I have a bad feeling about this, there is no way this thread is not going to devolve into shitposting and role-playing
Been listening to a few thelema audiobooks lately, as well as learning more about the history around that time. Mostly because in the podcast about cults that I listen to a fuck ton of cult leaders rip off aspects from thelema ether in part or in whole. It comes up almost as often as some off-shoot of Christianity comes up.
So I figured it was high time for me to learn more and go beyond Aleister Crowley on the subject.
>It already begins
Yup, this is not going to go well.
Any chance you can cite reference material or use standardized versions of terms.
What you are trying to say doesn't really come across because you are using a redefined personal definition of nearly every word in every sentence, which makes it require guess work and assumption to arrive at any conclusion regarding meaning.
Not seeking to fight, just to understand your actual point rather than guess.
What is reality? One idea said it is concepts coming together as forms. But some forms are real and some are unreal. And some are in-between. What makes some things exist and some things not exist? Try to meditate on it. What I saw was the viewer which possesses no concepts at all. Therefore I call it silence, or void, or the fifth element Quintessence.
Circle = void. 0
Square = matter. 0 made manifest.
How is 0 made manifest? This is the key to magic. I am meditating on it. Possibly tied to perceiving. Must isolate the act of "being" and dissect it.
Ego is all concepts of the self, could be called the soul.
Matter is forms that are highly static compared to others. It's a spectrum between matter things and idea things.
Psycho-surgery is altering the ego, or psyche, or soul. All refer to the same thing.
Is this copy paste from a book or something?
storehouse consciousness, qualia, theory of perception/reality creation, philosophical zombie.>>50690
What he saying is that reality is made by the consciousness interpreting what it hears/sees/feels. To make something real, you must think it to be (reaffirm it), and doing so is an act that you must actively do (you can't reaffirm things passively, therefore trials must be taken to actively reinforce an idea). Ehen the vonsciousness that you hold and who you actually physically are intersect, you are in a specific reality (you aren't fantasizing and your mind is actually with you), then you'd better make sure you anchor your vonsciousness to your actual self to create an anchor, so your sense of vonsciousness doesn't get lost in your visualizations. Therefore the idea of ego death is kinda vontraptoductive, since you lose your anchor point to the real reality.
Visualization is in essence making things somewhat real based on the idea that you are able to feel what you imagine/visualize just as you would feel things your "real world" senses would, things like imaging with your eyes, but also things like emotions felt. Thus, with them being able to create such feelings, they would stand to be called partially real.
Magic eould be the next step, where things get a bit more realer as they would start to affect the "real world".
The idea that is the law of attraction is not so great, since the concept is not changing the core of a situation or a person, but is stuck on a conceptual idea level in the mind, and it confuses personal desire for the "essence" of something (desire to be helpful vs actually being helpful). Too much personality can seep into the process with the law of attraction.
Matter exists in the real world, but it is non manipulatable from zhe stage of the mind (in essence, just because you wish a hard object to be strong it will not be).
The idea would be to form thought into material/make things imagined or visualized real. (Whenever he thinks in terms of actual physical embodiment of magic or just using it as a way to describe it, not sure)
Dreams are irrevelant since the consciousness is not present actively during it. During luvid dreams however, consciousness IS present and thus the ability to actively change the self, personality, etc, is possible. The problem is that while actively lucid dreaming, the consciousness is cut from the real world and the physical. Astral projection may be circumvent this problem.
I'll try to translate again.
What he means is that "reality" as is could be intercahngable, considering that one could interpret given form as visualized. While some ideas may have been given "form", they still remain "not real" or "partially real" in the real reality. Given that idea, why is it that certain things that are properly given form are not real, versus things that are.
There is a 5th element as the concept of consciousness does not fit under the first four, and this exact element is the consciousness.
Consciousness is the void.
Material is either vonsciousness itself made manifest or alternatively, it is through the consciousness that we become aware and thus "create" material.
The key to magic lies in how our consciousness and how it "creates" the material world, most likely through the act of percieving. I must try to isolate and distill the feeling of being at it's most basic level to further learn of this process.
Ego is a collective of things that relate to our conacious selves, therefore it could potentially be the soul itself.
Matter is solid and static in contrary to ideas which are malliable. If that is the case, the idea to put things on a matter of spectrum.between the two ends would suffice to help categorize things.
"psycho surgery" is an act where one creates a deliberate change in one's own ego, self, psyche or soul, all of which are the same thing called differebt names.
Now that I'm done translating, these ideas of course are very rough. Personally, the idea that self or just the ego is the soul rings contrary to my own ideas. As you further disect yourself into smaller and smaller parts, you will naturally seperate even more stuff. Whenever that will include your idea of souls equal ego, I of course cannot tell. In any case, look into storagehouse consciousness. Once you experience the most peeled back state of existing, some things will probably be made much clearer to you (mostly about the relation of the layers of self that exists).
If I may, and you aren't the only one at fault here, but I feel like too many people focus on the i ternal, yet fail to properly establish their own parts. The idea that "I am just me" will not suffice if you are on a path to study internal reality. That would be like trying to drive and repair(by yourself) a vehicle that you don't even know the method of working. There's no real mechanic you can take yourself to for repairs, so I feel it imperative that otgers too realize how they work before they atart to dwelve too deep ibto themselves.
That and you are too focused on the inwardity of personal realities. If you didn't already, I'd recommend investigating the "why" of the static nature of Materia, and what mechanics does the external reality express over the internal. You will also probably find that helpful.
>your successes and failures with magic(k)
Until very recently I was stuck in a rut since last december and couldn't effect anything, even the simplest things I used to easily do and couldn't figure it out. This whole year was devoted to that puzzle and taught me about chakra blockages. It turns out I was suffering one, big time. I successfully identified it and its cause and literally immediately after resolving it my power returned in full. I was on quite a roll for almost a week this october, I even mostly healed the cavities in one of my really bad teeth. Then a series of traumatizing things happened and knocked me back off balance. This has all been a profound learning experience and demystifies very many experiences in the history of my magick. I just wish it didn't need to take so damn long. And I wish I weren't so sensitive to the bad things in this world. Going forward from this point will be a job of either insulating myself even more from reality (and the internet), or learning not to be so sensitive. It won't be easy.
Well soul can sometimes mean the center of a thing. In that case the soul is separate and equivalent to the fifth element consciousness. I think a big issue is many of these words have many different meanings.
But as to the nature of the center of consciousness, I see it as completely concept-less. Meaning that it even lacks the self-other duality. Of course this seems to imply a sort of monism but I can't say for sure if this is so due to the difficulty of interpreting the nature of something with no definition. But the moment a thing differentiates itself from other things in any way, it seems that it must have taken on a concept other than the Quintessence. The Quintessence thus being filtered through these concepts, "looking" through them so to speak; it's like if you drive a car you get empathy for the car and if you're a professional driver you may feel like you are the car eventually. It's another layer to your being, same thing as personality and unconscious factors I suppose. Problem is with the manipulation of the primal I-point, if you completely do away with the self what happens is you die. So yes it's important to know your self, but I think it's best to look at it from a dissociated viewpoint so as not to be distracted or misled by the various machinations of the self. For example when I look at myself from inside my self my mind actions tend to go on a deterministic loop and I get no info, but then if I remove the I from my self too much it just shuts down.
I am also curious as to how exactly the self is bound to the brain. How physical patterns relate to non physical things like personality.
Do you keep a journal/log?
It would have been a lot easier on yourself if you had such a basic tool.
Have you tried using chakras in your practice? Does it improve your efficacy at all?
I'm of the position that the concept of chakras work by abstracting a complex idea into a simple one, so that when the simple idea is manipulated you are in actuality working with the complex idea which is harder to grasp or effect in its unfiltered state with normal consciousness. Similar theory regarding sigils and rituals.
Memories are subjective and can be easily changed after the event.
Logs are static snapshots into a perticular event. Good ones relay information and data in objective detail.
It is one of the most fundimental and important tools of any magician in almost every kind of magickal practice. You are doing a great deal of harm and hardship in not having one no matter how good you think your memory is.
What's your method?
That has almost nothing to do with what is being talked about and isn't at all relevant.
With what you said about chakras I'd hypothesize that some sort of non-physical organ is used for manifestation. I wonder if you could override or fix the determining factors by finding this organ/chakra using passive visualization and powering it up or balancing it. Could be used for mundane emotional transmutation as well, I've had good success using chakra points for that; instigating a building pressure in my solar plexus to counteract anxiety and such. Works for hiccups too.
Also I think that the placebo effect is actually a primitive form of magic. It works even on infants according to how the medicine it's imitating should work, and is highly dependent on the physician's beliefs. This is why "double-blindness" is so important, the efficacy of placebos is greatly reduced if the doctor doesn't think that it's going to work.
You said you had proof and now you are picking fights and poisoning the well when someone then ask for the thing you said you have.
I have been nothing but civil in this thread while you have tried to sow discord.
If you don't have proof don't say you do.
I don't think you know what empirical evedence or proof is, of which you have nether.
Look up what both terms mean, then if you realize you don't have any proof or evedences then don't say you do.
If you do have such proof or empirical evedence then present it.
That is all there is to be said on the matter.
What guy is probably doing is creating thoughtforms which act to affect causal chains and bring desired results. Experiment regarding this is, conceptualize an idea thing and move consciousness into it, you should feel different. You can tell from this the nature of the thought. What is the difference between changing thoughts existing in the brain and thoughts existing in the external world? Both thought things are attached to real objects, should both be manipulatable. Key is finding the point of consciousness, knowing how to look through it. This is probably the purpose of no-mind meditation practices, so if the mind is shut down you can see where you're looking from.
>you can see how repeating a phrase or image in your head is unlikely to do that.
Yes this is key. I see lots on 'visualization', but the process is tricky to grasp. It's not like making a painting, look to your dreams for examples, those are essentially visualizations. Real life is too but we're so used to it the process is difficult to grasp. You're not 'making' an object you're 'seeing' an object, need to perceive the core being of the thing and this is not done through brute force mind-painting but subtle open-mind-seeing.
For changing reality, one needs to grasp the process of change itself. Most simple is moving the body, isolate the active change thing. Not a feeling, feeling is passive, results from the active. Feeling is being, what causes being, that's what you use.
I don't enjoy how, within the four elements chart (lower left-hand), the seasons list "Summer, Autimn, Spring, Winter". It should be, "Summer, Autumn, Winter, Spring". It suggests that Winter is Earth andSpring is Air. Simply not true, those should be switched.
As well, how does one contend with the non-euclidean imagery? Scholars discern the left and right side, yet supply the forward-facing Vitruvian Man, labeling the left and right as we see it, not as the Man experiences it.
If the Vitruvian Man were facing the direction as we are, observing, this would then make sense.
I heard about some people closing their eyes and touching the rowan tree to get the energy. However, it seems to be as effective as curing hemorrhoids with putting a cucumber to the anus.
The first part of your post is incomprehensible to me because you're using a lot of unknown terms and we probably mean different things by "thought". I'd be interested in an elaboration.
>It's not like making a painting, look to your dreams for examples, those are essentially visualizations.
"Visualization" is a bad word for it then, because it implies a flat image. The process which you're describing is akin to being "embodied" fully in a sensory experience with all of the perceptual details. Instead of "projecting" a certain image, it's really about "letting in", "perceiving" all the vivid details of a constructed internal experience in order to somehow construct new "higher-order knowledge" from low-level perceptual information. Effectively, even though you're not letting in any new "knowledge" from the world, you're still able reorganize existing structures by (de)composing higher-order "knowledge" into/from very basic, low-level perceptual "knowledge".
For instance, you might remember a situation in your mind in terms of basic sensory information and certain salient details in the environment. From this "knowledge", you can "perceive" new "knowledge" through an internal embodiment/enactment that's made possible by your initial memory of the situation. This happens a lot when people remember a situation and then acquire new interpretations and perspectives. I believe the key question here is what is "perception" really? It's not merely receiving stimuli from the world, it's a much more complex process of attaching various things to it, going from something completely neutral to a qualitative experience colored by our goals, values, ideas etc.
In that way, I could see how "visualization" might actually cause change, but it's important to understand that any change in relation to the mind can only happen in the form of "knowledge" (neurologically, in the form of memories). Of course, physical changes to the brain can also happen which might cause all kinds of neurological reorganization but we are talking about natural change and the brain's natural neuroplasticity, not lobotomies.
I fully acknowledge the power of such tools as mantras and "visualization" but they're very vague and blunt when you do not understand their effectiveness. Similarly, "meditation" can mean a million different things but people act like it doesn't matter how you do it and focus on posture or breathing instead of the infinite possible mental processes one could apply. That's why it's important to be very precise when describing these internal processes, creating "recipes" and sharing them with others so that they might study them and relay that experience back. Saying you're doing "visualization" describes a part of the experience but there is infinite possible ways this tool can be applied, hence the confusion of others and lack of ability to shit-test your own practice through them.
Is the purpose to improve the general heuristic?
Spontaneous creation of coziness negates the need for a quality heuristic.
Is the purpose to find the source of the heuristic?
Ouroboros searching for his head by eating his tail.
Is the purpose to gain supernatural powers?
Casting magic missile at the darkness.
Is the purpose to bolster the ego?
Clubbing yourself to death with giant chicken legs.
Is the purpose to pass the time?
More efficient to enter a coma.
Is the purpose to find the purpose?
Bring your fleshlight to illuminate the way.
Is the purpose?
hope you're prepared for lots of this type of bullshit.
The end result
Every thing that can be perceived in any way is real in a sense.
Perceiving is passive, that is a reception of information.
Being is active, that is a transmission of information.
All things that exist in reality both receive information (are affected) and transmit information (affect others). Reality is a matrix of information.
What separates the self from the other is information. Boundaries, affirmations and rejections of what constitutes the object in question. All information can manipulated due to its ability to receive transmissions from other information.
To visualize something is to perceive it. Since you can perceive it it's real, but it may not exist in the physical reality that you know because of its information attributes. This picture alone is impotent, but it is a vital step. Because the thing in question exists, it is actively asserting its existence; it is performing actions. So are 'you'.
So, what needs to be done is 'you' need to manipulate 'yourself' so that 'you' have some causal connection to the thing that is being perceived. Now yourself consists of a multitude of different forms; personalities, personas, desires, etc. I don't know how other people do it, but what I've done is found a form within myself that I have labeled my 'core self'. Actually I'm not even sure that it was originally a part of my self, for all I know I just discovered it and connected somehow. Anyway, through the nature of its being it is able to use its active information transmission to affect other parts of my self. This way, a connection can be established to the perception that is being visualized and the attributes of the object can be affected.
Interesting, that's pretty close to my views as well.
Would you describe your core as another aspect of yourself (just as say personality, feeling, etc) or do you mean it in more of a succint meaning, like the "experience of ecistence"? I myself lean towards the latter, but I am curious of how someone thinking similiarly feels.
I think that the most basic someone can be reduced to is "existence" as an inner shell upon which the outer reality (read the layer of information) is slowly molded and projecred onto by the many layers of filters that are in place (outer senses, inner senses, personalities, memories, etc). I think that the utmost "reality" or layer foes solely contain information only in it's purest form, but I also believe that the most internal one is not in direct contrast to this, rather it is a screen upon which these filters project upon.
Taking the filters away will also reduce the warping made by the interpretative nature of our existence. I do wonder if given the ability to completely remove one's filters would make one enter the realm of information itself as well.
Wizardly thread (unironically). Please proceed.
>>50774>Would you describe your core as another aspect of yourself (just as say personality, feeling, etc) or do you mean it in more of a succint meaning, like the "experience of ecistence"?
I would say that it is the part of my self that is highest on the causal chain I can get before exiting what is conceptualized as my self.
Every thing that exists needs to be actively perpetuated in order to exist. Thus, the common thread that feeds into the psychic objects that make up the self is the quintessential core. Existence is fed into filters, these filters receive impulses, as that is experience. The core itself can't really 'see' but it can 'be', that is it can inject its point of view into things which are passive to it.
David Myatt is another character you might be interested in but some of views are kind of lame now.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Will check him out.
Hmm, as far as I could boil it down to it's essentially what constitutes what is inside the barrier that you are. The "I am me" statement. It's the thing that makes you feel through your own senses and not others. Kind of a "first person-ness" of the existence, which defines your existence as an individual seperate from the enviroment (including other people not you). As far as I experimented with it, it is a part of the self that is the tabula rasa, and the rest of the internal and external mechanics are what creates a specific personalized reality for it to comprehend. As far as my idea of it goes, it's role is that of a viewer of the filtered reality.
In my idea the mechanics behind it actively perpetrating itself lays more in line with the chaos (existence) versus law (inevitable death/destruction, non existence).
Chaos in general is a self generating, just like how life (generally) is as well. In my head, it's similiar to a fire that continues to always spread towards new fuel to sustain itself. Just as everything in existence acts and is acted upon, I believe the fact of existence is the baseline towards establishing the why and how of the nature of this perpetuum. Of course, this is in general. If you were to single out a single existence, the law side will take over, as everything will be dead and/or reduced to dust in the end, but the general level, it's not so easily claimable. Many people are already dead, and many of us will be dead by the time those ahead of us will be theoretically born.
But I went on a tangent about my other beliefs. In any case, while I agree that anything in existence must actively enforce itself, my opinion differs on that I think that life exists unto itself/for it's own. That's probably the reason why I lean more towards the idea that this most base part of you disctint from any of the things that make up your human self (meaning senses, personality, etc).
I think finding out where the action of moving my arm originates is essential to understanding magic. Where and how do my actions originate, and up to where do I have an influence.
So I'm investigating that.
What method are you using to investigate right now?
>>50773>Perceiving is passive, that is a reception of information.
Everything I've read about perception tells me that this isn't the case. We do not passively receive stimuli. Firstly, we are very selective about it because of our limited cognitive capacity - the best case scenario of taking in the entirety of reality is impossible, therefore it's important to take in only what is "relevant". Secondly, information is in itself neutral, but through the process of perception we give quality to it i.e. subjective experience.
A person "transmitting" information to another person relies on the other person "attaching" the right quality i.e. "meaning" to it. A language is a set of verbal symbols we use to communicate with others, a shared subjective space of symbols used to refer to "things" in the world, an imperfect tool but gets the job done most of the time. You can see its limitation in this thread considering even though we are all speaking English, we do not have a proper shared subjective space so we're largely talking past each other. All of your words have meaning in English but they are referring to private internal events that I have no conception of.
>>50785>Unimpressed? Yeah well, I thought I made clear that it's just my method, not the whole of what's involved. There's a lot of stuff underlying it, where the real action is, that makes it effective.
Well, I'm listening, get into the actual details. It's like describing how to draw by saying to just move your pencil while it's touching the paper.
>Maybe you're into ceremonial magick and don't think that a simple way like mine can do anything? I don't know. I'm not sure what "essentially nothing" even means really……
I mean that it's vague and fairly cliche ("just think positively"). Describe the actual internal process.
>If I were just changing my psyche (tried that), then my magick would fall under simple explanation of the placebo effect,
Changing the psyche isn't only about changing beliefs. Those are fairly high-level cognitions that are an expression of a more fundamental internal structure. Like you've described, even though you had strong beliefs in your success, you were still unable to engage in proper action or only very ineffectively. You've conceptualized that as a "chakra block" but there's a lot more to the psyche than surface-level phenomena like thoughts or beliefs. A proper change in the internal structure would result in removing such internal conflict and even redirecting psychic energy in the preferred direction of your conscious goals.
A "placebo" occurs when a person perceives a positive cue (in terms of a goal) which results in a positive emotional valence which then the person takes as another positive cue resulting in a positive feedback loop. This state is temporary and volatile because it doesn't result in any actual change to the structure of the psyche, only a heightened affect as a result of the person perceiving a positive state of their goals. "Placebo" effects usually occur within drug tests or any situation where a person might perceive the cue of positive affect as a sign of their goals going positively i.e. "I feel good, therefore the drug is working" -> increased affect -> "I feel great, therefore the drug is working" -> etc.
The placebo falls apart the moment the person perceives a negative cue which breaks the feedback loop. In certain cases, a placebo could get you far but it's essentially gambling that a negative cue won't occur or that you'll be so zoned out that you don't perceive it. People are able to fire themselves up for a moment but as soon as they see any signs of failure, it breaks down. There's an exception for goals that have vague or abstract cues, where positive affect is your only information that your goal is doing well - in those cases a placebo would be beneficial since a negative cue is unlikely to occur.>>50789
Not him, but there's no such thing as proof in this case, because he's either talking about internal private experiences or metaphysical crap, none of which we have the proper tools to study or even describe. At best, you can judge it on personal experimentation, but even then you're "just doing it wrong" or "there's more to it".
>>50794>Firstly, we are very selective about it because of our limited cognitive capacity - the best case scenario of taking in the entirety of reality is impossible, therefore it's important to take in only what is "relevant". Secondly, information is in itself neutral, but through the process of perception we give quality to it i.e. subjective experience.
Both processes still require an input of some sort, primal information clay to work with and form into beliefs.
Something I've realized. Whenever I have successfully manifested my will, it has never been difficult to do. Not once. It's more like knowing for sure that the thing is happen, kind of feeling reality change. I must conclude that whenever I slip into pushing hard for manifestation, I am wasting energy.
When you close off those inputs, that's when you can truly see how much perception is an active process. People in a sensory deprivation tank report seeing all kinds of illusions, even when nothing is there, the mind still actively constructs images, sounds, sensations etc. Who knows how much of your perception is "reality" and how much it's constructed, ways your mind saves time and energy by filling in the blanks, how it colors your subjective experience based on your ideas, goals and previous experience. The mind is not a passive receiver, it's actively creating your experience of the world.
I'm of the opinion that the myriad of psychic forms that make up the mind each have the ability to passive receive and to actively transmit. Many transmit to other parts of the mind, some receive from external patterns.
>>50794>Not him, but there's no such thing as proof in this case
That has kind of been my point all the long.
That dude shouldn't say he has proof when he clearly doesn't.
But he is hyper defensive and egotistical so being direct about it isn't the way to go.
Please keep discussion about potential rule-breaking behavior in /meta/
Plain introspection while having that in mind.
If you lie down and consciously put the perception of your actions (how it feels to do something) in the same category as other perceptions (things you aren't doing), you can get some pretty neat effects. Sometimes it feels like I'm instantly transitioning into a dream state while doing this for some reason.
I wish you luck in your examinations and hope you keep us posted on your progress.
Very useful. I tried this and it's very easy to cause digestive organs to contract and such. Tried manipulating body heat, was more effective than usually but still felt a lot of resistance.
Coincidentally, right after trying out your technique I found a book on Zen Buddhism (Dropping Ashes on the Buddha) that deals a lot with the phenomenon of doing things and existing vs non existing.
Realization on thoughtforms.
That is, imaginary objects used to create change.
One, doesn't seem that the empty mind source of consciousness (source of being) can actually directly make changes to objects very effectively. What it can do is cause objects to act in ways that they are capable of acting. So the solution to this is to create objects with a purpose to make change in extant objects.
Big mistake: first instinct in making thoughtforms is to just imagine things really vividly. That doesn't work, or not consistently at least. What you need to do is assume the empty mind consciousness. How to do this is, you need to dissociate from your mind and body and personality until it feels that you are watching your mind and body and personality as an external viewer. From this point it's easy to make yourself do things you're normally able to do, but not things you're unable to do. It's easy to say change your mood or do tedious things easily, but nothing supernatural. To accomplish magic, you need to make a new thing to view and control. It's important that you don't slip into the point of view of yourself while doing this, that's a common mistake that often trips me up. Approach it so that the you that is viewing empathizes (becomes) just as much with the spell-form as the form that is your body and mind. Equate the feelings the spell is feeling with the feelings you feel in your everyday life. And then have this spell-form do its actions with you in control.
I'm currently using my body to experiment on since it's easy to verify if I'm successful. I'm not sure if you actually have to be empathizing with the thing the action is affecting in order to be successful. I'm guessing no.
So an example of how this works, if I'm cold and want to warm up, first I quiet my thoughts. Then I dissociate from my self. Then I move my point of view to an imaginary thing that represents what I want, so fire. Then from the fire's point of view I have it cover my body and start emitting heat. Makes me hot. But you need to perform this as the fire, not as your body. Trying to produce heat out of nowhere from your body's position won't work. From your body's point of view it should feel like this is happening on its own.
Both Zen and Taoism make more sense to me every day.
>And that anon still nitpicking
It has been over a week. Really need to learn to let things go, especially when you don't actually have a rational counter argument.
>needs to read a few books on logic. Grow up.
So picking fights that are long over, acting childish, and not making real arguments.
You are actively making this thread worse with your ignorant behavor. The one that needs to grow up is you.
The thing is you aren't discussing magic. You are going out of your way to argue, and you have actively antagonized anyone who doesn't play along with your obvious fabrications.
You also show contempt for everything other then your made up homebrew form of pretend magic.
It seems you just aren't mature enough to discus this topic with a level head, nor competent enough to engage with others on the subject without acting foolish.
Also no one has mentioned guns in this thread. I see no reason why you feel the need to try bring in outside drama from other threads exept in a ploy to bring drama into this thread.
Again, not conductive to conversation and more evidence that the problem is you and that you need to ether learn to behave yourself of leave.
I attempt to invoke various realities and observe the reaction that my body and mind has to it. The purpose of this is to note the correlation between various methods of subtle action and their effect so that it's easier to call on these action for practical purposes.
Example, last night I tried invoking abstracted potency. This caused a feeling like my neck and head were stretching out and body becoming lighter, as well as rapid hot flashes and a bright light in my mind.
This method seems to be effective training, I was able to cause a piece of paper to vibrate this morning by focusing on the mode of action I used previously. I did it for 5 segments and the vibration correlated exactly with my efforts so I am sure it wasn't just air or something. Things such as this are easier to do right after I wake up, I think because I am less attached to ideas about reality in that state so there's less inhibitions.
>I wasn't showing contempt for other magick
Why do you act like people can't read the thread and your earlier post in the thread?
>By your own recognition
Now you are putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.
You also seem to have a beef with thelema and have throughout the thread tried to pick a fight with anyone who mentioned any form of ceremonial or ritual magick. Something tells me you would probably have a fit about folk magic too.
magic don't real
But is the mind real?
Is your sense of self real?
Your memory real?
Is the word, the symbols that you type to form the word "real" even real?
What does real even mean?
As far as Placebo and magic, for some it is a legitimat path that they find quite effective in learning to master.
I personally think mastery of the placebo and nocebo effects are rather basic beginner stuff but for some it is all they apparently need.
For more info I would recommend this podcasthttps://www.farmcodegary.com/tag/placebo-magick-podcast/https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-placebo-magick-podcast/id1442755774
Apparently this particular magician's entire approach to the occult and magic is based around mastery of the placebo effect. Sometimes to great and consistent personal results.
The only person who ever calls me is my father and telemarketers. Whenever I hear my phone ring I assume it's my father. But when I look and it's a telemarketer, nine times out of ten my father will call me within ten minutes. I think that somehow my anticipation of his call signals him to call me. I read that something similar happened to Mark Twain, he always crossed letters when writing to his friend. So instead of sending the letter, he just kept it and waited for the inevitable letter that he 'signaled' for.
I've been able to replicate this somewhat on occasion by creating a strong sense of anticipation in myself for a phone call. I know when I'm going to be successful or not, it depends on how good I am in the moment at autohypnosis.
talking of Clemens and the supernatural, didn't he write of having seen his brothers' funeral years before it actually happened?
>You said it in the last attempted magic thread and countless other times here and there in the past three years. I know it's you because you're the thelema enthusiast who has been so dogged all this time about downplaying my metaphysics as being just the placebo effect.
Have no idea what you are talking about and think you have a major chip on your shoulder causing you to assume a great deal of things, thus making a ass of you and me (eww I sound like my dad).
The problem isn't some crimes of the past but instead your ego in the present.
>Why hasn't anyone pursued a scientific study of it all to identify the mechanisms
Scientific study works to isolate as many variables as they can to find something universally applicable and replicable. This methodology for this particular topic is very slow and takes many MANY studies to even come close to fully understanding the phenomena. That said progress is being made in understanding the placebo and nocebo effect. New studies are published every year.
That said because the nature of the placebo effect is subjective in nature it is far easier on a individual level of someone who practices self mental manipulation to master the effect on themselves, or even better understand how it may effect others.
> cut out the faith-based trickery commonly involved
The pomp and cercumstance is really strongly linked to why such things work. Eternal factors have significant effects. This can be seen everywhere from folk traditions all the way to scientific studies where they found that certain color and shaped sugar pills consistently have repeatable effects in test groups.
>and just have the power to do what you want on command
That is more of self hypnosis territory.
>Or is that considered too far out or something
It is still being studied and is only partially understood on a scientific level. Even the more ancint wisdom of traditional magical working understands through effects and only really guesses in the dark on the underlying mechanisms at play. At least from what I have learned of the really old stuff.
It is actually pretty fertile ground for exploration and experimentation.
I personally find the placebo effect fascinating even if you strongly poo poo it for whatever reason. It is both a tool that can be used right now and a mystery to be solved later. A insight into the complex and powerful abilities of the mind.
Really should have proof read that long post.
Then publish a book or research paper depending upon the angle you are coming from.
This is the information age after all. Where information wants to be free and spread across the world.
>>50943>an essay on magic>is over 100 pages
I think me and the author have a different understanding of what the word essay means, lol.
>there may also be tie-ins with quantum physics
That stuff gives me a head ache whenever I get into it, and most people who mention it in regards to this kind of stuff have never cracked a theoretical physics book. I blame Deepak Chopra for baiting newage types to quantum physics terms without even himself knowing what the fuck he was talking about.
Sorry, for the derail, just get flash backs to 3 page long equations when someone mentions quantum physics. It is pretty nightmarish to actually work with when it comes to the legit math, and nothing about it scales up right.
As for the content of your actual post, I would agree you are probably not ready quite yet to write/publish a book. Both your ideas and most importantly your writing style when it comes to explaining your ideas need further development to be completely understandable to someone that isn't yourself. It is a starting point though. One that requires quite a bit of polish, but you may be on to something.
I would never write a book. And if my post falls short somehow, I don't care. I'm not trying to be anyone's magick sherpa.
Experimentation with changing perspective. I see luminous auras when the right pov is obtained. First was clear, then only blue, now I'm getting some variation, gold, yellow, sharp white. If perception can change with pov maybe action potential can change as well. Successful treatment: hiccups, doldrums, bad digestion. Brute force results in crazed delirium, principled attempts fail; result of attachment to previous reality. Attempt must be purely intuitive. Perspective of sleep is good subject analysis but relying on analysis is folly, as mentioned.
Assertion that hallucination are as legitimate as mundane perception is helpful. Hypothesis of "subtle body" may have originated from alien set of potential actions possessed by supermundane perspectives. "Un"conscious = extrinsic but closely related perspectives connected by causality. Hypothesis is that all perspectives must possess some potency in order to exist in and of themselves, but attempting to connect actions to mundane perspective inevitably causes failure. Full shift is equivalent to death; transcendental illumination = moving the self to a wider plane of causality?
What is the most basic unit of thought?
Depends on context and means of measurement.
Unit implies that you are measuring something, so what are you using to do the measurements and how does it work?
Answer that question and you can probably answer your question as well.
The most basic unit of thought is the most basic unit of thought.
interestingly, i was following the exact same line of thoughts as you have in both this post and the next ones
I've come to that think the talking part of my brain doesn't have an influence over much at all, and that's the part that wants to influence things and can set goals and directions. So even if some part of my consciousness can influence things outside of my body, the talking brain won't recognize it. It's extremely confusing.
Read though it and studied it for a bit.
It is little better then casting bones and shells or reading entrails.
At first impression, I thought it's nonsense, for how can the "I" have any goal or direction if it is separate from the "me".
But after meditating for half an hour with it in mind, it seems to have potential of being an effective way of thinking.
Logically I still don't get it though, the "I" seems to be just a sensation of will arising from the "me", it's all together within the soup of perception.
The way I understand it is, the "I" is simply the object higher on the chain of causality that plays the active role in the body of the Self, which consists of active and passive players. The "I" is not purely active in and of itself, but it's treated as purely active when one is looking at the Self because it is what is supplying the energy for the Me-object's reality generation. Probably if you look at the psychology of a person who gets all of their active energy from an external source such as say their culture, their culture is treated as the "I" for them, because it working as the primary director. Of course the when looking at the culture it isn't actually purely active, but it's acting as purely active in the Self. The same would be true, of the I component of the Self as well. A lot of mystic frameworks talk about getting in contact with the "higher self"; I think what this process basically is is changing the definition of Self from what it is now to the thing that is currently working as the purely active agent. Of course once that happens the same division will arise in what is currently only perceptible as masculine, and then on and on until you reach the end of the causal chain which is the primal cause without an effect which is called God by some.
Looking at it through a different frame; think of a puppet. The puppet itself can be thought of as the passive mind. The hand that pulls the strings can be thought of as the active. The puppet plays the role of actually performing actions, while the hand, through the strings, plays the role of supplying energy to the puppet in a certain way. Without the puppet the hand's energy would be wasted, and without the hand the puppet would just lie there. From the puppet's perspective the hand is only an active agent, but from the hand's perspective it is both an active agent (towards the puppet) and a passive agent (receiving impulses from the person that it's attached to). The same is true of the higher "I" to the lower "Me".
Many people are drawn to solipsism because it seems like their own existence is the only thing that they can confirm, but I don't think that this is the case. What existence is, really, is a perspective. Your existence is a certain perspective that contains within it certain limitations. The changing of perspective is the changing of what is treated as the active and passive in the reality-creating act of perception. To the most macrocosmic perspective, all
realities are equally valid. But from the perspective of the realities themselves, only they are valid. It's all about perspective you see.
Seems like shifting from an illusion to a higher illusion to me. I mean I'll do it, but still.
All illusion are reality when looked at from the correct perspective. And all realities are illusory when looked at from the correct perspective.
Which brings us back to the original problem. If everything is subject to a perspective change, then what can I use to change perspective?
People do it every day. Like how you can shift your perspective to individual body parts. Try 'becoming' your foot, experiment with what it feels like. Same thing with getting absorbed in fiction, or even using a tool or device. you're changing perspective to a reality that was nonexistent for your previous self. Start by examining what exactly is piloting you and try to get absorbed in it, ignoring your lower perceptions.
The practical use of this is if you shift awareness to the active component that maintains what is you you'll be able to modify you. This is the basic idea of invocation. Even more impressive phenomena is possible as you move up the chain of active-passive objects.
A big roadblock is the fear of death that keeps people from letting go of their personality and becoming something else. When you start experimenting with this you may notice that when you start getting successful with major perspective shifts you'll have an inclination to shift back to your lower self in a panic. You'll need to work through this.
"To have sth thy never had, you must do sth you never did"
I know, I've been doing the practice. My point is going up the chain feels like playing the game rather than transcending out, since I know the chain to be infinite.
I strongly suspect that there's nothing else to do other than playing the game though, so I'll do it.>>51175
Any meaning behind the weird abbreviation of "something"?
I had tried reading this before and I dismissed it as silly, but giving it another look since you posted it and it makes a whole ton of sense.
So thank you for posting it.
"I think therefore I am".
The most basic is existing, having an ego, in other words. Just 'being'. Mathematically it's more of a geometrical issue.
>see light>define light>quality of light
>a one>a zero>the two together
>the pain>the pleasure>the will
I'm not into the occult though and am a militant agnostic. So ignore this comment because it has no basis in magic that I am aware of.
Image is Buddhist inner eye, also, before it makes you wonder.
can this help you getting money or gibs or something? or a means to do so like making you able to write a best seller?
>>51317>can this help you getting money
Not directly, but maybe in a very indirect way. Effort would be better spent learning how to file the paperwork and game the system. >or a means to do so like making you able to write a best seller
It can definitely aid in improving your writing skills and marketing the books. You'll still need to put work into it though. No guarantee of a best seller.
I read it few years ago. It is a alright book and I sometimes recommenced it to people just starting out from a certain perspective.
Am very into reading about occultism, especially cults that involve it, it's strangely a very interesting topic that has rarely been touched on by individuals who are scared to monger around the deeper sides of the nutshack.. It's quite a interesting thing as well.
What have you read lately?
Favorite cult to read about so far?
I dunno. I personally don't really have a prpblem with the darker/blacker aspect of magic as per the usual classification Things like getting graveyard dirt, sacreficing animals, calling upon the dead spirits, outsider entities or demons, etc
but the idea of a cults disinterests me for 2 reasons in particular.
First, a cult operates akin to a religion rather than a magician approach. It has enforced dogma to which all must adhere. It's the polar opposite of the magician's way which "promises" freedom of theorem, form and will upon individualistic pursuits. Unless you are the leader of one in which case you make the rules, but even then it doesn't fix the rigidity of it's system. It doesn't acknowledge the duality of the human nature.
The second is more of a personal thing, but I believe there is but one throne of ascension in everyone's reality, and each of us must reach that with effort of the our individual self. It makes sense that a cult's leader is attempting to do so through his cult. Joining a cult will not lead one to sit upon the throne. It must ve done by one's own self, with one's own effort for one's own self.
Kind of related, but also kind of not, this is also why I think something which a lot of others forget or don't see reason to, which would be the importance of the qualia of insight one gains. Ever notice how everyone has different ideals regarding things, but boiled down, most point to the same general phenomena just through a different lense? A lot of people tend to try to "objectivize" their views and systems/theorem to the outer, uncontrollable aspect of reality instead of keeping it internal, meaning that if someone asks for help from demons, then he is more inclined to believe that the same events happening to others could only be from the same source? It's most often "this is what works" instead of "this is what works for me
". The seperation of inner and outer layers doesn't happen. To me, it may be demons, to you it may be angels, for another it may be the work of "simulation manipulation", etc. All of these are, in my opinion, quite correct.
Objectivizing isn't an issue if it's done internally only. In fact, it can help you, but many don't seperate it from projecting it upon others. This causes beliefs to become rooted instead of transcient, causing them to become a pillar by which everything must
abide by, rather than a temporary respise before the inevitable change in personality/perspectove/etc.
This is why experiencing it for yourself and coming to your own understanding is important. Theorem is all. Everything else is but a potential guide to learn the bits of truth from to make your own. Reality, or rather existence is a lie, but just like any good lie, there's small truths mixed into it. This is why it's also said that a good teacher occasionally teaches half truths and lies. To seperate those who just listen and regurgitate without understanding from those who try to understand. Use your knowledge as a tool not as a treasury.
I recently obtained a deck of tarot cards just to see if they're worth using or not. Surprisingly, every reading I've done so far has been accurate or at least meaningful for me. I'll continue experimenting to see the full extent of what sort of situations these divinations can be applied to.
Which deck did you get and what spread are you using for readings?
Rider-Waite. Usually I just go for three-card but sometimes I make something up if it's complicated. I think up the meanings for the positions myself beforehand; most of the spreads I've found online are seem to focus on things that are irrelevent to what I want to know.
I wouldn't really recommend making up spreads when just starting out as it makes consistency way harder then it needs to be, but whatever.
When you feel up to it, it would probably be wise to learn and practice celtic cross spread. It is a solid generalized spread that works for everything, even if it is a bit hard to learn in the beginning and even harder to master. All the more reason to start early with it to get that practice in.
Wish you luck in your studies.
Have you get any benefit by practicing this? What kind?
What are some practical techniques i can experiment with?
For the advanced occultism practicers: does long hair affects your perception/powers/etc? I was always curious about this. Sages and wizards are always depicted with long hair
Hair length doesn't have any effect.
Many great and powerful occultist are Bald or have short hair just as there are many with long hair.
Hair is trivial. Do with it what you will and don't let it distract from your practices.
Hair acktually helps you track animals in the wilderness
Thanks wizzo, i have saved this
Does anyone disagree that you need to work on 'universal feeling' before you can do magic and such? non-duality i mean
Where did you hear that?
The most important thing is to stop feeding the current reality. Nirvana is a method of doing this but there are other ways.
What are the other ways?
Nirvana isnt a method its a state of being, transcendence
In abstract it's a simple meditative practice wherein a real object is looked at from a different perspective so that it appears unreal; thus the consciousness point that is observing is emancipated from contributing energy to the substantiation of the object in question. Those who are not adept in autohypnosis often rely on methods such as altering blood flow to the brain, engaging in various degrees of atrocity, or rapid sensory intake. This alone is not sufficient to induce movement in the magical muscle, but it does open up the possibility. Prolonged use can abjurate weak dependent thoughtforms, which is useful for personality shaping.
Can I predict prices with divination (stocks, forex, etc)?
How do I into clairovoyance?
Read the document I posted and apply that to your primary vision.
I have never had luck with it, though divination has always been a weak point of mine.
Too use to ignoring my gut and using my analytical part of my head. Makes divination hard because it is the total opposite. Turn off that critical part of the mind and focus on what your gut is telling you.
I just can't do it with any consistency, nor do I have much practice with it.
If you do figure it out then let us know though.
These are publications on remote viewing (a.k.a clairvoyance) in which the specifically used this power to make investments:http://www.jackhouck.com/arv.shtmlhttp://www.remote-viewing.com/ARVpaper.pdf>Of these, 60% of the trades were profitable, amounting to approximately $146,587.30.http://psiphen.colorado.edu/Pubs/Smith14.pdf>In aggregate, the participants described the correct images, successfully predicting the outcome of the DJIA in seven out of seven>attempts (binomial probability test, p < .01). Investments in stock options>were made based on these predictions, resulting in a significant financial gain.https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3d70/1e2ed3ef2ba467313372958da866c6010627.pdfhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=HqiU5DgGRPs>>51853
Thanks for the book.>>51861
I will, friend. I hope we can make it.
so….does anyone know if there's an consensus occult explanation out there for synchronicities? I had a breakthrough earlier this month, I seriously think I finally figured out the reason behind synchronicities
I've been suffering synchronicities round the clock all my life and I think I finally figured out what's happening, and after testing it so far I think it has serious importance for magick in general
>>51881>an consensus>in the occult
Also perceiving lots of "synchronicities" is usually a sign of certain mental illnesses rather then anything to do with the occult.
Things to do with the occult are usually controlled and related directly to intent.
The fact that you are experiencing these feelings "round the clock" all your life strongly suggest this is a mental thing and not a magick thing.
What is your age?
Do you have a history of mental illness?
Does mental illness run in your family?
Have you seen a shrink in the last few years?
the fucking jew above is one of the reasons I hesitate to post here anymore
Stay gone then fag.
The usual explanation is that, as the Will is integrated into conscious experience, its manifestations on reality are made more apparent due to familiarity with its nature.
What's your take on it?
forget it, I'm not going to stand for that piece of shit gaslighting and calling me names, I reported him hours ago and it's still there
maybe next year
how to get good at autohypnosis?
Consistent practice and a good understanding of the process.
Not even what gaslighting means.
If you are going to bring up tumblr bullshit you should at least use it right.
What's the process, any comfy pdfs?
Is yugioh black magic?
I do not have any pdfs on my hdd, sorry.
There is plenty of info out there though. I am sure you can find something to get started with a quick search. >>51938
I don't know any that approach magic from a purely psychological perspective, most authors want to try and put up some sort of external framework for how it works. Here's a book that has some good techniques in it. Try them out and develop your own viewpoint.
Personally I'd skip the stuff about radionics, but it couldn't hurt to try it out if you're interested and have the time.
Ok thanks ill put it in my archives
What is the advised method of journalling for an apprentice magician?
Can you give any more examples of this type of thing?
Not just mental gymnastics
Thank wiz, this has helped me immeasurably
Any other sources of individuals practicing these things?
Goal is to shut up barking dog. Must induce calmness. Conjure up form of calmness, let it naturally take shape from abstract to concrete. Focus on the sensation of being connected to the emotion and will it to take form. Transfer consciousness to the form and strengthen the sensations of it while forgetting your normal self. Connect to dog using the sound as channel. Launch into it and merge with the dog's pysche, cutting the spell off from you.
I use this to force normalfags to avoid me whenever I go out. It's necessary because often when doing energy work you gain a radiation that attracts them to you like moths, they just keep bumping into you around corners and such.
Desired attributes are invisibility and repulsion. The no-mind state is similar to invisibility, get into that and then think of the pushing away that a magnet does to the same pole, or maybe sharp pain-pins that poke at the minds of people who are coming at you. As always the forced imaging is just the preliminary step, you must then acquaint yourself with the essence of the things being use the image as a channel. Once you are more the thought than your ego, force the thought-you into reality, your own body or mind can be used as an anchor.
You get the general idea. I've also successfully performed telekinesis and weather manipulation a few times using this basic framework.
just summon milton hershey
but wizon magick isn't real and it's literally all about shitposting and LARPing
Ok makes sense
>Invisibility and Repulsion
None of this made sense to me and i read it twice
I'd like to have that power to repel the norms that try and steal my energy, but i don't seem to be able to do it without harming and angering myself into a voilent state
I have tried energy shields but have felt no difference
The biggest block fro me with all of this stuff is having no experiential changes to verify any of this is true and it angers me even more like i'm just larping or something, but this needs to work
If it's not working you need to practice more. I feel a definite change when I shift my wavelength to invisibility-repulsion, like I've stepped into a post-apocalyptic wasteland or something. >harming and angering myself
focus more on the void attribute than the repulsion attribute then. Also make sure to dissociate from your prior psyche before trying to shift it, otherwise your will is just going to go back and forth between the two states of being that you're enforcing.>The biggest block fro me with all of this stuff is having no experiential changes to verify any of this is true
Start small using goals that you view as being at least someone possible until your preconceptions change.
Thanks, i'm reading it now
Can you share how the techniques have helped you? What have been the experiential results?
Does anyone have a reliable method for contacting spirit guides?
And i am ACTUALLY hearing voices or receiving inner guidance through intuition and stuff, not this channelling hoohaah i keep hearing about
First of all, "vital energy" (I just call it aetheric) accumulation gives immediate sensory feedback. If you're working on your health you can feel the organs shift and change their functioning for example. The practice is extremely efficacious for fixing those minor afflictions that apparently arise without any cause, like rashes, stomach aches and such. Also personally when I'm doing it correctly my vision changes so that I'm able to see auras around things, which is neat. Haven't developed that facet of it yet but I have been able to go from seeing just clear outlines to colors of white and blue when achieving the correct focus.
It's also very potent for what is commonly and broadly called "manifestation", which is just sending an intention out and letting fate bring it forth as an appearant coincidence. Just a few days ago I was experimenting with the 'tire bursting' energy pulse that he mentions while connecting it to the idea of money, and immediately after I finished I got a call from a family member saying that they won around $500 in a casino.
It's also very good for changing your mood and how people perceive you. I had pretty bad depression before I started but now I can alter my emotions pretty easily so long as my will is behind it. The elemental invocations are tied to this as well, but they all use the same basic psychic/pneumatic muscle in my experience.
Divination tools are good for translating subtle feelings into concrete images.
If you don't want to do that, try active imagination.https://www.carl-jung.net/active_imagination.html
If you can levitate, but you have to wagecuck for a living, you have failed as a mage. The point of magic and occultism is to gain power and wealth in this world. How many of you are millionaires due to magic? Or how many here can control or kill someone with their magic? Serious questions.
No. Not unless it did something incredible like take turns or something of the sort.
Today I was feeling depressed and unmotivated. Tried expanding my naval chakra as much as possible, caused my stomach to make loud gurgling noises and made me burp a lot and also almost immediately got rid of my depression. Pretty neat.
Does just using the focus and bowl change the efficacy any?
Since I prefer to do stuff at night I need a light source and prefer candles because they set the mood really well. However since I am not a fan of candle magic if I do a ritual during the day I don't use them.
The incense burner is used quite heavily in my workings/rituals so it is more essential then the bowl and even the focus tool.
In fact I can use just the incense burner whenever I want to fire off simple spells and sigils as well as purify and charge objects.
I mean I know other methods of doing all that stuff but using the burner is what I prefer.
Has anyone here tried Goetia? If so how did it go? Is it really dangerous?
Very good, my book list is full now and i think these next couple month i have free to start practicing some magic sincerely
I wish there was a place we could all practise together and multiply our joint efforts of magic
Like a real wizard school
I'm reading Initiation to the Hermetics, Holotropic Mind and one other book on Consciousness at the same time as well as two books on mindful concentration
It's a lot..
I only dabbled with it but the ceremonial requirements make working with it really unfriendly to solo practitioners unless they are super experienced.
I am not super experienced so I left most of it alone as far as actually doing.
A fun activity that you can do to improve your energy moving ability is to stare a a solid-colored wall until you see a sort of static overlaying it, and then using your finger draw shapes in the static and see how long you can get the shapes to stay. It helps to feel the presence of the lines in addition to seeing them.
If you ever get frustrated in your practice it means that you need to dissociate from your body and ego and operate as an outsider observer, like your self is a robot and you're the programmer. Mind and flesh operate on a much more deterministic valence than spirit, magic is the use of spirit to influence that which is downstream to it.
Totally disagree and that sounds like a good way to regress or even do self harm.
One should sharpen the mind when practicing the occult not dull it to the point of dissociation.
If faced with a roadblock in practice the answer is further study as well as strengthening one's fundamentals through hands on practice.
Or in other words read/learn more and get out there and practice. Practice to the point where the simple stuff is as easy to you and natural to you as breathing.
Proper, controlled dissociation is not dulling. It a movement of consciousness outside of the bounds of restricting factors like personality, emotion, and space. When the consciousness resides in the gross it is passive to the subtle; movement of the consciousness out of the self and into the spirit results in the ability to work with the threads of causality which go into perpetuation of phenomenon. I have practiced this and the results are felt immediately when operating on the psyche or the psychosomatic systems.
Can you explain how this is any different from the mental dullness that occurs with extreme tiredness?
What are examples where it has increased your magic?
Awareness can move among the many forms that make up the self, both the psyche and body. Forms higher up the causal chain can also be accessed by the awareness, anything that one perceives, directly or indirectly. Because by affecting you a thing becomes part of you. In order to do this awareness must be dissociated from the ego complex and associated with the higher form which includes the ego complex as a constituent. Attaining this state lets one make changes to their own self fairly easily. Larger, externalized changes may be affected, they are more complicated and require a bit of practice to get the hang of.
God damn new ager non-sense of half reading a bunch of stuff about eastern mysticism and then trying to mix every little bit that was half heard and misremembered together without even a tiny understanding of even a single tradition touched on.
It is the same tier as that bullshit I sat through in Arizona where some white people tried to fuse Native American folklore with crystal healing and wicca bullshit all while repeating how ancient and authentic they were.
That book is garbage and would put a beginner in a worst place then if they knew nothing at all.
If it works it works.
truth and practicality are two different things.
Truth is best reached through personal experience, as the document posted recommends.
Truth isn't subjective and doesn't give a fuck about your personal experience. It ether is true or it isn't and that book isn't.
And what makes you think that secondhand personal experience is any more valid than information given to you from your very own senses?
What makes you think that was my argument?
What makes you think that I would even dignify such a blatant strawman with a real answer?
16mins of my life i am never getting back
FYI fringebay is apparently back up but it's just an archive nowhttp://fringebay.com/
some useful threads here and there
Its a shame fringe seems to have died off.
Nice to see an archive though.
/fringe/ is actually back up and active on 8kun.
Hello Op and everyone. I am relatively new to Western Esotericism but I have an elementary grasp on some of the basics of it and some of its histories. Where should I start and how should I go through with learning more about Kabbalah, Hermeticism, Theosophy, Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, and the Occult or others that I have missed? Do any of you apply this knowledge or practices in your daily life? Does it produce any effects or results? Also what are your thoughts on Lovecraft stories? I always associate them with the occult but I guess that could be just the horror imagery he uses in his stories. >>53493>>53492>>53464https://8kun.top/fringe/library.html
Here is a resource pointing to various books and sites.
has anyone made eye floaters go away? a few days ago I noticed a particularly large eye floater appeared in my vision and that's when I had enough, there were already so many that they were annoying, so I commanded them to start disappearing and did that every day, and in the past four days most of them have disappeared including the new big one, my eyesight is practically clear now
anyone else tried this?
Circles of Power by John Michael Greer is good for Golden Dawn type stuffhttp://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=C91BFE17A1A1830329EE9149F83765D1
Personally I prefer Chaos Magic homebrew-type approaches, here's a good introduction to this type of method:http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=5BD8EF1B5A1E55ABB655A705E0975737
Austin Spare's kiaism helps with this approach:https://hermetic.com/spare/pleasure
If you're really interested in thaumaturgy and doing things that people call impossible, I recommend Initiation into Hermetics combined with the techniques of Robert Bruce's energy work. From this you can build your own functional method of interacting with the astral and etheric bodies that overlay physicality. A very good mediation that I couldn't find in any books about this is to try and expand your conscious awareness as much as possible and feel the energies of your universe moving, and observe how this relates to the physical manifestation of reality that is occurring at the moment. Try to focus on as much as possible at once, regularly doing this will quickly expand your subtle senses and make it easier to do magic.
>Also what are your thoughts on Lovecraft stories? I always associate them with the occult but I guess that could be just the horror imagery he uses in his stories.
Everything that can be conceptualized is true in some reality. Falsity arises only from perspective, it is assertion that a certain reality does not fully intersect with another reality. Adepts can shift realities at will, so lies do not exist for them.
Personally I like to use fiction as a map for potential avenues of growth. I've never met a dead end using this attitude so far.
Thanks for the suggestions anon. I always appreciate a solid response. Could you tell me a bit more about your experiences in esoteric practices and how it impacted your life?
>Personally I like to use fiction as a map for potential avenues of growth. I've never met a dead end using this attitude so far.
Really? That's very interesting. Another esoteric type fiction I like is the album Crack the Skye by Mastadon. The songs and album art are filled with occultic themes and motifs. Could you please tell me some of your experiences with using fiction as a map?
Sorry for the questions, but I am just curious of all this.
Can you explain those paintings one-by-one please?
Does anyone here know what happens after death to the soul and spirit of a person who has committed suicide on the physical plane?
>>53738>Does anyone here know what happens after death
No. And anyone claiming to know is lying to you.
well we know this much at least, that it isn't the stupid "u go to hell" christian thing
Esoteric practice has given meaning to my existence. Before I started with this my worldview was that of a standard public-education-produced materialist. That life was horrible, it basically trains you to accept that you are powerless in this life and the best you can do is work for a niche where you can survive until you die. It seems that an anti-life worldview is logically inevitable from this perspective for anyone who refuses to become part of a normalfag egregore.
I think that probably the first 6 months of my practice I was still in the skeptical "just testing to see if it works" phase. I started with the exercises Initiation into Hermetics, which was very slow going at first, but eventually I found that I was able to reliably change my emotional patterns and get "out of my head", which was huge because it let me escape from the cycle of depression and suicidal moods that I had previously accepted I would have until I died. I then started to do less regimented energy work and servitor creation practices along with more serious visualization practice, found I could affect various autonomous bodily functions this way and also noticeably speed up healing and cure small chronic afflictions that used to bother me. I think I stopped doubting after I was able to use thoughtforms to influence the weather and how my family members treated me.
I've mostly been just experimenting with various methods of thaumaturgy for the past couple years and then moving on to something else once I get results. I'm beginning to try and force myself to stay with a single goal until I reach truly exceptional and replicable results with it, instead of wanting to try everything. Most recently I've been working on anchoring servitors to physical objects and sigils in order to increase their permanence and potential for growth. Nothing but good results so far, it helped that I started with a sigil for stimulating magical growth which led to a series of epiphanies that have aided me greatly in working with astral and etheric forms.
materialism is the truth, coper.
Not him but materialism is the ultimate cope to be honest
Why would an incredibly harsh worldview be a cope?
No one knows for certain is the answer. It could be punishment for some or it could paradise. It could something entirely different. At the end of the day one knows for certain. >>53737
The paintings are album art from the album Crack the Skye by Mastadon. The first image shows a diviner(Rasputin) bring in a spirit from the aether(areal realm, immaterium or whatever word you'd like to use) into his body as a vessel. The next image has to do with astral projection. In the album a crippled man uses astral travel to explore the word he otherwise would not be able to see, however as he travels in space he flies too close to the sun and his soul tether is broken from his body. He sucked into a wormhole he drifts through immaterial realm. I am not sure what the blue multifaced man with the third eye means, I think it is just more occult like imagery. You should look at some of the album art yourself and listen to the album. It is a good one.>>53741
Wow anon! That is quite a story. It is interesting to hear how it has positively affected your life. If I am being honest with you, I am merely curious as to what and how or why these things work. If anything I am scared that they are a bad and harmful thing yet I am interested and perplexed by them. Thank you for sharing your story with me, dude. I wish you the best of luck.
Because of the mistaken assumption that the harshness lends legitimacy.
Now that /fringe/ is back up the thread is kind of superfluous.
That was the best board on 8ch. /a/ was decent too
8/x/ and /fringe/ are dead in the water. 4/x/ is 90% retard garbage
Here is my personal method for condensing energy into forms if anyone is interested…
The easiest way to start is by forming a ball in your naval; ball because it's the easiest shape to hold in your mind and naval because the autonomic functions of the intestines seem to respond quickly to etheric movement which lets you know that you're actually doing something. Also some people think that there's a sort of etheric battery in the naval area.
1. Feel and visualize the form in your belly
2. Focus on making the feeling and visual you're holding as intense as possible
3. Eventually you're going to feel like you hit a wall and you can't make it any more intense. When this happens, shrink it down in size while keeping the same amount of 'reality' in the feeling. Despite the size being smaller the intensity of the feeling that the form is generating should stay the same
4. Now, while keeping the small condensed orb, imagine a bigger orb like the one you started out with superimposed over the condensed one. This should feel like an entirely new form, try not to expand the extant orb to fill the shape, keep it small.
5. Intensify the new orb like you did the first one
6. Condense it down into the same size as your first orb. This will make your condensed form feel more real even though it felt like you couldn't push it any more earlier.
Keep repeating this until something happens. You'll probably eventually create a large physical shifting in your digestive system Fair warning, the first time I tried this it gave me diarrhea
Try not to tense your muscles while doing this, the action that you are performing is mental, not physical.
You can experiment with adding intent to the energy that you're condensing in order to create various effects in yourself as the subtle energy condenses into gross reality. You can also try forming the orb in other parts of your body, for example over a wound that you want to heal or in a symbolic place like the throat to improve your expressive ability.
After becoming adept at this you can also create thoughtforms outside of your body to do some very neat things, but to do this effectively you need to cultivate your ability to 'feel' the exterior world like you feel your own personal existence.
When you guys talk about visualizing something in your body, do you do it in first person/detail or third person? I mean you imagine the part of he body where that happens or imagine yourself viewed as an spectator with the feature (like the energy ball) included?
That's a doubt I always had
What Beginner books did you start with? I'm currently reading "Modern Magick: Eleven Lessons in the High Magickal Arts" by Donald Micheal Kraig, and it's very informative. Do you guys know any Beginner books that are more on the practical side?
If you spend some time feeling the corresponding part of your body the visual should arise of its own accord. For me its a sort of plane which represents the internal working of the body part.
John Kreiter's books, Create a Servitor and Magnum Opus are good to start.
Initiation into Hermetics by Franz Bardon, the vital energy and elemental meditations to be specific.
Energy Work by Robert Bruce
Neville Goddard is also good
All of these are almost pure meditation, if you want something about rituals and props I recommend Hands-on Chaos Magic by Andrieh Vitimus.
All these are available on libgen.
>>54214> you can also create thoughtforms outside of your body to do some very neat things
Alter other peoples' mood, alter the feeling of a location, alter weather patterns, alter societal trends, ward away specific events, attract specific events, etc.
I tried all of that orb programming bullshitery and it got me nothing more than feeling extremely retarded sitting there with my arms stretched out
That's why you should start with altering the workings of your own body before you start trying to influence the etheric mechanics of the external world.
Okay, I was just able to call rain to my location within 30 minutes when the forecast called for 0%.
Scratch the part here >>54214
about "outside of your body". The key to this is dissolving the self/other dichotomy.
The way I did it was as follows:
1. Attain a complete as possible state of detachment/dissociation from what is happening
2. Imagine a symbol of the desired result. I used the Agilma sigil from the Simon Necronomicon, made of storm clouds with lightning and rain coming off from it.
Your detachment should make it so that the form persists in your mind without you having to consciously force it
3. Feel the form of the sigil doing something. Could be emitting energy, could be moving in a pattern, could be you packing energy into it. Whatever feels natural.
And of course try not to place importance on it generating your desired result. Dissolving the self/other dichotomy helps with this.
>>54251>I was just able to call rain to my location within 30 minutes
so you were able to look outside, woah so spooky.
Ok I'll be sharing stuff that worked for me. Although this also depends on what are you looking for
>success rate: 8/10
I used the classic chaos magic sigil style. You can look it up the detailed process but in few steps it is:
>write your desire
>always in positive, for example if you want to stop something do not use the negative phrase but the positive one ("I will" but not "I will not")
>delete vocals, delete repeated letters
>make sigil by drawing it
>activate it by fapping and looking at it in the orgasm moment or by inflicting pain, etc. It must be an altered state of mind
I think visualization during the fap session might be a personal thing but here's how I did it, since I can't fap watching an abstract object, it feels awkward for me
I have some sort of waifu I've fapped a lot. I have a very vivid image of her I can visualize when fapping, I think she's some sort of tulpa at this point since I can "call her" and interact with her in my mind
I draw the sigil in photoshop and shop it in a nude pic of her as a tramp stamp over her ass and have it in my phone
I'll fap and visualize having sex with her, at first touching and she whispering me the sigil desire increasing the speed like
then I'd visualize the sigil, and try to "see" on it the letters that form it
continue like this for a while then visualize the sigil in her womb and "impregnating her"
at the orgasm moment, without forcing it (that is, it must happen naturally) I'll open my eyes and watch the pic with the sigil on her ass, fixing on it when cumming
with time my "visualization" got more detailed, such as the place where the "ritual" happens, other "waifus" being present around us and masturbating themselves giving energy to my ritual, etc
Then as soon as you finish you must immediately think about other thing, forget instantly about the sigil and destroy/delete it. Laughing helps a lot to distract yourself, I think Crowley says so. I can do this now all mentally without the phone but tbh I don't do sigils since at least two years, also I don't want to use the fap method again. I should practice again with other methods like burning the sigil
But I can confirm it's a very useful method
because lazy people don't have the discipline for actual meditation so they resort to inefficient theater that incidentally produces a relative pittance of energy which sometimes produces a noticeable effect which is good enough for them.
Can someone explain something to me or at least give advice on doing this specific thing?>World immersion through visual landscapes
Sometime i get this weird feeling around the back of my head and a heated feeling in my chest that feels like i am connecting with another world.
Whenever i get this feeling, i really want to go outside in the deep woods or something or find a way to enter into this slightly heighten state of being, but to be honest i cant even explain what it is i am feeling, but i know that the 'feeling' can be expanded by thinking about a natural place at dusk or nighttime and floating around the landscape in my head.
What i am looking for is any youtube videos or such (even a short story maybe) that can help these thoughts develop and somehow help increase my ability to connect with nature even thought i am at home, thanks magicwizzies
Wrong. don't try to bend the spoon, that's impossible. only realize the truth.
THERE IS NO COLD.
i will now proceed to blow your minds, gentlemen…….. there is no spoon!
Hello /x/. How are your healing crystals doing?
what are holotropes?
I don't know, you'd have to ask holowiz, though he appears sporadically, when there is great need for his teachings and attached pdf
Is this real?
I always wondered why magic has never been caught on film, do you have anymore examples like this?
maybe because it doesn't exist
I just seen this guy use fire bending before my eyes, what more proof do you need??
Best thing to do is try it yourself.
Spend some time practicing Qi Gong or something similar first though, it's a lot easier. I recommend this >>51798
Mental stance is very important as well. Approaching it with the intention and expectation that it's going to work. This is one of the biggest obstacles in my experience.
here's another one
If you want some scientific studies you should look into parapsychology. Here's a good intro book regarding that and folk magic as wellhttp://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=DF364CD139BE77F099AE85652B955DFC
Thanks, good video, i don't really need the science, just to see it on video with my own eyes
How to do this? Can you post a video manual?
>>54692>Is this real?
What dude is doing, no.
Not even a little. Very easy to see through slight of hand tricks that any two bit party magician could pull off.
Qi Gong in general when used for what it was actually made for rather then party tricks, yes it is real.
>>54692> Is this real?
of course not
What do you know about it hmm??
Why is this guy acting so skeptical? What gives him the right to think he understands the entire breathe of reality and human capability?
Can anyone recommend me something to read before bed to connect me better with the higher spirits while i sleep?
Something that will get my imagination going, not some dry technical work, like robert bruce's, but something more whimsical, like paulo coelho but with spells and invocations
Do you have anymore of these superhuman episodes you can post?
The vast majority aren't on topic of the thread and can easily found on your own.
What is Kiryo? Like a brief summary
Basically using ki or vital energy to heal or influence others.
What's the meaning of this??
Had some good first steps in learning telekinesis today. The method I am using is creating a thoughform with the intent of being non-permeable to matter imbued, and using will to supply the force for pushing. I was able to pretty reliable move a tin foil psi wheel with a thoughtform in the shape of my hand that was mimicking my actual hand movements. Have to practice on making the non-permeable intent stronger so it doesn't slice through my fingers. After this I tried a basic ball. Had trouble at first, started working a lot better once I made sure that sensory input, the feeling from the foil, was being transmitted to me. I am having trouble maintaining both the form's connection to the physical psi wheel and the intent+will to push at the same time, right now I establish the connection to the physical and then I switch my intention to the pushing intention, which causes it to move. But sustaining this is tricky. Will need to practice more, but I have the basic method of action down I think.
my base chakra has become really powerful in the past couple weeks
The heat from your hands is the thing that usually causes psi wheels to move. Other things that tend to cause it to move is any sort of air flow whatsoever.
Not some sort of psionic force.
Here is a few tips on how to set up better experiments using psi wheels so you don't get false positives that lead you to incorrect conclusions. They’re touchy objects and are best when used in a controlled setting. That means a room with no fans or drafts. Participants should not wear magnetic devices or lean too close to the PsiWheel Clothing that can produce a breeze should not be worn and hair should be secured as it produces a breeze as well. Using the device on one’s own, a person can mistake a breeze or other movement as telekinetic. The PsiWheel is very, very delicate in design and function and just about anything can cause it to move from wind to temperature, vibration. A careful controlled environment is a must to prevent mistakes and fraud.
I did not use my hands at all in the event referenced in that post, I simply gazed at the wheel while refining my intent and will in the thoughtform.
I've since had some success with pushing, knocking upright pieces of paper over. This requires a lot more will as you need a sudden, intense force rather than a weak sustained one. Creating a strong desire for success helps with refining intent. When I'm successful with this I can strongly feel the energy leaving me right before the object moves.
I was even able to move a square object across the floor a bit, which would have been completely impossible as just a fluke of air movement. Plus I was around 5 feet away from the object when I did it. After this my desire to pursue the subject petered off, I think it was mainly a way for me to prove 100% to myself that this stuff is real and erase any lingering doubts in my mind.
for those that believe in this 'law of manifestation' thing, how does it work?
I am a bit skeptical of it but I want to try something and am willing to throw all that skepticism I have. So how does it work, do I just 'think' of achieving the thing I want, or do I need to do more, do I need to some 'dopamine fast' (not literal fasting, but abstaining from all forms of pleasure like music, games, videos), etc for it to work???
Also can you guys explain it in simple terms (and dont say it ebonics as some joke to mock me)
I also heard the way it works is that you have to completely believe that the thing you want to happen has happened, for example, if you want a donut, you must 100% believe you have the donut right now in your hand for it to happen? That true or you have to do other stuff
90% of the process is not checking if it's coming true, or if it's part of your body say, not even looking at it or touching it, a watched pot never boils is true in magic
I've tried thinking of a donut, I was trying my hardest to believe I already have the donut and not thought about it, only believing I had it every few hours or so. I did not get any donut (even when I was in a scenario where I could've been given one), did I do it wrong or something?
Don't try. Trying means you don't have it. Just relax into the feeling. There should be no effort.
I'm sorry, but I do not get what you mean by 'relaxing' all my thoughts are tried. Do you mean day-dreaming these "wishes"? If that's the case then I had many daydreams about things before and nothing ever came out of them
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There should be absolutely no difference between the feeling you have when you're meditating and the feeling you have when you actually get the thing. Trying to attain the desired state is a difference. Feeling the desired state in your head instead of in reality is a difference.