/dep/ - Depression

>The character picked himself up somehow… Which makes me feel like it's all my fault. Might be true too which is why I'm trying to figure things out.
Notice how he described being bullied in his past life, and we also don't know exactly how his parents were. But when he got a loving family, true friends and supportive mentors in the isekai world, things worked out for Rudeus.
Well, that's what we kinda lack. We are different in some way, so people osctracize us, so we don't develop meaningful, supportive relationships and that leads us to becoming more different, which ostracizes us more which leads to not getting supportive relationships… You get the idea. It's a spiral, it's hard to get out the deeper you go.
So, to answer your question, I don't want anything, now at least. I want to go back and rewind my life and be normal (like it's possible, heh) and only then I can have something resembling a normal social life. I can't pick up the pieces and do something about myself now, it's too late. I know, I know the typical "it's over," but it's really over. It's hard to raise above the older you get.

>>306410
Samefag, sorry.
Anyway, about wanting a mentor and such. Not possible. People see you being all alone and think it's your own doing or your own choice.
Like, I visited many shrinks and they slapped SzPD or AvPD diagnoses on me like I wanted the life of solitude. Like I didn't try to make friends and was rejected or even beaten for asking, like I didn't try making imaginary friends and thinking my 2D waifu loves me to cope with loneliness, like I didn't become clueless and disinterested when it comes to xxx because I'm so repulsive I can't imagine myself in such scenario and turned to wizardom. No, it's your choice, your doing, or you have a """disorder""" that makes you want to be all alone.
People really do think you don't take enough showers or you like it that way do they don't bother helping you.
Truly, I wouldn't mind a true friend, but such friend probably thinks I should be left alone because I'm too unapproachable (read: ugly and retarded).

If you're on here trying to imitate or form connections with normies will only make you miserable. Best bet is trying to find another comfy non-normie for friendship. You really want to fake being a normie so you gain "access" to the game of humiliation, backstabbing, psychological aggression, fake smiles etc? Just stay comfy wiz
Society is too aggressive for people like us

First of all, thank you for taking the time to respond. I'm not very good at being coherent and to-the-point as you guys.

>>306410
Yeah unfortunately this is the reality of things. For some reason it just kept eating away at me.
Normally I'm very onboard with determinism (post the galton board stuff often), but reflecting upon the past, at first pass it felt like I "should have could have would have" a lot of things.

>The MC powered through and things worked out, but that was because the other parties involved also cared.
I even pointed this out in part here. Trying to somehow escape my self-blame cycle.

It's just frustrating not having anyone in particular to hate, no big villain to slay, no antagonist. Just a set of bad variables in the grand scheme of things.
Considering my parents also had it rough in their life.

>reroll
Yeah that is the only way really. I'm way too old to change, and even if I did, as much as I'm trying now I can feel that certain things really truly are set in stone.
No matter how much I try to gaslight myself otherwise with all the should-haves. Your post here helped me break this self-blame process to an extent. Thanks for that.
It really is over. I'm not quite 30, will be in less than 2 months and this looming over me, my reflection in the mirror, health issues etc. made it crystal clear that "it's over".
I've become increasingly aware of certain life experiences, certain stages of growth need to be met by a certain age.
Opportunities just don't exist for a lot of things anymore.

>>306411
The mentor thing was just me elaborating on what I would have wanted in an ideal world I guess as I'm not quite sure what having good parent would even entail aside from safety and guidance.
Though I fully agree with you here as well.
I went to a few psychs and aside from some horrible edge-case experience, the one that actually talked with me a bit marked me as schizoid with autistic tendencies or something.
Not an official diagnosis as I didn't go back, but the old guys best advice was for me to become a hermit. It sounded appealing at the time, but again, as I get older I just don't enjoy the idea that much.

>Like I didn't try to make friends and was rejected or even beaten for asking, like I didn't try making imaginary friends and thinking my 2D waifu loves me to cope with loneliness, like I didn't become clueless and disinterested when it comes to xxx because I'm so repulsive I can't imagine myself in such scenario and turned to wizarddom.
Exact same experience. Small village, then small town, I tried over and over and over again. Rejection, humiliation, worse even when it came to simple stuff like making friends to play tag with and so on.
I kept trying until I couldn't anymore. By the time I hit puberty I was too broken and molded by the feedback loop mentioned in your first post >>306410.

I deeply resonate with the second part of the quoted text too. A lot of things in life I didn't even bother with because of the same reason. I couldn't even fathom myself in the situation.
I don't hate being a virgin, I have no issue with it. My problem is simply that the character I turned out to be is quite miserable regardless, because the same things that lead to my (soon to be) wizard status aren't exactly conducive to leading an enjoyable life.

>>306413
Not sure what specifically to respond to here, so I'll use it as a chance to elaborate on part of why I'm writing here and what I'm trying to understand or "shape myself" better to attain.
Simply put. I desire companionship.
That is the word I was looking for when I typed relationships in the OP I think.
Deep friendships with the like minded, preferably those that I can forge a lifelong bond with over some shared experience.

Now currently I still have one such friend, at least I prefer to believe so. We "faked" going to college together for almost a decade to NEET at the time so that is surely something.
My issue with this is that it still feels so temporary and beyond my control.
Of course out of the two of us I'm the only one with a singular friend, he has quite the network in comparison and the ability to make more friends online too despite being on the fringes of interest and behavior.
I do consider him my one true friend. Not a single negative thought I could say. These are simply a few sentences showcasing my insecurity.

I wish I had the ability and opportunities to do so as well. I don't wish to be a hermit, not now nor in my future which honestly looks rather bleak.
I desire companionship.
Not someone to talk at as they wait their turn to talk like some temporary relations I had in hobby circles for example.
I wish to belong to something tangible.

Now the issue is that I don't exactly know how I would envision such a thing. At my age, no more opportunities to forge "war buddies" like the NEET escapades, shared burden forges strong bonds.
What would I even expect from a companion? I already mentioned depth of interactions, but that is a very flimsy thing.
How would one even go about joining any group or such friendship at my age, without opportunities that used to be abundant in the past, yet yielded no result?..

What would I want this companion to be like? How should he treat me? More importantly then, what would such a companion wish from me?
That second part was what kept me in this doomspiral of thought. I desire things I do not deserve. My one friend is already more than I deserve. I have nothing to offer to anyone, I have very few interests, non which are particularly stimulating to engage with for others and even those I fail to pursue do to mental challenges.
I don't even pursue things I supposedly enjoy, let alone things I should to progress in life. I'm not much of an engaging person to interact with either.
Upon reflection I also fall into the trap of "just waiting for my turn to speak onesidedly".
How and what could I even want or expect from someone else when I'm like this?

Overall, an empty husk that has the mindset of a beaten dog and little opportunities to meet people let alone forge bonds desiring companionship at 30 is a laughable thing.
It really might just be over.

>fake being a normie
I made a strong attempt at this at the start of college. I forced myself to act as much as I could to the point where in that freshmen year I was the one to gather two social groups myself from those that arrived.
Introduced people too, helped the awkward stragglers join in early acquired all kinds of materials for people from upperclassmen to share too.
I ended up being an outcast from those very groups I formed in less than a month and a bit. Ended up with some in hindsight hilariously pathetic and humiliating situations.
I can't even pinpoint how or why it happened. It wasn't exactly explicitly stated, but made very obvious that I was unwanted.

It's pathetic to think I might just rot in my own piss if a disc slipped in my neck for example since nobody would look for me. I set up some phone AI assistant so I can at least call an ambulance with voice activation for example.
I don't think it's unreasonable to want to be liked by some at least. Some that want my presence and to interact with me and not simply tolerate, but even that would be a decent first step.
Maybe someone to think positively of me even if I do end up becoming a carpet stain.
You know after some surgeries they just don't let you go home unless someone picks you up… then it's an entire humiliation ritual to tell the nurses and doctors that there is nobody that can.
It's painful to exist like this, but then again what could I even offer… I don't deserve what I yearn for.

Maybe my definition of a friend or what is reasonable to expect from such, or what companionship is in real life like is too unrealistic fueled by fantasy.

Sorry for the overly long "blogposts". I've been in some pretty bad headspace that I'm trying to reign in somehow. I ventured too off-topic because there are many things that relate to the issue at hand too.
I'm just not very good at succinctly describe the dots that somehow connect in my head and I just want to share even with the void if need be.

yeah. wanted to reply, but there isn't much to say except that i can in some way relate to it.

emotionally sensitive people in general are a risk group, add in the being a wizard and you get a ticking bomb of a man.

you wanted me to share my knowledge… i have a lot of thoughts that could stretch forever without gaining anything in meaning, but there's one thing i have no doubt about anymore. i must love my suffering. since for me it is physically impossible, due to brain issues, to not feel continuous suffering, there is no other choice.

my life is just a crude attempt to cope with this deprivation. i yearn for things that are usually only available to normies, but i can't bear to actually do any of those normie rituals. so it's like, maybe want a friend to do something fun with, but i can't actually bear all of the baggage that comes with it. in fact, when it comes to it, i can't even bear the fun part itself.

so you see? i want things, but they don't actually give me the gratification i imagined they would. because of this, i just suffer continuously. there is no way out.

>>306415
Interesting you managed to find a friend, once I seriously started thinking about this, it was way too late. I am semi-comfortable being alone anyway.
Despite never having friends I know such a thing is possible, and I'm not talking about this nonsense normies call "friendship".

>>306453
It was rather forced on my end in the beginning.
I went to class, sat at the back and played some games or just slept. Again, only going to college to pretend every once in a while to pseudo-NEET it up for a long time.

Kept noticing some, well, rather odd fellow in a huge jacket showing up late to every class. Easy to spot due to the acoustics of a hall and being at the back, then him trampling down the stairs etc.
I just felt like we were cut of the same cloth.

One day he left early, but there was some eye-tracker testing you could participate in for like 30% credit.
On my way out I saw him about 50-100m ahead, across the parking lot so I shouted for him to wait up for some reason.
Both of us were quite shocked. I wasn't used to doing shit like this.
Ran up to him as fast as my fat ass would allow, told him to go back and get the free credits for the class and then I just kept approaching him later on whenever I'd spot him.

Turned out I was right, ended up making my only friend. While we are very similar in wavelength our interests and eccentricities differ significantly.
Of course neither of us passed regardless of the extra points.
If you only show up so you can play video games or sleep for the rest of the day with a good excuse for not working, I guess that happens.

The college larping worked out pretty well though. Both of us got our first real jobs after being forced only at 27-28.
Had a good run.
Wasn't even enrolled for the last year and a half of it, that was just pure NEETing.

To turn this back on topic a little bit.
At some point I ended up flat out telling my mom about what I was doing. She was quite shocked, more so that she never really put the pieces together. I mean who goes to college for 7 fucking years?
It was some kind of motherly willful ignorance to the glaring flaws of her son.

In a sense whenever I look back at my "journey" I'm reminded of that welcome to the NHK guy, just never really improving and of course minus the succubus.
Ended up with a dead end menial job too. Will see how things pan out.

End of blogpost#3912

>>306460
You're not alone; friend of the family did exactly that, but didn't have the presence of mind to commit and killed himself shortly after being found out.

Well done on winning ?

>>306464
>didn't have the presence of mind to commit and killed himself shortly after being found out.
Was a close call after year one. Didn't have the brainpower drunk out of my mind to figure out how to get through the fencing at a bridge over the railway before they called security.

>Well done on winning ?
Thanks I guess. Sorry about the guy you mention. Things might have worked out for him too if he stuck around.
Can't blame him though.

>>306460
this is so unwinzardly, not only it contains some gay male homo story but also references NHK which is a fake wizard anime about some chad everyone loves getting attention from succubi just for existing. this is not wizard like or neet like

>>306469
Which part exactly? No homosexuality implied. I dislike everything LGBT related in general, mostly due to aesthetics reasons.

The only reason I'm referencing the NHK guy is because I had a lot of similar events and it still resonates with me in spite of the succubus delusion the MC had.
I'm more than happy to engage further if given more than "you are not a real wizard harry".

In my interpretation the succubus is also just a delusion of his in the grand scheme of things.
Some wizards on here are coming up with tulpas for such purposes. I personally don't favor making such a thing, especially a succubus, but it is what it is.
Can't blame people coping with imaginary friends.

The guy also has one friend that slowly moves beyond him. One mentor like figure that also just there to reflect his stagnation.
His mother supports him, so did mine.
I've ended up trying all the memes including making smut, vidya, MLMs, selling shit I grinded in video games, starting art related hobbies and failing at the starting line. Had a brief mental asylum experience too and eventually ended up a wagie after almost a decade of successful NEETdom.

I don't consider myself entirely dismissed as a wizard just because I referenced an anime you dislike.
People find meaning and comfort in all kinds of things.
I admit some might argue that referencing a now fairly mainstream story in the OP was an even worse offense considering the contents and the show itself featuring a current non-virgin.
Then again the point wasn't "I want to fuck succs in another world" it was about trying to understand what I should even be expecting in family and general human relation dynamics in this god forsaken reality.

Being detached from the world leaves one prone to a lot of magical thinking which I wished to shape into a more pragmatic, realistic frame of mind to navigate the world.
I was advised by mental health professionals that being a hermit might just be the path for me, but it is not a viable one despite it being fine on a surface level.
I yearn for companionship, as described above. Not at all related to carnal relations or female company.

I'm exposing myself here despite the anonymity, rejection still hurts.
If you are unwilling to share yourself, I wish you would at least dismiss me with a deeper reason aside from what feels like regurgitated memes and "I'll have to fit in" knee-jerk responses.
At least understanding would help me course correct, if I really went too far off.

>>306460
>I went to class, sat at the back and played some games or just slept. Again, only going to college to pretend every once in a while to pseudo-NEET it up for a long time.
>At some point I ended up flat out telling my mom about what I was doing. She was quite shocked, more so that she never really put the pieces together. I mean who goes to college for 7 fucking years?
Interesting, I wasn't aware that there were others who fake(d) going to university in order to fool their parents with the intent of buying a few years of extra neetdom. I've been at it for some time now and I'm surprised at how easy it is with just a few lies and deception. But I guess it's only natural. Higher education doesn't really care about students, unlike high school, and society will not go out of their way to check on a fuckup like me if I'm just living quietly in my room. But I do have to inquire as to how you managed to tell your parents about the situation. My plan has always been to kill myself before they found out similar to what >>306464 said. That being said I have some time left until then so I'm still weighing my options.

>>306481
I can't give specific advice unfortunately. Mostly another blogpost, just read the TL;DR
My family situation is rather poor, father was abusive, had shotguns pointed at us, had to beg him not to slit my moms throat on occasion.
They divorced when I was a young teen so I only really had my mother side of the family to deceive.
This in part enabled me to do what I did.

As I said, my mother being fairly similar to me in personality, full of neurotic tendencies she was completely blind to my flaws.
Even now it's all papered over, like some sort of constant strong self-deception on her part.
The last year of it all I couldn't really keep pretending anymore as my sister at that point was about to move out having graduated herself being many years my junior.

I was in a bad headspace, had I not managed to find a job through something akin to divine intervention I would have offed myself that summer.
The final 1.5 years I've not even been enrolled so things were going to end one way or another, I was about to be forced to start repaying the government for the years of college without a degree.

I ended up sitting down with her and telling her about everything I've done for the past decade in great detail, my frame of mind and lastly my future plans and aspirations, or rather the lack thereof.
She was mostly shocked by how much she willfully ignored, but again nothing major happened as a result. She was fairly understanding, considering her childhood and life was even more fucked.
She was somewhat happy I believe that I was going to be staying with her for the rest of my life pretty much.

You mention parents, plural, it really depends on your situation and how your relationship with them is. Some parents in our extended family took care of homeless/druggie sons, some screwed over their own kids intentionally, some kicked out the stragglers American style.
You might just get lucky telling them everything upfront like I did.

At some point I had some plans of "making it" out of my situation and NEETing on my own merit by doing MLM shit, trying my hand at smut and patreon moneys, but ended up not doing much work as usual.
Currently if I'm losing my godsent job I might end up spiraling towards suicide still, despite my relatively blessed circumstances. Mostly due to health reasons and lack of skills limiting future prospects. Also moms health is failing so it is what is. If I end up in roles reversed, having to take care of her I'm not going to lie and pretend I'd last long.

Just to illustrate my relationship with my mother I'll give an example of stuff I shared with her. I was at some point fucking around with 3D printed molds for silicone since one of my bright ideas for making money was copying bad dragon which is a popular brand for degenerates. (I do not take part in any of such nonsense, I do have some onaholes though.)
As I have some minor 3D skills (from my prior attempts at making games for easy money…) I thought it should be piss easy.
Of course it wasn't and I didn't make anything worth jack, but I could show her and talk to her about it like some kid explaining how he was going to be an astronaut with starry eyes.
Could you sit with your mom explaining to her all this shit while showcasing the website? I'll hazard a guess and say you probably can't considering you have a father as well.
I've spent about a years wages (from my own job) on yugioh cards that depreciate like 90% because I'm a retard and she was fine with it.

>TL;DR:
I have a broken (similar to myself) mother who has some martyr complex/mentality towards me. I've lucked out and did nothing special.
I didn't do anything extra about pretending either.
As you said, nobody cares on the educator side on that level.
First year I was in a dorm, after that I just commuted and sat around either back of the class, the hallways, random benches outside etc.

If you are relatively young and only screwed around for 2.5-3 years max, you could fake being extremely burnt out, never wishing to return to college and try to find a menial job, preferably hybrid or work from home. (Call center shit is about the only one for no-skill people like me.)
Just make sure your parents wont be making calls to some counselor to ask around for ways to "help their son finish the degree".
Wish I had something more tangible to offer you.

>suicide
I'd wait it out as long as I can. The world currently is in a weirdly fragile state which might end up creating opportunities for the likes of us.
What that might look like depends on where you live. Maybe I'll be forced to become drone fodder, who knows.
If you got nothing to lose might as well wait it out if you can, even if you have to swallow some abuse and humiliation.

>>306484
Thanks for responding.
>You might just get lucky telling them everything upfront like I did.
From my understanding, our situations are quite different so I doubt that my parents would accept it quite as easily. My parents weren't particularly abusive (unless you consider the typical scolding/yelling and normalfaggotry a form of mental abuse) and I don't have any traumatic past events that I could use as an excuse to my parents for my failures in life. The honest truth is that I'm a lazy coward and I was given many opportunities that I turned down in favor of mindless self-indulgence and delusions of grandeur. If I had an imaginary audience spectating my life they'd probably say that "I had it coming" or something along those lines.

>Could you sit with your mom explaining to her all this shit while showcasing the website?
Yeah you're correct I definitely couldn't. Yesterday, my mother was scolding me for having no social life despite "living through the best times of my life" so it goes without saying that she wouldn't approve of any hobbies. In fact, she threatened to kick me out and force me to live with my dad (my parents are divorced) because I choose to spend my "leisure time" on the computer.

>I've spent about a years wages (from my own job) on yugioh cards
I used to play yugioh semi-competitively on dueling network so I don't have much familiarity with the physical version but to my understanding the price of card can rise depending on its relevance in the metagame.

>If you are relatively young and only screwed around for 2.5-3 years max, you could fake being extremely burnt out, never wishing to return to college and try to find a menial job, preferably hybrid or work from home.
That's likely what the future holds for me if I don't kill myself within the next few years. My parents still hold relatively high expectations of me (likely due to the fact that I lie about getting good grades and also doing decently well back in highschool) which would make getting a dead end job even more humiliating. I would be nothing more but a walking reminder of my failure and incompetence and that is excluding their initial reaction. My case is similar to yours in the sense that I have no skills or qualifications outside of a high school degree, meaning that my life will comprise of daily suffering and humiliation as I slowly succumb to the various health problems I've developed due to being on my computer all the time.

>I'd wait it out as long as I can. The world currently is in a weirdly fragile state which might end up creating opportunities for the likes of us.
I admire your optimism and I understand that suicide is a deeply personal matter but to me it has always been the end-goal of my deception. I have the ligature hidden in my room and I've already experimented enough to know how to use it so I could theoretically hang myself at any point as long as I'm alone for enough time.

>wait it out
I've thought about this as well but then I realized that what I'm waiting for is nothing short of a miracle. I'm not making any attempt to better myself and I'm certainly not doing anything to change my situation which makes the waiting a sort of slow torture of paranoia and fear. Still, I wish you luck in your endeavors, and I hope that your mother's health doesn't fail too fast.

>>306487
>The honest truth is that I'm a lazy coward and I was given many opportunities that I turned down in favor of mindless self-indulgence and delusions of grandeur.
Definitely share these feelings in hindsight. At the time it didn't seem like it, but this was the key. Though in my case this attitude was more of a defense mechanism of sorts.
I'd also call it insecurity in my case. Had I taken certain opportunities, offers of help etc. I would have had to expose myself as weak, broken and incompetent, so I didn't.

>which would make getting a dead end job even more humiliating.
I mean certainly from some perspective, but if you are ready and willing to end it all, the perhaps consider that this is you being "self-indulgent with delusions of grandeur" again.
Most people, like 20-25 out of a 30 person class end up in some sort of menial position starting out, and a majority stick around.
I've been a cashier for a short time and most people working those jobs were 35-40-45+ people who have been there forever out of convenience.
Nothing necessarily wrong about it.
Adjusting personal expectations to your reality is something you can and should do considering you had already spent so much effort self reflecting.

How your parents will feel about it is for them to deal with.
Though I know it's not that simple, of course.

>My case is similar to yours in the sense that I have no skills or qualifications outside of a high school degree, meaning that my life will comprise of daily suffering and humiliation as I slowly succumb to the various health problems I've developed due to being on my computer all the time.
>I'm not making any attempt to better myself and I'm certainly not doing anything to change my situation which makes the waiting a sort of slow torture of paranoia and fear.

Absolutely spot on. One has a laundry list of obvious causes for ones misery, yet despite being in mental and physical agony one doesn't act in their own self interest for whatever reason.
Paralyzed.
It's unfortunate, I understand and live it as my reality as well.
Only time really helped me a bit. I'm making small, but notable, incremental progress. Doctors appointment call took 2 weeks? At least it was made… at my pace.
Maybe you'll be able to make some progress too if you stick around. It really doesn't take a lot to make life livable if you aren't in some absolute abject poverty in the third world.
As you can see by the OP topic I'm already scratching the surface of "social needs", because most else is met, fortunately enough.


I'm not that optimistic, but I hesitate supporting suicide on here as much as others do. You having the contraption of your choice ready is already quite scary, but in some ways beneficial too. (Memento mori, or simply a "i can always escape" thing I guess.)
I'm a man of inaction so when I do something it's either on a momentary impulse, or weeks/months of agonizing before I do it.
Having a figurative suicide gun under your pillow isn't a good policy in my eyes unless such an end is your primarily desired outcome.

>it has always been the end-goal of my deception
Yet you inquire about ways to break the news to your parents in a way that would give you an alternate out. I hope you aren't feeling trapped by some arbitrary decision based on circumstances and emotional states of the past.
I wouldn't consider myself a complete lost cause, it doesn't feel like you are one either.

I'm sure you have thought things through since you know your circumstances and how you experience them the best. Suffering is relative and deeply personal.

Despite all this talk if I was kicked out and now I had to suffer a dead end job as a wagie, all my time spent on work and sustaining myself, all my money spent on the same I would have ended it too.
So I'm spouting nonsense from a relative point of privilege in my ivory tower.
I'd still rather go with "you can always kill yourself, tomorrow" instead for as long as possible.

Best of luck to you too.

>>306488
>though in my case this attitude was more of a defense mechanism of sorts.
In what sense? I can understand the insecurity part (never really had to struggle much for anything in life myself) but I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly.

>Nothing necessarily wrong about it.
I don't believe that these kinds of jobs or the people working at them are any lesser or that they're inherently humiliating. Sorry if I came off like that. It's more so my parents' reaction that scares me and how I would feel humiliated every time I have to interact with them or any other relative. They certainly have higher expectations for me… and that's what frightens me the most. It's them who'd find it (and subsequently me) pathetic.

>Maybe you'll be able to make some progress too if you stick around. It really doesn't take a lot to make life livable if you aren't in some absolute abject poverty in the third world.
You might be right. And I'm almost positive that I wouldn't be going homeless since even my parents aren't that heartless. My biggest concern is the initial reaction I'll have to face when/if I tell them the truth. Did you feel any sense of ease after you came clear to your mother? Was it like a mental weight had been lifted from you or did the shame and fear for the future drown any comfort that might have come with it?

>I wouldn't consider myself a complete lost cause, it doesn't feel like you are one either.
To my understanding, it seems like you were able to move on from the event with relative success (as much as one can achieve in this situation anyways) so I definitely wouldn't consider you too far gone. As for me, suicide is just the easier option. Sure, I would prefer to stay alive rather than to die an early death but it's not as if I have anything major to look forward to that gives me the strength I need to carry on. And the "you can always kill yourself, tomorrow" idea only really works if one's life is comfortable enough to justify it (Something that I've been recently lacking). There's something greatly ironic about fucking up your life and then making a swift escape just as the walls start to close in. There's a quite sort of rebellion in it.

Oh and sorry for derailing your thread.

>>306512
>Oh and sorry for derailing your thread.
No worries, I was confused about the purpose of it while making it anyways and it seem we are still on a related topic. I'm just using sage so it doesn't get bumped over and over annoying others as most of my responses were very blogpost like.

>In what sense?
I was very self-aware (or self-conscious might be better phrase) as a kid. I knew my situation wasn't normal. I knew I wasn't normal. I knew I was lacking in a lot of ways.
It was also made extremely clear to me that people figuring out what's happening at home is going to end poorly in many gruesome ways.
This meant I never wanted to show weakness and I developed dumb behavior patterns.
I ended up becoming a compulsive liar at school and arrogant despite being of meager abilities with no social status as an outcast.

I'd be standoffish and make remarks despite it resulting in beatings or stronger bullying.
Even if I ended up breaking down and crying or whatever I'd still be talking in ways that would attempt to dismiss others and prop myself up the next day.
Gloat over others with every achievement that I didn't really earn, I was simply naturally better at some things than others while also dismissing every topic or thing others were better than me at.

Now this wasn't my default state. I made good honest attempts at making friends and went to great lengths to fit in.
But again, I was different, people could sense it and I was rejected time and time again.
Everywhere.
Changing schools, moving places I tried to reset, but never managed to. Rejection always came eventually and I'd fall back into old habits to safeguard my soul.

>defense mechanism
In summary, I was broken by poor situation, poor genetics and this compounded with rejection faced at every turn.
I couldn't handle the shame. I couldn't accept that I was worth less than a stray dog. Shame of my underdeveloped body, shame of my weakness, my anxious desperation, my family situation.
I decided the grapes were indeed sour since they were beyond my reach.
Shame turned into compulsive lying and the regular physical torments and fear of further pain, as said like an abused dog barking and making noise or lashing out to scare of such attempts.
Had I accepted my lot completely during my youth I would have killed myself no question about it.

I'm not saying any of this was good. I'm just saying I can at least… not justify, but observe cause and effect.
I feel like given my abilities, given my knowledge and opportunities visible to me I made the best choices. The best choices from the view of the person I was at the time.

>Some practical examples after the incoherent rambling.
I'm sure you might have had to write essays in school about what you did during breaks or whatnot.
I couldn't simply write, oh my mom was in the hospital (pregnant) and I was starving at home since my father left to wherever after beating the shit out of me for asking. The neighbor lady gave me some food, my father found out later and since "we lost face" to the outside I was beaten even more.
Small, forced lies to hide reality. Eventually it becomes habit and used even when not really necessary.

Boasting about winning or being good at something was just hiding fragility. Weakness would make more opportunity for abuse. More reason for rejection.
So even if I couldn't do something I never asked for help. I'd pretend it's all fine.
I'd pretend I could do it if it was worth bothering with. That kind of stuff. Literally sour grapes behavior.

>>306512
Part 2 because it ended up being way too long, but I already typed it so might as well…

>It's more so my parents' reaction that scares me and how I would feel humiliated every time I have to interact with them or any other relative. They certainly have higher expectations for me… and that's what frightens me the most. It's them who'd find it (and subsequently me) pathetic.
I had this too and I don't really know how to deal with since again it's highly personal to you.
I'd say it's a good mindset to have that this isn't necessarily a personal failure on your end. It's as much their failure as yours if not more.
They'll be the ones who have to confront this, they'll have to deal with it and move on. Or so it would be in a sane world, but I understand normies would rather blame you and get you out of their sight.
>It's them who'd find it (and subsequently me) pathetic.
That is for them to deal with, more so than it is for you. You can't really affect how they'll process things too much. If they care enough, they will look past this and look towards helping you forge a future in spite of such a setback.
I say this, but I understand. It's not that simple and full of uncertainty.

In some ways I made this thread asking this too. To what extent should one place expectations on others?
To what extent does one have to care about the feelings of the parent/sibling/friend compared to the feelings of their own?
Even the manga/story referenced had moments like this. The child made some great strides and swallowed plenty of pain to move things along and close the chasms between them and the parent.
A wizard replied giving me a reality check that that isn't realistic at all.
>>The MC powered through and things worked out, but that was because the other parties involved also cared.
You can do whatever on your end. You can have your thoughts consume your soul. You can work yourself to the bone, but if the other parties don't care you'll never move the needle.
So do what you can and hope that they will do so too.

>My biggest concern is the initial reaction I'll have to face when/if I tell them the truth.
If you think your parents wouldn't kick you out or disown you I believe getting this out there as soon and as cleanly, clearly as possible will yield the best result.
But both sides need to make the effort. I pray your parents empathy will prevail.

>Did you feel any sense of ease after you came clear to your mother?
Yes an insane amount. I was making unnecessary distance between me and the only person that might really care about me for years at that point to hide the shame of my reality.
Relief is not a strong enough word to describe it.
>or did the shame and fear for the future drown any comfort that might have come with it?
It was over. I was going to either come clean and maybe receive some sort of salvation or leave, end it to no longer burden her.
The reason I came clean is because the pain/shame of not doing so became unbearable and the situation couldn't be taped over any longer no matter what. My hand was forced by circumstance and mental limits, breaking points.

If you do end up coming clean, which I recommend you should also consider what comes next, think of some ways to move forward. Some minor plans, like taking a part time job, or some menial job to not just rot away.
You'll contribute in some form, but need both time and space to gather yourself, fix yourself mentally and physically before you commit to a future.
I didn't just tell her everything in excruciating detail and leave it at that, but I also didn't ask for help or forgiveness, just understanding.
It was more important to me than anything for someone close to me to know that I didn't intentionally become what I was, that it wasn't out of spite or malice at least, that I made the best of the choices I thought I had…

It will take some time to process, and how they process it is up to them.
This "confession" shouldn't end up feeling like some ultimatum sentencing yourself to condemnation though. Make sure they understand that this isn't the end of their son. (If you can…)
Basically the point of this section is to think of how you frame things, don't be dishonest or try to make things look better than they are, but there needs to be some way to connect for them too.
Make sure it doesn't come off as blaming them either.
The topic of this thread was supposed to question this, but I feel like nobody would argue that it is abnormal to reach out to your parents for support in some way… It should be normal even if it isn't for many wizards.

>if I have anything major to look forward to that gives me the strength I need to carry on.
I understand. I have nothing grand in mind either. I just keep at it because I prefer to stay alive, and yes it is likely because of my relative comfort. I'm at a tolerable level of suffering physically and mentally. Again, I'm well, relatively.
I understand you aren't. I don't condemn taking the swift escape route.

You can always kill yourself tomorrow means to me that I might as well do something absurd, might as well do something I wouldn't normally dare to, might as well suffer a bit more.
Might as well come clean, in your case. Will it change anything?

At least they will understand why it happened instead of their "son who does well in college randomly killing himself, nobody saw this coming".
You don't owe them this.
You owe yourself the opportunity.
If you are going to leave, then do so after facing reality. You can endure the humiliation and the pain one more time, hell even a few more times. You already have.
The rope is going to be there tomorrow and the burden you already carry from the imagined future pain isn't all that different from the pain of whatever comes from facing things head on.
Not once you are hanging anyways.

>There's a quite sort of rebellion in it.
Maybe. Everything I write is from my perspective. I can't give proper advice and by no means do I wish to force my beliefs on you.
You might want to try knocking on a few more doors, trying the handles, see if they are truly closed and if all else fails, the doors are all truly shut in front of you, then leave if you wish.
I'm not demanding you find the strength to break them down or anything.

Worst case, you end up more miserable, but you… end. Suffer more, for however long, but end all the same. It's always there. No need to rush.

Best case, you come clean, you slowly get closer to family as you can now present yourself fully, without deception. You embrace whatever lot you get, suffer through menial labor and use the newfound funds for small pleasures.
Perhaps find a hobby you enjoy, leading to connections and eventually, maybe you find a greater reason too. I picked up hobbies, joined communities, failed or gave up, left, fell back to old habits, picked new things again.
I've been failing over and over and at this point I'm okay with it. Not everything is "for me", though I'm not certain what really is for me yet. It takes me months, sometimes a year to try something new again, but it's fine, it's my life, I can take it or leave it tomorrow once again.

You'll build a decent safety net with family and savings which will give you enough peace of mind to at least consider how to proceed.
Once you are out of the immediate threat mindset you might just look back at things in a similar way.
Alternatively you can just save up enough to trueNEET for a few months somewhere and then end it if you still want to.



I get it. I've been through this pain, I've faced the problem and lucked out. Now in hindsight it might even feel like I'm downplaying the agony before it.
I have it easy now because it's already behind me. I didn't forget the desperation of my supposed "last summer" of my life, but I'm no longer there.
You on the other hand have suffered for years with the negative thoughts building, things looking ever more grim day after day with a great uncertainty looming ahead.
I'm sure you have been harsher on yourself, thought worse things and said worse things than whatever they might throw at you though.
The shame, guilt, despair… I get wanting to just bail and skip it.

I hope non of this comes of as me preaching from an ivory tower though. It really isn't my intention. Simply sharing my experiences, thoughts and perspective. It comes from relative comfort.
Random text from a random loser. Feel free to dismiss it as such.
I genuinely meant no harm with it nor do I believe that my experience maps onto the lives of others so easily.

>>306519
I'm sorry to hear about your past. It goes to show that life really is just a game of chance, and you seemed to have drawn a bad hand. I wonder if you could request neetbux for childhood trauma or something similar? I've never tried getting neetbux myself so I'm not sure what is or isn't allowed. Regardless, your failings seem to be much more justified than mine. I'm not saying that your mother forgave you just because of your past but it's certainly possible that it impacted her decision. Meanwhile, I don't have any past woes my parents could turn to and blame my failure of a life on. That seems to be a fairly major difference between us. Although I will say that it is admirable that you managed to overcome your past attitude, many people who experience this kind of trauma merely continue to perpetuate the cycle of abuse (if they do not kill themselves).

>>306521
>They'll be the ones who have to confront this, they'll have to deal with it and move on. Or so it would be in a sane world, but I understand normies would rather blame you and get you out of their sight.
If I had to imagine a hypothetical scenario where this would take place they would likely constantly remind me of how I failed at everything and that I'm "wasting my life" (As if there's a good use of one's life in this world). I've made some terrible mistakes in the past but this is really a whole new level of fucking up. I can't see a world where they would eventually move past it without it becoming ingrained in their minds as a sort of turning point in our relationship. Does your mother ever reference it these days?

>If you think your parents wouldn't kick you out or disown you I believe getting this out there as soon and as cleanly, clearly as possible will yield the best result.
I'm mostly positive that I wouldn't get kicked out but the mental aspect is what is gnawing at me every day. I know that they will look at me a with a certain disdain and embarrassment even long after everything has transpired. It feels like I won't be the same person to them anymore, as if my image will change overnight. My personality is generally antithetical to both of my parents. They're the typical uncouth normalfags who pressure me to hang out with people my age and do sports et al. The fact that I'm content with staying on my computer for most of the day (this is with them thinking that I'm still attending college) seems so alien to them that they genuinely think there is something wrong with me. If they can't make a concession on something like my hobbies I struggle to imagine them miraculously mustering great deals of empathy to treat me with once I basically admit that I've been lying to them for years.

>Might as well come clean, in your case. Will it change anything?
Well it won't change much once I'm dead except to give them a possible explanation for my death but whilst I'm still alive it will cause great embarrassment and shame which will make life substantially harder to tread through. It also makes it more likely that they will keep a closer eye on me, which makes it harder to hang myself. I'm not sure if you're familiar with hanging but it necessitates around 20 minutes of direct pressure on the neck in order to completely kill the brain. Any less and it's possible to suffer major brain damage/remain paralyzed etc. (that is if someone "saves" you before you completely die). Add some time for preparation and the fear you feel at the moment and you need over 40 minutes at least. In my current situation my parents would find the idea of me killing myself so absurd that it makes everything safer for me. It also means that them finding the ligature could be explained with some plausible excuse.

>Yes an insane amount. I was making unnecessary distance between me and the only person that might really care about me for years at that point to hide the shame of my reality.
>Relief is not a strong enough word to describe it.
Interesting. As it stands, I rarely feel any guilt or fear about my situation these days. Maybe it's because I'm emotionally numb or because the thought of suicide quells any ills my mind may have but I certainly don't feel what you're describing. Perhaps it is because you were going at it for longer than me (I'm at about 1 and a half years at the time of writing this) but in the end it's a deeply personal thing as you've said before. There are of course some days when I feel this profound sadness and loneliness clenching my ribs but it usually goes away by the next day. Emotional numbness is a very volatile thing as I'm sure you can imagine.

>It was more important to me than anything for someone close to me to know that I didn't intentionally become what I was, that it wasn't out of spite or malice at least, that I made the best of the choices I thought I had…
Well that's something we absolutely diverge on. Back when I had my finals in high school my parents would ask me what my alternative was if I were to fail and I would always mutter something half-heartedly knowing that I would kill myself if the results weren't satisfactory enough. After the scores came back and my parents were proud of me (for once) I jokingly thought to myself that I had just bought myself 4 years before I have to kill myself. Even back in my technically "good" days I always knew that I was destined for suicide. I could never integrate into normalfag society. When the first year of college started I attended for a few days and then never set foot there again. I knew that what I was doing was wrong. I knew that it was quite possibly one of the worst choices I could have made at the time but I still chose it over conforming to society. That's probably what would tip my parents off. I have nothing to justify my actions with other than my sloth and cowardice.

>The rope is going to be there tomorrow and the burden you already carry from the imagined future pain isn't all that different from the pain of whatever comes from facing things head on.
In all honesty, I live quite comfortably even with all the pressure and paranoia. Daydreaming and escapism are surprisingly effective tools. Ever since I can remember myself as a little kid back in kindergarten I would daydream as much as possible. It's almost an immutable part of who I am. Every time I have an argument with my parents that breaks this sort of veil I've constructed around myself I can assure you that the pain is devastating. I can't imagine what it would feel like to have a fight with them about something as major as failing college if even small things like not having a social life make them really upset at me.

>Best case, you come clean, you slowly get closer to family as you can now present yourself fully, without deception. You embrace whatever lot you get, suffer through menial labor and use the newfound funds for small pleasures.
You know I wish it was just suffering at a menial job that I had to deal with. It would have probably been for the best if I never went to college to begin with and just got one of those after graduating high school… It's certainly a better alternative than what I'm doing right now.

>Perhaps find a hobby you enjoy, leading to connections and eventually, maybe you find a greater reason too. I picked up hobbies, joined communities, failed or gave up, left, fell back to old habits, picked new things again.
I already have a few hobbies but I'm terrible at all of them if it makes you feel better. As for communities I only really feel like I belong in anonymous BBSes like this one that I lurk on every day. Being a NEET is probably ideal for these sorts of things regardless.

>I get it. I've been through this pain, I've faced the problem and lucked out. Now in hindsight it might even feel like I'm downplaying the agony before it.
It's possible but I don't think you're preaching from an ivory tower regardless of that. Sure you managed to survive which makes your words lean more towards optimism but your advice is grounded enough to be helpful in the case that I decide to face the music.

>I didn't forget the desperation of my supposed "last summer" of my life, but I'm no longer there.
I've had a lot of "last x" but ever since then I've come to realize that suicide is the one who chooses you, not the other way around.

>Random text from a random loser.
Isn't that what Wizchan is all about?

I was gaslit by EVERYONE into thinking I was going to be extremely successful in life, I was told the only thing that matters is me shutting up and doing my school work. None of it mattered, the kids who failed classes and skipped school to do weed all became rich. It's literally all about how much of a normie people pleaser you can become, nothing matters if im a weird creepy male

>>306810
this.

>>306409
These are some interesting questions. I generally expect the worst from people in general. Most are probably worthless scum (myself included) that just waste the air they breathe. But I'm at least considerate and sometimes even friendly to strangers (mainly elderly people when they look like they need help) and I do expect a certain amount of basic consideration from others too. Which is why I get incredibly pissed off when I have to leave the house more often than not. I always see trash that people just threw into the fields where I live for example and it makes me seethe and imagine their brutal deaths at my hand every time.

As for friends, I have some from my old school days. A few are now certified hiki NEETs, others are a little more towards the normie end of the spectrum. I never really consider what I expect from them. I guess that they respect my time? That if we have an appointment to play a game or whatever they'll show up or tell me if they can't? But that then just kind of sounds like the basic sort of consideration you'd expect from regular people. Perhaps it's because even between my best friend and me, we never really disclose any deep personal things. So maybe there's an aspect of me just keeping others at a certain distance and that's why they still fall under the general umbrella of "people" vs "friend" in my calculations of expectation.

The same thing for my family. I'd like to think my relationship with my family is okay, we get along well enough that I never had to move out and so on. But if my mom told me out of the blue tomorrow that I needed to fuck off, I guess I'd be a little hurt and disoriented but then it would be like "I guess that's just how it is". They are my family, I want them to be healthy and happy and safe but at the same time I don't feel like we're bonded all that closely. Perhaps it's because I was a latchkey kid and my sister was a normie with a blooming social life while I slowly became a shut in.

Like you I consider myself a weak person. Sometimes I feel like a shade, the ghostly remnants of someone who has died and is just kind of drifting along. I stopped expecting things of myself after running into too many walls too many times and seeing that while hard work matters, luck does even more. Our cultural myths are all survivorship bias and rose tinted glasses. I no longer have it in me to try hard at anything but I guess it's okay because I have stopped wanting things too. But I know that it's not that unusual, as it mirrors many posts here and the hiki NEET among my friends is the same way. I think sometimes people just experience things or see too much or something and afterwards they simply can't put the pieces of a "normal" life back together. I'm rambling, apologies. But your post resonated with me.

>>306810
I don't wanna shit talk my mom too much since she did so much for me, but really dude same shit here.
Though I ended up being mentally not capable of making it to a degree anyways.
Are your parents successful?
Mine sure as fuck aint. One is a habitual unemployed drunk fuck (barely any contact anymore) and the other is a people pleasing anxiety ridden slave.
I don't mean to berate them either they turned out the way they did for their reasons too.

But who is giving this advice? My mom for example never went to college, worked as a clerk and then forced to a factory for better pay.
Been slaving away at a factory doing physical labor for 20 years now. How would she know anything?

The weed smoking kids you mention? Fuck their parents were entrepreneurs living in mansions.
I was one of the poorest kid in class because my mom wanted me to go to a "high end" high school.
I could have just gone to a vocational school and had a decent life instead of wasting it on trying to "make it"…
Hell I might have even had a better social life there since then most people would have been on my level and similar backgrounds…
Fuck…

What do wageslave parents teach you? To be a slave. All they know. Can't blame them, but still, damn.
i feel like most of the "advice" we were given were just daydreams of our parents too
Like my mom never got to go to college so it must have been the missing element.

>>306813
Thank you for sharing.

I don't think it's too much to want common courtesy and for others not to act like animals.
Living in a flat with poor people… basic humanity is not at all the default.
Trashing of public utilities and common use areas is the norm unfortunately. Noise and smoking with zero care as well.
>Most are probably worthless scum (myself included) that just waste the air they breathe.
Shows that you are aware… wish people shared a bit of such self-awareness.

On the friends part I'm glad you already explained how and what you consider a friend.
To me such shallow connections don't qualify and I struggle maintaining them as well since they hold little value in my eyes.
I know this sounds arrogant.
I'm aware this is not necessarily beneficial since for the wast majority of people such "friendships" are what they want and expect, nothing more.
I'm cordial to people in general, but I wouldn't go out of my way to keep such connections going.
I can see it working if you yourself prefer to keep them at arms length.

The family part as broken as it is I hold no grudges. Similar situation post-divorce at least. Was quite horrific prior. Sister turned out normal at least.
Good for her. I'm grateful I'm allowed to stick around, but I also wouldn't have any hard feelings if I were told to leave.

>I stopped expecting things of myself after running into too many walls too many times and seeing that while hard work matters, luck does even more.
This is probably the worst part. I understand this.
I know myself, yet for some reason every so often I get a spark within me that inspires some vague dissatisfaction that makes me dream up that "perhaps one day".
… only to fall back to my baseline upon careful re-examination of my reality.
I call these moments of fake desires. Like some part of me demands I become more normal and attain things I don't truly want or at least have no business wanting.
>simply can't put the pieces of a "normal" life back together.
I really wonder why I can't let go completely despite knowing this all too well. I can't completely surrender, admit I'm defeated by life. Even though I fully understand my situation, my limits or at least I'd like to think so.

>Sometimes I feel like a shade, the ghostly remnants of someone who has died and is just kind of drifting along.
Funny enough about 5 years ago, 5 or 6 years into NEETdom at the time before I had to get a job I started hallucinating more often and more vividly.
The figure was me, younger, in clothes I usually wore during summer.
I would see myself come in through my rooms door look at myself walk up to my desk and sit down "inside myself" as I was obviously already at the desk.
The entire series of actions feels like a sort of sick mockery yet the image shows no contempt.
Sometimes young me just stands there and stares.
I reckon I did that walk from the PC to the toilet/kitchen and then back a million times over so not shocking really. Perhaps for my mom and sister before she moved out already felt like a ghost haunting their home…

> I'm rambling, apologies.
I do it too. I love when people post longer texts. I do it because I struggle to coherently express myself, but still others usually share very thoughtful posts.
Love reading them since there is so little engagement on this site anymore.
Back in the days I recall threads filled with insanely long posts too spanning years. If one is offended by post lengths they can just skip reading.

Overall I consider your approach and thoughts on family and friendship to be very reasonable and level headed.
I tried re-evaluating my approach to friendship before as well as upon reading this. While I can safely conclude that the way I view such is abnormal I don't think I'll be changing.
Not out of stubbornness I just don't think I'm able and I'm fine with that.

>>306819
>Trashing of public utilities and common use areas is the norm unfortunately.
I encounter this whenever I have to go to the nearest larger town or city and it always makes me feel like living in a dying society. Which is probably accurate. But it just fills me with anger, disappointment, resentment and other things I cannot accurately describe. I guess even though people always find a way to disappoint you, no matter what you expect.

>To me such shallow connections don't qualify and I struggle maintaining them as well since they hold little value in my eyes.
I don't view them as shallow since we have spent a lot of time together during our youth and thus we know each other fairly well. I suppose gaming and shooting the ship in itself is the value. Company and shared history. All the little in-jokes and obscure references that build up over the course of years, decades. Though to be fair that only really applies to my best friend who became hiki NEET after dropping out of uni. With the others it does sometimes feel like consciously maneuvering a social landscape, which makes them feel more like "close strangers" at times. There were many times I wondered why I kept those connections up and my best guess is habit and a certain amount comfort (though fun too).

>Sister turned out normal at least.
I feel like succubi generally do better with these types of things. People are more likely to try and help them, whereas men are usually left to their own devices. More social support and what not. Or perhaps it's just that the normal distribution of traits in men is wider, meaning there are more socially divergent men than succubi, who are already more inclined to go with the social flow in general.

>I know myself, yet for some reason every so often I get a spark within me that inspires some vague dissatisfaction that makes me dream up that "perhaps one day".
Believe it or not I do get those as well. Perhaps it's because growing up I was always told I'd go do great things, that I was so gifted and talented. These kinds of hopeful episodes definitely became less intense and less frequent with age for me though. In my early 20s they were a constant, now as I'm almost 30 though there is more of a sense of having arrived at somewhere between peace and resignation. I guess it's only normal. The media we consume is full of characters we root for overcoming odds, struggling until they fulfill their arc. Of course we are bound to internalize some of this. If you feel that you have drifted off course in your life and only have a vague sense of things being somewhat wrong or unsatisfactory, imagining a world where you suddenly find purpose, a worthy hill to climb, a journey to go on is probably a very human coping mechanism. Human history must certainly be filled with people like that. Ordinary folk who had greater dreams for themselves but didn't have the opportunity (or simply the strength, will, whatever) to attempt to follow it. Normies would probably call this "a wasted life" but I think there is a quiet dignity in accepting your station and making the best of it.

Your story about the hallucinations is kind of funny and really fitting. Sometimes I wonder how my family feels about me being the way I am and I can't really come up with an answer.
Thanks for replying in such depth, it's really refreshing to have such lengthy interactions on imageboards these days, though perhaps it's because wizchan is the only one I use and it's near dead.