/dep/ - Depression

>what does he want from us?
to grow and become his equal. i think everyone on earth is part of the same soul that's been evolving since the first single cell organism. humanity is like a distributed network that builds knowledge and wisdom, and one day we will reach a point, call it the singularity or whatever you want, where everything will become clear to us and we get to sit by his side.
>why is he torturing us?
that's not his intention, but going through infinite cycles of birth, death and re-birth is the only way to shape our souls and helps us grow. because he gave us free will, he can't transport us to the final destination, we have to find our own way to it. this universe is simply a machine designed to get us to where we need to get through the collection of experience. a single individual's life probably seems to him like a cruel punishment or meaninglessness, but he is only a small shard of the great soul and even though from his puny perspective it all seems confusing, in the grand scheme of things we're right on track.
>why does he give great amount of suffering and horror to poor believers while giving happiness and wealth to evil disbelieving people?
again, a single individuals experience is limited to one perspective, but in order to become god, you must know everything and that means that god knows what it is to suffer but also what it is to inflict suffering. the victim and the perpetrator are the same soul that meet as a consequence of infinite events on the path to gnosis.
>why is he so careless?
after setting off the initial event, he cannot intervene because we have free will and must reach godhood on our own through infinite cycles of birth and re-birth, through division of our soul into many and ultimately a joining when the time comes.

basically, don't worry about it. we're on the right track. try to make the best of your own small tiny perspective and gain some wisdom. you cannot achieve gnosis on your own, but you could perhaps get a tiny glimpse of the divine plan. it is ultimately a matter of time and repetition before we achieve the end result. there is nothing to do but endure your part in it.

>>296143
there is no god

>>296143
It's all bullshit, but you don't have a choice. It's all predeterminied. your birth, your suffering, you can't do shit. Gnosis, enlightment, all copes. It doesn't matter.

>>296143
>what does he want from us?
He wants for us to recognize our own depraved nature and to ask for forgiveness.

>why is he torturing us?
The due penalty for sin/rebellion is death & punishment. After Man fell, he was doomed to hard labour just to eat.

>why does he give great amount of suffering and horror to poor believers while giving happiness and wealth to evil disbelieving people?
Who are you to question the Alpha and Omega? Were you there when the laid the foundations of the earth? Do you know how the Universe works? Can you make a single hair on your head white? or add a single hour of life to yours? Essentially, do you trust God, no matter what, or not? That's what the book of Job is about.

>why is he so careless?
He's perfect, try again.

>>296149
So he created us so that we suffer without reason and he wants us to forgive him? That's even more cruel. It's like torturing someone and then the one that tortured ask their victim to forgive him, because… Reasons? And when you don't forgive being tortured you will be put into hell aka being tortured for eternity. Great outlook.

>>296152
>So he created us so that we suffer without reason and he wants us to forgive him?
No he created man good. But man rebelled and corrupted himself.
The one needing forgiveness is us, not God. He didn't have to send His only begotten Son to die and take up his life again, but he did.

If your view of life is that we must only suffer, and you never question why we must suffer, then you will undoubtedly succumb to more and more sin, which will draw you further and further away from God. It wouldn't be impossible to return to him and be forgiven, but your heart may be hardened beyond belief by that point. So call out to him today while he is still a God who is near and not a God afar off.

>>296155
No, he must have known that our nature is determined to be corrupted. He only did it to have fun watching us kill ourselves.

>>296159
>Obese effeminate neckbeard DEBOONKS religion
An ancient art

>>296160
Literally Satan's way of thinking.

>>296161
Theism/Atheism debates are midwit slop.

>>296143
You got your answers:
>>296146
>>296147

Now, maybe worry about something that actually does exist. Like life, for example, and everyday life.

>>296143
This isn't 4chan. We don't have to pretend that the imaginary man in the sky exists to be epic trad crusaders LARPers, stop with the BS.

Nothing, life is just meant to be experienced and there's no real way to experience it. Make peace with that.
A mismash of four Canaanite deities bundled into one, with contradictory qualities, to the point it hasn't even been fully redacted out of scriptures, makes perfect sense in how schizophrenic all Abrahamic religion is.

>>296322
It just actually makes more sense when seen from this perspective. It makes Jesus have a reason for being.

Also, you sound like a middle schooler.

>>296325
Just FYI, this guy is a janny who seethed at me insulting him, banned me, and then had to reply to nobody because he deleted my post. Imagine the sheer amount of petty insecurity needed to behave like this, lmao. No doubt he’ll do it again. You are such a pathetic little faggot kek

>>296326
I just came back from work and I have no idea what you're talking about.
Either way since you're here, what do you believe in personally?

>>296143
Given my knowledge and personal experiences throughout my life, I have only been able to entertain one of two plausible explanations on the nature of God. First is the Epicurean belief that God(s) exist but don't care about the affairs of mortals. We were created, then our creator(s) quickly lost interest and abandoned us, now we are stuck here with our own flaws and problems with nothing to guide us except what we choose to believe in. The second possibility is the Gnostic belief that God is petty, jealous, and cruel and that the true purpose of life is to, at the time of our deaths, oppose and reject this demiurge and his world and move on to a higher plane of existence. In either case, I cannot and do not believe that the god of this world is loving and benevolent, or that he wants what's best for us.

>>296328
have you considered that there is no god and we exist because of natural phenomena, atheism gave me peace of mind

>>296328
You're already presupposing a deity has antropomorphic qualities or is anything similar to a human or animal by assuming any sort of interest in the first explanation. Omnibenevolence and love are also based on fulfilling human desires for success in subjective and situational matters.
If we take the Abrahamic framework of God, he's a bit like a borderline succubi because we're talking about 3-4 different deities in the same series of books. He's jealous and cruel and can be loving on the next page.
Actually very accurate when it comes to how the world works, unpleasant and pleasant things happen seemingly at random. Seemingly.

>Oppose and reject this demiurge and his world and move on to a higher plane of existence

If we live in this world there is absolutely no escape from it other than through suicide. I'd interpret a "higher plane of existence" as an acceptance of incondionally accepting how things operate and being able to play within this framework.

Opposing and rejecting existence by declaring that the world is problematic is the main flaw of some systems like Buddhism because it presupposes it's samsaric garbage.

The world "is". However you integrate your worldview based on that depends a lot on you and how much you're willing to go to only taking life seriously enough, but not seriously.

>>296149

Well said. It is the height of foolishness for some terminally online dweeb to question the almighty.

>>296331
It kinda makes sense we would exist by chance considering how big and random our universe is. We keep revolving everything around us and that's our biggest downfall, we are only one one star system in a entire universe filled with galaxies and other shit, how would we know anything?

He doesn't exist. He can't. Nobody can be this evil.

Every one of you are lackwit blunderers where it comes to the topic of religion. A whole group of the blind leading the blind.

Educate yourselves here. Or don't and continue to make jackasses of yourselves while those of us with higher IQs than the rest of you put together laugh at you drooling animals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx2n3NKX508&list=PLgvxaZ9IxSeJzgEkMVPe5sUfkkwot5fEy&index=3

Why did God made me such a stupid idiot? I keep making mistakes with catastrophic, life ruining results. I have zero foresight and looks like I'm going to prison where I'll surely be beaten, raped and will be sucking dick for cigarettes

>>296444
Everyone will turn their back on me. I'll lose my job that I prayed to God to give me for so long. After prison I'll be homeless and without meds I'll return to constant psychosis

>>296438

Alan Watts? Are you serious? He was a new age grifter that used watered down, pseudo Buddhist ideas to amass a cult of personality. He did manage to have sex with lots of succubi, so there's that.

>>296145
I'm not even kidding but lowkey perplexed from how good and underrated this post is.

>>296454
>lowkey
Read The Egg by Andy Weir, zoomer.

>>296143
> why does he give great amount of suffering and horror to poor believers while giving happiness and wealth to evil disbelieving people?
why is he so careless?
Because he doest exist, the rich tell you he exist to keep you dorcile and submissive

>>296143
I believe that the most absolute principle of God is the will.

Think about it, if you look at the teleological chain of life, you will find that every being with a soul only wants to exist and exaggerate its existence. God is existence itself, its essence, God only wants to exist and is the maximum being in existence. That is why he is uncaused, ungenerated, infinite, eternal, all powerful and so on, because he is existence, he cannot be denied, if he has a quality that denies his existence, God cannot be.

From this point, god only wants in the first degree to perpetuate himself as an existing being, and he already does that well, this would be the "will to live", simply to preserve and perpetuate himself, it is in this conception that we can imagine the eternal, unique, indivisible, homogeneous and static god, however, from the will to live is derived the "will to power", which is a higher state of not only wanting to perpetuate existence, but exaggerate it and extend it as much as possible, that is why god creates, because to create is to extend itself, he creates as possible, in infinite ways and infinite powers, all creation is an emanation of him, it is as if he were growing and affirming his existence. Now, God is ideal/rational, because for existence to be in agreement with God, it cannot be limited matter, it has to be thought and ideas, because only thought is unlimited, it is the invention and creation of everything, therefore, all reality is only His thought, HIS DREAM, He alone creates multiple realities and things, as if He were thinking or dreaming, that is why we do not matter to Him, do you worry about people who suffer terrible misfortunes in your dreams? No, we are only creations, His extension, playing roles, performing our "play", following the script.

Now, consciousness is also an emanation of God, He creates multiple consciences in different orders so that they continue creating like Him, in addition to the fact that God loves to create consciences since they are in His image and likeness, and likewise these are only part of Him, they are only divisions of the consciousness of God, only God parts His consciousness and generates illusions to those consciences of being his own. We understand the deepest truths in the dream state, there you realize that your "I" is false, you are false, you are only a thinking thing, you are only a consciousness, but without a specific subject, but it can interpret multiple subjects, and it is obvious that God creates consciences that believe themselves to be individual, when in reality they are only God role-playing.

>>296155
>He didn't have to send His only begotten Son to die and take up his life again, but he did.
Just as he can create the universe and men, he can create infinite sons. Jesus death literally means nothing since God can do it over and over. He probably did it more than once but it wasn't written in a book.

>>296160
>he must have known that our nature is determined to be corrupted
God is omniscient so yeah he knew

>>296143
Come home.

>>296842
>God can’t exist if he has qualities that contradict his existence.
Such as all its qualities. God is non-existence or nothingness and therefore definitionally doesn’t exist. If you stop subjecting God to personification and anthropomorphism, you’ll be able to think more rationally as opposed to pinning everything down to his incomprehensibility.

excuse me why the fuck is this thread in /dep/ ??
you have the best images, and the best music, the works of the greatest minds of all time, you have them at your fingertips, and still you are unhappy
what the fuck man, what else do you want?
is a succubus really what you want? really?? >:D

>>297172
If God exists, that adds nothing new to my idea of Him or his essence. And if He doesn't exist, then how can He lack anything. Qualities of being good, omniscient etc. presuppose existence. Now existence is just a relation between an object and certain concepts, and in case of God and other imaginary entities, no corresponding object in physical reality can be found. It's a spook or I must acquire the proof of his existence from other sources like the intuition of the aforementioned will manifesting at different levels or something, this probably would be the difference between the ontological and cosmological arguments.
>>296340
Basically this, but since dispensing with anthropormphisms is such an impossible task for us, I think the difference between pantheism and atheism is mostly a matter of semantics
>>296145
Basically Plato's chariot allegory
>>296147
>>296184
There's a good thread about free will in /lounge/ with retards saying it absolutely doesn't exist

visit the website and YouTube channel vaticancatholic. com for crucial information on this topic

He created the universe because he was horny and he jerks off to this stuff

>>296184
>Now, maybe worry about something that actually does exist.
Like God?
>>296233
4channers are the worst atheist coomer crab degenerates in the interwebz

>God
Not a thing, sorry.
>why is he torturing us?
Nature tortures all animals, including men. It's not evil, it's just how things happen to be. Nature doesn't know good from evil, it just operates deterministically.

>>299367
I doubt someone capable of creating entire universes gives a shit about obscure posts on obscure imageboards.

>>299406
Only a dumb western convert would use that language. Normal muslims call him with the arabic name Allah.
Also they don't say "all praise to him", they say peace be upon him and only refer to his messenger.

Man, I'm not even religious and I know the Qur'an and Bible better than those thumpers.

Possible reasons why God allows evil:
https://benthams.substack.com/p/why-theres-evil

>There might be various unknown reasons. Perhaps putting us in a universe like this is valuable because it is required for various hard-to-guess afterlife goods. Perhaps there’s some consequential decision that we’ll make in 5 quadrillion years that God knows will be positively shaped by us being in an indifferent universe. Given that we only witness 70 years of our lives or so, we’re not in a position to guess whether there are such great afterlife goods. This theodicy also avoids the problems with skeptical theism, because it only requires positing an unknown reason for one thing—making an indifferent universe. But surely thinking that God has some unknown reasons to do one particular act doesn’t produce global skepticism or any of the other untenable results of skeptical theism—we already know that we’re wrong sometimes!

>Perhaps being in an indifferent world, one whose features resemble the typical godless world that contains us and where we can know about the broad features of the world, strengthens our relationship with God. To consider an analogy: your relationship with your eventual spouse might be strengthened by the fact that you spent time without them. Having time without someone might strengthen your relationship with them. Similarly, time spent in a world apart from God might strengthen one’s eventual relationship with God, a relationship that is of infinite value.

>Perhaps struggling through an indifferent world, not being micromanaged by God, is uniquely valuable for soul-building. Just going through a narrowly tailored set of challenges doesn’t give one the knowledge that they can overcome hardships in the same way that overcoming a random suite of challenges does. The benefits of soul-building, as of the other benefits on this list, last forever.

>>298683
Who created nature? Who gave form to mountains and placed animals on the earth? Who makes the seeds grow? Who brings out the rain to revive a dead land?

>>300432
Who created whoever you are implying did those things? You comment is completely asinine

God exists but only as long as I believe in him. Cogito ergo sum. My mind is the source of all things that exist. God symbolizes the order of existence and is the common link between individuals. As long as you believe there is some pattern to life and something that connects all the people, you believe in God. I believe that while people are radically different there is still something that connects us. And I believe that while things seems absurd and without order on the surface, beneath the surface there is some law and order to this universe. God exists because I give birth to him.

>>296434
Outer space isn't real. We're under water inside an inverted sphere (toroid).

Somewhere along the line in human consciousness, there occurred
self-consciousness. (When I use the word “self,” I don’t mean that
there is a self or a center there.) That consciousness separated man
from the totality of things. Man, in the beginning, was a frightened
being. He turned everything that was
uncontrollable into something divine or cosmic and worshiped it.
It was in that frame of mind that he created, quote and unquote,
“God.” So, culture is responsible for whatever you are. I maintain
that all the political institutions and ideologies we have today are
the outgrowth of the same religious thinking of man. The spiritual
teachers are in a way responsible for the tragedy of mankind.

>>302155
I am like a puppet sitting here. It’s not just I; all of us are puppets.
Nature is pulling the strings, but we believe that we are acting. If
you function that way [as puppets], then the problems are simple.
But we have superimposed on that [the idea of] a “person” who is
pulling those strings.

>>302156
Nature is interested in only two things—to survive and to
reproduce one like itself. Anything you superimpose on that, all
the cultural input, is responsible for the boredom of man. So we
have varieties of religious experience. You are not satisfied with
your own religious teachings or games; so you bring in others
from India, Asia or China. They become interesting because they
are something new. You pick up a new language and try to speak it
and use it to feel more important. But basically, it is the same
thing.

>>300436
This is absurd. We don't transcend our reality, by definition of what our reality is. If God is given birth to by us, he isn't God. Can you give birth to miracles? The word of God from Heaven? No. There exists a limit to the human mind and God, by definition, would exist beyond it.

>>302155
Why don't we say that the self awareness itself is a proof that God exists, Our awareness is of God's knowledge or either that we created omnipotence through our awareness

>>302180
the self
is an insubstantial construct invented to lend coherence and meaning to
an existence that is actually chaotic and meaningless

>>302155
It doesn’t matter whether the cultural hero-system is frankly magical, religious, and primitive or secular, scientific, and civilized.
It is still a mythical hero-system in which people serve in order to
earn a feeling of primary value, of cosmic specialness, of ultimate usefulness to creation, of unshakable meaning. They earn this feeling by carving out a place in nature, by building an edifice that reflects human value: a temple, a cathedral, a totem pole, a skyscraper, a family that spans three generations. The hope and belief is that the things that man creates in society are of lasting worth and meaning, that they outlive or outshine death and decay, that man and his products count. When Norman O. Brown said that Western society since Newton, no matter how scientific or secular it claims to be, is still as “religious” as any other, this is what he meant: “civilized” society is a hopeful belief and protest that science, money and goods make man count for more than any other animal. In this sense everything that man does is religious and heroic, and yet in danger of being fictitious and fallible.