever encountered who degraded into wanton lawlessness are Final Fantasy villains.
Some other people are suggesting it's just normie/natalist thought–but whereas there are some other normie things I can at least sort of empathize with (jealousy, for example), I genuinely have incredible difficulty empathizing on this one (>>170285 pic related).
>>170281
That is pretty interesting.
Also, I've asked this question a lot. I've posted this as a separate thread here with no replies, I've asked this question elsewhere as well with no replies, and I'm kind of surprised that this is the first time I've ever gotten a reply. Makes me feel a little less insane, I guess.
Then why don't people now think, "The heat death of the universe is coming/the Sun is going to destroy everything, so in the end, it's all hopeless anyways?" I understand one is on a much longer timescale, but it's still the same idea. Or if you want something on a smaller timescale, nukes, or global warming, or hell just take your pick. There's a lot of things that could start the nihilism train. Or how the hell do you explain the abject happiness of folks in the childfree groups? Or why doesn't society completely break apart now in places with subreplacement fertility rates?
The only nihilists I've ever encountered who degraded into wanton lawlessness are Final Fantasy villains.
Some other people are suggesting it's just normie/natalist thought–but whereas there are some other normie things I can at least sort of empathize with (jealousy, for example), I genuinely have incredible difficulty empathizing on this one (>>170285 pic related).
>>170281
That is pretty interesting.
Also, I've asked this question a lot. I've posted this as a separate thread here with no replies, I've asked this question elsewhere as well with no replies, and I'm kind of surprised that this is the first time I've ever gotten a reply. Makes me feel a little less insane, I guess.
>>170286
Most people benefit from society, so that wouldn't happen. It'd be self defeating.
Most people benefit from society, so that wouldn't happen. It'd be self defeating.
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>>170290
>Most people benefit from society
Incorrect. Slavery is always harmful, even if it's comfortable. No man can be free when bound to a society.
>Most people benefit from society
Incorrect. Slavery is always harmful, even if it's comfortable. No man can be free when bound to a society.
Ayy fuck you guys I just wanted to talk about comfy cabins and you turned it into a sperg turd flinging war
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>>170295
Domestication.
Domestication.
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>>170309
Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou
Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou
The Primitive Tech channel on utube has some educational vids.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAL3JXZSzSm8AlZyD3nQdBA
If I were to venture into doing something like this I'd probably look to buy some forest land without any form of settlements as that tends to raise the price, I'd probably look for a larger area, 100+ acres with varied terrain, some more open areas, some hills, water definitely. Also, suitable longitude, I wouldn't want crazy cold winters but at the same time I don't want to be in some equatorial jungle. What are some land prices in your respective locations, for forests here they tend to calculate the price on the amount of available timber that's on the land. Seems the national average is $45/cubic metre, an old forest contains about 250+m3/hectare so if you average out that with some areas with younger trees and some denser etc you're probably looking at $5500 per acre.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAL3JXZSzSm8AlZyD3nQdBA
If I were to venture into doing something like this I'd probably look to buy some forest land without any form of settlements as that tends to raise the price, I'd probably look for a larger area, 100+ acres with varied terrain, some more open areas, some hills, water definitely. Also, suitable longitude, I wouldn't want crazy cold winters but at the same time I don't want to be in some equatorial jungle. What are some land prices in your respective locations, for forests here they tend to calculate the price on the amount of available timber that's on the land. Seems the national average is $45/cubic metre, an old forest contains about 250+m3/hectare so if you average out that with some areas with younger trees and some denser etc you're probably looking at $5500 per acre.
>>170036
Just naively thinking, what about spinning that idea further, for example living in an abandoned building in the middle of the woods near a river.
Assuming there would be an apartment complex or something large on that scale, and it was left alone for a very long time beforehand already, one could grow food, preserve water, aquire necessary tools for survival in a quite large area without drawing suspicion, and also be somewhat protected from the cold, right? I mean even keeping some animals like chickens and sheep could be possible. There needs to be done enough research beforehand, like what food to grow in what environment/when, how to aquire animals and keeping them healthy, etc. Also many problems would still come up, no way to handle health emergencies, aquiring things regularly like spices, oils, sugar (keeping bees?) etc., but in that case that would be luxury anyway, adding to that not sure what the odds are for such an old building to suddenly fall apart or getting visitors one day. Wondering how long one could survive in those conditions without stealing like the guy in the book though.
Just naively thinking, what about spinning that idea further, for example living in an abandoned building in the middle of the woods near a river.
Assuming there would be an apartment complex or something large on that scale, and it was left alone for a very long time beforehand already, one could grow food, preserve water, aquire necessary tools for survival in a quite large area without drawing suspicion, and also be somewhat protected from the cold, right? I mean even keeping some animals like chickens and sheep could be possible. There needs to be done enough research beforehand, like what food to grow in what environment/when, how to aquire animals and keeping them healthy, etc. Also many problems would still come up, no way to handle health emergencies, aquiring things regularly like spices, oils, sugar (keeping bees?) etc., but in that case that would be luxury anyway, adding to that not sure what the odds are for such an old building to suddenly fall apart or getting visitors one day. Wondering how long one could survive in those conditions without stealing like the guy in the book though.
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>>170310
If I could live in any fantasy setting it sure would be YKK.
A quiet, peaceful setting with almost no humans left,just driving around on my bike and appreciating the small things of this world around me.
If I could live in any fantasy setting it sure would be YKK.
A quiet, peaceful setting with almost no humans left,just driving around on my bike and appreciating the small things of this world around me.
>>170328
If it were that easy, why wouldn't tower blocks be filled of people doing this?
Unless you are super stealth, protect your livestock from junkies and can evade cops, this ain't happening
If it were that easy, why wouldn't tower blocks be filled of people doing this?
Unless you are super stealth, protect your livestock from junkies and can evade cops, this ain't happening
>>170036
Hermitary.com is a goldmine for these sort of folks
Also, "An Island to Oneself" about some guy called Tom Neale who lived the classic Robinson Crusoe life for a long time.
Hermitary.com is a goldmine for these sort of folks
Also, "An Island to Oneself" about some guy called Tom Neale who lived the classic Robinson Crusoe life for a long time.
>>170341
i've read in japan there exist the johatsu, a few thousand people that disappear without a trace yearly for whatever reasons, sure many may take on new identities elsewhere, commit suicide anyway, or become homeless, but as far as i know even the homeless in japan exist often in relatively small undisturbed communities.
There has also been talk in the last few years about many old run down houses in the middle of nowhere, that they sell for almost nothing, even to foreigners (on a few conditions), because too many old people in rural areas die without young relatives and leave too many properties to rot.
Who is to say that there are no old ruins left, or that the government has their eye on every peace of land country wide for every single moment, so I guess even if only for a little while it could be possible for few people at most to live in a small community far away while evading society at whole, also maybe junkies are not that big of a problem in japan (could be a retard and completely wrong in all of this of course), and that would be almost the same as going full blown homeless anyway.
And yeah even with very careful planning beforehand, one could still be busted anytime, especially if too much has already been invested in one place, so being super stealth is the way, there even have been stories of people who lived in some old grandma‘s house for a year without being noticed.
If the one guy can survive for 30 years+ in the woods near civilization without being noticed I guess everything is possible
i've read in japan there exist the johatsu, a few thousand people that disappear without a trace yearly for whatever reasons, sure many may take on new identities elsewhere, commit suicide anyway, or become homeless, but as far as i know even the homeless in japan exist often in relatively small undisturbed communities.
There has also been talk in the last few years about many old run down houses in the middle of nowhere, that they sell for almost nothing, even to foreigners (on a few conditions), because too many old people in rural areas die without young relatives and leave too many properties to rot.
Who is to say that there are no old ruins left, or that the government has their eye on every peace of land country wide for every single moment, so I guess even if only for a little while it could be possible for few people at most to live in a small community far away while evading society at whole, also maybe junkies are not that big of a problem in japan (could be a retard and completely wrong in all of this of course), and that would be almost the same as going full blown homeless anyway.
And yeah even with very careful planning beforehand, one could still be busted anytime, especially if too much has already been invested in one place, so being super stealth is the way, there even have been stories of people who lived in some old grandma‘s house for a year without being noticed.
If the one guy can survive for 30 years+ in the woods near civilization without being noticed I guess everything is possible
I live on a property that has one secluded house sitting empty, last person who lived in it, some superhuman named Fritz, moved out in the 60's. I love that house, the surroundings and I would feel deeply violated if some random fag decided to start living in it.
>>170329
which is why getting turned into an imbred smashed faced pug is a fitting punishment ya barnacle head
which is why getting turned into an imbred smashed faced pug is a fitting punishment ya barnacle head
>>170206
I am not sure if you could in either due to how small the forested parts are in Western Europe or Japan. But I know if you built a tiny home in one of the mountains in Japan you may go unfounded since they lose hundreds of people there yearly.
I am not sure if you could in either due to how small the forested parts are in Western Europe or Japan. But I know if you built a tiny home in one of the mountains in Japan you may go unfounded since they lose hundreds of people there yearly.
If i was going to Immigrantmaxx and hide innawods, should i go to Japan or Rural USA? (I'm in England, there are no forests left here to hide in, no mountains to provide coverage)
>>170743
>should I go to the huge country with easier immigration laws or the small country with tight immigration laws
real headscratcher
>should I go to the huge country with easier immigration laws or the small country with tight immigration laws
real headscratcher
>>170745
i've got a passport concavebrain, so it doesn't matter if there are mountains and forests, i can go anywhere
i've got a passport concavebrain, so it doesn't matter if there are mountains and forests, i can go anywhere
>>170743
Come to the US. You can't survive innawoods in Japan because you'll stick out as a gaijin. In America if you get stopped as long as you aren't doing anything illegal you can pretend to be an American hobo with no ID.
Come to the US. You can't survive innawoods in Japan because you'll stick out as a gaijin. In America if you get stopped as long as you aren't doing anything illegal you can pretend to be an American hobo with no ID.
It has been a fantasy of mine to live completely off grid in the wilderness for awhile now. I envisioned myself living in my own little cabin that was built by myself, I'd get all food myself, and just survive out there…
Well for several months now, while at home I haven't been wearing any clothes except my underwear. In the beginning I'd shiver even when it was "comfortable" temperature(s), but as time has gone on I guess I have got cold adapted… because now even when it's actually cold… I don't usually shiver.
I tried sleeping naked and without any bedding sheets whatsoever, but found it very difficult to sleep. The temperatures were single digit (celsius), it was actually a very uncomfortable experience. I'd fall asleep for about 40 minutes, but then wake up. In total I'd get maybe 2 hours of sleep per night, and then at 3-4 am, I'd be really cold and miserable. I did this for 4-5 days before giving up due to the sleep deprivation and went back to sleeping with bedding (still naked).
Going back to my fantasy of living in the wilderness, it made me wonder how I would manage when it gets to minus 20, 30, or even 40 degrees celsius… I don't have any experience with those temperatures. Are layered clothes and tent enough to make you internally feel comfortable? Because if not, I guess there goes my fantasy of living off the land in the north…
Well for several months now, while at home I haven't been wearing any clothes except my underwear. In the beginning I'd shiver even when it was "comfortable" temperature(s), but as time has gone on I guess I have got cold adapted… because now even when it's actually cold… I don't usually shiver.
I tried sleeping naked and without any bedding sheets whatsoever, but found it very difficult to sleep. The temperatures were single digit (celsius), it was actually a very uncomfortable experience. I'd fall asleep for about 40 minutes, but then wake up. In total I'd get maybe 2 hours of sleep per night, and then at 3-4 am, I'd be really cold and miserable. I did this for 4-5 days before giving up due to the sleep deprivation and went back to sleeping with bedding (still naked).
Going back to my fantasy of living in the wilderness, it made me wonder how I would manage when it gets to minus 20, 30, or even 40 degrees celsius… I don't have any experience with those temperatures. Are layered clothes and tent enough to make you internally feel comfortable? Because if not, I guess there goes my fantasy of living off the land in the north…
>>170767
Recall reading some book from a south pole expedition, they pulled it off but had several people sleeping in the same tent so not sure how it goes for one guy when it gets really cold. Some sort of fireplace is probably to recommend. Snow is a great insulator and a thick forest may be 10 degrees warmer than a flat area
Recall reading some book from a south pole expedition, they pulled it off but had several people sleeping in the same tent so not sure how it goes for one guy when it gets really cold. Some sort of fireplace is probably to recommend. Snow is a great insulator and a thick forest may be 10 degrees warmer than a flat area
>>170767
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Thomas_Knight
This guy did pretty much exactly that for many years without ever having a camp fire. I read a book about him, it sounded extremely unpleasant.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Thomas_Knight
This guy did pretty much exactly that for many years without ever having a camp fire. I read a book about him, it sounded extremely unpleasant.
Here in Brazil the forest is merciless: too many venomous snakes and spiders, jaguars, pumas, dengue fever, yellow fever, malaria, Chagas's disease and more. Only people with some serious training and knowledge survive in the Amazon rainforest or Atlantic forest.
I've been doing forestry work. It made me realize that there is a lot of activity going on in these "supposedly remote" locations that makes hiding a cabin a difficult endeavor.
I would check the land permits of the area. You want to end up in a stand of trees that was recent logged and past the regen phase- about 20 years old. I would be very careful not to set up around rotted trees or alder, in a windstorm your cabin could easily get rekt by blowdown from these.
The real problem is you can't hide your car. If you're not using a car you're probably not far from civilization. Good option is to truck in the foodstuffs by canoe. Living away from society for an extended period requiring secrecy is just risky all around. This is a way of life better suited to transients. If memory serves squatting on land for 4 years in Canada gives you legal status
other ways of getting cheap cabin permits include trapping and prospecting licenses. They'll let you put one up during your rental period. The downside is you have to trap X number of pelts every year for the trapline and probably similar for prospecting
I would check the land permits of the area. You want to end up in a stand of trees that was recent logged and past the regen phase- about 20 years old. I would be very careful not to set up around rotted trees or alder, in a windstorm your cabin could easily get rekt by blowdown from these.
The real problem is you can't hide your car. If you're not using a car you're probably not far from civilization. Good option is to truck in the foodstuffs by canoe. Living away from society for an extended period requiring secrecy is just risky all around. This is a way of life better suited to transients. If memory serves squatting on land for 4 years in Canada gives you legal status
other ways of getting cheap cabin permits include trapping and prospecting licenses. They'll let you put one up during your rental period. The downside is you have to trap X number of pelts every year for the trapline and probably similar for prospecting
>>171770
What do you mean a lot of activity in remote places, like other homeless or hikers or what?
What do you mean a lot of activity in remote places, like other homeless or hikers or what?
Bump. Where would one obtain practical knowledge in this matter? (agriculture, building, etc)
>>174661
Most of it will be common knowledge, you need to learn how to make fires, and how to assemble shelter quickly and how to hunt. Food/water, shelter, clothing and fire are keystones
Most of it will be common knowledge, you need to learn how to make fires, and how to assemble shelter quickly and how to hunt. Food/water, shelter, clothing and fire are keystones
>>174661
If you can check out homesteading magazines, blogs, and books.
They are densely packed with exactly the info you are looking for.
Also homesteading related youtube channels tend to have alright information too.
If you can check out homesteading magazines, blogs, and books.
They are densely packed with exactly the info you are looking for.
Also homesteading related youtube channels tend to have alright information too.
File: 1607652649538.jpg (700.61 KB, 2448x1824, 51:38, uncomplete.jpg) ImgOps iqdb
It's harder than people realize, but I think it's particularly hard for people who have grown accustom to a first world living standard and the creature comforts of a modern life. It's even harder for unproductive people like myself and I'm sure many other people on this site.
I attempted an easier version of something like this and ended up failing miserably at it for a variety of reasons. I used to be pretty well functioning, but I wanted to get away from the world so in my early 20s I lived in a rundown apartment while I saved most of the money I earned from a menial night shift job and when I had enough to buy a small piece of isolated forested land, I move across country back to my mother's home and started searching. This is where I accidentally created enough rope to hang myself and created my current pathetic situation. It took almost a year to find something I could afford that wasn't three plus hours away, in case at any point I needed job and to commute back and forth to the city each day. I ended up finding around four acres of land for a little less than 12k Canadian, this is in an area that doesn't see a lot of immigrants so the housing/land prices aren't yet extremely high. A winter passed and I started work on clearing trees with a chainsaw so I could put in a driveway, during this process I felled a tree on a bare wire high power line by mistake and came extremely close to accidentally killing myself via electrocution but somehow the tree branches never connected the top wire from the bottom and sent 11 kV flowing into me. I hired a local excavation company to put in a dirt driveway and without my permission they put in crushed rock because they thought the land was too wet and it more than doubled the price. For what I got the price was fair so I sheepishly paid them but it took a lot of the money that was set aside for other things.
Another winter passed, while I did nothing at my mother's home and wasted away. I would go out less frequently and started becoming more withdrawn. I wanted temporary power on site but the power company wanted to charge me at least 1k to break the bedrock open for the power pole so I decided against it with the belief I could do solar panels/batteries instead. The municipality gave me two options for what I could legally build on the land, a seasonal uninsulated cabin with no water, no wired power, and no sewage system, or basically a house with a septic system and well. This is where I fucked up, I thought I could do the latter option on a reasonable budget since the building would only be 24'x14'. I'm a fairly industrious person but trying to build something like this legally when there are thousands of pages of regulations, if you can find them in the first place, is a nightmare and it slowed progress down to a crawl. They wouldn't allow me to put in a septic system myself, dig a well, put in solar panels, put in a mandatory air exchanger, or do any type of electrical or plumbing. This was the straw that broke the camel's back as the project cost would have been more than I could afford and after years I had nothing to show but tens of thousands of dollars wasted, a crushed rock driveway and a gravel pad.
Some time later and more in line with the theme of the thread, I ended up putting a small 16'x'8 building on the site. For some reason I can't find a photo of it finished on my computer but this is from when I was building it, before I put the shingles on and finished the trim. I built it as a shed because I didn't want to deal with any regulations but it doubles as a stealth cabin. I guess the difference between a shed and a cabin is more windows, which I could always add later. The inside is pretty much completely bare with no interior cladding. It took me about two brutal weeks working 10-12 hour days to get most of it done, but it's all hand nailed so it could have been done quicker. Maybe about another week for miscellaneous work. Total cost was around 3k as I recall.
Now this leads me to the point of all this and why I'm still at my mother's house and not living on the property. It's very difficult to live in that way. I could probably do it if I was force to but I grew so accustom to my living situation that I couldn't break free of it and over time I grew to be needed here which makes it hard to leave. It's hard to summarize it without seeming like a giant useless pussy but unless you have a good set up it's not much different from being homeless, worse in some sense because most homeless have access to things you wouldn't. In my case I was constantly being eaten by mosquitoes and black flies outside. No running water. No source of water, it had to be brought in off site which is especially troublesome in the winter. The bathroom was a 5 gallon bucket outside that I put sawdust into. No shower, just cold wet paper towels. No real way to store perishable food as I didn't want to keep bringing in ice for my cooler. No constant source of power, just a extremely loud generator mostly used for powering tools. No internet besides expensive mobile data. Heating it was hard because it's uninsulated. The list goes on. This was only my situation and it could have been improved but generally it will be much less comfortable than you imagine.
My advice for people who still want to go down a similar path is if you can afford it, buy a place that already exists and has utilities. A rural cottage beats a shack in the middle of nowhere. It doesn't matter if it's rundown, living in a place with power, running water, and a sewage system will be much more comfortable than trying to build something yourself and you can always fix it up later. Nothing is stopping you from going camping in the wilderness before going back to your home. Part of what killed it for me is that living like that still isn't cheap, the annual cost of me owning a car in order to get out to the site is nearly the same cost of renting a cheap room somewhere. If you can avoid that expense, it obviously becomes much cheaper but that requires a real shipping address or living close enough to a town you can get to on foot or by bike.
Another thing is that you can pretty much forget living off the land. I have some experience with growing my own food and some experience with gathering it, getting enough calories to be independent of the grocery store is very hard without industrial farming and even people that own homestead properties designed for this purpose often end up getting a lot of their food from the store. Trying to do it in the middle of the woods without poaching or unlimited hunting permits would be a nightmare. Even then, people highly underestimate just how many animals they would have to kill to feed themselves. Take for example a mule deer which has an average boneless meat yield of around 50 pounds, you would need 3.5 pounds of meat a day to get 2500 calories, one mule deer would only last you 14 days, so you would need to shoot and kill 25 of them a year if you had no other source of food. Having a vegetable garden is a entirely different thing from managing an acre or so of grains or high calorie vegetables. Most wooded land is unproductive for grazing and if brought in animals by the time you account for the expense of their shelter, fencing, and feed you would pay a similar amount of money than if you would have just bought food from the store.
I attempted an easier version of something like this and ended up failing miserably at it for a variety of reasons. I used to be pretty well functioning, but I wanted to get away from the world so in my early 20s I lived in a rundown apartment while I saved most of the money I earned from a menial night shift job and when I had enough to buy a small piece of isolated forested land, I move across country back to my mother's home and started searching. This is where I accidentally created enough rope to hang myself and created my current pathetic situation. It took almost a year to find something I could afford that wasn't three plus hours away, in case at any point I needed job and to commute back and forth to the city each day. I ended up finding around four acres of land for a little less than 12k Canadian, this is in an area that doesn't see a lot of immigrants so the housing/land prices aren't yet extremely high. A winter passed and I started work on clearing trees with a chainsaw so I could put in a driveway, during this process I felled a tree on a bare wire high power line by mistake and came extremely close to accidentally killing myself via electrocution but somehow the tree branches never connected the top wire from the bottom and sent 11 kV flowing into me. I hired a local excavation company to put in a dirt driveway and without my permission they put in crushed rock because they thought the land was too wet and it more than doubled the price. For what I got the price was fair so I sheepishly paid them but it took a lot of the money that was set aside for other things.
Another winter passed, while I did nothing at my mother's home and wasted away. I would go out less frequently and started becoming more withdrawn. I wanted temporary power on site but the power company wanted to charge me at least 1k to break the bedrock open for the power pole so I decided against it with the belief I could do solar panels/batteries instead. The municipality gave me two options for what I could legally build on the land, a seasonal uninsulated cabin with no water, no wired power, and no sewage system, or basically a house with a septic system and well. This is where I fucked up, I thought I could do the latter option on a reasonable budget since the building would only be 24'x14'. I'm a fairly industrious person but trying to build something like this legally when there are thousands of pages of regulations, if you can find them in the first place, is a nightmare and it slowed progress down to a crawl. They wouldn't allow me to put in a septic system myself, dig a well, put in solar panels, put in a mandatory air exchanger, or do any type of electrical or plumbing. This was the straw that broke the camel's back as the project cost would have been more than I could afford and after years I had nothing to show but tens of thousands of dollars wasted, a crushed rock driveway and a gravel pad.
Some time later and more in line with the theme of the thread, I ended up putting a small 16'x'8 building on the site. For some reason I can't find a photo of it finished on my computer but this is from when I was building it, before I put the shingles on and finished the trim. I built it as a shed because I didn't want to deal with any regulations but it doubles as a stealth cabin. I guess the difference between a shed and a cabin is more windows, which I could always add later. The inside is pretty much completely bare with no interior cladding. It took me about two brutal weeks working 10-12 hour days to get most of it done, but it's all hand nailed so it could have been done quicker. Maybe about another week for miscellaneous work. Total cost was around 3k as I recall.
Now this leads me to the point of all this and why I'm still at my mother's house and not living on the property. It's very difficult to live in that way. I could probably do it if I was force to but I grew so accustom to my living situation that I couldn't break free of it and over time I grew to be needed here which makes it hard to leave. It's hard to summarize it without seeming like a giant useless pussy but unless you have a good set up it's not much different from being homeless, worse in some sense because most homeless have access to things you wouldn't. In my case I was constantly being eaten by mosquitoes and black flies outside. No running water. No source of water, it had to be brought in off site which is especially troublesome in the winter. The bathroom was a 5 gallon bucket outside that I put sawdust into. No shower, just cold wet paper towels. No real way to store perishable food as I didn't want to keep bringing in ice for my cooler. No constant source of power, just a extremely loud generator mostly used for powering tools. No internet besides expensive mobile data. Heating it was hard because it's uninsulated. The list goes on. This was only my situation and it could have been improved but generally it will be much less comfortable than you imagine.
My advice for people who still want to go down a similar path is if you can afford it, buy a place that already exists and has utilities. A rural cottage beats a shack in the middle of nowhere. It doesn't matter if it's rundown, living in a place with power, running water, and a sewage system will be much more comfortable than trying to build something yourself and you can always fix it up later. Nothing is stopping you from going camping in the wilderness before going back to your home. Part of what killed it for me is that living like that still isn't cheap, the annual cost of me owning a car in order to get out to the site is nearly the same cost of renting a cheap room somewhere. If you can avoid that expense, it obviously becomes much cheaper but that requires a real shipping address or living close enough to a town you can get to on foot or by bike.
Another thing is that you can pretty much forget living off the land. I have some experience with growing my own food and some experience with gathering it, getting enough calories to be independent of the grocery store is very hard without industrial farming and even people that own homestead properties designed for this purpose often end up getting a lot of their food from the store. Trying to do it in the middle of the woods without poaching or unlimited hunting permits would be a nightmare. Even then, people highly underestimate just how many animals they would have to kill to feed themselves. Take for example a mule deer which has an average boneless meat yield of around 50 pounds, you would need 3.5 pounds of meat a day to get 2500 calories, one mule deer would only last you 14 days, so you would need to shoot and kill 25 of them a year if you had no other source of food. Having a vegetable garden is a entirely different thing from managing an acre or so of grains or high calorie vegetables. Most wooded land is unproductive for grazing and if brought in animals by the time you account for the expense of their shelter, fencing, and feed you would pay a similar amount of money than if you would have just bought food from the store.
>>174984
You would need to do it in some place where there aren't any gay regulations and just do literally everything yourself either that or do an illegal build. If you build a house illegally and are discovered you are only out the price of the materials. Composting toilet, rainwater collection, solar hot water heater, simple solar setup. Build with very cheap materials like earth and you could do it for probably $5k.
You would need to do it in some place where there aren't any gay regulations and just do literally everything yourself either that or do an illegal build. If you build a house illegally and are discovered you are only out the price of the materials. Composting toilet, rainwater collection, solar hot water heater, simple solar setup. Build with very cheap materials like earth and you could do it for probably $5k.
>>174984
Nice write up. It's cool that you got that far in your cabin dream anyways. Regulation and red tape are so insane that you basically have to sub everything out, which means insurances costs, middle men, office leeches, accountants, everything just adding to the final cost to fuck you in the ass. Although I think you should have made a cabin next to clean water source like a river if you could. At least then you wouldn't have to pipe that in.
It's not being a pussy to complain about real innawoods. The flies and mosquitoes are the worst problem of innawoods living, even just the fucking noise they make is unbearable sometimes. Where about in Canada are you located? I'm here in chongcouver, and I can't even be fucked to go hiking or camping in the summer with all the fucking flies everywhere.
As for your remarks on leaving society behind, yes it's extremely difficult to escape society at this point. As a modern urbanite you require the easiest and most accessible living areas possible, since you lack the skills, mindset, toughness, and knowledge of the primitive man. The problem is that the comfy easy places to live are already swallowed up by the hordes of society.
The only way I can see a modern man living in the wild alone is if you have an untouched river or lake with endless supplies of fish year round. That way if you ever make a mistake like messing up a crop or failure to hunt, you won't just fucking die. Even with that, it would take a few years of practice before you could actually live there with almost no returning back to society. However in the long term you require new clothes, guns, bullets, and metal tools. So you still have to have some sort of income, or enough wealth to supply yourself through inflation over many, many years.
I think the modern man would be most suitable in an agriculture setting rather than innawoods, but as you already point out all the decent land is taken or requires modern agriculture techniques to produce from. Society and modern technology are a curse for anyone who holds freedom as an ideal state. You were born into slavery, and will probably die in slavery regardless of the wealth you accrue.
Nice write up. It's cool that you got that far in your cabin dream anyways. Regulation and red tape are so insane that you basically have to sub everything out, which means insurances costs, middle men, office leeches, accountants, everything just adding to the final cost to fuck you in the ass. Although I think you should have made a cabin next to clean water source like a river if you could. At least then you wouldn't have to pipe that in.
It's not being a pussy to complain about real innawoods. The flies and mosquitoes are the worst problem of innawoods living, even just the fucking noise they make is unbearable sometimes. Where about in Canada are you located? I'm here in chongcouver, and I can't even be fucked to go hiking or camping in the summer with all the fucking flies everywhere.
As for your remarks on leaving society behind, yes it's extremely difficult to escape society at this point. As a modern urbanite you require the easiest and most accessible living areas possible, since you lack the skills, mindset, toughness, and knowledge of the primitive man. The problem is that the comfy easy places to live are already swallowed up by the hordes of society.
The only way I can see a modern man living in the wild alone is if you have an untouched river or lake with endless supplies of fish year round. That way if you ever make a mistake like messing up a crop or failure to hunt, you won't just fucking die. Even with that, it would take a few years of practice before you could actually live there with almost no returning back to society. However in the long term you require new clothes, guns, bullets, and metal tools. So you still have to have some sort of income, or enough wealth to supply yourself through inflation over many, many years.
I think the modern man would be most suitable in an agriculture setting rather than innawoods, but as you already point out all the decent land is taken or requires modern agriculture techniques to produce from. Society and modern technology are a curse for anyone who holds freedom as an ideal state. You were born into slavery, and will probably die in slavery regardless of the wealth you accrue.
>>174984
great post. just some random thoughts: consider planting berry bushes on your property. many of them grow very quickly, produce a ton of fruit, and require zero effort on your part. i have beach strawberries on my property and they taste awesome and just grow everywhere relentlessly. consider the inclusion of a way to catch rainwater for bathing or even growing more food. also, i've heard good things about these gas powered mosquito catching machines so maybe look into those if you haven't already.
great post. just some random thoughts: consider planting berry bushes on your property. many of them grow very quickly, produce a ton of fruit, and require zero effort on your part. i have beach strawberries on my property and they taste awesome and just grow everywhere relentlessly. consider the inclusion of a way to catch rainwater for bathing or even growing more food. also, i've heard good things about these gas powered mosquito catching machines so maybe look into those if you haven't already.
>>174984
Damn that's bullshit with the regulations. It seems like you've got to find somewhere where the laws are favorable to homesteading/off-grid living, and make sure the land has the basics you need like accessible water source and useable soil without huge development costs. There's places where they don't care much what you do on your property especially if building only small structures. My plan would be standard idea of build a cheap log cabin with my property's wood or something simple with bought lumber, heat it with woodstove, get water from a shallow dug well or spring and rainwater, grow beans and potatoes, veggies and fruit/nut trees, berry bushes or whatever else might be cost-efficient, build root cellar to store food and seed, use composting toilet for sewage. Then have a remote job or something part-time in some nearby town or farms to cover any cash needs, car bills, and extra food. The ideal would be some kind of compromise between a cabin innawoods and farmhouse with utilities like you said. Maybe hooked up to power and internet but taking care of your own heat, water, and sewage needs. I want to believe this is possible, but I'm not sure how to make it economical, something that could allow you to minimize cash needs while still offering decent comfort.
This old Great Depression booklet deals with a lot of this. It makes the case you can cut some expenses and dependence on society by making a homestead and growing some of your own food, I don't know how true that is in modern times. The cost of decent land has gone up too much.
https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/ORC00000469/PDF
Damn that's bullshit with the regulations. It seems like you've got to find somewhere where the laws are favorable to homesteading/off-grid living, and make sure the land has the basics you need like accessible water source and useable soil without huge development costs. There's places where they don't care much what you do on your property especially if building only small structures. My plan would be standard idea of build a cheap log cabin with my property's wood or something simple with bought lumber, heat it with woodstove, get water from a shallow dug well or spring and rainwater, grow beans and potatoes, veggies and fruit/nut trees, berry bushes or whatever else might be cost-efficient, build root cellar to store food and seed, use composting toilet for sewage. Then have a remote job or something part-time in some nearby town or farms to cover any cash needs, car bills, and extra food. The ideal would be some kind of compromise between a cabin innawoods and farmhouse with utilities like you said. Maybe hooked up to power and internet but taking care of your own heat, water, and sewage needs. I want to believe this is possible, but I'm not sure how to make it economical, something that could allow you to minimize cash needs while still offering decent comfort.
This old Great Depression booklet deals with a lot of this. It makes the case you can cut some expenses and dependence on society by making a homestead and growing some of your own food, I don't know how true that is in modern times. The cost of decent land has gone up too much.
https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/ORC00000469/PDF
>>174992
I appreciate your thoughts. I'm in Nova Scotia but the land is in the less populated interior of the province so it's still pretty isolated and there is a fair amount of crown land for me to explore. I do regret sounding so dismissive of people attempting to do something like this in my last post, I'm just weary of people assuming it's such a viable alternative for them in case their parents kick them out or they decide they don't want to work their job anymore. It's like a fantasy they keep in the back pocket to avoid acknowledging that they're up against a wall. Often times these are people struggling to take care of themselves in their modern life, let alone suddenly become some type of survivalist living out of a cabin they built by hand while they hunt and fish all their food. I think it's important for them to try to figure out why they're interested in the idea in the first place. My advice for them would be, do you really want to spend hours of your day performing the same menial tasks to ensure basic survival in very tough living conditions or do you just want to get away from people and have a low living expense? If you just want to get away from people, it means buying most of your food supply and trying to maximize your comfort because it's still going to be pretty difficult unless you have a pile of money to buy an off-grid home. If you jump into it and you have no other alternatives, there's a very real possibility that you get in over your head and end up killing yourself. Instead it should be treated like exposure therapy, spend a day in the forest and go back to your home, then stay overnight, then stay a few nights, then stay a week and so on. Not only are you developing the necessary skills, you're confirming that this is something you're interested in and capable of. It's still possible to adapt to tough living conditions with great effort, we’re not genetically much different than our ancestors, just very far removed from them.
I believe most people here would be fairly normal if they were born into a primitive tribe or an early agrarian society and we wouldn't feel as much as a need to get away or as oppressed. It seems we develop in situations where survival is relatively easy but finding meaning is hard. Societal cohesion grew to be obsolete, there isn't that much point to maintaining relationships with other people and one can become sensitive to the harm of them or just the theatre of it all. However I don't really believe that true freedom has ever existed, just various degrees of slavery. In some sense nature is a worse slaver than society because of the sheer workload just to maintain survival and the brutality of it all. Minimizing the harm of both is all we can look for, which is where I differ from the anarcho-primitivists. The animals fighting each other tooth and nail for survival never appeared to me to be content.
>>174985
> in some place where there aren't any gay regulations
Those places are increasingly hard to find as more and more local governments are choosing to adopt a federal building code or so called international building code. This pretty much eliminates everything besides traditional housing unless you have an engineer sign off on it. If these are the only regulations you have to deal with, it's hard but not impossible to build something yourself but they often add a bunch of other bullshit on top like minimum square footage laws or just make the permitting process prohibitively expensive. As far as I know, the only areas that don't really have this are some unincorporated areas, basically areas that don't have a local government, but that's only if they haven't given jurisdiction of regulations over to the next county/municipality or created their own district board for oversight.
Regarding just doing it illegally, on one hand the rising homeless population and the people lobbying around them have made officials less likely to disrupt homeless encampments but on the other hand better satellite imagery and scanning software have made it easier for the government to find illegal buildings. I think any permanent structure you could realistically build wouldn't have many advantages over a movable structure and that way you can avoid losing the money you put into it. You of course have all the structures on wheels so vans, campers, tinyhouses, or cargo trailers, but you would need to find an area off road that wouldn't have anyone poking around or put it on land you own or rent. If that isn't possible, you have yurts, although they can get really expensive, wall tents, or you could make a building that can be disassembled and loaded on the back of a trailer. They would be hard to move into place but it could be divided into floor, wall, and roof sections that are then screwed together and as a bonus you could build them elsewhere before bringing them onto the site. Wall tents are probably the best option if the site is located far from roads because they pack well and are reasonably cheap. I built one for less than a hundred dollars before by purchasing a fire retardant and waterproof canvas tent section from a military surplus store, cutting it into pieces and sewing it into wall tent using a sewing awl and heavyduty wax thread.
I appreciate your thoughts. I'm in Nova Scotia but the land is in the less populated interior of the province so it's still pretty isolated and there is a fair amount of crown land for me to explore. I do regret sounding so dismissive of people attempting to do something like this in my last post, I'm just weary of people assuming it's such a viable alternative for them in case their parents kick them out or they decide they don't want to work their job anymore. It's like a fantasy they keep in the back pocket to avoid acknowledging that they're up against a wall. Often times these are people struggling to take care of themselves in their modern life, let alone suddenly become some type of survivalist living out of a cabin they built by hand while they hunt and fish all their food. I think it's important for them to try to figure out why they're interested in the idea in the first place. My advice for them would be, do you really want to spend hours of your day performing the same menial tasks to ensure basic survival in very tough living conditions or do you just want to get away from people and have a low living expense? If you just want to get away from people, it means buying most of your food supply and trying to maximize your comfort because it's still going to be pretty difficult unless you have a pile of money to buy an off-grid home. If you jump into it and you have no other alternatives, there's a very real possibility that you get in over your head and end up killing yourself. Instead it should be treated like exposure therapy, spend a day in the forest and go back to your home, then stay overnight, then stay a few nights, then stay a week and so on. Not only are you developing the necessary skills, you're confirming that this is something you're interested in and capable of. It's still possible to adapt to tough living conditions with great effort, we’re not genetically much different than our ancestors, just very far removed from them.
I believe most people here would be fairly normal if they were born into a primitive tribe or an early agrarian society and we wouldn't feel as much as a need to get away or as oppressed. It seems we develop in situations where survival is relatively easy but finding meaning is hard. Societal cohesion grew to be obsolete, there isn't that much point to maintaining relationships with other people and one can become sensitive to the harm of them or just the theatre of it all. However I don't really believe that true freedom has ever existed, just various degrees of slavery. In some sense nature is a worse slaver than society because of the sheer workload just to maintain survival and the brutality of it all. Minimizing the harm of both is all we can look for, which is where I differ from the anarcho-primitivists. The animals fighting each other tooth and nail for survival never appeared to me to be content.
>>174985
> in some place where there aren't any gay regulations
Those places are increasingly hard to find as more and more local governments are choosing to adopt a federal building code or so called international building code. This pretty much eliminates everything besides traditional housing unless you have an engineer sign off on it. If these are the only regulations you have to deal with, it's hard but not impossible to build something yourself but they often add a bunch of other bullshit on top like minimum square footage laws or just make the permitting process prohibitively expensive. As far as I know, the only areas that don't really have this are some unincorporated areas, basically areas that don't have a local government, but that's only if they haven't given jurisdiction of regulations over to the next county/municipality or created their own district board for oversight.
Regarding just doing it illegally, on one hand the rising homeless population and the people lobbying around them have made officials less likely to disrupt homeless encampments but on the other hand better satellite imagery and scanning software have made it easier for the government to find illegal buildings. I think any permanent structure you could realistically build wouldn't have many advantages over a movable structure and that way you can avoid losing the money you put into it. You of course have all the structures on wheels so vans, campers, tinyhouses, or cargo trailers, but you would need to find an area off road that wouldn't have anyone poking around or put it on land you own or rent. If that isn't possible, you have yurts, although they can get really expensive, wall tents, or you could make a building that can be disassembled and loaded on the back of a trailer. They would be hard to move into place but it could be divided into floor, wall, and roof sections that are then screwed together and as a bonus you could build them elsewhere before bringing them onto the site. Wall tents are probably the best option if the site is located far from roads because they pack well and are reasonably cheap. I built one for less than a hundred dollars before by purchasing a fire retardant and waterproof canvas tent section from a military surplus store, cutting it into pieces and sewing it into wall tent using a sewing awl and heavyduty wax thread.
>>175003
>I want to believe this is possible, but I'm not sure how to make it economical
I think you're right to make that the key consideration. The moment you have any type of real expense is the moment you need income and then it becomes a question of why you would need to produce all your own food, regardless of if it's technically feasible in your situation. Even if your housing expenditure is next to nothing, you probably need to have money for clothes, tools, equipment, and such at a bare minimum. Then you have things you probably want to have like transportation, books, electronics, a cellphone, internet. Internet is a big one, luckily we have Starlink now so it should be soon available at most remote locations but it's still like $100 a month. If you have to come up with money for these expenses, getting most of your food from the store won't be that much more. This is very convoluted way of me saying you shouldn't get caught up on the homesteading idea unless it's something you truly enjoy. Supplementing is one thing but unless you devote a ton of effort to it you're not going to save that much and the expense of homesteading can negate a lot of savings. I also should point out that a lot of the alternative living situations have a similar expense so you don't have to get hung up on living in a cabin unless you would prefer it.
>Then have a remote job or something part-time in some nearby tow
It's now easier to get a remote job than ever before, this is the route I would probably try to go in your situation if you didn't already have a high paying job where you could quickly build up savings/investments to live off of. I would avoid relying on intermittent part-time jobs if you can and make hay while the sun shines. Unfortunately automation may greatly affect your ability to work in the future so I think ideally you should try to build up some investment income to fall back upon. If you were fully invested in the equity market under good conditions, you could withdraw as much as 8% a year on average without digging into your capital or suffering from inflation. Just something to consider, it would take a lot of work but with such low expenses you would basically be set for life. That is at least what I've been attempting to do.
>I want to believe this is possible, but I'm not sure how to make it economical
I think you're right to make that the key consideration. The moment you have any type of real expense is the moment you need income and then it becomes a question of why you would need to produce all your own food, regardless of if it's technically feasible in your situation. Even if your housing expenditure is next to nothing, you probably need to have money for clothes, tools, equipment, and such at a bare minimum. Then you have things you probably want to have like transportation, books, electronics, a cellphone, internet. Internet is a big one, luckily we have Starlink now so it should be soon available at most remote locations but it's still like $100 a month. If you have to come up with money for these expenses, getting most of your food from the store won't be that much more. This is very convoluted way of me saying you shouldn't get caught up on the homesteading idea unless it's something you truly enjoy. Supplementing is one thing but unless you devote a ton of effort to it you're not going to save that much and the expense of homesteading can negate a lot of savings. I also should point out that a lot of the alternative living situations have a similar expense so you don't have to get hung up on living in a cabin unless you would prefer it.
>Then have a remote job or something part-time in some nearby tow
It's now easier to get a remote job than ever before, this is the route I would probably try to go in your situation if you didn't already have a high paying job where you could quickly build up savings/investments to live off of. I would avoid relying on intermittent part-time jobs if you can and make hay while the sun shines. Unfortunately automation may greatly affect your ability to work in the future so I think ideally you should try to build up some investment income to fall back upon. If you were fully invested in the equity market under good conditions, you could withdraw as much as 8% a year on average without digging into your capital or suffering from inflation. Just something to consider, it would take a lot of work but with such low expenses you would basically be set for life. That is at least what I've been attempting to do.
>>175065
> Nova Scotia
Always wanted to visit there, have no idea about it at all honestly. I mean don't get me wrong, there is near infinite amounts of land to get lost in even in BC, but is there any decent farm land located near rivers that is suitable for hand farming with no modern agriculture products used? You are going to be hard pressed to find that. Using the cabin to be a getaway sounds cool, but I think you already realized what I would have say about that before I had the chance. You might as well just go camping at that point, unless you wanted to stay there for a couple months or something.
Yes I do agree much of the supposed """mental illness""" the normalfag abusers claim others have is caused by modern society itself. Whenever I visit smaller towns and those who aren't consumed by technology they seem far more content than myself, and especially compared to the others in the cities. As for freedom I meant freedom as in freedom from other humans, there is no freedom from yourself; in a survival or mental sense.
> Nova Scotia
Always wanted to visit there, have no idea about it at all honestly. I mean don't get me wrong, there is near infinite amounts of land to get lost in even in BC, but is there any decent farm land located near rivers that is suitable for hand farming with no modern agriculture products used? You are going to be hard pressed to find that. Using the cabin to be a getaway sounds cool, but I think you already realized what I would have say about that before I had the chance. You might as well just go camping at that point, unless you wanted to stay there for a couple months or something.
Yes I do agree much of the supposed """mental illness""" the normalfag abusers claim others have is caused by modern society itself. Whenever I visit smaller towns and those who aren't consumed by technology they seem far more content than myself, and especially compared to the others in the cities. As for freedom I meant freedom as in freedom from other humans, there is no freedom from yourself; in a survival or mental sense.
>>174984
I'd imagine regulations aren't as bad as in the US, but what do I know
Do you think it could be done though if you had 2 people who worked on it and pooled their money together? It has always been a dream of mine and my brother to do something like this.
I'd imagine regulations aren't as bad as in the US, but what do I know
Do you think it could be done though if you had 2 people who worked on it and pooled their money together? It has always been a dream of mine and my brother to do something like this.
>>175167
I'm not sure, my only advice is that thinking along those lines can deceiving. The largest factor is if you have the determination and temperament to do something like this by yourself and if other people join you they must also have those qualities or they'll add points of failure. Ultimately it's not much different from the problems that communes face, just at a smaller scale and with a higher likelihood of success. On paper having more than one person involved has a lot of benefits, like it's easier to build something with another person, income pooling as you said, it's more efficient to cook and clean for multiple people than just one, and the list goes on. In practice almost every commune that has ever existed has failed and unless you're on the same wavelength as your brother it will probably fail as well. Obviously it's different because you're family and there are only two people involved but unlike say pioneer families, you and your brother have other good alternatives for your living situation and they'll call to you like the sirens called to Odysseus.
I still don't think I'm as much incapable as I just grew to become disinterested. I lost the plot and I'm not sure if I'll ever get it back. Maybe I need some type of catalyst in order to not waste my life in front of a computer but I haven't found it yet.
I'm not sure, my only advice is that thinking along those lines can deceiving. The largest factor is if you have the determination and temperament to do something like this by yourself and if other people join you they must also have those qualities or they'll add points of failure. Ultimately it's not much different from the problems that communes face, just at a smaller scale and with a higher likelihood of success. On paper having more than one person involved has a lot of benefits, like it's easier to build something with another person, income pooling as you said, it's more efficient to cook and clean for multiple people than just one, and the list goes on. In practice almost every commune that has ever existed has failed and unless you're on the same wavelength as your brother it will probably fail as well. Obviously it's different because you're family and there are only two people involved but unlike say pioneer families, you and your brother have other good alternatives for your living situation and they'll call to you like the sirens called to Odysseus.
I still don't think I'm as much incapable as I just grew to become disinterested. I lost the plot and I'm not sure if I'll ever get it back. Maybe I need some type of catalyst in order to not waste my life in front of a computer but I haven't found it yet.
>>174992
>As a modern urbanite you require the easiest and most accessible living areas possible, since you lack the skills, mindset, toughness, and knowledge of the primitive man.
Not the other guy you're discussing with but this I would like to reinforce this statement. It's been said that people will sleep very well on hard rock floor until the day they try a comfortable bed, at which point they can never go back to sleeping as well on the stone as they will forever compare it to the luxury of the bed. While the whole join the army to become a man-thing that gets spouted occasionally is nothing short of normalfag propaganda getting put in a situation where you're laying in cold mud at 2AM hungry and alone you will when it will have made you more resilient to things because you're forced to endure it. It really does change you, just having that blank feeling in your head and staring with empty eyes at a twig for hours left alone with nothing but the elements and your thoughts.
It is strange to think there are actually millions upon millions of people who have lived their entire lives in cities. At most they have been out of arms reach of modern electronics and internet for a day or 2 while camping in a comfortable 3k tent at a flat and bug free campsite. I don't wish to sound like a stereotypical youth these days-guy but to think that they have never actually faced any hardships that were not in controlled enviroments like schools or workplaces and that the worst thing they could possibly think of is getting dumped by their partner or losing their job.
>As a modern urbanite you require the easiest and most accessible living areas possible, since you lack the skills, mindset, toughness, and knowledge of the primitive man.
Not the other guy you're discussing with but this I would like to reinforce this statement. It's been said that people will sleep very well on hard rock floor until the day they try a comfortable bed, at which point they can never go back to sleeping as well on the stone as they will forever compare it to the luxury of the bed. While the whole join the army to become a man-thing that gets spouted occasionally is nothing short of normalfag propaganda getting put in a situation where you're laying in cold mud at 2AM hungry and alone you will when it will have made you more resilient to things because you're forced to endure it. It really does change you, just having that blank feeling in your head and staring with empty eyes at a twig for hours left alone with nothing but the elements and your thoughts.
It is strange to think there are actually millions upon millions of people who have lived their entire lives in cities. At most they have been out of arms reach of modern electronics and internet for a day or 2 while camping in a comfortable 3k tent at a flat and bug free campsite. I don't wish to sound like a stereotypical youth these days-guy but to think that they have never actually faced any hardships that were not in controlled enviroments like schools or workplaces and that the worst thing they could possibly think of is getting dumped by their partner or losing their job.
>>175338
I Lived on rural country. you are full of it.
Most people in rural areas are incredibly fat and lazy, they have electricity, internet, appliances, amazon delivery, etc, most of the really hard work is done by mexicans or something. The average rural poster is overweight and probably spends way more time online than the city people because theres really nothing else in rural towns to do, most are either high on meth and booze or spend their days wasting away on ebay auctions and shitposting online to get away from the boredom.
Rural folk are by far the more slow minded and degenerate people i ever came across and would not like that enviroment again.
I Lived on rural country. you are full of it.
Most people in rural areas are incredibly fat and lazy, they have electricity, internet, appliances, amazon delivery, etc, most of the really hard work is done by mexicans or something. The average rural poster is overweight and probably spends way more time online than the city people because theres really nothing else in rural towns to do, most are either high on meth and booze or spend their days wasting away on ebay auctions and shitposting online to get away from the boredom.
Rural folk are by far the more slow minded and degenerate people i ever came across and would not like that enviroment again.
I've been trying to live off grid in the city. Torture. Mostly because of the people you attract and the proems they bring and they don't understand what "no water" means. No, the toilets don't work. But people will shit in them all day long. Or shit in my front yard as the neighbors "stare" at them. Whatever. Besides that, code enforcement says you can't live without water, but actually you'll prolly die without heat. I dunno. I'm "out" at the current time because winter in northern Indiana is a bitch. Working on a wood burning stove. The sanitation of the bathroom thing could be solved by digging a hole. I want to get all the utilities to take their property off my property. Fuck them and their gross and nets and sorcery. Hate.
>>175348
You paint a brutal but interesting picture. Got any more stories about rural degenerate life?
You paint a brutal but interesting picture. Got any more stories about rural degenerate life?
I think living completely off the grid is unrealistic. The ideal setup is a small house close enough to the city to get supplies but not too close to be bothered by people, noises, etc. I always considered Walter White's New Hampshire cabin pretty comfy, although I'd prefer a warmer place
>>170017
If you get good enough to be a guide, very profitable. A good hunting or fishing guide makes between $800-$2400 a day.
Selling game meat in the united states is illegal. There isn't any large established black market for it either. As most of the people willing to buy black market game meat can just get it themselves.
If you get good enough to be a guide, very profitable. A good hunting or fishing guide makes between $800-$2400 a day.
Selling game meat in the united states is illegal. There isn't any large established black market for it either. As most of the people willing to buy black market game meat can just get it themselves.
>>170165
Why is it bad for you? I think the worst part it, if you some kind of grilling, you waste the most delicious and precious part that it is in the meat - the fat. But if you do it over some pan to catch it and not fall into the fire, it is fine.
Why is it bad for you? I think the worst part it, if you some kind of grilling, you waste the most delicious and precious part that it is in the meat - the fat. But if you do it over some pan to catch it and not fall into the fire, it is fine.
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>>175665
Is this you?
It's probably good to save fat to not be wasteful innawoods but it's hardly the best part.
Is this you?
It's probably good to save fat to not be wasteful innawoods but it's hardly the best part.
>>170006
Why a cabin in the forest, when you can be a captain of the sail yacht in the endless ocean?
If I was super rich, I would buy myself a sailing boat and sail around the world alone. It is way more interesting than spending time by yourself at the same place all the time.
I can be a sailing hermit. Awesome shit.
I would even try to go to Antarctica and cross the south pole, to see by myself if this Earth is really round or flat.
Why a cabin in the forest, when you can be a captain of the sail yacht in the endless ocean?
If I was super rich, I would buy myself a sailing boat and sail around the world alone. It is way more interesting than spending time by yourself at the same place all the time.
I can be a sailing hermit. Awesome shit.
I would even try to go to Antarctica and cross the south pole, to see by myself if this Earth is really round or flat.
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